Who is the lantern man in Phantom of the Opera?

Extreme Nerdy Horror Trivia. Who is the lantern man who appears in the beginning of the silent public domain Lon Chaney classic Phantom of the Opera? Also a comparison between the 1925 version, the 1929/30 sound version, and the two reconstructed versions that exist today. #retro #retrogaming #nes #snes #jamesrolfe #mikematei #atari #playthrough #gameplay #gamereview

[@BRATwoNerdsShow]

After the cardboard video, I realized that I will watch pretty much anything if James Rolfe is in it.

[@halfdemented]

James genuinely loves this stuff. It's hard not to get into it when he does it.

[@RoshDroz]

I realized that a long time ago. He's just a huge nerd with an encyclopedia for a brain of shit you didn't know you cared about until he starts talking about it. He's so much more than the AVGN and I'm so happy he's gotten to share that into 2017 and beyond.

[@DOSRetroGamer]

I don't understand... This kind of video is clearly more valueable than playing some obscure nes games. Those are the ones I purely watch for James and Mike.

[@Entropy3ko]

Well to be fair it's interesting if you like movies especially old movies. It's like analyzing a detail in a painting.

[@nofrillsreviews9138]

Facts.

[@michaelbreidenbach2834]

Maybe the lantern man supposed to do the same Edward van Sloane did in his intro for Frankenstein a couple of years later. To warn the audience of the terrifying motion picture. Maybe just the title cards are missing or the were never inserted.

[@joerogers9413]

Michael Breidenbach I think you're right. The man with a lantern scene looks like some sort introduction.

[@Eidlones]

Beware audience! The Phantom is known to roam this place! Ah, there he is, hide! We were lucky this time ladies and gentlemen! Beware, for I dare not press my luck any further, you shall be on your own!

[@Sarato]

Eidlones That sounds fitting.

[@kingofrapture]

Eidlones Omg that was perfect, lol

[@dkupke]

Have you ever read the book? There is a scene with a rat catcher that I can believe the lantern guy was based off and just got dropped from various releases.

[@Novasky2007]

I can tell you when i saw a version as a young kid, word cards came up "Who goes there?" "Oh its you, Well if your coming we'd best keep hushed tones lest the Phantom hears. "He's Here! Here he comes now! Hide !" "That was close" Or some such dialogue

[@eduardolarrymarinsilva76]

How old are you? :O

[@Novasky2007]

Not as old as you think lol There were 3 channels on TV in the UK back then so I watched all the old movies during daytime television.

[@eduardolarrymarinsilva76]

@@Novasky2007 Ah, so you didn't hear the original lines.

[@Novasky2007]

Silent movie boards were added to the scene. i guess i will never know who or why they were added or since lost. But i watched that version lots of times. One of my favourites as a child. I was an odd child.

[@ChaseMC215]

makes sense.

[@kmichael9787]

Stuff like this is why James is one of the best entertainers on the internet!

[@pikewerfer]

true

[@Tyyeguyisoncrack]

Him or James a janise

[@TheGrandSilence]

Weeell there is a man with a lantern in the book, the rat catcher but he has nothing to do with the phantom, he just gets mistaken for the phantom from time to time because his lantern inlluminates his face an makes it look like a burning skull/head. And if I remember things right, he wanders around in the lower levels of the opera in the absolut dark. It would still be odd for the rat catcher to be right at the start. He showed up once in the book und was only mentioned one more time.

[@morgangobin9985]

DaemonenprinzessinXD I think the rat catcher showed up later in the film when the Persian and Raoul try to get into the Phantom’s lair. I don’t remember him showing up at the beginning, though.

[@TheGrandSilence]

Sadly I never watched this film, but when the rat catcher shows up than the lantern guy in the beginning really is random.

[@Safersephiroth777]

Nice info man.

[@JuanHerrero]

und? Deutsch much?

[@hunter1586]

If he wanders in the dark what’s he need the lantern for

[@Nicholasryan17]

Absolutely love these examinations of odd moments in old film! Things many of us might never have given a second thought yet you manage to delve so deep into them.

[@JamesDean-nx2nq]

Nicholasryan17 yet this caught me. Comment caught me off guard

[@KalloSkull]

Everything seems to point to the lantern man being in the '25 version, since there's even a close-up of him. I assume the intertitles were just lost for the scene when it was being reconstructed in both versions. Clearly he wasn't meant to speak directly to the audience, since there's a shot of him looking off-screen and talking. It's probably just your everyday "before the opening title" scene, to set the mood. And the man is probably saying something like "Who's there?" or something. Also, the image quality of the '29 version is far better, but honestly, the poorer image quality, the angles and the overall acting in the '25 version looks way creepier imo.

[@Powerman293]

"To get two film negatives, they decided to use two cameras next to each other" Glad to know that Tommy Wiseau got his idea for his camera rig from 1920s hollywood.

[@sergiowinter5383]

What did you expect? He is the best modern film director

[@D2MightyDucks]

You know what they say... Love is blind

[@Buttington_Headerson]

@@D2MightyDucks let's go eat ham. Everything is fine.

[@fisher3317]

@@sergiowinter5383"We make real Hollywood movie!"

[@potatofish1664]

People are always asking “Who is the lantern man?” But not “How is the lantern man?”

[@samuelbarber4154]

Potato Fish I'll do you one better, why is the lantern man?

[@waffleiron1959]

Dead

[@edgarbanuelos6472]

@@waffleiron1959 where is the lantern man? Maybe ... Maybe he owns the Giant Claw.

[@ApolloIVtv1]

He seems so scared, hope he's okay

[@Darbobski]

Drax: "Why is the Lantern Man?"

[@MrBlueSkyof1607]

My guess is it's supposed to be the mysterious Ratcatcher. It's been a while since I read the book, so I might not remember such a character in it, yet it appears in almost every adaptation.

[@hyrule9165]

You remember right! He uses a lantern in the book

[@stephaniegagne3376]

Rat catcher indeed. Or he could be Joseph Buquet. The world may never know

[@duffman18]

Please keep doing more videos like this and the cardboard one James, they're great. You have a far deeper knowledge of film history than most youtubers so it's great that you're teaching us about these things

[@CDRiley]

duffman18 I agree.

[@joseeliasfazjimenez7740]

Back in the day, as you mentioned, they used transcripts and maybe some environmental music like a piano to introduce the audience to the movie, this was more often used in foreign countries because most of the audience didn't know to read english for example. Maybe he was just moving his lips to any transcript so local theaters introduce the film it's own way to attract more people and keep them entertained.

[@TheMrRuttazzo]

On the Unholy 3 poster: *"Lon Chaney TALKS!"* This cracks me up. It's like a cheesy toy commercial: "The new Lon Chaney action figure! He even TALKS!!" :D

[@Eddietheteddie]

It reminds me of where people put face reveal in the title to get views

[@icanliveforever1243]

I wish there was a talking Lon Chaney doll.

[@sergiowinter5383]

Even better that Lou Chaney sounds like a name of a perfume.

[@itaybashan3757]

As much as I love reviews and top 10's, this kind of trying to solve mysteries in old classic horror movies are pretty good as well, and very unique and original

[@Myrelaxedlife]

These videos about old movies are my favorite content you've produced all year. Amazing work. Please do more.

[@TauGeneration]

@サンドヴィッチ I mean , it's fitting (11:12)

[@themicropenismaniac8503]

@jack36 yes

[@Dragorosso95]

I find these analysis really interesting!

[@nukelius]

The lantern man is almost definitely the Ratcatcher. He appears once in the book. He seems to know slightly more about the Phantom than everyone else, probably because he shares the sewers with him. They seem to have an understanding. The Ratcatcher is also mistaken for the Phantom once or twice, though not named; his lantern sometimes gives him the appearance of a "death's head" in the dark. There's an upload of the Eastman print here on KZbin, colorized, without the Ratcatcher scene. It _does_ feature the colorized scene of Erik on the roof.

[@thishandleisntavailable42069]

Where's my "Classic Horror Film Oddities" Cinematic Universe? They could start with the Cardboard movie, move on to the Lantern Man movie and so on.

[@daroachdoggjr5799]

the lantern man put the cardboard on the lamp

[@RexOrbis]

Already exists. It's called the Dark Universe.

[@thishandleisntavailable42069]

I was about to contradict you, but I'm pretty sure there was at least one cardboard box in The Mummy.

[@Karmy.]

Bolbi Stragnavowski and then put the cardboard lamp in the Psycho house

[@jtcob8486]

@@daroachdoggjr5799 Still be better than the dark universe.

[@Hexam9]

Since at this moment in history motion pictures were blended with theatrical elements, I just always figured the Lantern Man was addressing the audience about the movie they were about to watch, in the same way at the beginning of Frankenstein (1931) we see that guy emerge from the curtain, warning the people of the "horrors" they're about to witness.

[@Magnetron33]

Almost certainly along those lines. I would say he was filmed originally in 25.

[@iansuttle7894]

Just for the record, this and the Dracula cardboard video are easily my favourite new Cinemassacre videos this year. This is like the kind of textual scholarship on medieval literature that I would read during the more "serious" parts of the day, and I LOVE it. I hope there are more on the way.

[@thesuntitan]

Do more of this James, it's pretty cool.

[@locnar1]

He's the opera house's rat catcher in the book. The film just didn't explain who he is.

[@somethingdiffrant]

This video's title intrigued me and simultaneously endeared me to James. Such a specific topic that includes film history, gothic elements, and the cuteness of passionate nerdery.

[@classicvideogoodies]

The lantern man scene exists only in the "Blackhawk" restoration of the film, which is most often shown in the US. There is another equally notable version of the film, restored in the UK, known as the "Photoplay" version, and it does not have the lantern man scene. The two versions are mostly identical save for that scene.

[@RavenHouseMystery]

Thanks James for sharing your classic horror knowledge with us. Hope you keep making more videos like these.

[@Tommy2P]

Two cameras simultaneously? Were they trying to be Tommy Wiseau???

[@AesculapiusPiranha]

Who doesn't want to be Tommy?

[@myasshole69]

I DID NAWT HIET HER, ISNT TRUUE IS BOULLSHEIT, I DID NAWT... Oh hi Mark.

[@tomtanaka841]

Anyway, hows your sex life?

[@Kirkklan]

Haha... What a story -Mark- James.

[@sisconhimejoshi]

aw hi dawgie

[@NarokathCrimzonAE]

Delightful video, James. Keep it up!

[@SkorpTS]

Your enthusiasm always makes these videos a joy to watch. Heck, you could probably make a video about cardboard and make it entertaining.

[@williambaldwin9346]

He did.

[@VirtualBoy500]

I could listen to James talk about classic horror films for hours.

[@Headchrusherdeth]

James is becoming the vsauce of classic movies, i love it.

[@sepnot]

Hey Cinemassacre, James here!

[@Baleur]

what is a vsauce ^^

[@hmph3262]

@@Baleur vsauce is vsauce

[@theninjamaster67]

@@hmph3262 no vsauce is Micheal either that or we are supposed to be vsauce as his intro is "hey vsauce, Micheal here"

[@hmph3262]

@@theninjamaster67 thanks

[@WeirdWonderful]

The original novel has the author reffer to a person we never see on screen, and Leroux makes it a point to say how he cannot possibly reveal who it may be, and it never gets brought up again. The "shade" as it is known.

[@slendy9600]

I watched phantom of the opera a couple years back not knowing anything about and had no clue what the lantern man was about, except i assumed that it wouldve made sense to someone more familiar with old films and that i was just an uncultured idiot. Turns out no one knows what the deal is :P

[@elijahdavallos6955]

I can just imagine this conversation. You: excuse me, I have a question about an old horror film. Horror Film Expert: oh really? Go ahead, ask! You: in the beginning of Phantom of the Opera, there’s a guy with a lantern and I don’t get why he’s there. Do you happen to know why he’s there? Horror Film Expert: Shit, I don’t fucking know.

[@handsomebrick]

Since the movie was quickly edited 2 extra times before general audiences saw it, it's amazing that the movie isn't a total mess. That answers almost every possible question about the film.

[@johngalvano5895]

You idiot. You fool. How do you know know who the lantern man is.

[@Duke_Togo_G13]

*Chronologically Confused: Phantom of the Opera!*

[@tangroro]

The lantern man scene is actually disturbingly creepy

[@citizendame6329]

No it's not.

[@TheJamesAnimations]

Yeah it's really unnerving, the mystery around it only makes it even more uncomfortable

[@edgarbanuelos6472]

@@citizendame6329 don't be a bitch about it.

[@sergiowinter5383]

Even more when you realize that he is long dead

[@Shlo0p]

So it seems that the current Phantom film we all know and love is more of a Frankenstein's monster than the Frankenstein film itself?

[@lewisconroy6225]

The real reason is somebody though "haha, this 'll confuse them 90 yeas down the line!"

[@kodexi2761]

Never stop making videos James. These trivia videos are just awesome!

[@d-manthecaptain1382]

I thought The lantern Man was like the guy at the start of Frakenstein, and that they forgot to add speech cards

[@AppleCorp3]

Two cameras cranking simultaneously was sometimes the way they achieved foreign prints back then. Another method was to use the 2nd best take for scenes. There are actually quite a few silent films that only exist in their foreign versions, close enough, but not the version that US audiences saw upon release. Considering that upwards of 80%+ of all silent films are lost, I’m just happy we have something at all.

[@paulgendreau6959]

I just rewatched this film and I could be wrong but it appears that the man with the lantern at the beginning is the same man that appears later to Raoul and Ledoux in the cellars that says “I am a messenger from the shadows ~~turn back ere ye perish!”

[@OsricRexor]

James should make a podcast. I could listen to this kind of talk for hours and podcasts are so convenient

[@tbb033]

This is way more convenient for me than a podcast.

[@TheSsbcandidates]

He should go to WorldClassBullshitters.

[@jacksong6226]

It says “far beneath the magnificent paris opera house is an intricate maze of cellars used once as dungeons and torture chambers- the grim relics of an age of cruelty, intolerance and oppression.” Next title card “But who thinks of cellulars- dismal haunts of creeping things - when the Paris opera house stages a ballet?”

[@hpatss4966]

What does?

[@chuckoneill2023]

Wherever Lantern Man came from, he’s an icon now. Some one at Disney must have seen and remembered him from Phantom, to make him part of The Haunted Mansion.

[@DanielRothkopf]

That...is...one of the best videos on KZbin! Absolutely captivating mystery stuff...Thank you!

[@thelax5311]

Damn

[@patches2221]

The Lax DAMN.

[@chonkshake1237]

*DAAAMN*

[@nintendozilla9843]

dam

[@sarsona_3611]

*D a m n*

[@juno6332]

damn

[@thenostalgiafactor5023]

So they filmed the 2 versions of Phatnom '25 like Tommy Wiseau did for The Room...2 cameras side by side...what a trend setter!

[@myname7056]

The VHS I got, when lantern man appeared, had a voiceover starting, “this production was made in 1925, before the invention of sound motion picture”, & ended with, “is a tribute to cinema history.”

[@Ozyroth]

What if is actually James Rolfe. Maybe in the future he travels back in time to 1920's~ by accident and couldn't came back. So he goes to what he loves, making movies. With all of his knowledge he deliberately participated (acted, directed, etc) on this kind of movie mysteries so he would not leave a record on who he is to prevent history to be altered; making this video a time-travel loop. (Yeah i've been watching Board James lately)

[@recommendedforyou2936]

So it's possible he put the cardboard in dracula

[@queenflash2012]

James. Why are you not a Film Tutor. Your the best one I ever seen.

[@adampoole948]

james should do this as a regular series... have a episode once a month or so and name the series "Cinnemassacre's Nerdy Cinema Trivia "

[@jimblomqvist1546]

I know who he is!! It’s the rat catcher!!! He has a bigger role in the novel and he’s in the original 1925 version. 😁

[@Mr_Flerb]

How do you know he’s in the 1925 version?

[@Morgil27]

I feel like Monster Madness has extended beyond October this year.

[@slaughterround643]

You know, I didn't care about classic movies before seeing this video but god you make it so damn interesting

[@theotherjared9824]

The real cut of the film was the friends we made along the way.

[@austinpowersasmaozedong]

James: *trying to enjoy a classic phantom of the opera fiIm* Iantern man: I'm about to end this man's whoIe career

[@AriochStarr]

James seems like the kind of guy to talk in-depth about a piece of cardboard taped to a lamp.

[@dfailsthemost]

Lantern man: "Any of y'all know where the bathroom's at?" Director "Get out of the shot!" LM: "Hey fella, no need to get - oh shit, monster comin!"

[@dancingdevil1319]

This is a great idea for a series of Videos, keep it up James!

[@PrincessBunhead]

Universal planned to make a sequel for this film and finally got the rights from the Leroux estate in 1928-1929, Return of the Phantom was going to be both sound and in color. However, the sequel was dropped for some unknown reason (I'm just going to say it was because they didn't have Lon Chaney anymore) and in 1930 the sound version of Phantom was released.

[@videoplusdvd]

The “Griggs” version is sourced from 16mm versions offered for sale by Griggs-Moviedrome, and the Essex Film Club of Nutley, New Jersey by Robert Lee in the 1970’s. the soundtrack was also available on casette for their silent prints..

[@davidjames579]

So Griggs might not be the actor's name, but a seller?

[@TheGollddMAN]

I love these kinds of videos. Even though I have never watched any of these, I still love hearing James talk. More like these please.

[@Prostapheresys]

Keep this series going, it's great and super interesting!

[@compking876]

James, these trivia videos are some of the most interesting things I've seen in years. You have to keep this up!

[@RobBrulinski]

Really like how in-depth and obscure (in topic and detail) these are! Can't wait to see more. Thanks!

[@mrs.g.9816]

Best edition of Phantom of the Opera is the one with the added orchestral score composed by Gabriel Thibaudoux and performed by the Musici de Montreal. Soundtrack 1990 by La Cinemateque Quebecoise. The musical track really fits the story. As I learned, the film itself is a version prepared for reissue in 1929. In my opinion, the only bad editions of Phantom are those released with rock, rap, experimental jazz, or repetitive, corny piano music, with no respect for the visuals or the actors.

[@dylangenrich2480]

Just wanted to say that I'm a huge fan of these videos where you expound upon an aspect of classic horror films that younger audiences (such as myself) aren't very familiar with. It's highly interesting and I could listen to it for hours.

[@icanliveforever1243]

I've wanted to make a video explaining this all for such a long time. Thank you for your service. It's just such a complicated thing to explain everytime the subject of this movie comes up.

[@DeFactoLeader]

These vids are great. The nuance and passion for even the smallest detail is really appreciated and I hope you continue to make more like this.

[@MaxxLegend]

Cool vid. I'd go with the hypotesis of the guy in the audience reading the initial dialogue to capture the attention of the crowd. ;)

[@stawesomeMitch]

This video is great. Please keep doing them.

[@GiantMoth]

I really love these kind of discussions and trivia on classic films! Really looking forward to what you come up with next :)

[@JWD1992]

I love how shrouded in mystery these silent films are. Everyone who was involved in making them is long gone, as are pretty much all the people who saw them in theaters.

[@bromptondevice7685]

It's the rat catcher. In the original novel, the heroes encounter him when they're searching for The Phantom's lair.

[@morgangobin9985]

I’ve seen the Phantom Reviewer’s videos on this, so I already knew quite a bit of Phantom’s mixed up, crazy history. Still very interesting, though. Also, I’ve NEVER heard of the guy with the lantern scene! I don’t remember seeing it on my copy of the DVD. He showed up later in the film-I think he was revealed to be the Rat Catcher-but not at the beginning. Maybe I just blocked it out of my memory?

[@bugglemagnum6213]

whered u watch it

[@morgangobin9985]

Goyly Dan The Ultimate Edition is the DVD I have, which is probably the one edition that doesn’t have that scene come to think of it.

[@AubreyTheKing]

LOVE videos like these by James! Please MORE! So much mystery in these videos!

[@kingbotzcustoms]

Both awesome and intriguing history on this, thanks James!!!

[@StarshineGoomba]

The only plausible theories I can think of is either it was filmed for a silent version and the frames with the text dialogue are all long gone, or over the years the audio track has been corrupted beyond repair and there was no way to salvage it.

[@andreavasquez4355]

It's strange how the version of The Phantom of the Opera is incomplete and made up of lost versions.

[@evanpeters87]

These types of informative videos are awesome!

[@decimationmhk]

Loving these. Keep 'em coming!

[@PEACEWALKER1992]

Damn James, I haven't seen any other person who cares more about these old films than you :)

[@mortalvombat66]

Please make many, many more of these :)

[@DrGabber]

I enjoyed this a lot. Do more of these, James!

[@hhdhpublic]

James. These videos are amazing. Keep doing them. So damn interesting. Seriously, make this into a regular series.

[@qazmko22]

I was just thinking about this. In my opinion it's a speech about the movie.. possibly a warning about the phantom

[@jackbruno953]

Most likely was, it was a scene made most likely for the sound version that has since been spliced into multiple versions of the film

[@MooTelevision]

According to Google YOU are the Lateran Man now 😭😂

[@timdornaus]

love these videos. more please. these bit nerdy, in depth, analytical vids with a bit of horror/thriller movie trivia knowledge angle

[@CultureColours]

James pleeeaasee we need more of these. They're the best thing you've done in ages

[@slothbaby2104]

the lantern man is in the novel

[@aleccoughcool7951]

Well the character with the latern is Florine Papillion played by Snitz Edwards I can tell that much just by looking at him, as for what he says i dont know at all

[@whatifindinteresting3067]

Your love for classic film is contagious, and appreciated. I really miss you shots sitting behind your mock up rental store front desk. I loved that, with the old crt monitor..

[@SonOfmowgef]

I'm loving these videos exploring apparently minor eccentricities of beloved films. More of the same please James!

[@rcbnz]

I don't know why, but I always thought that the man with the lantern was someone that was referencing the fireman from the novel who went down to the catacombs in search for the phantom

[@Donteatacowman]

I thought this was going to be more character-centered so I was surprised that you didn't speculate on exactly who the guy really is. Confession, I'm not a film person and I haven't seen this movie! But in the book, the novel was presented as being a "real" story that Gaston Leroux (the author) pieced together from historical documents. I thought you were going to suggest that the lantern man is an expy of Leroux, being used as a framing device for the film Phantom somehow.

[@JohnIsAngryAgain]

Man your videos are so chill. I swear. Love your work bro.

[@drradon]

The nativ color scenes look amazing. Thanks for the Video James, i love it when you do these round up history videos! Thank you!

[@criticalblitz7894]

"Extreme Nerdy Horror Trivia"...you should make it into its own series, this is awesome!

[@alext8828]

9:07, Lantern Man shot; there's a dark image on the left side of the screen that remains for some seconds, then moves away to the left. Is that who the lantern man is speaking to? Also, does the image of the lantern man match the '25 version or the '29? It matches the '25. It's clearly not from the '29?

[@LeifGrahamsson]

These videos are incredible, every base or possibility is covered and we gain a great insight in a small time. Wonderful stuff.

[@NesRuA]

James, I'm honestly loving these more casual videos. Keep up the good work!