Why Are HPL Aliens Anti-Technology?

[@tssteelx]

Magic is just technology we don't understand. I think that sums up the aliens in love craft.

[@rodClark717]

Arthur C Clarke reminds us that sufficiently advanced tech=magic. Biotech will yield control of our immediate environment this century(in it's infancy it's already got chimps flying drones and prostheses that function almost flawlessly), so it's no stretch to assume boundaries aren't where we think forever.

[@nopushbutton]

this makes me wonder what kind of memes the Old Ones would have

[@ataricom]

A meme is a basically a unit of culture. Do the Old Ones even have culture?

[@nopushbutton]

@@ataricom You know, I had assumed they would, due to their advancedness, but they may not have a need for it. Not sure..

[@CSLFiero]

oh the folly to think the hordes from void or their unfathomable masters haven't consumed civilizations awash in technology or escaped temporal prisons of godlike design.

[@Spellfork]

A whole race of Newtons would be easily wiped out by all the falling apples :)

[@sartarite]

Clarke's Laws. Any sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic... and its inverse, any sufficiently advanced magic will look like technology. I don''t think that Cthulhu bothers about science, though, especially not in the observation and repeatable experiment meaning. Starspawn would have an innate, probably inherited awareness of natural laws, both those confined to the space-time humanity can envision and to other realms. For some reason, they do seem to find our space-time attractive enough to take it for their own. HPL's universe operates on rules quite different from what our science has found, and probably still quite different from what his contemporary science had envisioned. For someone with even a marginal background in the physics of our frame of reference, these concepts are quite alien. But I think that is the point of it - Lovecraft's aliens don't necessarily share or are limited to our frame of reference.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

I don't thihnk Starspawn have to carry out experimental procedures, no.

[@sartarite]

Unless it is observation of human reactions to the interaction between Starspawn and humans... not quite repeatable, especially when it comes to individual humans, though.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

it's not "science" in the sense that Cthulhu is not carrying out experiments and making hypotheses. He does have a full understanding of our universe's laws though.

[@FredTuisila-yo1kf]

Effectively, living technology in their own right.

[@thentheric6361]

Now I understand why Quake's runic platforms ratchet as they hover mid-air: space-warping alien science, that's what! :D

[@TheSwartz]

Fascinating!

[@awesward4454]

How are you going to fight something that makes you insane the moment you lay eyes on it? Madness.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

Bird box theory eh?

[@DeathBYDesign666]

The question is how do you simulate that without first being insane? There is a way: hallucinogens like LSD, DMT, DXM, peyote, eboga, mescaline, shrooms etc.

[@mikemalley1909]

On one of these episodes, could you cover what you consider Cthulhu's minimum height and how you arrived at that conclusion?

[@SandyofCthulhu]

done

[@mikemalley1909]

Woo-hoo!

[@SandyofCthulhu]

done!

[@Avtomatik]

Oh sandy sandy, what did u get urself into? Now ull have to make a series out of these...

[@SandyofCthulhu]

neat

[@SandyofCthulhu]

agreed

[@andersschmich8600]

I assume that a lot of the species have evolved beyond the need for clunky mechanical technology which is external to them like we have, their minds, bodies and 'technology' have effectively become the same thing.

[@tonk82]

Amazing video. Nice to see that your channel is growing.

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

Any suitably advanced technology will look like magic to the uninitiated.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

The quote is actually "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The term for this type of technology is known as Clark tech. They might have devices that don't even look like technology to us, thus not using circuitry or moving mechanical components like we do. They can manipulate and utilize matter and energy in ways we can't yet understand. You might be holding an alien smart phone in your hands but it looks like a solid chunk of glass or metal for instance.

[@thewillandtheway6127]

The way I present stuff like this is that asking the question of technology use or science is proof of fundamentally missing the point when dealing with the aliens. I think of it like this: when I did the organic chemistry for my pre-reqs, people would focus very hard on learning the rules and I'd focus on thinking about what the forces were up to in the back of my head. I could get a perfect score on exams with maybe 15 minutes of actual review of the material we were supposed to know because all the rules were a bunch of "well duh, of course it works like that". I had a friend who I would help study that would get incredibly angry at me because I wouldn't "study the material", kept asking insane questions that didn't deal with the current chemistry chapter or were not even about chemistry, and I was blowing off the formulas like they didn't matter. She ditched me for about a week, and then came back and was like: there has to be a method to the madness that she couldn't understand because studying with other study groups made her realize exactly how well she understood the material even if she didn't understand how she got there. She still would get super frustrated when we would discuss the chemistry and I'd do something like answer her question about electronegativty with a question about purse snatching, but she stuck with it and by the end of the semester she beat the previous all time high score on the professor's cumulative final by by nearly half a letter grade. There were other classes she did better in than I did, but organic chemistry was a subject that was generally so blatantly obvious to me that I came across like a total madman when discussing it. I think Lovecraft aliens are like that, but vastly more so, to the point that even our basic concepts of science would to their minds fundamentally miss the point. If we asked them how to make a fusion reactor they'd ponder a question so quaint they'd never even considered it and then respond with a statement explaining why you didn't want a fusion reactor in the first place but the answer would make about as much sense as telling an allegorical tale to a predominantly concrete thinker. Or they would tell you how to make a fusion reactor and wouldn't understand that it wasn't obvious to you that it would open a portal to what your mind would perceive as hell. It isn't that they understand science. It is that science is a conceptual framework that is fundamentally incapable of modeling reality properly and we are too simple to understand why. The idea that there are even atoms to split would be to them about as laughable as a dog thinking shadows on a cave wall cause sounds to occur behind them.

[@sandypetersen6935]

that's a really good way to describe it.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

They would find our Science more absurd than we find the alchemy that brought us chemistry. That is my take away and I have always believed this to be true.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

I also had this ability to know things just through sheer logical deduction, I almost never studied the material at all but I was an amazing test taker nonetheless. Once you have the framework of knowledge you don't actually need the inns and outs and in-betweens necessarily. Once you know the concept of 1 and 10 you can intuit what lies between them without knowing the names of the numbers between them. The concepts in science are part of the fundamental nature of reality so it's reasonable to assume that some creatures just automatically perceive this.

[@drengurola]

Thanks Sandy. Pretty good explanation... for a human.

[@nicholaswoollhead6830]

Great video, thanks mate

[@oneoneonefour]

I'll be sharing this video with anyone that says HPL creatures are weak or without tech. Short, sweet, to the point

[@singletona082]

I have noticed a trend in my posts on your videos that I've been harsh to outright combative about lovevrsft and the creature. I... Don't want that to be taken personally. You are a man who is showing a hell of a lot of enthusiasm and care for the setting and I don't want you to feel like I'm tryin to take a dump on you or what you've done. Lovevrsft never really say right with me and nobody's been s le to really get the whole thing to 'click' and....I'm afraid I've been taking that out on you. That is unfair of me. I'm sorry.

[@LordVader1094]

Respect

[@SandyofCthulhu]

you are forgiven

[@SpectrumDT]

Good video. But IMO it would have been better if you had been clearer about which of the "facts" you cited are supported by Lovecraft's writings and which are your own fan-canon.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

all is supported or implied by Lovecraft except my statement that Cthulhu can change the laws of nuclear physics near him. Byakhee are summoned from other planets instantly, so obviously are FTL, and so forth.

[@HowToPnP]

Lovecrafts supertech is kinda magic, depending on your definition of magic. Lovecraft intentionally blurred the line between between science and magic. Let's take dreams in the witch house as an example: The portals are definitely based on math and physics, but practices are described like magic "He must sign in his own blood the book of Azathoth and take a new secret name", the witch had a familiar and so on. (Also, other Mythos writer and Friends of Lovecraft, like Clark Ashton Smith or Robert E Howard used basically the same thinks Lovecraft did, but called them "magic") Basically, from a human point of understanding, it's magic. BUT this definition is younger than the tech, so we have it backward! This should be the timeline: 1) Lovecraftian beings developed technology with (what we would call) metaphysical elements. 2) Primitive humans saw this technology and called it magic or miracles. 3) Human technology progresses. Since we can't replicate the metaphysical elements of this technology, we call it "magic", based on old human myth. 4) Some humans learn the metaphysical aspects of this technology, but are treated as magicians or witches. The metaphysical elements become part of the myths surrounding magic. So the signing the book of Azathoth with your blood sounds like a magic thing. But in the context of Lovecrafts world it's a part of metaphysical science, that was misunderstood by humans. The tech looks like magic, because humans declared it to be magic. Not because it isn't science! It's science, we just can't understand it. For some additional context: Try to explain how a computer works to someone who has no idea what electricity is. You can't the whole concept would make no sense to them, they are like 3 layers removed from what a computer is. They would just think that it's magic!

[@yegenek]

Anti-technology aliens? I think they certainly did not read much Lovecraft, especially "The Whisperer in Darkness", " The Shadow out of Time" and "At the Mountains of Madness".

[@wesleyfilms]

I’d compare them to Dr. Manhattan. They can fly through space while naked, and can manipulate matter through logical means. They might even perceive time differently.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

Or something like the Q or the beyonders who just have the innate natural ability to manipulate reality on a whim.

[@TheSquareOnes]

Say what you will about his potential (and as a being seemingly beyond immortality he'll eventually get the last laugh), but Cthulhu did get dunked on almost immediately by a boat. I've always had a hard time taking him seriously after actually reading the eponymous story. Are there any works you'd recommend that cast Cthulhu and his kind in a better light? Completely agree with everything else though, people tend to conflate technology with capabilities in a way that only makes sense for beings like us that are completely incapable without our tech. This could very well even be the case in reality, there's no reason to think there might be aliens out there right now that are "more intelligent" than humans but don't have space-travel tech simply because they've never needed to develop technology at all.

[@SandyofCthulhu]

Strange Aeons, by Robert Bloch. Also let's be fair about the Cthulhu/boat thing. In 1927, the mightiest engine known to mankind was a steamship. Nothing ever came close. The point of the story isn't that a steamship can briefly discombobulate Cthulhu, it's that humanity's most powerful machine can't stop the starspawn.

[@TheSquareOnes]

@@SandyofCthulhu Thanks, I might have to pick that up. Haven't read much mythos stuff from people other than Lovecraft, mostly just some of Clark Ashton Smith's short stories, so could definitely do to broaden my horizons there. And that is a fair point, when you put it that way it's a bit like stories from a few decades ago that were set in "the sci-fi future of 2005" or something that has become equally ridiculous in hindsight. If you put specifics to anything then you run the risk of telling an outdated tale, it's just a shame that in this particular case it makes an eldritch abomination seem oddly weak by modern standards. Honestly it's impressive that so much of Lovecraft's writing holds up due to how well he generally avoided those kinds of specifics, while still providing enough information that the "threat" itself is clear and distinct.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

He was mildly inconvenienced, a human can get dunked on harder with a small shard of glass or a good chunk of obsidian.

[@nathandotterweich4208]

Technology is a crutch to make up for deficiencies. A god doesn’t need to make robots to work faster or longer or to use computers to solve complex problems more quickly. Technology is an augment. And that’s without getting into umwelt and how what may seem an advancement or understanding of the universe may be pathetic compared to another’s (and this is exemplified in the notion that the technology of ourselves is superior.) Lovecraft clearly alludes to this many times when he refers to the geometries of the outsiders being off.

[@samghost13]

Hello Could you do a Video where you explain why Cthulhu is so Popular more than the others. That would be Awesome!

[@Lichnaya_pravda]

They are just biologically perfect, almost gods.

[@moneymrcrabs6814]

Teknofobik skum

[@singletona082]

My issue with lovevrsft's aliens and 'gods' are that they never really demonstrate that they ARE better than us. Oh hey Bobby tentacle thing. Oogs boobs boots. Some property of them causes madness in humans. Awesome. They are super tough. Amazing. My seven year old niece can make a boring invincible squid monster. Holy never sold me that these gibbering things are all that special. Strip the purple prose vomited everywhere and all we have are the accounts of the deranged thst these things mean anything. As a disclaimer I haven't read that much of lovevrsft's stories in any recent times. So memory imperfect. I get what you are going for and it probably says something that I find the game call of cthuhlu far more interesting than the lovevrsft stories. I've just... Never seen these brims as more than cosmozoic critters that we humans believe are greater than they probably are. Ok there are those psychic assholes that body swap. Neat trick. I somehow doubt they are being honest with us given we apparently are on the short list of the next skins they want to wear.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

I don't think you are the target audience. 1. Cthulhu might not even be real in-universe. So it is a bit of an assumption to say the story is not purely about a shared hallucination. 2. Cthulhu is if "real" at least a 4th dimensional being built of material not native to our reality. I would be hard-pressed at 7 to grasp all this, maybe 12 or so. I still struggle visualizing more than 3 spatial dimensions and branching timelines and that is just scratching the surface of weird fiction.

[@disfuncionexe]

cos were gonna make gundams and punch them