Why all the hate for Vevor?

[@johnhorner5711]

Vevor seems to be in the market segment Harbor Freight dominated for decades. I have an even sloppier milling table I bought at Harbor Freight in the late 90s. I don't use it often, but every now and then it is handy for sure. Super cheap imports from China that mostly are good enough for many users. This "it isn't great, but it is so cheap you will not care" strategy has been playing out in many market segments for decades.

[@ke9tv]

Yeah. The problem with a lot of Harbor Freight gear is just that it's flimsy and won't last. Which is perfectly fine if you only have one job to do with it, ever. And a lot of us have tools we've only needed once, but when you need it, you need it.

[@haphazard1342]

What's wild is just how good some of the product lines at Harbor Freight are these days.

[@1pcfred]

I bought my milling machine from Harbor Freight back in the early 90s. It's a mainland clone of a RF-32 They shipped it for free too because it cost more than $50.

[@gorak9000]

I think Vevor and Harborfreight are sourcing their stuff from the exact same place - it's just that HF has moved away from that kind of product now, and they're focusing more on the higher end stuff (probably at higher profit margins), and Vevor also covers a huge array of products in many different areas that HF never had. I think of Vevor like a ever so slightly curated layer on top of ali express. If there's 10 manufacturers of some product, vevor chose one that isn't the worst, but might not also be the best, and slapped their name on it.

[@OldSneelock]

HF was a source for poorly made tools that would do the task but not well. I considered the cost of the machine as less than buying castings and machining them.

[@SnappyWasHere]

I appreciate that they know they are building to a price point and not lie to us. Plus those of us in that market enjoy the challenge and adventure of making something better.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Indeed, I think they could do with putting that price point they are targeting up just a touch myself. But honestly saying 'we make barely useable junk you will have to really work hard with, but its cheap' is so refreshing in the world of badged markups for that same low quality..

[@bengrogan9710]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 The thing with them is they are largely fixable issues: With the Vevor lathe you can actually make a better quality lead screw for the milltable etc

[@jeremiahbullfrog9288]

You don't give your kid a Stratavarius to explore violin. :D

[@TroubledTimes2024]

"Plus those of us in that market enjoy the challenge and adventure of making something better. 163 " LOL, I didn't.

[@Look_What_You_Did]

Educated people know the worth of their time. The educated knows what effect purchasing on price alone does to a market. I bet you are the type to bitch about the quality manufactures being a thing of the past... Then blame everybody but yourself for the result.

[@charlesenfield2192]

Just thought I'd share some experience related to milling with a drill press. 1) Tapers are not designed for transverse loading, and it's going to have a tendency to fall out of the spindle. It's why milling machines have draw bars. 2) I solved problem one using retaining compound, but slop and flex in the quill made it nearly impossible to get good results, even with very light cuts. 3) precise depth of cut is nearly impossible. If you decide to take it on, expect significant challenges.

[@jambusspeakermouse1325]

I wanted to convert my drill press into a wood/plastic mill. Replaced the bearings with angular contact bearings and modified the spindle so i could apply a preload. Modified the end to take an er25 collet and nut. Turned out great but i appreciate it has it's limitations. Does manage to munch through aluminium but no where near rigid enough for steel.

[@1pcfred]

Mill spindles are a lot more robust than drill press spindles are. The diameter is twice as big.

[@daveash9572]

My milling machine spindle has a pair of tapered roller bearings made by timken, whereas almost (but not all] drill presses I've looked closely at, tend to have ball bearings instead. As a result, the bearing setup on a drill press is much less suitable for side loading. Some exceptions to this, are where some drill presses use basically the head of a milling machine (see Stefan Gotteswinter's shop tour video).

[@howardosborne8647]

Your point is a good warning,as you say Morse tapers are not dependable for milling without a drawbar through the spindle.

[@Bob_Adkins]

I think it is not just significant challenges, but impossible challenges. At best you can mill soft wood and plastic with very small tools. If the drill press is still usable as a drill press (or even improved!), it could be a good education to try.

[@charliemopps4926]

I think a lot of your subscribers are like me... we're looking for something like this where we can buy it cheap, knowing there will be issues... but then there are youtubers like you that will help find those issues and help your viewers find simple ways to fix those issues cheaply. Maybe the product has 10 things wrong with it due to the way it was cheaply manufactured, but I only care about 3 of those issues... so I can fix the 3 issues that matter to me, and still end up getting far cheaper than buying something of higher quality. it's kind of like when I need a weird giant pipe wrench to fix my plumbing... I can go to Harbor Freight and get a cheap one for $20 and while yes, it'll fall apart after using it a couple of times... I only need it once... lol So who cares?

[@thoobonator]

I got a pottery wheel and a thermal camera from Vevor. Both are actually great products that work just fine for me. At the price i was not expecting amazing quality so I was very happy when both turned out to be decent products.

[@mindkiller76]

Bottom line is: you either get a Vevor lathe or no lathe at all.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Well there are many other options out there that are higher quality products, and many of them are not stupidly expensive either - Vevor seems to be targeting very much the cheapest thing you could reasonably sell without false advertising, while others might target the best bang for the buck possible on an actually ready to use tool, and of course at the premium end the highest possible quality who cares what it costs... If your price bracket really is stuck at Vevor or nothing, nothing might actually be the better choice for many - makerspace and the ability to order your part made to order can work out much cheaper and get you better parts than having to own the tool and then spend ages making it useable yourself. Of course you may not have a local makerspace (or friendly workshop).

[@rmora1]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 You make a lot of assumptions!. There is nothing wrong about modifying a tool you own to make it better. People modify hammers to a specific need. As with any tool, it's only as good as the person using it. I have seen garbage made on highly precise and very expensive machines, and vise versa I have seen quality work done with cheap tools and alot of skill.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@rmora1 I really don't - just because you can make something good with crap tools doesn't stop the tools being crap. Or after you put in huge amount of effort to improve them from such a low starting baseline probably only get to mediocre. Unless you have spent more on it than the good tool would have been in the first place... With a quality tool the work is usually faster and easier to get a good result and in the case of more high end machining fits it becomes actually plausible to create that large surface that must be kept to a very precise size. Which is why a local Makerspace may well be a better choice than the worst end of budget tooling - odds are they have tools that are far better you can use, probably have managed to find an old grey beard or two that really really know their stuff you can learn from etc... However that suggestion obviously won't do you any good if such a thing doesn't exist for you.

[@rmora1]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 I have designated crap tools I use for crap projects and I have precise tools for precise projects, either will do the job. As the saying goes " It is a poor workman who blames his tools" Having precise tools and not having the skill to use them is a common thing now that did not happen before. Having precise tools does not guarantee quality work. Precision is nice but if it comes at too high a cost then it becomes pointless. I can have the most precise pair of pliers ever made but what good is that precision when the average mass produced pliers do the exact same job in the exact same time.

[@PatrickRemington]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 Many other options but I didn't name a single one..

[@pierrec1590]

When I see a negative review, I always look for things I can deal with. It is not necessarily to fix them, but still get to use the device in a way the problem does not interfere with what I want to do. Some people do not have enough creativity to actually navigate through certain technical obstacles, and it is reassuring for them to have some place where to point their finger...

[@Stevenpwalsh]

You're adding all kinds of value to them when you make these videos. People know when they buy a hobbiest level machine, they're not going to get pro-grade standards. But now you've given people a path where they can take a hobbiest machine, put some elbow greese in, and have a much better product they might not have been able to afford if it was turn-key. Now instead of a bunch of bad reviews "don't buy, garbage" you're going to get reviews like "Not bad, followed Matthias's guide, and got it working pretty good"

[@Liofa73]

It’s the same with a lot of cheaper Chinese made astronomy products. You always have to put some effort in, searching the web for mechanical fixes, to improve what you’ve paid for. And when I say cheaper, they aren’t even the cheap these days.

[@HerbaceousM8]

the issue is for like 10 bucks more you get adifferent better knockoff

[@nutritionperfection]

@@HerbaceousM8 Which brand are you thinking of?

[@Studio23Media]

They give products to Matthias and let him work out the engineering bugs! 🤣

[@ryelor123]

Its a smart business strategy. It ensures that QA from the manufacturers is satisfactory and its a way to gain a bunch of free design improvements. All they had to do was make stuff that's pretty good but flawed and they'll get the minds of engineers to give them free advice that would've cost them millions if they only relied on the skills of hired engineers.

[@212caboose]

I don't get it either. People made a choice to buy the cheapest thing they could find. Then complain about how bad it is.

[@tracybowling1156]

In my case, my husband bought me a metal melting furnace from Vevor. So he got it from my recommendation. But I saw a review from a great, trustworthy KZbinr about said furnace. Everything is fine with it so far. It was just that the ad didn't quite match what we got.

[@jaredlancaster4137]

Because they ordered the cheapest milling table, and received something not usable as a milling table, and broken. If I ordered a cheap crappy milling table and received a cheap crappy milling table, I wouldn't be mad. If I ordered a cheap crappy milling table and received an object that was both broken and so imprecise as to be completely unusable as a milling table without extensive repair and refurbishment, I would not be happy. That's false advertising, to advertise a tool and deliver something not usable as a tool.

[@OtherDalfite]

​@@jaredlancaster4137to be fair, the table would have been pretty precise had it not been dropped which is more of an issue with the shipping industry than the milling table manufacturer

[@mx2000]

Also, a tool that is „up to professional standards“ won’t just cost 20% more, but two, three or five times as much as a Vevor tool.

[@jaredlancaster4137]

@@mx2000 try 20x as much. Machine tools of high quality are extremely expensive

[@WHSHAFT]

Tenacity, persistence, and ingenuity is all it takes to make most things work. The biggest hurdle is just actually trying first. I love buying crappy products such as these and "engineering" them to fit my needs or to be better, because at the price point you feel it is perfectly acceptable to screw around with it, just like when I used to buy beater cars and do all sorts of mods.

[@MosquitoMade]

When I worked at a big box store back in my college years, whenever people would ask about the cheap in-house brand and the higher quality name brands for power tools, I'd usually ask what they intend to use them for. More often than not the people asking that question just needed something to get a job done, and may not use it much if at all afterwards. For that, the low cost entry point to tools like these are perfect. Is it perfect? Will it last forever? No, but why spend $400 on a drill when you're going to use it for 3 days and stick it on a shelf for the next 8 years...

[@Bob_Adkins]

That was the good old days. Now, they would just buy the expensive one, use it for 3 days, and return it for a refund. That's why you spend $150 for a drill that costs $25 to manufacture.

[@MosquitoMade]

@@Bob_Adkins highly unfortunate how right you are with that statement...

[@phil2782]

Well said, it's why I own thousands of dollars off festool stuff and hundreds of dollars of ozito/enihell stuff. The festool gets used daily, the ozito stuff sits on a shelf for weeks at a time.

[@MosquitoMade]

@@phil2782 I only have one Festool (Domino), but I'm in the same boat! My Metabo/HPT stuff is used regularly, and Ryobi fills in the gaps lol

[@MosquitoMade]

@@iconoclastpleonast8726 yeah... nearing 20 years ago now lol

[@imqqmi]

Cheap tools can be a great project to learn and improve it if you're not too fussy on starting making parts immediately. I've bought many cheap tools that I've adapted for more accuracy to the point it was enough for me. Occasionally I've replaced them once I outgrew the tool. But sticking with what you have saves you a lot of money instead of splurging for a much more advanced tool you probably not going to appreciate the precision during its lifetime anyway and limit you in buying more tools along the way.

[@matthiaswandel]

exactly. And with the cheap stuff a multiple cheaper, you can think of it as an incremental cost on you way to a proper tool if you do end up replacing it.

[@superdau]

That's why I think the saying "buy cheap, buy twice" is bogus. Not only does "cheap" often last much longer than expected and tick all the boxes, it also means that after that I know what I actually need from a tool. The "buy twice" would happen anyway for that reason even with an expensive first tool. I also found that I'm more likely to fix and modify cheaper stuff. That's because I don't have any qualms to rip into a cheap tool as there isn't anything expensive to break.

[@cackleberryfarm4598]

@@superdau DEAD ON!!!

[@HelenaOfDetroit]

​@@superdau the old saying "buy once, cry once" holds true for some things, but as with everything, it's not always applicable to everything. For instance, if someone wants to put a very precisely sized hole into a piece of metal at a very precise location, (and if the 'want' for that hole is more important than their 'want' of another project) and if they have the amount of monetary budget to allocate to a solution for creating that hole, then the saying "buy once, cry once" can hold true. After all, what you don't spend with money you spend with time. Given enough time, many people can get a cheaper machine to operate precisely if they have the measuring tools to determine that level. But it takes a lot of time and physical effort to make it happen.

[@michaeljohn7398]

Thank you Matt.😊. Your brutal honesty, delivered in a diplomatic way, is why you are so loved and respected in the industry. Top job Mate. Cheers from Michael. Australia.

[@CiceroMonteiro]

I really like the way Mathias sees the world

[@bozo8009]

I once was complaining to my boss about the wore out Bridgeport milling machine he assigned me to use. His comment to me was, "Anybody can make a good part on a new machine, show me how good you are by making great parts on the wore out machine." So I did and I never forgot it. Good video Mathias, keep up the good work.

[@Rsama60]

Yes and no. I made an apprenticeship as a tool and die maker in the late 1970s. I‘m German so in Germany the apprenticetime is 3.5 years. A mixture between the training shop, going through the different departments in the company plus vocational school 2 days a week. The machines in the training shop where not the newest ones, not complete run down but also not pristine. So as apprentice we had to do exactly that. When I worked in the tool and die shop the machines where top notch. Time is money, if you can make prefect parts in a fraction of the time the good machines is a well made investment.

[@mpetersen6]

Even a poor machinist can turn out crappy parts on excellent machinery. Even brand new machinery can have issues. They shouldn't but sometimes they do. It depends on the accuracy that the machine is built to. As to turning out good parts on time without scrap parts mostly boils down to good work practices. This includes everything from job set-up to the steps from raw stock to finished parts. In my time I went from manual lathes and mills that still had War Production Board tags on them that had been used hard and put up wet to brand new manual/CNC control mills and lathes. Certain machines I dreaded having to use as using them was a struggle on every operation. Others were a pleasure. Anyone who has ever run a Hardinge HLV knows what I mean.

[@mm9773]

That’s a fun exercise for one afternoon, but for anything more than that, it’s a shitty excuse for not investing in decent machines.

[@geoffb108]

We would all like a work shop filled with expensive high end tools but most people I think are like me and use their tools for non commercial or hobbiest work. I have many cheap tools and make a lot of very nice furniture from reused timber. I live on a pension and have a table saw,band saw, drill press,thicknesser, jointer,and various hand held power tools along With a plethora of good old hand tools. Tool snobs abound on ewe too. I'm happy with my crappy tools and if one gives up the ghost it won't break the bank to replace it. I have a few vevor tools and so far they all work just fine. Greetings from Tasmania in the deep south

[@Rsama60]

@@geoffb108 I kind of agree with you. There is a difference between a hobbiest and professional machinists. The start of this post was from a proffesinla side and that a skilled person and make good parts with crappy tools. Skills are important but it might not be economical to do that. I make knives as a hobby and I had a 35€ drill press that did exactly what I wanted it to do. Drill small diameter holes into thin strips of metal. Drill run out, perpendicularity, not important. Then my focus slightly changed and I needed to get a better machine. Still not high end but better than what Mathias showed here without breaking the bank.

[@gannas42]

Kudos to Vevor for knowing where they fit in the market and allowing for transparency!

[@wayner806]

Well said.

[@2000sborton]

Yes. Being transparent about it is key. Much much better than trying to pass your stuff off as better than it is.

[@ryelor123]

They found out how to get free ideas and improvements by knowingly selling flawed stuff so that Americans will criticize bad designs only to give good advice on how to improve their stuff. Very brilliant when you think about. Harbor Freight kind of did a similar thing by insisting that people get warranties so that they could find out what breaks and how often.

[@ianvanham4403]

I purchased a VEVOR 12v diesel heater 3yrs ago. It isn’t perfect and I have had it apart a few time for repairs. Sure it’s mostly plastic and cheese grade castings but it was cheap and has kept me warm for 3 seasons of truck bed camping. Considering it’s about 1/10 the cost of name brand I am very pleased with the results it produces if not the product itself.

[@ddutton0]

I am excited to see you get into “cheap” machining. I am not interested in high end super precise machining as I am to impatient for such things but, I love seeing what you can do with these tools given what you have built in the past, bandsaws, wood lathes, Sanders

[@craigsudman4556]

I have had a lot of success with companies like Vevor, Harbour Freight, & Pacific Freight Salvage, they may not have the highest quality, however they do tend to be the easiest to repair and or modify because they generally are made of simple materials and follow simple designs. Great video Matthias thumbs up.

[@mturallo]

What is Pacific freight salvage? I've never heard of it.

[@craigsudman4556]

@@mturallo I suppose that was before Harbour Freight I use to purchase from them in the '70s, I bought a nice 5/8" bench mounted drill press. The chuck kept falling out because the morse taper was not made correctly, I just lapped it with valve grinding compound and it's been working great ever since.

[@PatrickRemington]

I love the Vevor for the same reason I love Harbor Freight. You have to start somewhere. These tools, although far from perfect, lower the barrier to entry. It's a great learning experience for those who want to start making but aren't sure it is something they will really like. The better you get the more the flaws will show themselves but that's ok. Plenty of ways to improve them and if it's a tool you really value it will be something you inevitably upgrade but like I said you have to start somewhere.

[@Bob_Adkins]

I bought HF's 20" 1HP floor model drill press thinking I would get a better one when I could afford it. It surprised the heck out of me, it's been rock solid for many years. But yeah, much of their tools are iffy... you have to research diligently to find the decent tools.

[@donmoroz5502]

Perhaps a lot of the problem here is that the manufacturer doesn't provide enough information in his user information so the average user can better cope with its shortcomings. Not every user would be as scientific and analytical as Matthias. So, these videos are like gold for the average guy! Great work, Matthias!

[@rakentrail]

The best way to remove the lash in the lead screw it to have dual lead screw nuts that you can adjust them in opposite directions. This will take out all that slop without making the lead screw harder to turn. The nuts are adjusted to ride on the opposite sides of the threads.

[@chrissmith7655]

Hi, as a machinist for decades I have found every screw mechanism has backlash, you just have to learn how to accomodate it in your work. The bad fit of the screw nut here can be reduced but not eliminated easily, think about it.

[@callmetatersalad132]

Yea, ive only done it for 5 ish years but ive never really seen a perfect one either. Most stuff i use have digital readouts so i just go off that and learn to feel where the screw grabs and starts to move like you say. Never had much of an issue.

[@meetim6271]

Exactly. Every machinist naturally accommodates backlash with their technique. You may have to avoid climb milling but then again it may work if the gibs are tight enough.

[@meetim6271]

Exactly. Every machinist naturally accommodates backlash with their technique. You may have to avoid climb milling but then again it may work if the gibs are tight enough.

[@meetim6271]

Exactly. Every machinist naturally accommodates backlash with their technique. You may have to avoid climb milling but then again it may work if the gibs are tight enough.

[@meetim6271]

Exactly. Every machinist naturally accommodates backlash with their technique. You may have to avoid climb milling but then again it may work if the gibs are tight enough.

[@trep53]

You are correct about the high cost of used machine tools and they may require a bit of tweaking too. Just cleaning an old lathe covered in years of grease and grime is a major task. I did a search for a used small lathe and could only find (in my local Cleveland area) a few that where 3 to 4 times the size of yours for $3K to $5K range and need work. Also they don’t run on standard house current. Nothing wrong with what you have.

[@bulldawgsmedia]

KZbin is so lucky to have Matthias! Wonderful content.

[@Adam_Hebert]

Got a 6 inch 4 jaw chuck (non independent jaw) that bolts up directly to my ShopSabre 4th axis rotary for $89, WIN!!! Also got a weld positioner for $200, also a win!!! Great video Matthias

[@ebrahiemmurphy6506]

Thanks for an honest review, and you might not be a machinist, but you seem to be getting it right, you do a great job of machining , most of us prefer affordable , instead of saying I wish I could by it but... LoL. Thanks for doing metal work as well as wood, love your marble machines and homemade Band-saw of a couple of years ago.👍

[@SeanHodgins]

I managed to get a Standard Modern 9 Inch Utilathe into my basement, but it wasn't easy. 😂It probably comes with the house now.

[@MCsCreations]

Well... Sometimes having a cheap product vs having nothing means you can work and get some money vs... Well, you know. So, it's great to see companies making cheap tools. It's definitely better than nothing. 😊 Thanks, Matthias! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@seldendaniel8819]

Something is better than nothing...

[@SlinkyD]

Until that cheap stuff cost you $$$. I'd rather not make money today that work & have to pay $$$ cus a cheap tool f-d up the job.

[@StuartSanborn]

I like how you fix issues with equipment and are honest about products.

[@edwardtaylor4785]

Very interesting presentation. I have an underlying philosophy of tool adequacy. That is, a tool that is only adequate to the task is infinitely better than no tool at all. A $1 dollar wrench in your hand is way better than not having a $20 wrench in your hand because it was too expensive. I have had a a 9" SB lathe for over 65 years and it was not new when I got it and, through a lot of use, it is pretty worn out, but it is still adequate for my needs and, because I have grown old with it, I am familiar with it's weaknesses and it is adequate for my needs. I have a similarly clapped out Bridgeport mill that is infinitely better than no mill at all and a decent DRO compensates for a lot wear. In the specific case of the XY table it's amazing that they have done a pretty good job, I gather, on the difficult casting parts, but not so good on the simple screw parts. I'd bet that it wouldn't add $2 to the cost of manufacture to make that screw a lot better, but maybe they don't need that to hit their target market and margins.

[@MorbidEel]

cheap tools can also be useful for identifying the various pain points so when you go to look for the better stuff you know what features matter to you. I recently bought a ratchet. The first thing I noticed after it got into my hand is that if I get another one in the future it should have a handle that is at least 1 inch longer.

[@HaxbyShed]

Hi Mitthias, I've done 3 reviews of Vevor products on my channel and found them to be good for the price. Also I agree that Vevor do not try to influence reviews, they give me complete freedom to say what I want. Their main interest is that I produce a quality video. I am based in the UK and we do not have many options here - I think all the main UK tooling brands went out of business years ago (or the brands were sold on, and stuck on import products) so the tooling available to the average hobbyist here will all be Chinese or Indian. I do occasionally get strong negative comments for reviewing Vevor products and those nearly always come from the States. Cheers Paul

[@Tomsmallshop]

Love your last comment at the end, been watching you turn crap into gold for years now. I am excited for this next chapter of Matthias, would be cool to see you incorporate some new metal parts in older machines you've built.

[@astramancer]

There have been many products where the negative reviews sold it for me. Knowing exactly what I'm getting into is invaluable.

[@christopherdahle9985]

Just have to recognize that when we buy these, we're buying a kit of parts for a lathe/drillpress/milll or whatever with "some assembly required". With care and patience, we can turn a lot of these cheap tools into pretty precise machines without a lot of heartbreak if we break something in the process. That's where the fun is. As long as the castings are sound we can make lots of improvements with a bit of filing, some judicious replacement of parts, careful measuring, shimming, and alignment. If I need to replace bearings and fittings in a $75 jigsaw (Hiya, Harbor Freight!) I don't care so much. On the other hand when the power switch and the blade tensioner on a $600 jigsaw fails after 9 months, I get a bit angry (Looking at YOU DeWalt).

[@cackleberryfarm4598]

That's what I was thinking. The expensive heavy parts seem to be in good order. Replacing some cheap parts they put in there with some better quality ones that only cost me a few dollars?!? HECK Yeah!! AND I know more of how the tool is put together and works so if something goes out of whack I knew what to look at to fix it.

[@Shopbuilt]

I bought that spindle as well for a CNC milling machine. Works great, very low run out.

[@davidurfer7632]

I often think about the Sherman tank. It didn't have the best armor, the best gun or was it the fastest. It was good enough in all those areas and the allies could make A LOT of them!

[@bubblesculptor]

Likewise the Sherman was very repairable too.

[@WilliamTGM]

As a german i can confirm that! 😂

[@1pcfred]

The thing about the Sherman is it had to operate in the field thousands of miles from where it was manufactured. Which it did superbly. I think you could change the driveline in a Sherman in a half a day. A Panther tank it took 2 weeks. So even if the Germans knocked a tank out we could have it back on the battlefield the next day. Just hose out the crew compartment and go. Even the Germans liked Shermans and used them.

[@Skidtire]

Please continue to do vevor videos given the option, i'm sure your input on possible improvements is being heard and used to improve the product to some degree, It's always good seeing how you can make cheaper equipment punch above its price range, great video keep it up.

[@brucemillar3015]

By installing a second lead screw nut on the shaft, and pulling the the two nuts apart along the shaft, you can reduce the lead screw backlash to nearly zero. Maybe you could use the broken nut (somehow) to do this.

[@1pcfred]

I've made zero backlash stages by making long plastic nuts. Plastic is elastic so it holds the leadscrew. You want to use a long chain polymer plastic. I'm partial to HDPE myself. Although the elasticity will pose another challenge tapping. If your tap isn't oversize it'll be too tight.

[@bobturnbull18]

@@1pcfred If the part is longer than the tap the tightness may be due to loss or gain of the pitch along the part.. I have had that experience in aluminum.

[@ww321]

I call those cheap machines "work in progress" . They have done most of the hard work and you get to do the finishing details. Thanks for the great videos 👍

[@Ravedave5]

They are fun tools to tinker with, but incredibly frustrating if you need to produce quality output. I have a vevor diesel heater, it has some problems which were interesting to fix and now it works pretty dang well. As long as you know what you are getting into they are great.

[@patrickgr1547]

I feed the work piece against the screw thread and always move the table far enough away from from the cutting tool to take up any backlash for each pass back across the cuter. Given the quality of any set up you will always experience wear. Such as diflection in the spindle or lift in the ways of the table. Excellent channel 😊

[@ronyerke9250]

I think they're letting their customers do the Q.C. that should be done in-house.

[@chesshooligan1282]

The good news is as a free man (I assume), you have the option to buy stuff that has QC done in-house -- for a much higher price.

[@albertpolak786]

If you're planning on the motor drive, I'd suggest using a small trapezoidal screw or a ballscrew, still very cheap and available and would run much smoother than a machine screw

[@seephor]

When you fix or improve a brand new tool, you tend to appreciate it more. You build a relationship with it as strange as it sounds.

[@insAneTunA]

I do not share that feeling. I feel scammed if I get a tool that is not doing what it is supposed to do.

[@seephor]

@@insAneTunA Not if you know what you're getting into and how much you're paying for it. Sure, if I pay for a Snap On tool, I expect the best and nothing less.

[@insAneTunA]

People have the right to expect a tool that is at least usable for its purpose when they buy it, and it should not be a DIY project. If you buy a cheap car it might have less luxury onboard, but it still has to drive straight, and everything that is onboard has to work as it should. @@seephor

[@telemundie]

I haven't really heard anyone else talk about looking for used tools in the way you did, and I really appreciate it. The only used tools I've purchased were relatively recent model jointer and planer, for just a decent discount of MSRP, but as a general rule, I avoid older/ vintage tools. There's a whole market of old tool fetishists who drive prices way up. I've had to talk a few friends out of buying old iron, even if it's maintained relatively well. It's almost always too expensive, and usually requires just as much fixing/ tuning as newer, low cost tools. Not to mention there is absolutely no support infrastructure if you ever run into a real problem. Fixing up hobby level, cheapo tools can make them basically as good as mid range pro-sumer tools.

[@ultimatemonkey]

Why ? Because people expect gold for the price of peanuts... when it comes to machinery you get what you pay for.. if you want tenths accuracy you're not getting it for vevor prices ! Vevor is a good way for the home hobbiest to get a machine or equipment they otherwise couldn't afford.. there is a reason that professional lathes and mills can easily be over $20k .

[@johnnyciantar]

The main Vevor items that I happily own, DRO, 6in rotary table and this milling table in this video, for the price, they are all awesome and make my passionate hobby (machining) very affordable.

[@pb7379-j2k]

I bought a vevor 7x14 lathe and yeah it has issues especially with the lead screw but I have learned a lot and the price was amazing. Worth it!!

[@joncarnes3911]

Matthias, your perspective is a valuable and worthy thing. Thank you for all you contribute to the hobbiest! Cheers!

[@hutlihutdanmark9580]

It is amazing to see you venture in to world of metalworking, I did not no we all needed this, but we do :-) Keep doing what you do

[@sapelesteve]

I really appreciate any company that endorses honest reviews of their products! Nice work Matthias! 👍👍

[@SunyJim]

I bought a Vevor sausage press, a bit of sanding on metal parts and smoothing of things and it works perfectly. It was a good alternative for the price. Much less than 1/2 of what I was looking at elsewhere. If you buy there stuff it may not be perfect, but a little know how and a little finishing work and you can certainly have a functional device.

[@rmora1]

I like Vevor. I like the products I've bought from vevor and always knew what I was getting. I'll always consider vevor when buying things I need.

[@stealthbuilder]

I think you hit a whole new segment of review videos since most manufacturers don't want negative feedback. Thanks for sharing.

[@marvlinke7453]

Take a look at the gibs. The gibs on my mini mill did not have flats where the grub screws contacted the gib. I milled flats, huge improvement in accuracy of the table.

[@Leo99929]

Also, reviewers feedback helps them identify and prioritise what they could and should change when the tools wear out and it's time for the model refresh/update.

[@eformance]

The way you improve the accuracy of a sloppy ACME nut is to split it in 2 width wise (so you have 2 nuts) and you either jam them together or jam them apart, creating interference on the screw. This is how you tuneup an old Bridgeport.

[@roboman2444]

Mathias, i wonder if you can make a proper "mill" out of that table and a router. It would be interesting seeing how you get it stiff and ridged enough with wood, and how you make an accurate Z axis.

[@poppamichael2197]

Matthias, the points you are making with respect to balancing product precision against manufacturing costs are quite profound - but they are fundamental to old woodworkers like me, whether a hobbyist or professional. Almost 60 years ago I purchased my first table saw - a Craftsman - from one of our local Sears stores. I used that saw to build cabinets for a few years, until I accumulated enough money to buy a Delta Unisaw, which cost eight or nine times what I paid for the Craftsman, and which I use to this day. When I bought that first saw, the wise old salesman (in those days a Sears salesperson was often a well-paid, helpful expert who made dealing with Sears a very positive experience) told me how to use my saw more accurately by always coming up to a blade height or a cutting angle from the same side. That caused the Acme screw to push against the same side of the bearing nut at all times. If you were to turn the screw in opposite directions, first left, then right, etc., any slop in the fit of the screw in the bearing nut would find its way into the adjustment you were making. Your experiment just demonstrated the same point - as long as you were turning the screw in the same direction the slop was minimal. There is an epilogue to the story as well. I gave the Craftsman table saw to a professional handyman, who used it as a job-site saw to construct an entire cabin. Even with its limitations - it was built to sell for a specific price - it was a great saw in the right hands.

[@luv2mx]

I think some of these fronts for Chinese factories buy/commit to large lots of manufacturing runs and are stuck with what that got. Probably 10,000 of these sitting on a dock someplace already built.

[@GerhardBothaWFF]

I inherited a cheap mini lathe from a friend that emigrated. Been looking at all the upgrade videos. I think there is great value for hobbyists in going through all these upgrades etc. You grow skills, understanding and capability in the process

[@billide1463]

I have been a fan of Taiwanese cast iron power tools for many years. All purchased with the full expectation that fitting, shimming, modifying, tightening would be necessary. Also with full knowledge that with a bit of tuning I was getting tremendous value for my money. Great channel. senior from Ajax

[@matthiaswandel]

the taiwanese stuff is the quality stuff these days. Sawstop gets their saws built there.

[@petertyrrell6690]

I have purchased a few Chinese machine tools over the years; tools that I could never afforded otherwise. I treat the cheap tools as a kit, and fix it to my needs. Backlash needs to be taken into account, and for precise work, use a dial gage. Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@reinholdu9909]

_Finally:_ I do see a "CNC" in Matthias's future

[@piconano]

These have been around for decades. I bought one back in 2003. I spend a day fixing and lapping it. I converted mine to an XY CNC using NEMA23 double shaft steppers like the one you have, and attached the handles to the stepper without changing the lead screw.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Seems like you came to the same conclusion as me. I've upgraded two of them with new lead screws. On one I installed 3/4-10 all thread and made dials and on the other I installed 3/8" all thread and used DRO's. It is a shame that they used all that cast iron and did a good job on the table itself and spoiled it with bad lead screws

[@OwenMyhill]

A quick hand scrape on the ways to improve the contact and add oil pockets would allow the gib screws to be pulled up tighter to take out the slop while making the whole thing move smoother. Good to see a properly unbiased review.

[@CjHAnderson]

Always thoughtful comments Matthias, especially your comments about buying used machines.

[@paul66766]

I'd figure you would adapt a PantoRouter to the milling table over the drill press

[@specialks1953]

They are similar to Harbor Freight lower end stuff and Vevor stuff works well enough most of the time. I have some of their stuff and considering what I paid for things from Vevor, I am happy with it.

[@MaxMakerChannel]

I bought a electric device from Vevor. First it worked great, then the display and menu were frozen forever. Instead of letting me return it, they sent me a replacement mainboard. That is just not right. I don’t want to waste my time to fix their defects.

[@marclacroix705]

Good morning, Have you looked at the Vevor thickness planer ? just curious of what you think of it because I bought it because it was cheap and though did not expect the best planer finish it did surprise me. I really like your report on why all the hate for Vevor

[@nominou6]

I have a Vevor wheatgrass manual juicer that I'm using for several years now. Yes, there was a problem. The plastic gasket at the back, nearby where the handle connects, for some mysterious reason went into the juicer. So one batch of juice was scrapped. They do include a replacement gasket although I decided to use the juicer without it. It's made to prevent juice from flowing backwards which never happens in my case, as I clamp it to a kitchen counter and it happens to be at a slight angle due to clamp pressure. The rest of the juicer is just fine, stamped 304 stainless steel.

[@dansw0rkshop]

This is the exact attitude I have toward used car buying. The bugs are welcome! And the more bugs I can see and know about, the lower the price it can be gotten for. Seldom are the problems anything major. I can deal with repairs myself (even though I don't build cars).

[@CatSlinky]

Anything that gives us more of Matthias' problem solving is a plus.

[@smellslikeupdog80]

I appreciate the reflection on the market participation of vevor. I will spend as little as possible if it's 90% of the way there, and I gotta tweak it a little. It also lets me become familiar with the machine, and understand it for maintainence. And while I do not comprehend how, I think that's pretty magical momement. At the end of your video, I did not realize you could convert wood peices into a bandsaw.

[@davidwalters8225]

You are so smart and down to earth. A breath of fresh air in our world today. Thanks.

[@joncraw29]

I think your comments re; creating a product that is adequate for a given price point. It seems that no matter the cost, people expect top quality, professional-grade tools. That expectation is unrealistic. Thanks for making your points in such a clearly articulated way. I enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!

[@MorbidEel]

I think a major reason why your videos are still good for them despite criticism is that it show "This is what it cost, this is how much work it will take to improve it to a state you might want". Many people probably underestimate just how much work that "work" is.

[@mariusztomaszewski1662]

You are spot-on with assessment of cheap Chinese merchandise. One has to know what one is buying and willing to spent time on fixing weak spots. This way you get real value for your money and learn a bit more skills as a bonus. Although, above exercise can be exercise in patience as well.

[@kwaaaa]

Originally I had a critical comment on Vevor, but you pretty much nailed it on the head with this follow-up video. I think it's not so much that people are buying into a crappy brand, just so as long as the expectations meet the product they're getting, all is fine. I own a cheap chinese mill and lathe, both of which took a lot of tinkering to get working well.

[@hansdegroot8549]

Great video. Thanks for sharing. Any company should be happy when you give comments to their products.

[@randallmazzu2064]

Been using my vevor 2x72(82) grinder for two years and love it. Did a little modification. Replaced the vfd for 100$ and it’s been great.

[@jameshicks7125]

I just got a 7 x 14 Vevor Mini Lathe. I also have a Sieg X2D Mini Mill, also Chinese made. I got the mini mill new on ebay for $325 and free shipping. I am impressed how good it is for the price. They both need work, scrapping, lapping improving parts etc. but that is an opportunity for a novice machinist to practice and hone their skills. I want to squeeze all of the precision that I can out of these tools, then I can start making parts for an epoxy granite CNC, get it running and use it to improve it's own parts. I have more time than money. If money was no option I'd buy a high end CNC with micron accuracy.

[@Nomadboatbuilding]

Now that you have a lathe, you can make a nice more accurate bronze half nut for the milling table.

[@joethompson11]

You're basically a trusted source whos documenting the main support items for them. Good deal if they want to keep costs low from support if someone can just check KZbin for help id imagine.

[@MaxMakerChannel]

I tried adjusting a mini lathe. It worked but its so weak that it vibrates itself lose. There is no point.

[@cackleberryfarm4598]

Okay... this video is HILARIOUS!!! I love it! Matthias, you nail it one after another on your points and some are just SO funny! Really... LOVED IT!!!

[@privateparty4900]

Acme threads for use in lead screws is the standard for multiple reasons. Seems unlikely you'll find any efficiency in v-threads over acme, it's the efficiency (reduced load and wear) that is their claim to fame.

[@marcellemay7721]

Harbor freight kind of follows the same model...although a lot of their higher end tools are more up to pro standards in the last few years. If it wasn't for harbor freight, I wouldn't be able to tackle 1/2 of the projects that I do. I'm actually probably gonna buy one of their magnetic drill presses for drilling in steel...their prices are less than half of what the big names want for a comparable model.

[@1pcfred]

The most important thing drilling steel is knowing the speed to drill steel. For HSS tools in mild steel that's >100 Surface Feet Per Minute. SFPM = (PI * DIA * RPM) / 12 DIA is expressed in inches, of course. The biggest mistake most make is running too fast. I tend to bore 50 SFPM. But technically you can run up to 100 with adequate coolant. Although if you're drilling very small diameters you can over drive then. Burning tools up beats snapping them.

[@ljprep6250]

I've heard the same disparaging remarks about Harbor Freight Tools, but I've been buying them since 1976 and I'm still beating the crap out of their 5.5" Mechanic's vise I got that first visit. I think I've bought over 400 different tools from them and only returned between 6 and 10 of them as being totally useless. For the past several years, I've found Vevor tools to be in the same class. Not good enough for professional work but perfectly fine for my own fabbing needs. I think they're trying to become another HFT. Good for them. After watching a video about one of their mag drills the other day, it appears that they responded to criticism by moving to an entirely new vendor for them and the new ones are orders of magnitude better. Good show, Vevor. You seem to be on our side.

[@corymain115]

they are probably super thrilled that your show me all the flaws and explaining how you fixed them which allows them to keep their costs down and then you essentially give them somewhat of a tutorial how to make their stuff more usable

[@theironworks6797]

I wonder how much of a difference it would make to throw a spring loaded nut onto the leadscrew? Having some pressure to force the threads up against the ballnut might help with all that wiggling.

[@MattOGormanSmith]

One thing to check is how the gib screws press on the gib. It's likely pushing a sharp corner of the screw into a point. If you make plugs with a flat angled face between the gib and (shortened) grubscrew, it'll spread the load and make the gib adjustment more satisfactory.

[@LuminousWatcher]

"Not perfect ... but good enough for me" - that is the most important thing - especially for the pricepoint. Similar videos indicate the same as you conclude: if you are a hobbyist and don't mind fiddling and tuning, this might be okay. Not perfect, but adequate. Thank you for sharing.

[@nickkk420]

Genuine question, with the complexities of your pantarouter machine etc, I'm surprised you haven't made a wooden vice table

[@briantaylor9266]

I'm with you on buying inexpensive products, provided you're realistic about what you're getting for your money. For the hobbyist, Vevor and other overseas sellers offer some outstanding values provided you manage your expectations. BTW, if you want improved precision on a less than perfect table, you can add a DRO which will display actual table movement independant of the hand wheel dials. If you're go down the CNC rabbit hole, people usually rely on ball lead screws.

[@rainerzufall689]

The friction may increase the precision when measuring but keep in mind that when you are actually USING the table the forces will be much higher and friction will not be enough to keep the table in place so it will probably move more than desirable.

[@krazed0451]

Artisan Makes has a bunch of excellent videos on the potential upgrades for these budget machines... Every machinist I visit I ask them to let me know if they are ever selling machines, the budget stuff fills the gap in the meantime 😀