Who in Middle-Earth Could Effectively Wield the One Ring?

[@ShmuelSch]

I think Galadriel can do everything she said, because she told Sam something like 'That's how it'll start, but it won't end there' after she already snapped out of it.

[@HenhousetheRed]

I think Tolkien is suggesting in Letter 246 that it takes a strong will and an evil, dominating nature (or resolve) like Sauron's to be able to use the Ring effectively, by any being. If it is not in their nature (Frodo), or if they know better (Gandalf), or if it goes against their own personal goals (Galadriel), the Ring would need time to corrupt the wielder and twist their nature towards evil. The Ring is always trying to turn its wielder into a facsimile of its Master. By the time of Mount Doom, "Frodo had been enlarged spiritually and had a much stronger will, but he had only used it in resisting the Ring. He would have needed much time before he could control it, or actually before the Ring increased his will and arrogance to the point where he could dominate other major wills." But if resolve or a strong will isn't there and can't be added, as in the case of Gollum, the wielder just spirals around the Ring as it twists them, and is drawn deeper and deeper into corruption. In this instance, the Ring "failed," and trapped itself in the Misty Mountains, until something else came along to free it. "Of any others only Gandalf might be expected to master [Sauron] since he was a creature of the same order. In Lothlórien Galadriel appeared to believe that she could wield the Ring and supplant Sauron but she knew it was not so; her rejection of the Ring was based on previous thought and resolve." So those among the Wise may possess the will and resolve, but not the necessary nature. The Ring is especially dangerous to them. Upon claiming the Ring as his own, and going against the remaining Nazgul and Sauron, "Frodo's weakness would be not knowing how to use the weapon and being adverse to violence." The Ring "fits" best on the fingers of beings who reflect its Master's nature. Failing this, the Ring "increases" the arrogance and evil nature of the being in possession of it to "fit." So there's a bit of irony here, as the Ring is capable of changing its size to fit on any finger, and yet the Ring also corrupts those near it to make them "fit" the Ring.

[@tominiowa2513]

What if an evil being of strong will without fingers such as "Sauron's cat" ended up with the One Ring? Was Gollum wrong to assume that Shelob would just discard the One Ring as she did with the metallic possessions of her other victims?

[@Enzaio]

Thanks for this explanation, very interesting. In light of this, would Boromir fit the bill a lot better than Faramir?

[@iepvienredstoneHuy007]

@@tominiowa2513 shelob is possibly on par with morgort or at least sauron which problably gave her some immune to it corruption, so maybe to her, the Ring is just a ring?

[@dba1862]

"Capable of changing It's size to fit on any finger" has gotten a new twist that probably best fits It's nature.

[@robertstrawser1426]

Frodo would’ve been quickly twisted and corrupted, long before he would’ve ever gained mastery over it. His mind likely would’ve been broken by the effort to use it to dominate others. No mortal would’ve been able to master the Ring. Sooner or later they would’ve gone down the way of Gollum. I think Isildur would’ve actually fallen faster than Sméagol because intentionally using it would’ve escalated it’s effects. Gandalf certainly could’ve used it to it’s full potential but, eventually, it would’ve corrupted him. Maybe he could’ve supplanted Sauron, but the power in the ring was still inherently a part of Sauron so it’s questionable as to how much you could turn the Ring against its own master. It may have betrayed him in the end. It certainly would’ve corrupted him. Galadriel is an interesting case. She was the one individual in Middle Earth that Sauron actually feared, for good reason. She was tremendously powerful and came from a lineage that fought Morgoth himself, in one case direct one-on-one combat. In the unfinished tales we read the, during the final month of Tolkien’s life, he was elevating Galadriel even more to the status of one of the mightiest of all elves, ever, second only to Feanor. She is immortal and mentally gifted with the ability to see into the minds of others. So, it’s hard to say if she could’ve stood as good a chance against Sauron as Gandalf. She could already see into Sauron’s mind and block him from seeing into her mind. That’s pretty powerful. Maybe she could’ve overthrown him. I wouldn’t bet on it but I wouldn’t count her out. The big issue is that, as long as the One exists, Sauron would always return. Any “defeat” would alway be temporary.

[@providencebreaker1558]

I'm not even convinced the ring specifically makes you invisible by design. I think it's simply amplifying a hobbit's natural subconscious tendency to want to remain unseen or hidden. Gandalf remarks that hobbits have an almost supernatural quality about them that allows them to go unnoticed and the ring seems to lend its power to that.

[@brucetucker4847]

It doesn't make you invisible _by design_ because Sauron never intended it to be worn or possessed by any mortal. But it is not effect unique to Hobbits, the Nazgul are made invisible by their rings for the same reason Gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo are: it moves a wearer like any mortal who only exists in the seen world into the unseen world. Someone like Sauron or Gandalf or even Glorfindel who already exists in both the seen and unseen worlds is not made invisible. (And of course Bombadil isn't affected in any way by wearing it.) Invisibility for mortals is just an unintended side effect. I've always wondered how the Nazgul went about their lives when they were in the process of becoming Nazgul and were still rulers of mortals. It must have been disconcerting for their followers to say the least.

[@johnries5593]

@@brucetucker4847 And Isildur was known to have used it for invisibility when he was fleeing from the Orcs before it fell off and he became visible.

[@TheMentalblockrock]

The ring bearer goes invisible when wearing the ring because wearing it takes them into the unseen , spirit world, which the Nazgul permanently inhabit.

[@mbgdemon]

Galadriel's warning to Frodo is actually a prediction. Frodo does use the Ring to dominate the will of others when he forces Smeagol to swear to obey him "by the precious". Note how this oath is brought up many times over the course of The Two Towers, and of course in that one very explicit scene. Sam sees the the ethereal world, Frodo robed in white, and the Ring as a ring of fire speaking to Gollum "if you touch me again, I will cast you into the fire"---exactly what Frodo promised would happen during the oath if Smeagol betrayed him. Thus Frodo has used the ring's more powerful abilities to dominate others, and this corruption is why he fails his quest. Also, this symbolizes how evil will always exert its will to destroy, even and especially in the destruction of itself.

[@gib59er56]

Great analysis! You nailed the whole concept or reaction/result in using the Ring in all cases , for the most part. Gandalf tells Frodo in the 2nd chapter "Shadow of the Past" when he says even the lesser rings that were "essays" in the craft were dangerous for any mortal to hold. And So so so many people do not realize Frodo failed in the end. He could not destroy it. He was f%$^@#. It was the fight with Gollum that destroyed the Ring.

[@janach1305]

I always assumed that Aragorn’s comment to Boromir that he was not Isildur was tact in the face of a potential rival for the rule ofGondor. At the Council of Elrond, the need was for unity, so Aragorn did not push his superior royal status. More than once Aragorn is said to be hiding his power until he finally steps forward to lead the battle against Sauron and claim his kingship. He eventually shows himself as powerful as Isildur, and also his moral superior, since he is wise enough to reject the Ring.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

My take on the rings powers was it mainly amplified the wearer's abilities. Allowing the wearer to expand themselves to previously unknown heights. But this was the danger of the ring too. Because their essence doesn't actually grow. Just gets stretched so it can hold more. Which is usually more of the ring.

[@markrichards3640]

Bear in mind that Smeagol took possession of the Ring through an act of murder. His villainy in that regard is a factor in how the Ring affects him. As opposed to the mercy Bilbo shows Gollum when it comes into his possession. Galadriel also has quite a bit of practice in wielding her own ring of power, Nenya.

[@benlewis5312]

As does Gandalf

[@NPaulBears]

Just discovered your channel and only watched a handful of videos. My first thought was “this guy needs some edits with pics and video”, but after seeing a few videos I actually get it and like the format. Much more natural than highly edited videos

[@MToms127]

Been a while since I read the books, and maybe it doesn’t really fit the topic of the video exactly. But the ring gives some powers/abilities without Frodo wearing it. He is able to see Galadriel’s ring when others couldn’t. He doesn’t put it on when he threatens Gollum that he will be thrown into the fire. I also seem to remember, but this might be wrong, that Frodo can hear Gollum following them in Moria because of the ring.

[@Omniseed]

Frodo also got that secret sauce of morgul knife poison, so he could have increased hearing due to the whole wraith-ening effect of said poison

[@mikedeck8381]

Frodo might've used the ring to disguise he and Sam as orcs. It seemed odd that the orcs bought their disguise. It was also odd that the two orcs tracking them tried to kill each other as soon as they got near the ring. Frodo wrote it off as orcs being orcs but they got along fine until they came near Frodo and the ring.

[@fett1818]

@@mikedeck8381 The problem with this is that Frodo, even when wearing the ring has little control over it. Even Isildur, who had the ring for a few years, and was actively trying to bend it to his will couldn't influence orcs to any real degree as he himself states. That's not to mention that it would benefit the ring to be found by orcs, seeing as the ring would likely show them how greatly rewarded they would be if they returned it to their master, which is the ring's ultimate goal. In the end, I think it really was just orcs being orcs.

[@mbgdemon]

@@fett1818 The ring just causes strife in its presence, when those present know about it. It may be a movie-only element but recall in the movie's Council of Elrond that it is very clear that the ring is causing to council to argue with each other unproductively.

[@cirkleobserver3217]

Don’t forget that hobbits have a natural ability to hide in plain sight, and deceive others around them.

[@tonyf8167]

1. the idea of 'artifact possession' in D&D comes directly from the One Ring in TLOTR; basically, the ring will eventually corrupt anyone of 'lesser' power (maybe even equal to as well) than what's in the ring. 2. we know that all elven ring bearers in the 2nd age were immediately aware when Sauron put on the One, thats up to 16 people (Celebrimbor still had the Three): i would posit that Galadriel being desirous to "rule" herself would be immediately aware if anyone put on the ruling ring, where as Elrond (turning down his right to the High Kingship) and Gandalf not wanting to rule over others may not have been aware. 3. taking everything into account; i dont believe any "mortal" in Tolkien's work could wield the 'Full power' of any of the rings, they arnt like a green lantern ring (working according to the 'willpower' of the user), rings of power are like amplifiers; they "...grant power according to the measure of the wielder...", so, the more power you natively have the more power the ring would give you.

[@KevDaly]

When it comes to Isildur's native strength (and Aragorn's), it may be relevant that Elros and Elrond and their descendants are part Maia (I think that may be the origin of their healing power, which Aragorn has but Elrond has in greater measure).

[@joseraulcapablanca8564]

Good stuff as ever. I think LotR makes it clear, that the ring begins its effects immediately. Isildur, immediately takes it away from its source of destruction. Sam immediately takes it nearer both to orcs and to their master. Clearly it also confers some power instantly. Sam projects as a powerful warrior to the orcs of Minas Morgul. It is worth mentioning how little contact with the thing affects Boromir, clearly Galadriel and Gandalf are beings of great heritage and power, wise enough to know they could not control this bane. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[@seanboyd2898]

You know what I love about Sam pulling off that stunt? Frodo jokes in the beginning of the Fellowship that Sam may turn out to be a wizard by the end of all the adventure. (lost my copy when starting the re-read, but it shows that Sam is the GOAT)

[@angelalewis3645]

I’m catching up on your videos. This is very well researched and thought out!

[@kryshalis]

Galadriel knew about Frodo wearing the ring because it's bound to her ring. When Sauron put it on the first time the wearers of the three were aware of him and took their rings off. If I'm not mistaken when Frodo puts the ring on on Amon Hen he hears a voice telling him to take it off, which is either Gandalf or Galadriel. It's been a while since I've read the books, so I could be willing here, though

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

That can’t be the answer because that would mean they would know when Gollum used it and realize Saruman was wrong about the fate of the Ring.

[@istari0]

Great timing! This topic has come up lately in conversations I have in which I have been involved about the Ring. One question. If Sauron's physical form was slain while another was wielding the Ring, what difference would that have on the Ringbearer's ability to control and use the Ring and possibly delay its corrupting him?

[@GerryBolger]

That's a great question. I don't have the slightest idea of its answer but I really like the question..

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I doubt it would have any effect.

[@Enerdhil]

If we assume that Sauron can reembody himself as long as the One Ring still exists, it would take him presumably 1000 + years to reembody. But your question is about the Ring bearer, so wouldn't he/she have the same powers as before? Unless, you think he/she would get a power boost from a disembodied Sauron, which doesn't make sense to me.

[@istari0]

@@Enerdhil I didn't have any specific thoughts about what difference it might make; I was just wondering if it might make a difference.

[@BerserkerX]

Galadriel's speech is an example of how the ring clutches the mind of any being, no matter how powerful, to convince them to use the ring but the ring always takes control. What she said might be true but what's true is that the ring is already dominating her.

[@kilsonx8262]

Some other potential ring wielders that would be fun to take a look at: Tom Bombadil, Beorn, Saruman, Tree Beard, The Witch King, and Durin's Bane

[@carloscrecelius9597]

Gandalf said the ring would have no effect on Tom Bombadil, good or ill. He was likely to forget and lose it because it would be an insignificant trinket in his eyes. Treebeard would be interesting. The Balrog would become a far more destructive version of Sauron, more interested in destruction than control, I think.

[@dmwoodgmail]

Saruman the White, was corrupted by temptation and replaced by Gandalf the Grey.

[@chasjetty8729]

Put it on an eagle.

[@Enzaio]

@@carloscrecelius9597 The topic here is 'could' not 'would'. I guess he definitely could use it if he wanted to, but it probably wouldn't allow him to do anything he can't already do, right?

[@someguy4405]

To Tom Bombadil it’s effectively just a trinket. It wouldn’t give him any powers, it would be like asking a mountain to wield a sword.

[@paulcrowley3172]

I've recently had a wonder about what would become of Greenwood/Mirkwood if instead of Gandalf getting that ring, it instead was given to Thranduil. Elrond and Galadriel benefitted greatly by having their own rings, and it makes me wonder how things would have played out had Thranduil been the last one instead of Gandalf.

[@Jitterzz]

I haven’t watched the video yet, but I’ll share my thoughts first. I’ve long held the belief that three people could have defeated Sauron if they took the One Ring for their own, which are Aragorn, Galadriel, and Gandalf. Sauron thought he would be able to defeat Aragorn himself, but he was legitimately scared of him reclaiming his Kingship and uniting the free peoples against him again. We know Galadriel has a vision of what she would be when she won after taking the ring, and I think the fact both her and Gandalf had rings of power of their own in combination with the One would be Sauron’s downfall. The only way the people win though is if Frodo and Sam take the ring to Mount Doom as was meant to happen. The evil of the ring would have endured and either of those 3 would have been tyrannical in their own rights, so Frodo was the only chance for Middle-Earth to be free of the ring and Sauron’s influence for good. But those 3 could have still cast down Sauron and replaced him as the new dictator of the land.

[@brucetucker4847]

Aragorn might be able to use the Ring well enough to win a military victory over Sauron, which might last for centuries, but eventually he would become its slave rather than its master and Sauron would be able to return and take it from him. Tolkien said in a letter that Gandalf was probably the only being in Middle-earth with the power to truly master the Ring to the point of making it serve him rather than Sauron - at which point he'd essentially become the new Sauron.

[@brovold72]

I would certainly include Elrond, and Saruman, and maybe Glorfindel and some others of Elrond's household. Perhaps even Denethor.

[@charlietheebarker3234]

Great information and conversation, keep up the great work!

[@olafthebear2327]

To answer the question strictly in the title, the Balrog would probably be able to use the ring, as well as any of the dragons.

[@benthomas7629]

But would the ring fit on the Balrog's fingers ...?! Does it even HAVE fingers? :D

[@Sleepy.Time.]

Saruman since his wants and desires fall in line with Sauron's own so the ring would do just what he wants it to do.

[@Lopyswine]

Did Gollum have visions of "the eye" whenever he put the ring on? I wonder if Sauron's presence was strong enough 100 to 500 years ago. I am also curious if you think the eye was a real manifestation or symbolic? I personally never thought the eye was an actual massive flaming eye at the top of the tower. I imagined that ring bearers would feel the power of Sauron but the rest of middle earth didn't.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

That whole thing is just a movie invention. Frodo doesn’t have visions of the eye in the book, so I doubt Gollum did.

[@Lopyswine]

@@TolkienLorePodcast I think that Frodo felt the presence and power of Sauron but I agree, he didn't see the eye.

[@unclejimmy7]

Tangentially related to this, I think this passage is an example of Frodo using some power of the Ring. Frodo sat on the seat of seeing and was able to see for hundreds or even thousands of miles, but Aragorn sat on the seat just minutes after Frodo and only saw as much as you could see from any mountain. Another possible example of Frodo using the power of the Ring was while he talked with Galadriel, just before or just after looking in her mirror, he was able to see her ring of power while Sam could not.

[@unclejimmy7]

Frodo has also been shown to have the uncanny ability to read people's thoughts. A moment that comes to mind is, just before Boromir asks Frodo to hand over the ring at the end of Fellowship, Frodo tells him that he already knows what Boromir is going to ask and that he would not do it.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Well that’s not hard to figure out though. 😂

[@tonyshannon8429]

Mae govannen, thank you for a very interesting video. Liked and subscribed :)

[@Vandervecken]

Cirdan, Glorfindel, Smaug (if he could have found some way to wear it), the Mouth of Sauron. Treebeard?

[@johnh6524]

I think you're wrong we know that Frodo could weld the ring because he does. His wielding of the ring both causes his fall (and redemption) and the dawning of the new age. "Sam saw these two rivals with other vision. A crouching shape, scarcely more than the shadow of a living thing, a creature now wholly ruined and defeated, yet filled with a hideous lust and rage; and before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice. ‘Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom" This is what happens - Frodo's first order as wielder of the ring: "Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made, and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare." It would seem that Sauron is aware that his power has been challenged not simply by the closeness of the ring to its destruction, but by it being claimed, presumably by one who might wield it. But for Sauron it is too late the ring has been claimed and Frodo's first command of the ring is about to be fulfilled. Gollum doesn't fall into the cracks of Doom because he is clumsy, but because the master of the ring fated that it should happen. The success of the mission is caused by Frodo gaining enough power to use the ring fall and fail, so that the new age is the product of mortal falability, struggle and sin. If you doubt that Frodo has this strength consider Saruman's last words: "Saruman rose to his feet, and stared at Frodo. There was a strange look in his eyes of mingled wonder and respect and hatred. ‘You have grown, Halfling,’ he said. ‘Yes, you have grown very much. You are wise, and cruel." Saruman recognises Frodo as an equal or more than an equal.

[@istari0]

While it is true Frodo commanded Gollum to begone, it was shortly thereafter that Gollum attacked Frodo again and bit off the finger upon Frodo bore the Ring so the effect of that command did not last long. It was Gollum's breaking of the oath to aid Frodo, which first happened when they were trying the pass of Cirith Ungol, that led to Gollum's demise. So, yes Frodo claimed the Ring and while he certainly was much more than he was at the beginning of the quest, he did not have mastery over it. Despite his own growth in power and authority, he was still no Gandalf, Galadriel, or Aragorn. Even if he had the time and training to master the Ring himself, he still wouldn't have been powerful enough to defeat Sauron because he simply didn't have the inherent power necessary as the Ring augments a being's native power. I'm not even sure he ever would have been able to master the Ring. When Frodo claimed the Ring, Sauron realized what he had been unable to imagine before, namely that his enemies sought to destroy the Ring. Nothing else was needed. Sauron knew the Ring had been claimed but that he knew who had claimed it is not something the text indicates. The only reason for any of the Free Peoples to go to Mount Doom and there claim the Ring was if they had intended to destroy it. As far as Saruman goes, Gandalf had broken his power and authority at the confrontation at Orthanc after the battles of Helm's Deep and Isengard had destroyed Saruman's forces. Saruman was a fraction of what he had been and really only retained the power of his voice. If he had still been Saruman the White, one of the Istari, there was no way the hobbits would have been able to defeat him. Gandalf would have never sent the 4 Hobbits of the Fellowship back to the Shire alone if he thought Saruman was as he had always been. Yes, Saruman did have a respect for Frodo at the very end based on Frodo's ability to basically act as the leader of the Hobbits, including telling them not to do such things as slaying Saruman but Saruman also hated Frodo for what Frodo had become. Frodo had in many ways become much like Gandalf although without all the abilities a maia had.

[@johnh6524]

@@istari0 Mmm I can see we are probably not going to agree - but the fact that Tolkien is open to different interpretations makes it Great. Getting back to the debate… I think one of the ingenious things about the Ring is that it makes power impotent, the powerful cannot use the ring because it will inevitably corrupt them. I feel that this is what Isildur realizes - he cannot bend the ring to his will, he would bend to it and become a servant of Darkness of Morgoth. To wield the ring would destroy him. The power would destroy him - Galadriel has the same realization. The meek are more resistant to the ring because they have less power. I’m also reminded of Psalms 37:11 “The meek shall inherit the earth” Tolkien being Catholic In Frodo’s case, meekness is where he starts but after defying the ring and struggling with it he grows. Eventually, he grows to the point he can wield the ring. But what does wielding the ring mean? What does it do, it has power over the fates of Middle Earth? I don’t think that it is a remote control for orcs, but influences the fate of Middle Earth and the power of the other rings. Maybe Frodo wouldn’t have had the power to control the armies of Middle earth but he didn’t need to; to change the world he just needed to change the fate of Gollum. In the fact that Frodo’s fall is bound to changing the world, perhaps we can see the hand of Eru both mercy and the age of mortals is tied to their fallibility.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I don’t think we have reason to attribute the effectiveness of Frodo’s curse to his ability to would the ring; his power over Gollum is much more clearly connected to Gollum’s oath, which he swears *by the ring.* Even earlier Frodo somewhat presciently warns him of what Frodo might command him to do and that he would be forced to obey: “You swore a promise by what you call the Precious. Remember that! It will hold you to it; but it will seek a way to twist it to your own undoing. Already you are being twisted. You revealed yourself to me just now, foolishly. Give it back to Sméagol you said. Do not say that again! Do not let that thought grow in you! You will never get it back. But the desire of it may betray you to a bitter end. You will never get it back. In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Sméagol!’”

[@johnh6524]

@@TolkienLorePodcast "If I, WEARING IT, WERE TO COMMAND YOU, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Sméagol Where does Gollums promise and Frodo's influence through the power of the ring begin and end? In the two towers we also have: "He knew that the Ring would only betray him, and that he had not, even if he put it on, the power to face the Morgul-king - NOT YET." Two points here one is that Frodo is insightful about the ring, the other is the word yet. Frodo is aware that his will is strengthening vs the ring. I argue that as he becomes more powerful he simultaneously becomes more vulnerable to the power of the ring.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Frodo specifically connects his comment to Gollum’s oath, so at best we have no evidence that it’s just his own exertion of will. As for the Witch King, he is completely enslaved to the Ring as well, and Frodo may be deluding himself as to his ability to face him.

[@timtruelove7214]

Frodo and the average hobbit doesn’t have the desire to dominate. Everyone else might if possessing it. That said it does show the tiny bit of bad character in the ring bearers

[@stevethepirate2875]

One thing I've noticed is not talked about on any lore channels. On Pelennor Fields, at the sight of King Théoden fall, there is ... most likely buried in dust, one of the Nine. It took dragon fire to destroy one of the rings of power. or the fires of Orodruin, Mount Doom. So, unless one of the other Nazgul recovered it, it's there. Now it was weakened when the One Ring was destroyed, as the others were, but for a while there that was a ring that could have been used. And it was designed to grant power to the person wearing it. That man would eventually fall under the sway of Sauron, true, but that wouldn't be instant. Not unless Sauron had the One ring. What happened to that ring?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Somewhere Tolkien states or implies that Sauron actually has possession of the Nine; they weren’t actively worn by the Nazgul.

[@payday7679]

I assumed the reason he thought he couldn't is because he didn't know how to and bare in mind he was trying to give away the ring to someone who would come to the conclusion later that it need be destroyed so it likely wouldn't aid him in the slightest. I would also like to say I'm not sure the ring is gonna try and serve its maker more that it is in alignment with his will and that it would happily jump ship to a stronger but similar master

[@richardmcgowan1651]

What would be interesting to look at is would a person able to use it, would they just hand it over to Sauron so that he would become whole again. From what I gathered from the story is that the ring was "sleeping" for a long time while Sauron's spirit recovered and he could build up his armies again.

[@fhorst41]

Isildur was able to curse the people of the mountains, the Dunharharrow, that broke oath.The curse made their spirits remain unable to find peace upon death and they ceased to bear children. Being a mortal, the power to curse the Dunharharrow did not directly come from him, but from Iluvatar. But the fact that the curse followed exactly the form layer out by Isildur implies that, at the very least, the creator God of Middle Earth paid attention to his words and deeds. The ring was not his yet. Also, I don't think you explored the differences between how the ring responds to Bilbo and Frodo very thoroughly. Bilbo was a far less gentle and more assertive person from the beginning of his involvement than Frodo, his gentler nephew. Bilbo, who ha captured Gandalfs attention from a very young age, and who Gandalf viewed to be at least capable of burglary, was able to hear the speech of the spiders of Mirkwood while wearingthe ring. He had a slightly heightened sense of danger and a mind that was as much devious as clever in planning the escape from the Wood Elves. He also was willing to exert himself to manipulate circumstances to change outcomes, as exemplified by his concealment of the Arkenstone from Thor and handing it of as payment to Bard and Thrabduil in order to avoid a war. I submit that The One Ring uses the inate and developed characteristics of the bearer as it's basis for how it affects them. Frodo, being more a wide eyed innocent than Bilbo, had even less to work with for a magic ring into which the Dark Lord poured all his hate and malice.

[@billholder1330]

14:11 - well, specifically, Isildur says he realizes finally that his will is not strong enough to dominate the ring and bend it to his will - instead, he finds it bending him to its will - so yeah, same effect - he realizes he can't use it. But I think this is when he realizes it must be destroyed, since it can't be wielded for good.

[@wescobb8071]

Question for a future video: why do the Nazgul obey Sauron while he is dispossessed of the One? And why could they be trusted to safely deliver it to him in the event they had taken it from Frodo? Wouldn’t they also be corrupted by it as other bearers of rings of power would be?

[@RobRoss]

3:50 I think Galadriel would know this because she herself is wearing a Ring of Power, and is aware when the One Ring is being used.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

But then Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond would have all known Saruman was wrong about what happened to the Ring since Gollum used it.

[@RobRoss]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Good point.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

Galadriel and Gandalf are both fully capable of using it. But it would also change and corrupt them, effectively turning either into a someone just like Sauron. Both of them are fully aware of what would happen which is why they shun it.

[@brucetucker4847]

There are really two separate questions here - who can use the full power of the Ring, and who has the strength of will to not only use it, but to turn it from Sauron's service to their own rather than eventually becoming enslaved by it. Tolkien said in a letter that Gandalf was probably the only one in Middle-earth who had that power, because he was of the same order (Maiar) as Sauron. I don't recall whether he directly addressed Saruman but I think Saruman had already been corrupted to the point where the Ring would be able to enslave him.

[@oleksii4431]

Amazing video, thank you.

[@donavandwelch]

Don't forget the sons of Elrond. Who's lineage is of the greatest of elves and men.

[@mattabraham6369]

Saruman talking to the Nazgul in the Hunt for the ring could be relevant. Also in relationvto controling orcs, remember the effect of the ring on their perception of Sam in Cirith Ungil?

[@brianc9374]

He used it to curse Gollum....which led to the rings own destruction.

[@revanofkorriban1505]

Someone a while ago pointed out an interesting passage in Flight to the Ford. Frodo tells the Nazgûl to halt, and they actually do so, for a moment. It’s up for debate whether this was Frodo unconsciously using the Ring to exert a slight control over them.

[@JohnDoe-jy7sv]

I wonder if Sauron had any better knowledge of what others could do with the Ring. He, of course, knew it better than anyone else, but I could imagine that he wouldn’t have given much thought to what others could do with it, since he surely never imagined he would lose it.

[@johns1625]

He built several failsafes into it for this purpose. It can't be willingly destroyed. It can't be willingly surrendered. It changes size and weight to escape the finger of others and it only uses it's bearer as a bridge to return to the hands of it's master. He can see the mind of it's bearer and the Ringwraiths can see it from afar when it's worn. It makes me wonder why Sauron didn't seem worried about the Witch King trying to steal it should they get it back from Frodo. But since he is wholly ignorant of good he had no way of knowing that the least likely creatures could do some of these. Bilbo and Samwise successfully surrendered it. But even Frodo could not destroy it, nor could anyone else.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@johns1625 The Nazgul were so utterly enslaved to Sauron's will that even having the Ring wouldn't make them able to disobey him. That's why they were the only servants he fully trusted to obtain it or even to know exactly what it was - hence his rather vague orders to the orcs to bring him every object down to the least trinket they found on any Hobbit. Even then I doubt any orc would be able to surrender it willingly, but it wouldn't be much trouble for Sauron or one of the Nazgul to take it from an orc once they knew the orc had it.

[@rimservices]

I hope to watch one day your video on Isildur and "Numenor magic" we saw in indestructible Orthanc or entire people's fea cursed for millenia at the stone of Erech - I do agree person capable of such deed (unless we treat him purely as a weapon of doom) has better qualifications to deal wiith the One Ring than Aragorn

[@someguy4405]

It grants him the power of command over Golum at the end of the last book, where it causes him to appear like a great lord clothed in white.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I think his power over Gollum has more to do with Gollum’s oath.

[@someguy4405]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Possibly, but I remember The Ring shining in his hand during that part.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Well yeah, the Ring’s power of Gollum is active there, but it’s at least in part because Gollum swore his oath “by the Ring.”

[@someguy4405]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Ah, I see. It could easily be that, but I wasn’t aware oaths had any special powers in Tolkien’s world, besides oaths to Illuvatar.

[@brendantuthill6491]

I think it's worth noting that Gollum doesn't literally fall under Sauron's control, but continues making more or less his own decisions about protecting the ring and living his life

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Because Sauron didn’t have the Ring.

[@brendantuthill6491]

@@TolkienLorePodcast right, but if someone else has the ring, then Sauron doesn't have it, inherently. Thinking specifically about the point regarding whether or not someone could effectively wield the ring, I think it's a clear yes.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Did you watch the video? Because it’s not a simple yes/no question. 😂

[@madsibsgaard6374]

The ring would be very dangerous indeed, on the hand of Aragorn! Think of Aragorn, that could cower another person with his willpower alone! Or the inherit love, awe and respect, all that meet him felt for him, despite his “Shaggy” appearance. The way he could show his hidden strength and majesty, if he wanted to. All this the ring would increase and magnify, Even without Aragorn actually using the ring! Yes, the ring was in Mordor when it scared the Orc, Clutched to the breast off Sam.. But think if it was Aragon, that had held it for his own!?

[@dougfoust117]

I think Galadriel knew how many times frodo put on the ring on because she was wearing one of the elven rings herself. They know when Sauron puts it on. I would think her, Gandalf and Elrond knew whenever anyone put it on.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

But no one knew Gollum had been putting it on, so that doesn’t work.

[@benthomas7629]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Maybe they actually did sense it when Gollum was putting it on, but at that time they did not realise what the reason for that sensation was?

[@benthomas7629]

By the way, very elucidating discussion in your video as always.

[@michaelbuley3373]

@@benthomas7629 And with Gollum hiding inside a mountain, that may have also interfered with their being able to sense when he used the ring.

[@jonathanowen9917]

I think the three elves who had great rings knew Sauron had put on the One Ring because from the start it was his intention to bend wills to his and to control them. He was already trying to dominate and rule over them and they were terrified and hid the three elven rings. Gollum probably wasn’t sensed by Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf because “even the maker [Sauron], when his power had begun to grow again, could learn nothing of it.” Gollum used it to find secrets to blackmail other hobbits with and to bite their feet. Then he moved on to stealing eggs from nests and catching fish with invisible hands. Finally after ages alone in the dark, his heart had grown black and he murdered goblins and tried to kill and eat Bilbo, but the ring betrayed him because it wanted to leave from beneath the Misty Mountains and return to its master, Sauron. Gollum wasn’t really using it to dominate and rule over the hobbits as a king/god, he was a much lower level evil, content to blackmail, steal, and murder. I think that it just wasn’t registering on a level like that of Sauron’s wielding of his master ring. This is why Gandalf could be troubled but clueless about the true nature of the ring until he had researched it in Minas Tirith and traveled across Middle Earth seeking out the truth. If Galadriel and Elrond had sensed the ring’s use by Gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo they would probably have sent a significant force to recover it from them at the Misty Mountains or the Shire. It is only at the Council of Elrond that the plan to destroy the ring is formulated and a fellowship joined for this purpose.

[@waltonsmith7210]

Saruman was able to control orcs. Maybe that's what his own homemade ring was for.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Control? Or just influence and order around? I don’t think we have evidence of the former.

[@tuorofgondolin8235]

At the very least, Saruman's Voice was a well-known quality he has always possessed. Gandalf was well-aware of it, and I suspect Saruman could use it to control Orcs.

[@AwooPatrol]

Perhaps Galadriel and the other ring bearers are able to perceive when someone puts on the One Ring and that's how she knew how many times Frodo put on the ring.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Then they would have known it was still around from Gollum using it.

[@siimtokke3461]

As I understand: - Sauron came to the elves in disguise and helped Celebrimbor make the 16 rings of power. Later known as lesser rings. - In that formula (of the lesser rings) was to make the wearer more susceptible to mind control. And mind control is Sauron's main power. - Celebrimbor tinkered with that formula and made 3 more powerful rings. But since it still was Sauron's formula the mind control was still in (since no one but Sauron knew it was in there). - Sauron made the One Ring and which is connected to all of the other rings. - When Sauron put on the One Ring the elves (who at that point had all 19 rings) sensed it and resisted his mind control and took off said rings. So it wouldn't be out of the question that Galadriel (one of the most powerful elves) could sense when the One Ring is used. So she knows that Frodo has used the ring 3 times. And Galadriel wears one of the 3 rings, so she definitely should sense if the One Ring is being used.

[@davidplowman6149]

We should remember that one hobbit terrified orcs without even having to put the ring on. Do not come between Samwise and his master! Of course, the One Ring is ill suited to hobbits. It’s main purpose is domination and control which is the exact opposite of a hobbits nature. It can’t corrupt them quickly because it doesn’t have much to offer them.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

I'm curious about what would have happened if Smaug had taken the ring from Bilbo.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

He would have ate it.

[@brucetucker4847]

I don't think Tolkien ever decided exactly what dragons were (i.e. fallen Maiar like the Balrogs or just intelligent beasts without souls), so it's not clear whether they could use the Rings or what effect they'd have had on them. Given that three of the Seven were destroyed by dragon fire, that seems to me to indicate that dragons had no use for them.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

@@brucetucker4847 I believe that in the Silmarillion he stated that Morgoth"poured much of his own might" into dragons in the process of creating them, so I doubt they were Maiar as Balrogs needed no such enhancements from him. I think they were some type of fell beast that he modified with his magic. Once he was defeated, the strength of later generations began to dwindle, with Smaug being the last of the "great dragons". At least that's what I remember.

[@marieroberts5458]

I am going to have to break up my comments...I'm busy making supper. 1st comment. Only saw a few comments, but people seem to be forgetting the only other two persons who could potentially wield the Ring: Glorifindel and Ciradan. Glorifindel slew Balrogs, died, was reincarnated and sent back, he was so badass that the Witch-king ran when he showed up. A power indeed. Ciradan is one of the oldest living elves. He may not have seen the Two Trees, but he has done everything else. That is power.

[@jetcustomsdbz5821]

I assume it does t make everyone invisible when they put it on. That would make it weird if say Gandolf or Galadriel was invisible all the time had they ever took it for themselves. Why did it always make the Hobbits invisible immediately but sauron wasn't while wearing it?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Invisibility seems to have to do with being in the “spirit realm” (for lack of a better term), which Elves (or at least high elves) and Maiar already inhabit.

[@jetcustomsdbz5821]

@@TolkienLorePodcast ok that kinda makes sense 🤔. Thanks

[@richardh5485]

I have always felt that is one of the reasons the ringwrites were driven from weathertop was that Frodo was exercising some will over them once he became focused enough with fear

[@brucetucker4847]

They left because they thought they had already accomplished their purpose by stabbing him with the Morgul-blade, but I think it is plausible that their fear and reluctance to press the encounter to the end was amplified by his having the Ring. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Tolkien wrote that if Saruman had gotten the Ring the Nazgul probably wouldn't be able to attack him directly, but he still wouldn't actually control them and they would likely just pretend to obey him and delay him until Sauron could come and take the Ring by force.

[@anaussie213]

The ring tempts Sam with an endless garden empire and Sam thinks the rings just taking it too far and rejects it as a ridiculous idea.

[@oldmangranny5oldmangranny56]

If Frodo wore Narya, and somehow threw Sauron into the fire, The One would declare him as new ring lord?

[@jppagetoo]

I think there are only a few who could have used the ring besides Sauron. Gandalf & Saruman as powerful Istari. Galadrial as the most ancient elves (remember she is a Noldor who goes back to the light of trees). Elrond, he was part miaia, elf, and Numenorian. After those few maybe Cirdan, Glorfindal, Thranduil, and Celeborn. I am sure I left a few others of the eldar out. But not many had the will do make it serve them.

[@adamsmall5598]

It would have been disastrous for any of those named to attempt to wield the Ring, Sauron included; Not because the RIng was stronger than they, but because by its nature it is a broken tool that harms its wielder by its use.

[@jppagetoo]

@@adamsmall5598 For sure. I didn't mean to imply they could use the ring without causing as much damage as Sauron. I just believe they could have wielded it without Sauron being able to take it from them easily.

[@adamsmall5598]

@@jppagetoo Fair, And I am sure that is more the implication of the video as well. And in that case, I don't disagree necessarily with your list. I think, even so, that it is worth pointing out one of the main themes of the novel: the corrupting and self destructive influence of evil, and how using evil, even (or especially) with good intentions, is ultimately self defeating.

[@glorgau]

When Sauron put on the one ring, the wearers of the three instantly perceived it and took theirs off and hid them away. Galadriel could tell when Frodo put on the ring. Gandalf wearing another of the three perceived him and told Frodo to take it off when he was on Amon Hen. Take it off you fool!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Then how did Gandalf not know about Gollum using it?

[@wknight8111]

A problem with trying to use the ring against Sauron (or take the ring away and hide it) is that Sauron's life is tied to the ring and so long as the ring exists Sauron is effectively immortal. You could use the ring to win this war against Sauron (in the same way they won the last war) and he would be cast away and weakened, but he would return. Sauron can build strength by breeding orcs and drawing dark powers to himself, while there's a very real sense that the strength of men and especially elves is in constant gradual decline. At some point the next ring-lord would be so corrupted and weak that Sauron would be able to grow his force enough to eventually win. Especially true if the corrupting influence of the ring caused the ring-lord to do anything counter-productive in that time (hurt friendships/alliances, refuse to build/maintain a strong army, etc)

[@unclejimmy7]

3:50 It has been mentioned that the elves were aware of Sauron's attempt to dominate them. I think this is how Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf are able to know when Frodo has used the ring. Gandalf had known that Frodo had used the ring when he left the letter for Frodo in Bree.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Then why didn’t they know the Ring was still around and being used by Gollum?

[@revan6727]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Do we know for sure that Gollum actually used it? Either way, perhaps it was something they needed to actively look for, and after the first thousand or so years after the ring was lost they stopped doing that. Then Sauron came back in Dol Guldur and they started looking perhaps? There is also the possibility that the ring itself was hiding until it sensed Sauron was growing in power again.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Gollum certainly knew what the Ring did so he must have used it at some point to discover that. As for “looking for” the feeling of the Ring being used, everyone had been convinced by Saruman the Ring was inaccessible, and Galadriel wouldn’t have learned otherwise before Frodo’s first use. Also we know Bilbo used it multiple times after his adventure so Sauron’s growing strength doesn’t make sense of it either.

[@Marcus-ki1en]

Effectively? Only Sauron in the long term. So much of his essence is tied into the ring, it would ultimately corrupt any one else using it. In the end, only Sauron. Galadriel knew Frodo had put on the ring, and Bilbo as well. Remember that the Elves were aware as soon as the one ring was put on. The knew to take theirs off and not be corrupted by Sauron.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

One can use the Ring effectively in a corrupted state. Not *well* (that’s impossible by it’s nature), but certainly with great effect.

[@sbeaber]

I always thought it weird/impressive that Gandalf can take the ring and throw it in the fire at Bag End

[@evenstar1608]

The ring is inside the sealed envelope, so he can hold it.

[@istari0]

He knew the fire could not harm the One Ring.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Unlike in the movies, in the book the Ring doesn’t corrupt instantly by mere proximity.

[@sbeaber]

@@TolkienLorePodcast tell that to Smeagol

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Sméagol wasn’t instantly corrupted, he was already corrupt and the Ring just took advantage of that.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Frodo threatens that he could force Gollum to jump into fire on command. I think this may refer to a general feature of the Ring that helps you control others' will, but it may mostly prey on Gollum's pre-existing enslavement to the Ring and by extension to whom wields it

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

And his oath sworn by the Ring.

[@Strideo1]

What about the following passage? Isn't Frodo using the power of the Ring on Gollum here? "This was probably the only thing that could have roused the dying embers of Frodo's heart and will: an attack, an attempt to wrest his treasure from him by force. He fought back with a sudden fury that amazed Sam, and Gollum also. Even so things might have gone far otherwise, if Gollum himself had remained unchanged; but whatever dreadful paths ... he had trodden, driven by a devouring desire and a terrible fear, they had left grievous marks on him. He was a lean, starved, haggard thing, all bones and tight-drawn sallow skin. A wild light flamed in his eyes, but his malice was no longer matched by his old griping strength. Frodo flung him off and rose up quivering. 'Down, down!' he gasped, clutching his hand to his breast, so that beneath the cover of his leather shirt he clasped the Ring. 'Down you creeping thing, and out of my path! Your time is at an end. You cannot betray me or slay me now.' Then suddenly, as before under the eaves of the Emyn Muil, Sam saw these two rivals with other vision. A crouching shape, ... a creature now wholly ruined and defeated, yet filled with a hideous lust and rage; and before it stood stern, untouchable now by pity, a figure robed in white, but at its breast it held a wheel of fire. Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice. 'Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.' The crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes, and yet at the same time insatiable desire. Then the vision passed and Sam saw Frodo standing, hand on breast, his breath coming in great gasps, and Gollum at his feet, resting on his knees with his wide-splayed hands upon the ground. 'Look out!' cried Sam. 'He'll spring!' He stepped forward, brandishing his sword. 'Quick, Master!' he gasped. 'Go on! ... No time to lose. I'll deal with him. Go on!' Frodo looked at him as if at one now far away. 'Yes, I must go on,' he said. 'Farewell, Sam! This is the end at last. On Mount Doom doom shall fall. Farewell!' He turned and went on, walking slowly but erect up the climbing path."

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Yes, in a way, but only in the sense that he’s using its hold on Gollum and Gollum’s promise. He’s not wielding the Ring in the sense that Gandalf might.

[@agimpeterer7789]

I think the reason Isildur can't use the ring is because he wants to use it for good. However, the ring can only be used for evil, so he also suffers pain when attempting to do good. That in turn is also the reason why he couldn't command the orcs. He wants to send them away, not subdue them. Thus, anyone attempting to rule the ring will be corrupted. Since only a more wicked will can gain more power. The reason the other ring-bearers don't notice the use of the one ring is that none have attempted to use the ring's power to subdue the ring-bearers. I think Sauron was trying to subdue the Ring-bearers the first time he put on the One Ring. However, the elven rings were created without his doing and he probably had less influence over them. That's why it was immediately noticeable when he used it.

[@Agibby24]

Love the video! Hate the camera angle you use bc I always want to see what your whole shirt says haha

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I’ll eventually have a better setup lol

[@simonmorris4226]

@@TolkienLorePodcast at a guess A Wizards Staff has a Knob on the End!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

It is Gandalf if that’s what you mean. It has his line about wizards never being late. ;)

[@Lotrick]

I have a question. Could Sauron himself even weild it? Not in the old days, but during the War of the Ring? I mean, he was a ghost, a spirit, could he even put a phsysical object on his finger? Also, would a nazgul give it up to his lord if some of them managed to get it or would he try to use it himself?

[@istari0]

Sauron had a physical body during the War of the Ring; it's only in the movies that it appears he doesn't. The Ringwraiths were completely bound to Sauron's will through the One even if it was not in Sauron's possession. It's why Sauron entrusted them with the task of finding the One; he knew they literally could not betray him.

[@Lotrick]

@@istari0 Thanks! Much clearer now. Although if he had a body he probably should have guarded the mount Doom entrance. Just sit there ;p

[@rotwang2000]

@@Lotrick The last thing on his mind was somebody trying to destroy it, the Ring would do everything to return to its one true master and would make sure you could not bring up the will to destroy it. So that option did not occur to him. He just waited until some fool would try to use it and cause their own downfall.

[@rotwang2000]

Sauron controls their rings so they would be unable to resist his will, even if they had the One Ring. Since it only serves one master, the Ring would betray them very quickly.

[@michaelpadan6375]

the ring affects people according to their characteristics, hobbits are small and often unnoticed, so it makes them invisible. it may not do that to everyone

[@jayb8934]

I was under the impression that it did that to all mortals. It's not really that it makes them simply invisible, but that it basically brings the wearer into the spiritual/wraith realm. The wearer actually becomes MORE visible to beings that exist in that realm. I'm not sure that beings that already have a strong presence in the spiritual realm (ie. the Wizards or even High Elves) would turn invisible, but mortals like humans and hobbits do.

[@All-shall-say-Jesus-is-Lord]

One very interesting idea you didn't touch on at all; how would the ring effect a creature greater than a maia? What would happen is Manwe or Yavanna got the ring? Would it perhaps be more like how it affected Bobmadil? They're so powerful already that the ring is a plaything to them?

[@SmithCommaBenjamin]

What's odd is the will of the ring(Sauron) is always spoken as domineering and enslaving. But Sauron(the being) was cunning, manipulative, and deceiving. He got others to do his will not by force, but by trickery and subtle poisoning of the mind; so as the doer would think they are acting on their own accord. So, with Frodo (and Hobbits in general) being very sociable people, I think the ring would not make Frodo consciously act with malice. But it would make him more charming and charismatic and have people follow him in a fun loving nature, that would slowly turn to cruelty. Much like a cult leader (Manson, Jones, etc). The ring exemplifies the true nature of the wearer, then turns it to evil. It cannot be used for the betterment.

[@jeffnorris7592]

Not Jeff with a question: How much did Gollum put on the Ring? By the time we meet him, he's already maximally corrupted and the Ring leaves him and goes with Bilbo. He doesn't touch it again until he gets Frodo's finger, but as I recall he doesn't actually wear it. Presumably he could have used it to catch a stray goblin for dinner. I always thought his corruption was being a greedy creep who would use any method to *possess* the Ring, not a power hungry creep who would *use* it. Sorry, I've been searching for my copies of LOTR for over a year, they've got to be in here somewhere!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

We do know he used it to catch goblins, but that he didn’t use it a lot, not needing it much in the dark.

[@RicoThingol]

Great talk

[@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420]

Galadriel knows how many times he's put on the ring because she sensed it through hers Imho. Remember the elves felt Sauron put on his ring and immediately removed theirs in the Second Age. They've all been wearing and using them since his defeat and must have been feeling for that presence the whole time. I would think if anyone put on the One Ring the elven ring bearers would know again immediately and then feel it wasn't Sauron as they are familiar with his presence. Just my quick thought on how she'd know exactly how many times

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

If the keepers of the Three could sense that they would have known of Gollum using it and thus known Saruman was wrong.

[@michaelbuley3373]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Malybe not since Gollum was mostly using the ring deep under a mountain, hiding from the sun. All that rock might interfere with the Three's ability to sense Gollum putting it on. It might also explain why Sauron was looking for the ring along the Anduin instead of having Orcs look for it in their tunnels.

[@michaelsmyth3935]

4:00 Galadriel is wearing a ring.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

So? She apparently didn’t know of all Gollum’s uses of the Ring.

[@blakewinter1657]

I think the Ring might still be hot when Isildur is at the Gladden Fields. I have often wondered if, just as Gandalf ends up being 'Saruman as he should have been,' Aragorn ends up being 'Isildur as he should have been.' Because Aragorn does seem to imply that he might have inherited at least Isildur's physical strength. I wonder if Isildur saying he doesn't have the strength to wield the Ring was really him saying 'I can't wield the Ring without being corrupted by it, which would be a fate worse than death.'

[@Sarah-ok6xq]

I would submit that with respect to Galadriel and her "test" which Frodo inadvertently forces upon her, she speaks less from power analysis that her self knowledge. Her wisdom is that of the balanced man in the ancient Greek ideal. "Power level" is a bit of an odd metric for Elves and Hobbits. I would argue that is apt for men and "half-elven", then another consideration yet for Miar who would possess the One Ring. I think Tolkien comes from a traditionalist brach of the reactionary space and this might be of value in these considerations. Fine video and thank you!

[@JuliusCaesar888]

Only Gandalf and Galadriel could have actually used it I think, and of the two Gandalf would have been the more effective wearer.

[@mrmittenns5728]

I think galadriel knew he only wore the ring thrice because the wearers of the 3 elven rings can "feel" the one ring being used. Just like they instantly unequipped their elven rings of power when sauron equipped the one ring for the first time.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Then how did no one know of Gollum’s use of it? How could Gandalf have bought Saruman’s line that it had rolled down to the sea?

[@mrmittenns5728]

@@TolkienLorePodcast I have no explanation for that. Might be because of sauron itself? For most of the years gollum had the ring sauron's spirit was quite weak and it even resided in the far east for a bit so maybe the malicious "pull" from the one ring towards sauron was quite weak thus less noticable by other ringwearers. Also I vaguely remember reading somewhere that gollum wore the ring less often the longer he got it hence why bilbo could find it in the first place. Another theory could be that frodo, unlike smeagol, KNEW he was equipping the one ring. This could've had a different effect than being unaware of its true potential. But this are just 2 theories of mine. I just remembered having heard/read somewhere that the elven wearers felt something was "off" when sauron equipped the one ring for the first time hence they unequipped them hence I conclude that they can feel if a (strong-willed) being equippes the ring

[@simonmorris4226]

I think all the ring bearers can feel when the ring is used. That’s why Gandalf knew Frodo was wearing the ring when he fled from Boromir and told him to take it off.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

The Elven Ringbearers were aware of Sauron but that can easily be explained by the fact that he was directly trying to control them.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Gandalf by his own account was in “a high place” struggling in mind with Sauron, so I don’t think we have to resort to him being a ring wearer to explain that when we have good reason to think neither he, nor Elrond or Galadriel, we’re ever aware of Gollum wearing it.

[@reflectionsadisciplediscus7687]

First, and it has been mentioned already, but Frodo used the ring to curse Gullum which is what ultimately caused him to fall into the cracks of Mount Doom. So frodo had some ability to wield its power. Second, when they talk about having power of will I don't think they're talking about total power. You can have extreme power and yet be very weak-willed. Sauron feared Aragorn because Aragorn had a strong will. This is shown in the fact that Aragorn was able to take control of the palantir from Sauron. Another man with an extremely strong will was Denathor who could Master gandalf in a staring match and whom Gandalf himself said was too powerful or too strong-willed for Sauron to control.

[@stevemonkey6666]

Presumably the balrog would have the power to use the ring in some way.

[@nathanclark2600]

To be fair, Galadriel and Gandalf when they talk about wielding the ring are almost entirely speculating. Sure they know something from their use of their elven rings and can assume the one ring works similarly but no one of their power level has ever tried to use it so they really have no idea how much they could do or what the long term effects would be.

[@Endtimescoming]

She knows the same way the elves knew what Sauron had done and took off there rings, she can sense it through her ring.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

But then Gandalf would have known Saruman was wrong about the One Ring due to Gollum using it.

[@jonathanowen9917]

I would be interested in hearing what you think about Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Wight, the Watcher in the Water, and the Balrog wielding the ring. They each came in contact with the ring or Frodo bearing the ring. Would they each have become a dark lord or evil power if they had wielded the ring? Could Tom Bombadil and Goldberry have taken the ring to Mount Doom, or would they have been corrupted by the ring and drawn to its temptations? Did the quest to destroy the ring require a weak being like Frodo to see it through because a more powerful being on the level of Aragorn, Galadriel, Isildur, or Gandalf would have failed and used the ring?

[@1234andrewjacksmith]

Most likely it some awareness of the ring since they could sense it when it was first made when they wore the rings and knew Sauron plan from it at a vast distance but limited in distance due to the low level of power of Frodo and his lack of a desire to take control as well as maybe a form of being able to heal the spirt and so can sense how much he has faded by using the ring(since Elrond can cure another way of becoming a wraith) / can see the scars the rings has left on his spirit the same scars to be healed is why they are allowed west. Seeing as Sam and Frodo both also use it to scare an orc or Gollum and Sam could understand the black speech with it on Elrond and Saruman both also seem to think that they could take the ring and use it to destroy Sauron but would take his place and Gandalf does bring up that Sauron would fear that, well Saruman is more take over everything and he hasn’t been near it just studied the lore, Elrond does bring up that you need great power and will to start with and that would cause something worse to be born because the power of the ring is evil and so will make you evil. I do think Aragon could use the ring very well against Sauron since his will is strong enough to overcome Sauron’s will directly and so it is his power that would hold him back and so could claim the ring in full to turn on Sauron and claim all that he has done which is Sauron fear about the ring and a rival with it. I would say some powers with the ring are automatic just owning it is enough and others require more work, will and knowledge of it with your raw power increasing the range but even Sam with it for like a day would look like a terrible figure clad in grey though Gandalf does imply as does Galadriel that it can do more if you try so the exact limits are kind of up in the air sage for it makes it easier to locate and control the other rings(like how Frodo could see past the light that hid Galadriel ring in fitting with his level of will and power at the time) Would say that could Frodo eventually get strong enough to overtake Sauron not really due to the whole just existing becomes a chore and so hard to keep increasing his power and will at that point, you basically need enough power and will to be able to overcome Sauron before your natural lifespan is up and remain somewhat focussed on that, you can push it a bit if your will is much stronger but every extra day you remain, you will need more will to keep going

[@thunder_bug_1451]

You know there are two beings you don’t mention here, who absolutely could have claimed the ring under slightly different circumstances, who almost certainly would have been able to overtake Sauron. Durin’s Bane and Smaug

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

How would a dragon use it?

[@thunder_bug_1451]

@@TolkienLorePodcast the ring resizes to fit the wearer, I’m sure he could place it on a tooth or claw. Or perhaps it could be embedded in that hollow in his breast. Dragons are far more than beasts in tolkiens world, and Smaug is one of the great dragons. He is clearly covetous and strong, and while he has not directly tried to I don’t doubt he would be able to dominate the minds of others.

[@steveashlearnerturner]

I realise I'm late on this but I want to put forward another character, a character that was from my understanding, up-powered by Eru-Iluvitar himself. A character that has directly fought Maiar. A character that has run off the Nazgul on his own. Lord of the House of Golden Flower Glorfindel.

[@HeleneFlame11]

May be Isildur's hesitation to use the ring to control the orcs is also a ring induced fear...? He doesn't give an impression of being an indecisive guy.

[@wobh688]

Good exploration. I like your point about ring-induced delusions of grandeur. If Galadriel is resisting one by her mirror, I think it could be fitting to consider Gandalf resisting one by the fire in Bag End. Also, it's not clear to me that the wizards, in their incarnated forms, are quite as powerful as the senior high elves (Galadriel, Elrond, Glorfindel, Cirdan, etc). Their mission is limited and the powers they bring with them are likewise reduced to fit the mission. It's probably a complicated matter, though, with different power levels in different domains with the Wizards providing complementary powers, not necessarily more of them. I like to read it this way, to explain Gandalf's frequent impatience and frustration, and I think it informs Saruman's fall, as well.

[@analoghabits9217]

Lelouch's feats definitely show he could be a ringlord. Light is solidly a second tower.

[@danwylie-sears1134]

I'm not a serious fan: I've probably even confused some stuff from the movies with actual canon. But my impression is that Aragorn is probably the one Sauron was most worried about. Aragorn fought Sauron directly, mind to mind, via the palantir, and won. That was on favorable terrain, because he was the rightful owner of the palantir. But Middle Earth could be seen as favorable terrain too, as Aragorn was rightful heir to a throne there. Gandalf could become Gandalf the White, but it seems more in line with his nature to be Gandalf the Grey. He doesn't command anyone, let alone dominate the minds of others. He has enough power, but not the right kind. Insofar as Galadriel rules among her people, she's more suited to wield the One Ring.

[@mukkaar]

Orcs are ultimately morgoth's servants, Sauron one of his great commanders. So really I think command over orcs is more of an authority vested in him. Ring on other hand could just make them execute his will better. I don't think ring would actually give someone like Gandalf for example ability to actually command orcs armies. Maybe he could forcibly use ring to do so for some amount, but it would be total waste and ineffective.

[@logtothebase2]

I always understood, maybe incorrectly that Sauron would have just controlled corrupted Frodo through the ring as he had grown in power even since he was evicted from Dol Guldur, and the ring got nearer to its master.

[@jasonhare8540]

I thought the explanation was in the book unless I'm wrong . The ring grants powers based on the wearers personality and nature . It is still however its own entity and is not to be trusted.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

But the ability to use it isn’t clearly defined. Yes your innate strength affect your ability to wield it, but what does that mean concretely?

[@jasonhare8540]

@@TolkienLorePodcast It means like any tool if you don't know how to use it it's best left alone . That's how you lose a finger in real life and that's how you lose your mind in a fantasy novel

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

But that doesn’t tell us anything about who can do what with the Ring.

[@TheValarClan]

I will have to double check but I think at the end of the Lord of the rings there is a little bit of a discussion by Tolkien about what if? Like Samwise would probably last the longest and turn water into a garden. But he would become corrupt in the end also. And stuff of that nature. I think it does have Aragorn…. but each ending with the becoming corrupt. Because the ring would slowly whisper into your ear shall we say little by little putting doubt into your actions and suggesting Evil acts or things not in their best interest until the voices become equal to your own.

[@willclevett7560]

Interesting that you point out the ring diminishing the power of wielders over time. I expect this would only apply to mortals; as even the Valar were not granted to extend life indefinitely, I doubt such a power is possible for Sauron. Hence, Bilbo feeling stretched beyond his years. I expect an immortal such as an elf lord or Maiar would not suffer that diminishing, but still be gradually corrupted by the will & malice of Sauron, which is ultimately the source of the power within the ring.

[@andygreen7314]

The thing is no one could use the ring and destroy Sauron, they may be able to supplant him for a time but in doing so just become some other sort of corrupt tyrant. But ultimately given that Saurons power/essence is embedded in the ring he would remain an ever present threat able to rise again and again and would never cease working to regain ownership of the ring. He has nothing but time until the breaking of Arda to do so.

[@skatemetrix]

Farmer Maggot could do it... But I'd probably say Gandalf could, and maybe Aragorn or Galadriel depending on their willpower.

[@radagast7200]

Haha. That's exactly what I said. Maggot is the only one.

[@Vandervecken]

So I wanted to ask a question in the thread below about why Sauron can carry the ring after Numenor but not after the Last Alliance, but for some reason I can't post there....Anyway, how do we know Sauron took the Ring to Numenor? All I can find in the Silmarillion is: "There he took up again his great Ring in Barad-dur, and dwelt there, dark and silent, until he wrought himself a new guise, an image of malice and hatred made visible; and the Eye of Sauron the Terrible few could endure" which is just after his spirit returns to ME from Numenor. Not that it is sure one way or the other, but this sounds more like he left the ring in Barad-Dur.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Pretty sure it’s in a letter, which I need to hunt down. KZbin may be holding your comment for review for some reason; it does that sometimes for no apparent cause….

[@Vandervecken]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Turns out it was one of my ad blockers. They go wonky sometimes and you just have to turn them off and on one at a time to find which one is messing you up...so this is interesting. The one illustration I can find from Tolkien himself of Sauron looks like it is Sauron stretching out his right hand. It does look like Tolkien wants to emphasize the ring with this, else why make the illustration an outstretched arm at all---ie, what else makes sense in the context of Sauron's existence? (You can see he was practicing arms in this illustration). The hand is formed into almost a talon-like shape, but I would guess the idea is that Sauron is "brandishing" his ring. ...Anyway this would suggest the right hand for the ring, not the traditional left middle finger. Although the Prof doesn't seem to have been much of an artist, and since this is clearly a practice drawing he might not have been trying to make any statements about rings and fingers, but to just do what was easiest for him. Oh and I do remember that letter now, about Sauron taking the ring to Numenor--it was something where he says something about he is sure Sauron has the strength for this task or something like that right? Too bad, I prefer it the other way as well as several other posters do. But it is what it is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauron#:~:text=Appearance-,Physical%20body,a%20watercolour%20illustration%20of%20him.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

When he had the time he could actually do pretty decent illustrations. Not master level, but better than your average person off the street. I forget if this one in particular has a specific context though; is it for when Barad-dûr falls at the end of LOTR?

[@Vandervecken]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Oh you're right, and it makes more sense as that too, Sauron in the sky after the ring is destroyed. I can't pin it down but there is no disagreement among people on this. Must be in one of the art books. Anyway the drawing tells us nothing then. Thanks Prof T.

[@Soloong_Gaybowzer]

I think any of the Maiar could wield the ring effectively considering that they are the same type of entity that sauron is. I think any of the higher elves who immigrated from valanor could potentially do so as well. But I think every single person who attempted to do so would be corrupted by sauron's greed, wrath and his desire to dominate and control.

[@danielsime911]

In the scenario where someone did claim the ring and defeated Sauron is there really any victory to be had. Sauron isn't bound to a physical form so I feel like you'd have to keep seeking him out and destroying him every thousand years whenever he takes shape again.

[@-yeme-]

I suppose you could call this an alternative reading, and I'm not sure Tolkien would approve, but I often wonder if even Sauron could effectively wield the Ring. Did the Ring itself bring about Sauron's fall, the way it betrayed and destroyed everyone else who tried to use its power? Even though he made it, could he truly control it? The Ring has a will; is that will an extension of Sauron's will, or does it have a true will of its own, to dominate anyone who would exploit it, including its own maker? He put only the worst parts of himself into the ring, his evil, cruelty, his urge to dominate and control. We are not told that he put any of his positive qualities, which he did possess in abundance, his patience, his caution and so on. Did he create something so pure and distilled that bringing about the destruction of its wearer was the only thing it could do, no matter how long it took, or what lengths it must go to, or who that wearer was? Everyone, even Gandalf, thinks the Ring is trying to return to Sauron, but what if its really trying to return to Mount Doom, exactly as it does, and at every stage of it's history it is precisely where it wants to be? In short, is the whole story of The Lord of the Rings the story of how Sauron's own creation destroyed him, and the labyrinthine path it took to do so? Sauron thought he created the Ring as a tool he could use to achieve his goals but ultimately of course, events were shaped by a different design: And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me.