Who were the Black Irish?

[@nytn]

Connect with Danielle! www.patreon.com/NYTN send me a coffee! ko-fi.com/nytn13/ watch my secret channel! www.youtube.com/@unculturedwine

[@urzmontst.george6314]

This is becoming one of my favorite channels. Thank you for addressing race issues ,even courting controversial figures like Jared Taylor, without your channel turing into a vitriolic cesspit. As someone with a mixed ethnicity family who is searching our history, your channel is an encouragement.

[@bluetinsel7099]

There are books on this, some content creators have gone to primary sources on this. Also when dna is done on Irish many have “black” dna. Europe originally has black people. The Irish were known as white N(words) also in Spain the Hebrews were called N(words) they were also in Ireland and all over Europe as it’s part of their land. You have to dive more in the scholarly sources and some are harder to come by, if you look on YT other creators have books and more on this.

[@sarahfitby6027]

When you say 'America' do you mean the United States? Not being contrary, but Canada and Mexico on down is also in the Continent of America. ❤I Love your journey and information. I too am very interested in my ancestry. English, Indigenous to America aka Turtle Island, Irish, Scottish, Portuguese, Spanish, African and Sardinian. Much love and many blessings ❣️

[@nytn]

@@sarahfitby6027 yes thank you! I should have been more clear

[@nytn]

@@contribution741 thank you so much for adding this! I have seen so much conflicting information. I am not pushing any agenda. I think it is likely the term sprang up organically in two places, and referred to different things.

[@Hopespringseternal]

As having Irish blood and Irish relatives, I was taught Black Irish was a white skinned Irish person with black hair.

[@elainegoad9777]

I knew someone who said she was "black Irish" (that's what her mother told her) Black hair, darkest eyes and pale white skin. Their family name was "Bice"

[@rettawhinnery]

Same here.

[@uncledick9445]

Same

[@laurencresap603]

exactly. This is part of black washing history.

[@nannettefreeman7331]

Ditto. ✌🏼

[@user-wy7ml3sd2m]

I'm Canadian of Irish and Scottish extraction. My dad referred to himself as Black Irish because he had very dark hair, and he thought that might come from the Spanish Armada, but pre-celt Irish people were often dark-haired.

[@Cobalt1520]

No it has nothing to do with the Spanish armada. There was only a handfull of Spanish that survived in the mainland. The vast majority of survivors was slayed. Those few who survived returned home as soon as they could.... lets be honest they had a much better life in sunny Spain. It's impossible those few atracted enough "senoritas" to leave a genetic legacy so great that still today, 400 years later, is present. BUT, with todays DNA tests, it would be VERY EASY to test how many Irish have Spanish ancestry. I bet it is 0%. Ok, maybe 0.00001%.

[@williamsmith8790]

Spanish were Goths. So blonde, red head, black, brown, etc.

[@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies]

that a nonsense Irish American myth with no baisis in fact and not even known in Ireland.

[@williamsmith8790]

@@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies seems from what he said it would be an “Irish-Canadian myth.”

[@kathleenoconnell1635]

My Grandmother was right off the boat and Black Irish. She had coal black hair, eyes so dark they looked black and a sallow complexion. Her brother had the quintessential Irish features. People thought she was Italian or Spanish. Several family members DNA results have Iberian Peninsula and North African/Arab including mine.

[@katew9927]

I'm from an Irish-American family and the term "Black Irish" was always used by my relatives to refer to people with dark hair, white skin, and blue eyes - as opposed to the stereotypical redhead or light-haired Irish person with brown or green eyes. We had both types in our family. (Like the looks of Courtney Cox vs Caroline Kennedy.) It had nothing to do with African American ancestry.

[@mfrenchcazenovia]

My family, who are mainly ethnically Irish, have dark hair, medium dark skin and pale blue eyes, fit your description perfectly.

[@1953childstar]

Very true and "that is me".. I had "milk white" skin and black hair as a child ( I darkened a tad )..

[@tommccarron1469]

This explanation "Black Irish" defined as black haired, fair skinned, blue eyed people derived from the Spanish Armada was what my Irish granny presented to me. I was a little jealous of Black Irish people I knew because they were also very good looking. I had reddish brown hair and was not so well favored.

[@RedOakCrow]

@@tommccarron1469 Those Spanish men didn't get to live long enough to mate, there would have been the odd sailor over the years that fathered a child in Ireland but not enough to affect the entire genome. The dark-haired element in Ireland is ancient.

[@davidhall1779]

my paternal grandfather described himself as Black Dutch, our line immigrated here from Ireland in the early 1700’s decades before the revolution. they settled in the appalachias and spread south from the carolinas and Tennessee to Georgia. Many of them are still living there. extensive YDNA testing indicates among other things haplogroup A M32.

[@azazel0783]

I'm Irish, The Black Irish are Irish people who have dark hair, dark features, blue or brown eyes. See, there has always been ppl living here, even before the Celts arrived. Red, blonde hair and skin has always been around, it's akin to northern living. It's got nothing to do with Africans or anything else. We don't use the term anymore because we're all here struggling the same struggle on this island.

[@christopherball7937]

@azazel0783 the Pic's people were the first.. know one knows what happened to them. Maybe they breed into the Celts

[@azazel0783]

@@christopherball7937 the picts were mostly in Britain, Scotland and Whales, there's a bit of ancestry in Northern Irish people, they say picts may have been other early Celtic tribes as the Celts once occupied all Europe. The Irish before the Celts arrived weren't picts tho. I bet there was a very many peoples (tribes) of ppl scattered throughout Europe for a very long time. Some may be well forgotten.

[@Stylah3001]

There's also the myth that The Black Irish were the remnants of the Celts from Spain that supposedly came long ago, but don't much on that, but that's what I have heard 🤷‍♂️

[@azazel0783]

@@Stylah3001 yeah that whole thing about Spanish, nah it's not true. We've had Vikings, Norman's, a few thousand of each settled here, then the English in larger numbers but there was always a substantial population here before them. Cromwell did kill off a big chunk of the Irish, then the famine killed about 25% but if you simply look at people's surnames, all the old surnames are still around and still popular.

[@myoneblackfriend3151]

I wrote a script that was set Kinsale,Ireland. The Irish people I interviewed told me the Black Irish term pertained to those of Spanish ancestry. If a person had Irish and Caribbean background they were called Caribb-Irish.

[@user-pk3ej6hp1l]

In my world Black Irish identifies those with with fair skin, and black hair. I was told it was descendants of Spanish Armada sailors.

[@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies]

that a nonsense Irish American myth with no baisis in fact and not even known in Ireland.

[@jabbermocky4520]

I've always had the same understanding. Grew up near Boston in a majority Irish community. Families that had black hair and blue or green eyes were called "Black Irish". My maternal grandmother was half-Black Irish, she said, because her father was from Wexford ( southern Ireland ) and he had the black hair/blue eyes trait. She and my mother both had black hair. I am the redheaded one. lol. Gotta be one of those cropping up in every Irish family now and then.

[@LarrySummerlin-ib6de]

​98 percent Irish. Mom's side all gingers. Northern Ireland. Dad's side Black Irish. SE Ireland. Dark hair. Deep blue eyes. And the Irish grin. ​@@jabbermocky4520

[@stephaniebiley9318]

EXACTLY

[@janisjackson7322]

A friend of mine who came from a large Irish family and had jet black hair was fascinating because he had very fair white skin and large brown eyes but had what looked like black eyeliner on the lower lids of his eyes which was a natural pigment. It was extremely attractive. How common is this with the Black Irish? Any comments or thoughts are appreciated.

[@boorobertson1985]

Black Irish just means dark haired Irish, black haired Irish.

[@palepride7530]

It comes from the rape of native Irish by people of color. Most recently from Muslim pirates.

[@geneclemetson4779]

Exactly. My ex-wife was from Ireland directly and told me the same thing.

[@aheineman9138]

Caucasian with black hair.

[@richardconnelly7141]

doubt that explanation,obviously spainards were well tanned and many survived to interbreed,im 90 % scots and northern irish, with the other 10% english,norway and something else,my grandfathers mothers maiden name was dias and appears they were in scotland for many generations likely part of the 1st Jacobite rebellion in which spanish soldiers aided highland scots in the 1500s,dias is a spanish surname

[@irenem3854]

My dad was always called "black irish."" He was olive skinned, dark wavy hair and brown eyes. My husband, who is of sicilian descent, couldn't believe he wasn't Italian. I've heard that Spanish story, too.

[@HearturMind]

Agree 100 percent. I’m 62 my mother’s and grandmother’s description of this phrase matches yours. It was Mediterranean, Roman, Basque (Spanish), Middle Eastern influences, not African or Aboriginal. Olive skin, wavy black hair, that dark under eye tinge like Elvis had. It may be different in usage today but back then is what it meant to our people emigrated to Philadelphia area from Scotland and Ireland.

[@freshinc1750]

​@@HearturMindthe Mediterranean people, the Roman people the Spanish people and Middle Easterns were all either African or mixed with Africans

[@samanthab1923]

You just described my dad. Last name of Scanlon

[@irenem3854]

@samanthab1923 My dad's last name is McHenry. My brother took a dna test and he had middle Eastern, Iberian, North African dna. Not very much mind you, but it was there. I'm fairly dark, but my brother was a toe head, so the darkness hops around. We always thought our dad was 100% Irish, but we were wrong!

[@samanthab1923]

@@irenem3854 That’s interesting. None of us has taken a genetic test. But you’re right about the blonde coming thru. Photos of my dad as a toddler he was macaroni blonde. Only to be jet black as an adult. My mom was brown but dying it blonde by 26. All of us had dark hair & hazel eyes except my brother Terence, he was blonde & curly. In fact as the next generation came along my youngest bro Sean married a woman from Venezuela & named their youngest Terence. He’s got curly blonde hair & tans with Hazel eyes.

[@stillhere1425]

It’s vague, but my understanding has always been that Black Irish were native Irish with very dark hair and eyes. More recently I came to infer that they were indigenous Celts, who didn’t tend to be red-or-blond-haired before other ethnic groups moved into the country.

[@jackieblue1267]

Irish have always had those traits. Red haired genes reach a maximum in Ireland and Britain. There has always been phenotypic variety in hair colours in in Ireland like all populations in Europe. The idea that different groups brought in different traits like different hair colour is bogus especially in regards to things like red hair.

[@doomguy9049]

Yes they're basically just swarthy looking Irish, similar in complexion to Welshmen like Tom Jones. I presume the term has been coopted by African Americans at various points, early on probably to provide a family story that would help people pass as white and more recently to bolster claims of always having lived in Europe("we were here first" etc). Neither is strictly speaking true, but the former I'm more sympathetic towards as it was a rough time to be labeled as mixed race in America let alone black, the latter is usually expressed as part of a racial supremacist ideology to which I am decidedly unsympathetic though.

[@blackestknightx8881]

​@@doomguy9049interesting statement. There seems to be proof that black people existed in many places that caucasians now rule but anyone referencing those claims is a racial supremacist? 🤔 this is why I typically do not listen to channels like this. The truth is not for everyone

[@Cobalt1520]

You know how it is today.... anything that has the "black" word in the name HAS to mean African. For example there was a group of Vikings known as "the black Danes" guess what they are saying about these guys.... I bet in 500 years when they find a sports newspaper talking about New-Zealand Rugby team "All Blacks" (not one single african in the team) they will say "OH, see? I told you!! Black people were the original people in New-Zealand!!! OHH what ever happened to this prosperous Black civilization that reached the most remote location in the World, OHHH those evil colonizers...."

[@Neoyorchese]

The same went to Spain, lots of celt descendents in northern spain and portugal

[@bowieupland6112]

A "Black Irish", is a white person with black hair, pale skin, and brown, blue or green eyes. (i.e. Jennifer Connolly, Colin Farrell)

[@Maidaseu]

Only used in the USA. As an Irish person we don’t use it.

[@bowieupland6112]

@@Maidaseu BTW: I was in Dublin recently... what a mess. What happened?

[@loots9821]

@@bowieupland6112 not blue or green eyes only dark brown eyes. Think typical Spanish but without the tan!

[@bowieupland6112]

@@loots9821 "Think typical Spanish" LOL. Have you ever been to Spain? Reddish hair, blonde hair, green eyes, blue eyes, and white skin... are common and the norm. Maybe you didn't know that Spain is in Europe and not in Latin America. That's why the "Armada" explanation is wrong.

[@loots9821]

@@bowieupland6112 apologies. What I meant was we get Spanish students to Ireland every year. Lots of them. And almost all of them have dark skin, eyes and hair. Very rarely you"ll see some with lighter hair. It's like saying the typical Scot has red hair, pale skin. That does not mean all. A lot of Irish have blue eyes, but not all. A lot of swedes are blonde but not all. You get my meaning.

[@ShonaBrown-th3ib]

My mother was Scots Irish ,jet black hair ,white skin and light blue eyes ,black Irish refers to the black hair ,thats it

[@user-zz7se7tw1x]

IRISH PEOPLE Iam ŕeading on these comments need to read a book and learn the history of the IRISH people Read Nature know no color line by JA Roger.

[@Old_Sailor85]

I had a co-worker that looked 100% Native American. Long black hair, dark complexion (he "looked Italian"), high cheekbones, dark eyes, etc. I finally asked him, he was 100% Irish. So much for phenotypes.

[@zyxwut321]

Irish people can sometimes be VERY dark, likely the Celtic influence (Celts were originally from various parts of the Mediterranean in ancient times). Think of Colin Farrell or Stephen Rea. Johnny Depp always thought he was Native American, and it ended up being that he's almost entirely white, mostly English with a smattering of other European ethnicities, and a very slight African-American percentage. Phenotypes at BEST point you in a general direction but are extemely shaky otherwise.

[@Old_Sailor85]

@@David-zv5xm Cleveland born and raised. West sider, then far west suburbs, then Lorain County, now Stark County. I worked in the evil Gas and Oil industry for 35 years.

[@garthlevy8275]

Have you ever heard of the Moors and their genetic nfluence on Ireland and Spain

[@Old_Sailor85]

@@garthlevy8275 I'm Sicilian, so yes, I'm very much aware of the influence of the Moors.

[@Old_Sailor85]

@@etruscancivilization No one said it does. Besides, there really isn't a difference in "race". Race is a human construct. It's just a different phenotype being expressed. We are all Homo Sapiens Sapiens, with a little Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis thrown in the mix for some folks. A wolf is a canine, so is a Chihuahua.

[@janicecurry4319]

They had mostly black hair and very blue eyes

[@Maidaseu]

Americans are obsessed with race. In Ireland no one is “black Irish”. - most people have black or brown hair. It’s just Irish. There’s no need for a label or categorisation.

[@onemysore6120]

The pagans still care. It’s from old pagan myths and that made people uncomfortable. But I’m positive half my family are changelings so I have no choice but accept it. 😅

[@davidkermes376]

no more obsessed than others. . i recall a time the swedes were being all holier than thou over race relations in the u.s. . they positively soiled their britches when an african american was named ambassador to sweden. They even talked of refusing to recognize him if he showed up.

[@Free.Clear3802]

This isn't actually a "race" thing. It's historical research across ethnicities that may have birthed a certain term.

[@Oluinneachain]

Writing from Ireland. The term “Black Irish “ is unknown here . The first time I heard it was when an Australian identified me as one because of my complexion, brown eyes and dark dark brown hair. So while I’m often mistaken as Mediterranean by Mediterraneans ,Tunisian by Tunisians, Pakistani by Pakistanis, I’m not particularly unique amongst the Irish from the west and especially the south west where I’m from. It’s nothing to do with the Spanish Armada. Recent DNA research by TCD university proves that the legacy of Early European Farmers - dark skinned , brown eyes, dark hair- who originated in contemporary Anatolia is highest in this region whereas the Steppe Beaker people ( Yamnaya- tall, fair skinned, blue eyes) who originated in contemporary Ukraine who arrived later have higher levels of dna elsewhere in the Irish population.

[@elleanna5869]

Translated : in Europe there are European brunettes. Since always and without any need for African ancestry. But this is US, as an African I now believe that real history is too boring for them 😁 and especially real African history because the fuss is making African "black" everything which isn t and ignoring everything that really is African and even black 😳 p.s. your Coptic dna could have traveled to you via your Italian side, since there was an intense communication among early Christian mediterranean communities - but of course it's impossible to know for certain .

[@darrellm9915]

Blue eyes and dark hair is also common in Ireland, which proves a mixture of Anatolian + Yamnaya in the population. But even a small portion of Anatolians themselves had blue eyes.

[@Neoyorchese]

Great view. Makes sense i am spanish italian, and do have traces of the british isles more locally ireland, but have more mediterranean skin and light brown hair ooops😊😊😊

[@nicolebell3973]

​@@elleanna5869 agreed

[@susancrawford5927]

My Mother told me about black Irish when I was about 7 years old, so 1957. She was born in Scotland, so it's a well known description. But it does not include dark skin. An example of black Irish colouring would be the actress Elizabeth Taylor, black hair, light eyes, usually blue and very pale skin.

[@Occident.]

"Black Irish" in Ireland refererd only to Black hair. Im of 95% Gael origin. The Irish are the palest skinned people on earth, and have the highest incidence of Blue eyes in the world.

[@DianneNash]

Green eyes...my daughter has blue/green eyes, less then 1% of the world have these color eyes. when both myself n her dad had blue eyes. He had blonde hair n I had brown w /Red highlights. My son is red haired w brown eyes n my daughter has black hair green eyes. Irish parents can have children w any color hair n eye color!

[@AtomicMushroomz]

Irish people are not the palest people on earth 🤣

[@redflag4255]

@@DianneNash Beautiful people the Irish.

[@lewzee2066]

Wrong

[@AlexEndorian]

I heard of Black Irish as an Irish/Irish-American person with dark hair and dark eyes, and tan skin. My mother's father used to tease his sisters that they were dark because of Native blood.

[@beatles127]

they were..

[@leeolie3728]

Where did that come from? Anthropology tells us now the original Irish and British were black skinned people who mixed and over time became lighter. Look up the Cheddar man.

[@rroadmap]

​@@leeolie3728But weren't all people originally dark-skinned? I was taught that White skin was a genetic mutation the same way blue eyes are. The lighter-skinned people survived better in the Northern climates where there is less sun and they need to absorb more Vitamin D. The darker-skinned people survived better in the climates closer to the equator where the sun is too hot for fair skin.

[@crazychicSHENA]

Fact's

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

​@@rroadmapIt depends on how you look at it. The animals that evolved into human beings originally had much more fur. Look under an animals fur sometime and you'll see they're incredibly white because the fur provides protection from UV radiation. As the fur was lost over the eons skin probably became darker as more melanin in the skin provided an evolutionary advantage. As humans left Africa and moved further north vitamin D production was more advantageous than UV protection so they evolved lighter skin. So did humans "originally" have light or dark skin? Both and neither.

[@naomihoover4265]

My Dad was black Irish. My Mom was English Irish. I’m so white you can see through me. My Dad was very dark with blue eyes and black hair. My Mom was very white with auburn red hair and blue eyes.

[@carmeldaly5566]

You must be a gorgeous family!

[@mala3isity]

LOL A friend of my Mom's in Florida said he needed shade to look at me. I like the see-through description. I've got some Celtic blood and I've found the Scottish part but I suspect there's Irish in there, too. Thinking about "what nationalities are you" question in history class, Mom said we had a tiny bit of Welsh blood but I haven't found that in my genealogy yet.

[@Manifestingmoon]

I have a Caucasian friend who told me she was black Irish. I asked her what that meant. She said she was half Native American and half white. The family used that term to hide the Native American bloodline. She grew up in Tennessee.

[@beatles127]

exactly, irish sounds white... otherwise she would not have been able to go to white schools..etc.

[@LoveLee-jz1tj]

My FL relatives tell the same story. My half blooded Creek)m/Irish great grandma said she used to stand out in the field to get more tanto attract an Irish husband. She had blue eyes and black hair, high cheekbones.

[@iolandaseixas2574]

A friend from the Caucasus region? Lol

[@MaisyK]

how did native americans cross the Atlantic?

[@cimmerian_savage9736]

​@@MaisyK as slaves

[@nicole-denicedevesti5625]

I'm Black Irish. We come from Galway Bay. We're of Moorish decent. My mom looked like a black Elizabeth Taylor with green eyes.

[@user-sg6sv9oi6i]

nicole-denicedevesti5625 - Wow! Your mother must have been beautiful ❤️

[@cooldaddy2877]

You are not of Moorish descent....stop it.

[@kc878]

Bullshit is what that is 😂

[@lauratyler4863]

Same my mother had dark hair and dark eyes. She was from country mayo. She said it was from Moors.

[@cooldaddy2877]

@@lauratyler4863 No, not true. I bet she does not have a Moorish surname.

[@jimorr820]

My mother always claimed that black Irish were those from the northwest of Ireland. After she died, my sister through genetic testing found we had an ancestor from the Sudan.

[@HOPROPHETA]

A theory is that the pre Celtic Fomorians lived in Ireland. They were called by some Black giants. Sudan has very dark skinned people and in some parts, very tall people. I saw some in D.C. They were tall, thin and Blue Black in hue.

[@crazychicSHENA]

​@@HOPROPHETAfact's

[@azborderlands]

I’ve seen Irish people with this look but they are from the Republic of Ireland and not the north

[@elleanna5869]

@@HOPROPHETA black Irish usually be like Welsh and aren't very tall. All Irish dna studies show no black African dna. Just Eurasian stuff... Sorry to say that , but the term " black Irish " in the US was an attempt to deny African ancestry or hide it if you mated with ADOS. The Sudan ancestors very likely come from that, not from Ireland. Blame Jim Crow for shaming black Africans as a catastrophe to be denied by any means

[@rebeccacamplin698]

Black Irish were white with black hair not red,

[@manitoulady5208]

My mother was referred to as black Irish when she was living in Boston because she was protestant

[@rebeccawalsh1462]

I heard the same thing exactly. Many times growing up.

[@WVWomanMarine]

I was told the same thing too.

[@mikewatson1936]

My father had jet black hair, pale white skin (burned easily while out in the sun), and light blue eyes. He was from a Catholic family and I was told he was of Black Irish descent.

[@user-rd1jj9wq8f]

Same as in Newfoundland- it refers to being Protestant as opposed to Catholic

[@jackieblue1267]

Yes that is what my Grandmother used to call Northern Ireland i.e. the black North and it was due to the Protestants. This was a long time ago. People don't say that now.

[@annmariemaciver8886]

Black Irish does not mean African blood. Black Irish are dark haired fair skin… Spaniards invaded Ireland.

[@darrellm9915]

The Spanish Armada story is a myth. No truth to it at all.

[@asturiasceltic3183]

Exactly...

[@asturiasceltic3183]

@@darrellm9915 The Irish, Asturians, Galicians and Basques are related. The Irish call us their cousins. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic territories along with Ireland.

[@1953childstar]

@@asturiasceltic3183 Yes, and the Basque influence gives us type O negative blood..

[@asturiasceltic3183]

@@1953childstar Up to 50% of Basques have the O-

[@thomasmeehan4060]

I understand this refers to Irish people with black hair and fair skin. Many in Ireland have these features.

[@asturiasceltic3183]

European Atlantic amongst women is where it's common, including Ireland, Asturias and Galicia who are related.

[@sheleavitt06]

When I was a teenager a stranger asked me and my sister what our ancestry was. I told him we were English, Irish, Scottish, and Danish. Then he tells us that couldn’t be right because we were “too dark for that”. He then proceeded to tell us about the Spanish armada like we’ve never heard about it and saying our Irish ancestors were clearly Spanish from the sailors jumping ship and marrying Irish girls🙄 I just couldn’t believe this guy. His whole reasoning was we were brunette and had brown/hazel eyes and therefore couldn’t be “white Anglo”. This guy clearly didn’t know the most common hair and eye color for the British Isles is brown. Also I was more familiar with my family tree than this rando. I knew from well documented family tree exactly what I was. My Irish ancestry wasn’t “black Irish” but Scots-Irish. They were Scotsmen who immigrated to Northern Ireland during the plantation era of the 1600s. Now obviously this stranger couldn’t have known that so he should have expected my simplified answer instead of making up a fan fiction of my own family history.

[@gregrogers6886]

My mother had told me back in the 1950s my father was black Irish, that he had come from Ireland, and his relatives had come from Castile in Spain where the Spaniards are blond and blue-eyed. My father had tanned skin with blond and blue eyes, he was striking to look at.

[@letsdothis9063]

Bingo!

[@sharkwantscoffee]

So hes Spanish?

[@bethel1242]

Is it wrong to order a Black Russian while I watch this?😅

[@nytn]

lol....I have a black coffee right now. I think were good

[@jdee3421]

@@nytn Would that be a black Irish coffee you're drinking??

[@nytn]

lol, I need to try one, I never have!

[@willardpritchard5186]

😂😂😂😂

[@dckatyx9577]

It depends on what you order him to do. 🤷‍♂️

[@robertrobert7924]

There used to be a guy that worked at my gun club shooting range whose facial features looked like me so much that when I looked at him, I felt like I was looking in a mirror. One day I approached him and asked him if he could see the resemblance. He said he did. I asked him if he had Cherokee or Irish ancestry like me. He said he did. From that day on he referred to me as "his brother from another Mother. My Irish Grandmother had black hair black hair, blue eyes, and flawless lily white skin. My Scots-Cherokee grandfather had black hair, grey eyes, and brown skin.

[@warringtonfaust1088]

As to "not used in Ireland", I can recall that my Irish grandfather, an immigrant from Ireland, used the term. I have heard the Spanish invasion theory.

[@thecleaningteacher638]

My grandmother, born in Tennessee in 1908, referred to our family as Black Dutch. Since I’ve been digging in to this topic, I’m intrigued and perplexed. Thanks for the video!

[@JudgeJulieLit]

"Black Dutch" sounds a valid geno- and phenotype, having African and Dutch ancestry. Dutch alone tends to have light eyes and hair.

[@donovanfoto3263]

Black Dutch may have something to do with a Christmas tradition, Black Pete. Santa Claus brings toys to the GOOD children. Black Pete retrieves the BAD CHILDREN to manufacture the toys for next year. Good has it's rewards, bad has it's punishments. I am not sure how this relates though. It is a centuries old tradition in Holland.

[@d.kyrstede3556]

The term "Black Irish" was initially used in the 19th and 20th centuries by Irish-Americans to describe people of Irish descent who have black or dark-coloured hair, blue or dark eyes, or otherwise dark colouring.

[@jonlynnholley9199]

In the movie Queen by Alex Haley, Queen passed as white for awhile by telling people she was French. She said that to explain her olive like skin and dark hair. She actually was of Irish descent though. Her father's father was Irish. However, her mother's side was African and Native American descent. You should watch the movie. It's a depiction of Alex Haley's grandmother.

[@theinsideoutlife1508]

My great grand mother was also Irish and African. She married a Black American. And my grandmother married a Black American. I have aunts and cousins who identify as Black Americans and were born with red hair

[@lonestar1637]

That’s a good movie.

[@jonlynnholley9199]

@@theinsideoutlife1508 I too have Irish ancestry. My great grandmother's father was from Ireland. Her mother was Trinidadian. She grew up there the moved to the states. She married a black man.

[@beatles127]

typical black irish description

[@laurencresap603]

Alex Haley was a fraud who tried to pass off fiction as historical fact. There's nothing to believe from a race hustler and grifter

[@ndr226]

What a fascinating story. I knew a married couple whose wife belived in oral family history, that she was Norwegian, and that her husband belived in his irish heritage. Many years later they did a DNA test and learned she was irish and he was Norwegian. We need to remember for how long different groups of people interacted genetically through choice or force.

[@ndr226]

@@etruscancivilization nationality = citizenship. ethnicity = Irish. How's that? For example German national vs ethnic German. The term irish can be used when we discuss their ethnicity and nationality.

[@amyapplegate4356]

Belived?

[@jackieblue1267]

@@etruscancivilization It also an ethnicity like Japanese or Chinese.

[@jackieblue1267]

@@etruscancivilization Agree. If I went to live in Nigeria they wouldn't count me as Nigerian.

[@harmonys2102]

Such a good point. A story of Native American ancestry was passed down through my mother’s line, complete with details about the native woman’s temperament being meaner than a rattlesnake. My mother totally looked Native American with tan skin, long black hair, and a rounded face. Then I got a DNA test and it showed virtually no Native American ancestry (only about 1%). So yeah, you really can’t trust the family stories.

[@grantmarshall3026]

Until I got myDNA results in February I knew nothing of how diverse my ancestry was. I was however a history nerd and always absorbing population movements arising from the out of Africa migrations around 50,000 years ago, and how civilisation came to being. . I live in Ireland, the occupied 6 counties to be precise. Little prepared me (and other recipients of their DNA results, no doubt) for my connection to the West Indies. When I was in my teenage years my dad and I were watching cricket when Malcolm Marshall came on to bowl. My dad said “there’s my cousin “! I said dad, we’re white, he’s black” (i was only around 13), and my dad said “what do you mean?”, my immaturity at the time I never thought it possible , until my dad explained how this could be! Genetically percentsge wise, I’m 26 percent Irish, 57 percent Scottish, 11 percent English, 3 percent Welsh and 3 percent danish. My dad and I are both white with dark hair and eyes and we both go a nice brown shade when it’s sunny! My ancestry DNA communities are West Indian, East African, Basque, Louisiana creole, French Acadian, Irish in Newfoundland (with the best accent in the world), and indigenous peoples of South America. These are only a tiny portion of communities that make up who I am. I’ve discovered that I have a famous Jamaican 3rd cousin who was a bass guitarist in the reggae and ska music genres of the Caribbean. I’m pretty sure he can confirm the Malcolm Marshall story. Ps Donnelly and Perot (Perrault) are definitely in there as family names. A lot of Irish were sent as slaves or indentured servants to the Caribbean to produce sugar cane and cotton, making way for Ulster Plantations.

[@katiemac5661]

Black Irish normally refers to darked haired people with light eyes. The original Celts were dark haired and dark eyed. They came from the north of Spain and were called Milesians. We have some shared traits with Basque populations. When mixed with Viking influence and genes light eyes came into play. The Spanish Armada claim is rubbish

[@randyman38901]

My paternal grandmother was descended from melungeon ancestry. She grew up in that part of Appalachia and her maiden name was one of the handful of known melungeon names. After doing my DNA I’ve found that I’m mostly English, next Scottish, and Ivory Coast African. I’m 68 years old, was blonde with blue eyes(now white and balding), but I’ve shown people some very old photos of my grandmothers family and some people instantly say something about them looking black.

[@HOPROPHETA]

Take a look at Dwight D Eisenhower's mother. One photo she clearly looks like a melanated indigenous woman

[@Slievenamon]

I am full-blooded Irish, born and raised. It is quite simple really. We consist of Blue eyed, dark haired, Western Hunter Gatherers and brown eyed, light haired, Neolithic Farmers. And the same goes for all unmixed Europeans. As for Red hair, that is a polygenic trait. The amount of Western Hunter Gatherer DNA increases the further North you go in Europe. To the South, Sardinians contain the most Neolithic Farmer DNA.

[@jackieblue1267]

Don't forget the Steppe Herders (Bell Beakers) who have made the biggest contribution to the Irish gene pool.

[@Slievenamon]

@@jackieblue1267 The Bell Beaker is the Bronze Age, they descend from the aforementioned people as does the Celts etc.

[@jackieblue1267]

@@Slievenamon The Bell Beakers however nearly completely replaced the other populations in Ireland. They don't descend from the older Farmers and HGs in Ireland. There was a big population turnover when the Bell Beakers came to Ireland.

[@catbehindthecurtain]

My dad's mom used to always say we were 'black Irish'... until she found ancestors listed as FPC on the Chickasaw Dawes Rolls; after that we were just Irish. Our family records showed several of those 'black Irish' married German settlers in the Mississippi area.

[@smacwhinnie]

Black Irish are simply Irish people with fair skin and very. dark hair. Not all Celts are red or blonde, nor are all Nordics. Many Northern Europeans have dark brown or black hair. Celts tended dark before being impacted by Normans and Vikings. As far as the expression being used to cover or explain away mixed racial heritage in the diaspora, i suppose that’s possible, but non caucasian features tend to be strongly evident

[@martinemjt]

i always thought black irish had dark dark hair and light eyes!!{blue}

[@popscoulter7587]

Both my maternal and paternal ancestors were on the Americas and moved inland before the American revolution settling in what would become Florida and Appalchia. I was told we were black irish to explain the black hair and brown eyes. DNA now shows remnantsof tri-racial ancestry. When asked my ancestry I just go with American. We're all mixed anyway if you're here.

[@TranquiloTrev]

There was a study about 10 years ago that resulted in a book called "American DNA" [I think]. Anyway it concluded that every white person in the South had black "African" DNA. Yes, we are all mixed.

[@beatles127]

black irish means you are bi racial...bottom line.

[@erichimes3062]

Not me.

[@user-gw1dr7rt9b]

Very true. If anyone lives here long enough, their line eventually mixes with others.

[@cimmerian_savage9736]

​@@user-gw1dr7rt9b not true

[@aftershock2222]

The idea that the Black Irish originated with the Spanish sailers is cool. However, in college my anthropology professor disagreed. She said there wouldn’t have been enough of them to influence the Irish gene pool.

[@sallyintucson]

I’ve heard that story too.

[@zyxwut321]

Perhaps. But I'm solidly 1/2 Irish, 1/2 Polish descent (my ancestors are well traced and almost entirely late 19th, early 20th century Ellis Island stock) and my parents came from New York. When I took my various DNA tests, Iberian Peninsula kept coming up, often a solid 5-10 percent. My paternal Irish side had relatives who came directly from Cork, a seaside trading port and presumably the receiving point of various waves, however small, of Spanish settlers. My paternal grandfather could've almost passed for Mediterranean with a short (5'6"), stocky but solid build, dark hair and eyes and prominent nose and other features. It might be overstated to some degree, but it definitely happened on some level.

[@MWhaleK]

Especially given that Ireland historically has connections to Iberia.

[@Richard-gp5tg]

There weren't.

[@Richard-gp5tg]

Black Irish have black hair....porcelin skin and blue eyes.

[@jimpage6533]

The term was also used something like the term " Black Sheep" someone who could not be tamed or was outside the norm!

[@sallypursell1284]

I'm joining to say that I, too, am Irish, and I have some DNA identified from Viking lands. My whole family had very pale skin, very dark brown hair with red highlights, and dark brown eyes. I was always told I was Black Irish, but the explanation I got from my mother was just that this meant I was Irish, with dark hair and eyes. No one could be paler than I am! The only other DNA I have is from Germany.

[@sheilamesick5964]

My father was born and raised in Adair County. His mother had olive skin that darkened when working in the sun. She referred to herself as “your ole black maw”. She was born in Kentucky as was her mother. The next grandma was referred to as “black Dutch” , dark skinned, fair hair, and lively blue eyes. She was the second wife to Big John Harvey who came from Ireland. So I find your research very interesting.

[@e.urbach7780]

I read that the dark hair and eye color in Ireland, Scotland, and Northern England was from the Picts, one of the ancient tribes of the British Isles, who were supposed to have had dark hair and eyes. Very interesting!

[@rettawhinnery]

The Irish named "Dublin" (from "dubh" meaning "black" and "linn" meaning "pool" or "pond") for the Vikings, because they considered them as dark invaders from the north.

[@laurah2831]

And Blackpool in England just across the water. Welsh are also similar colouring

[@tknows470]

@@laurah2831my mom’s grandmother told her that her husband’s family from Wales had the same coloring as my Mexican Dad so your information would support that!

[@alunevans380]

@@laurah2831 Every indigenous welsh person i've ever seen was white, some got a tan in summer lol.

[@laurah2831]

@@tknows470 there’s a famous boxer who epitomises the type, his name escapes me

[@tomandlynnwilliams576]

Being mostly Irish, my father was always referred to as black Irish, because he had jet black hair, green eyes, and pearl white skin. It was taught to my family, the term coming from Spanish Armada possibly, but when I did an ancestry test, it didn’t show any Spanish ancestry, but northern France. Have you even seen pics from magazines where the model was in France for a shoot, she had jet black hair, green or dark eyes and pearl white skin? They where also his features. They say this could be also from the Spanish decent. I don’t know, here I am, take me as I am. Just a thought. Also I’m third generation in America.

[@georgecisneros5281]

It’s funny that with the “stranded Spanish Armada” story they present the Spanish as this dark swarthy element in contrast to the Irish they allegedly mingled with, yet when they portray the Spanish during their contact with the natives of the Americas near the same time period, they then show those same kind of Spanish as basically lily white red heads and the like.😆

[@asturiasceltic3183]

I do have pale red heads in my family so I don't know what's so funny. It's not that uncommon in Northwest Spain.

[@missmangopudding]

​@@asturiasceltic3183​they're saying its funny, because the representations are much different than each other. In reality, the Spanish Armada explanation for the existence of dark-haired Irish people doesn't necessarily hold up since, like you said, Spanish people can have different hair colors and appearances than just dark hair and skin.

[@albertbradfield1945]

The "Black Irish" refers to the "Old Folk" that lived in the south-west of Ireland who were of the strain of Neolithic farmers who had been living there for about 4000 years. They were known for their black hair and white skin. My great-grandmother was ""Black Irish", and many of our family share many of those traits , that came to America with the Irish in the 19th Century.

[@asturiasceltic3183]

Dark hair and white skin is Celtic coloring, especially amongst women along the European Atlantic.

[@thomasmeehan4060]

This is a term not fully understood in America. I first heard of it in the 1960's. I think it still refers to people with fair skin and black hair who are from Ireland or have Irish ancesters. You might want to look at Australia as many Irish were sent there as criminals. Note the Song : "The Fields of Athenry". Sung at many Six Nations Rugby matches by the home fans.

[@tru2love610]

My grandma would talk like her Irish uncles, I was told by her last living sister that they moved from SC to NY & we are in Jersey, I have found the link in my families census but havent done the complete research yet. I did read where the Irishmen invaded & took over the part of SC my family is from. It’s a shame what the U. S. has done to so many of us & many of us will never know who we really are. Even some papers were changed by or completely falsified by census workers.

[@nytn]

I hope you can keep digging!

[@robertmarley8852]

We injuns over here 👀

[@Calhorsey]

I worked with a woman named Maureen Kelley who referred to herself as black Irish. She had fair skin and blue eyes, but naturally black hair. It's quite a striking combo.

[@moccasinlanding]

I'm so glad you brought up BLACK IRISH...... back in the 1950s I was engaged to a young man who was 1st generation Irish born in New England. My MOTHER OBJECTED to this relationship, and secretly broke us up then. I did not understand then what was her objection. Never learned....but in 2006 --50 years later-- we reconnected and finnally married. HE WAS BLACK IRISH....and the tale you tell is that told by Bill's father about the Spanish Armada sailors welcomed ashore with open arms by the Irish. After all, ANY ENEMY OF THE ENGLISH WAS A FRIEND OF THE IRISH.

[@user-sg6sv9oi6i]

Many years ago, I dated a fella who referred to himself as Black Irish. He had dark skin, extremely beautiful blue eyes and very dark wavy hair. He was quite a looker. Thank you for sharing this video. ❤️

[@tiffanyjames7150]

My great grandmother said we had black Irish in our family all settled in north Louisiana. My mother and I had olive complexion, brown eyes and brown hair, while most everyone in the family had pale complexions and blue or green eyes. It was rumored we had Native American in our family also, but never found it. We never knew what black Irish meant, we just assumed it meant we had black ancestors. I’m leaving more towards miludgeon theory.

[@mollyt6835]

I grew up in Montana, and I heard this term from time to time. People referred to themselves as black Irish if they had dark hair. Ive also heard black Norwegian. This is a funny subject to me, because I have red hair, but my parents both had very dark, almost black hair. One year on St Patrick’s day when I was at school, my teacher told me that I’m Irish. When I got home that day, I asked my dad if I’m Irish, because my teacher told me I am. And he was like “No. We are not Irish”. Lo and behold, according to my DNA test, I am 😂. But this is exactly why I am so interested in DNA and family stories. I was called the “red headed step child” because no one else had the red hair but me!

[@lgude]

My dad used the term of himself. His mother Molly Dore's parents were from County Cork. He was born in 1911 and he and his two older brothers all had dark kinky hair - closer to the kinkiness of Black African hair but not loosely curled or wavy hair. His complexion was not pale, but wouldn't be called olive either. So I heard the Armada theory from him with the added point that Cork is on the south coast of Ireland where the Spaniards washed up. He was half German and half Irish and we have done enough genealogical research to know that all our forebears came from Europe and appear in census data from about 1850. I accepted this family story on face value pretty much the same way Elizabeth Warren took her family story of Native American ancestry before the days of DNA testing. I grew up in northern New England in the 40s and 50s in a tiny town settled in 1760 when having Indian ancestry was not openly talked about. I was not surprised when it became ok or even good to have such a background that many of the families I grew up with began to allow they had Native American ancestors - and that grandparents and others had passed down such knowledge very privately. Unlike those city folks down at Harvard these modest people did not try to make it an advantage. That's a swipe at Harvard, not Elizabeth Warren, who I believe acted in good faith despite our politics being quite different! Given your research and my own DNA analysis my dad and his DNA seem to come entirely from Europe and all settled in NYC over the course of the second half of the 20th century. I would add I live in Australia and have long been friends with an Aboriginal woman who is half Irish. Her Irish Grandfather and Aboriginal grandmother were not allowed to live together under Western Australian state law. This case is getting on for 100 years ago by now and she has researched it in the state archives and even discovered that the Irish grandfather was often in trouble for visiting his children and their mother. Because she identifies as Aboriginal and I find her personality and sense of humour pretty Irish I like to kid her about being as Irish, but in fairness she is primarily Aboriginal in her culture, and I have learned a great deal from her over the years. One of the obvious genetic characteristics of Aborigines is that when they mix with European blood they can easily have light - even blond - straight hair and blue eyes. I remember seeing a boy of about 7 in the bush with long straight hair streaked with blonde, spearing a bird with practiced skill. The Western Australian playwright Jack Davis had quite dark skin but penetrating blue eyes he said came from an Afghan camel driver employed to operate the camel trains that supplied the goldfields in Kalgoorlie in the early 20th century. You've convinced me that the Armada theory is probably more romance than fact.

[@graemecraig07]

I've loved reading your response. My 2 cents worth is added in the comments, 'tho not as erudite yours. I'm now staunchly West Australian, have Aboriginal friends, some extended members of Aboriginal heritage, whose resilience and peaceful, gentle nature, along with a generosity of spirit, open and friendly to other cultures. Some of my family feel closer to, and more aligned with Aboriginal society after alienation from their white side because of shame over having mixed blood. Some of my extended family with Aboriginal heritage now have artwork on permanent display in Australian State galleries. One gentleman (he was my age, we got along famously having mad-cap adventures together) in particular had mixed Chinese, Irish, and Aboriginal ancestry. His name was Johny Johnson (deceased), he was from Darwin, had a family with my (white) cousin, and painted Dingo Dreaming, now in the Australian National Gallery.

[@NJStgo]

My Dad’s maternal grandparents were from counties Donegal and Monaghan. His grandmother had dark hair, brown eyes, and a darker skin tone. Family folklore was she was descended from the Spaniards that were shipwrecked during the Armada hence Black Irish. My understanding is the Celts were dark haired with dark eyes and darker skin. The red hair, light skin and eyes came from the Nordic invaders.

[@jackieblue1267]

Red hair didn't come from the Norwegians. It reaches a maximum in the Irish and Scots. It was more likely that red hair increased on the west coast of Norway due to Irish and Scots brought back to Norway not the other way around. Irish today are majority fair skinned and blue eyed with a range of hair colouring so the original population would have been like that. Celts anyway came from Central Europe so would have been varied as well. There is a lot of myths about populations.

[@notamused3715]

My parents were Tipperary born, bred and buttered, the two of them! My maternal GM and one of my aunts and one of my uncles on my mam's side had brown eyes and sallow skin as well as very dark hair but never once did I hear them use the term "black Irish". It's just not a term native Irish people use. Most indigenous, native born, bred and buttered Paddies and Bridies have blue eyes, very white, freckly skin that is often reddened by the wind and rain and varying shades of brown hair. A small few are like my Nan and aunt and uncle but a small few are red haired, which Irish people used to call "foxy" when I was a kid but no one thinks of any of them as "black Irish" or "white Irish" or even "foxy Irish"- they're just IRISH!

[@Gatsby18]

Some of my northern Alabama relatives were native Americans who told authorities that they were black Dutch to avoid deportation to the trail of tears. My father told me that some of the people from our area who were and still are very religious were called black ass Dutch because the women who first came over wore black from head to toe. I have an old photograph of a great great grandmother dressed that way and the only part of her that you could see was her white face.

[@PhDGoldVee]

learning about ancient Ireland and wales really opened up my mind and gave a glimpse into a time without race divisions. You either could read and conduct yourself as a society or you could not. Some of these comments are hard to digest as I believe the Druidic knowledge shaped the world as we know it. Ireland was an international hub with everyone visiting Bru na Boinne - everyone! Some stayed and left their DNA … Michael Tsarion will have research on this (as well as other areas) and there are records from the Cromwell expulsion and shipping logs

[@HOPROPHETA]

Pierce Brosnan= Black Irish. Some say the Black Orish are descendants of the Fomprians who inhabited the isle before the Celts. Some say Fomorians were Black people.

[@elleanna5869]

Yet no African dna. Some say "black" but Americans understand "African". Because that's what Jim Crow told them 🙄

[@rettawhinnery]

My dad had black hair, pasty white skin, and interesting eyes. They were brown with gold flecks in the center and a blue ring around the outer edge. He had no idea that his ancestors came to America from Ireland in 1729. My mother had black hair, tanned skin, and blue eyes. Her ancestors were from Germany and England. I have the pasty white skin, light brown hair, and hazel eyes. Someone in my car pool in college asked me if my mother was American Indian. Now, they didn't think that I was, but they thought my mother was. Go figure. Phenotype doesn't really tell you much.

[@Cactus_Hugs]

My mother always said she was Black Irish. She had almost jet black hair and dark brown eyes and porcelain white skin. I took an ancestry DNA test and they break it down by parent. Her ethnicity is Irish, English, Swedish and Scottish.

[@tonym7919]

I've heard the theory that the original Celtic inhabitants of the British Isles prior to invasions from Vikings, Romans, and Normans were darker with a slightly more Mediterranean appearance. There are plenty of Irish and Welsh people who could pass as Mediterranean despite ancestry tests showing they're 100 percent from the British Isles. I don't personally believe this phenomenon is tied to America, because I've met plenty of people from Ireland, or people with both parents being born in Ireland, who look this way.

[@redbeardsbirds3747]

The Welsh actor John Rhys-Davies could easily pass as Spanish or Italian.

[@elleanna5869]

@@redbeardsbirds3747 tbh also Pierce Brosnan , Colin Farrell (and many British actors too - think of Dirk Bogarde)

[@sharkwantscoffee]

​@@elleanna5869they have a light tan at best. Have u ever seen a Mediterranean before?

[@sharkwantscoffee]

​@@redbeardsbirds3747maybe northern Italian where ppl are fair skinned. He does not look Mediterranean

[@elleanna5869]

@@sharkwantscoffee have you ever seen an Italian from Italy? The ones with light and porcelain skin are abundant; and no, not just in Northern Italy. I spent a lot of time in Sicily, fair skin people there aren't exceptional. Another Italian who could very well pass for "black Irish" is former football player Paolo Maldini (who's from Milan) . Mediterranean meaning only "brown" or dark skin and North Italians looking only pale is another misconception.

[@thumbstruck]

There are also "Black Norwegians" - dark eyes and hair. Ireland, Britain, France, and the Iberian Penninsula were mainly Celtic based. Red hair got to Scotland and Ireland with the Norse settling on the coasts.

[@bluetinsel7099]

@@thumbstruck old references refer to complexion of skin with colour and not hair or features. They say it outright.

[@urrywest]

Any progeny can have a darker tone via genetics.

[@militantlymarginal]

No. Red hair was among the Irish, for one, before Norse colonization. Furthermore, Vikings were definitely not where red hair comes from - it originated in Central Asia.

[@thumbstruck]

@@militantlymarginal Norse carried those genes. Cork and Dublin started as Viking trading posts. The island folks between Scotland and Ireland have a high % of Norse DNA. People moved, mixed, shared recipes.

[@thumbstruck]

@@urrywest Right! It's all in the DNA mix!

[@montfordpointmarines9474]

Kurimeo Ahau, does outstanding research on this topic.

[@hunibuni]

She entirely skipped over the identity of the so called "black irish" that Kurimeo and many others have discussed and provided primary source documentation of, Such videos come up when you search, so I just don't think she wants to go there. But those of us who know, know. This is not a mystery to us.

[@montfordpointmarines9474]

@@hunibuni , "dodge the hijack". Her videos are watered down.

[@azborderlands]

His readings are not acknowledged documented facts though. A lot of unknown authors., a lot of recent authors and pure speculation. He doesn’t have all the facts.

[@elleanna5869]

@@azborderlands He just monetizes some black Americans huge frustration to be precise, but this is a businnes like many others now. Platforns explode with this kind of fake content. (Edit : it's very easy to sound "academia" without being such, since as I could see with my own eyes, not even colleges and universities of "prestige" in the US teach their students how to value proper sources, how to read data and stats et all... So people just go by "what I emotionally need to be true? Deal sealed🙄"

[@montfordpointmarines9474]

The mere fact that you're using the term "black" (a crayon color), to describe melanated folk(s), indigenous to the western hemisphere, let's me know that indoctrination is still being taught in the western hemisphere educational system. Kurimeo Ahau, rips the veil on indoctrination.

[@Richard-gp5tg]

No, not Moorish....Celto-Iberian.

[@bluestrife28]

Yeah this is an odd topic for Americans. I remember a group of Britons came in and only one had dark hair and light skin and she referred to herself in front of me and two black girls as “the colored one.” People really gotta remember this is one helluva literal and racist country we don’t even know how to do anything anymore until they can cleanse the last two hundred years off of us.

[@sarabelden7092]

My husband's grandfather was adopted and was told by his mother he was black Irish. The man had blue blue eyes, very fair skin and bright red hair. No one ever knew where she came up with that term or why she used it for him. When home DNA test kits became an affordable thing they sent my husband's grandfather's DNA off to be tested. He had aborigine heritage, (which explained my husband's hair). We think when his great grandparents adopted my husband's grandfather they were told by the adoption agency that he was black Irish, meaning he had aboriginals blood in him. That's the only thing that seems to make sense to everyone because of his blue eyes, fair skin, and red hair.

[@adrianwoods7720]

A lot of people like me with British ancestry who have taken a DNA test have some percentage of Iberian ancestry. Supposedly the British isles were populated in part by Iberian fisherman migrating up the French coast and across the English channel thousands of years ago. These people would no doubt have been dark haired and eyed. They mixed with pale Celts and Scandinavians which is why people from the British Isles can run the gamut when it comes to hair, skin and eye color.

[@thabomuso2575]

Nice presentation, but I suggest that you study Irish history more intensively. As for the Spanish Armada, some Spanish sailors did indeed manage to get to the Atlantic coast of Ireland. Most of them were killed quickly by Irish peasants who stole what ever assets they had on them. Spanish soldiers would only be more mouths to feed fo a very poor local population and pose a danger as they would provoke attacks by the English army. As for the Vikings yes they were certainly not dark but also, they weren't really "driven out" by the Irish. Viking kingdoms were eventually crushed by local Irish kingdoms, but Viking descendants largely stayed on in Ireland and integrated into Irish culture. They also became christian in Ireland. On the other hand, the Vikings founded Dublin and other important settlements in Ireland. And Viking descendants were certainly not considered as having lower standing in Irish society.

[@nytn]

thank you for adding this! this is all new history to me

[@brendankane3546]

So that we may all "study Irish history more intensely" Please tell us what books you found your information in.Was it a quick glance at Wiki ? it seems very strange that the ill-fated Spanish Armada,being pursued by the English Navy would be "Killed quickly by Irish peasants" because they would be "more mouths to feed" Wow,i cannot wait to read the books that back up this weird theory..Please don't be bashful.......

[@thabomuso2575]

​@@brendankane3546 I found the information quite a few years ago in a drama documentary about the Spanish Armada. That documentary even depicted some Spanish sailors crawling onto the rocks of the west coast of Ireland and Irish peasants killing most of those who got ashore. The majority of Spanish sailors and soldiers drowned at sea and most ships and sailors and soldiers were lost in the Atlantic outside of Ireland. And again, most of the survivors got killed as they crawled ashore. Any money, clothes or other belongings that the Spanish brought with them was taken. That was also depicted in the documentary. I shall try to find the documentary again. I shall also look into the course litterature from college that I kept all these years. Having a limited number of enemy soldiers was only a burden and a danger for the reasons that I described in my post but sure, I don't mind delve further into it since that is what you are asking for. I have studied history and teach history in high school and history has always been a favorite past-time of mine, so I am happy to get this opportunity to provide sources. Let me get back to you as soon as I can. 🙂

[@brendankane3546]

@@thabomuso2575 so,it was improv,based on a un-named "drama documentary"-that is your idea of "studying Irish history more intensely"- you have admittedly not read one book on the subject!!

[@thabomuso2575]

@@brendankane3546 Did you fail to see that I have course litterature on the subject as well? I have it right in front of me so hold on. You will get the page numbers, ISBN numbers and everything else. Maybe I shall send you videos of mr holding the books with the relevant page numbers? I would be happy to do so. I can show you my library as well, no problem. And If I find this particular drama documentary I shall certainly provide the link. There are numerous more recent documentaries on the Spanish Armada that I will give specific sources and time stamps to.

[@magiegainey5036]

I was told growing up t at “black Irish“ were Irish people with dark hair and dark eyes.

[@marijakurosaki3967]

A lady who I worked with has Irish ancestry. She showed me pictures of her sisters one day. She has a sister with blonde hair and a younger sister with pitch black hair. My colleague told me that her sister is the only one in her family with that very dark hair, but everyone else has red (like my colleague), blond or brown hair. Being Irish doesn't always equal being red headed with green eyes and translucent white skin. I took the Ancestry test and found out that I'm 4% Irish. Not a lot, but it was a shock to me. I never would've guessed it.

[@JudgeJulieLit]

That variety of looks among siblings accords with the findings of late 19th century pioneer botanist geneticist Gregor Mendel. He found that if he bred a red rose with a white, of four offspring, one was red, one white, and two were pink. But even that was a random toss of the parents' genetic dice, as in the first and future generations, different phenotypic colors could appear. Some genes lie dormant in a gene pool, and may only express after a few to many generations.

[@christinechapman3004]

I used to work for a Guinness beer distributor. Some reps from Ireland came to visit and one of them had dark skin but not black features. I asked our manager about him and he said “ he is black Irish”. I had never heard the term and I live in Massachusetts which has a very large amount of Irish immigrants.

[@levitation25]

Mediterranean looking British and Irish people have features from the earlier settlers of Britain and Ireland while the fairer, lighter or ginger looking people have features from later settlers. The Armada theory is a bit of a myth to try to explain dark haired Irish people. I've always associated the term 'Black Irish' with Americans tracing their family history and trying to explain why their Irish ancestors didn't have ginger hair and freckles.

[@AnMuiren]

There has always been and continues to be a stigma across Ireland associated with being mixed race and non-white Irish. It takes little effort to find hundreds of KZbin interviews with Irish people who have African ancestry facing discrimination despite the families of some having been Irish citizens for generations and fluent in Gaeilge (Irish language). There are many good folk working against ignorance and bigotry, like the Irish-based project named GORM, an intercultural consultancy with offices in Dublin.

[@Percept2024]

AnMurien , you are correct !! I watch newses and documentaries from many countries and I think Danielle would be shocked by how much anti-Black / anti-African immigrant sentiment there is in the Republic of Ireland. One of the anti-Black rebel rousers is Niall McConnell.

[@patmcgroin6916]

LOL...anyone in the family tree from once "questionable" dusky background was often termed "black Irish". Like I said once, I'm pretty sure my "black Irish" ancestor was almost certainly Sephardic Jewish. This sort of "passing" also occurred in regard to Jews in America as well. My uncle Benjamin Sauls was from around Charleston, SC, home to a Sephardic Jewish community since its founding, was most assuredly a good old Scottish Presbyterian with a coat of arms he'd paid for to prove it. During WW2 he was mistaken by Jewish servicemen twice and asked if he wanted to go to synagogue with, and as he aged he really came to look more and more like...an old Jewish man, ha ha! Uncle Ben was my favorite uncle by far, by the way. RIP. As a side note, Billy Connolly, Scottish actor and comedian, found a sliver of Asian Indian in his DNA a few years back, not unlike many other pure British Brits... Look up actress Merle Oberon if interested, who was roughly half Indian and Maori during the age of the silver screen. Keep up the great work!

[@Marie-lf8ut]

Your teacher assumed anyone with red hair was Irish. That doesn't explain blond or red hair in countries like Africa or South America.

[@TukwilaRed1974]

I’m a redhead and everybody assumes that I’m Irish. I’m actually Chicano - Polish. When I was in college at California State University Bakersfield, we had an undocumented worker working on the staff. He was a black haired Irish guy.

[@tknows470]

You might be interested in Los Patricios - Irish soldiers who defected and fought with the Mexican side in the Mexican American War. My family has Irish/Wales in our Mexican line. 🎉 I have not been able to find the link yet, but hope is eternal…

[@TukwilaRed1974]

@@tknows470 oh I’ve definitely read about the los Patricios.

[@bunnygal778]

I am also of Mexican-Polish ethnicity!

[@TukwilaRed1974]

@@bunnygal778 Catholic on both sides?

[@gingw7333]

My Dad was Scots/Irish. He was referred to as Black Irish due to dark hair and eyes and though his skin was quite pale, he tanned darkly without freckling or burning. Strange how people get labled when all they are is human.

[@kierangoddard2198]

I am from Dublin and we always referred to Black Irish was dark haired people who usually came from the Wexford and Waterford area which are on the South East Coast.

[@catherinedonohue2662]

Truth is afew thousand years ago many people moved from near the mid east and israel area across to Europe all the way to N west Europe . The celtic languages are the only languages in Europe that can talk in conversation at times backwards. The mid east areas have the same rules to the laguages as irish language. No place in Europe has this.

[@davidirwin1549]

I believe the terms "Black Irish", "Black Dutch" or more commonly white people saying they were part Cherokee or "French" all has it's roots in 1800's and 1900's USA regarding White American's who were darker than the incoming White immigrants from Europe. These White American's were mainly of early Colonial American stock mainly form colonial Virginia and the Carolina's and mid Atlantic States dating back to the 1600's. They are the descendants in large part of indentured servants from the British Isles (English, Scottish and Irish) whose colonial ancestor's most likely may have mixed with both African and Native American Indentured servants on the Tobacco Plantations or early Virginia and also may have been the offspring of the refugees of Dutch Brazil who landed in the New York/New Amsterdam area than included New Jersey and Pennsylvania and were taken in by the Pennsylvania Dutch and those in the Tidewater areas would later move westward intermarrying with Scots-Irish. Later generations would see various family members who were darker with curly hair and try to find an explanation for it (thus the terms). They probably had no idea of their earlier ancestors until recent years with DNA testing are now finding traces of African and Native American DNA in their background due to the earlier colonial 1600's intermixing.

[@davidirwin1549]

@@David-zv5xm You are wrong. Leading geneticists have researched the subject and have made this determination based both on DNA (it can go back to the 1600's) and physical looks in inheritance can skip several generations and reappear in certain individuals in later generations to a degree.

[@Oluinneachain]

@@David-zv5xm😂

[@davidirwin1549]

@@David-zv5xm So you don't believe in science or facts do you "bro" ??

[@davidirwin1549]

@@David-zv5xmisn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black y’all !

[@skssuccess75]

I first heard this term from a coworker from New York about 15 years ago. She told me that one lineage of her family were Black Irish. I did a little more research and what i found is that many of the Moors were being kicked out of Spain, Portugal and France because of religion. Many of them scattered throughout Europe during the Spanish Inquisition. One of the places was Ireland and they mixed with the population there.

[@Oluinneachain]

Sorry not true regarding moriscoes seeing refuge in Ireland.

[@undistortedX]

As a Dutchman I can say we don't have and don't use the term 'Black Dutch' for centuries. What I do know is that 'Black Dutch' is a term used to cover up Jewish ancestry of immigrants coming from The Netherlands into the USA in the 1800's. They also often converted to Catholicism. Whole families could be used to this American term 'Black Dutch' but the DNA tests of our times nowadays reveal their Ashkenazi heritage, often to their big surprise.

[@nytn]

Wow thanks for adding this

[@bonniegropper]

Being half Irish,I was told that the Black Irish could be olive or fair complected with dark hair and either blue or brown eyes.

[@RateEpisode]

I thought Sean Connery was considered by the Irish as Black Irish.

[@ericpitt-bey3005]

Scottish

[@annecollins1741]

Was Sean Connery Scottish?

[@susancapotelamb3936]

@@annecollins1741Yes he was.

[@jdee3421]

He was Scottish, but of part Irish Traveller ancestry.

[@ericpitt-bey3005]

@@jdee3421 Irish Traveler?

[@jorgegonzales9815]

There is a percentage of Irish who are dark haired and eyed and could be just dropped into Spanish America and fit right in. "Black Irish" isn't a reference to race, facial features or nationally but just to hair and eye color. The Armada story historically is the likely source of this population as DNA testing has shown. Spain is very close to Ireland. Like many things, later it gets transferred by other people to explain other situations like in the U.S. and it loses its original simple meaning. My mother has red hair and blue eyes but we are not Irish. We are Mexican. Huh?

[@jackieblue1267]

DNA testing shows the Irish have no Spanish influence. "Population geneticist, Dan Bradley of Trinity College Dublin carried out two genetic studies, to debunk the myth of the black Irish, and he found little to no trace of Spanish in Irish DNA."

[@azborderlands]

Mexican is a nationality and not a race. There are many Irish people with zero native ancestry that live in Mexico.

[@1953childstar]

@@azborderlands Thank you !! That is so true...

[@Marie-lf8ut]

During the Mexican American war, many Irish soldiers defected to Mexico. There were superior fighters, having been trained by the British to fight in the front lines in Europe. When these Irish soldiers defected from the British rule, they came to America. The only work they could find was in the American military. They were discriminated against the same as Africans. They were treated so horribly by the American military, torchered, and given less food than American soldiers and always put on the front lines to fight the Mexicans, that they joined the Mexican army to help them fight the Americans. They stayed in Mexico after the war and raised their own families. I went to school in California with many blond and red-haired kids with blue or green eyes that had Mexican last names. My grandmother was full blood Irish, my grandfather was English. My father had red hair and blue eyes. I have blond hair and green eyes. You could not tell the difference between me or my classmates with Mexican names because through the gene pool, we were related. You need to research your history.

[@meghamcdowell]

My understanding is that Black Irish are people from Ireland who have black or dark brown hair. The may have mixed ancestry with danes or possibly even be Presbyterian Scots who were forcibly moved to Ireland centuries ago.

[@JudgeJulieLit]

Too their dark coloring may come from ancestry Pict (Latin for "painted people" who painted themselves, as in time of war) and/or Roman, as the Roman Empire had conquered and occupied much of Britain, Ireland and Scotland from early in the Common Era (starting with Emperor Claudius) to the circa A.D. 479 Roman withdrawal from the British Isles.

[@GenXWitch67]

My family is Scot/Irish, having done our family tree as far back as possible, we do go as far back as Tunis on one branch for me personally. However, we are light olive skinned, medium brown to nearly black hair, all blue or green/hazel eyed. Only brown eyes have come in with brown eyed spouses. Even those don’t usually over-power our blue or green/hazel.

[@harmonys2102]

Interesting point about the eyes. My dad had dark hair with blue eyes, but I have brown eyes (from my mom) and so did my husband (from both his parents). Nevertheless my son got the same blue eyes my dad had, against the mathematical odds. My siblings have green eyes; I’m the only one with brown.

[@lmena5696]

We had always heard that the Black Irish came from the Gaulic invasions from the south, the people of what would be thought of as French blood.

[@sharkwantscoffee]

Im from the south of Ireland. I can confirm that this is not true. Ireland has had very few french immigrants and those who did immigrate came from the north of france for egs Normandy which is mostly white unlike southern france

[@tania0070]

You should also research "black scots"

[@bobbieschke599]

They were Celto- Iberians who migrated to the Isles after the fall, or before the fall of Rome........

[@derekkase7884]

I thought the black Irish were black hair Irish people or dark hair Irish from Ireland. Sorry you are wrong.. this is very controversial

[@1953childstar]

That is me !!!

[@Geoffreydarcy-pv4mq]

For thousands of years, "Black" signified what area you were from. Black (historically)was used for north, white for south, green for east, and red for west. The Black Slavs of asia, as opposed to the southern, or western Slavic peoples. I need to re-familiarize myself on this topic. This channel is so, very interesting. Let the debate begin ! 👍

[@Kali-Yuga-Peace-Corp]

As far as I "know" the "so-called" Black Irish are called that because of the same reason as the "so-called" Forest-Norwegians that were called dark. They were not something "else" (but usually called it in the "new world"). They were called that because of their darker hair and so on. Forest Norwegians were darker as they never were farmers, and ate a lot of fish, getting D-Vitamins from food and not the sun. But for generations on generations, centuries. These were "Poor" people in modern times, some-times. Isolated groups. And workers. The Norse and Gaelic/Celtic, were Nomadic "forever". All over Europe and Asia. Modern DNA testing shows this. It also shows the ancient DNA Between the Nordics and the Peoples of Isolated groups in South Asia as they have the same ancestors. That is why we have linguistic-therm; Indo-European. You can look up people from these areas and see Scandinavian in their DNA results, not because they have that from modern times, but because of ancient heritage. We are all connected, as we are all people. Edit: That said Scandinavians tan real well, people from the British Isles don't. And that can be seen when you go to Spain and look at the tourists.

[@habibahq4272]

My grandma once said "Who says the Irish were white?" It struck me ever since. I had read the original Irish were heavily Melanated and there were many dark skinned rulers. Many indentured servants also came here from Ireland of different phenotypes. My grandmother was a Kennedy from South Carolina and always identified as Irish. and said we were related to the president JFK through his dad's southern roots. I haven't figured that out yet, though. I also read that the Turkish were called Black Irish and connected to Melugeon. My DNA shows a percentage of Turkic, Central Asian...like 4 percent. It showed in all my siblings who took DNA tests on Myheritage. I found our Melugeon line in The Carolinas and Tennessee. One cousin match had a obituary that stated "she was a Melugeon". Goins, Berry, Burden...yes al lot of the Plecker hit list names. lol. I love your content it's like your doing the work for me. Just kidding. It really confirms a lot for me. Love your research and point of view. I now I have to put my research out, too. You've inspired me. Jonesborough, Tennessee is calling.

[@nytn]

So glad!

[@tahliah6691]

I think people need to understand that the terminology used in America is not the same terminology used in the UK or even in Europe … the terms are very American eg black Irish, or Caucasian… they have different meanings in Europe or even Asian where the region is eg Caucasians in Europe terms are regarded as being a tribe from Asia in the caucus mountains region eg I know that the real Caucasians are the Iranians dna wise… and those living around that region also. The terminology Caucasian was first adopted by a theorist Johann Blumenbach in the 18th century… and applied to refer to Europeans as a form of superiority …living in Europe I have heard of the terminology called black Irish but in Europe before people heard of the term black Irish a person wasn’t referred to by their skin. Olour rhey were referred to by their hair and that was on most peoples passports in Europe so black Irish referred originally to the hair colour being black which wasn’t the norm in Ireland or England or Scotland but was common in Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 and France 🇫🇷… it’s said to do with the Spanish sailors who shipwrecked off Eg coast of Ireland and Cornwall… Cornish people often have black hair and dark eyes… but it’s not an English term at all it’s very American and never heard of the aboriginal Australians refer to themselves as black Irish either as their dna is Papuan and Dravidian

[@elleanna5869]

It's a lost cause I am afraid. But you are right anyway, even if the US bubble doesn't listen😳 (edit: except that it's not just the Spanish but also the French, the Celts, the ancient Romans...a lot of "white" brunettes to provide dark "black" hair and eyes, let alone that even in Scandinavia and Iceland there are people with dark hair and eyes probably unrelated with South Europe contribution)

[@jackieblue1267]

Aboriginal Australians never referred to themselves as Black Irish. I don't know where that came from? I live in Australia and have never heard that story.

[@jackieblue1267]

@@elleanna5869 Yes correct. There is a range in all populations and people that have long term ancestry in a country have the same genetics and cluster together. A dark haired Icelander will be the same as a blond Icelander genetically. They all descend from the same populations. The Vikings for example were not all blond and blue eyed. They also had a range of colouring.

[@thecriticalxpert]

There are three... definitions of black Irish that I know of. 1. An Irish person with roman Empire ancestry/latin heritage, black hair, black eyes olive skin. 2. The archaic west Europeans, from Africa that are said to have been masons who built Stonehenge and who the first Asiatic people migrating into the west Asia (Europe) cited as living in mounds under the ground and were of very short stature... hence the mythology of the hobbit -are based off these people. 3. The mixed race peoples that migrated from the Iberian Peninsula, who actually had modern African DNA were also referred to as black Irish. And it is also a fact, that Irish people acknowledge; the first Irish people cauc-Asians were actually dark brown. The same is true of the Welsch, the Creoles of Europe LMAO, many of then look mixed race, especially the hair, Mini Driver the actress comes to mind, but they also have tons of archaic African DNA that no one talks about.

[@susancapotelamb3936]

Makes absolute sense historically. But those who migrated from the Iberian peninsula (modern day Spain) that you are referring to are a Celtic people mixed with Berbers (who have red hair).

[@thecriticalxpert]

@@susancapotelamb3936 Right... that is true, but the Iberian peninsula was a sea-faring favorite in archaic times??? where just about anyone travelling out of the Mediterranean, the Near East or Africa stopped and mingled additionally that area was home to at least two significant black peoples over time, 'The Sea People's and the Moors, the majority of which were black phenotypically' so racially in archaic times it was very phenotypically diverse. Even to this day surprisingly Spainiards, people from Spain are not considered 'white' Europeans -how bizarre right.

[@elleanna5869]

Archaic Europeans from Africa? Which timeline? This is very unlikely. Archaic Europeans (included the Cheddar man) may have been melanated but their dna was already not African (Cheddar man being basically Hungarian)

[@elleanna5869]

@@thecriticalxpert nope, 1)the Sea People and the Moors come from very distant timelines 2)the Moors weren't "black" phenotype, they were middle eastern/North African. They despised the phenotype we today call black (west African / black American to cut it short) Black in Eurasian context doesn't generally mean African or west African phenotype but rather, simply, white brunette or the "Arab" and North African type. Which both as I already said didn't despise us "black Africans" any less than "Europeans". They did way more.

[@thecriticalxpert]

​@@elleanna5869 Ok, but we have acknowledge the facts first. Today, and throughout the history of homo sapiens, there have been black skin, curly haired people all over Africa. Yes there are more lighter Africans in the north, because of admixture, but ANYWHERE YOU GO IN NORTH AFRICA, YOU WILL FIND BLACK AFRICAN PHENOTYPES, INDIGENOUS TO THOSE COUNTRIES. So saying the moors were Arab or North African, doesn’t speak at all to what hue their skin may have been or how curly their hair may have been. Arabians, have a sizeble black demographic, lots of Arabians are black. So to imply Arabs are one race, one color, or not black is inaccurate. "The moors and the sea people come from very distant timelines.' What would that change genetically, DNA over time? We know how DNA works. Also all the poopooing that goes on about the African in archaic times, hmm and you made me laugh OMG. the whole world was in awe of Africa, and thus was its downfall, whether it was Egypt, Tmibuktu, Nubia, Ethiopia, or Zululand, Africa and it’s people were the jewel of the ancient world. So the idea that blacks were looked at as less when black and brown skin people were the ancient kings and queens of Constatinople, Sumeria, Minoa and Arabia, is just a revisionist tale inserted into the zeitgeist of the 'Colonial Empires' retelling of world history.

[@8bitgamer85]

There was recent DNA research about Irish people that they were indeed descended from Spain and Portugal. But not from the Spanish Armada. The Celtic Irish are descended from ancient Celt-Iberian tribes of Iberia that migrated to Hibernia way before the Roman and Carthaginian empire existed. That’s probably why you might see some modern Irish people having dark hair like Bono, The Corrs, Delores, and Sgt Major Harper from Sharpe’s Rifle TV series.

[@apatriotone]

I’m African-American. I always thought I was part Native American, but was shocked a DNA test showed I’m 16% Scottish and 15% Irish. What??