Who Is My Tennis G.O.A.T? Interpretation of Dune Messiah; Best Footballers Ever?! - Patreon AMA 4

[@lafarga2330]

I'm happy to see this series return

[@mrvacepadrva81]

A long-time sports fan here. I've been blessed to have seen the likes of Maradona, Platini, van Basten among others play in their prime, and to have watched almost every single match of their illustrious careers. My work, punditry for the biggest sports channel in my country, has given me a fairly unique perspective on the main sports I follow, those being MMA, basketball, and football in that order in terms of the depth of my knowledge. I have to mention my data heavy bias here since I work with advanced stats daily now and have a background in stats. Like Duncan, I've been obsessed with greatness in any endeavor but particularly in sports which is probably why I enjoy and often engage in GOAT debates. Thorin made some incredibly shrewd points, such as the importance of defining terms. Greatness means different things to different people. Another point I was very pleased to hear was the inclusion of non-attacking players in the discussion. I find it practically impossible to compare outfield players to goalkeepers, so I usually evaluate and rank them separately. Duncan is right, not mentioning CR7 in the GOAT discussion is silly as is dismissal of his case because he definitely has one of the best cases. Unfortunately, what most people miss about Messi's case is the fact that he is actually more prolific than CR7 in terms of scoring. If you took quite literally half of all of Messi's goals away, he still has a very strong top 3 case of all time being one of the games best passers and dribblers of all time. If you do the same for anyone else, their case falls off a cliff. Messi has scored more goals per minute and has made more total goal contributions than Ronaldo in notably fewer games (Messi is younger). Messi beats Ronaldo in almost every competition when it comes to goals per minute and they were together in LaLiga, UCL, and both Spanish cups for a long stretch of their careers. Ronaldo has one significant edge on Messi, that being UCL trophies (and by extension club world cup), where he leads by one. That's unfortunately the only one. There is a reason almost every pundit, expert, player who played with and/or against them ranks Messi as their GOAT. The man has had one of the craziest peaks (in fact, it's very difficult to pinpoint his peak), insane longevity, every throphy and individual accolade under the sun. There is also the eye test, just watch the diminutive Argentine play. He is magic on the pitch and has rarely, if ever (and I mean that literally), taken nights off. I honestly struggle to find a definition of greatness where Messi doesn't have a robust, unassailable case.

[@Animus141]

Anytime we're 2 mins into a video and thooorin is shadowboxing like 9 strawmen at a time it's going to be an absolute banger. Fantastic stuff, thanks for doing these.

[@toniskug6983]

I swear to god the point about zidane is exactly my opinion and im born 06 love all your videos and hope there will come more of these

[@glenn1974]

Timestamp about zidane?

[@toniskug6983]

8:06 - 9:30 about Zidane but the whole beginning is the football discussion

[@Rupi57]

Wow, as a huge Peter Schmeichel Fan, I love that he is mentioned in the GOAT debate!

[@BobSasZele]

Very high concentration of topics/metatopics that are of high personal importance to me. Much appreciated to the question senders and to Thorin, as usual.

[@szabel.]

just finished Dune Messiah myself gonna be cool to hear your interpretation

[@umarismail7807]

I think the video idea you mentioned about cultivating intuition would be a brilliant video that could help many people in their own lives, myself included. Keep up the great work!

[@tylermann8769]

The way you feel about Schmeichel is similar to how I feel about Manuel Neuer (even down to not liking the team or fans) as primarily a German football fan. Just pure dominance from the goalkeeper position for a decade plus

[@Casper_Cadence]

I hope to see more of these in the future!!

[@ninjafingaz7704]

idk how thorin is so consistently entertaining so frequently over such a long period shits actually impressive

[@szabel.]

55:53 if that is actually the interpretation that person has watched too much anime and read too few books 😭😭 to me it was obvious there was tremendous inner turmoil and finding of self and i thought the way the book ended was awesome with how they tied it back into the Fremen ancient tradition that even in his godlike state even he has to abide by their tradition, or at least wants to be remembered as having done that, loved it and starting the next one soon

[@countlessbathory1485]

I didn’t understand most of your football rant but it was great to listen to.

[@szabel.]

41:25 about learning lessons once and finally vibes for me, i had to learn the hard way with many things but especially women/relationships for a long time before i did learn, and accepting love and a real connection is refreshing.

[@PaulRamen]

GG on the thumbnail work

[@MoneyMakerD0g]

After watching the first segment: Richard Lewis and Thorin LFN Sport football show please.

[@DREAMWORKERSKY]

love it when Thorin talks football

[@szabel.]

i agree 22:40 that everything should have the capacity to make you reconsider your beliefs / opinions outside of your defined core identity and values. i think that is a hallmark of learning / emotional maturity as an adult and critical thinker.

[@josephadcock7449]

God the discourse on dune online right now hurts my brain so much we need a thorin vs modern dune takes😭

[@DMOND-qg2cg]

Great video! Football always seemed to be the only sport where my and your perception of who the goat, is differed greatly. So its great to finally have a piece of content where you eloborate on cr7 being the goat. I must say i am not quite convinced yet but it has made me realize that the desicion isnt nearly as clear as i thought. Very interesting point on the goal inflation in laliga.

[@-ev1l562]

Daddy’s back

[@RPT369]

Man like Thorin

[@edmonddantes-91]

Glad this series is back! Some of my favourite content of yours.

[@1dustbranch111]

58:30 fuck I love this obvious but 100% true point

[@NumberrrOneee]

Ronaldinho should be in the conversation for best footballer 100%

[@MitsuoRLCoach]

The psychological technique described around 37:00 is a very topical thing involved in the ecosystem of higher level competition/sports/gaming, especially for someone like me who is taking on roles like coach and teacher for certain esports, because it seems no matter how driven, how mature, how immature or what mindset people have outside of the game they definitely are way too harsh on every individual inside the lobby or scrim or ranked game. You would think that someone who's trying to compete and win ranked matches would understand and empathize when another player fails or makes mistakes but they truly don't. Thorin's right on how people's judgements aren't dealt out with the same credence as they are with their judgement towards themselves. This is called self-bias and humans just seem to do this almost every day of their lives. It's interesting to research where self-biases occur the most and why people's brains are configured to behave or think this way. I want to try and teach my viewers, students and players that this stuff has to stop if you're trying to grind to compete at a higher level of competition. Your constant blaming and how harsh you are of other people's failings is absurd. Everyone fails before they succeed.

[@FailMachineInc]

always like these

[@Nathan-hs2ut]

Banger banger

[@EvilKookie]

To your point about communism, there's something I'd like to briefly comment on. I believe what you describe about utopias being a place of fantasy is absolutely correct, because, like you've said earlier in the video, people have a tendency of getting stuck in their own point of view, and accordingly what they may consider a utopia is a utopia only for them. However, in my view, the historical experience of communism as well as the theory of it (e.g.: Engel's Socialism: Utopian and Scientific comes to mind as an example) demonstrates that what communists seek to accomplish is not realize their own vision of a utopia, but to liberate people's ability to produce things and make money, and to give people breathing room to figure those things out. Thanks for the video. I'm glad you're making more of them.

[@szabel.]

the point at 01:02:00 is why i always viewed the bene gesserit as PR /HR people in addition to a religious eugenics class cult lolol

[@EntrEsprit]

Virtus Pro is a better analogy for Djokovic than Nadal, they aren't "the spirit and heart" kind of guys, but they have a great mental fortitude

[@stefus488]

Thanks a lot for the video! Some footballtakes i probably dont agree with. Schmeichel probably not as good as neuer and buffon. Shearer is really good but probably not as good as a suarez who didnt get mentioned and had prbly THE best pl season any player has had with liverpool, being the at the time all time top scorer WITHOUT TAKING PENALTIES IN A BAD LIVERPOOL TEAM. Love the maldini mention and the zidane take. Great video thanks!:)

[@jus_danny]

The thing is Pele, Maradona and Messi are not just goal scorers they do everything, reason why Ronaldo is often below those 3 in most list , I can say he is the greatest goal scorer ever as for talent he does not come close to those 3

[@arthurnunes7184]

thats it.

[@reinaldolira5211]

to be fair Ronaldo R9 had thyroiditis and almost broke his knee. He COULD BE GOAT but RIP.

[@CalippoShots]

Djokovic is the most complete of the 3. Nole is the most talented ever and the most entertaining to watch. Nadal holds the greatest feat in sports history: 14 Roland Garros is absolutely absurd

[@ihaze8794]

Im sorry but Messi is the goat, and it is quite easy. This idea that Ronaldo is a cheatcode that can score any kind of goal infuriates me. Ronaldos most goals in a calendar year was 69. Messi's was 91, whilst also being more creative, and doing more dribbling

[@CalippoShots]

Anyway, I feel like the football debate is always fun and interesting, but just useless at the end of the day. It's the same as with basketball: you can tell MJ is the GOAT because the vast majority of the greatest players in history say so, and no way you understand the game better than them. Same thing happens with Messi. No coach, no player will tell u Ronaldo is better than him. Tennis on the other hand is a much more interesting one. Lots of people deciding between Nole, Roger and Rafa still to this day, and honestly the 3 options are totally valid.

[@oatb]

If you consider Zizou in the goat conversation then you are probably overating him as a player, he had great moments but lacked consistency and discipline. There was no doubt he was majestic player but not in the class of effectiveness as the other players you mentioned.

[@CatnamedMittens]

Eye test

[@EntrEsprit]

Federer the GOAT frfr

[@schmeed0000]

thank you for explaining why zywoo can never be the goat))

[@gameplayerbr4962]

Football fans don't know what greatness is. Messi is obviously one of the "best" ever, but greatness? This is a guy who played his whole career under the Barcelona positional system - a system that's been adopted for decades by them even in youth divisions, basically the only club to have that. He turned up at big games in the beginning of his career, but once Guardiola left him he was embarassed every year in the Champions League (except 2015 when Neymar carried the team). He'd play well in the comfort of Camp Nou, but at the away (decisive) game he'd vanish and watch his team be embarassed by Juventus, Roma, Liverpool, Bayern, PSG etc. Ronaldo at a dysfunctional Juventus team at least scored in the decisive legs against Ajax and Lyon, also carried United out of groups by himself too. In 2015 he scored in both legs against Juventus. With the national team Messi was always mediocre, Copa America is a joke of a cup and they even did it yearly for a bit to try and give him a trophy but he got denied by freaking Chile. It was only when Brazil stopped caring and the other SA NTs became bad that he won his first trophy, and even then choked an easy goal in the finals. Then came the World Cup and conveniently Argentina got 5 penalties in 7 games, something that had never happened before - keep in mind that countries like Brazil and Portugal were denied of penalties against Croatia and Morocco respectively that looked way clearer than any of Argentina's penalties. They also had a free path to the semis because the draw made sure they'd face Australia (trash) and Netherlands (bad for a while), meaning this World Cup was hella rigged. When he finally left Barcelona he scored 6 goals in the easiest top league, missed a penalty to eliminate PSG from the UCL, then in the following year scored 16 goals which is still bad in such weak league and went missing against Bayern in the UCL. So the point is, how can a player have so many asterisks in his resume and still be treated as the "undisputed" goat? Because he's a good boy and thus everyone loves him? That's not how it works, it's not about being your favorite player.

[@mrrockmonkey1]

Talk about discrediting Messi's achievements and downplaying everything he's done. I'd never say that his accomplishments shouldn't be scrutinised and I'd also never say that he is the undisputed GOAT, but he is absolutely in the debate and it's completely ridiculous to pretend that he's not. Statistically speaking and based on the eye test, Messi is the most exceptional attacking player of this generation. Again, I can't say he's the best ever in this regard because my knowledge is limited to the players I saw, to a certain extent. Even still, within the past twenty years or so, there hasn't been an attacking player as complete as Messi in regards to how many facets of the offense he contributes too. His goalscoring numbers at his peak were absurd, rivaling and even surpassing CR7's numbers at his peak, his vision and passing ability in the final third ranks among the best ever, his direct free kicks are incredible, his dribbling is at GOAT status and his link up play with teammates has also always been incredible. I concede that he has never really been successful outside of his 'comfort zone' though I think that point is far outweighed by the successes he achieved when those teams he played in were at their absolute peak. I don't think anyone doubts that Ronaldo is essentially the ultimate big game player but Messi has also contributed in numerous big games (not to the same extent as Ronaldo). Against Man United in 09 and 11. In 2011 they were massive favourites but 2009 was viewed as being a far more balanced final (in which both Messi and Ronaldo played of course), with Messi scoring. 2011 was more one-sided but even still, it is arguably Messi's finest individual performance and he scored Barcelona's second goal to put them back in the lead at 2-1. 2015, we know what he did against Bayern. The idea that Neymar carried Barcelona is absolutely ridiculous. That Barca team was incredible and why would it be a slight against Messi that he was able to work incredibly well with generational players like Neymar and Suarez? Bringing up the World Cup like that and implying it's fixed kind of just shows that you're only trying to demean Messi and discredit every single one of his major achievements. There's no real evidence that the World Cup was fixed or that Argentina was favoured. Are you forgetting that they had two penalties given against them in the final? They also absolutely destroyed Croatia in the semis and were fantastic against France in the final as well, up until Mbappe's heroics. And of course, Messi was also brilliant, scoring two goals and slotting home his penalty in the shootout.

[@user-br3fk8dx8o]

What a ridiculous set of statements - this is simply a bunch of conspiracy statements mixed with exaggeration

[@jus_danny]

Bullshit

[@DREAMWORKERSKY]

8 Ballon D’Ors

[@2-toner]

The elephant question in the room is if you’ll ever change the name of this channel away from side

[@probelerpropro]

Why?

[@2-toner]

@@probelerpropro potentially could surpass the “main” channel. At least I’d personally hope so

[@tnightwolf]

I am Portuguese and no, Cristiano Ronaldo (CR7) is not the best Ronaldo when compared to R9. And R9 was also better in almost every aspect than Messi and Maradona. Have you ever compared football matches from different eras?! The problem is that you don't go back enough and think he just didn't had a brazilian career in their first division and his career didn't went through PSV before Barcelona! Let's be real here, you think you're old but: how many matches of Ronaldo R9 have you ever actually seen? He was doing things to grown-ups, at the very professional top level, when he was 16/17! Just don't talk about football (specially if you think it is just about stats) you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.