Why are Sci-fi Aircraft so Weird?

[@enoughothis]

The Naboo Starfighter was the only Star Wars ship to pass the wind tunnel test.

[@theexchipmunk]

But they otherwise usually cheat by using deflector shields and ati-grav engines inside the athmosphere.

[@90lancaster]

I do wonder if the Cloakshape fighter might actually fly too.

[@weldonwin]

@@90lancaster And the Clone Wars Z-95, which was fairly sleek with slightly swept back wings

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

And the star wars a10 warthog ,Arc170 too i suppose​@@weldonwin

[@enoughothis]

@@theexchipmunk, anything will fly if you stick a big enough engine on it, the F-4 Phantom is proof of that

[@jocax188723]

Ace Combat made canopyless cockpits more ubiquitous through their timeline because they set a standard neural interface with Ace Combat 3 and then had to work back up to it in later games. You can see the evolution of the technology, from the XFA-27’s realistic, F-35/X-59-like partially transparent cockpits, to the FALKEN’s full coverage and voice and motion controls, to the FENRIR and ACX originals, which start incorporating brain scanning and thought control, to the full Fly-By-Thought Electro-Neural Synapse Interface (ENSI) systems of AC3. It’s an internally consistent and plausible timeline, stretching from the 1980’s to 2045. I’m slightly disappointed you didn’t mention anything about Macross, because they also played with similar concepts, having to design good looking planes with the addition of a transformation requirement.

[@JoshRiolu]

The YF-21 Sturmvogel!

[@JimGames11746]

Surprised he didn't mention Fenrir since it's center thruster swivels downwards for VTOL flight, and has optical camouflage. Plus it's just damn huge compared to most other planes in AC.

[@minovskyparticles1834]

Spacedock is an uncultured swine

[@lesslighter]

ASF-X Shinden 2 which could realisitically call on to Macross designs as well.... COME ON KAWAMORI just one more AC plane

[@Shadowboost]

Macross is awesome

[@JamesM.1776]

Ace Combat's futuristic designs are meant to allude to how technically the AC series takes place in the same universe as Galaga.

[@CptJistuce]

And also Mister Driller and DigDug!

[@corneliusmaze-eye2459]

What's the significance of that?

[@CptJistuce]

@@corneliusmaze-eye2459 The main significance is that someone at Namco went insane and wrote like two dozen of their games into a single universe. Starting with Ace Combat 3, and ending with... Thunderceptor, of all things. I'd link the UGSF timeline, but I think KZbin eats URLs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It looks like a search for UGSF will bring the timeline's official page up as the first hit.

[@CharlieFoxtrot]

you forgot Bosconian, the space stations in JP AC3 intro cutscene are obviously the same except they're not green. Maybe they turned green when the aliens took it over

[@CptJistuce]

@@corneliusmaze-eye2459 The main significance is that someone at Namco went crazy and wrote a timeline folding a dozen unrelated games into the same universe. The UGSF timeline is truly incredible.

[@therealdavyjones6859]

The ornithopter, for me, is the gold standard of "this ain't 20th (21st) Century Earth, my friends," and Villeneuve's take on the concept is absolutely gorgeous. I've always loved rotary winged aircraft, so, when I attempted to write a science-fiction story in my youth, my protagonists' aerospace gunship was called the star chopper, using a form of cruciform wing (of which I was unaware at the time...I think Sikorsky was still testing it or it had just been scrapped) that would be stopped for high-speed atmospheric transit and spaceflight, but would be used in a ground support role as a traditional helicopter design. (It wasn't incredibly well thought out, but, hey, I was young... :) )

[@owenthompson4071]

An Earlier insectoid ornithopter where the various fighter craft in Lexx the Darkworld chronicals

[@Vinemaple]

I've always hated ornithopters. These dragonfly-based ones, though, they look believable. Also, oddly reminiscent of the technomagical personal fliers in Ghibli's _Howl's Moving Castle_ movie. The wings of both are flexible gossamer, and appear to use elegant engineering to turn a simple oscillating motion into something useful for flight.

[@Baudelier42]

@@VinemapleDon't forget the Ornithopters used by the sky pirates in studio Ghibli's Laputa Castle in the Sky.

[@davidbirr2718]

Jules Verne's _Master of the World_ was about possibly the FIRST (1905) transforming mech, the Terror: "automobile" (ca. 30 feet long); high-speed ship, later revealed to be submersible; and, yes, an ornithopter. Want a wild scene for a movie? Chased by a couple of destroyers (!) on the Great Lakes, the Terror goes over the brink of Niagara Falls at top speed, then spreads its flapping wings and flies away!

[@RorikH]

The new Ornithopters are absolutely gorgeous, though it's a minor pet peeve that Ornithopter means Bird Wing, and if they're insectoid shouldn't they be Entomopters?

[@AlteryxGaming]

Title is apt. If it flies through the air it has to obey the laws of physics as it applies to real life aircraft. AC planes especially like to skirt on the edge of practical aerodynamics

[@thepolishtech1552]

* flashback to seeing videos of people flying backwards through a tunnel *

[@BattleshipOrion]

I'm sorry, but I flat spun up the space elevator in a F22 once...

[@warbrain1053]

Technically, forward swept wings are possible with modern electronics and fly by wire, so it is not that impossible

[@Dunkopf]

One of the fun things to do in the game flyout is figure out how to make sci-fi planes fly

[@fix0the0spade]

Way back at Uni I did a study on AC planes and their aerodynamics. The CFA-44 and XFA-27 are both highly plausible (if very high drag designs) whilst the ADF01/X01 are so unstable as to be impossible to make fly, even accounting for hypothetical fly by wire. The X-02 worked nicely in it's swept wing position, then in the open position it ends up being like the ADF aircraft and turning into a flopping leaf at the slightest angle of attack. That was a fun assignment.

[@CabooseSP]

I will always love Airships no matter how impractical, there's just something so undeniably cool about a giant, flying battleship slowly lumbering into view, engines at full blast.

[@bevanfindlay]

There are some reasons why they make sense in the real world, too. Not having to generate lift is a big advantage on fuel consumption, and allow use at low speeds more easily and safely than something like a helicopter. The two main disadvantages are that they're slow and hydrogen is really flammable (you can also use helium, but it's very limited in supply). With the need to decarbonise air travel and the lack of viable zero-emission fuels, there are several companies looking at airships again, so we may well see them in the future. I wouldn't mind a slower trip if it was more comfortable, cheaper, and cleaner, though the most likely place we might see them is for airfreight. Had the Hindenburg not happened, we might not have stopped using them - which is why airships are such a common thing in alternative timeline fiction.

[@bevanfindlay]

But unfortunately I don't think they make a lot of sense as battleships. 🙁 Some kind of gigantic aircraft carrier though... 🤔 (I'm imagining a future with autonomous short-range drones launched from giant airship carriers).

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

​ Kirov reporting

[@yjlom]

they were historically used as bombers, because they had a higher maximum altitude than winged aircrafts; still today we use weather/spy balloons to that effect

[@gokbay3057]

@@bevanfindlay USN actually tried that and had two airship aircraft carriers. One of which being USS Akron.

[@KingreX32]

You don't know how happy it makes me seeing Spacedock mention Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. That was one of my favourite movies in middle school and I still have it on DVD today. Love that movie.

[@RoonMian]

Then you might wanna check out the old PS2 era game Crimson Skies. It's also dieselpunk and has very cool planes.

[@generalilbis]

​@@RoonMianSince the original PC game and the console based sequel or reboot were both Microsoft Game Studios products? I'd say OG Xbox is the better reference 😅

[@rorythomas9469]

The process is something like this: I want to make my fictional aircraft distinct from real aircraft, but ‘realistic’ and ‘believable’. So I start going through reference books or googling until I find something obscure but real and interesting, which is how you get canards, forward swept wings, top mounted air intakes, downward curving wings (that’s a hypersonic flight concept that’s only ever been used on the XB70 Valkyrie) et etc. As for the presence of VTOL, it reduces friction in storytelling and looks cool, so it’s an easy inclusion

[@jakeaurod]

Some production aircraft have downward dips at the wings, but that's mostly just winglets to minimize drag from wingtip vortices, not for hypersonic waveriding.

[@brodriguez11000]

VTOL is easy when one has enough engine to pull it off.

[@XOXFilmStudio]

​@brodriguez11000 it's not necessarily the engine that's the problem, you can handwave that away with an explanation like "onboard compact nuclear fusion reactor" and "electric jet thrusters". The problem with VTOL in real life is that because there's no air flowing through the jet to cool it down, it gets VERY hot after a few minutes. So a true non-rotor powered VTOL (with, say, electric jet engines) would need to adapt some sort of futuristic cooling technology or operate without getting hot at all.

[@hoojiwana]

The XB-70s wingtips folded downward, they weren't permanently stuck like that as on EDI and the F-302. - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@DavidLee-df888]

The very real TSR.2 had downward angled wingtips.

[@commissarcactus1513]

After spending a week binging KZbin videos on never-built aircraft concepts, I've come to love: 1. Anything really big that somehow flies 2. Blended-wing body aircraft 3. Ground-effect craft I'm also a big future-helicopter appreciator. Coaxial rotors, tiltrotors, that Bell HSVTOL concept, ducted fans, and tiltjets- can't have too many of those.

[@aeroandspace]

I really like how Spike's high-speed interceptor in Cowboy Bebop had a thrust reverser. They're normally such utilitarian tools, it's great to see someone recognize how cool they really are

[@brodriguez11000]

Long as one remembers inertia is still a thing.

[@Vinemaple]

I will never forget the time the clamshell thrust reverser on a 737-200 scared the spit out of my mother. She thought (understandably) that parts of the engine had just broken off!

[@connorwaldman8124]

I agree trust reversal is rare and really cool.

[@Mediocreinput]

The swordfish II?

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Something that Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica do with their space fighters. They have thrusters to turn and maneouver and even turn backwards to fire on pursuers. Or go sideways to fire upon the full length of the enemy craft.

[@TheFearsomeRat]

2:30 the Falken (and similar craft) was actually designed to be used by A.I, the flyable version is actually modified from the A.I piloted version replacing the A.I for a cockpit.

[@lucas10104]

So, an interesting point about the whole gameplay/design distinction you raise with Ace Combat. You mention that missile spam is mostly gameplay while forward swept wings and canards are more design. And that’s totally fair, but I feel like this could be a bit of gameplay informing design. As you mention, canards and such were less common as longer range combat was favored. But the thing is, Ace combat gameplay is explicitly about dogfighting and close range combat. So I imagine that the designers for their super planes might’ve thought about not only what is cool, but also what might be at least tangentially related to making a good dog fighter aircraft

[@jakeaurod]

I suspect that as AAMs and SAMs improve with the addition of AI, IR image guidance, and longer duration powered flight using throttle-able liquid-fueled engines and rotating detonation engines (as opposed to coasting after solid rocket engine burnout), larger aircraft will need to become more maneuverable to avoid them.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

@@jakeaurod There's already practically no way to outmaneuver a missile. The only ways to dodge a missile are to get inside its minimum range, break its lock, or burn off all of its energy. There's no out-turning a missile that can comfortably pull 60+ Gs. As missiles improve, maneuverability actually _decreases_ in importance relative to speed, as speed increases your ability to turn and outrange the missile, while giving your own missiles more energy at launch.

[@brokenmoon3300]

​@@griffinfaulkner3514 The reason why Ace Combat missiles can miss at all without countermeasures in the first place is because those missiles use a naive pursuit guidance system rather than something like proportional navigation that was implemented even all the way back in the very first missiles. Doesn't matter if you can pull harder than the plane if your guidance is inefficient. Missiles will turn harder than planes so long as it has enough energy to do so through its powerful yet short rocket motor, so that only within a certain fraction of a missile's theoretical range does it have the best chance of hitting. The chance of hitting a target and the range at which you can effectively do so also changes depending on which way the target is flying, offering the best parameters when head-on and the worst when flying away. Speed was seen as extremely important in the early days of jet aviation, which is why we got planes like the F-104, F-4, MiG-25, and F-15, which all have design top speeds in the high Mach 2 range. Thing is, very few of these planes are going to be able to sustain such speeds for very long, so a lot of planes are actually designed to optimize transonic flight performance instead, which shows in the F/A-18 and Dassault Rafale having a design top speed less than Mach 2 for example. Maneuverability is still seen as important for fighter aircraft, manned or unmanned, because while the chances of entering a merge can be fairly low against a competent enemy, it is not zero, and you still have to be able to employ your short-range missiles with favorable launch parameters while denying your enemy the same.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

@@brokenmoon3300 That's the exact point I was making, for the most part. And I agree that maneuverability is still important, but sustained speed is becoming more and more of a focus. Part of the reason the F-22 is so terrifying is that insane Mach 1.8 supercruise, it can turn and just motor away at some other aircraft's top speed without even touching the burners.

[@MrWillNeedham]

I think the idea that dogfighting won't happen in future is a mistake. Sure; when a stealth aircraft faces a non-stealth aircraft it can engage safely from long range, but what will happen when stealth faces stealth? If neither plane can lock on to the other at long range, they'll be forced to get closer and use infrared/visual systems instead. That forces them back into dogfight territory.

[@BlazededgeRZ]

Thanks for including us in your video!

[@SolitarySpade_Davon]

Holy hell, it's the anomaly man

[@РоманБекиров-с4м]

Why? *BECAUSE OF THE BELKAN SPACE MAGIC!*

[@Octarinewolf]

Technically the can intercept a spaceship heading for orbit, transport helo in Nanoha StrikerS isn't Belkan. Probably.

[@Appletank8]

​@@Octarinewolf I believe OP was talking about the Belkans from Ace Combat

[@blackjed]

Its always Belka. 😂😂

[@leadontaste7261]

@@blackjed Belka did nothing wrong.

[@blackjed]

@@leadontaste7261 debatable.

[@Tigershark_3082]

One thing I'm surprised we don't see much in near future sci-fi is older airframes being retrofitted with radar, weaponry, engine, and cockpit upgrades sorta like IRL. You'd think folks in the AC universe would've upgraded a Skyhawk II with 9L/M compatibility, wide-angle HUD, maybe a smaller radar (APG-67?), and a few CRT MFDs, and maybe even something like an Allison TF41...

[@rorythomas9469]

Doesn’t sell model kits, I’m afraid.

[@nilok7]

My assumption is it's a cost and/or space issue. You can install upgrades and tuning on your plane, but you can only push a frame so far. It's just not practical to do these modification or overhauls to the whole fleet, and when their ace pilot asks for special tuning, they can only push it so far. Then there's the in universe issue where like AC7, aircraft development is shifting away from manned aircraft and moving to UAVs, so development money and manpower are being deviated away from traditional aircraft development and upgrades. Gameplay-wise, this gives you a tech tree where you inherently know that an older aircraft performs less effectively than a more modern aircraft and gives you a progression system to work through.

[@Tigershark_3082]

@@nilok7 That's kind of the thing though: oftentimes it can be cheaper than a whole new fleet, depending on the aircraft. This happened with Argentina (which bought refurbished and upgraded USMC A-4Ms in the late 1990s), as well as multiple other countries doing the same with their F-5s, F-4s, even a fair number of older 4th Gens.

[@samronin1141]

I suspect that licensing becomes a costly issue if you explore a theme like that too far. Not to mention the issues with then needing DoD or regional equivalent permission to portray that military. See Independence Day 2 needing a DoD acceptance/clearance even though their version was arguably nothing like present day. Two franchises covered in this video did do some though. The Anime movie Patlabor 2 has a misinfo scene where a F16/F2 is shown with more F22 like wings and tail surfaces which is part of that films USAF/Navy and not flown by the JSDF. Ace Combat 3 was set further ahead then the other titles and had a lot of current aircraft modified into more future styles such as those enclosed cockpits and altered fuselages.

[@katherineberger6329]

@ I know they're not the largest fleets out there, but both Argentina and Singapore refitted their fleets of A-4 Skyhawks as fighters - the latter as the A-4SG Super Skyhawk and the former as the A-4AR Fightinghawk.

[@Tyrranis]

6:12 - Another good example of the "ducted fan rotor" helicopter design is the Orca Gunships from Command & Conquer.

[@Vagabondobiondo]

Those were so sexy. And they were canonically in-universe alongside the A-10 Warthog, which has bulbous jet engine that also cross into the uncanny valley of "That LOOKS like sci-fi..." but it's just real.

[@doggo_woo]

Fan rotors strong enough to lift up an entire mammoth mk 2 (carryall)

[@cleeiii357]

@@doggo_woo I thought Mammoth Mk 2's can only be carried by Orca Dropships since they're too big for Orca Carryalls.

[@doggo_woo]

@@cleeiii357 In cutscenes, maybe but gameplay-wise the carryall lives up to its name by literally carrying all. Dropship in the game unfortunately functions like a weird infantry transport.

[@sgttoothpaste8963]

Coaxial rotors aren't just to eliminate the need for a tail rotor or other anti-torque system! (Ironically most examples IRL and in fiction have tail sections just as long as a single rotor design lol.) The main aim of counter-rotating coaxial rotors is to eliminate the lift imbalance rotors experience at high air speeds, a problem that inherently limits the safe top speed on single rotor helicopters. The imbalance comes from the fact the rotor blades are moving INTO the air stream on one side of the craft, creating more lift, and WITH the air stream on the other side, creating less. Having counter-rotating rotors cancels this effect out and allows a helicopter to achieve higher top speeds.

[@brodriguez11000]

Airwolf should have had coaxial then.

[@Appletank8]

​@@brodriguez11000Technically, Airwolf, having turbojet assistance, doesn't require coaxial for top speed. One experiment in progress is having stubby wings be your lift at speed, turbojet for thrust, and rotors slowed or stopped to reduce drag. Also getting a coaxial heli, or mocking a regular heli up to look like one on the cheap probably wasn't feasible at the time.

[@Vinemaple]

The Russian Kamov company seems to have been the only group that has really invested in researching coaxial rotors, although other designers have tried, and produced things like the Kaman Flying Eggbeater. The stuff Kamov makes nowadays certainly takes full advantage of that layout, at least!

[@Appletank8]

@@Vinemaple I believe Sikorsky tried one with their SB-1 Defiant, though it seems the US is leaning more towards Tiltrotors for VTOL with speed

[@doemacmonkey]

The woman at the start of Airwolf narrates that Airwolf “locked its rotor and transitions to a lifting body at high speed” so retreating blade stall would not have been an issue for it in reality - they just couldn’t pull that off on the screen back then.

[@macroglossumstellatarum5932]

Another historical outlier that's almost never used is the Coleopter. Basically an aircraft with a massive propeller/wing set in the middle, allowing vertical takeoff as a tailsitter. Considered around WWII as an interceptor for protecting specific buildings - no need for an airfield, just plop it on a parking space and you're fine. Like the Snecma Coléoptère, the namesake, or the Focke-Wulf Triebflügel, the most insane interpretation. The latter is briefly seen in Captain America: The First Avenger, but that's pretty much it for media appearances.

[@Mediocreinput]

It is quite obselete and better off to be used in alternate ww2 era or any similar time themes because VTOL is better I can think of Coleopter drones launched from tubes for futuristic settings tho

[@UGNAvalon]

I feel like the tiny ship used in the final standoff of Titan AE might’ve taken inspiration from the coleopter, but then again, it was a spacecraft instead of an aircraft. 🤔

[@HellbirdIV]

@@Mediocreinput Coleopters and other tail-sitters being able to launch from ICBM-style launch tubes gives them a very cool but niche use in "modern/near-future" scifi I think.

[@05Matz]

@@HellbirdIVI have to admit, that is an awesome mental image. The idea of a world that (maybe due to changing threats, alien contact? Some kind of aerial kaiju attacks [dragons/etc.]? I'm no writer.) develops an extremely G-tolerant tail-sitting interceptor (cyborg and/or bio-engineered pilots? drones? magic inertial dampening?) and loads them into protected underground silos in lieu of the original ICBMs, so that a wave of interceptors can launch whenever the threat shows up, regardless of the damage caused in its initial attack. Something like the spin-gravity launch tubes on eg. Babylon 5, but in reverse with sheer brute engine force and/or booster rockets (and possibly some kind of railgun or other mechanism as a 'carrier catapult'). Just imagine the mecha-anime-style sortie sequence for that -- loading and crewing the interceptor in some strange, dark, and otherworldly underground space, big robotic arm rotates the craft into position for attaching to launch rails, rotating alarm lights sweeping over all the machinery all the while, everything retracts out of the way, lighting changes as the camera looks up and up and up at the end of the track, _BOOM_ hatch cover blown, boosters ignite, sparks along launch rails, triumphant music, cut to wide shot, hatch cover still flying through the air in slow motion off to the side as the fighter boosts out and breaks the sound barrier straight up, heading for the alien invasion fleet or whatever (maybe one of those repeated multi-angle shots).

[@mage3690]

@@HellbirdIVon the other hand, coleopters would probably share a lot of design elements with space-based carrier-launched fighters. The most efficient way to pack a lot of fighters into a carrier hull is to make them almost missile-like by design, then stuff them into a honeycomb-like structure on the ship. Which could then influence the design of land-based atmospheric fighters. A hardened airfield could become very similar to a field of missile silos simply because "that's the way we do things in space, why not slightly modify our space fighters and do it that way on the ground? We could even share parts and R&D budgets!"

[@Phlosioneer]

What you mentioned about prototype craft stuffed to the gills gave me a fun idea; what if the main character’s craft was a prototype, and while it was full of cool features, it was also prone to breaking and had a design flaw or weird restriction.

[@fernadogonzalez2940]

Like it was so fast the mc had to have his lungs replaced after the first test flight

[@Appletank8]

Gundam prototypes do have a strange tendency to be just better

[@johnrickard8512]

For example, the Millenium Falcon

[@DavidLee-df888]

A single prototype that only the main character uses... like Airwolf or Blue Thunder? Or even KITT!

[@DavidLee-df888]

@@johnrickard8512 The Falcon wasn't a prototype though, it was a highly modified production YT1300.

[@GaldirEonai]

Regarding the canopy thing: In a number of instances the protected canopy can be jettisoned in case of instrument failure leaving a standard-issue transparent window behind

[@alostbaron781]

Wait really? Where's this mentioned?

[@SlyAceZeta]

This is NOT the case in Ace Combat.

[@jdjGSHBFjh68827]

​@@SlyAceZetaI mean that's exactly why the closed-canopy aircraft are also known as "COFFINs" lol

[@Soguwe]

I love that the weirdness of the F302 is brought up in-universe from time to time Trained fighter pilots need to re-learn flight, the himbo tech-billionaire is in awe of its capability despite knowing on paper what it can do, and the whole arena of flying combat is changed by its existence

[@chriswarr641]

IIRC the f302 doesn't really fly by aerodynamics, it kinda just brute forces its way through the atmosphere with its advanced alien tech engines, anti-grav, and inertial dampening systems.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@chriswarr641always makes me wonder why they so directly copied the deathglider design. Sure, it has that late 90s/early 00s surface design. With sharp edges and angles. But when they have alien tech without the need to intimidate local tribes, they could've gone with everything. Even make a working gateglider.

@@HappyBeezerStudios Possibly a requirement for the antigrav tech that they lifted from the 'gliders. Because if you don't need aerodynamics at all, why bother with wings? Just make a hovering box, like the Puddle Jumper. The only real explanation is that said antigrav system consists of some emitters in the wings that generate a field "canceling out" gravity from the planet, and these emitters need line of sight or at least only a limited amount of stuff in-between to work.

[@mage3690]

​@one good reason you make your thing aerodynamic despite having the best anti-grav tech known to imagination is failure. If your anti-grav gives out at 10k feet, what are you going to do? Having a marginally aerodynamic design means you could glide it to a possibly safe landing. This could easily lead to such goofy decisions as regulations requiring that you land on runways for certain levels of pilot license despite your anti-grav being capable of landing on a dime for safety reasons.

[@James3-5]

I've generally attributed this stuff to the designers of fictional aircraft being designed by people who are not aerospace engineers, but have seen all the cool experimental and conceptual aircraft. You don't need to worry about what the required angle of attack or induced drag factors are for fiction. And that's very fun

[@mitwhitgaming7722]

I wish we would see more sci-fi planes based on the SR-71 Blackbird. It's still the most sci-fi historical plane to me despite being nearly 60 years old.

[@kutter_ttl6786]

The Cobra Night Raven from GI Joe is the most prominent one I can think of. I really wanted one of those when I was a kid.

[@scottfw7169]

It was designed to fit a specific mission's flight profile, so the question is, how often does a sci-fi setting need to have that specific mission fulfilled?

[@darthquigley]

@@scottfw7169It could be adapted to different missions. For example: 1. Fighter. This was actually a real prototype before it was decided that a mach 3 fighter wasn't necessary. What if the Soviet ICBM program failed but they managed to design something like a B-70 instead? 2. Transport. As-is, it could fill the same role as Thunderbird 1 (high speed transport for a single person, who is a member of a secretive organization with an unlimited budget). You could also add a passenger cabin somehow, like X-Men. 3. Platform for air-launched orbital rockets. 4. Use elements of the design on a spaceplane. The engines work pretty well for that purpose in KSP. 5. Design a completely new vehicle with different technology but a similar aesthetic (eg. Naboo Royal Starship)

[@hoojiwana]

Xenonauts has a cool interceptor that resembles it, the X-120 Fury. - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@drewrussell8531]

"The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird - an advanced long-range strategic reconnaissance aircraft capable of mach 3 and an altitude of 85,000 feet!" "... you sure do seem to know a lot about it ...." "DO YOU EVEN READ MY CHRISTMAS LIST?!"

[@toradora1439]

So glad to see you guys expand on your source material to include things like Ghost In The Shell and Ace Combat, but talking about strange or wierd Air Ships and not mentioning any of the Final Fantasy air ships is such a missed opportunity, its almost criminal.

[@ChromaDragon]

Two craft I've always adored are the Havoc and Venom gunships from the (sadly short-lived) G-Police series. Fairly classic helicopter-like frame with a pair of tiltjets (or two tiltjets and a third fixed engine for the Venom), able to fight like an attack helicopter while also being able to mix it up in dogfights with the many more conventional fighters in game.

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

I really want them to do a remake of G-Police in VR. There was a VR tech demo a few years back called Aircar that *really* reminded me of that game and I have had a burning need ever since.

[@Vinemaple]

What I've been saying. When you look at enough different properties, it's tiltable propulsion all the way down. They're like the crabs of fantasy aircraft.

[@trivipesnipe]

Thanks for featuring Sky Captain. That movie is so underrated

[@Klipschrf35]

Don't forget captain sky hawk game

[@RiceWD05]

Because Rule of Cool and Awesome. I will admit I love me some forward swept wings

[@jakeaurod]

These seem unrealistic, except they work. While he mentioned the prototypes, he failed to mention the one production aircraft I've heard of, the Fantrainer. Although, to be fair, the Fantrainer doesn't look forward swept because the angle is low and might only be the centerline, while the leading edge may be straight.

[@GaldirEonai]

The problem with all the forward-swept wing designs so far has been that at high speeds a _lot_ of force is exerted on the wingtips. Enough to cause significant fluttering or outright breakage. As such wings would have to be specially reinforced (leading to more weight) and/or frequently replaced (maintenance and logistics nightmare, but a very good deal for the manufacturer :P). They have amazing performance at lower speeds but nobody cares about that these days when it comes to air-to-air combat.

[@sethb3090]

The worse it is at going straight, the better it is at turning

[@SgtBeltfed]

One correction, stealth has been around since the A-12 (the SR-71's direct predecessor) first flew in 1962, if not earlier. The A-12 and SR-71 were both early attempts at stealth aircraft, but going at Mach 3 ionizes the air above the aircraft, generating a good radar reflection. The aircraft were well known for being spotted by eye before the base radar would pick them up on landing though. So, it was established well before the book, Firefox was published in 1977.

[@toddsilverwolfe]

The helicopters from the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie "The 6th Day" have a helicopter wing blade that can become fixed for jet-powered flight, and can be remote controlled as well. Was one of my favorite aircraft concepts growing up.

[@Celphied13]

Yes! When I saw 8:30 that craft was the first thing that came to mind!

[@A_N1ne]

my thought as well

[@aramilneogi2275]

I came down to see if anyone mentioned that one...And because I would have to search for the name..

[@ApocGuy]

whispercraft ;)

[@deathrex007]

Yo, isn’t The 6th Day have something to do with a clone? If so, then holy shit you just mentioned something from my childhood. I love that concept as well.

[@elucid07]

The Super Sylph version of Yukikaze is one of my FAVOURITE scifi aircraft. Was delighted to see the standard Sylph in the first clip of this vid!

[@GabrielGABFonseca]

I'll always be a simp for flying wings and lifting bodies. I just think they're neat!

[@mattstorm360]

I think my favorite fighter is project wingman's SP-34R. The main super plane is PW-MK1 but i love the Icarus Experimental Ballistic Airframe. First off it has an enclosed cockpit, the wing tips pull into them selves for super sonic fight. They don't fold, they get pulled in. The elevator swings forward changing the shape of the wing as well. It's also a gun plane that lacks ANY missiles. You want to kill something, you got to do it WW2 style.

[@SpottedHares]

I don’t where you would stick it but those crazy rotating disk craft form The Incredible. A circle main body that the pilot sits in while the rotor spins around the craft. It very much reminds me of the experimental VZ-9 which is such an under used aircraft essentially in SciFy as it’s a literal flying saucer.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

I feel like those were based on a real life ground vehicle called a monocycle, which rides on a single wheel like a unicycle does, except that it places the rider, engine, and the rest of the vehicle inside the wheel, rather than on top.

[@planetwomanizzi]

The Skyward series by Brandon Sanderson has the coolest semi-realistic aircraft I've seen. Its starfighters mix hypersonic peristaltic aircraft with anti-gravity tech AND a force-field grappling hook. These let the fighters do VTOL, supermaneuverability, and Attack on Titan type swinging off asteroids, falling debris, teammates, or even enemies. Sanderson had two fighter pilots help him design them. Honestly, you could do a whole video on them. The books have great illustrations.

[@matt_1984_]

Didnt even mention one of the most awesome Fighter Jets in all of Sci Fi... the VF 1 Valkyrie from Macross

[@AlRoderick]

Yeah, but that's a little bit outside the scope, it's a very conventional looking plane until it turns into a robot, and so it's not a case of weird looking sci-fi airplane, and also technically it's a space fighter. Now the prototypes from macross plus, those definitely fit the bill, but they're both based on real life prototype aircraft.

[@xXManhattanProjectXx]

The YF-19 and YF-21 in M+ are more viable as an actual aircraft than a VF-1 tho weirdly enough. No horizontal stabilator on the VF-1 really limits its airframe. Sure you can say Thrust Vectoring, but how well will that work on low thrust scenarios.

[@koimananana]

Nah the VF-1 is aerodynamically weird ngl, i prefer the newer sleeker VF-31J/A/AX, though AX is just Ace Combat extreme

[@xXManhattanProjectXx]

@@koimananana VF-31's are sexy as all hell. If the YF-29 didn't exist, I'd say it's the best Variable fighter design to date.

[@kelvinchewjw]

space dock gotta do at least an episode on macross, I mean sure there's the whole HG thing with SDFM and DYRM you could skip that and straight to macross plus

[@Doppler-hh5nt]

So glad that Yukikaze and Patlabor got clips in this, both have some of my favorite mechanical, and especially aeronautical design

[@wyldweasel4746]

Both airframes for Yukikaze are gorgeous

[@VanquisherRX8]

Yep, was stoked to see the Mave feature - still comes to mind today when I think of "high tech figher"

[@AvArIeNmArKu4]

Don't worry he is not one of us he's from the people that didn't understand the concept of Yukikaze and why FRX-00 / FFR-41MR Mave / FRX-99 Rafe look that way

[@g-nice_pimp]

​@@VanquisherRX8 funny thing also is that we're not that far from ai enabled warplanes if you look at the latest programs the us government is running

[@thetiredbiker3652]

Also yukikaze has one of the best 'badass pilot' moments when he backs the plane off the carrier and then 'hovers' it alongside before taking off into the sky.

[@Camyoureyes]

I still love the goofy duct rotor Orcas from the OG Command & Conquer games. (Speaking of Westwood, their Dune game was my first intro to the universe and I really loved the weird swallow-like flight animations of the ornithopters from the Dune RTS games)

[@whatthefilmwtf7171]

Am glad you add the name of the properties because I have been interested in shows from other videos from other channels but not known the names

[@kaltenstein7718]

6:42 Ghibli's Castle in the Sky and Howl's moving castle also had some of those, although both are more of a steampunk setting than actual scifi. But while on that subject: Their first ever movie Nausicaä of the valley of the wind has some great fixed wing aircraft that resemble insects more than birds and manage to look futuristic and ancient at the same time.

[@steemlenn8797]

Oh yes, I love how that film manages to both look futuristic and ancient!

[@TukaihaHithlec]

Ghibli has fantastic fictional aircraft, which fittingly shouldn’t surprise anyone

[@ferrusmanus184]

My favorite sci fi aircraft are the ones that are realistic or at least believable, like the VTOL's from Edge of Tomorrow. One of the only examples of "The rule of cool" being preserved along with realism.

[@conservativedemocracyenjoyer]

Common EoT W

[@silviadragoness5904]

Happy to see some _Sentou Yousei Yukikaze_ footage in there; it's one of my favorites. Would have been nice if it had gotten an explicit mention in the voiceover.

[@RavenWolffe77]

The "death glider" wing design from Stealth isn't weird at all, actually. It's because the airframe is both waveriding and capable of plasma stealth. The downward wingtip design redirects supersonic shockwaves to improve lift (definitely needed given the hyper-low-aspect wings). This is a real-life technology, and has been used on several supersonic aircraft like the XB-70 Valkyrie. The rest of the airframe is designed to exploit hypersonic plasma formation to defeat advanced radar systems, which is also real but still EXTREMELY experimental as of yet.

[@imperialguardsman135]

plasma only absorbs radar waves because it acts like a blackbody at their frequency. This means that while it might absorb hostile radar sweeps, it's also lighting the aircraft up like a christmas tree with its own emissions. Plasma stealth is a meme propagated by russians coping about Khinzal being shit

[@hoojiwana]

All good points, but the XB-70s wingtips aren't permanently stuck in that downward position! - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@Sm00k]

​@@hoojiwanaso you're saying, variable geometry is functional?

[@leadontaste7261]

bruh can't even write the missile name right @@imperialguardsman135

[@imperialguardsman135]

@@leadontaste7261 fly your hypermeme past a patriot battery first, maybe I'll respect it enough to learn the name then

[@The_Frustrated_Optimist]

On the topic of stuff too new to percolate down into fiction yet, I really like the concept of toroidal propellers. They look very odd, but appear to be more efficient and quiet for both water and air purposes.

[@megagamernick9883]

So my father studied engineering before becoming a civilian pilot and I like to design my own aircraft and I ask him questions. The thing with forward swept wings wasn’t just missiles but rather the disadvantages of forward swept wings outweighed the advantages which is why the F-22 and F-35 have trapezoidal wings. Also Canards don’t offer that much in advantage in maneuverability plus it hampers stealth more than a traditional tail/stabilators. Variable swept wings wings were considered for a Navy version of the F-22 to but that went nowhere. Sorry for the info dump just wanted to say stuff on the Ace Combat planes to explain some of the design choices. Also while missiles are more prevalent it should be noted maneuvers and dogfighting should never be written out as we forgot about it in Vietnam and that actually led to the creation of Top Gun so the Navy could train their aviators to properly deal with the Vietnamese MiGs

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

Fun fact for you, Navy Phantoms had the best kill/loss ratio out of all three services, despite the fact that the Navy variant never carried an internal cannon of any kind. Doctrine, training, and a better version of the Sidewinder more than made up for the tiny chance of lining up a gun shot against a 600mph MiG.

[@megagamernick9883]

@@griffinfaulkner3514 is that why they had to create top gun because their kill records showed at one point we were loosing more fighters than we were killing them? And that we later put guns back on the navy phantoms? Besides my point was that they were still dogfighting just replace missiles with guns.

[@megagamernick9883]

@@griffinfaulkner3514 yeah no. That was because we had to go back and teach our pilots to properly maneuver to actually line up a shot. Plus missiles were notoriously difficult to use against the subsonic MiG-17s as well the fact the Navy put gun pods on their F-4s until they put them back on. Yes missile are more likely to score a kill but removing guns cost the U.S. early in the war till we started to teach our pilots to actually dogfight again.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

@@megagamernick9883 I'll say it again. _Navy Phantoms never had an internal gun._ Gun-armed Phantoms accounted for only 16.5 kills across all variants and services. Training and better doctrine made the difference, not the gun. It helps that the Navy's Sidewinder variants had a cooled seeker, proximity fusing, and a larger continuous-rod warhead, dramatically improving performance.

[@megagamernick9883]

@@griffinfaulkner3514 but it was deemed necessary to put them back the navy had the highest kill to death ratio but the Air Force claimed the most kills over all. So I will say it again for clarity. Guns aren’t the primary killer, but the served an important role as a back up when missiles weren’t viable

[@yaki_ebiko]

Weird propulsion nomination: The fighter jet from Psychopass movies, It's a turboprop/jet hybrid where the prop extend out during cruising and the jet part cuts off for long range endurance, but when it needs performance the propeller feathers and fold back and the second stage jet core behind the turboprop fires up, very cool idea. Edit: most scene of the plane is in Sinners of the System Case 2, the new providence movie had some as well.

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

MGS4 has attack helicopters with Canard Rotor/Wings, the only ones iv seen in fiction.

[@jocax188723]

You’ll be interested to know those are based off the Boeing X-50, which was in development at the time. There are a couple other examples riffing off the same idea of rotor/wing, the most famous of which is the Whispercraft from ‘The Sixth Day’.

[@tommyb8706]

I also love MGS4's slider drone.

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

@@jocax188723 Arrr yes the sixth does have them, forgot about that.

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

@@tommyb8706 It’s pretty shocking how forward thinking that game is, and Metal Gear in general.

[@aldraone-mu5yg]

@@jocax188723 Oh yeah, forgot about sixth day.

[@2010ngojo]

The super sylph is one of my all time favorite fictional aircraft designs. It's sleek with a nice blend of futuristic and current aircraft designs.

[@admiralcasperr]

You've forgot about the Skyranger and the Anti-UFO Jet. The former has a rotor-jet combination for vtol and jet cruise and the latter is the brute force approach to beating superior tech. Both neat ideas.

[@the_senate8050]

The Firestorm with its little UFO shaped shieldy bits has top tier 'we stole all your tech, what are you going to do about it' energy.

[@tba113]

I kind of wish there was an intermediate step between the 'Raven' jet fighter and the 'Firestorm' totally-not-a-UFO fighter. A couple Foundry projects to boost the Raven's speed or countermeasures, maybe, something like that, in the vanilla game.

[@Vinemaple]

All XCOM skyrangers are essentially brute-force approaches to _heavier-than-air flight!_

[@rakaydosdraj8405]

The classic XCOM: UFO DEFENSE Skyranger was basically a space shuttle. even once you had the Lightning, the fact that it could carry 14 rookies was still useful. The original Avenger from UFO DEFENSE meanwhile surpassed OFO tech and went straight to Star Trek. (The X com 2 reinterpretation seems to be just a crashed alien battleship, repaired. Boring.)

[@Vinemaple]

@@rakaydosdraj8405 Aargh, once again, I forgot about the originals! I only meant the Firaxis Skyrangers... I wouldn't count XCOM 2's Avenger as an aircraft, but it's almost unrecognizable as a medium-size alien craft. The Shen family put a whole lot of vectorable ducted fans on it, instead of repulsors, for some reason.

[@CRS253]

I love the Ace Combat music playing in the background. Anytime Ace Combat gets brought up, I'm there. You had me at the thumbnail.

[@BaxterAndLunala]

For fictional VTOL aircraft that make use of rotors, I can name the Orca Carryall, the Nod Harpy, and the Nod Venom patrolcraft in the C&C franchise. The reason I listed the Carryall by its full name is because GDI uses it in Tiberian Sun while Nod uses it in Tiberium Wars/Kane's Wrath.

[@bertugbertu1596]

And normal orcas as well

[@BaxterAndLunala]

@bertugbertu1596 Oh yeah, Orca Fighters and Orca Bombers use ducted fans as well. The Orca Mk. I in Tiberian Dawn used more of a typical VTOL type jet engine, while a similar engine was on the Orca Gunship Mk. III in Tiberium Wars/Kane's Wrath.

[@LordInsane100]

While the Nod Harpy does use a rotor, it should probably be noted that as seen in cutscenes it's a straight-up normal helicopter (the TS engine had issues that meant helicopter rotors wouldn't work, which is why they don't show up in-game; they fixed that for RA2).

[@MaxRavenclaw]

I pretty much adored all the aircraft GDI had in TS, from the Dropship, to the simple transport, to the "I have no idea how these achieve lift" ORCA Fighters. Though honestly I like most GDI Aircraft from CnC1 to TW.

[@Safe117]

This is the first video I have seen of your channel and absolutely loved it, most likely because I love aircraft and Sci-fi fantasy, needless to say SUBSCRIBED!!!

[@kommandantgalileo]

Ace Combat mentioned!

[@lukasvillar9328]

"It's time"

[@ThunderBirb]

1 MILLION LIVESSS!!!!!

[@EtanRedKnight]

SALVATION!!!!

[@cac_deadlyrang]

*GO DANCE WITH THE ANGELS*

[@leadontaste7261]

*HAPPY ROBOTIC SCREECHING*

[@sockatume]

I think Thunderbirds 1 and 2 deserve a mention here, particularly as they offer us an example of someone decades ago offering a vision of what then-future aircraft would look like. Lots of VTOL, lots of rocketry, pivoting and front-swept wings, lifting bodies… some of those things never went out of style in SF.

[@ohauss]

The "general shift away from dogfights to long-range missile combat" is a rather peculiar US perception. When you're interested in power projection into foreign airspace, long-range missile combat is of interest. When your primary interest is country defense, the borders are relatively close for a jet fighter, and what you really need is short-ranger interception, then dogfighting ability is still very much pertinent, since the situation of scrambling right under an intruder's posterior is much more likely.

[@fluffly3606]

Funny thing is even _for_ power projection into foreign airspace, rules of engagement, EW and the flight profile of BVR missiles can bring the range close enough that devolving into a dogfight is plausible. The main mitigating factor is probably pilots and strategists understandably wanting to avoid proverbial knife fights where possible (as they have since the beginning--refer the Red Baron's advice and how most engagements in WW2 were classic boom-and-zoom attacks)

[@soleenzo893]

The Dropshi)ps in Dune using a mix of Ballutes/inflatable pockets but also Anti-Gravity or thrusters (no plume visible, but also no explanation), was such a cool refreshing take ona futuristic yet logical use of airship, or at least nearly lighter than air vehicles.

[@LordInsane100]

Tiberian Dawn seems a very obvious example of this: it uses some of this 'future aircraft' tropes on the one aircraft that is developed during the game, creating a very strong contrast between the Orca's weirdness and the real-world helicopters and airplanes being… real-world helicopters and airplanes as filtered through the game's graphics and gameplay.

[@bevanfindlay]

I was hoping someone would mention C&C (and am a little disappointed it didn't get a mention in the video). The Orcas are so neat, and definitely fit in on this list. Some of the later entries in the series have weird aircraft too, such as the Banshees from Tiberian Sun (which I think had slightly down-swept wings if I recall correctly?)

[@LordInsane100]

@@bevanfindlay The Banshee depends on the render, unfortunately, as there seems to have been several slightly-different ones used, but at least one does seem to have a very, very slight inward curve upward on the down side. Of course, the Banshee seems deliberately designed to look like the mid-point between a 'future aircraft' and an outright flying saucer (especially given non-human technology was part of its in-universe design process). It should probably be noted the Harpy is actually a perfectly normal helicopter, as seen in cutscenes, it's just that TS's engine had issues keeping it from rendering rotors so they aren't seen in-game (they fixed that in RA2's iterated fork of the engine).

[@RavenAdventwings]

I think the reason helicopters in earlier C&C games are quite odd is primarily due to engine limitations. In short, the engine can't render rotor blades. Thus the game designers have to create aircrafts that can fly like a helicopter, but have no exposed rotor blades to animate. This is true from Tiberian Dawn up until Tiberian Sun. Which gave us the classic Orca Gunship family of aircrafts for GDI. (Love Tiberian Sun: Firestorm, though. It's a shame the engine is so constrained.) With the introduction of the RA2 engine, they can now properly render animated rotor blades for their helicopters. Heck, even the original RA2 had some dodgy rotor spin animation, which wasn't properly fixed until Yuri's Revenge.

[@mekboy7403]

@@RavenAdventwings Pretty sure they just wanted more advanced stuff for the GDI because they had helicopters back in Tiberian Dawn. NOD had some kind of attack helicopter and both sides used chinooks. The rotor blade animations were a little janky but they were there.

[@RavenAdventwings]

@@mekboy7403 It's been a while since I played Tiberian Dawn, so i probably forgot about that.

[@darthhodges]

I was reminded of the dual function helos in the Schwarzenegger movie "The Sixth Day". They look just a little concepty compared to modern helos but could engage jet engines mid flight and retract the rotors backwards for minimum drag. You also see them going back the other way, reengaging the rotors mid flight after having used the jets for a high speed run.

[@martinjrgensen8234]

Weird? You mean cool af. Scifi aircraft episode and ZERO mention on Macross? Could you do an episode on Masamune Shirows mechanicsl designs?

[@TheVeritas1]

Thanks for the shout out to Macross/Robotech.

[@matteste]

For me, I hope to see some Muv-Luv or more Gundam references some day.

[@KadenSlinker]

⁠@@TheVeritas1I noticed that they didn’t mention Robotech either. Maybe because they were technically a mecha series rather than an aircraft series. Still like the show though.

[@FaithFalkner]

Thanks!

[@MihzvolWuriar]

You've missed a *huge opportunity* to speak about the greatest aircraft of them all, Ace Combats "X-49 Night Raven" and it's successor XR-900 Geopelia, a "flying wing" aircraft(something not mentioned here at all, and why is that?) that's made with extremely durable materials, extremely maneuverable, capable of reaching close to mach 5 with a ion engine, with an estate of the art COFFIN system (also not mentioned here) so advanced, that you need implants to pilot it. I think you should've mentioned a bit more of AC, aircrafts like the Fenrir, the Radicals, all of them exploring some extreme form of tech, but of course you could make a video only about the series, and I'm glad some great Aircraft settings were used here. Oh, and you forgot one big troppe on Ace Combat, backwards fired missiles.

[@SlyAceZeta]

Backwards-firing missiles were featured on the Gelb Team Su-37s in Ace Combat Zero with zero explanation on how it worked. That mechanic was not exclusive to the fictional designs.

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

Blue Thunder was actually a [heavily] modified French _Alouette III_ helicopter. It is said that pilots were sometimes in trouble to fly the thing because the mods made the helicopter very unbalanced (too heavy on the front part) and they made the machine really difficult to fly in some conditions. I don't remember if the kit applied to Airwolf (might be an Agusta A109 or something similar) had the same effects on it, but at a quick glance, the Airwolf looks more balanced between rear and front ends, so it might have been less a problem for this one.

[@NitroJunkie626]

Just a correction here: Blue Thunder was a modified Gazelle, not an Alouette lll. Although, the stock Gazelle looks a lot like an Alouette, so they’re easy to mix up. Airwolf was a Bell 222 with mods that were removed after the show ended. Said Bell 222 went on to be used as an air ambulance in Europe until it was destroyed in a crash that killed its crew, shortly after delivering a patient to the hospital.

[@nightrunnerxm393]

On the Ace Combat front, ever since the X-02 Wyvern first showed up in AC4, I've looked at it and gone "That's all lovely, but did no one think about what air pressure at supersonic speeds is gonna do to the interior wing space when it folds it's wings like a switchblade?!" The _very second_ you open up the leading edges of those wings to fold up the outboard wings you're gonna have metric frak-tons of drag suddenly slam into the airframe, tearing off those moving leading edges, while also ramming it all into an extremely confined space that _will_ cause those wings to...explode. The X-02 should drop from the sky in very pretty metal confetti, at that point. Not to mention what reversing the airflow on the switchblading portion of the wings would do to your lift...assuming that, again, aerodynamic forces didn't just rip 'em out of the fuselage... I mean, there's a _reason_ the F-14 and F-111's swing-wings went _backward_ for high-speed flight, not _forward!_ I mean, sure, gameplay-wise, the X-02 is fantastic. It would _never_ fly in the real world. In any sense of that phrase. The ADF-01 Falken and the ADFX-01 Morgan, on the other hand...Those...might. Though the Falken's under-body rudderlet and the way it opens up a bunch of seriously non-aerodynamic surfaces to fire it's laser does concern me more than it's use of screens and cameras to produce visuals for the pilot. But then, I've seen so many cockpit screen in humongous mecha shows that's just old hat to me at this point.

[@anunax]

You can somewhat justify Wyvern's swing wing design by the fact that this sweep is performed long before X-02 reaches supersonic. Taking AC7 as an example, wings and other aerodynamic surfaces fold at 700 km/h which is still fast but definitely not supersonic

[@varnix1006]

​@@anunax Even then the swing wing probably will cause some turbulence due to how they move, the Wyverns probably has some of the most advanced computer (Belkan witchcraft) in order to maintain balance while switching mode.

[@trevelyandovah8479]

You appear to have failed to factor for Belkan witchcraft

[@leschroder7773]

​@@varnix1006 erusian sorcery*

[@Arch_Twisted]

2:50 The X-02 Wyvern. I remember using that in AC Zero and AC 6. It's my favorite fictional aircraft. It's basically a SU-37 with folding wingtips, and the two back rudders (or whatever) can flatten out. Love that thing so much.

[@QuintonMurdock]

6:46 I have like…a crush on the ornithopters in dune. Like aesthetically

[@christian-michaelhansen471]

I was impressed that you chose to include the Russian “Firefox”. In an era before stealth was a thing, when the SR-71 Blackbird was as exotic as any plane of its time, there was the fictional Firefox. As a kid, to see a Vietnamese era Ace, played by Clint Eastwood, be smuggled deep into the Soviet Union was edge of your seat theatre! To watch the aforementioned Ace have an attack of what today we refer to as PTSD, but then was called ‘Shell Shock’ and nearly miss his window to board the jet and get away, was hold your breath excitement! Thank you for including this fine example of “Futuristic Aircraft” in your You-Tube effort.

[@blackduke3471]

Imagine having planets with different atmospheres, meaning different aerodynamics for aircraft, what a pain in the ass 😅

[@fidel-3470]

That would be an interesting engineering feat - because realistically it's like trying to design an submarine and aircraft all in one, just different pressure levels. For a scifi game this could be a bit like rock-paper-scissors in terms of how you optimize your craft for space, light atmosphere (including nebula), or thick atmosphere.

[@CasabaHowitzer]

Any space ship with a large focus on atmospheric maneuverability seems like a bad idea. But I suppose they could be atmosphere-only aircraft transported from one planet to the other by a larger ship.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

@@CasabaHowitzer Not necessarily. Wings could easily have internal fuel tanks swapped for radiators, RCS thrusters mounted at the wingtips have additional leverage, and a low frontal area reduces both aerodynamic drag and your target profile. The end result wouldn't look too different to something like the FB-22 or NGAD concepts.

[@CasabaHowitzer]

@@griffinfaulkner3514 the difference is that none of these components require any lift on a pure spacecraft. Adding wings instead of fuel tanks, 'RCS arms' etc. is a huge mass penalty, especially on a smaller craft. In terms of stealth and being a smaller target, surfaces that have to generate lift are obviously a disadvantage. In real stealth fighters, the aircraft has to be shaped in a way that minumizes frontal area, generates lift, and doesn't reflect radar. This is very complicated and expensive; removing the lift component would greatly simplify the design. There's also the inefficiency of rockets compared to jet engines. A craft that is designed to operate both in atmosphere and in space will need to use some kind of propellant (instead of air) or adopt a hybrid system, both of which add mass. This puts it at a disadvantage against dedicated atmosphere-only aircraft. Basically, it's worse at being a fighter than a fighter and worse at being a spaceship than a spaceship.

[@bevanfindlay]

While a neat idea in concept - and I love the thought of anything designed by applying realistic science to a non-real scenario - aerodynamics are going to be pretty similar regardless of the planet. About the only two things that I can think of that would significantly affect design are the density of the atmosphere and whether or not you can use it as an oxidiser. For the former, generally if you can get something that's slippery in one atmosphere, it'll be that in any other (given some differences with turbulence etc). If it's a spaceplane, then it'll already be able to fly without using air intakes, if needing a bit more onboard tank storage for the oxygen (though, wake me when you see a sci fi where fuel efficiency or storage is ever a concern...) 😉

[@Woodsy375]

The King Raven from Gears always had a special place in my heart. It looked amazing crashing constantly

[@RookFox]

Ace Combat 🫡

[@dirtypaws6328]

I miss OLDSKOOL ace combat

[@RookFox]

@@dirtypaws6328 nice pfp, love cross foxes

[@Spartaner251]

man no word about Crimson Skies?! the bog standard Sylph from Yukikaze looks awesome, even with conformal fuel tanks.

[@johannsolo9054]

I just love the design of the FFR-41MR Mave because it shows how aggressively the Fairy Air Force had to evolve to make a monster fighter plane to combat the JAM. Those wings just scream pin-turn maneuverability, and in the books and shows the jet has so much thrust that it literally rockets off the runway into the sky. It takes that familiar fighter design and pushes it to the far horizon of what someone would imagine a future super jet would look like. And it does so while looking so freaking sick

[@whyjnot420]

There is a design that I never see people use in fiction. Flettner rotors. Technically speaking, they can actually work as an airfoil irl. In practice, not-so-much, but the math is there. I just figure that since nobody ever sees them and when they do, they are on proper actual ships. So they could be used if someone wanted to go with a very different aesthetic for some dieselpunk or something, but still have some part of it based on an esoteric yet real bit of kit.

[@wenzler3052]

I've been working on a little alien civilization project for a couple years now. One of the main things I've been working on recently is their commercial space travel industry, which heavily relies on SSTO space planes. Maybe a space plane video in the future? I know they somewhat fall under aircraft but they have so many other features that make them unique, and it's something we've seen a fair bit of in sci-fi.

[@illusiveelk2558]

It might sound weird, but one of my favorite tropes is floating Wing / canard designs. Designs in which pieces of wings, control surfaces, and sometimes even engines are not directly attached to the craft itself, but rather floating in place via mag lock or something. It kind of makes it super cool when you don't have a physical mechanical connection between them, and air can just flow right in between things. Some of my favorite examples of this would include the racing ships from Redout 2, or the Sungem skin for the Railjack from Warframe.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

Props for showing the Yukikaze towards the end. That was a really beautiful anime in its art. Also, for a reeealy big throwback. In the 80s there was a cartoon series called MASK where the leader of the baddies flew a helicopter shaped a bit like an apache that could fold its rotor and stow it in the upper fuselage then fold down wings from its tail strut and fly like a jet. All while in flight and thus defying the laws of gravity

[@KylianStark]

i love how each video you make is both informative and visually appealing!

[@Dragnfly_mynamewastaken]

Damn this was a well-timed video. I was just working on some choppers for a thing. Pooling all this inspiration in one place with your comments helped a lot!

[@katze316]

IIRC one of the main problems with forward-swept wings is flexing at high speeds. All wings flex and twist as the aircraft maneuvers, but because the forward-swept wings extend forward of the mounting point, during high-speed maneuvering they tend to increase the angle of attack, causing a feedback loop which can lead to wing shearing. Compare this to rear-swept wings, where they flex back into line with the angle of attack, functionally reducing it and giving them greater tolerance for high-speed turns. Hold up a notecard or piece of paper in front of a fan- if you hold it from the front (rear-sweeping) it's more or less stable; but if you hold it from the back...

[@Vinemaple]

Very satisfying to hear someone stand up and say this out loud, Hujiwanna! Gonna fight for acknowledgement that Osprey-like or vaguely Osprey-adjacent tiltjets and tilt-thrusters are one of the most common types. I'm talking about what the surface militaries in Evangelion use, the multipurpose air transports the aliens in Battlefield Earth use, _Serenity_ 's atmospheric flight mode, the human military craft in Avatar. If you squint, you could also include the repulsor-powered transports that ADVENT reinforcements use in XCOM 2. All basically adapted from the Osprey concept and its many predecessors that suffered development hell in the '70s and '80s. Not that any of these are particularly "authentic" or "realistic," but i insist they are possibly the most common if you include all the obscure or failed properties. Also, forward-swept wings are also a dead end because nobody's ever managed to make them practical. Their performance is too counterintuitive and unstable for a human to fly without constant computer assistance.

[@05Matz]

Forward wings might be a great visual shorthand for 'this craft is designed to be flown by robots/aliens' though, by the same token.

[@Vinemaple]

@@05Matz That... that is a really great bit of worldbuilding, there!

[@KevinSmithGeo]

One particularly rare form of scifi aircraft is the vacuum airship. In principle, they would be able to be far more efficient than airships that use lifting gas. The hard part is making them strong enough to not collapse while also being light enough. They appeared in The Diamond Age where they used nanotech supermaterials to support themselves. I think some of the vehicles in Dune (2021) are meant to be vaccum airships as well, seemingly using some form of dynamic structure (probably Holzman field based)

[@sanikku7359]

I’ve been researching fictional aircraft for a game I’m developing as of late. And i think a interesting thing that I noticed which not many consider is Mecha when discussing Sci-Fi aircraft. The term “機体” (Kitai) in Japan, which translates to Airframe, is used to refer to both Aircraft and Mecha. Many fictional jets and mecha designs in Japan follow similar rules. Series like Ace Combat and Gundam often share designers and storytelling tropes, and series like Macross exist. What’s fascinating is that Japanese designers strive to make their “kitai” as realistic as possible while still being fantastical. Despite their flaws, some Gundam designs, such as the Zaku Speed or the Zeta Plus, look like they could genuinely fly. But to me these designs provide an intriguing lesson in aircraft design: to create an aircraft that appears flight-capable, you don’t need a conventional design. Instead, focus on what makes it recognizable to those knowledgeable about the subject. The Intakes on the Zeta Plus, the F-14 style wing system. Sleek aerodynamic shapes with minimal flat surfaces on the Zaku Speed or the Gundam GT. Ace Combat, by applying this same Mecha design philosophy but restricting itself to true and true planes, ends up with some of the most believable fictional aircraft in any media. I believe the guideline of ensuring everything would work in theory and making it look cool is a good approach to designing fictional vehicles. Just a rumor, but some of these Aircraft were apparently even wind tested by the developers. Another good example of a series that followed these footsteps that isn't from the Japan is "Project Wingman". While I don't think they were as indepth as Project Aces, its titular super plane takes elements from Gundam 00 with its cordium GN drives for thrusters, as well as the giant Air ships seen in the game donning the same propulsion tech. Western designs in comparison often have blocky flat surfaces that would create a lot of drag or random elements that make no sense or too complex geometry with random stuff tacked on. From the top of my head because I've been playing it recently; the Eagle fighter from helldivers as a design is completely horrible! And while mainly spaceships, star war's aircraft are just horrid in my eyes too. Of course, eastern design isn’t flawless either. If I could rewrite history to change the look of Gundam's Core fighter or Gaw carriers I would (actual aircraft not mechs). However, other mecha series like Patlabor and Sci-Fi media like Ghost in the Shell have excellent fictional aircraft designs. TL;DR: The Mecha design philosophy used in Japanese media is an effective approach to fictional aircraft design as they are, in fact, directly related and limiting your inspiration to just one corner means you aren't thinking out of the box.

[@SlyAceZeta]

"Just a rumor, but some of these Aircraft were apparently even wind tested by the developers." Definitely a rumor, I haven't heard this before and haven't seen anything to corroborate it. They do have model kits, but I doubt they're built to withstand wind tests.

[@sanikku7359]

​@@SlyAceZeta When I was told this, I was told it wasn't a scientific test. more like, carving a rough shape out of foam and taping string to it with a fan. As for who told me this, just a friend in a private conversation, it came about as i was talking about how the Wyvern & Morgan seemed pretty flight capable shape-wise. I was doing some experiments trying to figure out how to use OpenFOAM, and while it could be chalked up to excellent use of reference material from real aircraft, they seemed to generate proper lift and when moving straight seem quite stable and seeing the wingtip vortices on the morgan was pretty cool.

[@GuagoFruit]

My favourite sci-fi feature of the darkstar is the helmet that perfectly shows your face and also helpfully shines light right on your eyeballs at all times.

[@captainnope747]

What I love about the Ace Combat's COFFIN (COnnection For Flight INterface) is that it is designed to work in tandem with a neural link (ENSI) to the aircraft, where the pilot controls all functions of the aircraft, though earlier aircraft such as the XFA-27 (Which had a glass canopy over the top but COFFIN projectors on the bottom) and the ADF-01 Falken didn't use a full neural control system. They did however implement a major use of eye and voice commands for controlling systems, and arm and leg restraints/rests that interpreted the movement of the limbs to maneuver the aircraft.

[@SpypilotSR-71]

Aeronautics major here. Fly-By-Wire i.e digital flight controls (not thrust vectoring) made variable sweep wings mostly obsolete on fighter aircraft. Forward swept wings are bad because of aerolastic bending at high alpha. Thrust Vectoring has been used on missiles going back to the Cold War. But it has limited use on fighter aircraft. This is because unless the fighter has a superior thrust to weight ratio (like a missile) it serves no purpose but cause the fighter stall quicker. This is because thrust vectoring does nothing to reduce the airplanes critical angle of attack. For this reason the F-35 does not have thrust vectoring.

[@kelp2697]

8:25 Hey i've seen that before! The 6th day has a scene where Arnold is racing around a ski resort in a helicopter/plane hybrid that uses a wing system almost identical to this!

[@ampeel-lj8pu]

One thing to note is Gerry Anderson’s works, specifically thunderbirds. Besides the thunderbirds themselves, there’s the Fireflash, which had a nuclear reactor, engines in the horizontal stabilizers, folding wingtip landing gear, and a cockpit/bridge in the rudder. The reboot tried to make it a bit more realistic, but it also contains another sci-fi plane trope in its box wing configuration. It’s also funny how he later worked on Space: 1999, which had what I think is still the most realistic spacecraft in fiction, the eagle transporter.

[@BlindIo42]

The forward swept wing has a serious aerodynamic issue - it significantly helps maneuverability at low speeds, but at higher speeds wind deflection becomes a real problem. All wings bend and flex in flight, a rearward swept wing will flex under load and decrease the angle of attack (AOA). However, a forward swept wing will increase the AOA and begin catching more air, deflecting even more, eventually the aircraft will become unstable. This can be good for supermaneuverability, but at higher speeds it can lead to control problems and even wing failure. Essentially the wingtip curls upward, catching more air, deflecting the wing up more and pulling the nose of the aircraft up relative to the lift vector. A good analogy is the handling of a typical RWD vs FWD car. A FWD car is prone to understeer, requiring more steering input to turn - this is your rear-swept wing design. The RWD car tends to over-steer, meaning the back comes around and you lose control - this is the forward swept wing. A good driver can manage oversteer, but it takes a lot more experience and skill than managing understeer.

[@AlexandarHullRichter]

One of my favorite science fiction aircraft is the helicopter style from the movie The Sixth Day. It is a single rotor helicopter, with an invisible anti-torque system, that simply appears to be directed jet outlets at the end of the tail (the main engine is a turbine like many actual helicopters, so it makes sense), but the rotors would also lock into place mid-flight, just like on the crucible you describe at 8:30, and then the turbine exhaust outlets are used for actual forward thrust. Definitely one of the coolest science fiction aircraft, imo.

[@mosesracal6758]

Patlabors' designs are highly underrated. Its stealth F-16, chonkier Chinook, and its own version of the recon helicopter with the very outward design of its EO-IR system

[@HellbirdIV]

Forward-swept wings are a definite favourite of mine. The F-302 is probably the best "near-future" space-fighter design ever - I specify "near-future" because obviously things like the X-Wing, Colonial Viper and Starfury that are true starfighters sit in their own category.

[@diamondflaw]

I think this is partly why The Sky Crawlers was so refreshing for me. Just enough sci-fi elements mixed with very grounded aircraft and maneuvering.

[@LordCastigator]

Built a custom model air/space fighter using parts from other kits. Forward swept wings that fold back for storage. Control surfaces may seem small but are functional, and for a reason. Manoeuvres like a traditional aircraft when needed, however it's actually propelled by a combination of thrust and gravitational manipulation, which means it can actually fly sideways if need be. Admittedly, it handles better flat when flying sideways due to aerodynamics, but in space it can literally move in any direction. It does move faster with thrust assistance though...

[@chandrachurniyogi8394]

addition of tiltrotor to the UH-60 Black Hawk instead of the traditional rotor blades is truly ingenious . . . it's practical & 100% realistic . . .

[@traviswebb5094]

Loved the fighters from Space Above and Beyond.

[@thegamingzilla6269]

Forward swept wings werent dropped due to BVR combat being prefered, they were dropped due to the concept being inherently too unstable to be practical to fly when not using the flight computer to assist in stabilization

[@TheOtherGuys2]

One I've always liked was the "Whispercraft" helicopters in the movie The Sixth Day. They have this thick, dual-blade rotor combined with a jet propulsion system, and then in flight it has the rotor stop and lock into place as a swept wing design, turning the helicopter into a stunt plane. Looking at it now, I don't think the wings have enough surface area to give it adequate lift, but looking at it as a kid 24 years ago, it was awesome.

[@milohargadine1601]

I love when a vehicle has folding rotors for landing, I’m not sure how practical it is but I think it looks cool

[@jason-composer]

Man loves Patlabor and honestly, so do I :D stay winning, great references chosen from many different media

[@amorphousblob2721]

One thing that is ubiquitous in sci-fi movies is airplanes with no rudders whatsoever. Rudders are often the first thing to go when some VFX designer creates a model of a "future" airplane for a movie or game. Another popular choice is giving planes absurdly short wings. Or looping wings. Sometimes the plane ends up being just a fuselage with shark fins on it (but not at the rear because we wouldn't want to have rudders or anything to suggest the vehicle relies on aerodynamic forces to control it).

[@skyscall]

My favorite fictional aircraft would be the ADFX-01 Morgan from Ace Combat, on account of the fact it's one of the very few fictional aircraft that actually have a _good_ design realistically, and not just "well, it'd _technically_ fly in real life, so close enough". It has massive LERX for high amounts of vortex lift, and small and stubby forward-swept wings to get around the critical weakness of forward swept wings: twisting along the chord line. Plus a proper lifting body design and a large rear cockpit bulkhead located centrally in the center of mass, for ample fuel storage. It's genuinely a great design; shame the other aircraft in the series (ADF-01. X-02, etc) didn't follow it as closely.