Whistleblowing at Workplace | BlackBeltBarrister

#Whistleblowing at the workplace is an automatically unfair reason for dismissal under the Employment Rights Act 1996. But what if there is another reason hiding it? That is what the Supreme Court had to consider in the case of Royal Mail Group Ltd (Respondent) v Jhuti (Appellant) [2019] UKSC 55
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[@Barbarapape]

This is an important case for anyone who feels strongly enough about bad practices that are ignored by the employer. In my experience, you take a big risk of loosing your job if you decide to report wrong doing. Supervisors are nearly always backed up by management who will use any excuse to terminate your employment. Sadly today there are far too many employers that refuse to accept trade unions, without them, employers do whatever they like, with little regard to any employment laws.

[@fatbikemontage2931]

Whilst I can agree that some employers are as you describe, I think it is wrong to generalise too widely. In my experience, most employers stick to the rules, and large employers have HR lawyers, that by default recommend settling cases rather than having them heard in court. For the employer there is potential damage to reputation, as well as high risk on costs. What this has led to in some cases is employees disputing even justified dismissals. The law is correctly balanced in favour of the individual employee over the employer, but there are bad employees as well as bad employers. Whistleblowing is a difficult thing for the law to get involved in. If the Whistleblowing is about breaking the law, this is different than if the Whistleblowing is just about not liking something the employer is doing. Also Health and Safety concerns are a big area for Whistleblowing, and employees should be protected. But I have seen cases where an employee has created a false H&S concern, on the belief that it would protect them from a valid dismissal. So care is needed. In my experience. Union’s are good on H&S issues for employees, but very poor on other aspects. A company refusing to accept a Union is partly a competitive advantage to them. Unions failing to work with management and unrealistic demands, ended up prematurely closing some industries, Steel and Shipbuilding come to mind. And Coal was more about the Unions political views than care for their members in my opinion. What might be better is the system in Germany, and some other countries, of Workers Councils, which in my experience are less confrontational and help employees and employers.

[@Barbarapape]

@@fatbikemontage2931 The unions were originally formed to force the bad employers to treat workers fairly and improve working conditions and wages. Sadly like most good things in life the demands for more wages etc were unsustainable, the working man became as greedy as the employers. I am fully aware of why the unions became too demanding, my father fought tooth and nail to improve conditions for his fellow workers to the point that he had two heart attacks, the last one was nearly fatal. Yet the only person from the company that came to visit him was the general manager, he told me to try and convince my father to go and see him when he felt well enough, he gave him a new job in the training school. Not one of his fellow workers came to see him in hospital, so much for calling them brothers. Regarding bad employers, i am working for one on the minimum wage doing a skilled job in an unpleasant working enviroment. My father would be devastated if he was still here. There are still far too many bad employers out there, i think that the unions may make a comeback, then history will repeat itself.

[@liamholcroft7212]

I lost my job on the waltzers recently... sued my boss for funfair dissmissal

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

😂

[@simonblaxall1008]

Having worked in the care sector, some employers now insist upon both existing and new employees signing that they will not whistleblow to the Care Quality Commission or they will face instant dismissal on the grounds of gross misconduct for contravening the agreement that they are now signing. Having also witnessed how internal whistleblowing is frequently ignored, there are practices that are ongoing that are dangerous to service users and staff alike, some even potentially fatal. Just one more reason that I’ve now left the care sector.

[@simonblaxall1008]

I doubt that it’s legal, but maybe we’ll hear this one as a reply. Nobody put it to the test in fear of their jobs as care workers are on zero-hour contracts and it’s all too easy to find yourself with zero hours work.

[@gypsygem9395]

In my charity, which operates care homes, day centres and supports independent living, we are encouraged to whistleblow if we deem something is wrong. Companies that threaten staff need the whistle blowing on them at the outset. I would never take a job with a company like that and would report them as soon as they ask me to sign any such thing. Just walking away without reporting them isn't going to get them to change their practices

[@Vuyccbvuj]

What do you mean fatal?

[@cpuuk]

My experience is that if you Whistleblow and you save the company money, i.e. stop an embezzlement, they will love you. Any other reason you will be booted out the door.

[@Arcticnick]

I think I am too honest. I have no ability to filter my dislike of unfair treatment.

[@alancrane4693]

Hate for Thatcher's capitalism?

[@mrmegachonks3581]

Fascinating, I think employment law seems mundane but is actually very interesting. Hearing more about this type of thing would be very satisfying. Most employers, in my experience, quite literally get away with this type of thing everyday.

[@jaycearoo]

💯💥👍

[@alancrane4693]

Thatcher Britain

[@craigmorgan6812]

Brilliant, thanks Daniel. This is exactly my situation with the respondent/employer 'inventing' a reason for dismissal. Looks like I won't have to go to the supreme court

[@gypsygem9395]

Good luck!

[@stevenneill6605]

Amazing that it had to go all that way to the Supreme courts. Why didn't the first tribunal spot it?. Just goes to show the courts will initially side with big companies, ie Royal Mail. Poor lady had all that hassle and stress when the first tribunal should of seen the underlying issue. But what do I know.

[@fr0d0scious]

I don't think anyone stands a chance against large employers.

[@liamholcroft7212]

that's why we need to band together when we want to get stuff done.

[@tirsup]

Firstly to say a huge thank you for sharing your knowledge of the law. Your delivery of your subject matter is delivered in such an accessible way. I am a LIP in a 7 day employment tribunal case in November 2021 so your videos are invaluable to me. Secondly to congratulate Ms Jhuti. Taking her case to the Supreme Court was a mammoth task and she has paved an easier road for those workers who are discrimimated against. I have only just discovered your channel so Ilook forward to learning more from your videos

[@gypsygem9395]

Thank you for this, BBB. It's good to know the little person wins sometimes. It's taken me a while but I'm subscribing now!

[@dennisnash7188]

As always your guidance and interpretation really helps us commoners see beyond the big words and legal jargon. Thank you. Maybe you could look at the subject of constructive dismissal. Where people have been pressured into resigning from their job. Again thank you for your time.

[@gypsygem9395]

That would be a great follow up, because that can be something that happens following whistleblowing.

[@suer1945]

I'm older aged viewer .. so pleased u making these .. I can see the difference in the laws since I was young .... I remember my friend reporting her boss for sexual harassment to her company and the police and.. she got told basically we dont believe u he got moved out but that took a promotion to do ...oh how things have changed .. love the channel

[@craigthompson792]

Thankyou so much for this. I am taking m ex employer to tribunal as LIP based that I was unfairly dismissed for raising serious safety concerns, including reporting of asbestos and a poisonous gas leak, which my employer dismissed My employer in turn dismissed me claiming that I was dishonest around not immediately reporting a 10p size dent in a works vehicle, which I had largely removed with my thumb (they deemed it that I had attempted to cover this up. I worked for a major public transport provider, and am keen to see that this gets a fair hearing. Many thanks.

[@cpuuk]

So, begs the question, what did the Supreme Court see in evidence that Court and Appeal Court did not?

[@Arcticnick]

Great video. I should probably not now get myself a job so I can be unfairly dismissed and sue the company.

[@KarrierBag]

Haha Get a job, whatever next?

[@ianl1052]

Get a job at Amazon. Plenty of whistle-blowing opportunities there. 🤔😉🤣

[@anthonywhyteakathedorsetan1573]

I whistleblowed to a receptionints during grief and now I’m being disapliery and being pushed out and my manager is one of the complainments

[@mbak7801]

My policy has always been to follow three steps. 1. Distance. Make certain you cannot be blamed or accused of anything. 2. Evidence. Get just enough evidence to prove you could not have been involved. 3. Leave. Find another job. I have left a job because of some very blatant, very high value corruption. One person tried to blow the whistle but did so to a senior manager also involved in the scam, They got sacked. Luckily that is all that happened as the amounts of money involved was very substantial indeed.

[@danc407]

Fantastic Video incredibly useful.

[@StephenBoothUK]

As a union rep I’ve dealt with a few whistle blowing cases. Based on that I’d recommend that anyone considering whistleblowing first make sure they are a member of a union and get their union rep to obtain a copy of their employer’s whistleblowing procedure and forward it to them. Also document everything, and I mean everything, somewhere that you can access without access to work equipment and sites. That might be by providing copies to your union rep to avoid risk of breaches of GDPR or other such regulations or fiduciary responsibilities. Imagine you were escorted off site, not allowed to return to your desk and any items you took home with you (e.g. cost, keys, bag &c) were first checked by a manager to make sure there was no company information (I’ve only seen this happen once, the person was on suspension for 22 months pending disciplinary processes, because we’d kept copies of all information not only did they keep their job but a number of managers were dismissed), could you still effectively fight the case? When you have a copy of the whistleblowing procedure follow it to the letter, to the letter. Continue to document everything, not just related to the case but everything. If they come after you for performance then you need to be able to demonstrate that your performance is good, if they come after you for conduct then you need to demonstrate that your conduct was exemplary &c. Also, consider becoming a union rep yourself. Usually you just need to be a member in good standing and be nominated by members in your area. This is cynical, but, it adds another automatically unfair reason for dismissal, plus I’ve yet to see a workplace that couldn’t use more union reps to spread the load.

[@UnknownUser-by4le]

I whistleblew as a student social worker, it made my time so difficult

[@arricammarques1955]

Whistleblowing in an non-unionized job is risky without legal advocate.

[@Barbarapape]

I agree, where i work i am the only one in a trade union, and have found their help and advice invaluable on a number of occasions. You take a big risk whistleblowing whilst working in a company where line supervisors are always backed up by management. Once a suprvisor takes a dislike to you, you are in trouble with no where to turn to for justice without a trade union. They can afford barristers if you have a genuine case.

[@rsmickeymooproductions4877]

Who appointed the independent manager? Surely, this carries limited weight, as there is a vested interest. Miss Vickers had no interest in looking for underline reasons.

[@davidadams421]

In a previous employment we called this "managing out" an individual. We would create a 'Performance Improvement Plan', which the employee would almost certainly fail to achieve, thus providing the evidence for 'poor performance' dismissal and all under the guise of helping the employee improve their performance. A wolf in sheep's clothing, as it were. This was a common practice. I no longer work there ... _edit: corrected typo._

[@davedawson9851]

Eyup then. When honesty and truth are hostage to such complexity of interpretation we are surely all at risk of the tightening of the noose whether from one end of the rope or the other. Sithi after, Dave.

[@Andy-Against-The-World]

Honesty is important especially with regards to safety and ethical issue. But a bad employer is a bad employer and they may then try to force you out.

[@EyeSpyAudit]

Thanks for featuring my question 👍👍

[@Vuyccbvuj]

Recruitment agency’s are involved in games after you leave the job where you blow the whistle at. Then even put you in positions to trip you up with people waiting for you pretending to be a member of staff etc. the list of trucks is endless.

[@Cornz38]

I have, but i did it through an email anonymity service. Then sat back and let the press do the rest.

[@PUBLICSECTORJOBSWORTHS]

Whistle-blowers get persecuted in this country and solicitors/barristers let it happen.

[@Solidsnake0501]

I have a case against a company at the moment. The case hinges on ‘worker’ status (freelance instructor) which makes it a much harder and longer process.

[@fatbikemontage2931]

In my experience, a freelance instructor could be a defacto employee, if they aren’t permitted to work for other clients (locked into a sole arrangement) and/or are provided with substantial tools or materials. Also the duration of the contract status is relevant. The HMRC rules on what constitutes a contractor are also useful additional evidence.

[@eagle50043]

I was dismissed 2 years ago, and still have a ET to go to next year, for raising grievances against managers/HR etc. The company refused to follow their own disciplinary policy and instead dismissed me using SOSR. The reasons for the grievances were things such as actively being obstructive towards me getting a Reasonable Adjustment, breaching company policies in actions against me, and Data breaches against me. Are these type of grievances considered whistleblowing ?

[@davefrancisjarrett3563]

thank you, v. informative. stay well!

[@NymphieJP]

I want to know about neighbours trespassing on your land.

[@amandabriggs1210]

Thankyou,

[@andrewwilson3663]

Great channel, well explained. Here's one for a potential shorty. There are increasing reports of people tampering with EV Chargepoints resulting in the charging being interrupted. I guess this can only get worse. Might this be an offence under the Theft Act in diverting electricity?

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

Thanks for watching! Interesting suggestion, thanks

[@fatbikemontage2931]

Would a claim that they are depriving a business of lawful income, be more useful? Over and above the criminal damage part.

[@NicholasWoodley]

Very interesting as always

[@devorah935]

If it concerns a breach of someone's human rights then yes

[@alancrane4693]

Tip of the iceberg. Not only in employment also in housing. Governments companies landlords ex prime minister's.

[@thedyslexicauditor]

Can my boss watch me from his/hers home with his family... And my boss tells his/her's family watch when he or she is in work with us..

[@clivewilliams1406]

What happens if the employee has signed a non-disclosure agreement and then subsequently finds a good reason to disclose pertinent facts, possibly unsafe practices or as in the case of Ms Djuti illegal offers to clients?

[@siriusmagus2492]

would YOU whistle blow on corrupt practices within the courts ??? or you rather like promotion and easy life..???

[@stevenneill6605]

A good question. From my experience most large companies (I've ever worked for) have been corrupt and cheating as hell. Just no one's had the balls to do it.

[@siriusmagus2492]

@@stevenneill6605 from me hearing about prosecuting barristers who prosecute a drug dealer just after getting their supplies dropped off outside the courts... etc. etc.

[@ianl1052]

#question In relation to this video, what would happen if the employee was required to sign a NDA and turned whistle-blower?

[@freedomofspeach3129]

Can you do a vid on say companies that use facial recognition without displaying the correct signage plus the law on stalking from gang stalkers also what about is I think the mod police have installed spying apps on my phone as I was arrested they took my phone for an hour and I know for a fact they did something

[@24694104]

I got sacked for blowing the whistle at work. Apparently its frowned upon in a library!😁

[@BlackBeltBarrister]

🤣

[@Crown-zn7iq]

My genuine claim was sabotaged and my compensation money was given to some one else by employer, it is simple.Instead of finding my money they use dirty techniques to trap me.I want them to settle this quietly but they are finding this solution in streets.And they keep doing this ,in future every body will know this.what kind of people they are why they don't come to right path.they themselves damaged their reputation and because of them everybody know this .I will go some other place because here in Pakistan too many dual national who are helping them.

[@tonystrange7224]

Extremely interesting this one. I'll bet Miss Vickers was not an happy person once she found out the real reason behind the fabricated performance dismissal. Do we know what happened to the line manager, dismissed I hope.

[@harveyquinn5494]

Probably not. I whistleblew and was forced out care sector. Been harassed and stalked since by the managers and staff I whistleblew. Subject access request and the company had destroyed my complaints. No record of whistle blowing.

[@alancrane4693]

Probably got promoted while whistle blower life turned to💩. How's that for justice

[@harveyquinn5494]

@@alancrane4693 that's what happened to me. They are still at it.

[@KarrierBag]

Another educational video, thankyou #BlackBeltBarrister

[@Arcticnick]

I thought you were off for a bike ride on the towpath, to ´wind people up´?

[@KarrierBag]

@@Arcticnick I gotta finish my beer first 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@KarrierBag]

@@Arcticnick oh not a bike ride, I only have one wheel 🤣🤣

[@thewizzard3150]

In employment law is it true that you have to be employed for at least 8 weeks before you can be classified as an employee rather than just a worker?

[@fatbikemontage2931]

No, there is no minimum period. However, a new employee could be on a contractual probation period. 3 or 6 months is common. In that case the employer could simply state the probation period failed, and there is a lower expectation of evidence. But care is needed as a claim of unfair dismissal could still be valid.

[@thewizzard3150]

@@fatbikemontage2931 that is an agreed employee. I refer to someone who was brought in without a written contract?

[@devorah935]

@@thewizzard3150 I think it's a years

[@fatbikemontage2931]

@@thewizzard3150If someone was employed without a written contract, that puts the employee in the position of first having to prove they were an employee, if they succeed, then the employer could be under legal action for a wrongful dismissal, in the same way as if there were a written contract. Where it gets more complicated is where the “employer” claims the “employee” is in fact a contractor. This was the essence of the Pimlico Plumbers case, where the claimant was a contractor, asked for flexible hours (due to health reasons) the “Employer” declined, and he had to prove he was actually an employee, and once he proved this, he then went on to claim he was unfairly treated by his flexible working request being declined. A lot of “contractors”are in a legal grey area. Especially if they work only for one client, and the client supplies a lot of the equipment. In the Pimlico Plumbers case, it was the van. And if the contractor is not free to work for other clients, then this adds weight to the fact they are an employee.

[@fatbikemontage2931]

@@devorah935 In the case of length of service, this is relevant where dismissal is for reasons of redundancy. But normal (automatic) unfair dismissal starts immediately. I think if you are made redundant within 2 years of starting as an employee, you don’t have to be paid compensation, though many companies do pay something. In practice employers could do frequent redundancy clearouts, to try and prevent longer than 2 years service. But this level of churn isn’t desirable in most cases. And redundancy has to be fair and reasonable, and justified.

[@user-wv9mk1wn1t]

whistleblowers are needed , as long as there is evidence why not.

[@cocosprung360]

Hello, this is off topic but I hope you can help. My employer wants me to perform inspection for the oil and gas industry. The standard that my employer wants me to become certified in accordance with is ASNT SNT-TC-1A which is employer based certification. The certification is conducted by the employer, and is not valid if I leave the organisation. My employer wants to foot the bill for training and make me sign an agreement stating that I will work for the company for a period of 5 years and liquidate the cost. However the certification is only valid for 3 years. There are 2 issues; 1. Training and certification is done by the employer and is only valid while working for the employer. Employees are not given a cost breakdown of the training (that's if a cost is incurred to the Company) 2. I have to work for the employer for 5 years to liquidate a certification only valid for 3. Can you please give me advice? Is this fair?

[@lordrod7328]

Whistleblowing does not protect voluntary work he doesn't mention this

[@aneta1936]

All pretty but UK company in other country can do what ever they like. I was sacked by one corporation in other EU country and court in that country had different view. Report to UK authorities was with no reply therefore I was left with no job or money after serious crime report - this is where life does not follow this theory. My message to all - don't whistle-blow - this will always hit you unfortunately and change nothing. Life is brutal and corporations are massive predators - people for them are nothing.

[@danc407]

I was wondering if you might be able to do video on how you prepared for your law school and what you think it takes to get 1st and what you need to do.

[@paulhiggins6175]

Is this not under the good Samaritan lore; laws If any man or woman see; hear of a wrongdoing that causes harm loss damage injury to another man or woman that man or woman has a duty to report it to the proper authorities and bring it to their attention Yes or no ?