Why 1,000 Watt eBikes Are a Scam for City Riders! The Truth They Won't Tell You

I start off in this video nice and calm talking about normal stuff, but as I start getting into the topic I get a bit more excited than I usually am on my videos. Just a warning. I am definitely doing a bit of ranting in this video.
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[@kevinc8811]

I live in an area in Florida were we don’t have any hill, none. Most of Florida is actually very flat. My current Ebike is rated at 1,500 watts. Why would I want an Ebike that powerful in Florida? My first Ebike was a Aventon Aventure just like the one Richard rides on his channel. I really liked the bike overall but there was a reason I thought it might help to have something faster for certain situations. The only road that passes by the entrance to my neighborhood was a two lane road with no shoulders that immediately dropped off into the overgrown ditches on both sides. There also wasn’t a sidewalks on either side of the road at that time. I ended up in the ditch twice just trying to get out of our small neighborhood to a safer place to ride. The speed limit is 40 mph on that road but traffic typically is moving at 45 to 50 mph at least. I tried to ride between the waves of traffic to the next safe area but traffic always caught up to me. So I thought if I had an Ebike that could get me to the next safe zone before traffic catches up to me I’d be ok. So I bought a more powerful Ebike to see if my theory was right. It was, I didn’t have to worry about getting run off the road again or hit by a car. There are two other roads I ride on occasion that are similar. It helps. Since that time they have expanded the road, added bike lanes and are currently starting to put in a sidewalk. Doesn’t it just figure. Most on my rides are 15 to 20 miles long and I always try to ride on the sidewalks if available. It’s legal to ride an Ebike on sidewalks in Florida unless your county ordinances say otherwise. Common sense rules apply, yield to pedestrians, don’t exceed 15 mph, etc. So how much did my average speed of a ride increase since I’ve had the 1,500 watt Ebike? Zero. I still average around the same speed, 10 to 12 mph. As a side note. I ended up giving the Aventure to one of my sons and he’s really likes it. He lives 5 or 6 miles away so we go for rides together when we have the time. One of the things I didn’t like about the Aventure was the power can ramp up quickly and can catch you off guard. Ironically, the newer bike has a background program that lets you control how fast the power ramps up. I programmed it to the most conservative setting available (1) which is even less than the factory default setting (4 on a scale of 10). The power comes on much more gently than it does on the Adventure, even though it’s rated at twice the power output. Yet it will still deliver 1,500 watts at the top of the ramp if you need to go faster. That’s a real plus for me for the way I typically ride or when I occasionally need more speed. If I lived where there were hills or mountains s, or wanted the maximum acceleration, and wasn’t performing any low speed maneuver. I’d probably choose a more aggressive ramp speed. So from my experience, and in my opinion, every old guy should own an Ebike that’s at least 1,000 watts or more. Kidding 😉

[@richarddkearney]

I would agree having a more powerful ebike would prove useful. My video isn't about that. It is about the Law and your point actual proves what I was saying. That many eBike users don't even know they are driving an illegal bike. NO STATE allows ebikes greater than 750w to be on bike paths. I'll give you Florida's law. In Florida, eBikes are generally treated like regular bicycles under state law, PROVIDED they meet specific criteria regarding motor power and speed. The key points are: Motor Power and Speed Limits: Florida caps the motor power of eBikes at 750 watts, with a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph. This applies to Class 1 (pedal-assist only) and Class 2 (throttle-assisted) eBikes. Class 2 eBikes, which use a throttle, can operate without pedaling but are still limited to 20 mph​ Throttle Usage: Yes, in Florida, Class 2 eBikes are allowed to have a throttle as long as the speed does not exceed 20 mph. This allows the rider to use the throttle for propulsion without pedaling, as long as they stay within the legal speed limit. These eBikes are treated the same as regular bicycles and can be used on bike lanes, streets, and most multi-use paths​ Class 3 eBikes: While many states recognize Class 3 eBikes, Florida does not currently have a separate Class 3 category in its laws. This means that any eBike in Florida, regardless of whether it is pedal-assist or throttle-operated, must comply with the 20 mph and 750-watt limits to be legally considered an eBike​ In summary, you can use a throttle on your eBike in Florida as long as the motor power is 750 watts or less and it doesn't exceed 20 mph.

[@kevinc8811]

@@richarddkearney But my bike came with a Class 2 sticker. It’s perfectly legal. 😉 😄 Maybe the crime of riding an Ebike that has a power rating more than 750 watts or exceeds a specific speed rating is more strictly enforced in some states than others? South Carolina? Typically the police only have the time and resources to go after the worst of traffic offenses where I live in Florida. They could care less about us geriatric Hells Angels on Ebikes. We even have golf carts that’ll go over 15 mph on the sidewalks here and nobody cares. It’s like Snake Plissken Escape from New York or Mad Max and the Thunderdome for us old folks here in Florida. Wahoo!

[@richarddkearney]

@@kevinc8811 The point is breaking the law may not be great but not knowing you are even breaking the law is a problem. At least if you break the law and know it, you have accepted the consequences. A consequence of breaking the law that people don't know is if you have an accident while breaking the law it become your fault. If I run a stop light and get hit it becomes my fault even if the guy that hit me sped up to make sure he hit me. if you are riding an illegal bike and have an accident, at that point the law is against you. So questions of do you have insurance, are you wearing a helmet, did you pay your taxes, are you of a certain age, do you have a license, and so many others come up and become issues. If the manufacturers don't tell you this 1,000+ watt eBike is not legally a bike and you ride in the bike lane and get hit by a car. That is not the best time to find out you are illegally riding in the bike lane and now you have to pay the consequences of breaking the law when you didn't even know. People need to be informed. Get the laws changed if you don't like them. I don't like this selling of eBikes that are illegal to be on bike lanes and pretending that they are legal to be there.

[@genz2008]

When staring up a long steep uphill climb, I really enjoy having the extra torque. I think 750w is only practical for flat roads. Even my 2000w single motor cannot ascend a steep hill on throttle alone. The e-dirt bikes and e-motorcycles definitely do not belong on bike lanes or on bike trails. You do not have to stay on full power level 5. I use a lower percentage of available power at level 1 or ECO mode that restricts me back down closer to around 750w when applicable, and only use higher levels as needed.

[@richarddkearney]

As a person that lives in hilly area you don't need to tell me about 750w not being enough to go up steep hills. There are 3 hills within 2 miles of me I have to avoid if I don't want to push my eBike up the hill. However, this video is about selling 1,000+ watt eBikes to consumers who believe they can ride the eBike on bike lanes, bike trails, or other places a bike can go but motorized vehicles can not go. Consumers need to be aware that there is -0- states that approve a 1,000+ watt eBike to ride in bike only areas. Regular bikes created bike lanes and bike trails to ride on and eBikers wanted to ride there to. So an exception was allowed where weak underpowered eBike (750w or less) would be allowed in bike lanes and trails. Taking overpowered eBikes there will eventually get all eBikes banned.

[@EuroYank]

According to Google, Watts is the product of Amps times Volts. The math is simple but SOC (State of Charge), ebike/rider weight and riding conditions make things a bit more complicated. Legally speaking, if you want your 48 volt ebike to be legal (i.e. make less than 750 watts) your controller must be limited to allow no more than 15 amps (750/48 = 15.62). Likewise, if you have a 60 volt battery, your controller needs to allow no more than about 12 amps (750/60 = 12.5). Obviously, a higher voltage and higher amperage will allow faster speeds and more torque, but right now neither variable seems to be considered by the existing laws. eBike manufacturers know this, which is why most 48 volt ebikes in the USA come with 15 to 22 amp controllers. Some mfrs are also starting to provide quick disconnect cables for the throttles, so you can claim your bike is a Class 1 or 3 just by disconnecting the throttle cable. It will remain the Wild West until the laws catch up and law enforcement learns how to measure voltage and controller amps.

[@richarddkearney]

Math. Geesh.. I can't agree or disagree with what you say. I know my eBike is 48 volts and I know it has a Class 2 sticker and Aventon claims it is a class 2. I hope I haven't been scammed also. Even if I have, probably a cop pulling me over will just look at my class 2 sticker and not bring out a meter and test it. Whatever he would end up saying, I wouldn't be able to disagree or agree with him either. lol

[@terrynelson2385]

I think all cars should have a horse power rating of 50 or less. There is no need to have a fast moving car of 250 horse power. So keep the speed limit down and fewer people will be killed on the roads. See, then you don't need to have to have any speed limits because you ain't going to speed. The three classes of ebikes are a stupid bureaucratic idea to begin with. Any bike laws should only be based on speed NOT the power of the motor; isn't that the way it is for cars and trucks? So, in my humble opinion, if I want to have a motor on each wheel and can go 50 mph, then I should be able to get one or add a second motor myself; however I must still obey the speed laws on the roads and trails. Now if the states what to require a license plate for ebikes and insurance and treat them as a motorcycle I'm ok with that (I think).

[@richarddkearney]

Well obviously you should be able to get an eBike of any kind. However where you should ride it has always been controlled by government. You can't ride your automobile on bike trails or on the median, for example. Also, if you have a car there are rules such as the government will tax you if you take it on a government road and you will have to have a license and ,in my state, you have to have insurance. The bike trails and bike lanes were set up for standard bikes, not ebikes. We ebikers are trying to move into the bike area that were built originally for them and, if we do that, then having certain rules or requirements to ride on their paths is not outrageous. Ebikers still have the option to travel around like a motorcycle, just not as a standard bike. Then if you are a manufacturer you have to informed people that your 1,000watt + ebike doesn't meet the standard bike rules and therefore not allowed in places where only bikes are allowed.

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

I agree. About the higher wattage bikes. If I wanted to do 49 mph I would have a motorcycle or scooter. I do about 12 mph and cruise. I don’t want to or need to go faster. Over the summer we went to the western states Wyoming, Idaho and Washington and went on some of the railway to trails bike trails. Some were 75 to 100 miles round trip. No cars and amazing g views. My knees are shot and no way I could have done it with a pedal only. IMO the e bikes are to help you pedal not be mopeds or we will be banned on trails.

[@richarddkearney]

Wow. That trip sounds like it would be a lot of fun. I need to plan a trip like that!

[@garywillhoit]

Hub motors aren’t marked as to their wattage. There is no wattage enforcement. So, parts of Canada have banned all ebikes, so has a city in Florida. I get passed often by manual road bikes passing me in excess of 20 mph. In my state you need a drivers license and be 16 to operate ebikes. But not a fast road bike. No helmet needed for any bike.

[@richarddkearney]

My bike has a hub motor and it has a Class 2 marking. So that doesn't tell anyone the wattage, but it does tell that it meets US Federal Class 2 standards which is 750 watts or less. I guess it would make sense to list wattage also since manufacturers know it and could be useful (not sure if it is currently useful anywhere). To operate any eBike you have to have a driver's license? What about registering and paying property taxes like motorcycles do? I frequently read about eBikers that have fallen and damage their helmets beyond repair and causes me to wonder about how that accident would have turned out if they didn't have helmets. My state doesn't require helmets either, but logic tell me to wear one.

[@robertbrooks7936]

Actually class 1,2 or it’s less then 750w for all class. Not 750w or less, 749 it legal, but no one makes a 749w motor. So if you have a 750w motor, your bike is illegal 😢😮😮😅. People read the requirements wrong.

[@richarddkearney]

copied from federal website which is all I have to go on: Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) as "low-speed electric bicycles" if they have: A motor producing less than or equal to 750 watts of power An assisted speed of less than or equal to 20 mph (with an engaged motor) Fully functional and operable pedals

[@southernebiking]

You are spot on with your rant. I have been saying the same thing for well over a year now. While most people in the e-bike world are going to complain and say this is wrong and this is baloney and their throttle should be able to go to 30 miles an hour. We are nothing but a tiny tiny voice with zero lobbying effect. On one of my videos about banning e-bikes down in Florida, we have had well over 3000 comments so far. I can tell you the public perception of e-bikes is absolutely negative. So as people complain, they have no voice. We need to change the public perception of e-bikes, or develop a lobbying group.

[@richarddkearney]

I knew I would get some hate, but I'm afraid we will lose what we currently have. At first bike trails were built for bikes and ebikers were like "can't we get on bike trails, we are almost bikes" and people said we don't want powered vehicles on our neighborhood paths. Eventually the federal government passed a standardization to declare some types of ebikes to be bikes with all rights and privileges. Most states adopted that, thinking this ebike not being a bike issue settled. Apparently, eBikers are now wanting a motorcycle type bike that can ride where standard bikes can because "freedom" or "you can't tell me what to do" attitude. It is just going to get all ebikes banned from all trails and we will end up being underpowered motorcycles.

[@kai4ryo172]

Interesting topic. I have wondered some of the same things.

[@richarddkearney]

thanks

[@viperdemonz-jenkins]

not an e bike at that point just a electric scooter.

[@richarddkearney]

True

[@curtvaughan2836]

I've increasingly seen kids / teenagers on what appear to be overpowered "e-bikes". The vehicles have flimsy looking crankarms and pedals, but look entirely too heavy to be remotely human powered. Most of these kids only use the throttle, with no pedal input at all. Basically, they find these overpowered e-bikes to be cheap alternatives to motorcycles. I'm guessing that these vehicles are also not very safe compared to motorcycles or motorized scooters, as safety requirements applied to motorcycles are bypassed, and yes, the laws are vague in regard to insurance, licensing, safety inspections, etc., as required for motorcycles and automobiles. Average speeds for regular bicycles are generally between 10 - 15 mph, peaking in the low 30 mph realm going downhill with favorable wind. I think e-bikes, if they're to be considered "bicycles", should perform similarly.

[@richarddkearney]

Fortunately, I haven't run across those type of kids on the trails I've been on. I once saw 3 eBikes out in a field using dirt piles to toss themselves and their ebikes into the air. I was thinking they were going to have bad knees when they grow up.