Why an EU Army Looks Increasingly Likely

[@Ashadow700]

Few things unite people faster than the fear of a common enemy.

[@duskokukolj5571]

A ko je to zajednički neprijatelj???

[@supernoodles908]

A rule of thumb i like "there's no such thing as an ally but only common interests" When the common interests go, things start to fall apart until a new one comes around

[@leondodig9574]

@@duskokukolj5571Rusija. Nije ni Ukrajina mislila da ce ih Rusija zapravo napast. Bolje oprez nego zalit.

[@arx3516]

And then we'll discover that Putin was a double agent for the EU intelligence all along, as he joined them right after the fall of the USSR. After all, didn't Putin work in east Germany during his KGB days?

[@aniemgamaou6591]

Well a perceived enemy. Like it's quite obvious that our common enemies are our current leaders who brought us here and yet they still are our leaders

[@caendiumdivum6060]

ironically how the EU because of Putin, increasingly looks more and more like a federation

[@gameofender4463]

Almost as if Putin is a complete and utter knucklehead who doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[@GGNH1234]

Nah, Putin plays 5D chess with the West. Everything is going according to the plan… 😂

[@fabriziovignati383]

​@@GGNH1234if putin wanna come here, let it come⚔️

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

And the US, an actual federation, is becoming more like a confederation

[@Kalimdor199Menegroth]

@@user-op8fg3ny3j Thanks to Biden inciting factionalism and enlarging the ideological gap between population segments.

[@SuperTommox]

We can't expect Americans to fight our wars. As an italian, i feel safe and protected as long as any other European citizen feels the same.

[@KARADJORDJIJE]

I agree with u.. greetings from Serbia

[@LucasFernandez-fk8se]

Yeah tbh the ✨sassy mandemic✨ happened last year and I don’t feel like doing war right now tbh 🤷‍♂️

[@zzXertz]

Trump wanted all NATO countries to pay 2%, but many threw tantrums. Now you cry and want your own EU army that will cost you all way more than 2%. Egos are too big on both sides of the Atlantic.

[@cyclomb]

@@KARADJORDJIJE lol they're creating an army to fight your best friend Russia

[@wewuzkangz2505]

What exactly is a European citizen? Everyone with a pulse is a European citizen these days.

[@akselst]

Fascinating times we live in. The idea of most of Europe working together in one military organisation instead of infighting. Hard to believe.

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

When europe has more unitt than America

[@DiviAugusti]

@@user-op8fg3ny3jLet’s not get carried away.

[@Behold-a-Duck]

​@@user-op8fg3ny3jhard nowadays.

[@ParawhoreLoL]

This is not a good thing

[@Laerei]

@@ParawhoreLoL What, you want to invade EU and not face a strong army? Are you Putin?

[@MyPonyLooksKindaWeird]

The Nato spending graph is extremely out of date, so you should at least add the date for context

[@chimonellimon]

@seandowney6216 Well go on explain.

[@oscarpetersson5324]

You don't think this channel is pure propaganda? Lmao, you naive little soul ​@@chimonellimon

[@rezolutionist7715]

Idk what you're talking about. We (Slovakia) have the above 2% military budget for the first time since our existence this year - and that's exactly what the graph is showing.

[@MyPonyLooksKindaWeird]

@@rezolutionist7715it's up to date on some countries and not so up to date on others then. for example germanys budget also hit 2.1% of GDP this year, which has been known for a while now. While "extremely" might have been a bit much, the point in general stands: its not up to date, so it should be dated

[@eddapultstab2078]

​@@chimonellimon he won't, because he's a troll who doesn't even know what propaganda looks like even if you show cold war examples.

[@ShikiByakko]

Title: "Why an EU Army Looks Increasingly Likely" Conclusion: "It won't happen" Click-bait at its finest

[@yyyy-uv3po]

The likelihood has increased from 0.0001% to 0.001%

[@X3105i]

The dream of one Europe

[@gaptaxi]

How much is Putin paying you, Germany and France have had mixed Divisions for years!

[@jaspermooren5883]

Yeah, the only way in which I agree with a European army, as someone who considers himself quite federalist and very pro-EU, is if the EU properly federalises, so the army can be democratically controlled (by a proper minister of defense that is properly controlled by parliament). An EU army without a European parliament with full democratic powers is just not an option. It would grant a not so very democratic institution the monopoly of violence, which is a hugely dangerous thing. Federalisation first, EU army second. The other way around is outright dangerous. And that's coming from someone who really believes in the European project, the vast majority of people are far less keen on the EU than I am, and would be significantly less keen on a European army.

[@ShikiByakko]

@@jaspermooren5883 Federal EU is one of the worst ideas out there. It would really mean that the biggest EU states will have most of the say in "Federal" laws. People who are against the Veto and all of those things do not understand that without those things, the EU wouldn't even exist, because for all intents and purposes all members of the EU are completely independent countries.

[@SnowmanTF2]

Eh, I would argue that a common defense policy would need to precede a common army, not the other way around. It also seems like finding a way to streamline defense production might be easier to develop than a common defense policy, since there is already ways developed for reciprocating how defense spending in another country can be offset to benefit both's economies.

[@ArchesBro]

The one realistic comment. I could imagine it, an EU tank/aircraft/humvee etc. Im not familiar with what weapons countries currently use, but they could eventually phase out to using the same equipment. I think there have been limited projects in the past in this direction. Scale might be an issue

[@PrograError]

I think they need a Europe Defence Coordinator for fundamental policy foundation first before anything else... NATO might as well be a supplement to the main CDP... but then only certain nations in EU/ EEZ are in NATO, so the NATO constitution might need a rewrite on the member nations and Art. V front.

[@badluck5647]

An EU army would buy more European-made weapon systems and fewer American made weapons. Loss American jobs can be credited to Trump's invitation for Putin to invade Europe.

[@mitchverr9330]

@@ArchesBroMost EU nations follow NATO standardisation so equipment can be crossed between them (this used to go so far as the ability to take 1 tank turret from say, an American M60 and plonk it into a Chieftain tanks hull with little modification). The problem that constantly stopped a "EU wide co-developed vehicle" is simply.... the Germans. Any program the Germans are involved in, they either lie, distort or force a change in the whole program that nobody else wants and then it might get built or the Germans might just abandon the project. There is also a lot of problems of German corruption and bribery issues. Its very interesting when you look at it, combined weapons development is often very successful when its France and Italy, or the UK and France, or UK and Sweden, of France and Belgium, but the Germans... yeah, not great. Maybe now they dont actually produce as much as they used to and outsource it, the problem wont be as extreme but sadly, thats a problem for an EU/EU+UK military co-operation future on the basic level. If its a vehicle only the Germans make, it can go okay but again, often has corruption issues of bribes etc (Greek trials for example). But it does have a look of the Germans sabotaging joint ventures so domestic ones can win. Then you have further issues of how you get an EU army funded when you have the wide views of neutral Ireland vs interventionalist France.

[@h2835]

Streamlining defense production will not work. Here is the reason why: First we had a common European tank project back in the '50s. After 20 years of not going anywhere due to massively different requirements it was abandoned. France made the AMX-30 as their prototype, while Germany made the Leopard-1. The project went nowhere, as the two prototypes were adopted by their developing nations. The French did not accept a non-french main gun, and the Germans refused to use the Franco-German 105mm main gun. All efforts to make a common tank out of the two prototypes failed, so both of them adopted their own prototypes. Then we had the Panavia Tornado story, where England and France tried to make a variable geometry fighter in 1965. But since the French could not take leadership role, and Dassault did not and will not accept a subordinate role in any projects the french undermined the whole thing, and then left the project. Germany, Italy and a few other countries joined in their stead, and the Tornado was born. Next we had the Eurofighter project. It was originally an UK/Germany/France/Spain/Italy cooperation. The french wanted something radically different from everyone else (a smaller fighter, that is carrier capable). When they could not steer the project to this direction they went and made the Dassault Rafale fighter, while the rest of the countries made the Eurofighter Typhoon. The only successful European weapons development so far is the Meteor air-to-air missile. In my opinion simply due to the fact, that the company producing it is called MBDA. So it is evident, that the French have a lead role in it. So in my opinion the only way to have a common European whatever is to adopt whatever France develops. And this is not going to happen.

[@rod9829]

I don’t know why the EU expects the USA to protect them, strategically US EU relations are mutually beneficial but we need to be able to deter Russia by ourselves

[@johndoe2-ns6tf]

but you all warmongering 1d10t5 keep saying russia won't win, so what's the need for all this? Are you saying russia is so strong and powerfull, that the entire european continent (except russia) must unite to face russia?

[@rod9829]

@@johndoe2-ns6tf "defending yourself against russian aggression is warmongering"

[@johndoe2-ns6tf]

@@rod9829 what aggression? did russia attacked your country or any other EU country?

[@rod9829]

@@johndoe2-ns6tf it attacked two European countries, Georgia and Ukraine

[@kamikaziking]

absolutely 0 benefit to be allied with the US it has caused europe more harm being pulled into the US wars than all the last internal conflicts of the last 80 years.....

[@davidc1878]

As a Canadian in my fifties, I had always thought that war and military service was something of the more distant past. The fall of the Berlin wall and the end of the Cold War meant, I assumed, that something in human history had changed. Now, I realize that assumption wasn't really based on reality and today, the world appears to be not all that dissimilar to the early 20th century.

[@embreis2257]

the question is: would Canada care to join any sort of Euro army project to prop up and safeguard their own security or would they rather put their trust into the US and hope for the best?

[@Dave_Sisson]

@s2257 As an Australian who is also in his fifties, and who served in the army reserve. I see it as important that liberal democracies such as Europe, Canada, Australia AND East Asian countries such as Japan, Korea and Taiwan, work closely together on defence matters. I have heard it said that the world today is similar to the way it was in 1937. While I think that is over stating things, it is important that liberal democracies can present a united front against the autocracies in the unlikely event of a large scale war, especially if there is a chance of an isolationist USA or even a USA that is more sympathetic to the autocracies than they are to liberal democracies.

[@embreis2257]

@@Dave_Sisson I like your thinking and would welcome any such development. atm though, Asian countries like Japan and Korea see it fit to support Ukraine only with humanitarian aid while Australia as well as Canada didn't exactly outdo themselves in aiding Ukraine, not to mention New Zealand. to be fair, countries like Italy, Spain or Belgium fall woefully short of aid to Ukraine too. it seems we all have a very long way to go before we get to the ideal point you envisaged - if we ever get there.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@Dave_Sisson Yeah, especially if people were to rebel against their government. Would be able to put it down easy. "For democracy" of course.

[@joschmo4497]

Canadians be woke. It's all fun and games when you're surrounded by fish on 3 sides, and American on the south. If Americans knew where Canada is, you'd be a refugee.

[@drivingduck2234]

I used to be extremely against this idea, Now given the possibility of the Trump administration return, i am more interested in this than ever

[@Boomerrage32]

I too am for this but I wonder why you and others were so against the idea to begin with? I don't mean to turn this into a dick measuring contest but I reached this conclusion years and years ago. Could you shed some light on why you used to be against the idea of an EU army?

[@derdraufganger4799]

@@Boomerrage32 For me the biggest issue was the lack of necessity. Nobody in the world is in a position to realistically threaten NATO. Therefore, it would not have been worth tackling such a project given problems such as financing or quarrels like Hungary, who would never agree. Only now it has become clear that the USA is not a reliable partner with presidents like Trump does it become necessary to tackle such a project seriously, despite the difficulties and obstacles.

[@anti-emo4721]

@@Boomerrage32 Because that Army could be used against a country that doesn't comply with some EU rules or regulations.

[@stes5429]

It will mean less money allocated to welfare, and more on the war industry, as the US economic model that in these days relies on his war machine to get his GDP higher. It is a very controversial move, like what, are we going to just cause war around the war just for our economic benefits? That's absurd, EU was based on commerce and a mediator connecting the world for peace, not to support shady war plans.

[@AliCousins-uu8xm]

NATO is fine it is just some countries don't pay there way and that will get worse if the EU go it alone. Trump on election platforms makes noises but the bottom line is Trump is right if you are in a club with club rules you pay in 2%

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

No longer can the American system of government be entrusted with our safety and we must see to our own safety, energy independence and commercial enterprise.

[@Jonas_M_M]

American system of government,ie. democracy? presidentialism? federalism?

[@andrewbobb3170]

America: *Slow claps* P.S. There is no "American system of government." America, even in specific reference to the 50 States, is a culture. I think you mean United States.

[@venetoaward]

Strongly agreed and I would also say "about time"

[@shayesmithcustomlyricvideos]

Why would any European nation want to entrust their own safety to another nation? Those of us in the US will always be Europe’s ally…but we don’t want to be in charge of your safety…and you shouldn’t want us to be in charge.

[@RetroRadianceLight]

American system of government? You mean an Oligarchy?

It's fascinating how Volt policies - despite them only being in like 4 parliaments - gain more and more traction. Some years ago, no one would have dared to sign such a statement, even though it's necessary for an ever more united Europe to have one military, not 27 desynced ones.

[@paulloeper916]

💯

[@lucasamorelliribeirokornex60]

💪🇪🇺

[@larcorba]

So true 🙏🏼

[@arturobianco848]

Hehe i voted for them in my nationale elections the last time

[@toyotaprius79]

Can't say you're unbiased with that purple-volt EU flag combo in your pfp Volt has shown an appalling attitude towards Palestinians though and entertain xenophobic and islamophobic views in recent months.

[@westrim]

A 27 nation army couldn't hold me back?

[@Crimethoughtfull]

Haha that's a clever one!

[@myleskgallagher]

Speaking as an American, YES!! PLEASE!!! Your defense shouldn't be our job.

[@FightingMango]

America kind of makes it their job by spending more on military than the top ten other countries combined.

[@St0rrrm]

Russian containment is your policy and follows your strategic interests. That's why your army is there, not because you are good samaritans. Europe's interest is to have cheap energy to keep its industry going.

[@Laerei]

Oh btw, Putin wants Alaska back. By that I mean... Russia is not only Europe's problem.

[@ernst91]

​@@St0rrrmWe are going to join Russia.

[@myleskgallagher]

@@St0rrrm Who ever said we were good Samaritans? We're just living in the past.

[@vablo7198]

I cant wait to find out about the procurement nightmares once efficient armies have to put up with germany.

[@arturobianco848]

Ah Germanes are pretty efficient its just ther governement thats a bit slow better to let a speciale EU commision do the front work.

[@NemeczeK101]

Just don't let the Germans march to Moscow during winter, they're not good at that.

[@paul1979uk2000]

Actually, if an EU military were to form, EU military projects would likely get spread around the EU countries to the ones more effective on certain types of military projects, something we kinda already see today, other countries in the EU would have a bigger incentive in building the capabilities to win over the big military contracts, and a lot of these contracts could be massive because it's not just arms building for the EU, a lot of these arms will be sold on the world stage to other countries, a bit like what the US does already.

[@arturobianco848]

@@paul1979uk2000 Well there is that to yes.

[@vablo7198]

@@paul1979uk2000 And germany is overhauling their military with 100billion. Everything works in theory. I suspect a Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland military would work better since all the countrys have a pretty specific goal and conscription in place. Germany and France are just too hard to work with.

[@Emet-wd5mz]

me: A Slovak citizen Me seeing this clip: 4:50 My head: Wait... we have a tank? Like I know we have but I had no idea that some are actualy functional

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

Funny how the EU has near exact same territory has Germany had in 1943 + They are sending tanks against the russian's .... again. And ruled by a NON ELECTED gov in Brussel. Incredible how nobody makes the parallels and wake the f up. History trully repeat itself over and over again faking being something different.

[@SRPSvatoslav]

Bro there are so many in Trebišov and Michalovce. And that is an old soviet BVP not a tank

[@psycele2859]

3:30 many countries on the border have taken the threat seriously. Here in Finland there has always been mandatory conscription.

[@Abotekapio]

At 2:17 you highlight Cyprus when you mention the formerly eastern block countries. Cyprus was neutral officially and de facto more aligned with the west

[@bobbymozza]

The first thing the EU army could do is stop Turkey from illegally occupying part of Cyprus.

[@-Lazy]

​@@bobbymozzaWhat is illegal occupation? Occupation is Occupation. Is there a legal Occupation?

[@michaelpilos]

True!

[@rozkaz661]

Its truly a blessing to live as a european in times when almost the entire continent is working together and not against each other. No matter if army is created or not, we got eachothers backs eurobros

[@MrFalut]

is this a farce ? Most of our capitals are living in permanent unrest, we've illegals pouring in from the south and our politicians seem totally fine with it.

[@maX-hv4uc]

Love my european brothers and sisters ❤ we are autistic together ❤

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@masterblaster848 if that's true then it still doesn't change anything Rozkaz said, you are just a bot/troll

[@user-ct7mw9yu6n]

​@@masterblaster848serbian bot how cute 😂

[@johndoe2-ns6tf]

@@TheOmegaXicor and you are just another NPC, blindly following the will of politicians, globalists and banksters. You are so brave. YOU F M0R0N.

[@paulbo9033]

Remember when Remainers told Brexiteers dont be absurd there is not going to be an EU army. 🤔

[@davidevans916]

Ironically Brexit made this more likely. Also what exactly is wrong with us Europeans working together to defend our homeland.

[@paulbo9033]

@@davidevans916 lols, Brexit absolutely did not make it more likely. Actually I doubt an EU army will happen because there are too many destabilising consequences that would make the European theatre a much more dangerous place. 1. Russia would have to respond to maintain the balance of power. 2. The UK would also. 3. The US would see it as a theoretical threat to their hegemony and respond. 3. It will lead to question marks over NATO also. 4. There is no way Poland and France in particular will cede military autonomy to the EU, and probably a lot of nation states in the EU will not cede military control. Basically if there is an EU army it will be kept extremely weak or even toothless. NATO will almost certainly remain the primary vehicle for European security.

[@davidevans916]

@@paulbo9033 the Americans aren’t going to pay for our defence forever. Get real. Also Brexit disengaged a major European power from the continent, making us all in the West weaker and empowering our enemies. Which is one of the reasons why our enemies see us as weak and are now coming for us. Well done 👍

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@davidevans916 That's cute, you think it's "Us". That's really cute. "Me and the boys" XD

[@tedcrilly46]

@@paulbo9033 There won't be a singular army. What is happening is a subgroup which is basically NATO minus USA. A coalition. Ceding military control is not necessary with nato, ceding military control is not necessary for an EU coalition. Nato at this stage is not trusted. CSDP is EU's own response for when America changes its mind. Russia, UK or US cannot stop this. CSDP has multiple oversea missions right now, including anti-piracy off Yemens coast (operation atalanta).

[@Andrei-hq9jd]

I'm a Eastern European who has lived in UK for a long time, I also served in the militray back home (within EU) and honestly I have always been for EU army. I don't care what globalism fears people have. Europe must be united. Even back in my military days, EU army was all about fast response units to promote efficiency and defensive capabilities between EU borders. We are a contintent full of countries that share defense interest. People that are anti EU and anti EU synergy in our military potentials are not looking out for the best interest of us Europeans.

[@siryassenius1783]

I am so happy to finally see a fellow Eastern European support such an endeavour. Especially home there seem to be a lot of anti - EU retorique, not only among politicians and Russian propaganda, but also among a lot of common citizens. And I know the EU isn't perfect and sometimes they do make really shit decisions, but we as a whole are Europeans and must look out for our own common European interests. Not be subservient to Russia or the USA, or anyone else for that matter. Sadly things really don't seem to change for the better...

[@2msvalkyrie529]

If you love the EU so much why stay in UK ?? !

[@rosshilton]

Maybe you should leave the UK of you think “anti EU people are not looking out for the best interests of Europeans”

[@Andrei-hq9jd]

@@2msvalkyrie529 UK is my home and I came here when It was in the EU. What a silly question.

[@Andrei-hq9jd]

@@rosshilton Maybe you should pull your ass out of your ass and remember that Britain is a free country where people are allowed to express views and that doesn't make them any less pariotic.

[@UNNOIN]

Yeah, so, you've got to give it to Farage at this point. He called them out on their plans for an EU Army years ago and he was dismissed and laughed at!

[@johnnykotletti4614]

What is wrong with you brits ? They had plans and talked _openly_ about an EU army long before Farage ever talked about it.

[@mattcraztex9940]

Poland out there with Nearly 4% GDP going towards there Defence but Germany Italy and France ca barley scrap together 2% while having much larger economies is hilarious. Goes to show who really takes defence seriously.

[@daconvertible534]

No it shows you whos lead is a suicide squad and whos not

[@willc1294]

@@daconvertible534 Germans realise money is the most important thing in life

[@gasmanoo2]

Poland shares border with Russia and Belarus, Germany and France don´t. Of course Poland would invest more into their military/defence force.

[@AliothAncalagon]

As a German I always argued in favour of a EU army. Apart from the obvious efficiencies of having one united army instead of 20 seperate ones, I would also feel much more comfortable with defending the Union together as one. Its also an elegant way of finding consensus on what to do. 10 people discussing over what to do together is always better than 10 people doing their own thing.

[@petervanderwoude6316]

The dutch army has already mostly integrated with the german army

[@jelmer1984]

A disgrace.

[@Judge_Magister]

Dat nooit! Rot moffen.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Yeah.......Putin must be really terrified now .😂😂😂 !

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

@@2msvalkyrie529 seeing how he has spent the last 2 years getting clapped by Ukraine and only started winning when his puppets in the USA congress starved the defenders of ammo, putins pissing his pants over a unified Europe

[@MedEwok]

And that's how it should be. The Dutch are our brothers and we will protect them as such, although given the deplorable state of our army we need to up our game. A joint dutch-german aircraft carrier group would also make sense, making full use of dutch naval expertise.

[@dontsupportrats4089]

Just to be clear: The EU should have been forming a defense force full speed two years ago. Regardless of who is elected in the US, it is still Europe's responsibility to defend itself and field a co-operative military defense army. Th US is supposed to be an added layer, not Europes entire defense.

[@kolerick]

thing is, EU members were mostly paying the "protection fee" to the USA by buying their stuff and so, didn't have the money to do much more... even more relevant for Eastern members who were paying "luxury items" with their limited budget... (because US made stuff is expensive relative to their budget)

[@dontsupportrats4089]

That isn't true. Europe has its own manufacturers to buy military equipment from. The eastern members could have bought from France, Sweden, UK, The Swiss etc. Only ONE European country has consistently been spending the 2% of GDP on their military as agreed in Nato. That 2% should have been spent regardless of whom it was spent with. It is indefensible that the money was not spent on Defense as it should have been and should be now (even now most european countries are below the 2%). What you are saying is propaganda. The US umbrella is NUCLEAR & LOGISTICAL, not conventional, though the US took that role because of lack of European spending on their own defense. Look now how they are still shipping 40% of their artillery shells out of Europe to 3rd party countries instead of sending them to Ukraine. You can't seriously expect the US to buy shells to defend Europe when Europe is more interested in selling shells to Arabs and making money than defending themselves from an imminent existential threat.@@kolerick

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

The WEF's personal army to quell rebellion in "Ze new order"... The "baaaahs" of the sheep will turn to screams.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Another one who realised Trump was right !! Better late than never I suppose ?

[@dontsupportrats4089]

TRUMPS WEAKNESS IS THE REASON FOR THIS INSTABILITY. @@2msvalkyrie529

[@gj1234567899999]

Trump was not against nato. He was upset that most nato members did not spend their required 2% GDP on defense. They did not invest in having adequate weapons or troops, yet expected America to save them if war with Russia broke out which is obviously unfair. Also Trump pointed out Europe was heavily dependent on Russian oil and gas, making Russia rich while supposedly being in an alliance to protect against Russia. He felt America was getting the bad end of the deal. Europe and shows like this are doing so much gaslighting.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

But Orange man bad! Checkmate, Buddhists

[@MrSigmaSharp]

"There is just not enough union in the union" truer words have never been spoken.

[@antonijaume8498]

The UK disliked a real European union, which is why they foisted an accelerated admission of former COMECON countries to the EU, AFAICT the Brits deemed them to be a poison pill to a strong EU, like we see with Hungary under the leadership of Orbán.

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

@@antonijaume8498 I see that as nothing but a good thing. We are lands with similar goals, not the United States. People need to understand and respect the fact that there will never be a real union and anything resembling it must go poof into the night.

[@wewuzkangz2505]

@@Wendeta-hq2cp I don't want my government to have anything to do with a bunch of despotic Western countries that flood their own nations with millions of genetically different peoples to replace their own native stock because they hate them.

[@krainex]

​@@Wendeta-hq2cpagreed, i dont want to be ruled by goverment in Bruksela. Economic union is fine

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

@@krainex I don't want Brukselia either. But I suppose I was vague in that original comment.

[@rafalwyszkowski70]

I hope this new EU army will be woke, green, carbon neutral and alphabet friendly. Russians will surely turn around and run for cover.

[@Matt-rq3bu]

Once again, Farage was right.

[@vladsview194]

🤣

[@sebatolle8979]

absolutely necessary

[@ParawhoreLoL]

For a federalist nightmare

[@tanker00v25]

​@@ParawhoreLoL you are coping and seething rn

[@kartikeyatiwari2502]

When are u signing up?

[@TottiSchlecker]

When everyones in it

[@johndoe2-ns6tf]

necessary for what? i guess people never learn from history.

[@user-yw6tm6cw1s]

An EU army. Anyone that would enlist in such an army should seek psychiatric help. Risk your life for what. At this stage the EU is far worse than the old USSR

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

Risk my life to defend the people and values I care about against a foreign invader trying to subjugate us? I mean, that'd be the purpose of the army, right, to defend Europe in case of an invasion.

[@NemeczeK101]

@@HeadsFullOfEyeballsIf only you knew how soy things are.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

I'm guessing then that you don't want to hear about the random westerners who went to fight for Ukraine? You would be surprised how nicely combined words and a TV screen will get you.

[@siameeshessel1967]

Womp womp

[@juocyjay5732]

A United EU army would give not only security, but also leverage against the US within NATO.

[@hackman669]

Create your own army screw NATO. Also no electriial college and more than 2 corrupt parties. US is a failure. We will not be here in 100 years. You have to carry the torch 🔦 of civilization for now on. Humanity needs you. 😐

[@abelg6197]

6:00 Hard to believe but Orban is actually pro EU-army. He said this in 2022 after Russian invaded Ukraine: There is no European army, even though it is needed! There is no common defense policy, force development is uncoordinated. - listed Orbán, and then to the legitimate reporter's question about how the common defense policy can be reconciled with the needs of strong nation states, the Hungarian Prime Minister shared perhaps the most important thoughts of the interview: It is a mistake to treat the issue of European federalism as a black and white problem. There are areas that are better handled by nation states. However, there are also those in which we can only maintain our importance if we think in terms of a united Europe. One of these is the issue of defense policy. The states of continental Europe must work together to jointly achieve and defend our successes.

[@simonsaysno]

I was looking for this comment.

[@Tespri]

he is authoaritarian and a dictator... he would love nothing more than increasing totalitarianism in Europe. EU army will eventually be used against countries that doesn't fall in line with EU's policies.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

It's more of a tribalistic problem. Orban is an "enemy" of the modern progressives cult, so everything he say and does is automatically assumed "bad".

[@pax6833]

People forget that Orban is pro-Orban, he would happily throw Putin under the bus if it suited his interest. He has mostly been like Erdogan, playing both sides to his advantage.

[@marynadononeill]

Isn't he the next EU president?

[@dannyboy8850]

EU countries can't afford to payup and meet the NATO funding of 2% of GDP. How can they afford additional defend spending as an add-on? This is a joke. 😂😂😂

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

Right? It's fun seeing them try to peddle this pipedream though. This armeh will be just like everything else: on paper. We do have a term for it: we will be a paper tiger!

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@Wendeta-hq2cp If the WEF realizes they have a chance for a personal army, somehow dreams will magically become reality I suspect.

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

@@Klongu_Da_Bongu Not really. They want one to keep us in line. But they can't have one because they cannot keep us in line.

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

@@Klongu_Da_Bongu It's purpose is control, but control is needed to achieve it. It's a self-fulfilling failure. Aka a pipe-dream.

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

​@@Klongu_Da_Bongu I woukd love to respond, but I am being censored. Please know that it is impossible due to reasons I'm not allowed to say. Edit: Do all of them show up now? Because YT is having a day.

[@blackjack8043]

During the UK EU membership debates 10 years ago this was warned by euroskeptics and mocked as false by europhiles. Turns out the skeptics were right

[@kimwit1307]

Times change.

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

Yes and no. 10 years ago Putin had not yet invaded Europe. Russia doing that in the 21st century was a ludicrous idea... today has proven that ludicrous ideas are happening all around the world.

[@wonderplaceholder]

Did the euroskeptics predict Putin's invasion as well?

[@orktv4673]

During the debates a common EU defense plan was dismissed as fearmongering by skeptics and considered unnecessary by pro-European groups. Both were wrong, the former more than the latter.

[@michaeldunham3385]

​@@wonderplaceholderwe have NATO to deal with him

[@bhante1345]

EU viewers, if you don't like the sounds of an EU army, keep an eye out for the new Volt party. They are a federalist party, who are of course super inclusive, LGBT friendly who care about butterflies, fluffy clouds and a continent wide Federal Army.

[@justskip4595]

Greetings from Finland. I oppose this completely. We joined NATO and that is all we need with our bilateral treaties. As long as we have conscription, I will be against foreign powers having military say over us as that is our job as conscripts to do. Allies are completely different thing.

[@Doss3332]

As another person from Finland, that is a pretty stupid reason to not want a European army. Nato is not a reliable defence organization anymore due to an increasingly likely Trump presidency, and fighting alone without strategic independence (nato took that) is exactly what everyone wants to avoid. I would much rather have the French and Italians backing us up when we fight the Russians. And i dont just mean the vague article 5, but that they would actually put boots on the ground for us. Nato is only the framework for us. Also do you really think that Russia and Putin care about your opinion on this? It makes no differencr whether you think this is a good idea, objectively it will be bad for Russia if we join forces instead of staying divided.

[@arx3516]

Just look at Turkey and Hungary and you'll understand why NATO isn't 100% reliable. And also keep in mind what Trump said recently. Besides, NATO is totally unbalanced, with the USA calling the shot. Just remember how they used article 5 to drag us into the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11. A terrorist attack that didn't warrant the use of article 5. P.S: as an Italian i'd love a european federal military, as it would help us streamline our own armed forces. It would actually help us ALL save a lot of money.

[@justskip4595]

@@Doss3332 Well aren't you stupid. Do you think that bigger countries like Germany and France care about us? They would be the ones controlling the EU army and while in NATO we are trusting in the same countries, we're at least investing in our own military that we can control and others are too. If some do decide not to help us, others can decide to help us. Then there's other also important thing that it could be used to things we wouldn't want to but we'd be forced into. Controlling your own military is likely practically the most important thing a nation needs to do. Some division and some unity are good things, going too far with either is not good.

[@caiolucas8257]

I'm sorry, but do you see what's happening in the US? The EU army talks will die down if Biden wins, but even then the European members of NATO should be able to defend themselves regardless of the alliances.

[@mihail-_]

​@@Doss3332. As a Russian, I will say that you, Fin, are a fool. You are not thinking about avoiding war and escalation, but about what will happen in the war with Russia. I'll tell you what, pray to all your gods that this war does not happen, because you will be the first to go for meat, and this is not a threat, but a fact, we have a border with you. And instead of building normal relations with the "threat", as Finland did during the Cold War, you lie down under the United States and also demand nuclear weapons on your territory. Are you tired of living? Are there not enough neurons to understand that you are only making things worse? Do you want to be independent? You didn't succeed.

[@a.d.clarke4990]

During Brexit Debate: Remainers: There’s no plans for an EU Army. Now: EU: We need an EU army! 😂😂😂

[@tedcrilly46]

During Brexit debate: Common defense policy exists. Prior to Brexit debate: Common defense policy exists. After Brexit debate: Common defense policy exists. Brexiters: SEE! Told ya so.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

Funny how the EU has near exact same territory has Germany had in 1943 + They are sending tanks against the russian's .... again. And ruled by a NON ELECTED gov in Brussel. Incredible how nobody makes the parallels and wake the f up. History truly repeat itself over and over again faking being something different. Different names as cover up, but same actions, same intentions.

[@ettoreatalan8303]

Putin: It's good to see the Brexiteers playing divide and conquer when it comes to European defense capabilities. At least I can still rely on the Brexiteers. 😂😂😂

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

@@ettoreatalan8303 Well they never left and applied the Brexit actually, the English elites decided to behave as if the vote never happened.

[@AlvarazCMSB]

Woulda been nice if the EU did this on their own instead of needing Trump to threaten them.

[@bigdoghenry1441]

Trump : hey, you need to start paying your responsibilities like we all agreed to! Europe : no Trump: fine then we won’t protect you. Europe : we will show that evil orange man quickly increase the military budget!

[@tedcrilly46]

EU: Repeatedly collectively spends 3x Russias defense spend. Has 1.4m active personnel. Over 3 million reservists. Conscription in many countries. Is nuclear armed. Agreed common defense policy. Joint procurement program. Air and sea supremacy. Control of Aegean, Mediterranean, Baltic seas. 300 million population advantage. 10x Russias economy. Consistently beats Russia in practically every stat. Russia: How do I get past Avdiivka. Americans: We're protecting you.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

LOL loved it ♥ Funny how the EU has near exact same territory has Germany had in 1943 + They are sending tanks against the russian's .... again. And ruled by a NON ELECTED gov in Brussel. Hummmmmm...... Incredible how nobody makes the parallels and wake the f up. History truly repeat itself over and over again faking being something different. Different names as cover up, but same actions, same intentions.

[@johnnykotletti4614]

I have the feeling you know as much about this as Trump does.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

@@johnnykotletti4614 Stop the compliments, being compared with Trump, is like being compared with the person you admire the most. You're way to kind for your good.

[@johnnykotletti4614]

@@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2 You hopefully realise that i wasn't talking to you ? Anyway, i also can see much of Trump in you.

[@xinceras-6542]

Anyone else remember back when TLDR promised that there would never be an EU army and claimed that anyone who said otherwise was a Nazi?

[@jaxtruths6074]

As an American, I hope this happens. Europe can build their own military capabilities and hopefully there won’t be a need for American military bases across Europe.

[@hackman669]

There will be Euro bases instead. 😊

[@DeadNoob451]

There is no way the americans are giving up their bases. Hell will sooner freeze over than those places shutting down. Also there is no need to have them in Syria either, but for some reason that does not seem to matter.

[@mariosathens1]

It is about time.. We in Europe lived for years in our pink cloud believing that wars are over, that the Americans will protect us in a time of need, that all security problems can be solved through dialogue etc etc A European Army for the protection of the EU member states is a MUST,

[@ExarchGaming]

i'm sorry for our unreliability. It concerns a lot of us here in the states too.

[@user-up3ux9jx7c]

@@ExarchGamingWhat about Europes unreliability for decades? We should be partners but right now it is all one sided so don’t apologize for me and millions of others who have had enough of protecting the world when most don’t want us or feel entitled to our taxpayer money for their own benefit.

[@gfys756]

​@@user-up3ux9jx7cExactly. Europeans have always hated Americans because Americans aren't "white enough", anyway...

[@C1K450]

Europeans themselves don’t even enlist for their own army. They are busy sucking up your welfare/social programs. How can you have an army in the first place?

[@DanJuega]

@@user-up3ux9jx7cLmao the US government wasn’t doing it out of the kindness of their hearts

[@connor5214]

Remember when people laughed at Nigel’s Farage claim of an European army? Well they aren’t laughing now

[@mrsentencename7334]

But thought it was just about trade?!?! 😮

[@TommyTipex]

But the 2016 EU army was a dangerous conspiracy theory and misinformation, the 2024 EU army is a good thing! It's amazing how that happens so often isn't it.

[@henrybn14ar]

The threats to Europe come from within.

[@georgedevries3992]

Like the 5 million Turks in Germany?

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@georgedevries3992 Absolutely

[@gtr5860]

jihadist

[@Chrysobubulle]

An army led by who ? Technocrats in Bruxelles that no one elected ?

[@aliceg6745]

France for sure. Or maybe Germany but that seems less certain to me.

[@Chrysobubulle]

@@aliceg6745 does France control the european bureaucracy right now ? Why would France control the European Army ? And why would the other members accept that ? It makes no sense

[@aliceg6745]

@@Chrysobubulle "Why would France control the European Army" ? Because it is the most powerful and strongest army in the EU and the only army with the nuclear power. It is a fact. So it seems logical to me that it is France which leads this army. If there is an economic union, it would seem logical to me that Germany would lead it, for example. For what ? Because Germany is the largest economy in the EU. It's all a question of logic.

[@chrisa.4022]

rusky have no voide in this topic!

[@wewuzkangz2505]

@@aliceg6745 Yeah, count me out. I'd rather join Russia, at least they don't want to flood my nation with millions of non-whites and call it progress.

[@YtubeUserr]

It should have been a thing already. Otherwise the EU is caught between a rock (USA) and a hard place (Russia).

[@hackman669]

Ether form a federation a keep your culture and lands. Or start speaking Russian

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

@@hackman669 Russia don't care about Europe, they have more land they can dream of, there is no natural ressources in Europe, and the economy and population values and institutions are very sick. Why add and cancerous part to your healthy body? Funny how the EU has near exact same territory has Germany had in 1943 + They are sending tanks against the russian's .... again. And ruled by a NON ELECTED gov in Brussel. Incredible how nobody makes the parallels and wake the f up. History truly repeat itself over and over again faking being something different. Different names as cover up, but same actions, same intentions.

[@caseclosed9342]

So they need a Grand Army of the Republic to fight Count Putin? Sounds like a great idea… 😂😂😂

[@rkramer5629]

Trump- *talks shit about European NATO members not spending enough on defense* Those members- “No! We can’t trust Trump! We better spend more on defense!” Is this like some crazy mom level reverse psychology….? 😂

[@fixpontt]

no, what Trump really means is that Europe should spend money on american weapons not just spend more in general, while the debate right now in Europe is that we spend more money but not buying american stuff but strengthening our own arms production in the long run, there is a huge difference between those two view Trump's biggest problem is that Europe's foreign trade with the US right now heavily favours Europe and he wanted some of those money pour back to the US through defense spending maknig US trade deficit a bit more equal especially towards Germany im flabbergasted how people like you have a surface level understanding and cannot connect basic dots Trump biggest nightmare is that Europe's decision that in the future the continent produce their own weapons systems (and a full scale of it) and never buys anything from the US like it is happening now

[@user-up3ux9jx7c]

@@fixponttGo ahead and buy Russian or Chinese weapons, just take care of your own security needs; just buy a lot to make up for all the ones that fail.

[@johnnykotletti4614]

@@user-up3ux9jx7c I have the feeling his comment went straight over your head.

[@robertsanders7060]

A European army will be hindered by 1) French illusions of grandeur 2) Germany will soon stop listening to neighbors and start ordering them around 3) Problematic behavior of East European nations 4) British isolationist tendencies.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

As an "East European" nation, have fun with raising your kids when Abdul and Mohhamed are around. So many stories...

[@johnm2714]

The Brits won't be much of a problem. They probably won't be involved. 😅

[@JB-lovin]

Suddenly, Europe is willing to invest in its own defense. Who knew it only required the credible US threat to walk away.

[@hackman669]

If Trump win US will become a fascist state. Save yourself and us.

[@notusneo]

EU becoming a federation is because of Putin and his 5D chess move lmao

[@Judge_Magister]

EUSSR was planned long before you were even born. Good luck serving your tyrannical corrupt communist overlords.

[@Tespri]

It actually is... If his goal is to destroy democracy. There is no better way than centralize EU into federation.

[@combatepistemologist8382]

You go right ahead and think that.

[@notusneo]

@@combatepistemologist8382 i mean the chance are almost zero but it would be really funny if they really do that, and do you think Putin decision to outright invading Ukraine is a wise one?

[@DeadNoob451]

It is, since it would collapse just like the soviet union did and for the same reasons.

[@konstantinosskarmoutsos5935]

In the economic part, wouldn't a united system defense spending be cheaper?

[@user-ku8qs3qj3k]

You also missed out that Ireland and Austria are committed to neutrality.

[@AlanD-xn2ql]

A few years ago this idea was called a dangerous conspiracy theory...

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

That moment when you realize everyone in the comment section is insane... No one is batting an eye how weird this is.

[@joschmo4497]

Everything is a conspiracy theory until you wait long enough for it to be true.

[@CalIrons-wr2xy]

A single European Military would effectively end National sovereignty of independent nations. Or at minimum, pose a large threat to such sovereignty. Very concerning for all wishing for the preservation of national cultures & interests

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

WEF: "Build me an army worthy of Davos"

[@zagreus5773]

Now I am imagining a bunch of rich suit wearers in tanks and fighter jets...

[@shoppinmadnesz22]

*As an American, I'm glad for EU but also your taxes are going to go through the roof. Good luck!*

[@evivox]

Unpopular opinion: I hope for Trump to win, so Europe is forced to unite

[@villagepatrick6376]

I’m probably going to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I feel like this is the endgoal for the US. A strong EU with its own army aligned with the US beats a weak EU that needs the US to defend itself.

[@Wendeta-hq2cp]

I mean he would actually disunite us thankfully. Prepare for Exits galore 2016 style. Freedom to the people here on the continent!

[@weeguy52]

He's right, but it's his delivery that's all wrong, but he's going to backstab ukraine if he wins since it doesn't affect him,only financially, and trump loves money.

[@user-up3ux9jx7c]

As a U.S. citizen I want to say with the exception of Great Britain no other NATO member has been a reliable partner for us for many years. Dithering, arguing, lack of financial and military support has been the only contribution. When we do have a “joint force” operation it is in name only but we know who is doing the most sacrificing. Many of our citizens have been paying heavy taxes to protect you when you don’t want to protect yourself. Don’t give me the BS that the US is not a reliable partner, we have had it with you pumping billions into free healthcare etc while we pay for your security. Worse, then you cast dispersions on us for not having free healthcare for our own citizens (and weeks of time off); as if you are paragons of virtue and good stewards of your finances. Pay for your own defense and see how quickly those benefits last. I’m all for pulling all our troops out of Europe and beyond and use our taxpayer money for domestic issues and paying off debt. How would you like to pay taxes year after year for our protection and not only receive no thanks but scorn? That’s what I thought.

[@AaronOkeanos]

You mean no idiot was willing to join in Iraq 2? Ask the Brits about this war. They are really unhappy about it.

[@grecianandy]

Remember when the remain parties were constantly stating this wouldn't happen? 🤔

[@TommyTipex]

Like most conspiracy theories it only takes a few years to become not only true but a good thing! Thank god we left.

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

@@TommyTipex "thank god we left" meanwhile the UK is coming apart at the seems, is poorer, and will likely balkanize in our lifetimes. And your still taking in immigrants, and will still go to America or the mainland for your defense xp. Brexit did literally nothing good for you, "thank god".

[@TommyTipex]

@@unyieldingsarcasm2505 Our ruling class had to punish the plebs for daring to defy them of course ergo the immigration and tanked economy. Dream on about 'balkanisation' as well, scotland don't have the bollocks to leave and everyone else is happy to be in the UK. As for defence I'm not massively worried about Russia's attack from St. Petersburg sailing past 10+ countries to strike or invade us lmao. What we did get out of it, is staying a sovereign nation, not a province of the EU run by people no one voted for, we'll see how long you can say the same.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

Funny how the EU has near exact same territory has Germany had in 1943 + They are sending tanks against the russian's .... again. And ruled by a NON ELECTED gov in Brussel. Incredible how nobody makes the parallels and wake the f up. History truly repeat itself over and over again faking being something different. Different names as cover up, but same actions, same intentions.

[@Purple_flower09]

​@@unyieldingsarcasm2505 support for independence in Scotland is unchanged by Brexit. I know, I'm Scottish.

[@kalibo-8]

An EU army would most likely be used against their own citizens rather than imaginary enemy. That would crush dissent & protests & allow the unelected EU Govt to rule unhindered.

[@Froge0]

I'm so glad for Brexit, being forced into a European army sounds outright dystopian.

[@rod9829]

But NATO isn’t? 🤔

[@Nils.Minimalist]

Go count your roubles, Sergei.

[@venetoaward]

You probably don't realize how many wars we fought between ourselves. The EU, besides needing strong reforms, has been an absolute blessing for the peaceful life we enjoyed since after WW2

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

​@@Nils.Minimalistwhy do you spam?

[@maxsnel5705]

I still hope my country will leave the EU like you guys one day

[@hp8825]

I belive a european army is a really good thing because of a few main reasons: 1. We work toghter economicly in the EU market, we apear towards other contries as EU and makes contracts with them, beside what is on paper we don't have a german french border anymore, we just have an EU external border all in all we have the same intrests. It makes absolute sense to defend this intersts by a single uniformly army. 2. A lot of contries waste a lot of mony at the moment to develope new military equipment like 6th generation fighter jets. It would make a lot of sense if the EU would develope one jet with joined know how and joined military budget and not every country by it's own. That's a lot of wasted money especcially if they at the end of the day defend all the same border and the same intrests. 3. A EU military would be much easier to command than 27 single armys. Also is it much easier to work togeter if you rely on the same equipment than having 27 diffrent kinds of for example tanks. 4. If I look at europe in the past there was allways a war in reach. I love the EU just beause it contibutes a lot to the fact we now fight in the EU parlament with arguments but not with arms on the battlefield. (As long as we keep talking to each other as difficult it may be sometimes, we don't fight each other). But the best way to be shure that we don't fight each other is if we don't have an an army. Germany can't start a WWIII (and I'm saying this as a german) and invades poland again if it don't have the army to do so. We can't fight each other if we just have one single EU army. And when it comes to NATO: I don't see why this is a problem at all. If the eu members are NATO members, why can't be a union of them be a NATO member to. I think this would even be a benefit for NATO over all if we manage to create a EU army properly, just because of my second point of less diverse equipment and organized struktures in NATO. So as long as we don't want to start war between EU countries again, I think an EU army is the best thing we can do.

[@Lysandra-8]

Absolutely YES!👍

[@kordellswoffer1520]

Utter drivel.

[@hp8825]

@@kordellswoffer1520 Where are your arguments?

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

"A EU military would be much easier to command than 27 single armys." Yeah, it could probably be commanded by a group of unelected globalists who meet in Davos XD

[@arielbatista7ify]

EU should stop depending on what USA decide to do. EU needs its own army to protect its borders

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

And the World Economic Forum to control it. Can't leave it the hand of peasants, can we? We need brave, young leaders for ze new world...

[@manwiththeredface7821]

An army with 20+ languages. What could possibly go wrong?

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

They would obviously use English as a lingua franca, because everybody already learns it in school thanks to American hegemony. This isn't an issue.

[@NemeczeK101]

They should speak Hyperborean

[@shroomyesc]

Here's the thing. Am I super comfortable with the idea with a more federal EU with an EU army? No. Do you know what I'm way less comfortable with? US military bases and forces on European soil. Especially with how unstable the US proves itself to be yet again with constant swings in foreign policy. I would rather ally with my fellow European nations than with Americans or the Chinese.

[@kyledabearsfan]

You say unstable, but nothing has changed. We just have loud news. It's odd that Europe has trusted America to fund its defense for decades but now that Trump might come back everyone is freaked out. Yet he didn't do anything the first time 😂

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

As a memeber of ze WEF (world economic forum), I am appaled you do not have ze trust in our brave new global leaders.

[@poppyrider5541]

'an EU army is a conspiracy theory' - Nick Clegg 2016 during a Brexit debate.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

That's because it _was_ a baseless conspiracy theory back then. Nobody at the time was considering any such thing. They're considering it _now_ because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Farage, who was quite cushy with the Russian right, certainly didn't see that one coming.

[@vulgar_scabby_beaver]

and what happened in ukraine recently?

[@poppyrider5541]

@@vulgar_scabby_beaver This isn't a 'gotta'. Do you really think Russia was just forgotten about until 2022? What happened in Ukraine in 2014? Two years both these debates. If you think Russia would attack a NATO country you have fallen for fearmongering.

[@vulgar_scabby_beaver]

@@poppyrider5541 oh I'm not afraid, I just believe in peace through superior fire power. The US has shown itself to be a schizophrenic and unreliable partner so it is time for the EU(minus the UK which decided "they need us more than we need them") to build a common defence framework in the event that NATO is rendered obsolete by Agent Orange.

[@NemeczeK101]

@@vulgar_scabby_beaverRight, because you think the EU is capable of defending itself?

[@d-logan5280]

Wasn't this written off as a conspiracy theory not too long ago?

[@yojasmagic]

Sure was. During the Brexit campaign, I believe.

[@Blackhawk19892]

It was never going to happen because Britain would always veto it.

[@Laerei]

Conspiracy theory? What. Even in this video it shows that the idea is already decades old and work has already been done before. It's not a conspiracy when Russia proves that it's willing to attack an european country (Ukraine) for no good reason and makes everyone in Europe feel unsafe. There's only one response and that's to build an army that can defend whole of Europe from Russia in particular. If you can defend against Russia, you can defend against anyone. Safety of whole Europe is at stake here.

[@ashardalondragnipurake]

like many things that happened

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

nato already exist, so it is not that far off.

[@themarcineuu1336]

The army is an ultimate tool of a country to assert its independence and protect its rights. I worry whether an EU army would protect the interests of all of its members or only the strongest ones.

[@LevisH21]

this supposed army needs an army leader from Eastern Europe like Poland or Romania. not some bastard from Western Europe like tht useless idiot from Norway, leader of NATO. or the leader of EU, that woman never had any experience with the German army, yet she became the defense minister for Merkel for few years. also, never mind the fact she is extremely corrupt with scandals surrounding her education.

[@ArchesBro]

*cough french colonies in Africa"

[@johndoe2-ns6tf]

remember, remember, the prague spring.

[@NoidoDev]

That's why we need good institutions, but this requires a long time of debate involving the population. Also, it shouldn't be about replacing national military for defending it's territory, but only the intervention forces for outside of it.

[@edwxx20001]

@@NoidoDev if its about external intervention, then the French will have leadership as they are the only ones conducting large scale overseas operations at the moment. they have the skills and equipment to do it. Also, the only time Europe starts talking about the EUA is when they are worried about nato breaking up which IS about defending its territory, so the EUA in absence of America would have to be NATO without several major NATO members. US, Canada, UK, Norway and Turkey. Ive likely forgotten some others that are in nato but are not EU members.

[@comedyriff5231]

I´m tired of Russia´s threaths from the East and MAGA´s blackmail from the West. It´s time for the EU to become a strong independent military force, and it needs to happen extremely fast.

[@DarkZerol]

The EU should establish the EF (European Federation) just like in Tom Clancy's EndWar thus forming it's own military, economy and political power easily capable in surpassing even the MAGA US and Russia.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@DarkZerol We in ze WEF (world economic forum) would like to help you formulate your idea. You sound like a brave new leader. Europe needs people like you, freund. We need you.

[@C1K450]

So what happens to military spending on the national and NATO level if we are going to spend on the EU military? Money doesn’t come out of thin air! The GDP for welfare and social programs will be slashed and reallocated accordingly, unless you withdraw NATO.

[@NobodyAnywhere-xi9dz]

An EU Army would not change NATO spending, it would just make spending here more efficiently as the joint procurement and development makes weapons cheaper. We could buy more stuff with the same money we spend due to the NATO framework on ourselves, of course the target would be for Europe to spend 2%, not single nations anymore. Would enhance NATO, make arms more cheaper and more effective

[@johnnykotletti4614]

You should have a look at what the NATO rly is. There is no military spending on NATO level.

[@albertobenevenuto77]

​@@johnnykotletti4614Sure there are a lot of NATO expenses and Europe pay around 84% of them. Do you think that training, exercises, logistics and uperr management are for free?

[@albertobenevenuto77]

Actually The way I see it NATO is almost the European Army, it just a matter of politely ask the US, Turkey and Hungary to leave. If they have different interests, why should Europe care with them? Remember, the only country that claim the article 5 was the US after 9/11, and all members joint them in the war.

[@billotto602]

Maybe i just don't understand "European thinking", but the EU seems to steal the very qualities that makes each country "unique" & thus makes a bland mush of the whole continent. In my limited experience traveling in Europe, it's those differences between each nation that made each one special. I loved the diversity. But to glob y'all together, instead of different & distinct countries, you get a mush. No real difference between each one. I think you'd be very sorry if you let this happen to your countries. There's so much history there. Protect it !

[@lacommission.-sitcom696]

Oh wise man, you're writing with a computer made in China on the American KZbin. Now who're you calling the bland mush?

[@starventure]

1. The EU will be paying the bills. Someone HAS to pay. Someone HAS to perform the service. Where will the money come from? 2. No matter what happens to the US in the years to come, a US out of NATO and decoupled from the middle east militarily as well as decoupled economically from China, would be a major hazard for Europe.

[@johnmcternan4157]

Peace would reign if the USA pissed off, they've never given it a try.

[@joeyonikas5366]

A huge unelected bureaucracy in charge of just about everything. Don’t see any problems? Keep it local/national.

[@timha4102]

BS. You‘re always stronger together than alone. The EU is a major player in the world because not every single country does its own little politics.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@@timha4102 "You‘re always stronger together than alone." - Yeah, that's the whole point of politcal corruption.

[@timha4102]

@@Klongu_Da_Bongu So following your logic there would be less corruption in non EU countries like, for example, Albania or Venezuela.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

@102Pure "Whataboutism" hahaha. Good to know I won if you have to invent my arguement for me, so you can defeat it easier.

[@timha4102]

@@Klongu_Da_Bongu You might win if you explain how corruption in the EU would be different from corruption in non EU countries.

[@veljkoivetic1903]

EU army 😂😂😂 who believe in this

[@raulpetrascu2696]

German army 😂 Italian nation army😂 united Anglia-Wessex-Northumbria army 😂😂 who believe in this -you, in the middle ages

[@TommyTipex]

People that want to use it against member states that don't follow the brussels mandates.

[@scorpiovenator_4736]

They are already all in Nato

[@WolfeRavenwood]

Its tragic comical how people seriously discussing about a defense line to the east while we get overrun from africa and the middle east.

[@fuseblower8128]

Not gonna happen. No way the Dutch army will rely on the French air force since Srebrenica. In a subsequent mission in Africa it was demanded Dutch troops would be protected by their own air force. On the other hand : the Dutch and German army work together quite nicely, even having a mixed army corps. I feel this is the best way : cooperation between EU countries which trust each other, speak each others language and have each others backs.

[@ArchesBro]

The fictional German army. Ok dude

[@davideghirelli5856]

As an italian I am with this, time to stand as one and fight for our interests, time for Europe to become what it is predestined to be: a superpower

[@Puntonghua]

An EU army is long overdue

[@ian2372]

What could possibly go wrong with a multinational army that is accountable to no one...

[@jerrymiller9039]

As a combat veteran I can tell you that you need a centralized chain of command. When your sons and friends and neighbors start coming home in body body bags saying that some organization outside your country demands it and your country can not refuse gets old real quick. If every member has the option of just saying no or saying our people will only take the safer missions someone else has to pull more than their weight. Who in the EU is willing to pull more than their weight when their citizens are dying?

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

But the EU isn't "some organization outside my country", it's an organization that my country is a _part_ of.

[@jerrymiller9039]

It is ruled outside of your country and has made it clear that it is not devoted to the citizens of your country. I am a combat veteran and talking about defense in peacetime is not the same as actually being in a life and death struggle. @@HeadsFullOfEyeballs

[@aliancemd]

​@@jerrymiller9039 "It is ruled outside of your country" that is false, we all vote for the ideas and politicians we want in power, to represent us in EU. You are just regurgitating England's far-right vomit/propaganda.

[@jerrymiller9039]

Yes it is ruled outside your country. For example if war breaks out and your citizens do not like their sons and friends coming home in body bags that is too bad, you can not over rule the EU. Also no you do not vote for EU politicians. You vote for political parties and then they can do whatever they want behind closed doors. For example look at Vanderlyn the leader of the EU. When they held the vote she was not even mentioned as a possible candidate. Then after all voting was done, Merkel anounced that all named candidates were being thrown out as possibilities. Then they held a closed door meeting long after the election and announced Ursela as the winner when she was not even mentioned as a possibility That is not what democracy looks like. @@aliancemd

[@srdxxx]

@@aliancemd Then are you are willing to serve and fight and die in an EU army for the EU?

[@theantagonist2147]

Another win for Brexit... remember when we were promised there was no chance of this happening?

[@TommyTipex]

Oh I do haha, us silly brexiteers and our wild conspiracy theories eh

[@theantagonist2147]

@TommyTipex Most of the people that comment on this channel will have conveniently forgotten that though I assure you

[@lacommission.-sitcom696]

"When the facts change, I change my mind!" Something brexiters are incapable of even in the face of them destroying the UK. Then again, their leaders where always in biz with Putin!

[@user-kq5ke5yb6k]

France ran out of ammo just in the Libyan operation.

[@CleverContrarian]

Really?

[@grabedigger]

LOL sure it did bot.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

@@grabediggerIt's officially recognized by the Elise (French Gov) as a fact. Was in the papers back then, where you sleeping under a rock of you have a 5 second memory span.

[@dariusonly1384]

Oh we have one of these, it’s called NATO..

[@Purple_flower09]

NATO includes the UK though, and the EU hates the UK.

[@albertobenevenuto77]

The problem with NATO is that all members including US, Turkey and Hungry have to accept the decisions. Guess what, they don't have the same interests than Europe.

[@petemartin_net]

I'm interested in what the financial benefits could be. Would an EU army result in more budgetary efficiency so each nationstate could make more money available in health and education? Could it still meet defence/GDP% spending targets?

[@inbb510]

The answer is No. Why do you think many Western European countries spend below 2% on defence (and Ireland only 0.2%).

[@petemartin_net]

@@inbb510 But would a Euro-wide 2% average out?

[@inbb510]

@@petemartin_net , no it is clearly insufficient because that assumes that individual countries would be willing to put their soldiers or their military equipment into some other country that they aren't loyal too. This isn't the US where much of their allyship is with the nation and not individual states. This is Europe where people tend to be much more loyal to their nation than Brussels. Furthermore, there are countries like Ireland and Austria which guard their neutrality like gold. And one may say Ireland doesn't matter due to the population but that is assuming that Russian ships haven't got close to the Irish shores before (which they have). And Ireland is a huge weak point for Europe as 90% of Internet traffic goes under cables of the Atlantic Sea and past Ireland. Essentially, Ireland at the moment is giving Russia a free pass to cut the cables at anytime and given much of Ireland's economy is service based, it will have a huge effect on their economy and by extension Europe's. Ireland has no army nor maritime security force so it would need to effectively spend more than 2% to finance their army from scratch. This would most definitely eat into much of their sovereign wealth fund and make cuts elsewhere like welfare spending.

[@NoidoDev]

The real benefit would be to make good institutions around it, looking out for European interests while be taken seriously and having the respect of the population. Take a guess, how good EU politician are in doing this. Part of the benefit would be to be more independent from the US, and this might be more of a mental thing.

[@Maceman1990]

​@@inbb510Ireland and Luxembourg are 2 examples of why a simple 2% of GDP rule does not work. Both countries have massive bloated GDP figures. In Luxembourg it is because of the massive inflow of workers from adjacent countries, and Ireland is a bank/tax-evading haven. Their spending compared to 'real GDP' is probably still too low, but there is a huge Asterix.

[@LevisH21]

an EU army with a clown leader from Western Europe in charge will be stupid. a Polish or Romanian general should be in charge of that army organization.

[@Arleq1]

what is the logic behind this?

[@KingOfParrots]

Lol

[@hk4lyfe59]

Sad that people don't understand how dangerous an EU army would be.

[@user-ge5ce2rr6p]

A military that isn’t dangerous is a weak one

[@hk4lyfe59]

@@user-ge5ce2rr6p The most powerful militaries in Europe have almost always meant oppression for others. This one will be the worst of them all, and its sad Europeans can't see how harmful their history has been to the rest of the world.

[@errormatrix4159]

@@hk4lyfe59 "its sad Europeans can't see how harmful their history has been to the rest of the world" We had great teachers from other parts of the world, like the Persians, Carthagianians, Huns, Mongols, Caliphate, Moors and Ottomans. "Might makes right" was not only in Europe, but in the rest of the world, europeans just became better playing that game, and for this became the center of the world, if today isn´t so much "Might makes Right"it is because of post WW2 liberal ""West"",and international organizations mostly derived from the ""West"".

[@joshuachapman247]

Europe can't even arm itself....until it can do that, no go. 5 - 10 years off.

[@TheRockkickass]

They should do this. I’m sick of my tax dollars going to defend other countries. It’s not the US job to defend Europe. The US should fully pull out and let the Europeans fully defend themselves.

[@fredo1070]

So Nigel Farage's warnings were correct.

[@phil2544]

He didn't predict Russia invading Ukraine though. He also said years ago that the EU would fall apart.

[@fredo1070]

@@phil2544 Without Russian gas it will. Germany is in recession, deindustrialising and it is Germany that funds the EU.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

Nah. It was a baseless conspiracy theory back then. Nobody at the time was considering any such thing. They're considering it _now_ because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Farage, who was quite cushy with the Russian right, certainly didn't see that one coming.

[@georgebethanis3188]

YES

[@Lysandra-8]

And dreams can come true, if there's a will

[@yukitakaoni007]

No need more housing, no need any farmers, no need happy people. Just need more army. Such is the way of politician.

[@ettoreatalan8303]

Houses, farmers and happy people are in danger when a belligerent aggressor threatens to attack.

[@rphb5870]

that sounds utterly horrifying (for the people of Europe, not for Russia) But a hyperinflation of the Euro + a severe depression + divergent views of how to deal with the new victorious Russia, will put a dent in that plan. And remember, an EU army would only have one purpose, to oppress the people of Europe

[@user-ge5ce2rr6p]

Would you rather an Army led by a European government or an army led by an American government

[@rphb5870]

@@user-ge5ce2rr6p that is like asking if I would rather die of syphilis or tuberculosis

[@MisterKen81]

Ireland needs to leave the EU

[@TommyTipex]

They'd probably just ignore your referendum like the last two times.

[@user-ku8qs3qj3k]

There is something chilling about hearing some one argue for a european empire in a german accent

[@hackman669]

Not German, French. 😊

[@nathanspreitzer6738]

The EU becomes more authoritarian, very concerning

[@josephcarland]

The core of this issue. Started at the start of the 90's. When interest went from been greater than inflation to been below inflation. Meaning keeping your money in a bank will loose value. So big money moved in to real estate.

[@FatBoy42069]

As an American. After the idiotic statements macron made the other day. Please do I don’t want to die for Europe or fund your defense anymore. When only 8 member states meet a pitiful 2% spending goal (prior to the Russian Ukraine war it was only five nations) I’m tired of hearing you guys talk crap then begging us to defend you. Dont shake my hand while you’re pissing on my leg.

[@user-up3ux9jx7c]

Perfectly stated which is what they are doing to US citizens.

[@FatBoy42069]

@@user-up3ux9jx7c half the replies I’ve gotten in here are just Europeans trying to act superior and self inflated. Like if you really don’t want Americans to turn against nato change your demeanor cause a lot of us are tired of a parasitic relationship where we don’t gain from it and get verbally accosted by spoiled children.

[@TommyTipex]

What do you mean? The French lads just felt like having a little global nuclear conflict, they thought for sure your boys were up for it after the amount of time spent fucking about in the buffer zone countries playing politics!

[@jamiegrant5955]

What an incredibly dim and myopic individual... the EU spent €260B last year on defence: $460B when adjusted for PPP - the issue is not the budget. Rather redundancy in capabilities and Europe's inability to take advantage of economies of scale are the problems. These issues can be resolved by a unified European defence architecture - achieving this has been the goal of the EU for nearly two decades . European strategic autonomy would undermine American influence in Europe. Consequently, your nation has spent significant resources and soft power to ensure that this would not occur; strong-arming European nations into buying American produced arms. As such, your last sentence is true: America certainly is pissing on Europe's legs. Time to quit swallowing US propaganda.

[@FatBoy42069]

@@jamiegrant5955 hahahaha dude when half your members don’t even put 2% of their gdp to their current obligations how do you think that will go when the EU has a military? Your continent can’t even unify now. The US spends around $805 billion compared to Europes actual input of $3.5 billion in 2023 meaning we spend almost quadruple what the does on our nato obligations coming in right behind Poland who spends nearly 4% of its gdp, we come in second at 3.7% of our gdp. While only 8 other members meet these obligations. Oh and one of those European powers is Great Britain last time I checked they’re out of the EU. As much as I hate them they’re actually useful in the alliance. So without us and Great Britain have fun with that. You’ll be swallowed by in fighting and the egos of other European nations like France or Germany. And the last time one of those nations had that much power it went pretty badly.