Whole Foods’ John Mackey on Amazon Merger: ‘A Meeting of the Souls.’

Reason's Nick Gillespie sits down with Whole Foods CEO John Mackey to discuss the Whole Foods merger with Amazon.
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Reason is the planet's leading source of news, politics, and culture from a libertarian perspective. Go to reason.com for a point of view you won't get from legacy media and old left-right opinion magazines.
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"We're going to reinvent the supermarket business as we know it," says John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods, about his company's recent, controversial merger with online retailer Amazon.
If that happens, it means that Mackey will have reinvented the supermarket business twice in his own lifetime, as no individual has done more to revolutionize how Americans shop for groceries than he has since co-founding Whole Foods in 1980. Gone are the days of dreary, heavily processed, and strictly limited choices when it came to bread, produce, meats, and service. If we demand variety, freshness, and a sense of morality when we go shopping for dinner these days, it's in large part due to the triumph of Mackey's explicitly libertarian re-imagining of the great American supermarket.
Reason's Nick Gillespie caught up with him at LibertyCon, the annual conference of Students for Liberty, and talked with him about Whole Foods' recent, controversial merger with the online retailer Amazon, his belief that young Americans are more "conscious" about life and morality than past generations were, and his take on Donald Trump's presidency so far. "I will say that there are some things President Trump has done that I like and some things that I don't," says Mackey, the co-author of the 2013 best-seller Conscious Capitalism: Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business and last year's The Whole Foods Diet: The Lifesaving Plan for Health and Longevity. "I'm not a huge optimist about government solving our problems."
(Disclosure: Both Mackey and Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos are donors to Reason Foundation, the 501(c)3 nonprofit that publishes Reason.)
Photo Credit: LINDSEY WASSON/REUTERS/Newscom. Kris Tripplaar/Sipa USA/Newscom.
Music: Massive by Podington Bear is licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 International License.
Edited by Mark McDaniel. Intro by Todd Krainin.

[@2vnews902]

Nick, get rid of the push broom on your upper lip.

[@jxg0314]

2VNews I had to pause the video just to give this comment a Like.

[@2vnews902]

Jesse Garcia - LOL, thanks.

[@takerdust]

Leather and a 'stache..is Nick trying to tell us something?

[@jeoboden]

give him a chance to grow it out bro

[@darrininmesa9750]

2VNews Dude you ain't kidding. The whole look reminded me of the pilot episode of Magnum PI Hahahaha

[@kevinc3427]

Come on, don't pretend it's about some vision for humanity. It's about money and getting paid and that's okay. Don't dilute it though, it's sort of disgusting. You sold to Amazon because Jeff would've run you out of business by selling the same products at a loss for a decade - thats why. Don't be disingenuous.

[@ryannickerson1157]

Is Nick going for the Stossel look?

[@JoeyVaracalli]

The stash is ...... But the interview was very good keep up the good work

[@baiaforev2407]

Basically Amazon saved Wholefoods from financial ruin as more competitors sold organic foods.

[@mannurse7421]

I was a libertarian and tell I saw that mustache we need to ban it ASAP

[@healthhavencom]

What's up with the comments? And the gay obsession with another man's facial hair?

[@lotusgrl444]

😂😂😂 right! The petty ppl like to focus on

[@ruthlesssavagehatred6428]

Reason needs a podcast

[@Chrish3594]

Ron Jeremy wants his Mustache back!

[@IamJeremyCharles]

Holy mustache Batman!

[@flynnparish9833]

Nick must have lost a bet with Stossel.

[@alistairproductions]

They are the villian if they support the minimum wage that other companies can't afford to pay, though.

[@Octovisuals]

This is a good, smart man. Thanks.

[@pennsylvaniagazette124]

Great interview!

[@Soulman-lb3gg]

All libertarian men have mustaches now. I've been sporting one for a while.

[@MilwaukeeF40C]

I just shave once a week or less.

[@YouTubeIsAssHo]

Need to get some Just for Men on that tache.

[@tramany7]

Dave Cochrane 😂😂😂

[@worthybanks4204]

Great Interview!!! I love Mackey. Super intelligent; resonates very well with a bit of bite. Absolutely exceptional.

[@CopperNoir]

This interview is okely dokely!

[@legionjames1822]

Amazon is committed to doing wherever the hell they want now that they own you...

[@brianbagnall3029]

Intelligent interview. John Mackey is a great American!

[@UnNamedTrucker]

I can’t. Nope. Stopped watching at 0:51 that merkin on your face killed it for me.

[@lambo200530]

Dude Nick dont know if you can bring that style back. Maybe?

[@scalp340]

The worst part about this video is that there is no "love" option or that you can't like it more than once. Also, get rid of that thing, Nick!

[@JW-lo1ts]

The Professional shoplifting at Whole Foods is effecting the bottom Line... ..

[@pretorious700]

Nice spin job on yet another gigantic vertical corporate monstrosity.

[@WalkerKlondyke]

5:04 That sly smile... That sweet stache... I came in my pants.

[@kiutpi]

B Corp, B Corp, B Corp, B Corp....! John, looking back Whole Foods should have been a B Corp, and you could have put those shareholder activists in their place. And for those of you who have no idea what I am talking about, look it up! B CORP. Its the future of business.

[@megamcg4412]

I went B&N and books slightly more expensive but when drop all the promotion on the B&N website I was able to strip away all Amazons saving purchase book for 20% less.

[@kevinmoseley1039]

Amazon is terrible to employees. Big fucking miss on this piece and bad move by Mackey and whole foods.

[@samo4real977]

I entered the Whole Food Market / Foggy Bottom, Washington, DC with the intent of purchasing bath soap. I was carrying a reusable grocery bag containing two items I had just purchased from CVS. Without touching Whole Foods merchandise, I visually determined that this location was sold out of the brand of soap that I wanted therefore I proceeded to the exit. Before reaching the exit, I was stopped by Troy a Whole Foods Associate who informed me that I could not put Whole Foods merchandise into my bag without first paying for it. Further, he stated that there’s a sign had been posted near the entrance. I also noticed that the store security officer had moved from the entrance and positioned himself at the top of the stairway used to exit from the lower level of the store. I am concerned as to why Troy needed to remind me of a store policy that I had not remotely violated as I had not so much as touched Whole Foods merchandise and why a security officer was placed on “stand-by”. Is Whole Foods / Foggy Bottom profiling, everyone, with a reusable bag as a thief. Or, do I fit a particular profile?

[@manhoosnick]

You can get day delivery Gilette blade, I'll pay.

[@mirzaahmed6589]

Who's buying Gillette after that social justice ad?

[@unapolagetic]

Fuckin rock that stash man!!!!

[@jeanettethomas5885]

Conscious Capitalism??? What about all the small natural food and health food stores that were economically hurt and put out of business due to the expansion efforts of Whole Foods over the years paving the way for its purchase by monopoly Amazon. Being in the natural health and food field for over 30 years, I have witnessed plenty of these store closing catastrophes at the hands of Whole Foods expansion plan decisions which demonstrated a lack of concern for the thousands of people who launched the health food movement. They greedily fed off of the years of hard work and dedication of these small health food store owners when they got their power elite investors together to knock them off the map of existence. The person who is truly teaching and writing about consciousness in the economy is Richard Wolff. His love for humanity is apparent in every word he speaks. Mackeys foundations are a pedestal for his ego. The power elite use these foundations as their playgrounds for get together's with their friends and for marketing their businesses. If Mackey really cared about humanity he would first acknowledge that he is not a self made man. He would be nothing without all the people contributing to making his doing business possible from his use of the commons to all his workers. He would pay them a true living wage and give them all quality health care. After all, they are the ones who are making him all his profit. There are people around who have dedicated their lives to studying consciousness for decades not for making money off the backs of workers but to understand why these conscious capitalism inequities exist and how to change it to something better for everyone.Large parts of the consciousness and health movements have been monopolized and transformed into another abusive path for growth for conscious capitalists to make money off the backs of sincere suffering hard working people.

[@virtualistrust2335]

Whole foods Annapolis started to noticeably decline on all fronts 2 weeks after merger. Customers comment on it all the time. STOP making everything McDonalds or Sam's club. Wholefood customers pay more for higher quality. Mustache and helmet hair are bad.

[@SuperGuitarboyz]

6:37 Apple, Tesla, Google be like : 👁👄👁

[@gentellabs]

I love Mackey

[@ctwatcher]

They did change it, put high prices on and made it a place not to shop at if on a budget. I feed none of them now. Get political, say good-bye to me.

[@Reckless3057]

Dat stash tho

[@jexes23]

That’s a smart dude.

[@jamesdc9595]

Wegmans 4 lyfe. ROC out

[@wronggg]

That mustache should be illegal.

[@biancahotca3244]

He’s a sellout!! No respect for him!!

[@ianharris3502]

#shavethestash2018

[@pimpciak]

John Bolton

[@mirzaahmed6589]

Nick doing Movember in March.

[@mrpancake2401]

Shave the moustache!

[@Gary_C]

the video needs a disclaimer about Nick's mustache! did Stossel convince you to grow that? or was it Kibbe??

[@Benutzername0000]

In a libertarian view, is the thought of a mega-corp that can be more powerful then the government something good?

[@andrewkline]

A mega-corp, or a business of any size, in principle, would only be as "powerful" as their products or services are popular. The real issue here is government red tape, laws and regulation - primarily presenting unnecessary hurdles to creating competition, and then taking extorted tax dollars, which are allegedly collected for the greater good, but the government turns around and subsidizes a handful of large businesses (and banks. banks, speculative investments, and wall street are a huge issue). Also, yes, war (legally declared or not) is subsidizing the "defense" industry. No bid contracts in warzones which are regularly awarded to military industrial contractors are a sick, bloated waste. So, I guess what i'm trying to say is that, in a truly libertarian world, "the government" (if that were even necessary) would have little to zero power to influence the market, and that is far more preferable to the nanny state dipping its hands into the pot, like we have now. Consumers need to become educated consumers, and realize the differences behind what they're actually supporting by simply choosing one product or service, over another.

[@amanuscar]

potentially...but the government can co-op the corporation and then be even more powerful

[@Benutzername0000]

+Andrew Kline Seems pretty idealistic to basically rely on the consumer to get educated in order for it to work, no? Maybe I've seen to many dystopian scenarios but willful blindness is what most people prefer i believe and when a company get bigger and bigger until it absorbs anything, has no competition and is ultimately too big to get any competition, people have no choice anymore and then the company is't bound to the happiness of the customer anymore and can can do what it wants.

[@andrewkline]

As idealistic as it could possibly be construed to be.. I do not think so. If consumers don't start to consider the consequences of their purchasing decisions, that would be akin to just eating anything you might find palatable growing in the wild whenever you felt the pangs of hunger, hoping that it wouldn't kill you later, while there existed perfectly good information available about what was safe to eat and what is not. I'll grant you that it sure doesn't look likely with today's western crap culture, but it's either that, or "the beatings will continue, until morale improves". Coincidentally enough, I think you just described government to a " T ", as opposed to a corporation. You don't think that humans really need corporations or any other business to provide goods and services for the species to survive, or even thrive, do you? If there was not an empirical decree to prevent riots of torches and pitchforks (and a gang of jackboot thugs to enforce the decree), then ANY organization who stepped outside the bounds of what is considered relatively good, or beneficial would find themselves ostracized (at best), and their assets, uhm, "reappropriated". People have to be less dependent on social constructs, and be more self-reliant, or at least capable of being so, and I can't really see it any other way. As things are now, It's like we're feeding the dog that bites us, so to speak. It sort of comes down to stripping away all of the legalese and the mountains of rules and regulations and going back to the golden rule. It's not a complicated problem, it doesn't need a complicated solution. One man's opinion of course, but I know i'm not the only one.

[@iamYOURfathertoo]

Is it idealistic to expect people to want the cheapest, best, most ethically sourced products possible? This attitude of 'ppl r dum lmao' stinks to me of immense egotism and a lack of understanding towards others.

[@MrGuzmanra]

Nick, don't worry you don't look like a creep, you really don't.

[@Insightts]

I've just stopped by to see the quality of the brainwashing and by 2:58 I left convinced that it's indeed top notch alright.

[@ianconn951]

Not a good moo-tang.

[@Djarms67]

Sorry Nick But I hate the mustache.

[@notmousse]

Vegan? Skip!

[@rogernevez5187]

awkward moustache

[@williamnaman3570]

He must be sad when he sees the disregard for the local grocery customer.

[@pimpciak]

Jesus... whats up with the mustache ?

[@mattcollins4550]

I think he is channeling Stossel? lolz :-P

[@jupiterfive1331]

Matt Collins I've watched Stossel for a lot of years, and nick I can say, YOU'RE NO JOHN STOSSEL.

[@georgeosprey3786]

Amazon will rule the world one day.. Question is ... What if you can't find what you want from them? What if they disagree with your definition of healthy food? Its happening even now.

[@savingferris8248]

Shave.

[@micahvick4762]

idk... they "care" about customers, meaning what? do they have compassion (care) for these customers, or are they simply interested (like how analytics companies care about baseball players) in them.

[@ferulebezel]

People who sell fake medicine don't get to claim to be ethical. And Nick, what's with the porn moustache?

[@micahvick4762]

Ferrule Bezel fake medicine? as in mislabeled (e.g. Tylenol labels put on bottles of something else)? or, having accurate labels as far as contents go, but having false claims about what it does (I.e. selling supplements as medicine intended to cure/prevent/treat a disease)? "selling fake medicine" is just so vague, and depending on what kind of fakery is going on, could be the fault of the mfg, shipper, or retailer. or, if bought on amazon.comm, could even be the fault of an unscrupulous individual seller, completely separate from amazon(think someone buying from a Zero feedback seller and then blaming "eBay" when it's not what they expected) I'd like to hear more about what you refer to specifically, honestly, as a Google search turned up thousands of examples, none seeming more poignant or recent than others.

[@ferulebezel]

The later. To be fair I haven't looked at whether amazon sells it too or just allows third-party sellers to do so. And yes, I'm aware that regular drug stores sell it as well but at least their CEOs don't hector people about morality. Whenever someone tells me their a vegan I always wonder (and sometimes ask) what they are trying to atone for. At least with this guy, we know, somewhat.

[@marism6787]

Ferrule Bezel What is a porn mustache?

[@ferulebezel]

Freddy Mercury in "The Game" era.

[@augiespendley3389]

dat stache do

[@micahvick4762]

so, in his mind, Walmart must also be a good thing. its good for consumers(as far as being able to "get what/when/where you want at a price they're willing to pay." Plus the quick segway to the nonstarter of Alternating government, something any libertarian would appreciate, given a 2 party system, is a great way to leave unchallenged your assertion that Amazon is GOOD for consumers. See, consumers are people, and a very small percentage of their life is dedicated to actually being a consumer(buying stuff). For most of the day, your average consumer is a worker, and the most common type of lower-middle class worker is still a factory worker, who makes things that will eventually be sold. Since this worker is working to manufacture things, I'm gonna refer to him as a manufacturer(why should the Owner or CEO be the only one who gets that title), because that's what s/he's doing. Is what's good for Mr. X during the few hours he spends a week as a consumer going to be better in the long haul for the 40+ hours he spends as a manufacturer? I'm not saying it is or isn't; I'm no economist. I do, however, understand simple math, and I think this is one of those situations where I sense that a sense of scale and proportionality has been lost/intentionally disregarded.