White vs. Black Vampiric Ideologies in MTG

[@DiceTry]

So tell me who is your favorite vampire across any media?

[@rodrigonoffs1369]

you must be the Belmont

[@The_Loreseeker]

It's _still_ Nosferatu.

[@Boudah67]

The vampires from the VtM lore. There are too much good characters there to pick one, though Beckett and Malkav are great.

[@lucassmith7770]

The Witcher. Beings from another world that understand how fragile humans are and go to great lengths to hide, not out of fear but out of an understanding that they are just too few compared to humans. I love that it takes away the human origins, something that I believe deepens the humanity they display.

[@jstratton1981]

Kain, Vorodor, Nosferatu, Mr Barlow and Rene's vampire mentor character from "My Best Friend is a Vampire."

[@christianwright5813]

Yes! The vampires of Ixalan are such a unique take on vampires that really drew me in when I first played the set. A great addition to my favorite tribe 🧛‍♂️

[@DiceTry]

Honestly I love them. I think it just works so well. Like placing the need to feed into the need for conquest is super cool

[@midnightbard3935]

Very much agreed, that take on vampire is brilliant - they feel like vampires, the tribe we know so well, yet are so innovative in that regard. It's also a fun twist on the traditional vamps who are talked about as spawns of hell, where now they're the church!

[@inkblot6626]

I think the Blue/Black vampires of the Dimir are really interesting as well as the Orzhov flavoring of the White/Black vampires

[@TheLorebrarians]

Thanks for having me on, it was a real pleasure! Love how the vampires of different planes have their own unique feel

[@Dile0303]

" Infinity war is the biggest crossover "

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

you made a great addition to an already interesting video, so thank you

[@liminal_entity1331]

This was a great video. It reminded me of a thought experiment I did a few months back, where I assigned the colours of MtG to the various clans of vampires from Vampire: the Masquerade. All of the clans had Black as a base, but they all also were paired with one or more other colours, based on the general traits associated with those clans. For example, the generally self-indulgent, hedonistic, and artistic Toreador clan was Black/Red, whereas the shadowy, manipulative, and individualistic Lasombra were Blue/Black. The Giovanni, a clan that organizes itself as equal parts organized crime family and death cult was White/Black, while the older Clan of Death that focused more on the physical aspects of life and death, such as rot, decay, and rebirth known as the Cappadocians were Black/Green. I could go on about all thirteen main clans and their bloodlines, and how I assigned colour pairings to them, but this comment would be overly long. I still found it to be an interesting thing to think about though, and I found that doing so helped me to better understand each of those clans on a more preternatural level.

[@kolbyyoung8525]

Which clan was Black/White/Red in color?

[@liminal_entity1331]

@@kolbyyoung8525 Brujah and the Ministry (aka Followers of Set), because I actually had to use each of the ten colour pairings more than once in order to represent all of the clans. Brujah because they are passionate idealists and iconoclasts who fight to overthrow the status quo and implement a system that they believe to be right, which is their Boros basis, but they're still vampires and are by the very nature selfish creatures (which is where Black comes in), so what they may believe to be right for the collective is ultimately only right for themselves. The same can be said for any politically involved Kindred, but the Brujah are a special case, as they have deluded themselves into believing that they are the clan most in touch with their Humanity, and therefore their ways are the most humane and morally superior, though they are actually just potential tyrants of a different stripe. Ministry, on the other hand, approach Mardu from a Rakdos basis, as they are all about tempting people away from their established beliefs and into the pursuance of their vices. Where White comes in for them is in their clan's organization and their belief that the work they do is in service to their god Set. Even in the rebranded Ministry, which more or less takes Set out of the equation for many members, they still feel it is their obligation and duty to lead others into sin, but who they rationalize this obligation to be to is subjective to each Minister. I went back and forth between Mardu and Rakdos for the Ministry for awhile, but in the end decided that this sense of obligation that they feel made them just a little bit White, and went with clan Baali for the second Rakdos entry.

[@garlicg4532]

Please do, I would adore that. Very curious as to what you'd mark Nosferatu?

[@liminal_entity1331]

@@garlicg4532 I went a few different ways with the Nosferatu at first, but eventually settled on Blue/Black for them, and more in the classic Dimir aspect of the pairing. They are generally the spies, saboteurs, information gatherers, and information brokers of any given city, silently slinking through the shadows, surreptitiously sussing out secrets. They may not have the more direct mind manipulation powers of the Lasombra, but they can still be plenty manipulative through their control of the information flow. I could see adding Green to them to make them Sultai, based on many of them adapting to living in the sewers and communing with the vermin found therein, but unlike the Gangrel who are very much in tune with the natural world, I find that Nosferatu generally have a relationship of convenience with it, using rats, bats, and other small critters as simply a further means of gathering information, rather than through any desire to actually bond with them. At their base, most Nosferatu are bitter about the circumstances that are thrust upon them, being that they are forced to stay out of everyone else's sight, but the smart ones find ways to adapt and turn these regrettable circumstances to their advantage, which I feel is itself a very Blue/Black thing to do.

[@The_Loreseeker]

Feels good to see the completed project - thanks for having me bro, was fun working with you again.

[@merdufer]

Black-blue vampires: prolong their lives by any mean possible so they can accumulate more knowledge Black-green vampires: see the deaths of their victims as a natural part of the cycle of life

[@Gigadramon6]

"I have no malice for my prey; does a wolf hate the elk? I am just a predator of a different sort."

[@shadow-faye]

​@@Gigadramon6 "why would I hate someone weaker than myself?"

[@eraumavoz6344]

The vampires of Ixalan definitely reminded me of Midnight Mass, on Netflix. Fantastic take on the tale of the Vampire, showing exactly how it could be misconstrued and turned into a religious ideal.

[@midnightbard3935]

Very well said. I'd be interested to see the vampires working in some other combinations as well, as someone wise pointed out, some vampire stories portray these beings as clever, calculating and manipulative, which fits blue, others have them be as dark primal forces of nature, more animal-like than human, which fits green. I believe Dimir has some blue/black vampires, those could be fun to talk about, and I think there's a legendary Sultai-colored one. Blue/green is the least explored combination then I guess, which would make for an interesting aesthetic (and thinking about it DOES fit one of my custom set ideas really well), and like... Since Vampire's are in Mardu colors, how about some red/white ones? That could be neat. Or not, I'm just making stuff up. Anyways, great video!

[@DiceTry]

For sure. There is a lot of room for exploration here.

[@michellemoore7829]

There were a couple of GB vampires in Strixhaven.

[@midnightbard3935]

@@michellemoore7829 There's exactly one, I've looked it up. So... still a lot of space for Golgari vamps!

[@kerithkordas7041]

im playing a sultai based dhampir ranger in dnd, hes a very calculating character who sees everything in relation to predator/prey relationships. Hes constantly training to become an apex predator in the wild. i love using the color pie to flesh out my characters :D

[@midnightbard3935]

@@kerithkordas7041 Right!

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

I feel like the Zendikar vampires should be golgari since they're a more "natural" vampire that leans into those shamanic tropes.

[@s.beccari4678]

Surprised that the old Sengir vampire art didn't get a cameo ...

[@RedSpade37]

I can't believe Paladin Vampires have been in MtG this long. Something I've wanted for some time!

[@maxpower7113]

If Innistrad had 3 colors for its tribes, I think making Stromkirk Vampires Black/Blue would fit them far better than Red/Black.

[@mrmr3657]

You started to get your wish

[@nickmojo3697]

I love this deep dive into a specific creature type, and would love to see more of this type of content!

[@DiceTry]

Well I am thinking of doing something similar with werewolves in the coming weeks

[@markthegriffin]

What an unexpected crossover! Love both your channels, good stuff all around!

[@LuckyAssult]

Would love to see a part two of this, speculateing on Blue/Black and Green Black vampires might look like

[@lirangorgon]

What is this? A crossover episode? I follow both lore channels (Vorthos FTW), and love them both, Especially Loreseeker. These colabs really enrich your essays, which are always good on their own. Great video overall

[@Tomrash]

I realy enjoyed that look at black/white as scewed morality. Might add this idea to my headcanon (and, as far as possible, choices) for my character in Pathfinder:Wotr. He is a Knight/Divine Hunter of Shelyn, godess of love and beauty, but he is also a lich. I imagine him taking on the gift/curse of lichdom to serve as an eternal guardian for everything he holds dear and finds beautiful in this world. With your look on black/white, I might add that he does everything to secure this power, thinking that what limited suffering he may cause now, he can make due in the (for him unlimited) future.

[@toodleselnoodos6738]

Hmmm another interesting thing for a White/Black society with vampires: a special/elite class of clerics that are specifically meant to feed a vampire warrior of the organization. They’re treated very highly in society, but drawn from the most pious/fanatical. Another idea, a society that has a vampire as their defender and so a sacrifice is considered a greater good. Sacrificing one to their vampire champion has saved hundreds of lives that would’ve been lost been lost otherwise to war/monsters. And Green/Black vampires as nature’s response to the rampant encroachment of civilization could be an interesting take of Green/Black vs. White/Blue. The apex human predator.

[@xr9790]

1:27 “Our constructed notion of humanity” *Dio theme intensifies*

[@pablolasagamota6215]

A featuring with Lorebrarians 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@ryan_the_rizza2571]

I know vampires are cantered in black, but I’d love to see red and white together without black and see what that representation could mean/look like for the tribe

[@hectormorales4090]

Fascinating! And the contributions... priceless...

[@raku5178]

Great breakdown of one of my favorite tribes, on another note, have you heard of/ taken the Mtg color quiz? And if you have what are your thoughts on it, is it accurate in your opinion, and what colors were given to you?

[@DiceTry]

I actually did take it. I have a video covering it. If we are talking about the same one then I think it's a great quiz. I found it pinned my beliefs down pretty well. I also like that it shows your score for all colors as I do think people are 5 color it's just we lean more into a couple of them a bit more.

[@raku5178]

@@DiceTry oh wow, I just recently found your channel, I’m going have to go look for your video know, I just found the quiz today and it’s been making my mind buzz nonstop.

[@DiceTry]

Well I love to hear that. The color pie is honestly such a fascinating mechanism

[@intelligentcounterspell16]

NO WAY LORESEAKER!!!!!!!! HECK YEAH Wat a cameo, I like lorbraiarian also , but loreseaker is that guy👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@DiceTry]

Yeah, loreseeker is a long-time friend of the channel. Check out my video on nissa he helped a lot on that one.

[@intelligentcounterspell16]

@@DiceTry no way!!!super cool , I will

[@seyproductions]

Probably my favourite race in MTG.

[@matthewstorm4135]

It would be great if you did a followup video on the black-blue vamps if Ravnica. Black-green vamps would be great too, but I can only think of less than a handful from Strixhaven.

[@xr9790]

This is the epitome of shower thoughts Okay so- There should be a set/story that frames vampires in simic/golgari. I’ve never seen vampirism as like a death like state, I’ve always seen it as just another form of life or the state in between, which is a super golgari thing Then I thought of the vampire Batman, who’s like morbius and is a vampire made from science, so technically not undead. It’d be cool to see a simic offshoot that has an emphasis on becoming vampires or other monsters to become a stronger organism, you know? Almost like a fantasy umbrella corps

[@XaviusNight]

I am sad you didn't show the Blue/Black vampires, they've mostly shown up in Innistrad, but they're really cool. I'd love to see Green/Black vampires at some point, and figure out how they'd get rationalized and built as a faction.

[@mastertadakatsu]

As for the other two: Black/Blue: The perfection of their Vampiric powers in order to better feed on humanity. Black/Green: The realisation that any animal is just as good as humans and letting go of civility to become wild and feral.

[@michaelturner2806]

Interesting to have pointed out just how rooted in black vampires are. No mono-colored vampires exist outside of WBR, and every multi-colored vampires includes black, even the few who stray into blue and fewer that touch on green. I think I counted 7 UB-only vampires, with only one from Dominaria and the rest from Ravnica. Not really enough to examine at the level of detail as the Innistrad or Ixalan ones, though.

[@bruvreallymate4365]

i believe markov waltzer and odric are white red only vampires

[@BarefootBry]

Excellent video, as always!

[@lordilluminati5836]

why so few views? these vids are fantastic!

[@DiceTry]

Well share them with your friends we will get there

[@logancole5101]

Just imagine a Black/Green Vampire, the one not invited to the balls and doesn't their prey in city streets, but roams the woods and picks off those humans that dare enter their turf. A primal Vampire that has either lost it's mind and gone feral or dropped all pretenses of nobility.

[@shorewall]

I think of a vampire that appears feral, but has just abandoned all pretense and chooses to hunt like that. Maybe tap into the wolf and bat familiars. Going Solo so as not to over hunt an area, and only taking as needed. Taking no joy in killing, but brooking no resistance.

[@matianlong7907]

would BG allined Vampires be more like death-druids than evil blood-drinkers?

[@Wyattbw09]

Nice to see Agent Smith is still able to get work these days.

[@DiceTry]

Oh man now I won't be able to hear anything else

[@FrozenSpector]

What about Sengir Vampires and Barron Sengir?

[@nicolaezenoaga9756]

Thanks.

[@coolaechardonnae7830]

yeh Veto with blood tribute works perfectly if they start at 20 life and they go down to 10 and you gain life veto hits em for 10 life thats game LoL gotta love the vampire synergy.

[@xr9790]

Please do a shapeshifter video if you haven’t done one yet 🙏

[@lucatronfietti5591]

In Ravnica they even have the mind eaters vampires of House Dimir, which feast on emotions, memories and knowledge. I don't think a black and green vampire exists tho.. anyone knows of such a being?

[@kolbyyoung8525]

Strixhaven had black and Green Vampires

[@SlowUnpacking]

I love these people, uhhh vampires. Transformation right?

[@DiceTry]

Those spooky folks who need a few days in the sun?

[@SlowUnpacking]

@@DiceTry yeah, like Lore and Lore 😂

[@LobsterSpecial]

Aren't the vampires of Zendikar also B/W?

[@kryptickodex3846]

Good content!

[@joshrobinson2409]

Here's something interesting what if you added green to the vampire cause I dont think golgari colored vamps exist

[@EpsoofKyiv]

grate crosover

[@DiceTry]

Greatest crossover since avengers

[@cultist1762]

Aren't Lorebarians just One Mind Syndicate after a rebrand? Didn't they just read off the wiki without changing anything even a little?

[@okeanos317]

I wonder if there are vampires that are blue and or green

[@luisvargas4985]

what vampires are great against dragons

[@jevonscantlebury9834]

There are now black green vamps and can't remember a blue black one tho

[@jevonscantlebury9834]

Nevermind Dimir

[@choosecarefully408]

You drop a line like "it's just that here on Earth those that act in this way don't have the excuse of Vampirism: then move on? If you leave that dangling, why introduce it? It can be abused in so many ways. Or misinterpreted. But no one in the comments section is likely brave enough to approach it.

[@volosguidetomonsters3440]

Jund Vampire

[@ClassMRule]

this loreseeker guy... yeah i dont know fam. im sure hes a nice dude in real life. but damn, that delivery is straight cringe.

[@lirangorgon]

Really? I find his delivery quite good. His dramatic readings on his channel are some of the best out there. If anything, I would say that about the Lorebrerians

[@ClassMRule]

@@lirangorgon i guess it just comes down to a matter of taste after all, but yeah they both kinda were huh

[@michelemichienzi934]

Nice video, but I definitely prefer your stile and this mix isn't really my thing. Expecially the part on ixalan, no offence but that stile of talking was not engaging for me and I ended up distracted.

[@MRDLT00]

I don't think I've ever seen any Vampire that was black and green. The two colors seem to be impossible to exist in a vampire.

[@fightingleaf]

Not if you lean into their rolls as hunters. Green sees a place for everything. Mix that with vampires, and they will see their role as apex predator as almost a holy vocation prescribed by mother nature herself. Though undead, they are given a new life, and they will use it, even if it's corrupted, much like how vampirism and Black corrupt White's values into a mere excuse for conquest.

[@MRDLT00]

@@fightingleaf That's a great idea. Could easily work. :D