Who has bad manner ? | WTT Singapore Smash 2023

Who has bad manner ? | WTT Singapore Smash 2023
Alexis Lebrun vs Yuan Licen
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[@wind4435]

Not defending Yuan here but the Lebrun brothers are infamous for rushing the opponents with their fast serve, even Ovtcharov had to raise his hand while playing against the 2 French brothers, their tactics are clearly to rush the opponent and force the opponent to play his pace.

[@TTWglobal]

Their style

[@guerrerorojas5348]

And when someone it’s rushing you with their service the solution is doing what Yuan did.

[@hotmapardameanhutasoit484]

Lebrun brothers did with purpose..they so talented but silly attitute

[@meihao2002]

Totally agree with you. I believe Yuan never does that to other players.

[@Titteeeee]

Stop the crap.. chinese player was awful..

[@jimactu]

I watched the match. As an audience, I felt annoyed by Yuan's behaviors. Alexis might rush to serve but not that until opponent was in position and time but Yuan still kept raising hand. First time raising up was acceptable but later on. It seemed like he strategically delayed the game. The game's continuation dropped and made it more frustrating.

[@jjing6548]

are you saying it's ok for Alexis to strategically rush the opponent but not okay for the opponent to slow him down? it's a two way street,mate

[@sadsadasadsadsf]

Normally, I used to feel their brother's serve rhythm is too fast. But same time I always feel bored when I watch table tennis full match video. I respect empire's decision. Table tennis association need to make new rule for making game delay for whole table tennis

[@taumax]

I think it is a two way street. There is excessive stalling, but there is also an expectation that the receiver be allowed to get ready. How many times have you played someone who rushes to serve when you're still getting ready? I can totally understand YLC position here. Whenever I play someone who rushes the service, I do the "hands up" tactic too.

[@Shrimp0kUgel]

Yeah, it's super annoying. If I'm the one picking up the ball, I usually keep it in my hands for a few seconds, get ready, and then pass the ball to the opponent to serve.

[@nagyandras8866]

It feels like a legal cheat when they are serving and the opponent is not ready. If you are not ready for receive the serve, you will miss more than 80%, and it's easy point for the opponent. But the question is, is it fair?

[@wallacewonghurshiaw]

Yes!

[@elinselin]

@@nagyandras8866 Exactly😢

[@jjing6548]

Yes you are right

[@thecsucihai]

If Yuan have no issue with other players, we need to question the fast serve tactic as well.

[@grandpapa31]

The French guy didnt respect the other player, even the Chinese guy was raising his hand to show he wasnt ready, Lebrun kept rushing to serve. What a bad manner! In sports, waiting until the other side is ready is more general. If you guys meet a rushing serve tempo situatiom, it would be better to leave the table for a few seconds and come back rather than standing and raising hand.

[@dmitrikonnov922]

Serve too quickly? Wasting time isn't illegal? What when Yuan Licen would have ambled up to the table every single time? He walks up to the table, see the opponent preparing for the serve and just keeps standing. Insane.

[@Endingblizzad]

Do you breathe?

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

​@@Endingblizzadwe also watch video with our eyes. So yaa we can see what happened.

[@ente866]

Honestly I'm more with Yuan than Lebrun. Yuan slowed it too much and yeah he got punished. But if you watched a lot of games you don't see anyone rushing the serve as much as Lebrun brothers. There should be a limit to disrupting opponent's morale and mentality. Raising morale for me with excessive yelling(Harimoto, Moregard) is also really rude but alas can't do nothing about that I guess. But with rushing serves, the judge should be able to see it and warn Lebrun in this case, not to rush too much.

[@wonghow]

why yuan raises hand all the time, is because Lebrun is breaking rules also does not check for receiver ready. I believe the yellow card is for excessive wait time. You are allow to signal unready. Yuan after signal unready walks around and wipe hand.

[@jiaruiyan496]

Rushing or delaying are simply their tactics. I would not say these are bad manners, but if I have to choose between them, I definitely prefer my opponents are the delaying type.

[@ComplicatedButSimplified]

I say that whoever has no sportsmanship, use these tactics against them, since lebrun brothers are in top 20 , I can't say that Lebrun brothers are non-sporty. Not blaming Yuan here as I understand his situation but he could have put in a little effort to get ready better and earlier. Just my opinion !!!!

[@samlook]

Yuan wasn't just trying to slow down the serve he was ready to receive. He was deliberately and disruptively slowing play after both players were in position to the point where he was repeatedly standing up and walking away just as Lebrun set to serve, seemingly to look at imaginery drops of water where he literally just wiped his hand ten seconds previously. He got exactly the yellow then red cards he deserved.

[@daverbook]

Yeah, except Yuan has never done that with other, more respectful players.

[@wonghow]

no, Yuan did not get up after being ready, he was standing raising hand, and Alexis still serve. Yellow card is not for raising hand to signal unready, it is for excessive wait time, which is after signal unready, he goes around wipe the hand on the table or walk away from table. Usually after receiver signal unready, they immediately become ready. Alexis cannot serve while receiver is signal unready, but he still serves, should get a yellow card too

[@edclee1997]

How fast is too fast, and how slow is too slow? Maybe just let the umpires determine that line. He or she calls for the serve and within 3 seconds both players must be ready for the point. That way there's no dispute.

[@wonghow]

Rules already did determine the wait time. Receiver can signal unready, that is allowed to prevent server to get to the table and serve. What is not allow is excessive use of wait time, that is, after signal unready you walk away or wipe hand. Umpire had to call on Ma Long's previous matches as well, he use excessive wait time, wipe hand on the table

[@StephenHui726]

It's not related with manners. It's related with playing style and thus their need to get into their own rhythm. Lebrun didnt have intension to rush the game, he just needs to play in that rhythm in order for him to play well. As an opponent, it's ok to "protect" your own rtythm because otherwise you can't play well.

[@thecsucihai]

How fast is too fast? What if Lebrun run into an opponent with faster rhythm then what?

[@royske123]

You need look at opponent before you serve!

[@ericye9762]

Is Only fast severing legal, as long as you picking up the ball ? You wanna fast serve when I haven't prepared, While I don't buy it.

[@PA-uj1rd]

I went back to check a few games from both of the players. Lebrun always rushed to serve and many players had to raise their hands. While Yuan did not often raise his hands against other players. Lebrun’s strategy is annoying, he doesn’t even look if the opponent is ready or not. Maybe it works mentally against some players but it’s not going to work against experienced players.

[@wonghow]

I seen other players like Harimoto always check receiver is ready, Alexis still serve when receiver raises hand

[@nagyandras8866]

I think this kind of rushing and ignore the opponent is disrespectful. I have never seen this before the Lebrun brothers, and in my opinion it's unfair. Everybody waits the opponents to get ready and then starts to serve.

[@ttime9947]

The Lebruns brought something new to professional table tennis: Serving despite opponent not being ready

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

Not in this video though. I didn't see him rushing.

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

​@@ttime9947is this why the chinese got yellow cards. Ref clearly doesn't know the rules right. 😅😅

[@PianistsRavel]

The rule is when your hand is up it's indicating you're not ready. Rushing a player into action is not fair. All sports have some type of mechanism to put both players in ready position. In baseball the hitter puts his hand up while stepping in the box, the pitcher can't throw a pitch the second the batter steps in the box. In football the offense can't hurry up and catch the defense unready for the play. That's why the referee has to handle the ball before each play. What they need to do in order minimize the so - called stalling is have a timer. There is no consistency in warnings, some umpires make a comment when they think it's slow and others don't. Baseball, football, basketball and tennis all have some time management mechanism. In table tennis 10 seconds may be long for one umpire and not for another because there is no uniformity. Please, that is not why the Chinese are dominant in table tennis because they are stalling. Everyone wants the game played in their style. So at least in TT every 2 points each player can impose their will. One can be quick when it's his/her turn and the other slow when it's their 2 serves.

[@zeleony05]

Yes, Lebrun also did the same against Chuang Chih Yuan and Dimitrij Ovtcharov. Just bad mannered. People don't say anything when they stop Lebrun serves huh. Matter of fact a lot of players are getting carded in this WTT. Umpires are just very strict and emotional this time around.

[@fredericdehohenstaufen7874]

@@zeleony05 @PianistsRavel Honestly I can't apprehend what you're saying. At every point, Yuan Licen goes at the table, Alexis sees him going into position, then Alexis starts his serve-process where you can clearly see he can't see his opponent who is supposed to be in the same position, but THEN Yuan raises his hand, when Alexis can't see him. Yuan is inventing a new "unready" status. I was ready but suddenly I'm not anymore, in 2 seconds, with nothing happening. I can totally accept a "too fast" comment if Lebrun serves when his opponent is still walking to the table or even standing up, but it's not the case here. Just look at 1:38, Alexis's is looking diagonally for Yuan to take his ready position, and sees him bend, so he starts his serve-process, and Yuan take back a standing stance after that. Clearly deliberate and unsportmanship.

[@wonghow]

Alexis did not follow rules. Alexis serves when the receiver is raising hand to signal not ready. Alexis should get yellow card as well. Every time the receiver raises hand Alexis still serves.

[@andreydartsandtt]

Леброн, очень часто хитрит и подает подачу, когда соперник не готов.

[@ZetaTango83]

Ittf needs to have the 3 second rule so whoever is not ready in 3 seconds loses the point. This should make tt even more fast paced n exciting!

[@PA-uj1rd]

Imagine having a long rally a few seconds ago and had to start a new round in 3 seconds. It just turns the game into a marathon in which the player who has better endurance wins.

[@johangamb]

"Guilty of trying to serve fast" ?? What are you talking about his serve action takes at least 5 secs, starting after he sees the guy standing - it's slow. He is not trying to surprise anyone, if you are not ready after that amount of time, you are deliberately being "not ready"

[@nulldemokratiezwei7773]

Exactly. They are tt-professionals, participating in a tournament. How can they be "not ready" for the serve? I mean, what are they doing instead? Cooking, writing a book? I am not talking about serving, when the other player is still 3 metres away from the table. But what is shown in this video is clearly poor sportmanship. And then these idiot players complain about being paid poorly... well, if nobody watches tabletennis, where should the money come from? And why are there fewer and fewer spectators? Because it is not fun watching anymore. It has gotten worse and worse.

[@sunyang636]

@@nulldemokratiezwei7773 why are you spitting your mom’s shit outta your mouth. You’re just jealous of Asians cause Europeans never win. The Chinese player did nothing wrong, if HARIMOTO screams it’s also okay. You German are like Almänner. It’s just a part of table tennis that you scream and let yourself time to interrupt the rhythm

[@skjortan]

" deliberately being not ready " perfect description of whats going on here.

[@PA-uj1rd]

Check the game between Lebrun and Dina, Chuang or Linyunru, they all had to raise their hands showing they were not ready.

[@dedalosikaros2161]

Ι agree that Alexis serves quickly. Also, I dont like the way he throws the ball to the oponent in order for him to serve.

[@PolrathSrey]

Referee/umpire should be trained as an International/a professional carrier in TT

[@pursuit9827]

To me Lebrun brothers had no respect to the game and other players. The other players have no such issues at all. It's only when they are playing, it becomes an issue. Chinese Ma Lin went the other way, and yes, it didn't break any rule, but was shameful act too.

[@loukas371]

That is so unsportsmanlike and plain rude. Glad he got rekt, He should be reprimanded by his coaches for these actions. And the umpire didn't do enough to stop him IMO.

[@almazniysad]

and after red card, you continue the game? not disqualification?

[@parkdino2489]

Red card would just result in a point loss in table tennis

[@almazniysad]

@@parkdino2489 thank you

[@Shrimp0kUgel]

​@@parkdino2489 what do you mean by point loss? Like ranking points? Or being a set down? Or game points?

[@ottoparts789]

@@Shrimp0kUgel a point in the game is lost. After that you lose two points and then the ref or umpire can disqualify you.

[@pierrot4444]

first time it is a yellow card, second and third time it is a yellow and a red card together (also called yellow-red card) and 4th time it s only red card resulting in a disqualification

[@roberham6659]

剛剛平野:Wang you di , 平野也戰勝黄牌

[@takgotv]

However, his serve is too fast.

[@Endingblizzad]

The behavior of the lebruns shall not be supported, because the message you are delivering is that you can always steal a serve whenever you got the ball, somebody will abuse this regulation and the sport will be a mess. Just imagine u just finished serving, and 2 fast serves coming in and you are not ready.😂😂😂

[@ttime9947]

Haha, and that's what some people argue. Receiver must be ready as soon the server is, which means you can pick up the ball and run to the table and quick serve with no worries of your opponent because you are ready yourself lol

[@daverbook]

I get pretty sick of players trying to always gain an edge outside of their playing ability. Stomping you foot while serving, serving quickly, screaming when you hit the ball, screaming excessively between points, wearing light colored shirt to tournaments. Are these players really that scared to lose? Lack of respect for the other player won't get you worthwhile admiration from anyone.

[@scotthuang3]

what's wrong with stomping while serving?

[@mtdrew7411]

The umpire did a poor job.

[@jeanducheamps7697]

Guilty of trying to serve to quickly? That has to be the biggest bs I’ve heard in a long time.

[@sirwillemgaming9686]

I think Table Tennis rules should have a whistle to start the serve and no more hand raising after the whistle. Want to wipe your hand or do something on your feet? Do it before the whistle.

[@markscheuerman7962]

Only Yuan's fault. Any other interpretation is delusional

[@BahriddinAbdiev]

How Lebrun was serving fast here? Licen surely had enough time to prepare for receiving. This is 100% annoying manner from Licen.

[@johansjostrand2096]

Xuxin did the same tactic under the World cup in Halmstad Sweden, it was so boring too Watch him so se decided to go for a walk every time he played. Table tennis should be a fastpace game so i much rather see someone rushing the opponent than this shit

[@xiaojinshou901]

这两个法国小孩一直这样。他们试图打破乒乓球长期的习惯，一方准备好，发球方才发球。他们的目的有两个，一是打乱对方的节奏，另一个是让对方心理产生反感，从而影响发挥。这与张本智和赢𠆤球就疯狂喊叫是如出一辙。这三个都没有运动家的风范，其运动生涯的最终结果也是可想而知的。

[@TTWglobal]

哈哈，急性子

[@janelee5924]

这个袁励岑是师承有人，想想中国队哪个在发球时无数次在衣服上搓球？再想想哪一个在发球时无数次把球在嘴上吹来吹去？又是哪一个比赛时不断地在地板上用鞋擦蚂蚁？祖传的小伎俩！胜之不武，败则活该。

[@TTWglobal]

@@janelee5924 ma lin

[@evechenisme]

The French player deserved a yellow card too. The umpire was not fair to both players.

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

He doesn't.

[@v.h.3027]

Hey dude, what are talking about Yuan Licen's strategic play? He's a mere coward

[@mexanikysyar1447]

Ну он же в очках, не видит))

[@richardstella5927]

Since you are talking about time delaying tactics to slow down an opponent’s rhythm, the current national coach of China’s table tennis team and a former player himself is the master of time delaying tactics until his compatriot, Liu Guozheng, at one time had to show his displeasure to Ma Ling during a crucial point in their match when Ma Lin was trailing.

[@canicetang8837]

PRC coach for Yuan should be reprimanded and suspended by the organizer. Such tactics of purposely delaying should not be in the sport at all. A fine and suspension by the ITTF to Yuan is absolutely necessary not to repeat this ever again. Disgraceful!

[@cuongtkong58]

Hey, ping-pong! Now, what year did you say you were world champion in? And in which world, THE WORLD OF DELUSION?

[@klaasparlevliet2952]

Why take a lot of players nowadays so much time for serving...compared to 30 years ago forinstance there is a great difference. Time should be drastically limited officially....certainly if you want to promote tabletennis as an attractive sport to watch!! The Lebrun brothers show that you can serve with high quality with little time...Just focus and go....can be trained...

[@warrenjones5077]

Appalling poor sportsmanship, he’s not the only Chinese player guilty popping up the hand repeatedly. It appears to be something they practice.

[@sunyang636]

What are you talking about? Alexis already had this problem with Chuang Chih Yuan from Taiwan. Europeans are just like little kids. They don’t understand table tennis that’s why they always lose😂

[@rohitsinghyxrs]

Westerners crying a lot now...like always

[@aalokatmaa1606]

I see that other way round in terms of sportmanship. Non Chinese especially white guys are more unprofessional than Asians. For example Truls throwing racket when he seems to lose. Also one guy who misbehaved with kid Harimoto. I guess he’s from Romania or Czech Republic. Even I see a lot of bad manners here in Europe when I play competitions. That’s very strictly prohibited in Asia for example, Wang CQ was suspended for months for just throwing racket on the table. Liang Jingkun was got suspended from putting racket on his pant. I haven’t seen players being punished for such actions.

[@warrenjones5077]

Wow don’t like being called for educated gamesmanship. Table isn’t the only think practiced. 😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@sunyang636]

@@warrenjones5077 are ur laughing with you?? Cause to be honest I don’t get your point. That’s probably because you can’t type or speak English. So I guess no one knows what your little mouth wanted to spit.

[@marcuswong6263]

My comment is that Li Chen is taking far too long to be ready for a serve or getting ready to serve. Certainly unsportsmanlike!

[@yeohwengkim1555]

两人都有错，应该都被罚禁赛一站。

[@antoniog2833]

Alexis did nothing wrong . The other player had zero sportsmanship . Glad yuan lost.

[@eugeniocosta9589]

No, alexis is wrong, that’s why everyone complains about him in the tour, also other Europeans. Meanwhile no one complains about yuan. Ask yourself why, because the Frenchman is the problem

[@Keplan999]

@@eugeniocosta9589 true

[@batamist]

@@eugeniocosta9589 untrue

[@eugeniocosta9589]

@@batamist the french ego is bigger than a house. Return to reality go watch other games with Lebrun and see how others react

[@sunyang636]

@@eugeniocosta9589 yes Lebrun already had this problem with chuang. Chuang is a very calm und player with very good sportsmanship. If it happened to chuang, Lebrun has to have a problem

[@user-qq2or8le5h]

遅延しといて負けるんかい！

[@TableTennis-Man]

China style "cannot afford to lose" 😝😝😝

[@shuli6021]

jealous about China??

[@sunyang636]

Europeans just can’t play. And want to finish the games quickly.

[@rohitsinghyxrs]

Europeans always crying and jealous of china

[@sunyang636]

@@rohitsinghyxrs professional European players don’t have a problem with China cause they admit they can’t beat China in normal cases. But European fans are just crying because their players use crooked techniques and they always loose games to China.

[@nn0424]

Correct. Lebrun should have finished the match at 3-0 instead of 3-1

[@user-kx8yn9kw1r]

Позор Китаю!☝️

[@dakezhang623]

输球又输人

[@carlswindelliv2701]

U have to play to the speed of the server!!!!!!!!!!! Not the receiver!!!!!!!!!!! Yuan should've got a red card!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Thomas-ko1gb]

Well he did

[@ttime9947]

Again, show me the rule

[@carlswindelliv2701]

@@ttime9947 it's on the rules of table tennis printed a while back I don't know where u can get a copy now though

[@ttime9947]

@@carlswindelliv2701 Got you, as expected you can't show me the rule

[@elinselin]

@@carlswindelliv2701 perhaps you can go reread on it?

[@batamist]

Poor sportsmanship from Yuan Licen, shame on him

[@jytan740]

Should ban the player from future games

[@iog5855]

Not human it was just Chinese

[@mariaaustin1054]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour from the Chinese player should have been disqualified !!