Why all foilers need a DW board and a review of the Amos Sultan

A two part video. I cover alot of ground in this video and there alot of helpful tips on gear choices. Tell me your thoughts.
Firstly, why I think everyone should add a DW board to their quiver even if you're a winger or proner and of course to start or continue your DW journey.
More time on foil. That's the goal!
Secondly specifically we look at the Amos Sultan - a fantastic board made in Australia in conjuction with Zane Westwood. Mine is 7'8 by 19 and I dive into board width.
‪@joshku1990‬ did a great video with Amos on the technical design side so if you're keen on that go check it out!
introduction 0:16
Making the case for Dw boards 2:05
First reason 2:29
Second reason 3:41
Third reason 4:02
Fourth reason 5:02
Volume 6:02
Foil Width and stability 6:28
The Not a Review Part (that is a review) 7:02
Some extra tips that I forgot 11:33

[@peter240365]

I agree, the versatility of these boards is unrivalled. Flat paddle-up,s, howling downwinds, light-wind winging and to my surprise it's all I'm now using in the surf. The benefit of getting up early just cannot be emphasized enough. it also makes entry into bigger waves a lot easier.

[@davewestfoils]

Totally!

[@asaintx]

Love the analogy. Backcountry snowboarding of foiling. Sold.

[@frankwakefield8815]

One of the more informative posts on this subject! Nice!

[@AdamsHadEnough]

I think you may have talked me out of it in that video where you explained how hard it is, especially given that the Northern Beaches are a downwind paradise compared to where I live. Maybe I can justify one of these boards for lightwind winging...

[@Charlie-fl1tl]

thanks again Dave, learning a lot from your honest video's!

[@leylandroberts4820]

Yep agree everyone needs a downwind board. Just spent the last 4 arvos at Granite (Noosa) on mine and had a blast!

[@davewestfoils]

Giving the longboarders some pay back :)

[@harryhalfmoon]

Great video as always. DW boards are the way forward for sure, if only for light wind winging. The all new Appletree Skipper DW is the one I'm contemplating. Costs and eye and rib, but such a sweet board.

[@davewestfoils]

We don't get alot of exposure to the Appletree stuff in australia :)

[@harryhalfmoon]

@@davewestfoils Nor do I, and I could go visit them by bicycle if I wanted to; It's less than an hour by car.. But that's more a financial thing. It's quite the stack of money to drop on such a board. Prices are currently around 2400 euro / pounds / dollar. But a few weeks ago I've spoken with one the owners of Appletree and these boards are said to be head-and-shoulders above the competition, according to the people that have received pre-production samples. So there's this itch that wants scratching....

[@davewestfoils]

@@harryhalfmoon wow! That’s expensive!!

[@EkapolTharasiriroj]

Just order Sunova Aviator Downwind 18" they have 20+ sizes DW board to choose from.. Not sure if I can padding that thing, but it will works well for winging.

[@henryhester1897]

Love your take in all this. Now we need to figure out how to come up the $3500US. Question… can an older Mid Aspect front foil carry one through the journey cause they are available in the US for $250~ as compared to new at $800+. You mention it’s important to get “new equipment”. Is this critical. Of course there is nothing used in the Baracuda class available yet.

[@craigobikes123]

Not to forget the Kalama boards…he did invent the genre after all…

[@davewestfoils]

For sure!

[@CONVERSAITION]

Thanks for the video and the other content you have done! What AMOS sultan board length would you recommend for a 70kg rider wanting to SUP foil in very small beach break waves? Any idea of what foil to pair it with? I can already SUP surf. I also looked at the Ginxu Dragonfly KT and am wondering on your thoughts between this and the AMOS sultan?

[@Freebts007]

Great info. You are the first person to even mention the phantom as best I can recall. It is considerably different in design than all the leading down wind boards coming out at the moment. Much shorter but same width in stock sizes I think. Frankly I’m even more interested in it for light wing winging but wondering if it could also really double as a first down wind board legitimately also. If you can get your hands on one I’d love to hear anything about it. Literally nothing out there… not sure if it is just already out of date?

[@davewestfoils]

I actually think Zane Westwood is playing around with the phantom for downwinding at the moment. I’ve also seen him wing on a phantom in really light wind and absolutely shredding. If only for winging definitely wouldn’t need to go as long but if you were ever to want to get out in the bumps SUP it will be less stable For sure.

[@benchpressbabys60]

im 70kg 181cm tall, how long should i go for the DW board

[@1JOHNHEARN]

Nice hat!

[@davewestfoils]

Cheetah Print :) @voyagerfoiler5976

[@Canadian_crippler_eh]

I agree where do I buy that hat lol

[@apricotscrub]

Looks like you finally got the HM mast,

[@davewestfoils]

I bought one in November last year. Not just riding one cause I'm on the Axis team. I actually forked out for it myself then about a month later got sponsored by them haha :) Don't regret buying it though. I do like it.

[@royyoung3033]

Hey, question for you when you mentioned tracks placed too far back, can you tell me what the measurement is from the tail of your board to the backside of your base plate when you have your foil installed where you want it for Down Wind?

[@hidalgosantagusti3021]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@AnthonyPaterson-rm4vz]

Hi Dave , what size prone board and foil are you using with the foildrive? What do you weigh? Love you videos mate . Keep up the great work. Regards, Pato

[@davewestfoils]

40L and I’m 95kg. :) Can’t tell you the foil yet.

[@cefirmeza]

Thanks for the review. Do you use the same mast position winging and sup dw? With the wing it appears to be more forward 5:25

[@davewestfoils]

In regards to SUP and winging no I don't - but in those two clips I'm on two different foils. So the mast was different slightly. Not by much though.

[@RamonSBruhn]

Thank you for sharing!! I am about to order Armstrong 7.7 x 21 121 liters. I am 87 Kg. I wing since 3 years and sup foil since 1 year in small waves. I have done sup race (no foil) a little bit on a 14x24 board and a few downwinds on a 14x26 sup race (no foil). I am concerned that maybe 21 is too narrow or should i go for a 23, 24 or 25 wide board? Is 7.7 x 21 121 liters with the mast of the foil stable enough to stand on and paddle in open ocean. I am 87Kg. Could also get some hand paddles if that makes it easier. Million thanks for your thoughts. I am 88kg.

[@davewestfoils]

I personally don't think 21 is too narrow. Given you have SUP experience on narrow boards that don't have a foil - having the mast acting as a keel you'll be amazed at how stable they can be.

[@RamonSBruhn]

​@@davewestfoils thanks mate, cant wait for it, man, foiling is so addictive 😂

[@davewestfoils]

@@RamonSBruhn foil brain is a thing

[@ContentSISYPHUS]

Mate! Thank you for your posts. Rad to hear your story. I have one question, I see that you run an Axis 1130 (I believe). We are the same weight and I have the Naish 2140 with 310 stab. I know you ran that foil for a while. Am I holding up my progress by running the HA 2140? I love my board but the low speed paddle ups are super tough with my Naish set up.

[@davewestfoils]

It’s an interesting point actually. In a Bay run that foil should be fine as it would match the speed of the bumps. But in the ocean the paddle up would almost always end up with you catching the bump then having to cut off right or left to catch the bump behind. Having said that the difference in getting up will be noticeable even between the 1840 and the 2140. I wouldn’t size down too early is my experience. Foils in this video are pretty small relative to the 2140. These are around 1200-1400cm2

[@ContentSISYPHUS]

@@davewestfoils you’re spot on from my perspective. The 2140 comes alive when I get any boat wake or bigger wave. When it flat she’s tricky. Turning left or right is something I’ll have to ponder, rad to think about, amazing thought! It’s awesome that I am progressing in any event. I am seriously stoked on foiling. I got a wicked deal on the Naish setup but sometimes I think the Axis would be easier in the flatwater. I’m sure at this point my right leg needs to get stronger and my timing could improve👍🏼✨honestly it’s just fun being out on the water and progressing

[@IRWE905]

What design in the Sultan allowed it to track better compared to your older board? Do you think it was partly due to improved technique over time?

[@davewestfoils]

Greater pinch in the tail and the double concave I think. I can paddle straight on most boards now - but I don’t have to put as much effort into remaining straight in the bumps. The boards makes it easier to paddle straight. For this reason I can’t get it up toeside winging. :) tacks straight

[@peteraromatai1369]

How come brands still dare to call and sell boards 27’ wide as “downwind boards” ? It should be illegal 😅

[@davewestfoils]

Haha I actually agree :)

[@cefirmeza]

Which brands?

[@ShepNelson]

I completely agree with you on all of the reasons for wanting a long skinny board. They can be a quiver killer if you want it to be. I gotta say though, it not cool, in my opinion, to indirectly say that the Barracuda tracks are too far back. Dave pioneered the shape, that everyone else first said didn't work, until they could get production going, and then once they had supply, they changed their tune.... I ride Lift foils and Kalama Barracudas, they work great together no question. If you want to say it, just say it, whispering about it at the end is a little underhanded in my opinion.

[@davewestfoils]

" I ride Lift foils and Kalama Barracudas, they work great together no question" For you they do and I'm sure plenty of others. but...I have spoken to quite a few folks that have had to get track extensions in order to get the best out of their foil set up - Lift riders in fact . There is nothing wrong with being an informed consumer. Just because somebody like Dave makes heaps of wonderful design choices - that doesn't mean that "all" design choices are ideal. Many consumers would've liked to have longer tracks for flexibility and future proofing - that's a fact. And it wouldn't have taken away from his design. My comments were only to say it's something you should 'consider,' and I stand by that. Foiling is changing so fast and who knows what's coming next that might change where your mast position is ideal. It's good to have options when you drop $3500 on a board. Other brands have made similar design choices and older boards have the tracks too far back same as some prone boards. I think all brands should be using 16 inch tracks in DW boards. It's a tiny weight gain for a huge amount of flexibility for the customer.

[@peterheirmanster]

Great going down wind - How do you get back? Walking seems cumbersome or even impossible

[@davewestfoils]

Car Shuttle. My average run is between 7km -11km.

[@bohdanafanasyev3642]

Thank you for another great knowledge sharing video. What Axis foil size did you use for surfing at 1:00 mark? 😌🤙

[@davewestfoils]

Similar to a HPS 1050

[@apricotscrub]

@@davewestfoils 1201?

[@davewestfoils]

@@apricotscrub no sir.

[@bohdanafanasyev3642]

@@davewestfoils its new a proto I guess?

[@davewestfoils]

@@bohdanafanasyev3642 Yup in the Surfy range. Close to a HPS 1050.

[@martinomovies]

So a longer mast is more stable? Or vice versa?

[@davewestfoils]

Longer is more stable. Oskar discussed it in his last video.