Why Are Items Getting Weaker?

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Teamfight Tactics, TFT, Clips, K3Soju, Kiyoon, Scarra, Becca, Hafu, BoxBox, Keane, Disguised Toast, Kurumx, Bebe, Mortdog

[@reldrago]

last whisper giving 90% armor reduction was absolutely insane looking back on it

[@teemimika7105]

It's like blighting jewel teemo on steroid

[@user-uu3mj8vp8b]

It did what

[@igorporfiirio4915]

I mean, it was necessary to counter thornmail + warmog or things like that.

[@joshuatolentino5566]

I used that in set 6 Ezrael Main with s Runnan's and Innovators... nasty. Each attack from Runnan and regular auto from Ezrael would eat their Armor

[@joshuatolentino5566]

​@@teemimika7105have you tried it on Morgana?

[@yasuo4506]

Set 1 Thornmail (aka Bramble vest) made enemy's backline commit suicide

[@shinolaze]

LMAO

[@cadeptt]

3 star braum carry with Thorn mail was so fun

[@jeppex4686]

The dragon trait in set 1 used to give immunity against magic damage lmao

[@junyangluo7164]

I love how to aurelion sol can only try to aa each other to death

[@ScottE77]

Yordle gave so much dodge chance you were insta win against auto attack champions

[@jeppex4686]

@@ScottE77 oh yeah but wasnt that like set 3 or 4?

[@ScottE77]

@@jeppex4686 Nah, set 1, I didn't play 3 or 4 and pretty sure it wasn't set 2.

[@junyangluo7164]

@ScottE77 na Yordle is still OK since we have rfc but no one can go pure magic damage comp cause of dragon

[@iheartlownotes]

dclaw also used to shoot a nuke back at the enemy when the user was hit by a spell lmao

[@junyangluo7164]

That is set 5 I love how every carry in that set need some kind of healing or they make get bonce to death by dclaw

[@MiniMarshmallow1996]

i loved this haha

[@MrBrotkante]

And gunblade used to work on damage dealt by items. Sunfire Bramble Gunblade Shyvana (with dragon trait) was unkillable and dealt insane dmg.

[@willzombieking8100]

I still miss 200 MR DClaw

[@Ridlay_]

70% Magic Damage Reduction is CRAZY

[@ruruisu]

I swear it used to be 99%, or maybe it was the dragon trait, or both

[@enricokaiser7735]

​@@ruruisu it was the Dragon trait

[@AhmedMostafa-tx4dr]

@@ruruisu yes, it was 99% at the start of set 1 and they nerfed it

[@VirusZero0140]

Basically all abilities did magic damage only too

[@igorporfiirio4915]

I remember putting Thornmail, Dragon's claw and warmoog in random hcampions and seeing them solo everything in some ridiculously dumb ways.

[@check9094]

great to see this transparency and solid reasoning

[@ANTHONYEVELYNN]

me playing set 2 forcing zed with ga+redemption every game

[@ANTHONYEVELYNN]

i wrote this comment and he talked about zed 5 seconds later 🤣🤣 I MISS HIM SO MUCH PLSSS 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@godnkls]

Give him a light spatula and he is a one man army. The memories...

[@EdisArchive]

Same bro 😔

[@jessm.sandler7187]

I remember going spark ga redemption on zed vs a fed veigar 3. Only way he'd win is if he tagged the correct zed twice

[@josephdoan1355]

There is a clip out there that a 1 star 2 cost trundle soloed a 3 star 😅

[@wotebo3097]

One item being key to certain champions seems perfectly fine to me. I mean like ashe needs rageblade, syndra needs BB etc. gives u direction each game and creates more interesting scenarios.

[@simsim4910]

Ngl I like how sometimes you need certain items. Having core items for units gives you a bit of agency in choosing what to build

[@chrischeng9145]

Yea but maybe not 100 need or lose when obtaining the items can be a little RNG, back when augments weren't there to supplement terrible luck

[@Willdroyd]

Yeah but also it does feel kinda sad that its ALWAYS rageblade, Deathblade GS all of that are interchangable but none can DARE to touch rageblade on some champs XD

[@simsim4910]

@@Willdroyd I mean, senna is a good exaple from this set where rb went from one of the best to kinda bad

[@Willdroyd]

@@simsim4910 I mostly mean that there are always champs where they just live on rageblade, the only contender that it has now is Nashors Tooth but it has, since set 1, been the main item for all people who want attack speed, if you want attack speed you want rageblade but if you want attack damage you have options

[@simsim4910]

@@Willdroyd there used to be rfc which was better then RB on some champs, eg set 9 Azir as it gave more power for the early parts of fights But that is now an artifact, so difficult to acquire

[@TTyronE_]

I remember running full tank items (when applicable) paired with Electric in Set 2, especially Bramble Vest - and just sitting back and watching as my impossibly tanky units were just recoiling and regurgitating so much damage back just for being hit.

[@Meichrob7]

I also feel like it was way easier to force item dependent comps in early tft. I used to do mage Varus in set 2 and that needed a spatula and 3 large rods, and I feel like I got those much more often than not when I tried to force the comp.

[@dorian.r5774]

i remember when Sunfire was out for the first time, first person to build it just won everyround, it was so so damn op

[@AlvaroNIcolas354]

I think one of the most broken thing in early sets was the capacity of unmerge golden crowns with recicle bin

[@omegalongdong]

I was so confused after playing set 10 after a long time of quitting, i thought they made some lower tier of items(which is kind of true btw), because i didn't understand where the 70% magic dmg reduction went on dragonclaw. Now we have artifact and masterwork items instead which is much more fun imo.

[@xSirhc]

I wonder if it’s too much work to have a stat track mechanic like in arenas where it shows an item/augments damage this combat and in total…it’d be complicated I assume, but maybe worth it

[@proxima8743]

Dclaw and pd on renekton was insane

[@danielchin4198]

I love current dragon claw tbh. Max hp regen is cool for certain "infinite" hp comps like garen with seraphs in set 10(and 11)

[@stegotops7415]

This is so true with the early sets, reminds me of how you would just throw shivs on whoever had the best attack speed because it was giga OP.

[@aradan3913]

Set 2 3* Braum solo was a thing, eve + protector with spell vamp and dclaw was a thing.

[@wowRichtoad]

D. Claw in the first few sets was RIDICULOUS. It felt like you NEEDED an AD off carry if you were building an AP team just in case you ran into a D. Claw because otherwise you just never killed the tank. And if that tank happened to be a Braum with Thornmail? Godspeed.

[@SwogFrog]

Im surprised that mort didnt also say (unless i missed it) that since you just get MORE everything now (stats, econ, items, encounters, augments, even traits and champions) that they have to reduce the power that each item individually gives. Plus increasing skill expression by spreading power budget between vectors Maybe that’s not part of the rationale though

[@siema14123]

Thornmail for bramble and arcane comet on dclaw was gas

[@christophersolver2670]

I still remember that braum in set 1 or 2 is unkillable if 3* 😂

[@Ergdoelloos]

I mean, that kindred/hwei example has ALOT more to do with hwei, then it has to do with blue buff.

[@superbob24]

If you nerf the gap between best in slot and not having it, then it just becomes play the best comp every game since items don't matter.

[@Carlordau]

Also means if the power level for items is too low there is no incentive to slam items until you have BiS as well.

[@FOURTWENTY.SIXTYNINE]

Items used to have a meaningful impact early, so you could risk slamming components. Now, pretty much you highroll if you hit shop and can't counter play as much through items.

[@meleme5019]

thornmail+gunblade combo on braum/amumu on early sets hahahaha

[@jameslana9152]

Anyone remember giant slayer when they added it….

[@christhis9597]

As someone who doesnt like to look at comp and item guides: good. I dont wanna have to open an encyclopedia every time i wanna play tft

[@legrestti]

i love the items rigth now... all feel so good... like every time u combine them it does wath it supose to do the combination of items xD

[@LifeOrbes]

I think it's also with so much item agency added to the game with anvils, augments like Pandora's, YWF, etc it's a lot easier to hit "BIS" items, whereas back in the day you were just praying you didn't get dropped 4 cloaks and 4 rods when playing ad comps 😢

[@muhammadilyas8107]

"you said that we always lowered the item and in reality we still think the item is too strong" Well, it make sense i guess *looking at Tham and Amumu+illaoi*

[@johnnyblackrants7625]

At the highest level, players are actually LESS dependent on BiS, not more. You'll rarely see no rageblade Ashe in diamond (same with no LW), but you will in high challenger.

[@DavidVloch]

Dont get me started on Guinsoo Kasadin Set 1 that basically made your frontline unable to use ability, Dragon Trait that maked them invincible to magic dmg, LW giving 90% ARMOR SHRED, Leona 2 star making AOE Stun that lasted 8 seconds, and Yordle trait giving 60% chance to dodge any incoming damage 💀💀

[@victorescobar7437]

This helped me get more of the meta shift over the course of TFT. I don't think its bad if kindred with blue buff wins vs hwei if your playing legitimate carry kindred. I'm hoping theres room for 1 star and 2 star carry comps but i get that feeling of losing your perfect strat board to a lucky roll 2 cost or 1 cost. Thank you for putting so much effort into the game.

[@isaknummer457]

The braum comp 😬

[@odd4353]

mortdog will always be my goat

[@psychoedge]

I miss the old times because I am really good at itemization. But yes, it's way more balanced like that ^^ Also you gotta keep in mind with radiant, artifact and support items we have way more tools to actively buff our champs so the regular items also had to lose in value or those new item types would prove to be overpowered again just like items in set 1.

[@EdisArchive]

I miss OP items

[@michaelzheng2759]

i used to run vanguard jayce to diamond in set 3 it was so broken u just ran d claw vanguard and gunblade and u won the game since no one ran vanguards

[@julian1000]

I really feel items should be able to be unequipped between rounds

[@Oleoay]

And then we add a bunch of random powerful artifacts, and some not so powerful artiacts

[@JanTft]

Unfortunetly this + making champions with boring abilities kinda kills the game

[@kkc72813]

TL;DR Their brain just didn't work at that time.

[@XemnasKH]

I definitely remember when they buffed all the champs and nerfed all the items

[@999darkhorse]

6 noble 3 star fiora d claw bramble warmogs UNIRONICALLY solos literally any board ever (unless she gets set to 1 hp by 2 phantom) shes just unkillable

[@MarsInFlight]

okay but... 2* hwei has 1 trait at most. lets say both have all possible traits active. Kindred has scaling HP, flat AP, and spell crit. Hwei has flat AP and HP and a heal. add that blue buff and I feel like a 3* kindred in that situation SHOULD narrowly beat a 2* naked hwei.

[@Thiago-mo7ch]

No wonder he is the game designer and not twitch chat

[@yedil-sama5851]

Guys, I'm that old and I know that it used to be 100% ap damage reduction, and still not so useful😂 At set 1 every comp had adc

[@MitkaZz]

I lost to a silver with like 2 completed traits but had a 2 star 3 rageblade bard I had like 6 traits zoe carry build So yeah nerf items

[@fee3506]

1:55 average ranked TFT

[@sylphephilippe449]

The problem with weaker items is that champions are now more unbalanced. Before you could make a non meta and bad unit somewhat good because of your luck on the items. Now no matter the items, some units are just straight up better, and here we go for the boring meta that DOESN'T CHANGE for a whole set. The best seasons were the first ones, its been 2 years and we only got bad sets with same comps and meta all over again.

[@xkore1765]

I on the other hand feel like the current game state feels a lot more bland because items don't matter as much compared to the early sets thus the game feels significantly less fun. Maybe this trade wasn't worth making.

[@Paladin_Zero]

At some point items wont even matter lol.

[@dachosens1]

Really that items are still too strong? I feel like hey are in a hood spot and that example is really just that hwei is kinda… bad and needs supporting units to heal If it was 2 star azir i dont know but i would guess the kindred gets wiped

[@Z3D.B0T]

WHO wants back Ga Redemption Zed???? Absolutly right ITS MEEEE

[@anderskjllesdalhansen9580]

Bring back Shrink!

[@ricecake1814]

Itemfight tactics

[@samx5542]

early sets where good. it allowed you to make tactical choices, like the name of the game actually suggests. Doesnt matter now if you build a DC or a warmogs or a thornmail. Game is about what's meta tactical choices don't matter. force what's broken or go bot 4. What's the problem with items beeing strong i'll tell you what the problem is. It gives you tactical options which eventually make the game more skilled ( BUILD MR for magic damage, build armor for tanks, build assasins for backlines, counter assasins with thornmail ). Game is less and less competitive and more and more a fun thing to play with your friends. it is also just not true that early tft worked in a way where it was just slam BIS on a strong champ = you win. That is actually what is is right now. Early sets had many counter options.. additionally if you lower the item value and increase the champion value but then subsequently suck at balancing champions you have basically ruined both aspects of choice making in the game. just allow the game to be what it was, it was beautifull. everyone i know that loved the game early on has quit for the exact same reasons

[@JanTft]

This. Game is becoming more and more braindead. Positioning doesn't matter anymore (almost no backline access), items don't matter because there are no specific items against certain comps (GS and guardbreaker are fake af), even champions don't matter because they don't have unique skills to change the fight (20% armor shred or 10% chill is just pathethic). Basicly the person who RNG's more 3 stars and slightly better items wins because the only thing that matters is damage/tankiness, no strategy involved whatsoever

[@Spin793]

I understand this design philosophy but at the same time I feel like it's a large part of why I've been having less fun with TFT over the years.

[@EdisArchive]

Yeah, at least it's finally properly put into words but sucks it's never going back.

[@theodororeus3950]

Ah ok so thats why TFT feels so washed out lately. I thought they were just trying to make things more balanced by these changes instead of it being a design philosophy choice. I finally understand what I didn’t like about these changes. So items were too good so you make which items you put on the champs basically not matter only star level and which cost. So then traits became too powerful so they made traits basically not matter and people just rush level 9 and put in high cost units. Doesn’t matter which. Then they nerf rushing nine because making choices with items and traits didn’t matter anymore (a problem they created). Now everything is nerfed and the only impactful choice you have is basically the augments and every high rank player knows either you highroll or you fight for 4th place. It’s gg. Thanks riot for making nothing matter. I felt like TFT was way more fun when you could chose which one was your carry by which items you put on and all other champs on the board were just support or there for traits. You felt like you had way more control: yeah someone’s carry might counter your carry but so what? It’s either that or just who econs harder. By picking carry you could have your second carry counter his carry and then it would be positioning or if traits were powerful maybe you could change secondary traits to counter different comps that were left etc etc. Now it’s just Econ hard go specific comp fuck this game it’s zzzzzzzz.

[@EdisArchive]

Yeah TFT has really shifted away from its roots. It's fine if people like it but you can't pretend that TFT is (trying to) doing the same.

[@augustocabralbueno6722]

What is bro blabling about

[@theodororeus3950]

@@augustocabralbueno6722 just rambling about what I dislike. TFT is fine this way for people I guess. I liked being able to superpower champs with items or traits and make them 1v9

[@augustocabralbueno6722]

@@theodororeus3950 thats true since set 1

[@theodororeus3950]

@@augustocabralbueno6722 not in the way it used to be.

[@idfsg533]

i dont think mortdog realises that thresh wins that matchup if they both have the same items such a dumb example

[@RiverNunu]

...no shit? That's not even the point of the example, 2 items should never allow a 1* 1cost to ever impact a 3* 3cost let alone winning it by a large margin. The point he's making is, what if you don't have accees to double cloths + double cloaks and is up against someone who does? Are you just supposed to lose with a significantly more expensive and synergetic comp because broskie got dclaw+bramble on a random unit he brought at stage 2-1?

[@konstantine4817]

The comprehension skills of a TFT player will always amuse me

[@glizzygobbler2810]

Omg it was just like when mythic items were introduced item > skill/champ/mechanics

[@harrisonr6594]

Your tft design and devs are sht simple answer