Why Ancient Jedi Tortured Their Padawans - Star Wars Explained

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[e-mail] Donate to Help Improve Frequency and Quality of Content: / user The ancient Jedi were not always the just peacekeepers they are portrayed as during the Star Wars films. There are points in the history of the Jedi where they actually tortured their students as a right of passage.
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[@katiepersons6575]

Yoda's council did a lot of evil shit. They sanctioned assassination by dispatching Voss and Ventress on a mission to assassinate dooku. Assassination is not the Jedi way. The council also extradited and expelled Ahsoka without a fair Jedi trial just for the sake of improving public opinion of the order. Even when it was clear she was innocent, Jedi like Mace instead of recognizing the mistake instead doubled down and chalked up the whole ordeal to "The will of the force".

[@SpecForceMarine]

Well, not in Legends, In Legends they wanted him alive, because they knew that killing him would make him rather a martyr in the eyes of his follewers and those who feel weary of the jedi and woud damage their reputation even more and make them look like the biggest hypocrites in the galaxy.

[@maniacalmattmedia1025]

Yeah. Sure. “The Will of the Force” is responsible for the Council’s stupidity. Even my 12 year old self didn’t buy that bs.

[@SliptOnAChip]

Friend: 'I want to be a Jedi!' Me: 'Dude, you don't. Just don't question it.'

[@EvelynNdenial]

a little torture to be a spacewizard? sign me up. especially since jedi have abilities to resist/ignore pain

[@pamelabledsoe4016]

SliptOnAChip I would rather be a sith it is easier

[@spectral5939]

going though a lot of pain, Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?

[@misterkirikou]

Just be a force user , go your way but don't sign up for that 😂

[@ActionBastard666]

I think one of the darkest acts the jedi took was in the KOTOR era when a group of them led by Lucien Draay had a vision that the padawans were going to turn to the dark side and the masters took it upon themselves to kill their padawan. great series!

[@mlgsty8880]

I agree that the jedi covenant commmited the darkest acts as jedi

[@jumaanecabrera8091]

The Jedi would never do that!

[@adventuremannb22]

Jumaane Sablan Cabrera but they did, at least in legends

[@jonathonpolk3592]

exactly what I was going to say. the Jedi Covenant is a prime example of how good intentions, when taken to an extreme, can lead to vile results. pursuing a goal at any cost is likely to turn heroes into monsters. they massacred their padawans because they misinterpreted a vague prophecy, failing to see that they actually caused the prophecy to come to pass. good thing Zayne got away; otherwise, the Covenant would have continued committing travesties without even realizing that they were worse than the Sith.

[@jaimegutierrezjag78]

Luke of the Cave yeah that was he did a video on it interesting

[@jonathanle2787]

what if Anakin was never discovered by the Jedi or the Sith? what if Qui-Gon, Kenobi, and Padme made it off Naboo without needing to stop on Tatooine? how different would the Stars Wars lore be without the Skywalkers? I can see Qui-Gon still dying, Dooku's turn to Tyrannus, and the clone wars still happening but with Dooku now being Sidious's actual apprentice as opposed to a placeholder to be discarded later. but who would take place as Obi-Wan's apprentice?

[@mr.tophatturtle2848]

Jonathan Le I think the sand memes wouldn't be as prevalent or a thing at all.

[@ThieftheFlygon]

Palpatine would have been killed by Mace Windu. That's one big thing that would have happened. Edit: I at least think that would happen.

[@mandalorebean2203]

Thieving Flygon Well Skywalker was the one who told Windu about Palpatine. So with no Anakin he have been able to confront him.

[@lionmountain804]

Mr.TopHat Turtle Sand memes aren't funny at all. Anakin isn't scared of sand btw...

[@MrDeflador]

Jar Jar would be dead like most Gungan because the battledroids were not shut off.

[@MikefromTexas1]

Jedi Master: "Now time… for the Trial of Flesh!" Me: "Ooo, that sounds damn good. Had my eyes Master Secura for a while now…" Jedi Master: "This will be a test of *pain!"* Me: "Well fuck."

[@nicholastrombone9899]

LOL

[@yellowdevil9650]

Master Secura, mmm..

[@archangel5526]

I mean, nothing will ever top the Jedi Covenants actions. Giving into fear AND murdering the innocent, smh....

[@baz5042]

So it's like when an intelligent agency train there candidates to withstand torture?

[@aviantheassassin9103]

In a way, yes

[@andrewklingaman871]

Why didn't R2D2 stay with anakin after the battle of mustafar?

[@pout6038]

kenobi stole him.

[@Darth12000]

Darth Vader said it himself, the Jedi view everything as shades of grey, nevery as black and white. that can be a virtue and a strength, but if it goes too far, this it was happens...

[@superdoctor14]

Ooohhhh darkest thing the jedi ever did, well, I think that would be in the very early days of the order duering the time of the first great schism where jedi Xendor broke with the jedi order to form an acadamy based around the darker aspects of the force, and they called themselves the Legions of Lettow. Now what happend next as I understand it is that tese dark acolytes did not initiate the conflict. But rather the jedi in fear of them struck first. Again before anyone from the legions did anything wrong other than explore other avenues of the force Xendor even attempted to avoid mass blood shed, by attacking Ossus directly to keep the conflict quick and confined, because he did not want this war at all. From what I gather he was a very pleasant individual who just wanted to study all he could not rule anything. I think that this would make an excellent video as once again it proves that everything is the jedis fault wouldn't you say?

[@nathanfarwell8653]

The trial of flesh sounds kinda dirty before definition

[@SchwayGoose]

So the Jedi kidnapped children and tortured them? Jeez, Palpatine did the right thing when he executed Order 66

[@jerimiahshekelstein583]

Garry Combine You have that in reverse the jedi have commited genocide of the Sith for ages thes Sith just sunk to their level

[@darthvader566]

Sunglass Kirby agreed

[@quentinmacleod9748]

From one perception, I agree. But from a bigger picture, no. If the Jedi learned from their errors and abandoned certain practices (like tourchuring their padawans) then Order 66 was not justifiable and was out of hatred for the Jedi.

[@Blazeblitz9000]

Sunglass Kirby #PalpatineDidNothingWrong

[@emperorpalpatine7454]

cheers fam, it was so jokes :D

[@devilhancore]

The Darkest Act the Jedi performed was clearly attempting to assassinate Supreme Chancellor Palpatine.

[@MushroomGuy12]

Don't you mean attempting to assassinate the Senate?

[@mandickthetittysmithy5117]

No the Jedi covenants action were way darker they murdered their padawans because of a vague prophecy.

[@sithpurebloodqueen4812]

Darth Sidious don't worry my Emperor The Jedi are being eliminated.

[@fjshshdyagag3867]

The Jedi followed the will of the people, not the will of the Force. that is why they had to be killed so that the Sith could then be eliminated and the New Order rise, bringing true Balance to the Forc_ and then Disney Strikes Back!

[@jeckjeck3119]

Fjshsh Dyagag HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! THAT! WAS! good!

[@sirdeadeye6174]

Yeah... peacekeepers am I right?!

[@Alex-ji6ob]

Nuclear Foxy but they are though

[@anthonyhernandez7799]

@@Alex-ji6ob I always found it ironic that they considered themselves peacekeepers but where ok with occupying worlds. Like I know in their mind they were protecting the people of those planets from the separatists/sith. And I get it in order to protect the piece you have to be willing to fight to defend it. Brought the clone wars we see how Jedi and their twisted view on the light side, almost made the militaristic instead of peacekeepers.

[@darthvader4594]

I knew the Jedi were evil!

[@KrasserChris420]

Out of my point of view the Jedi are Evil!

[@KrasserChris420]

Admiral Johnsen I will being justice peace and prosperity to my new empire

[@kingarmani6068]

Out of my point of view they are both evil!

[@mandalorebean2203]

In my point of view*

[@sithpurebloodqueen4812]

Admiral Johnsen if you are not with me then you are my Enemy

[@jedicache6806]

Only Sith deal in absolutes. Huh. Ironic

[@PerovNigma]

Did the ancient Jedi do anything nice?

[@thomasliu5457]

Apparently not, which would explain why people feared and hated the Jedi.

[@jeckjeck3119]

Joseph Simpson We....did......it was..... it was..............okay, I need to evaluate my life choices.

[@PerovNigma]

You want to go home and rethink your life...

[@yellowdevil9650]

The trial of flesh seems like a good idea. How much you wanna bet if they still conducted the trial of flesh, a lot more Jedi wouldn't have turned to the dark side when order 66 was executed, or during the Clone Wars?

[@scriplinque]

Organizations with absolutist attitudes lead to dogma imposed on supporters and believers, so the Jedi Order is no different. They are the Templars of the SW Universe. The Templars were into a lot of weird sh... too lol

[@DBArtsCreators]

"The closer you are to the light, the greater your shadow becomes."

[@alejandromolina7270]

Possibly the worst act the Jedi, having themselves seated as a major power wothin the Republic. Jedi should not mingle with politics and military. They are peacekeepers but are not influenced, or they influence, the Senate.

[@glenwood89420]

The more and more I read into the EU I find the Jedi Order to be the dumbest ever!! As Revan said, the Jedi fear emotion leads to the dark side because they forbid it, leading to when being confronted with it they do not have the mental capacity to deal with the emotions. (paraphrased)

[@Breeg2011]

Frankly, I can see the reason for such a test and it reminds me a lot of the Navy Seals' "Hell Week", or various current military exercises that teach soldiers how to handle situations where they have been captured by the enemy. However, I wonder how well the padawans were explained as to why they had to go through this. If not then I can see how this test might have been the cause for many a force sensitive to fall for the dark side.

[@danlover92]

As much as I admire the Jedi I do feel the darkest act they have committed was to take children from their families at such a young age. While writing a fanfiction I found that there were some well-known Jedi who never knew or had no memory of their families because they were taken at an age where memories did really form. I believe Obi-Wan was taken at 6 months old. I understand the reason why Jedi could not reproduce themselves and had to use force sensitive children but It still doesn't sit well with me the age they were take

[@ericramirez2608]

I think one of the darkest moments of the Jedi is when a muppet manipulated a teenager to unknowingly kill his father. When he was asked for the truth, he just said "unfortunate." Or the time that same muppet told a man to be ver grieve for people they loved.

[@NextGenerationUmmah]

Once.......in a remote part of the galaxy lay the sith purebloods a brutal war took place and the Jedi killed women children and the innocent all those with the markings of the true sith.........

[@loganspinosaurus1413]

At 2:33 there's a Jedi fighting B1 Battle Droids... But there's TIE Fighters in the background? Anyone know about this drawing or is it just fan art?

[@randomizednick1]

Logan Spinosaurus i didnt even notice, that's hilarious

[@GhostCT-ih7ck]

Logan Spinosaurus It'speobavly because a clone pilot found one of the prototypes and took it out for a ride...

[@Alex-ji6ob]

Logan Spinosaurus someone dunfuckedup

[@Classical.Conservative]

im starting to see why anikin thought the jedi were evil

[@meniiix]

I always thought it was pretty fkd up for Jedi to use children​ soldiers for their wars against the sith

[@williamhoang4077]

This is exactly what the Sith did to test their apprentices. Unlike the Jedi, they never abolished it.

[@joshuaweinbender6075]

And they had a hard time understanding why the padawans fell to the dark side the jedi were no different from the sith

[@ham8538]

Palpatine did nothing wrong...

[@bernardroscoe1059]

other than manipulating galactic politics so he could use the clone wars to seize control and destroy the republic

[@ham8538]

Bernard Roscoe All from a certain point of view...

[@Smileypb01]

What's more wrong, Plapatine having 4 Jedi fight each other to the death for survival, or Yoda knowing of a great disturbance for so long and just sitting on his ass about it?

[@lawrencejelsma3937]

Shane S ... I agree! Watching EP VI all it was about was did Emperor Palpatine have his best apprentice to rule the galaxy! From what!? Re-watching EP II we all should know!!

[@jeckjeck3119]

Governor Pryce -looks at your profile pic- I'm not surprised, but hey, if I get those cool uniforms then why not?... ALL HAIL THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!

[@dabestnumber1]

darkest moment was picking up that gungan on naboo

[@IsmaelCiulla]

The trial of flesh in ancient times seems extreme but kind of cool

[@thomasliu5457]

No wonder there enough Sith to take on an army of Jedi, the torturous trials probably fueled their hate and rage, turning them to the Dark Side once they broke away from the Jedi.

[@yamamitsu995]

Ok, i don't wanna become a Jedi then...

[@brokenbridge6316]

The Jedi were never perfect. This video is just more proof of it.

[@erinv1232]

Nice to know Jedi weren't always goody two shoes

[@Thamenos]

For me the worst trial for a Jedi may be the removal of any link to the force. I don't know how many of this cases are, but it may be a very interesting topic for you.

[@monsieurboks]

That's not a trial, that's a means of making someone no longer a threat.

[@Iwinfiltrator]

jedi = monks with glow sticks

[@Tyler_3]

This question is a bit off topic, but since the Sith's power is fueled by hate and rage, how did Darth Plagueis grow to be so strong. Am I missing something simple?

[@TheCrimsonfluf]

Tyler Leech he harbored a lot of hate and rage...? I mean, what makes you think he doesn't? He murdered his father I believe, and you don't do that if you're all sugar and spice

[@Tyler_3]

TheCrimsonfluf ah. well I didn't know that, thank you

[@TheCrimsonfluf]

Tyler Leech ah, gotcha. I think I picked that up from another stupendous video about plag. Maybe look for that? I can't remember the title though. sorry

[@Tyler_3]

TheCrimsonfluf thanks for the info

[@0hvist]

The greatest horrific moment in the history of the Jedi Order is a toss-up between two events: the Force Wars and the Hundred-Year Darkness, both of which had long-lasting effects on the history of the Galaxy as a whole. The Force Wars was the moment when the Jedi Order was officially born: comprised of members of the Je'daii Order that rechristened themselves "The Followers of Ashla", these Je'daii waged an unprecedented civil war against their own kind. The lead-up to this civil war was part of a division within the Je'daii Order as a whole thanks to the Rakatan Invasion of the Tython System. In the Rakatan-Je'daii conflict, Je'daii fell left-and-right to the onslaught of the Infinite Empire and their Force Hound servants and their signature weapons: the Forcesabers, the earliest predecessor to the Lightsaber and is arguably a REAL Weapon of the Force itself as the blade is generated by solidifying the Force that one sensitive to it channels through the chamber to materialize a blade, however the Forcesaber was a weapon built around channeling the Dark Side of the Force and like all Rakatan technology had the ability to corrupt the wielders in-turn. Over the course of the conflict, the Je'daii became divided on the Forcesabers built by the Je'daii Order after researching Xesh's own Forcesaber that he brought with him years prior to the invasion. One camp advocated that while the weapon was indeed a tool of the Dark Side instead of Balance like the Order preached, they viewed it as a necessary evil to be able to fight on the same playing field as the Rakata and the Force Hounds. The others were shell-shocked survivors that had seen friends, family, and loved ones brutally killed and cut-down by the invaders; seeing the Dark Side of the Force as a source of untold evil and swearing away from all forms of it. Years after the Rakata were driven out of the Tython System altogether, the Followers of Ashla in a fit of paranoia and fear declared that the Je'daii that had wielded the Forcesabers were no longer Je'daii themselves because of prolonged usage of it leading to an all-out War that had devastated their own homeworld which ultimately caused the Followers of Ashla to view the Light Side of the Force as the ONLY Side to the Force and the Dark Side as nothing more than a perverse infestation of it. The Followers of Bogan fled to the Outer Rim seeking to be left alone, only for the newly-rechristened Jedi Order to give chase to their former brothers and sisters in hopes of killing them at long last, eventually abandoning their pursuit and settling on Ossus. Thus leading to the end of the Je'daii Order as a whole. The Hundred-Year Darkness while happening millennia later than the Force Wars, had a similar effect when members of the Jedi Order (possibly willed by the Force into falling back towards Balance rather than Division) sought to practice aspects of the Dark Side in hopes of seeing the use they could have towards the civilian populace. However the Jedi saw them as heretics and fought against them, eventually dragging the Republic into the conflict that lasted for a century. At the end of the Hundred-Year Darkness, the Dark Jedi were rounded up and summarily banished into space to meditate and regain the Jedis' twisted version of "Balance" in the Force... while also leaving them to die in the cold vacuum of space with no way to return back home again. It was these same Dark Jedi that landed on Korriban and enslaved the Sith Species and eventually leading to the creation of the Sith Order. The Jedi had a direct role in creating the Sith Order, as well as ultimately driving the Sith Species to total extinction from their inaction to kill the Dark Jedi directly.

[@nicwaterfill2259]

Please explain why the Rebel Alliance didn't hire bounty hunters, like the Empire hires guys like Boba.

[@sithholocron418]

I kinda like this kind of training. Especially this "Trial of Flesh"...sounds delightful. Slam flesh with Force Telekinesis, burn flesh with Force Lightning.

[@jasperhjorth6326]

wtf kotor spoiler why

[@NubyPlaysGaming]

I think the darkest act of the Jedi in legends was the attack on the ancient Sith Empire during the Great Hyperspace War. This wasn't just an attack and occupation, they wiped out most of the ancient Sith.

[@JediAcolyte94]

+The Stupendous Wave What if Han Solo never met Chewbacca? What if the Empire never discovered Echo base?

[@FrostFawks]

The Jedi Order's greatest sin was their fear of the Dark Side. So much so, they condemned countless promising Force-sensitives and allowed them to become slaves to it. They expected balance to remain when they only held half of the Pazaak cards. Perhaps Luke finally sees the error in the Jedi Code. We shall see in the Last Jedi.

[@brucejedilee5290]

He did in the EU and allowed for the use f the dark side as long as you used the light side as well.

[@fraggeddabloons5679]

Have you ever played KOTOR? Bass-till-uh. Not Bastille-uh. You hear it pronounced hundreds of times in the first four hours of the game.

[@PWN4G3FTW]

Please 'The Stupendous Wave' use a different microphone. Everytime you use a word with emphasis on an 'p' I get annoyed. It does not sound enjoyable.

[@ginantsfan5]

Most awesome vid!!!!! To a dark place this takes us yet a part of life pain is mixed feelings about this I have!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@burkesullivan9086]

What if Anakin couldn't kill the younglings? Think about it: "Anakin, now Darth Vader, ignited his lightsaber. The younglings flinched. He could not breathe, they stood no chance against him. They were not Battle Droids or the traitorous Jedi, they were children. He thought of Padmé: they were soon to have a child of their own-the thought of killing a child and alienating her was too much. It would haunt him for the rest of his life, like a shadow. He closed his eyes, thinking carefully about his next move."

[@holliekuber4992]

Question-Did Yoda have his "trial of the flesh?" I'm curious to know...keep up the awesome work

[@ricardoddcda3767]

when they didn't support Ahsoka. That might not seem like much but Ahsoka is the only voice of reason that Ani really listen... So I believe that, in a way, goodbye Ahsoka, hi Vader

[@ninetailednaruto11a]

What did Malek actually do? I just know he was involved with Revan, but otherwise he's just easily forgotten.

[@nahte123456]

So this was extreme, but when you consider that this did turn some padawan's (like you said Bastila), having some sort of controlled test would probably have been good...just not that far.

[@dustrahne]

In Canon, sending Quinlan Vos to assassinate Dooku showed that the Jedi had truly fallen. Not only was it pure murder but it caused massive physical and psychological damage to Vos. The loss of Ventress may be something Quinlan may never recover from.

[@chatch621]

So if I slash off my left arm.... I would not only have an awesome mechanical left arm, but I would be a badass Jedi Knight?

[@liammorris9372]

*I think one of the darkest times in Jedi history was during the Mandalorian Wars and the resultant Jedi Civil War* as well as shortly after. This is because many Jedi who were frustrated with the Order's "Hands off" approach to the Mandalorian war which resulted in them leaving to help the war effort and stop the Mandalorians slaughtering people. However, the *Jedi, lead by Revan and Malak, who fought in the war turned to the dark side of the force* due to all the death and destruction around them which left echos in the force. We only know of one Jedi who didnt turn to the dark side, Meetra Surik, and she was the only Jedi to return to the temple to face judgement but was exiled. *The Jedi Civil War further weakened the Jedi and made their numbers dwindle. The remaining Jedi gathered on Mustafaar, a planet of force sensitives, which was then consumed by Darth Nilus*, driving the people to extinction, bar one blind girl who he used to track more Jedi as *there were 7 known Jedi left in the galaxy (5 were council members and the others were Meetra Surik and Bastila Shan)*. During Meetra Surik's time, 4 of the concil members were killed by a sith who wanted to kill the force and turned the 5th council member to the dark side. Fortunately however, Meetra Surik trained her entire humanoid crew in the ways of the force and the Jedi, allowing the Jedi Order to continue. Meetra herself though fell in battle as she was betrayed in an attempt to convince the Sith Dark Lord that her betrayer was on his side.

[@ecthox-1mork909]

I think this was dark of the Jedi, very extreme that they tortured their own Padawans, and admittedly effective for building resilience. It's unsurprisingly Sith-like. I don't know what the darkest moment in Jedi history is, since I'm not fully familiar with their history. The attempted killing of the padawans you addressed in a previous video I think really stands out for me. Very much like many centuries-old modern institutions in real life, including spiritual and religious ones, the Jedi actually do have a very dark history and an Inquisitorial past which has faded in modern times and been sugar-coated as they've been characterised as the good guys. And I agree, I find it more interesting that the Jedi are supposed to be the heroes and peacekeepers and benevolent spiritualists, yet have had some really dark moments in their history. :) Well explained video as always. :)

[@AndrejTelisman]

Why would be Jedi evil if they test their future leaders ? All trials they must pass, even, Trial of flesh is design to see and make best operative of peace/police organization like Jedi order. In field, if you fighting Sith or terrorist or evil group, torture is possible outcome if you are captured (informations or just pure sadistic pleasure),. Jedi must be prepared for this dire situation or they are in real danger to FALL to dark side... Jedi code: "There is no ignorance; there is knowledge." If they are not prepared(or they try to ignore it (Ignorent) and learn what is pain(Knowlidge), , they will succumb to rage or fear or revenge when they are released... Anakins stand that Jedi are evil, is path of ignorance of all that he lived as Knight, he didi forgetthat they are warriors not lovers.

[@captainkirk4171]

If I remember correctly after the Republic defeated the Old Sith Empire during The Great Hyperspace War, the GAR and the Jedi enacted a campaign of genocide on the Sith people. Which I guess you could say had a domino effect on how the Jedi and Sith would always in the future would try to wipe each other out.

[@sambrainard3487]

+Sunglass Kirby... Sorry, but that's a rather stupid thing to say. At the time order 66 was executed, this practice was no longer followed. Did you not pay attention to what he said? It was banned when the jedi entered their modern times.

[@isaacrossetti4257]

The Ancient Jedi were Very Similar To the Modern Sith No Wonder Palpatine Tols Anakin That Yhey were Similar

[@pendragonfan42]

As a group of individuals that are otherwise meant to be chaste (few exceptions), calling it "The Trial(s) of the Flesh" seems a little...odd to me.

[@jakecolchin3694]

The Jedi are no different from the Sith, just two sides to the spectrum known as the force. The Sith are evil and sinister yes, but no more then the Jedi. Anakin was the chosen one, turning to the dark side, he destroyed the Jedi that had wiped out the Sith for the most part, and made a large imbalance in the force towards the light side. Then after his battle with his son Luke on the Death Star, he destroyed the Sith that had grown all powerful. Therefore, with the Jedi and the Sith truly all gone, he brought real balance to the force, and to the galaxy, perhaps more then there had ever been. I would LOVE to see luke create a new grey Jedi order, with Rey, Finn, and yes even Ben as his students. After defeating Snoke of course, being that he has been there all along and now there are no Jedi left. Luke even says in the new trailer for "The last Jedi" "it's time for the Jedi to end" which is a little strange but I loved the turn he's made, and I believe he may already be a gray Jedi, symbolized by his robes we saw him in during his small, but amazing, part in "The force awakens" his robes were a light gray color, also how he has removed himself from the conflict with the first order, and his line from the new trailer all added together. The new line alone draws some red flags right away for me. And I hate to say it, but that would be a great place to end StarWars. In the end, it's a story about the Skywalker family, and this ending would show how they ultimately purified the force, from both extremes of the Jedi and the Sith. Then created the "Grey Jedi" to make sure the balance remained, because they are not affiliated with the light or the dark, only the force as a whole. I believe that is the entire StarWars story, I get some people will disagree and trust me, I don't want StarWars to end! I've been watching it my whole life. But I'm okay with this ending. And I believe it would hit home with at least a majority of the fans, and conclude this beautiful, gorgeous thing that has captivated our lives. If anyone read this far, thank you.... it took a while to type... I'm on my iPhone currently

[@johnshepard7630]

Back in the Old republic day, the Jedi were more militaristic. Throughout time, those in the upper echelons of the military must undergo torture training in order to prepare them for the unlikely, yet ever present risk, of being capture and torture. So, I didn't know, but i;m not suprise.

[@footloosemongoose9760]

In the words of Darth Sidious " Evil is a point of view..." After all in ROTS, to all intents and purposes, they DID indeed commit high treason, spy on the chancellor off-record and made an attempt on his life. I believe a villian is merely a hero of the opposing side, and to that end I think the Jedi are in many ways just as messed up as the Sith in terms of their perspectives, but what I find most disturbing is the control of the Jedi over their own, demanding subservience over every aspect of thier lives, essentially denying those of thier ranks freedom of choice and will within thier order.

[@chunkybadger3898]

I just want a clone wars era movie (towards the starting with the beginning and end of the war) with a Jedi we don't know or barely know (like Eeth Koth or some new Jedi) with a squad of clones voiced by Dee Bradley Baker and with Temuera morrison as the clones face/body (each with their own personalized look). They would develop a close bond with one another and be sent into some of the most dangerous and deadly missions during the war. As each battle goes on fewer of the squad remains and new clones fill the gap showing how expendable they truly are. Also having the clones be in actual armor. I want it to show how the clone wars truly was from the clones perspective not the Jedi's.

[@GAdmThrawn]

While this was a moment of moral degeneration for the Jedi, it was just a moment in history. Instead of clamoring for "Jedi are evil!", "Palpatine was right!", "Jedi are stupid!", actually realize that this was *thousands* of years in the past. And just like Stupendous Wave had said, they eventually realized how wrong this method of initiating the trial was and abandoned it. This is what people should be celebrating instead of the Jedi's destruction! The Jedi had made a mistake and worked to fix it, to progress, to change to something better! I do find it interesting to see the progress that the Jedi Order had made over the many thousands of years that it had went through. The type of Jedi that we see in the movies wasn't like that in the beginning, and it took reformations, genocide, fissions, and other disasters for it to be this way. What it means to be a Jedi would change each and every time. Through it all, their values of being the "keepers of peace and justice" were kept.

[@bronhanrylghan2712]

So... I am going to say that while extreme, this Jedi practice is not in fact inherently evil. My argument is fairly simple & straight forward. 1: If we give the benefit of the doubt to the Jedi & assume that any padawan could refuse the trial of flesh, than even at the expense of their possible knighthood, they are making the choice to endure & no one is in fact forcing them to do anything that they don't consent to 2: In theory, some form of a pain tolerance & endurance test is completely valid & logical, as a prerequisite for joining a military/police/etc. order. While not a pleasant experience, something like what this video describes is a very sensible test for those entering into an extreme pressure/risk/important role or task. One has to know with some degree of accuracy if someone can be trusted with critical tasks or information etc. 3: Another hypothetical, self knowledge, in the sense of what you can or cannot do or can or cannot withstand is critical in pressure situations, it can be the difference between life & death, potentially. The trial of flesh would help a padawan learn their limitations & possibly push them farther Now, though I do believe the points I've suggested here, let me also say that this is uncertain ground to tread on. The Jedis practices of taking children to raise them very specifically could easily & maybe accurately be called programming or indoctrination, either of these considerations would remove free will & the ability to meaningfully not consent, to a degree, rendering my points reasonably more shaky. All I will say in closing is that to push & test ones self is a powerful thing, handled correctly & for the right reasons suffering or trials of one sort or another can lead to great things Just my 2 cents

[@rfc1526]

Probably worst thing I can think of is the Padawan Massacre conducted by the Jedi Covenant.

[@daniels7907]

It might seem trivial, but concealing their declining awareness of the Force from the Senate was a major contributing factor to the advent of the Clone Wars. The Republic was very complacent because they had, for centuries, been reassured that the Jedi could foresee threats through the Force. Thus the Republic was unprepared for the rising crisis because they had been conditioned to believe that if such a massive threat really loomed, the Jedi would warn them well in advance. Instead, the Jedi were as surprised as anybody by the militarization of the Separatists (and the secret militarization of the Republic). This allowed the galaxy to reach a state of open war solely because the Jedi were more concerned about preserving their credibility and status within the Republic than they were with being guardians of truth and justice.

[@MrAwesomeBart]

A little sparks means nothing in face of being Adeptus Astartes and service of True Emperor of Mankind.

[@Doomin-c2m]

Well, the jedi are canonically villains. For example; -they ran a secret, private prison -they planned to assert direct jedi rule over the senate -their whole conflict with the sith started because the jedi attacked a few of their members who dabbled in the dark side, causing a war that sent the dark jedi fleeing to unknown space. Later that group of fallen jedi found Korriban, the homeworld of the sith species, and there they intermingled with the sith and eventually created an empire. Later this empire came into contact with the Republic, and after conflicts ensued, the jedi went to Korriban and sacked the entire planet, killing billions of sith including innocent civilians, women and children. A handful of sith escaped and started the cycle of wars that leads up to Sidious and Vader.

[@stoneryoda9377]

There is a quote from battlefront 2 ( I'm not sure who said it , but someone mentioned the first order taking children & making them soldiers "and the Jedi didn't " I thought that was quite cool , because I always felt bad for anikins mother in the phantom menace , like I would never leave my family on a planet like that .

[@danukil7703]

Masters torturing their padawans... many conclusions may be drawn

[@madisonatteberry9720]

It was also appropriate for the time. If a padwan was captured then they needed to endure some type of torture brought by the Sith. One of my JROTC commanders in my high school days was a Vietnam vet and went through a training similar when he had to endure simulations of waterboarding and electric shock. He said that after that training he decided that being captured alive wouldn't be an option for the enemy. Either he was going to kill them all or himself. The military doesn't do this (as far as we know) anymore. So no what the ancient Jedi did doesn't affect my view of them. It was necessary for the environment the Jedi were in.

[@darthtroller]

similarly to OUR own history, the Jedi had dark secrets, that's so accurate

[@jonsmith1149]

What if the entire Jedi order completely went dark? How would this affect the prequels and original trilogy?

[@Awsomatude]

@The Stupendous Wave can you do a video on whether or not Luke did these trials, because if he didn't Kylo would've gone through the Trial of Flesh on Starkiller base when Rey scared him at the same time he went through his Sith trial as well. Thank you if you read this

[@AishaVonFossen]

I'm kinda torn on this one...kinda. I don't believe torture should be implemented, and I still really like the Jedi, but I kinda see a purpose behind this kind of method. I'm glad they eventually got rid of it, and I wouldn't like to see it come back, don't get me wrong, but the reason behind this method was to train their apprentices to endure pain in any situation, which I can see as kinda making sense. At least it doesn't seem like this was meant with any kind of sadistic purposes, which is what I worried about when I saw this video's title. The Jedi are not without skeletons in their collective closet, but this seemed like it was meant to prepare their apprentices for any kind of hardship, especially if they ever found themselves in enemy hands. Extreme, absolutely, and I'd recommend against it, but it also had some kind of purpose.

[@mindlord0013]

I don't think the Trial of Flesh itself was bad. Almost certainly, the way some Masters went about testing it was wrong.

[@ericfluellen8957]

I think it is rather naïve to believe that the Jedi are this perfect union. When gather a group of mortals if you will, to form an organization you are bound to find its dark past. This is true for one main reason mortals are fallible.

[@willblack7353]

Ahsoka definitely passed the Trial of the Flesh. I mean, how many times did Ahsoka get knocked out or stunned?

[@passerby5735]

The worst thing the Jedi ever did was defy the Senate and attempt to assassinate Supreme Chancellor Palpatine :~P very uncool

[@grunntalll]

cant find a link to the "rule of three" podcast or anything like that through search, maybe im stupid

[@RockRedGenesis]

In my view one of the darkest moment in jedi history is the Taris massacre, Jedi Masters killing their own padawans due to a misinterpreted force vision, too bad it's legends, cause that is an awesome set of Old Republic comics

[@ggarzagarcia]

wow...this was a great topic today. never knew the Jedi could be bad in order to be good, in a sense. I appreciate your comments. keep the videos rolling!

[@shadowhunter0815]

Well... One could say, it was a product of its time. Considering, that it came from a time, the Jedi were often in conflict with the Sith, and the Sith would gladly use torture to brake the Jedi and turne them to the Dark Side, it kinda makes sense, that the Jedi would their Padawans to train in order to resist and overcome pain. Doesn't make it right but at least it makes sense.

[@clay8894]

What if a parent with a force sensitive child says no and the kid was very powerful in the force? Would they forcibly take them or let Them succumb to whatever happens?

[@monkeydust100]

something about SAND & the HIGH GROUND etc etc

[@CharlieAlphaTV]

I love it. I think that shows why the ancient Jedi were able to battle on the battlefield against the hundreds of Sith. It's a great way to make sure that everybody earns their stripes. It's an extreme tactic but it speaks to the mindset of ancient Jedi. Because you're going to pay your dues one way or another to be in this fucking club

[@stevemcqueen7735]

I'd like to see the Jedi warriors of the old republic. I couldn't understand why the Jedi of the new republic were such pussies. Why didn't they recover the old ways with the armor and the attitude. They didn't fall to the dark side because of war it made them stronger and more humble. I was hoping in the new star wars to see the sith come back with their orders of warriors. The prequels I like except for a few bumps the new one seems to be a remake.

[@ThePCguy17]

I...disagree with you. I agree that any trial that may kill the person undertaking it is a horrible idea, but the principle of the trial of flesh is sound. A Jedi, at least any Jedi who is going to become a warrior, needs to have experience with the kind of pain the life of a warrior will cause. One of the many reasons that the Order fell was their lack of strong, harsh standards with which to combat the Sith. Of course, they thought that their ancient enemies had died out, but that doesn't excuse them entirely. Any force user who gave in to their darker emotions could still fall to the dark side, and the best way to prevent those falls from happening is to show padawans exactly what causes, or can cause a fall. But the Jedi Order of peacetime didn't have the stomach for such things, and so its students, and even its leaders all fell like wheat in a field at the first legitimate threat in thousands of years.

[@roblowis]

The darkest page in Jedi history is how they partook in the genocide of the Sith species at the end of the Great Hyperspace War. The Chancellor of the Galactic Republic was not satisfied with the defeat of the old Sith Empire, he deemed it vital that the entire species of the red-skinned people was to be eradicated. The Jedi took part in this genocide, in essence becoming the very evil they fought to defeat.

[@gwyndolin1536]

Why not just water board them? As long as they use the word "Freedom" in the title or do it in space guantanamo bay, it's alright, right?

[@fuzzygurl23]

Damn, If Rey learn all about this, I wonder what will she thinks and feels from all the torture given to the padawans in ancient times....

[@dragontamerjosh8501]

Personally, I think the Jedi order had some idiotic rules and they were way too tough on their Padawans. Although the Jedi are seen as the good guys, the order has so many flaws that it seems very questionable. Personally I think it was not only Anakin's love for Padme but the strictness of the Jedi order that led Anakin to the dark side.

[@togglefire3537]

This really doesn't surprise me. Even though Jedi are peaceful they still have to fight so they need to know if they can handle being hurt in combat. Although this does give a large reflection on to the order itself and just like most people the more and more you learn about the Jedi the more and more you despise them. I understand this last trial and the reason they would do this sometimes in peace but still it's quite hypocritical.