Who Wins Round 2? (Hisoka vs Chrollo)

[@gregorykenmoe3374]

Heaven’s arena was absolutely 100% for chrollo. He said it himself. There was no way he was losing. It wasn’t a fight but an execution

[@thatzlyght755]

Yes I agree he did say it’s 100% win for Chtollo.

[@HoopsRaccoon]

It took him one year to make a fool proof plan for hisoka, and people still wonder who’s stronger. It’s no debate. Hisoka is a nightmare for anyone. And chrollo used the most abilities he’s ever used at once he said (7) during that fight. Stop bringing up prep time. Prep time and knowing someone’s nen ability is half the battle, he knew hisokas ability and hisoka had no idea what chrollo had. The fact that fight went that long says more about how strong hisoka is if anything. With that being said, the fight togashi wrote did what it was supposed to do, leave us fans still arguing years later.

[@angrymeowngi]

Yeah but Hisoka also said he gave him too much control over where and when they will fight. Hisoka simply realized that he took too much risk that time but did not really acknowledge that Chrollo is beyond him. It is more because of how everything was set up such that everything was against him. Usually Hisoka and tne opponent has almost equal control over how to use the environment and the difference in outcome is only on how smart they use them. In this case, Chrollo had all the control because Hisoka allowed it because it was the only way Chrollo would agree to fight him. Chrollo basically said, come alone and face an army or don't come at all. Hisoka was just plain stupid and he knew it and why he implied that the win was 100% Chrollo's. Context matter. I would say the Zoldick will have a harder time dealing with Hisoka than Chrollo but Chrollo with prep time will easily beat the Zoldick with less damage than Hisoka would take to kill them.

[@XaldinX]

@@HoopsRaccoon he did know becaause chorllo told him, what he didn't tell him were how gallery fake, and sun and moon would operate.

[@HoopsRaccoon]

@ I see and agree with your point. I’d say that bungee gum is a ridiculously versatile hatsu, but it either sticks or repels. Impossible to beat pretty much. Chrollo tells him all SEVEN right before the fight. Bungee gum has a level of unpredictability but chrollo just dumped hisoka 7 Hatsu to brace for. And just like the comic read, hisoka went over all the scenarios in his head and knew he was f*****

[@goodoldmat4085]

Order stamp is no longer usable on how it was used during the first match, since Chrollo can no longer make copies of corpses because the copy dude from the Phantom Troupe is now dead.

[@mattb.7079]

Three remarks: 1) Hisoka's feat of intelligence during the battle is undeniable, but it wouldn't have been possible in the first place without Chrollo explaining his abilities to him. There's a theory that says the new conditions of Skill Hunter brought by Bookmark would include the fact that Chrollo has to expose his powers before fighting, but I don't think such condition is viable in any capacity against anyone other than Hisoka, who's willing to listen to the end. Furthermore, I don't think it's valid to say that Chrollo's and Hisoka's battle IQ are on the same level on the basis that Hisoka was overwhelmed and not outsmarted by Chrollo, because if there was a possibility for his plan to be outsmarted, Chrollo wouldn't have revealed his cards nor brought up that 100% chance of victory. 2) Chrollo was very much confident to either win or at least survive his encounter with the Zoldicks: Zeno noticed that Chrollo was holding back, and he himself confirmed it; from the start, Chrollo was trying to steal their hatsus (and this comes from someone who already fought Silva AND who's got a ridiculous number of impractical conditions to fulfill WHILE fighting against two powerhouses), and even after getting blasted by Silva (and sustaining no significant damage btw) Chrollo didn't feel like his life was in danger and was just disappointed he didn't manage to steal their abilities. 3) We don't know the full extent of Chrollo's arsenal because he was holding back each time we saw him fighting. We already know that regarding his encounter with the Zoldicks, but even with Hisoka, Chrollo's speech at the beginning and his absolute confident claim of beating Hisoka, coupled with the fact that he did not use any abilities other than the ones he showed to Hisoka, demonstrate that this whole encounter was not a fight to the death for Chrollo but an intellectual puzzle to complete while already knowing the combinations and full picture (not mentioning that Chrollo had a soft spot for Hisoka before he decided to kill his comrades, hence why he wanted to give him a good fight and send-off). Point is, we saw Hisoka at his max but we've been nowhere near of seeing Chrollo at full capacity with his life on the line. Even now, Chrollo isn't looking for an ability in order to beat Hisoka but one that would allow him to "kill Hisoka for good" (meaning, to prevent him from resurrecting like last time).

[@Tyranastrasza]

1) I don't think explaining is one of his new conditions, he started using sun and moon with both hands before explaining his bookmarks. 2) It's maybe my head canon but I think the Zoldick phone rang before Silva finished the attack, and that's why he ""missed". I really can't see him holding back because of a trivial thing like "I might hurt my dad". Yeah, he was trying to steal their hatsus, and was thus holding back, but I don't think the Zoldicks were giving their whole either. 3) I don't think we've seen Hisoka at his max either, he went into the fight with confidence in his side as well. Yeah he lost, but I think round 2 he will give his full throttle right from the beginning.

[@mattb.7079]

@Tyranastrasza 1) It's a theory I've seen that I don't believe to be true, I took it into consideration preemptively in case people would come and make an argument with it. 2) The phone only started ringing after Silva had launched his attack (in the manga at least). It's pretty much implied and shown that they were giving their all: Zeno had to use Ko just to pierce Chrollo's defenses, and Silva stated that they both had to risk their lives to try and kill him; all that while Chrollo was still holding back. 3) We've definitely seen Hisoka at his max here both physically and intellectually, because he's got overwhelmed on both accounts. But anyway, it doesn't really matter in scaling Hisoka due to his post-mortem nen amp-which both improved Bungee Gum's potency and incidentally Hisoka's power and speed (as he can use the elastic properties of his gum prosthetics to strike and propel himself faster).

[@Page_max]

Hisoka’s battle Iq >>>>> Chrollo’s battle IQ

[@mattb.7079]

@Page_max your theory about Chrollo and Sun & Moon is pretty cool my g

[@Page_max]

@@mattb.7079 thanks man. I love hxh. I have lots of theories

[@pleaseclap7890]

I feel like Round 2 is really gonna depend on what circumstances Hisoka and Chrollo encounter each other in. Like if one of them could get the jump on the other and land a clean surprise attack, it would probably just be game over right there.

[@laquanlucas6953]

It's like another chest game

[@LifeCompanionDogs8083]

Round 2 Hisoka is a different beast after his death against Chrollo. Hisoka does not gove his opponents a chance now. No time for planning.

[@dontbothertoreply9755]

All of this time they have been planning lol.

[@jwalkblue7]

​@@dontbothertoreply9755 Chrollo sounded quite nervous about running into Hisoka before he has the correct moveset put together.

[@DayzaAziz]

Chrollo my favourite. Ultimately I'd pick him to win over Hisoka... But it's still hard for me to choose

[@cesarpedrazamartinezgarcia725]

Chrollo is impossible to asses, he will simply have what the plot wants him to have. I think togashi does fine making him believable and all but here out in the community when we want to take Chrollo out to play, you realize, there's pretty much nothing to work with besides that one Zoldycs event, and what can you say with that? Chrollo running around with a poisoned knife is a compelling version to put against Hisoka? If we had some reliable combat abilities i think we could make an average case but he doesn't. He either 100%s Hisoka or he kills some thugs with ghosty whales or he gets kidnapped by kurapika. I think Chrollo is just not readily available to be used for hypotheticals, if he fought more we might have something but as it is, he will never have consistent info and to put him against others you will have to give him all the skills he's ever had

[@flashaban]

That zoldyk feat is all he needs tho

[@jorgepintogonzalez4518]

“Chrollo will have whatever the plot wants him to have” like resurrecting from the death is not being saved by the plot 😂

[@Slhazzard]

Mr. Chrollo “I can’t fight unless I have all the hax powers and the situation is absolutely perfect for me” Lucifer Now that I think about it Chrollo is pretty much the Floyd Mayweather of the HxH universe.

[@NeXus49]

Okay, you are stressing, again and again, the point that Chrollo needs the exact set of abilities and the exact location he had in Heaven's arena to win. And yeah that's true, but for that same reason, it doesn't make sense to say stuff like: If he didn't have Black Voice he would have considerably smaller chances... Again, it is the truth, BUT then he would use a different strategy and a different set of abilities... It reminds me of the people who say: ''Gojo would be useless without infinity... because he stands around and lets his opponents hit him'' And my response to that is... what the f* are you talking about if he didn't have infinity then he would obviously fight differently, then he dos with it. The same goes for Chrollo... if he didn't have Fun Fun cloth against Zoldycks, he would just use some different ability to make them wary, or he might have chosen a completely different strategy as a whole. BTW I agree with most things you said here. Hisokas performance is definitely more consistent. He also has Bungee Gum, 1 OP ability that is on his level of NEN use, while Chrollo has to use stolen abilities, which are probably lower-level abilities, so he has to utilize weaker powers even tho he is around the same LV of NEN user as Hisoka. So yeah I think Hisoka has a higher chance of victory, I just don't like your point about Chrollo's strategy... But good video overall, keep it up!

[@harrylynch4224]

Preach! I think it's so ignorant to say that he would just try the same exact strategy but worse. Chrollo did that specific strategy because his victory was so guaranteed that it was embarrassing for Hisoka, not because he only has 6 powers in a his book and nothing else

[@bobolh206]

Well said man

[@bluecocacola]

my goat chrollo

[@mr.gorehowl5160]

Dide we forget the power boost hisoka got due to his death.. he might pull another skill we have never seen!!

[@mk_-8794]

Exactly.

[@MrSub132]

He doesnt even need to imo. That rubber/gum leg and arm is DEVESTATING. Him one shotting shalnark with a squish bounce lariat was all I needed to see. He was already strong enough to just throw a pile of people around and now he has even stronger nen to add to the damage.

[@Apotheosis1113]

Hisoka is broken he will kill chrollo. Chrollo knows

[@angrymeowngi]

This is something that a lot of people missed. Chrollo knows that Hisoka joined the Troupe only to fight him. Chrollo knew for a long time, adding the time Kurapika made a biatch out of him and had to wait for the desperate Hisoka to find a nen exorcist. And when he got his powers back it still took him another year to prepare just to be sure. If Chrollo even considered stealing the abilities of Zeno and Silva during their encounter but never even allowed Hisoka to fight him without long preparation, that means that he acknowledge Hisoka is more dangerous than even the Zoldycks. I know many people will be butthurt by the comparison but it is understandable. Hisoka does not need to get paid to kill someone. The Zoldycks are more predictable in that sense. Hisoka is just a pyscho, a very strong pyscho. Now that he is not as desperate for a fight, he is actually more dangerous. The hunter exam showed how careless Hisoka becomes when he is overtaken by hunger for killing that even Gon can one up him.

[@T0R0RIKI]

Hisoka stayed in the middle of the ring, just waiting for krollo full attack. Same way he waited for krollo to collect all those abilities. He could just exit the arena, camouflage texture, and assault krollo. Game over. Their fight is mental, not only physical. Hisoka goal is to completely crush the opponent psiche, not just kill. And by doing so, he allows to be fatally woounded because he is psycho sadomaso (see vs kastro). Hands down, hisoka is stronger than krollo in many aspects even krollo knows that he will die if hisoka meets him unprepared. Readers truly dont know how to understand a story even when it is explicitly told by dialogues. This fanboysm and DBZ mentality to power scale anything when all HxH story points towards nen being multidimensional combat (and not only) system.

[@HamkkeTogether]

This is the most accurate comment. Hisoka is a sadomaochist and he'll 100% crush Chrollo in a even scenario. Chrollo skills are more like Kurapika skills, he needs a loot of prep and timing to actually win a fight, but he doesn't care about fighting he's all about stealing and doing Kumo's mission.

[@Stanzbey69]

But chrollo wasn’t even using half of his arsenal and we’ve never seen him truly go all out/in danger.

[@Dova1489]

It's also worth noting re the chrollo vs silva and zeno fight that the zoldycks were trying not to kill anyone else in the area. We can tell this was the case because when komugi was hurt in the raid zeno was upset that someone he wasnt contracted to kill was injured. Considering Zeno's actual powerset not being able to hurt nearby civilians would severely hamper his ability to go all out. Thus why he brought silva even though he thought he might have been able to do it alone.

[@DrooledOn]

He wasn’t contracted to kill anyone. He basically did a drive by without knowing who was in there. The Zoldycks are always about assuring victory 100%. Killuas entire character arc is about breaking that conditioning. You didn’t even need to mention that. I don’t even think he genuinely cares about civilians. Of any of the Zoldycks for the matter, they allow for their own to be tortured. Illumi just murders indiscriminately to complete his contracts via needles.

[@Dova1489]

I wasn't talking about Killua... And his targets were obviously the ants why else would Zeno have been upset. It's not about whether or not he cares about civilians, Zeno obviously just has an absurd level of pride in how he conducts himself in a mission that isn't actually in line with any sense of morality. I was talking about Zeno fighting chrollo so idk why it matters what Illumi does on missions.

[@Random-dndsdfaf]

They are also professionals. They are very careful and try to mitigate any major injuries too. they are careful too which is why they just don't go all in as like was stated a manipulation technique can insta win someone.

[@deathreaper4166]

This really doesn’t change much. The mission is above all so if push came to shove they would use the full extent of their power to win and that’s what they did. Also, there’s only really one ability of Zeno we know he didn’t use in that fight which was dragon dive and IMO that has little to do with preserving the building or civilians, if he used it it would break a lot of shit around them and would make Chrollo escaping easier. He used his other more practical dragon nen hatsu attacks which Chrollo counters and then he even resorts to using a suicide attack against Chrollo which is the opposite of holding back. These guys would Deadass rather die than fail their mission and damage their rep.

[@Dova1489]

​​​@@deathreaper4166 I mostly agree with u but I don't think the fight was actually close enough to say that we know for a fact that either Zeno or Silva were going all out. If you watch the fight Zeno and Silva had control pretty much the entire time tbh so I don't think we can say that they definitely used their entire kit to put chrollo down. Like I understand it's impressive that chrollo was even holding them off but there's just no way chrollo was ever coming out of that with a W, best case scenario he was taking one of them out with him. Uvogin destroys more with a single punch than they did in the entire fight, if you don't think they were limiting their destructive capacities to not level the building around them then idk what to tell u tbh.

[@IDoThisNoCAP]

At 10:50 and on I understand your “if” takes lol but that’s the whole point of chrollo prepping for hisoka and guaranteeing 100% victory. It was not close.

[@DrooledOn]

Hisoka has his own inconsistencies. Let’s not forget what his bloodlust did to him in the hunter exams.

[@laquanlucas6953]

Hisoka wants on full kill mode during that hxh exam arc

[@nowgoawayanddosomethinggoo8978]

my prediction: chrollo will learn too late that bungee gum has the properties of both rubber and gum.

[@cdrizzy1]

Hisoka didn't figure out Chrollo's strategy in HA. Chrollo explained it before the fight, so that isn't a fair argument

[@Aquaf90]

He explained it generally not completely leaving situations for hisoka to solve

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

No, he did not revealed his strategy, he revealed the abilities. There were at least 5 strategies Hisoka could think of. Hisoka did exceptionally good in just keeping up mostly, but he undeniably lost track of Chrollo's strategy. For example, he got surprised when the head exploded in his hand. Just after, when was too late, he realized that Chrollo didn't just stayed behind after he got hit to take his breath or something, he was actually marking the head with sun and moon.

[@montrum3218]

chrollo didn’t explain his strategy. he explained a few of his abilities and it’s implied that those explanations were restrictions placed so he could use bookmark

[@HoopsRaccoon]

@@Aquaf90 he told him the abilities, not his strat, its a difference

[@thatzlyght755]

Chrollo explained the ability’s to Hisoka before the fight. I know Hisoka is smart but not on Chrollo’s level in my opinion.

[@stevegfx9312]

Chrollo explaining his abilities might be a condition for the bookmark.

[@veetekay4264]

To be fair it’s because it doesn’t matter if you know what the abilities do at that point, with combination of those abilities and the crowd, there was no way for Hisoka to win. It’s just like Netero’s 100 type, there was no weakness, it’s just Meruem could tank thousands of hits to find a sliver of unconscious bias. Hisoka isn’t the king of Chimera Ants, so there wasn’t a way to win within the trap Chrollo set up.

[@almighty7509]

@@stevegfx9312nah i think he explained it to overload him mentally to make hisoka second and third guess the possibilities

[@banekiller6245]

I think Hisika is just as smart as Chrollo but he’s been way to impulsive, but now he’s essentially stopped playing with his food which is bad news for the whole troupe

[@stevegfx9312]

@@almighty7509 that’s also a good possibility but sadly we won’t find out any time soon because the hiatus 😥

[@IDoThisNoCAP]

You forget chrollo explained to hisoka the abilities before their fight

[@laquanlucas6953]

Hisoka ain't going to fight Chrollo right away. He is going to go after the troupe first. To prevent Chrollo from gaining ability in his arsenal. That is one flaw about Chrollo you can stay He needs to steal the ability to keep himself himself busy

[@IDoThisNoCAP]

@ what are you talking about? I mentioned my statement because he brought up the fight at heavens arena, saying hisoka figured everything out as to why their intelligence levels are identical

[@beyondspeaks]

This is very similar to the comic book death battles my friends and i use to have about spiderman vs batman. It’s a scaling win percentage solely based on batman’s prep time because you know what spiderman is coming with everytime but sometimes batman will pull out some bullshit.

[@yumyumeatemup]

Losing Gallery Fake was a bigger deal than losing Black Antenna imo. Black Antenna meant huge risk and essentially a game over if Hisoka got in and got stuck with one, but Hisoka could still play around it by being careful and waiting for an opening to strike. But when he lost gallery fake Chrollo lost the lynch pin of his broken combo. He lost his army of explosive dolls to endlessly throw at, and overwhelm Hisoka with. Sun and Moon being post mortem nen means that Chrollo has that ability forever in his arsenal basically, and it was using that post mortem nen "hack" that allowed him to keep the clones around after having conjured them and affixed them with the order stamp to bring them to life. The exploding was just gravy, but truly it was the fact that Chrollo could "put away" Gallery Fake and Order Stamp after having applied Sun and Moon to each of the dolls. Man built an army of explosive kamikazes and said get em boys! LMAO

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

Meh, there are plenty of strategies he can go with even without gallery fake. It's not about consistency, it's about efficiency. It takes only one second for Hisoka to not use GYO, while Chrollo hides indoor fish with IN similar to how Kurapika did to Uvo and the fight might be over. Not counting teleportation and allat. It's always a gamble between top tier nen users. To confidently affirm either Hisoka or Chrollo wins over each other is just naive.

[@glauberbispo8922]

lol I didn't even watched the video yet, but seing the comments of the guys crying that hunter x hunter is about strategies and bla bla bla, i'll bet that u said that hisoka has a little bit more of change of winning in the rematch hahaa

[@nooperator2]

I dared to talk about fighting in Hunter x Hunter. The ultimate sin.

[@Joaquin26534]

If hisoka really got as big an upgrade as some people think he’s gonna use bungee gum and texture surprise to completely change the battleground and trick chrollo into walking into a trap. Mirroring his lesson learned abt not letting the opponent pick the battlefield

[@Lunaspapa]

Chrollo is not in the right mental state right now. He’s breaking down, and when he encounters Hisoka he’s gonna have to snap out of it or die. Plus Hisoka is running on postmortem nen, which is extremely potent.

[@Mystic_Shiki]

The first thing Hisoka did after the fight was kill Shalnark and Kortopi that just shows how much their abilities annoyed him 😂

[@mixedbeatz16]

The thing about this is that story wise, both of these characters are just expressions of the plot at this point. Hisoka and Chrollo both should die at the end of this plot. However, it depends entirely on how the Mangaka wants to resolve the plot threads. Does the mangaka want Chrollo to die by Hisoka's hand and resolve the slow death of the phantom troupe? Then Kurapika's vengeance plot thread will leave him with only the prine with the collections of the eyes to resolve his plot thread. Does he want Kurapika to end the phantom troupe through fighting Chrollo? Then Chrollo kills Hisoka with another well thought out plan. Scaling these two is fun, tho.

[@Hyde_Lawrence]

I feel like this fight really harm Chrollo as a character. Up until then he was the most mysterious character with an infinite(?) set of powers that he could use destroy you with. The guy saw 2 Zoldycks and just fought without giving a fuck, of course he wasn't winning that but he had the balls. Now after the fight with Hisoka he is just the "prep guy" and this is so stupid, he is much more than that. I know from a writting perspective using abilities we already know is the perfect move by Togashi, because if you just come up with new ones it's really easy to create a 100% win scenario. And even tho Togashi executed everything perfect I feel that this new Chrollo that "needs to prep" to fight is not in tune with the old one. I feel like old Chrollo would just fight Hisoka and kick his ass (or maybe not) with a crazy ability from his book and not having to call 10 friends to collect yu gi oh cards to use against him. Anyways, good video my friend.

[@creasy1988]

Have we even seen the Upgrade from Hisoka's post mortem Nen? What if he got from i can stretch and pull THE GUM to STRETCH AND PULL THINGS with Gum. And Literally turn into GOJO to stretch space to Infinity or reduce the space between them.

[@quincybenwood5331]

What we forget is that even if they meet underground, Hisoka is not so overwhelmingly stronger or smart enough to keep the fight underground

[@illamatic1378]

What if black phone is still there with post mortem nen

[@awon6518]

Hisoka uses bungee gum on the floor tiles in heavens arena to send them flying into the puppets and clear out the stands and that'd clear out the puppets and crowd in no time while creating a chaotic environment that favors Hisoka. Even if Hisoka didn't think to do this until his hand exploded using both feet and his other hand with bungee gum to send the floor tiles would have taken away most of the advantages Chrollo had. Hisoka could have used the debris to attach to himself as a sort of armor to protect himself from black voice.

[@ickyfist]

I like hisoka more than chrollo and I think he's way stronger than chrollo but this is HxH. Togashi is just the kind of writer who would make chrollo win against Hisoka twice even though most people expect Hisoka to win the second time with the post-death nen boost.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Well, yeah. Base-Stats are Obvious. Real darn obvious. Problem is how he needed extremly specific Techniques and he lost these specifically. He got weaker while Hisoka got stronger, and before that Hisoka was slightly stronger - so pretty bad for Chrollo. Let alone Franklin and Machi- really no clue why the F the HEALER of the group, whose clearly much weaker than even the weaker Chrollo isall alone

[@debmitt2410]

I think bungee -gum is underrated I think it’s strength is how simple yet effective it is there isn’t really a counter for it

[@dallas2586]

It’s a battle of a master of many and a master of one, the more factors in the fight helps chrollo the less helps hisoka

[@austinshetayh7610]

Chrollo also has 100% enhancer efficiency and probably has nen abilities to heal himself

[@gengar464]

I wouldn’t count out chrollo still having gallery fake or black voice if he didn’t get a chance to return them and depending on how dedicated they were to the troupe he could still have either of them

[@samtovar35]

Hisoka Slaps Hisoka…. Done. Chrollo has to plot for months. Hisoka is on site.

[@Chickenwangz999]

Ive always wondered if hisoka can just snatch chrollos bookmark with bungee gum

[@Chickenwangz999]

Or even the book! Its not permanently attached to chrollo, so i wonder why hisoka never tried to take it from him.

[@HisokaTheClown916]

Hisoka was so powerful that Chrollo need prep time to fight him at heaven's arena

[@flashaban]

No he just wanted a 100% certainty win

[@noneed2444]

He was prepared to fight the Zeldis. The whole plan was for him to fight them so that’s some bullshit.

[@DKing-du6xr]

Planning is just the chance for chrollo to ensure victory at 100%. He is still extremely dangerous without prep time. I don’t see how hisoka beats chrollo to be frank. At best, hisoka gets a draw.

[@ChibiKeruchan]

I remember back then when I read these chapters , I suspected that Chrollo cheated. but I'm not sure how. until the end of their fight in which Sharlnark and kortopi appear to be in the last chapters. that is when I assume my suspicion is correct. I have suspected that Chrollo cheated by Releasing Shalrnark and Kortopi's ability to let them help him. Kortopi's job is to make a lot of copies as much as he can while disguising as an audience. and Shalnark job was simply to assist chrollo from being chased by hisoka. The needle and the phone that Chrollo hold is actually a fake. I remember chrollo is talking to his phone back then asking something while being chased by hisoka.. and I suspected it was him talking to shalnark.

[@sambennett2354]

All chrolo did was play defensive against the zoldycks he knew all he had to do was wait for his payment to go through and shallnark is dead now no more antenna

[@user-rz2sq9fm2g]

Just depends who Togashi needs in the story going forward. Both have unfinished business, but if by the time they fight Chrollo hasn’t had a climax with Kurapika (which I doubt will happen before this fight, considering it would probably entail either of them dying) then I think he has to win. Kurapika confronting the remaining troupe members wouldn’t be anywhere near as satisfying or interesting (as good as the characters are). Hisoka’s only real loose end would be him never seeing the growth of Gon and Killua, which is nowhere near as impactful for anyone’s character development.

[@user-rz2sq9fm2g]

Only way I can see Togashi getting around this is Hisoka and Kurapika recognise their shared interest and work together to beat Chrollo, then we get a whole final moment with Chrollo and Kurapika from that with Hisoka having truly won the fight and left Chrollo alive - Chrollo then has a chance for an internal monologue reflecting on Sarasa, the note which he is taking the words from to the grave, and the troupe continuing without him as he already foreshadowed in the last couple chapters

[@smoovbynature]

If someone knows a better more strategic and thrilling fight than Hisoka vs Chrollo in any manga/anime....please put me on

[@roryrousseau111]

Everyone calls it “Black Phone”. All I want for Christmas is for everyone to start calling it by it’s actual and more interesting name; BLACK VOICE!!! Thanks in advance :p

[@altheuss]

Me scrolling searching for bungee gum properties comment..

[@deathreaper4166]

Hisoka is not above Chrollo in physical stats. They have the same body and nen ratings in the data book and Chrollo actually gets the better of Hisoka in all of their physical exhanges in the fight hitting him multiple times with what Hisoka calls “mortal wounds” when Hisoka is actively anticipating getting hit. Chrollo is also able to withstand nen attacks from Zeno who’s an ultimate level emitter. Using the arm wrestling rankings instead of actual combat feats is a joke. Hisoka is also not on the same level of intelligence at all. Chrollo explains every single ability that’s he’s using and Hisoka STILL gets Chrollo’s plan wrong multiple times. First he thinks the plan is black voice GG with audience distraction, then he gets the order of abilities wrong later on as well. Again this is with a full detailed explanation of all the hatsus which you basically never get in a nen fight where people are actively concealing their abilities. Chrollo is also implied to be a lot more creative in off script close quarters interactions for example he’s able to jump and hit Chrollo from angles Chrollo isn’t expecting with Hisoka actually wondering to himself how Chrollo even attacked from certain angles. Chrollo is also blatantly able to switch with a clone mid engagement with Hisoka which goes completely unnoticed. It’s also a pretty big misconception Chrollo needs the crowd to put himself in advantageous situations. There’s actually a moment in the fight where there’s no one in between the two and Chrollo while back pedalling is still able to outrun Hisoka. Also your point at the end about Chrollo not using prep for 100% victory and actually needing full prep to even have a chance of winning is stupid and contradicts the narrative. Chrollo literally states he prepped to ensure 100% victory, he doesn’t say he needs to prep to win. And this is supported by the events of the fight it’s why he’s able to explain his whole strategy and still win. It’s why he’s able to punch Hisoka multiple times but doesn’t just tag him with black voice. He draws out the fight and fully executes his strategy to break hisokas will and guarantee victory. And last thing what’s with this revisionist history on the Zeno/Silva fight? Zeno resolves himself to a suicide attack AFTER Chrollo puts fun fun cloth away and powers up his nen, Chrollo did not need fun fun cloth to win and Zeno even implies Chrollo would beat him if trying to kill. And Chrollo also tanks both Zeno and Silva’s attacks with minimal damage he even sustains an attack meant to kill Zeno and lies on the ground smiling in exhaustion after. The idea that the fight was going bad for Chrollo and he wouldn’t have been able to last against them is just wrong. Chrollo never backs down or thinks of escaping even after giving up on stealing their abilities, he just powers up and is confident in killing both of them. Overall, Hisoka does not have a close quarters advantage at all and even in out of prep situations is shown to be inferior. Chrollo is the superior nen combatant and fighter. Chrollo should be ranked higher on every list until we see the extend of Hisoka’s post mortem nen amp.

[@whatitdomyhighpointofview3924]

You're funny. I prefer Post-Mortem Hisoka over Chrollo, no contest, but to each their own.

[@deathreaper4166]

@ That’s fine but this video wasn’t even necessarily about post mortem nen Hisoka it was about a what if rematch under different circumstances than heavens arena. I’m open to post mortem Hisoka being stronger than Chrollo, we just don’t know yet.

[@Jandrø-8]

The Spider will carry on it’s will

[@Bakanga]

4th paragraph last sentence- after all, Chrollo did say "In a game, style is more important...right? More than the outcome".

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

Nah Hisoka is stronger and a better fighter than Chrollo, Chrollo was sneak attacking Hisoka and hitting him from his blind spots and his attacks didn't slow Hisoka down. Hisoka hit Chrollo a few times and Chrollo decided to stay away after that short encounter. Also you are wrong again about Chrollo telling Hisoka about his abilities, he tells him about them yes but he didn't tell him how he was going to use them. There's no way Hisoka could know exactly how Chrollo was going to use the abilities. The fact that Chrollo even now is still not confident in fighting Hisoka again and needs to improve his skill hunter tells me Hisoka overall is a better fighter in a one on one without prep time.

[@ednamodee]

chrollo is winning the rematch like sorry to the hisoka fans but be he’s just BUILT DIFFERENT and more versatile than hisoka

[@Galacsia]

Do we know exactly what abilities he has? Afaik all we know for sure is he has Sun and Moon and Love Dial 6700. I'm sure he has some of the ones we've seen previously and maybe a few more we haven't seen.

[@emmanuellemarcon]

imagine sharnalk's Hatsu became post mortem ability .... kurotopi's too...

[@IsaacDionne]

i’m so curious what Chrollo is searching for in the skill hunter upgrade to make him more even or over hisoka in their next fight!

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

Currently Hisoka and Chrollo were both masters of their nen category efficiency. The only rank above that is ultimate, such as how Netero was, how Nanika is. Mind you, this ranks are most probably mainly to their own hatsus. Alluka it's just a child after all. It's just that, her hatsu it's directly ultimate level. Chrollo saying that he upgrades skill hunter hardly implies that he might become an ultimate efficient nen user.

[@IsaacDionne]

@ I am not referencing that really. I’m speaking about the conditions on his ability that let him add a new rule such as his bookmark. Once he steals the treasure from the Kakin empire he’s likely going to upgrade his ability. I am just curious what that new rule or condition is that will give him an advantage.

[@AHPUROshankarMALDITO]

Hardcore community here

[@17vmrivas]

Chrollo loses because, hopefully his pathetic plot armor/ prep time goes away (horrendous writing)

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Chrollo should have just chewed the gum 😮‍💨

[@Trizzer89]

There was a misprint in the manga? His name is Chrollo Lucilfer, not LUUUU-CIIIII-FEEEERR with no L

[@ayyybeee4271]

Well chrollo said he needs an ability to kill hisoka for good. That means he thinks hisoka would keep coming back.. meaning he would have more nen after death probably. And be stronger. So hisoka right now!

[@slevinchannel7589]

Can i tell you about a Hatsu i thought up?

[@SINisterGlu]

Is owl still alive tho for the fun fun cloth?

[@SylvesterRahim]

This is stupid. Hisoka has 1 way he wins. It chrollo that has multiple win cons

[@matheuscidral2680]

I don't get why chrollo threw awaya the poisoned Ben's Knife, I mean, that would be perfect to counter any strength gap between him and his opponents except for the ones he actually used it

[@Bakanga]

He probably still has it somehow just like he somehow got his fur coat back despite heading to the black whale with a different fit 😂😂

[@matheuscidral2680]

@@Bakanga My headcanon is that Chrollo uses owl fun fun cloth to bring all his stuff in his pocket

[@electricatom2]

chrollo cheated cus black voice dont require you to talk to the phone shalnark plays the phone like video game and chrollo dont have black voice or Gallery Fake but u can say chrollo outsmarted hisoka when he was able to cheat when hisoka wasnt able to tell how much puppets chrollo was able to make but again this was due to cheating possibly however if hisoka was smarter he would know chrollo would possibly cheat

[@romexger5011]

Hisoka is the best in the Hunter series my opinion

[@slevinchannel7589]

Can i tell you about a Hatsu i thought-up?

[@ZionWhite-xi9cr]

Sure

[@rare9242]

chrollo if he steals the heil ly abilities is gonna destroy

[@fatboipace]

Shalnark is dead he can’t use black phone

[@sillypopcorn1006]

my money's on prince woble

[@slevinchannel7589]

YYeah. Depending onw how you wanna count, she has Twelve Useful Assets. And that'S not ocunting Kacho-Beast and Kaizer cause that would strethc it too far. But Leoreo isnt that much of a Steretch, so the number is a whopping 12

[@mrbluesummers]

Bro, you can't rank Chrollo's ability to throw hands based off an arm wrestling ranking, lol. Even before Chrollo started using the plethora of his Skill Hunter abilities he was out-witting Hisoka in hand to hand combat. Also, Chrollo set up his strategy with Heaven's Arena IN MIND in order to KILL Hisoka with 100% efficiency. He didn’t want a drawn out battle and there's nothing to say he still doesn't have any abilities in his book which could still counter Hisoka, but DIDN’T fit into the battle plan of Heaven's Arena. In regard to fighting the Zoldyks, Chrollo had the intention of stealing their abilities and had already hired Illumi to ice the Dons, so he was buying time anyway. Come on. Hisoka is versatile with Bungee gum, but when has that EVER been used to kill? It can't kill, but only serves to put Hisoka in a situation where he can kill his opponent with either their own weapons or his cards, which he decidely didnt use much of during the confrontation with Chrollo. So, he would basically have to put Chrollo in a situation where he either uses his own abilites against him or he pins Chrollo down and incapacitates him.

[@MrSub132]

In what universe do you "outwit" someone in "hand to hand". Clearly you don't know what hand to hand means. Unless Chrollo has an ability that hard counters bungee gum (smt that detaches it from him) then he's cooked if he gets hit by it. It doesnt have to kill. If you cant escape it YOU CANT ESCAPE IT thats the entire point of "Elastic love". He could slam him around like a ragdoll if he wanted.

[@mrbluesummers]

@MrSub132 It's called a feint. He used them multiple of times in the Heaven's Arena battle and managed to 'outwit' him in the exchange of hands if that makes it any clearer. But yeah, like I said. Bungee Gum will keep a good grip on Chrollo, but it isn't the death blow, there are still follow up attacks he has to implement, which is why as much of a hassle as it is to deal with Bungee Gum, Hisoka would still have to counter whatever close ranged counter Chrollo would have in his book like he did with that Ben's knife against Silva.

[@MrSub132]

@@mrbluesummers he used that along with cover from the manipulated judge, twice. Then he used it when a horde of zombies are in his face. Yeah, I still dont think that's 'hand to hand' but it doesnt matter cause again not only does Hisoka simply hit harder but you CAN'T 1v2 hand to hand him without getting hit by the gum. Obviously you can make up any random ability that 'counters' that but with that logic Chrollo can beat damn near anybody any time any situation.

[@mrbluesummers]

@@MrSub132 Haha, so the argument stands Hisoka wins because if Chrollo uses strictly only hand to hand he will get Bungee Gummed and lose. BUT if Chrollo uses anything other than hand to hand or a 3rd party he's an abdominal cheating coward and deserves to lose because Bungee Gum has the property of both rubber and Gum?😐

[@MrSub132]

@@mrbluesummers changing the goalpost. You wanted to gas up Chrollo's h2h skills while conveniently leaving out that he was using like 4 hatsu's to cover for him to pull off those moves in the first place. If you want to argue about h2h then imagine a simple h2h 1v1. It's not hard. Chrollo get's folded in a couple panels. Now, Chrollo's main fighting style (using stolen hatsu) depends on prep but that doesnt mean he stands no chance without prep. Don't dig a hole.

[@mel777__]

Thank you someone gets it chrollo will die 1 v 1 he done

[@geosalvador8855]

This Hisoka groupie😂 let’s not forget that Zeno zoldyke was willing to sacrifice himself, just so Silva would have a shot at killing chrollo, you trying to down play that fight talking about “if that fight would go on longer he would have lost”

[@honkler1443]

Your argument right off the bat is wrong, he had prep to face silva and zeno, he even had enough time to hire Illumi to kill the 10 dons beforehand and prep to face silva and zeno where he barely bought enough time to survive, he didn't show the slightest danger to neither silva or zeno in that fight nor the slightest chance of winning. about sticking the antena, I don't think so, hisoka have such a stronger hand to hand skill that is not even close, he can't stick that antena. Chrollo is a tier B character that can win against a tier A character with prep time and good conditions, just like biske explains to killua. In a random encounter or even without prep time Chrollo don't have anything to win against hisoka with what he showed so far

[@badatit576]

I don’t think it’s fair to say he didn’t have the slightest chance of winning against the Zoldycks when Zeno himself acnkolwedges he could’ve killed him if he wasn’t trying to steal his ability. Like just because we don’t SEE that doesn’t mean there is any reason to believe Zeno was lying

[@MrSub132]

@@badatit576 he wouldve killed him ONE ON ONE if he actually tried. Chrollo literally asks Zeno if he would finish him off. He stood no chance 2v1 which is simple logic.

[@badatit576]

@@MrSub132 I guess it’s up to interpretation. Zeno saying the “unless you tried to actually kill me” line pretty clearly suggests that Chrollo was holding back and wasn’t trying to kill them even in the 2v1. Otherwise why would Zeno make a point of mentioning the difference between him trying to kill or not? Also I don’t think Chrollo saying “aren’t you supposed to kill me” is him asking to be finished off, rather he’s asking them why they suddenly stopped fighting. I do think these things could be interpreted either way though

[@MrSub132]

@@badatit576 it's pretty simple Chrollo was focused on defence. Because it was a tough 2v1. Zeno says in a 1v1 Chrollo would win if he actually tried to kill him simple because Chrollo didnt do that and Zeno notes it to say "I know you were holding back" AND Chrollo could instead be focused on trying to steal Zeno's hatsu. Which was implied that he thought about since Chrollo noted that he wouldnt be able to steal their abilities in the battle. Obviously he's asking why they stopped fighting but he's literally saying they wont get a chance like this to finish him off. Chrollo also hired Illumi to kill the 10 Dons which he knew hired the Zoldycks to kill him.

[@honkler1443]

​@@MrSub132 @badatit576 he didn't try offense because he couldn't do anything at all hahaha he is simply not in that level yet, he is like a Tier B like I said, meanwhile Zeno and Silva are tier A. It is what it is, for what we've seen it is fair to say that nothing that Chrollo showed could do anything to harm zeno or silva.

[@bradleywebster3086]

Lol a Chrollo fan boy i see 😂. It's ok we get it.

[@zethw0w]

This is not how hxh operates. You can make all the description and scenarios to how the battle would workout but in the the day hxh is not about power scaling because of his complexity, there is no reason to debate this kind of topic.

[@nooperator2]

You didn't even watch the video lmao Considering every possible outcome in a fight? And examining how each individual ability can be used in tandem with a character's intelligence; as well as the surrounding environment and different preparation factors that a character could include? This is exactly how HxH operates.

[@sladelius6174]

Sounds like an excuse to us.

[@zethw0w]

@@nooperator2 I don't want to start a debate, but I think our opinions diverge on how we view the manga. I know that this type of content is very interesting and increase engagement, but I truly believe that the thematic aspect is more important than the narrative/descriptive side of Hunter x Hunter, and because of that depth, I don't see a reason for this kind of topic. What makes Hunter x Hunter organic and realistic is how it is anti-climactic in its arcs. For example, in Yorkshin, if it were a generic shonen, Kurapika with the power of friendship would defeat the Phantom Troupe, but in the end, what we have is only two dead and the leader temporarily disabled, and we still see that, even with these "achievements," Kurapika is sinking deeper and deeper into a torturous path of no return because of his quest for revenge. In Chimera Ants, we see the most powerful character in the story all the time been stated to be the perfect being to become the world leader through violence, but in the end, we see that all this power was irrelevant, there was never a true threat to humanity, and everything had always been under control. What I mean is that Hunter x Hunter is not linear, and it’s impossible to predict all possible outcomes because, in the end, it’s the theme that guides the narrative of the work. You are a very intelligent person with a deep understanding of hxh. Keep it up, and peace🙌.

[@dr_mercio]

I wouldnt say that someone arguing for Chrollo in any of these aspects is being "dishonest". Zeno literally says "though it would be a different story if you were actually trying to kill me". If anything, the series paints Chrollo as the one with the edge, even prior to the Heavens Arena fight. It would be a stretch to paint either of these characters as the potential underdog.

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

Even Togashi himself scaled Chrollo above Hisoka. Rating Chrollo with 25 points nen, while Hisoka was 24. From legit every point of view Chrollo was above Hisoka before heavens arena. It's just that, Hisoka is more iconic, ironically, to the kids.

[@HoopsRaccoon]

@@Bandit.Chrollo nen scale doesnt matter. If a boxer says he needs a year to prepare for his opponent, thats clearly signaling you need too much time to prepare cause teh other guy is a monster. Nen scale doesnt matter because a battle of nen is always unknown. So power isnt that important, just how you use your hatsu

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

@@HoopsRaccoon if you need an year to prepare just for a certain 100% win and then you wait for the conditions to be met, it only means that you weren't absolutely sure of a 100% certain win. Nen scale matter as well as other things that matters. Otherwise Togashi would not make that list. Prep time Chrollo - 100% certain win. No prep time - chances were higher for Chrollo anyway due to what I just said. Feat point of view, the scale of the author himself, narrative logic, etc.

[@Jsipki265]

@@Bandit.Chrollojust recent chapter gave the narrative point to hisoka wtf are you talking about?

[@Bandit.Chrollo]

@@Jsipki265 I was talking about before heavens arena. Current chapter does not implie too much, besides what Chrollo himself states. And if we are going by exactly what Chrollo means, it doesn't look good for either of them. "Even if I die" - this is a probability, not certainty; "the spider will keep walking" hardly implying Hisoka ain't coming out of it alive.

[@XaldinX]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you one the intelligence thing. While Hisoka does figure out the nuances of his ability, Chorllo literally told him most of his techniques that he was going to use, and that he had 100% chance of victory. This to me shows that with prep time there is no beating Chrollo. If he knows enough about your ability he is going to beat you, and his intelligence is the only reason he survived the Zoldycks, not once but twice.

[@Edogawa199X]

Chrollo should win if were being honest here. Hes stronger, smartert and more powerful. But Hisoka might win due to plot of the story. Hes Gon end game after all. And Im not being biased here coz Im a Illumi fan

[@Nothinmuchbaby]

It’s kinda hard to predict the extent of Chrollos power, but I think he comfortably takes care of Hisoka if they fight again. I’ll give you the prep time argument, but I don’t think Chrollo is slacking in combat abilities off the cuff. He’s obviously intelligent, and naturally a very tactical and defensive fighter. This level-headedness would mean that Hisoka would have a hard time catching him off guard, which is something that the clown tends to rely on. In a straight-up fight, the dude w the most aces up his sleeve has the advantage, imo.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Hisoka had higher Base-Stats before Post-Mortem-Nen Strength-Boost. Soooo

[@Nothinmuchbaby]

@ his nen abilities got stronger, his base stats didn’t change, as far as we know.

[@MrSub132]

Hisoka would not have a hard time at all. Without prep Chrollo simply has to try to survive and not get hit once by gum or even a damn punch. Hisoka is not a joke. Chrollo already knows he might (so probably) dies if Hisoka finds him, which he's okay with because he believes the spider will live on. Stop sleeping on the clown goat.

[@slevinchannel7589]

@@Nothinmuchbaby 0k, fair enough. That's not unreasonable to believe. Well, i mean, aside fom Enhancement being Nen. And you know, that thing strengthening all and being the Main-Source-in-general of the Stats one has in Battle But ok, maybe onbly his Hatsu hyper-specifically really just his Hatsu got stronger, so cause he only ues generic Enhancement-Type and has no Enhancement-Hatsu, ok, could be

[@Nothinmuchbaby]

@@slevinchannel7589 yea by nen abilities i meant hatsu. Post mortem nen has only been shown to affect hatsu, so we cant be sure that Hisoka gained any boosts outside of bungee gum becoming stronger

[@dontbothertoreply9755]

This is stupid, there is no way Hisoka is stronger than Silva, therefore every single one of those points is discarded.

[@ppv1780]

He did prepare to have 100% victory, not that he would lose before, just not 100% chance.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Fair enough statement but still: Guy was weaker, then got weaker, while his opponent got stronger

[@xebec995]

Chrollo folds