Who? The secret car brands that are about to take over the world | Electrifying.com

#electriccars #evs #electric
How many companies are there in China, building electric cars? Any guesses? Well, that’s one of the things that the Electrifying team has been discussing in the latest video, in which Ginny, Nicola and Batch tackle the subject of cars from companies you’ve never heard of.
And what’s even more surprising, is that some of those companies are actually huge corporations that dwarf the European manufacturers that we all know. Take BYD, for instance. It feels like a brand new start-up in the UK, but at the end of last year it sold more electric cars than Tesla, globally. They don’t all come from China, either. There’s always Fisker, Lucid and Rivian to consider, as well as the mass of Chinese makers like GWM Ora, Zeekr and Nio.
Join Ginny, Nicola and Batch as they run through all the brands that are rapidly establishing themselves as brands to watch in the UK.
Would you be happy to take a chance on a new car brand, or do you prefer to stick to a more traditional manufacturer? Let us know in the comments below.
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[@thenee6ynerd]

Why doesn't anyone mention the electric buses driving in London are BYD built

[@kennethstealey1311]

I still like citroen

[@rp9674]

U did

[@jonevansauthor]

@@kennethstealey1311 do Citroen make electric buses, or any buses?

[@ohyesitsme]

Because London EV buses keep gong on fire, three in the last two weeks (possibly not BYD)

[@davidk.d.7591]

The Han is part of the dynasty series. There's also the Tang, the Song and the Qin. Tue Dolphin is oart of the ocean series, together with the Seagull and Seal. The Atto 3 is actually called the Yuan plus in China. Its also part of the Dynasty series

[@tipperarymick5337]

The idea that Lucid or Fisker are going to take over the world is laughable. They are building hardly anything, are actually cutting production instead of expanding, and in major financial trouble. Neither has the money, or turnover and are likely to go bust any time. Rivian had massive cash reserves and financial backing, but even they are struggling, but at least they are starting to ramp up production so that should help.

[@iainwares6361]

This mob are excruciating. About as informed and on the ball as my Jack Russelll on world car . EV production. There are about 80 EV brands in China btw.

[@bullshitbingo2259]

Agreed

[@jonevansauthor]

Lucid do have access to an effectively unlimited amount of money - the Saudi royal family won't run out of it any time soon. There's got to be a point where even they question the lack of productivity though. It's clear they're happy producing bizarre and expensive projects which may or may not work out though - look at The Line. Lots of people think it'll never happen, but they are actually building it. They didn't take one look at that plan and say, 'Why don't we just, you know, build ten km of it and see if that works, with a plan to build more if it does?'. For all we know they have a similar outlook on Lucid - it'll take twenty years to get production going, and that's fine. Only time will tell because they Saudi royals certainly won't before they choose to.

[@hishamg]

Probably true but Tesla also had years of sheer hell before becoming the profitable behemoth they are now. Even Tesla need to start bringing out new and more models (B and C segment cars) soon if they don’t want to start falling behind BYD etc

[@davidk.d.7591]

@@hishamg Tesla had first movers advantage though. Now there are already established players like Tesla and BYD and the big cat manufacturers also have their models too

[@HB-zs5pp]

What about Xpeng they have some interesting stuff coming

[@jeffparkinson7541]

Have to 2nd this. Xpeng look like they are doing some seriously good cars.

[@MrJordonMcghee]

Had my BYD Dolphin a whole month now in the UK, great run around car, commuting to train-station. Full charge last about two weeks if you stay off motorways. Charges fast on 50Kw chargers, about 40 mins. Great car, full of tech, better then MG and the APP works for those icy mornings.

[@gordonmackenzie4512]

BYD are sponsoring the Euros Football Tournament in Germany next summer. Right in VWs back yard.

[@jonevansauthor]

Do they not realise how corrupt FIFA is, or do they not care? Waste of money too.

[@dapprman]

I assume, or at least hope, this was filmed 2-3+ months back as ... BYD have now overtaken Tesla Fisker released their quarterly financial statement in December and their share price instantly tanked. They have sold a fraction of what they have made and by that point had been looking for a buyer for the last few months (with the industry rumours being no one is interested). The company is now expected to cease to be early to mid 2024 (unless by some miracle they can find a buyer for the company).

[@benrgrogan]

Will have been filmed with the other sit down end of year videos, so probably filmed in December at the latest.

[@Popdog76]

BYD outsold tesla in q4 but lost in 2023 to them. Also bear in mind BYD data include "new energy", which includes hybrids and sold 90% of cars in China not globally.

[@tomooo2637]

You are making the common mistake that BYD sales are based on new-energy cars - that include plug in cars. You should only consider BEV for that comparison.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@tomooo2637 no they beat them in BEV production without the hybrids, in Q4. But the reason for that could be to do with the fact they currently build some cars which are smaller than Tesla does and mysteriously have smaller batteries. Plus they sell batteries to Tesla so they make a lot off some Tesla models too. It's ridiculous to compare BYD with Tesla anyway - they're not in competition. The companies that will die all produce ICE vehicles (or are startups of some kind). If and when Tesla ramp production on a Model 2, it *might* be produced in high numbers but since we don't yet know if it's just a slightly smaller Model 3 because Americans have trouser department ego problems and can't cope with the concept of small cars... it's impossible to predict how many they can build for the same number of battery cells. And even if they start in April, it'll take months to ramp it up and they won't have a factory making them, just one test line.

[@davidk.d.7591]

@@tomooo2637 it's only Bev's actually. PHEV's +BEV's BYD sells almost twice as much as Tesla. It was in pure BEV sales that they overtook Tesla last quarter

[@timsmith5339]

I find the whole 'building a brand' thing both interesting and confusing. When SAIC bought the MG brand, I thought they were using it very badly, to the point where I was sure they were shooting themselves in the foot. With the benefit of hindsight, and seeing how some other Chinese brands are struggling to establish themselves, I can see they knew exactly what they were doing and played a blinder. I reckon most MG buyers probably don't even realise they are a Chinese brand. They are accepted and are building market share at a phenomenal rate. When the MG4 was launched, they also raised their game. I'd certainly have an MG4 where the 5 and the ZS don't quite tick the boxes for me.

[@neilbrandon]

Yes most MG buyers think they are supporting the UK. I do wonder if there should be an investigation into how MG and other British brands were sold. Seems Heathrow Airport in Middle Eastern hands now too.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@neilbrandon I think if you buy an MG and don't know it's made in China, you should have your finances audited by HMRC and be subjected to a battery of psychological tests because you're a candidate for residential long term care. I just don't believe that people who can afford one, don't know. I think that's just an assumption. I also don't see why the brand would matter as every MG owner I ever met, before they moved, mostly talked about how their car was in the garage. They didn't have a good reputation, much like Lotus or Jaguar or McLaren and Ferrari.

[@Jaw0lf]

I am hoping that all of the competition will bring down the cost of EV's. To me the big figfferentiator with ICE was the engine and transmission. Some manufacturers were so far ahead, but now and the electric motor has levelled the playing field as it seems producing a car body to a high quality can be done far easier.

[@ohyesitsme]

It's not all rosey as it looks as though Polestar are in trouble along with Fisker and Lucid. Ford are losing over $30000 on each Lightning they are bulding and the inventory at dealers is unbelivable so lots of dealers could go bankrupt as they have to pay credit payments for each of their stock. Volkswagon sales in China, which is their main market, has hit an all time low. Onto the EV car leasing company have gone to the wall and Hertz has just bailed out of it's EV Teslas. I can also see with the ZEV mandate that there are going to be difficulties in meeting those targets starting at 22% this year of all sales have to be EV's. Most of the EV sales of new cars are either by lease companies or peple with salery sacrifice.If you look at the offerings from lease companies you will see that they are offering many EV's at a greatly reduced monthly payment which indicates that they are not moving them at a rate that is profitable. Just to add was this podcast made for children?

[@stsart]

Didnt mention XPeng and Lynk & Co which are already in europe

[@Jasonkenny-]

Lynk & Co are set to expand massively…do not underestimate any of the Geely brands…

[@dalroth10]

More than 100 EV manufacturers in China

[@countrysongsful]

My guess is over 270 car manufacturers in China 😮

[@iainwares6361]

80, but only because the Electric Viking said so, Those are the ones making some kind of 'proper' car and the Chinese government is cracking down on the growth of companies being started up and sponsored by local districts in China.

[@graffitijungle2072]

In fact, there are no more than 20 major Chinese car manufacturers. Because most Chinese companies have many sub brands. The situation is like Geely owning Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, Zeekr, and so on.

[@alangravy27]

So glad to see Nicola back on the show! She gives such energy to the video!

[@maxflight777]

Agreed

[@eltonkingsley5617]

You did not mention the reason for the drop in Chinese brands. The Chinese government withdrew the manufacturing subsidy for manufacturers, as many companies were producing absolute rubbish with no intention of actually selling the vehicles. Secondly you did not mention Polestar being technically bankrupt for overestimating sales figures. Same with Rivian, whose products are being stockpiled, together with the Ford Lightning suffering the same fate. Lucid are in serious financial straights having not sold sufficient Air models to support further investment. In fact car manufacturers globally are revising down their 2024 sales forecasts, including Tesla in the last few days.

[@Sam-tn5ru]

“We don’t build that many cars any more”… yes we’re down from the 2016 peak of 1.7M per year, but 2023 saw an increase to back over a Million cars built in the UK! Also don’t forget it’s not just the car brands but also all the supply chain companies behind them 🇬🇧

[@mattperkins1992]

Most in financial trouble, including Polstar

[@b280c_2]

RIVIAN RIVIAN RIVIAN!! If only they were in Uk, that’s the brand that would get me out of my TESLA. R1T please…

[@karlInSanDiego]

Tesla pioneered the least sustainable EV. Rivian improved on that error.

[@oliverstemp9132]

The pick up is really nice, it’s not that huge either. Fits well on UK roads

[@malph9216]

And where is the sales back up for all these new EV brands? I live in the East Midlands, and my nearest BYD dealer and service location is an hours drive from me. Also, there is no indication of how all these 'newcomers' are going to support their warranties, servicing and maintenance commitments and the supply of spare parts......where are the trained technicians going to come from? Even established legacy car brands are struggling to get suitably qualified people to work on EVs. Personally, I'm not confident this situation will end well for many owners.

[@davidcolin6519]

I think that your perspective is very Anglo-centric, most other European countries have undertaken significant drives to encourage a new generation of auto-mechanics. I live in Spain and I certainly know of 2 of my students who are xurrently training. As for dealer support; I tend to agree that this is a headache, and it's one of the reasons why I think that companies which partner with European brands are far more likely to succeed.My nearest BYD dealer is about 100km away, while my nearest MG dealer is no further than any other "Normal" brand, as is the nearest Volvo dealer.

[@maxflight777]

They don’t go wrong! No servicing , just tyres and screen wash

[@craigbrown5667]

Kia and Hyundai are South Korean, not Chinese. It doesn't matter the number of Chinese companies making EVs, but the number of companies that will actually MAKE IT when it comes to full scale production in China and beyond. For that, I'll say BYD have a decent chance and that's about it.

[@Daniel-jm5hd]

When was this recorded? BYD overtook Tesla in December and Ora now call their car the 03.

[@p.goonan7569]

& GWM lightning is called the 07

[@neilbrandon]

BYD only overtook Tesla in Q4. Tesla sold more over the whole year...

[@alexmckenna1171]

The Good Cat was a great name.

[@AndrewBurns-gq3kn]

Reference the Funky Cat, there second product should be called Copy Cat! How much Porsche design is in that thing! Keep up the good work 🙂

[@AndrewBurns-gq3kn]

Their second product 😂

[@jonevansauthor]

The designer is Emmanuel Derta who has worked for Fiat, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Porsche. Plus, it's just a car. Looks like all the other cars. If it were really a Porsche rip off, it'd have a transmission and be a crime against engineering.

[@PJRye]

I've an MG4. When I was looking at what to buy, manufacturers' human rights record was negative. So I didn't buy a Tesla. And in Australia, the GWM car is just called the Ora Cat. No cringes there.

[@gw4182]

Why does no one understand yet that Nio can ALSO be rapid charged the same as every other electric cars - battery swap is AS WELL AS not instead of rapid charging - perfect

[@davidk.d.7591]

Exactly. Besides, battery swap works quite well in China

[@benrgrogan]

I think people do. The potential problem for nio is the battery swap and the brands stores are expensive and time consuming to make/run. This might be what holds them back in Europe at least initially, far more planning red tape compared to their experience in China.

[@bullshitbingo2259]

NIO cannot really "rapid" charge. Their specs are not that great for the money, that is the main problem.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@davidk.d.7591 look, just because something like gun control works in other countries, doesn't mean it can work here! We're exceptional, just like the Yanks and nothing that works elsewhere would work here. I mean, sure, NIOs system does require a lot of investment, but the basic concept works fine, and offers some advantages. Do I think it'll take over for private cars? Not really, but people rented EV batteries from Renault and were relatively ok with that so... what's the difference? I think the Silence/Godoro model is a much more realistic implementation for it - scooters and quadricycles and being able to carry at least some of the battery up to your flat to charge or have a spare. Plus the technology is super cool and has clear industrial applications. The robots alone are a useful tech they can sell to people like JCB or other robotics companies.

[@alangravy27]

I live in Leeds. the 5th largest city in the UK (depending on how you measure it) Tesla worked out that they needed a showroom offering BYD are doing the same but Fisker and Polestar don't do this. If Polestar were given a leg up by being sold through selected Volvo dealers (the Polester 2 uses a lot of XC 40 parts) the brand would have far more of a chance. A lot of people want to see and drive a car before spending a lot of cash.

[@maxflight777]

I’ve just returned from a week in Beijing. So many Tesla model Y and model 3 there it was extraordinary

[@supamario3055]

Really enjoyed this format. Ginny, James and Nicola are perfect. Great job.

[@maxflight777]

Agreed

[@Pateldaku]

If Lucid survives then their small car will be the one to buy. Their technology is brilliant and very efficient. The Lucid Air Grand Touring in summer, 516 range after 350 miles still showing 110 to go. In Winter last week, 275 with 145 to go.

[@mrmitch5054]

They’re about 80 Chinese manufacturers

[@stephenodonohue9876]

Love the show, enjoy the chat... but was the sound a bit out? I'm getting old but yesterday my hearing was fine, today, I had to put subtitles on to pick up the chat??? Just a thought.

[@oliverstemp9132]

I am most interested in BYD, Fisker, Lucid and Zeekr. But let’s see what happens.

[@ten3353]

I love these chats. Great work team 🎉🙏🏼

[@toyotaprius79]

Aptera is the wild card that the established are too afraid to mention Aptera or a BYD Seagull in Europe would be game over for the established industry players.

[@Harrythehun]

Quite unlikely that Aptera will make it. The market has changed and the funding is lacking.

[@rp9674]

Which will sell first, Aptera or Tesla Roadster, Aptera I hope

[@richardgledhill]

Aptera will disappear this year, most likely. They still only have a "concept ready to turn into a production car" - and that's where all the brands fail. Just ask Arrival - a drivable concept is 0.01% of the cost of becoming profitable.

[@neilbrandon]

Its a shame the Aptera is so big.. I am afraid it maybe too wide for the UK parking and width restrictions. Length, 4,496 mm (177 in). Width, 2,225 mm (87.6 in).

[@benrgrogan]

​@@neilbrandon4.8 x 2.4 is the UK standard so it would technically fit but be almost imposibly tight

[@SWR112]

How smart was the move to buy the brand name MG - genuinely a brilliant move. People don’t have to explain their Car they just say I own a MG. But I’ll emit I’m never driving a 🍐.

[@harvardan]

I can't believe that there were the same number of brownie bites on the table at the end of the video as there were at the beginning!

[@colinpearce3249]

There’s a Fisker showroom in Newport Pagnell.

[@maxflight777]

VW Audi Porsche…when you consider how dominant the Golf was .. Well they had the opportunity to dominate the EV marketplace. Sadly they totally screwed up and now face bankruptcy.

[@AutoReport1]

Magna is Canadian not Austrian. They just bought the old Daimler Steyr plant in Austria.

[@TheJ1s]

Lucid might be around for their third car however, they might have a tough road than their competitors. Frisker and Rivian owners they from I hear from their videos are keeping their vehicles, I haven't seen too many Lucid owners doing that, I hear they going back to Tesla or another automaker.

[@specialcircs]

China builds everything to the specifications & price point of their customers (retailers) and can build to any quality, including extremely high. Any other viewpoint is just thinly-veiled racism or plain ignorance. It was thus with Japan 60 years ago.

[@maxflight777]

The seal is improved… but drive it back to back with the latest model 3 and there is no way you would buy it.

[@EliotHochberg]

What I'd like to see is a review of what it's like to own a Chinese car, and what the considerations are. Things I'd like to know: - How many have support in the UK? - How many have maintenance in the UK? - How are these companies about right to repair? - How do these companies that manufacture in China compare with regards to how they treat their workers? - Compared to Tesla and legacy companies how are Chinese auto manufacturers with regard to data safety? - If you are Chinese expat or someone who is outspoken about China, is it legit to have concerns about buying a Chinese car? - Are any of these Chinese companies making EVs without over the air updates, or simple EVs that don't require extensive electronics to operate and maintain?

[@jonevansauthor]

Answers, no, no, they hate right to repair, better than the US which is not saying anything, they'll get hacked just like everyone does, yes of course, no of course not you must have OTA updates or cars can't work at all. I assume those are the sort of negative answers you wanted? In all seriousness, do you really think they're shipping cars here without having any notion of how they'll support them? How would that work for them?

[@EliotHochberg]

Have you ever gotten support from Chinese only tech companies? Because if not, then take your sarcasm and stuff it in a sock. 90% of the time, the customer support solution for a Chinese made product of most types is to offer to mail you a replacement. That's not going to be viable for a car. It's a perfectly reasonable set of questions, so unless you have bought and dealt with one of these new auto brands on the side where you need assistance after purchase, maybe leave the answers to someone who has them.@@jonevansauthor

[@b280c_2]

Fisker have a flagship sales and service centre in Newport Pagnell! Opened in December. I test drive the Ocean, and it’s a great car. App and UI is raw but reminded me of the first showings of the Tesla app and UI. Huge potential, watching closely!

[@Harrythehun]

The buggy software and folks waiting makes Fisker go bankrupt. The latest scandal is faked sales numbers.

[@Yanquetino]

"Built in MY country" makes no sense when we're talking about EVs. Last I checked, the climate crisis doesn't stop at any nation's borders. We need to get rid of tailpipes worldwide! Last week I was overjoyed to finally replace my "American" Tesla with a South Korean made… Ioniq 5. What sweetened the deal is that Hyundai is offering a discount to match our EV federal tax incentive, as well as another discount for a "competitive" vehicle trade-in. $10K off the MSRP clinched it!

[@CMCNestT]

Ineos buys ICE from BMW and transmissions from ZF. And Walla, you start manufacturing SUVs.

[@Patchow]

I want some Italian EVs. Come on Fiat, Alfa, Maserati!

[@Dqtube]

Maserati has already announced its plans, Alfa is expected to enter the game next year, Fiat won't offer more than what it already has, and there are even vague plans for a Lancia restart.

[@Pottery4Life]

Thank you.

[@maxflight777]

Two companies prominent on your thumbnail are facing imminent bankruptcy.

[@maxflight777]

Those that support battery swap technology must be taking drugs! It’s hilarious Most of my Tesla supercharger visits are around 15, perhaps 16 minutes.

[@EliotHochberg]

You British presenters are very judgy about cat is perfectly fine, dolphin is fine, a company called build your dreams seems kind of fun to me. Pear is a little weird. But is Harold really any better? F pace? Morris minor? Cortina? Sprite? Black prints? Carlton? Amp? Or the very creative list of gobbledygook numbers and letters? Blower? There are a lot of reasons to be concerned about Chinese automat facture, but most of these names are perfectly fine. Have a little fun. No matter what car you get, somebody’s going to figure out a reason to make fun of it if they wanna make fun of you.

[@mrmawson2438]

Cheers ladies

[@stepheneckersley3584]

Hello not true as there are not enough skilled people to repair electric cars great show cheers steve

[@christophervernon2246]

Who cut the cheese at 21:13?

[@daveevans9809]

Can't hold a candle to these guys - unless it's a product placement one...🙂

[@clasqm]

O3? We'll just call it the Ora Ozone, then.

[@tonybarton3746]

They should name one of the cars the EFR ( egg fried rice ) great name and I’ve heard it’s been selling quite well 😂😂

[@garrycroft4215]

I’m guessing more than a hundred?

[@bernardhilton3527]

Great Wall Motors also, who owns MG?

[@jinxvrs]

SAIC own MG

[@mrmawson2438]

Honda

[@laurieh]

The 500 chinese manufacturers reduced down to 100 was actually because xi jinping said there were too many and they need to disolve or merge to become 100.

[@fadd6895]

I have a question for you . What happens in China and Hong Kog to someone who is asking for Democracy and human rights ?

[@manhattanrats]

Hi from New York City! I live in Manhattan's Upper West Side, and I have a reservation for a PEAR. As a requirements analysis kind of technical writer, I can clearly see the use-case driven design of the PEAR for people who live in urban settings. See the Houdini trunk. Waiting to know the final production specs, hoping for LFP batteries.

[@bullshitbingo2259]

Pear is vaporware and even if it ever arrives, then the interior as well as the technical specs will be trash. Not worth any money at all

[@davidcolin6519]

@@bullshitbingo2259 That is your opinion, which you have every right to. But don't make it sound as though you know, because you don't I really like almost everything about the PEAR (I believe the name is all in capitals, as it's an acronym), but I am completely unconvinced by that "disappearing" tailgate, I can't think of any way that you could make it work AND keep out the dust, dirt and grime that always accumulates in the rear of any storage compartment of any car.

[@jespere.thomsen2396]

​@@davidcolin6519 ...or the waiting for the time it will take for it to open.

[@torrhthc4103]

New electric Macan pls, ty.😂

[@colinrenfrew48]

Why put a scented candle next to food? Yuk.

[@mrmawson2438]

fisker isn't doing very well

[@rp9674]

Only if you define doing well as making and selling cars and making a profit

[@kyliefan7]

@@rp9674😂 OR their stock price going down to $.74 per share today!!!!! 😂😂😂

[@davidk.d.7591]

​@@rp9674what should doing well be defined at instead

[@rp9674]

No tming belt/chain, injectors, fuel pump, oil pump, exhaust sys, alternator, fuel filter

[@rp9674]

Oil filter

[@hamburglar83]

Rivian just came out with smaller cars. The r3 is great for Britain.

[@stevehartley7504]

Lucid and iPace got awards but too expensive great interiors! Need lots of low end models! Aspirations is ok but it takes years or for ever to realise your aspirations!!!

[@robertmacgregor2575]

You forgot SAIC, who produce MG.

[@benrgrogan]

I guess they're going off MG as a brand is pretty well known already

[@richard63]

I'm only here for Ginny.

[@neilbrandon]

Interesting title. How on earth did great British Brands such as Mini, Rover, Jaguar, Lotus, Rolls Royce end up in foreign hands? Perhaps we should all question where our money goes when we buy a secret car brand and realise that they are not British such as MG. The West, including the UK needs to rediscover innovation, risk, volume manufacturing, and marketing, before it's too late. The UK and many Western economies could collapse, while at the same time, we finance hostile counties who want more than just a share of the car market.

[@Harrythehun]

People are woke and lazy in western countries. The UK is lost, no hope for a recovery.

[@catherinegrimes2308]

I totally agree with you. It is a total lack of strategic thinking by politicians, but there again, a lot of them are know nothing lawyers.

[@rp9674]

Going for short $/£. Long term China will own us

[@davidk.d.7591]

Don't think you should add the West and the UK in thus situation. The Germans are doing okay. Same with Tesla. The British car industry has been dead for years

[@neilbrandon]

VW have had to go to China to get their EVs working and producing in China. BMW factories in China too @@davidk.d.7591

[@ifanlappage1033]

i'd rather drive a Pear, than drive a Lemon.

[@copaloadofthis]

At least with a Lemon, you know what you’re getting up-front !

[@mikadavies660]

When we made cars in the UK... British Leyland... I didn't want to buy one! So what is buying "British" now... Nissan??? Still don't want to buy one!! The priority for buying an EV, would be based on its battery pack supplier. Any EV with an LG Chem battery is the first one to be crossed off my list. Next filter would be the on board technology. Finally the filter would be range and price.

[@bmc8195]

Why LG Chem? I'm intrigued. What's the issue there?

[@mikadavies660]

@bmc8195 Virtually all brands supplied by them have had issues. Most famous is GM The Bolt EV. The Altium Platform is GM and Cadillac and Hummer have all had issues. However, kept far more quiet is Hyundai and Kia... the worst is Kona which has had loads of battery failures and warranty replacements. They really have a past and recent history of failures due to corrosion. Even if it is relatively smaller numbers, something smells wrong with that brand and if any car will not get a 100,000 miles life it is LG CHEM.

[@mikadavies660]

@bmc8195 Definitely worth going for the bread crumbs... forum's etc... and like me you will start seeing the pattern. Failures on models and brands keep coming back to LG Chem... Even recalls on home power packs and fires with power packs... LG Chem..... Definitely something is more than a coincidence.

[@bmc8195]

@@mikadavies660 Thanks for that. It's interesting. Most of the cars I'd consider have BYD or CATL batteries, but it certainly sounds like one should be cautious around LG Chem batteries. This does sound like a problem for Americans though - they don't have the access the rest of us have to Chinese batteries, so LG Chem problems would be a bigger issue for them.

[@jonathantaylor1998]

Interesting - if now rather "out-of-date" - conversation about potential new EV brands. Funnily enough, I kept wondering if it was a coincidence that you all had 'colour-coordinated' tea cups...!! 🤣

[@andreasostberg4837]

Guess: 40 companies, 80 brands in China

[@mikadavies660]

ORA has been trying to give away the overpriced "CAT" all year.... As they are not selling, they are offering leases at very low rates. Less than £250/mth.... However, seeing it in the flesh I can't see why anyone would want one?

[@patrickh7368]

I like the look of the Seal also “ we're never gonna survive, unless We get a little crazy “ lol but likewise with the Cat “meow meow, meow meow, “ lol but there are no dealers around me… so it involves mikes n miles for service and any warranty issues etc … don’t think so… again lol 🤔 Ohh and “you” always ask for comment but never respond… is that not rude… 😳

[@wu05354207]

BYD 1

[@Mike-qu6fp]

my guess: 200

[@rod2625]

Over 400 Chinese companies

[@mrmawson2438]

This 1300 HP Chinese Electric Super Car Is Coming For Ferrari Wheelsboy 120K

[@rod2625]

BYD designs are for the Asian markets......not to my liking at all.

[@Peter-vn8ue]

They are the 2nd most popular Bev manufacturer in sales in Australia behind Tesla in top spot.

[@Dqtube]

@@Peter-vn8ue Because they are the only brand that supplies a larger number of units and have free shipping subsidies from their government, so they can offer prices that are several % lower.

[@benrgrogan]

The Han and the new 'Song L' are stunning. I quite like the Atto 3 too. The rest of their cars...much less attractive

[@airrodgers1242]

even though BYD are design for the Asian markets its design head is Wolfgang Egger...HE sound very european to me...

[@karlInSanDiego]

Y'all need to assemble a motor, a transmission, and then an EV invertor, EV motor/differential, and an EV battery pack. As Nicola said, it's only marginally less complex. It's a tired, inaccurate trope that there are less parts, less labor, and it is an order of magnitude less to go wrong on an EV.

[@davidcolin6519]

There really are significantly less parts in the drive train of an EV. That doesn't mean that they need significantly less labour to produce, but that the labour is used in very different ways. And yes, there is an order of magnitude less to go wrong, because EVs have an order of magnitude fewer moving parts. Current data puts hybrids at the bottom of the reliability stakes, with about 100 more vehicle fires (as ana example) for every vehicle fire in an ICE, whereas EVs (at least, those not in China) have about 0,002 vehicle fires per ICE vehicle fire.

[@mikedee171]

My only question about Chinese cars is the worry about possible future geopolitical struggles. What would happen if China invades Taiwan. I am not offering an opinion on this. The Chinese cars do look interesting.

[@Dqtube]

This is a security issue if the cars will be fully dependent on communication with servers in China. It is definitely a safety risk. Compared to smartphones where the batteries are small and it is obvious that something in the background is draining the battery. In an electric car, you may not notice that the vehicle uses a few hundred kwh a day more when idle because the microphone and cameras are sending data.

[@benrgrogan]

If history has shown us anything it is that integrating economies tends to improve diplomatic relations. Money talks and losing billions of dollars of export money talks quite loudly.

[@mikedee171]

@@benrgrogan I hope you are right, although recently we have seen a reverse of globalisation, and a rise of reactionary politics, eg BRexit, Trump etc.

[@copaloadofthis]

@@Dqtube.. did you mean to say watt hours ?

[@Dqtube]

@@copaloadofthis Yes, a discussion about cars, so my brain automatically used kWh without noticing it was a mistake.🤦

[@Dqtube]

Has BYD stopped counting PHEVs in EV sales numbers or is it still faking the numbers ?

[@jonevansauthor]

Last few years of figures I've seen have always split it out so I'm puzzled why you think the numbers are secret? And they did build more BEV than Tesla in Q4. Which no-one with a brain is genuinely excited about because the really important figure is how many cells/kwh did they produce. They obviously produce cars faster because Tesla doesn't make any small cars yet because of American's ego problems and general cowardice when it comes to driving small cars.

[@divinejusticefeelsgood]

100

[@davidcolin6519]

They aren't even remotely "secret". They're just not known in Europe. And they're going to have a tough breaking into the European market. It's all very well building a brand in China, a market that, until only a few years ago, relied mostly on pedal power. But the rest of the world has very different expectations for their cars, and that is especially so for the European market. It took Japan Inc. effectively an entire generation to be accepted on equal terms to the European brands, and they still have to undergo quite significant suspension/dynamic changes for their European Market products. When Japan Inc. arrived on European shores not only were they absolutely loaded to the gunals with all the available tech, but they also undercut their European rivals by a good 10% or more. The Chinese are certainly loading their offerings with all the tech, but they are NOT offering any price advantage, nor are they even really offering much more in the way of tech or dynamics that is actually useful or better than their Euro-equivalents. I can see that BYD should eventually create a niche for itself, but that is only if they can leverage their financial and research muscle. Nor is that even a given in the current market, as the major battery advances seem to be coming from CATL at the moment. And it is that CATL battery tech that I think is going to create a position for the Geely brands. Zeekr appear to be in line to receive the first Condensed Matter (CM) batteries from CATL, and that sort of energy density will probably make it relatively easy to prise the European market open for them, especially if Geely do the sensible thing and associate the brand with Volvo/Polestar/Lotus. I really think that it's going to be very tough for any Chinese brand that wants to open the doors to the European "Magic Kingdom" if they don't buy into European branding. No matter how good the product is, if they want to sell at European prices, they're going to have to make more Europeans comfortable, either with pricing, tech or dynamics. The brands that have found success so far have combined that with associations with European brands. I do not see an easy future if they have no advantage in any of the above.

[@niptodstan]

I’ve scoured the market and now ordered a Skoda Enyaq 85x Sportline Plus. I’m 65 and don’t need ultra fast. I just want to charge once on a trip. I won’t buy Chinese. I don’t trust them.

[@mikey7326]

No unfortunately Fisker are going under. Too much debt and not enough sales.

[@CRBRETT]

34

[@rp9674]

2

[@oliverstemp9132]

Nio and battery swapping is not the future.

[@mikadavies660]

One of the worst videos, from you that i have see in many months. Mostly the brands that you talked about have massive reliability issues to resolve and some will be bankrupt BEFORE resolving the issues. You are encouraging people to buy junk, rather than discuss brands that are PROVING TO BE STABLE and brands with OUTSTANDING WARRANTIES.

[@Koulis_]

Fisher have enormous debt and a laughable business model. I give them two years at the most unless they gat a huge cash injection and improve their manufacturing process. This is what happens when a designer tries to run a company.

[@mrmawson2438]

Hello 😀

[@tommiko8313]

Fosker will go bankrupt!

[@mrmawson2438]

New Lexus RZ450e F Sport Performance EV is slower than the base version The Electric Viking

[@steve7882]

Have you discussed the child labour issues, modern slavery problems and general ethical issues in China and how we can be confident these aren’t part of the Chinese electric car supply chain?

[@MrGuitar1975]

😂

[@tim66612343]

Chinese components are part of most modern supply chains so this is not an EV issue but probably includes the device that you and I are typing on.

[@jonevansauthor]

@@tim66612343 trading with them is the best way to improve those conditions anyway. But yeah, I doubt Steve has successfully boycotted all Chinese goods on that basis.

[@davidk.d.7591]

Lol BYD uses neither child labour nor do they pay so bad. The SOE's also pay well. Not sure about the others but I doubt it. While child labour still exists in China, it's much less than before and not going to be in mega corporations. Government regulation of that stuff has improved. It's also unrealistic to expect Chinese workers to earn as much as their Western counterparts in anything but big tech. It's still a poorer country with a much lower cost of living

[@chriss4949]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@LeMagnum440]

Er, non of them. The evangelists already have them, normal people don't want them. Ginny what happened, loved you on men and motors.

[@gillonjohnstone2901]

The problem with Chinese manufacture is that it is being powered by new super coal fired power stations, and if you are going electric for green reasons then the last thing you should be doing is buying a car built using power supplied by a super coal power station

[@magallon643]

Most people don't buy Ev for the environmental reasons,they buy them because they're sick and tired of buying petrol at inflated prices and don't have to deal with Oil changes and all the nonsense you have to do to a petrol engine.

[@Peter-vn8ue]

gillionjohnstone, perhaps you should do an internet search into how many renewable energy projects are being built in China.

[@paulb1951]

@@magallon643looking at paying more than a similar site ICE vehicle and then having to buy a home charger, then as in the BYD atto 3 having to change the crappy tires they supply after a year. Yep I’ll stick with my ICE car until something decent comes along without the many issues new EV owners encounter.

[@paulb1951]

@@Peter-vn8ueyet they still produce the most emissions in the world. Whatever they have planned, it’s very much them and India who are producing massive amounts of CO2

[@magallon643]

@paulb1951 I don't know what issues you are talking about. As an 8 year old Ev Owner my only issues are 3 sets of tires, software updates,tire rotation, and 98% of the time I charge at home the installation of my home charger cost me a one time fee of $572 dls 8 years ago.