Why Are Steinways So Expensive?

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Welcome to LivingPianos.com, I'm Robert Estrin. Today's question is: Why are Steinways so expensive? Did you know that even a baby grand Steinway is over $80,000? Concert grands are over $200,000! What could possibly make pianos so expensive when you can get other baby grands for around $10,000? Is it all marketing? Well, here's the truth. And everything I'm going to tell you today doesn't just apply to Steinway. It applies to other American pianos, like Mason and Hamlin, as well as European pianos such as Blüthner, Bechstein, Fazioli in Italy, Bösendorfer in Austria, and even hand-built pianos from Yamaha and Shigeru Kawai in Japan.
How Can You Afford a Steinway?
• How Can You Afford a S...

[@michaeljacobs3418]

Good old Robert!!

[@snafu313]

Steinways have been one of the most expensive of the hand built pianos for the better part of 150 years, even back when most if not all pianos were hand built. I've played on a number of brands of pianos over the years. I'm convinced that the Real Men of Genius at Steinway were and always have been in the marketing department. This is not to say they're not world class pianos, but you pay a hefty price for the mystique and the pretention of owning a Steinway

[@RocketBrothersBand]

There is probably some simple math to explain the cost of a Steinway. A $200,000 concert grand probably cost them around $50,000 to build, parts and labor. They probably wholesale for $100-150,000, and the rest is dealer margin. On top of the heritage of the brand, they spend a ton of money to support their pianos for concert venues around the world. No other brand regardless of how high quality it is has the brand presence of Steinway. Buying used or rebuilt seems to be the best value for sure, or finding a different brand that also produces high quality instruments, but not the same brand appeal.

[@gcuthbertson1352]

Always interesting content as usual, Robert. I do have a question that I don't think you or any other salesman can answer logically. You said that a Steinway baby grand is $80,000, and a concert grand is $200,000, but I've never had a reasonable answer as to why. For starts, you can get TWO baby grands and still have $40,000 leftover change for the price of ONE concert grand. Hmmm . . . let's see a few things they have in common. They both have 88 keys, 3 legs, 3 pedals, 1 music rack, 1 folding lid etc. The "expensive" part of the piano is really the first two feet from the front, which contains the action (hammers, shanks, repetitions, capstans, keys, bushings, dampers, tuning pins, strings, and the same "hand work" to assemble them). The rest of the 5' baby grand, which is about 3' long, is just "wood" for the rim and sound board, along with the necessary length of the plate. In and of itself, these parts are not "expensive" compared to the first two feet. In contrast, the 9' concert grand is another 4' of "wood, plate, and strings" longer than the baby grand. So, how is it that the extra 4' is worth another $120,000 more than the baby grand? As I said, TWO baby grands has TWICE the cost of essential parts and labour of a single concert grand, and somehow that is still less money. Furthermore, most upright pianos of reputable brands seldom cost more than $30,000 for top tier makes, and being on average 48" tall, or 4', the materials in TWO uprights are almost the same as a concert grand. That means you can get nearly SEVEN uprights for one concert grand, which is many times more material and labour. Something doesn't add up!!! I myself have a vintage 1915 Steinway ("Steinwas") D that I overhauled with many custom features, including a WNG composite action (far better than the previous Renner action that replaced the original action in 1998) and I know the costs of hammers, action parts, strings, tuning pins, damper felts etc. is FAR less expensive in the context of a new Steinway D price tag. The cost of hammers, dampers, action parts, keys, tuning pins, and strings are nearly identical across ALL sizes of pianos, from spinets to concert grands. The labour would also not be too different across all the upright and grand models, as many share the same components for assembly and finishing. Only the concert grand adds another 4' of exterior finishing work, which compared to an upright or baby grand or any other size in between, is not really that much more work. I have overhauled at least 15 pianos with new parts and refinishing, ranging from uprights to my Steinway D, and the work is not really that much different across all the models. I do know and appreciate the purity of tone and power from a concert grand over a baby grand, but that really only comes into play below C3 (C below middle C), as the upper string lengths and gauges are all the same for the most part. So adding another $120,000 for the bottom register of the keyboard up to C3 is a LOT of extra money that I can't explain or justify. Perhaps what really makes some of these pianos so expensive is the overhead of Real Estate and taxes etc of Manhattan NY, which has to be recovered before even a light bulb is turned on in the factory. Also, the high cost of living in that section of Real Estate means labour rates have to be high enough to allow workers to even afford to live close enough to work in there. I'm sure there are many other "hidden expenses" that have to be added that has NOTHING to do with the quality of the piano itself, as the base costs of parts is a very small percentage of the final price tag that these pianos sell for. I'm not knocking the quality of these pianos, which is very good sometimes, but that alone does not honestly account for the exorbitant price tags!!! Perhaps you can enlighten me on some things I'm not aware of. BTW, your piano needs tuning!!!

[@LivingPianosVideos]

Concert grand pianos of any manufacturer are by their very nature custom-made instruments because so few of them are produced. Also, having a soundboard that large that is tapered and can produce the depth of tone, sustain, projection, and evenness throughout all registers, is a great challenge. It’s like the difference between a small diamond and a large diamond. Getting a large diamond without flaws is extremely rare and expensive.

[@gcuthbertson1352]

@@LivingPianosVideos I understand that concert grand pianos are "rare" compared to the abundance of smaller models, but they are not "special" in any way to any other quality made piano of smaller sizes. The actions are built exactly the same way, the strings are installed exactly the same way, the hammers are voiced the same, the regulation is the same, the finish is applied the same, and so forth. The rims are made the same way, and the iron plate the same way. Nothing is different that makes it more or less "hand built" than smaller pianos. I also understand that the level of workmanship will be more meticulous on the "flagship" models, but even a lowly basic piano will get much of the same workmanship within the same factory. So I don't entirely buy your answer as to why the concert grand piano is "so much better, thus so much more expensive" than smaller models. So again, the extra 4' of soundboard length along with the strings and extra cast iron in the plate for the length on a 9' concert grand is NOT a $120,000 upgrade over a 5' baby grand. They both take a year to build. The finish is not "way better" on the big piano than the little piano. That part is identical workmanship, and the extra length is NOT a deciding factor. Two baby grands have more "finishing" work to do than one concert grand. I think you get my point. The superior sound is gained only by the extra string lengths of the scale design, and above C3 to C8, all pianos are nearly identical. So that argument does not explain the "$120,000" difference. The fact that so few concert grands are made does not "make it rare" like a big diamond. I could theoretically be a piano manufacturer that makes EXCLUSIVELY 9' and 7.5' grand pianos and nothing smaller and price everyone else out of the market by offering realistic prices like they used to in very early catalogues in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The rarity of large pianos are a choice made by companies, and is to some degree supported by the demands of the public at large. But it's nonsense that an average home can't fit a larger 7'-9' piano instead of the smaller sub-6' offerings. I have a Steinway D in my living room, and while it is a full sound, it's easily as tolerated with normal playing as a smaller grand. But the purity of tone that comes from the longer strings in the bass register, along with the better action with longer keys makes the musical experience so much better than the gnarly bass that small pianos offer, besides their "clunkier" actions with shorter keys. If concert grands weren't priced out of reach of many gifted pianists, I believe many more people would buy them, and they would be in much greater demand. So if a "quality" baby grand is $80,000, then concert grands should only be $100,000, and even then that's still a lot of money for merely four more feet of strings and soundboard. But more people would seriously consider the upgrade if their home living space permitted a bigger piano. I think piano companies are going to price themselves out of the market if such unrealistic prices keep going up. Ever wonder why there is such a decline in people learning to play the piano these days? (Besides a piano technician, I'm also a piano teacher as well, so I know the market is shrinking for new students, and without them, the demand for pianos has declined tremendously, especially compared to 100 years ago). Make the big pianos of higher quality affordable again, and you'll find more demand for them among gifted pianists. Just my opinion. Keep up the interesting videos!!!

[@ElikemTheTuner]

​@@gcuthbertson1352 As a piano technician in a country where most people cannot afford expensive pianos, I agree with you. You have an interesting perspective. I recently saw some of those old catalogues you mentioned and they were reasonably priced. No amount of adjusting for inflation will land us at the current prices. If manufacturers continue to overprice pianos, Asian companies will price them out of business. We're seeing the potential for that in the field of electric vehicles. Pianos are now hard to sell simply because they cost too much and many customers are willing to settle for digital ones even though they're not the best.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Merci Robert.

[@shanhuawang360]

I never no ask myself-‘’why Steinway so expensive ‘’,because my ear s(when listen Steinway s sound )-understand -why Steinway so expensive. This-honesty of life

[@AL-pu7ux]

The instrument takes many months to make using skilled craftsmen based in NYC, which of course has a very high cost of living.

[@pianostudy4403]

NYC is an expensive place to live, produce products, and I’m sure the property taxes are pretty high for Steinway too…a lot of overhead. So, I wonder, back in the day when Baldwin had their operations in Arkansas and other areas with lower cost of living expenses, if Baldwin had a healthier profit margin vs. Steinway? Not knocking a NY Steinway, loved ‘em… but from a business perspective, it makes you wonder though…

[@roadguide123]

Steinway…the dream

[@adnoh]

I guess the question should be then, why are Steinways more expensive than other hand built pianos? My guess is simply b/c they can sell it for more. All of that history, concert stage prescience and marketing has led to a prestige premium that those who are able to afford it are willing to pay more for arguably a qualitatively lesser (quality vs price basis) piano.

[@LuisKolodin]

Steinway is less expensive than Bosendorfer or Fazioli. But there's also supplt x demand that dictates the price. After 200 years Steinway remains to own the richest tone, most powerful, not strident with smooth attack piano available. Other brands don't even come close to it, so they are not fair competitors for students, professionals and at the stage.

[@thomasg321]

They aren't

[@thomasg321]

@@LuisKolodin No they are not. Try a Steingraeber, or a Fazioli or a C. Bechstein.

[@LuisKolodin]

@@thomasg321 I have already tried. No one of them has the warmth and ressonance of a Steinway. I prefer Steingraeber among these there, and Fazioli is simply too bad: flat, cold, harsh.

[@Eddirickthyev]

Someone could give me one grandpiano yamaha???

[@Beyondabsence]

Steinway Boston location closing forever....

[@JayMSinger]

The law of diminsihing return applies. Is a Ferrari a multiple times better than a Kia? Is business class four times better than economy? No, of course. We pay more and more for less and less improvement in many things. OTOH, sometimes you get what you pay for i.e organic free range eggs! Caveat emptor...and long live Steinway!

[@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12]

I mean if you like the Steinway sound/touch, and can afford one then why not. Branding isn't everything🎹🎶

[@zaheedhasib]

Short answer, hand made in USA and Germany and also owned by a hedge fund. Long answer, really overpriced compared to C. Bechsteins (at least the New York ones)!

[@Thunder_Roy]

First