Why Are The Cybermen Better In The 60s?

A video discussion on why I personally think the cybermen were better represented in the 1960's compared to any other decade of Doctor Who.
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[@zeethreepio]

You're absolutely correct. Not a fan of current Cybermen, they're just skeletons in metal suits. They've lost all trace of their humanity.

[@Djayscratcher98]

The parallel earth ones converted by removing the brain, normally... but they also encased full bodies for quicker conversions seen via torchwood's cyber woman. The cybus legion being our universe variants are seen to convert full bodies in Closing time. They also use human parts to repair their own. The latest Warrior's are said in the episode to be full of human remains. (Ashad wanted to remove the parts but it was only for the specific Squadrons) Evan the mondasian revamp are full bodies still. The only ones to not follow this and remove it all as part of their design and just keep the skeleton are the nightmare in silver style. Its self explanatory that they need more armor as time progresses. They were at constant war with humanoids. They managed to fight back the Cybermen and the Cybermen would evolve to overcome and eliminate weakness. They have to defend themselves. Got to remember too this is a all ages show. Look at concept art over the years. Super creepy stuff. But thats the problem its "too scary" for kids n such. Sadly we have massive limitations but its enough to let the imagination do the rest of the work.

[@minicle426]

I wish the Tomb era Cybermen would make a comeback. They already proved the Tenth Planet ones still work with minimal adjustments.

[@hopebgood]

I like the way they talk in that really weird sing-songy voice in The Tenth Planet.

[@Dalekzilla]

My favourite Cybermen are and have always been the Tenth Planet or Mondasian Cybermen. They look like burn victims, wrapped up in bandages, and with all the tubes running in and out of them, they are just SO creepy. And I love their speech pattern. My second favourites are probably the Invasion Cyberman.

[@thewhoview]

@@Dalekzilla great minds think alike, both are my favourites as well. 😄

[@timsmail004]

I absolutely agree, the '60s was the pinnacle era for the Cybermen. They were at their most effective in every way and all the stories from that era (except Wheel in Space) are solidly cemented among my all-time favourites from the show

[@richardgregory3684]

I loved the Tenth Planet cybermen. Of all the versions, they looked the most like their concept: human beings who had had their body parts extensively replaced by machinery. Ironically, the small budget lead to what I think is the most effective costume design: these Cybermen still have what are recognisably human parts (such as their hands) and have a bulky life-support system. They're not designed as war machines, as th elater variants were. The cloth face immediately makes the viewer imagine what might be underneath it. The voices are eerie and recognisably human, yet inhuman: they are exactly what you'd expect, synthesised and mad efrom pre-existing human speech, so you get the strange intonations: not quite machine, not quite human either. The later ones tended to be much more like robots.

[@thewhoview]

Totally agree.

[@Clone683]

The problem with the newer cybermen is they just feel like Iron Man robot suits, you forget theres an actual person in there

[@thewhoview]

@@Clone683 you're absolutely right, they're more robotic & less organic. 🤖☹️

[@TheCastellan]

Easy: 1: They often hid in the shadows at first. 2: They had a more cyborg feel to them.....NuWho cybermen are more like Ironman wannabes or Robocop....and Robocop knows how to do it right. 3: Classic Cybermen had more body horror. 4: NO loud STOMP STOMP STOMP (they even had the Mondasian Cybermen in NuWho go stompy stomp), only the aforementioned Robocop does stompy stomp well. 5: They don't got logos on their chests. 6: NO stupid "DELETE!" catchphrase. What the hell was Russel SNORTING back in the 2000's? They messed up the Sontatons as well, and in more ways than one. 7: They were fighting to merely survive. With their home world gone, they were an endangered species. 8: Injured Cybermen spewing white foam from their chest devices, nuff said. 9: The Tomb Cybermen's babbling when doing physical exertion was creepy. 10: The 10th Planet Cybermen speech.....like a computer scanning the functions of a larynx and speaking in a clipped computer voice was also creepy.

[@thewhoview]

@@TheCastellan some really solid points there you covered, very well done. The Cybermen have lost their body horror element.

[@Benjiesbeenbetter.]

Great assessment. I'd also add the glimpses of an eyeball deep in the black socket in Tenth Planet. With the, perhaos best unanswered question of "What sort of face is under that mask?" Rather than a standard shrivelled up skull prop that just falls out when the face panel opens.

[@TheCastellan]

@@Benjiesbeenbetter. Me, I always felt what is under any of the Cybermasks are bare skulls with electronic bits. A good example, go look up the prototype test scene from Robocop 2. The second test prototype steps out from the lab, and he pulls off his helmet, revealing a skull, which screams, and falls over. That, I think is what's under the masks. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHusm4GplNhlhKs

[@TheCastellan]

@@thewhoview kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHusm4GplNhlhKs This is what I feel is under the helmets/masks. The second prototype in the clip. Though I COULD see something like this happening on Mondas, when the Mondasians began their cybernetic program.

[@idle_speculation]

Admittedly the logos work for the series 2 cybusmen because they’re made by a company (which ties into the fact that they’re trying to send a different message to the originals)

[@jasongoswelluk7475]

Plain and simple the stories were better than the crap they have now

[@lenlooksback7981]

Big time. All about the writing.

[@jcrossan1351]

World enough and time did it really good with Bill’s conversion reveal

[@thewhoview]

@@jcrossan1351 it did indeed 😁

[@TheCastellan]

15:25 The Cybermen inherited the traits of their hosts. And the Cybermen were survivors of the Cyberwar, and possibly adopted emotion since total logic did not work all those other times before hand.

[@StephenStumbke-p8y]

I Love the tomb cybermen the most

[@thewhoview]

@@StephenStumbke-p8y Troughton is fantastic & the Cybermen are so scary. It's such an awesome story & the perfect story to recommend to someone who wants an introduction into 60's Who. 😊

[@DoctorWhoNose]

I had never really thought about this, but I think I always knew it at my core. Although I will say, that the half converted Cyberman, from the Jodi era added an effective humanity, but not as great as that Capaldi series mentioned with Bill Potts. I think that has to be my favorite story. Doctor Who was super dark and sad under Moffat / Capaldi, from the death of Clara, to the conversion of Bill Potts. I

[@thewhoview]

@@DoctorWhoNose I wished they made ashad more tragic. I would of loved something with the whole partial conversion, like him being overwhelmed by his emotions. 😀

[@richardruff8712]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that classic story, about the Cybermen attacking the Moonbase.... Very well made ( considering how long ago, and of course, the famous BBC Budget limitations ).... I agree with all comments, the first Cybermen were the most scary and impressive... As a kid, it always scared me, when they spoke, the mouths opened, but did not open and close according to the words spoken...?.... Always loved the wide lens Woolworths torch up on their heads !... Totally agree, the modern versions are just like Robocop... The old ones are the best....!

[@taliesinllanfair4338]

When I was in London I happened on the steps near St Paul's where that iconic scene from Invasion was shot. Was later reminded of that when it was re-used in Dark Water. I loved tomb and Invasion. In non-60s cybermen I enjoyed Revenge and Earthshock. Although, Earthshock was probably more memorable due to the poignant end credits.

[@thewhoview]

@@taliesinllanfair4338 that would of been really cool to visit such an iconic location. 😁 I have a lot of fun with revenge of the Cybermen & of course earthshock is brilliant. You have good taste my friend. 👌😊

[@richardgregory3684]

I think the Tenth Planet ones had the best lines too. They weren't conquering monsters, they just wanted to survive, and have stripped themselves of all their humanity in pursuit of that. "Our brains are just like yours except that certain weaknesses have been removed. You call them emotions, do you not?" "Care? No, why should I care? There are people all over your planet dying and you do not care about them" Way better than the ludicrous Cybusmen going delete delete.

[@thewhoview]

@@richardgregory3684 you're absolutely right, so much more impactful.

[@TheCastellan]

7:44 He's another Henry Kissinger or Klause Schwab.

[@francisorielly9698]

Love the Mondasian Cybermen in 'Tenth Planet.' Another favourite design are those in 'Wheel.' They were elaborate and towered over others.

[@thewhoview]

@@francisorielly9698 nice picks 😎👌

[@markwardel6751]

As an 8 year old in 1966 I clearly remember watching the Tenth Planet every Saturday after tea at my friend's house and being absolutely traumatised by the Mondas (walking corpse) Cybermen...still the creepiest version of this classic monster

[@thewhoview]

@@markwardel6751 Sound's like a great memory. They very much feel like zombies in suits & it's such an effective design. 😁

[@JeremiahEcks777]

a) In the 60's they addressed a very real ongoing discussion about replacing yourself with artificial appendages which people were afraid of (hello progress) and b) they were treated seriously and not like a cartoon. The Davies Era Cybermen had a catchphrase (DELETE) which made them childish, their design was not threatening at all (felt like a toy... which I think is the point) and then they had some very bad stories or stories where they were jobbed or part of other groups of monsters which dropped their lustre a bit. Nightmare in Silver tried to do better things with them but wasn't a great story so that failed. They were however really good in the Capaldi finish except they did one last story after it which was appalling and therefore stole it's thunder. I didn't see them during Jodie to be honest as I'd stopped watching and I've never wasted my time catching up but I saw there were Gallifreyan Cybermen and they looked so goofy...

[@thewhoview]

@@JeremiahEcks777 yeah the cyber-masters in the Whittaker era were in my opinion, really bad. Capaldi's series 10 finale World enough & time / the doctor falls is the best modern Who Cybermen story. I don't mind the RTD Cybermen, its a different version of the Cybermen that aren't from our universe, but their catchphrase you can never take seriously. Let's just agree that the Cybermen are better in classic Who.

[@JeremiahEcks777]

@@thewhoview I agree that the Capaldi story is their best use in 'modern' Who. The Davies one was silly because of the catchphrase. I used to get annoyed by a fellow Whovian of my acquaintance who used to follow me around saying it just to get a rise. That it's annoying and doesn't warm the cockles of my heart (like a good old fashioned "exterminate") says it all! "You will be like US" is scarier anyway.

[@thewhoview]

@@JeremiahEcks777 Yeah, it definitely feels like they wanted to make them more like the Daleks & it doesn't work, it's just really silly.

[@JeremiahEcks777]

@@thewhoview I think 'to sell toys' really springs to mind when thinking about RTD's Cybermen. He loved the audio Spare Parts and you definitely see him and his team trying to capture that precise theme but not quite understanding what makes the Cybermen work. You see it with Yvonne - there's the horror at the saws but the horror of the Cybermen isn't that you get chopped up to become a big Dalek-esque catchphrase tank. The horror of the Cybermen is that they still have "human" parts! Hands in the Tenth Planet, mouths in the 80's etc. They are identifiable as humanoids. That's why the Doctor Falls got them right. Because we see firmly that these monsters can be like US if we choose to reject emotion and compassion. If we did those things we wouldn't march like Zombies but we would become horrible, immoral monsters.

[@thewhoview]

@@JeremiahEcks777 perfect summary 😊👌

[@peteralderson1483]

I remember watching the cybermen when I was a kid in the 60s . I’m that old . I’ve always said that they were the scariest adversary for the doctor. They scared me when I was a kid, plus I always wanted to be one. I think it was because the early cybermen had silver wellies. Later ones wore ordinary boots. As a kid I always loved wearing my wellies, so I pretended to be a cyberman when I wore my wellies. Yes I was a strange kid 😂

[@thewhoview]

@@peteralderson1483 sounds like a lovely memory. The Cybermen were definitely scarier in the 60s.

[@peteralderson1483]

@@thewhoview cybermen became the henchmen, instead of being the main villains/ baddies. It’s strange remembering watching it and knowing they were silver, even though it was in black and white

[@willcorlett7630]

If there is one thing that made the old Who cybermen better, was that they were portrayed as individuals not as mindless stomp in time metal men. It played into the suggestion that there was a person or at least what was left of the person entombed in that outer shell. Beyond that flashy cgi does not make up for a good story

[@thewhoview]

@@willcorlett7630 You're right, so terrifying, that's what made them work so well. In modern Who they're way too robotic.

[@paulbeardsley4095]

I was 6 when Invasion was broadcast. I found the sewer scenes utterly terrifying. Interesting point about the callbacks in Attack of the Cybermen: at the time of broadcast (1985), not only were most of the earlier Cybermen stories not available on VHS, many had not even been novelised yet. Tomb of the Cybermen - to which Attack was a direct sequel - had been novelised, but the actual episodes were thought to be lost, as they wouldn't turn up for another six years. So for many, their knowledge of Cybermen lore was limited to what they could remember or else what they'd read in Lofficier's episode guide! My favourite Cyberman story is probably Tomb, but my favourite design is undoubtedly Tenth Planet. I especially like that they had human hands. If it had been up to me, I would have made it unmissably clear that although their hands were human, their arms were artificial, consisting of rods and cables that you can actually see through.

[@thewhoview]

@@paulbeardsley4095 I imagine that would of been quite the experience seeing the invasion for the first time.😁 The tenth planet mondassian Cybermen are so nightmarish, I love them. 😊

[@taliesinllanfair4338]

Love my copy of Lofficier's guide. Sits by my computer when I have to check something. Shame it only goes up to the end of Tom Baker's run.

[@thewhoview]

@@taliesinllanfair4338 there's 2 volumes right? If I'm thinking about the same book.

[@taliesinllanfair4338]

@@thewhoview yeah 2 volumes. 1st was 'The Programmes', 2nd was 'Who's who' . I lost the second one it had the blue spine.

[@thewhoview]

@@taliesinllanfair4338 very rare, keep hold of it 😄

[@trevormaurer3684]

I felt from Tom Bakers Revenge of the Cybermen they always looked second class to the Daleks from then on and not their equals. I have become indifferent to the current versions much like every thing else in Current Doctor Who

[@thewhoview]

@@trevormaurer3684 that's very fair. I feel a lot of the time modern Who really doesn't understand the Cybermen.

[@robvegas9354]

100% agree. Those 1960's cybermen are always great. Always good to see Tobias Vaughn and PACKER!!! getting a shout out. I do also enjoy the 80's Cyber Leader and his witty banter.

[@normallynormal3573]

My favorite Cybermen story is Big Finish's Warzone, a story with the 5th doctor, Tegan, Nyssa and their new comapnion Marc. It's horrifically brutal and one of the most harrowing stories I've ever experienced. It's incredible.

[@thewhoview]

@@normallynormal3573I haven't heard that one but it sounds like my cup of tea. Might have to pick it up next time it goes on sale.

[@jonathanmurphy3141]

When the surviving WHO was marketed to American PBS, in my region in 1985-'86, broadcast in movie format (like 17 Hartnell, and 5 Troughton),....there were no Cybermen episodes in the package. Only the clip of the trail in The War Games, of the enemies The Doctor fought. Three Dalek stories, one Ice Warriors. We had the Target novels, and DWM to see photos. Then the Cybermen stories vs' 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th. When "tomb" was released on video in '92-'3 -wonderful! The JN-T arranged "Years" videos, like the Cyberman one with surviving "Moonbase" and "Wheel" and the six "Invasion" linked by Nic Courtney on VHS....When the fan recon's, and how to obtain them, one of the first I wanted was "Tenth Planet". And the audio's on CD. We now have all offical Cyber' stories, with animation or episodes, except for the "Wheel" We are sooooo fortunate, all the efforts to find, restore, remake, and let fans experience.

[@thewhoview]

@@jonathanmurphy3141 I'm getting more viewers from America telling me their first exposure to classic Who. It's amazing to hear people's stories. we are definitely very blessed now. I love the fact that so much of missing who has now been animated, which is a great way for people to experience those stories for the first time. Really awesome to hear about you watching doctor who on PBS. 😊

[@Azzameen99AZ]

Laddie, your voice track is movie-quality. In the sense that I can't hear anything without turning computer volume to the max. And then intro music etc. blow out my eardrums.

[@thewhoview]

@@Azzameen99AZ sorry I had problems with the video. I had to record it twice because my mic died so as a result you have different portions at different volumes, it's all over the place.

[@hopebgood]

I didn't see the 60's Cybermen when originally broadcast cos I wasn't even born then but I think the 60's Cybermen were just so much more creepy and threatening. The Cybermen from more recent times are just clunky steampunk robots.

[@thewhoview]

@@hopebgood totally agree! I wasn't born when classic Who was originally broadcast, but that doesn't mean you had to be alive when they originally aired to enjoy & appreciate them. 😄

[@johansmallberries9874]

60s era Cybermen are extra creepy because they look like a person being treated for third degree burns.

[@stephenclaridge1896]

Another great video mate. Still think The Tomb of the Cybermenis best, But then still got Invasion to rewatch. so Who knows.

[@thewhoview]

@@stephenclaridge1896 Let's agree they're both great. 😁

[@Helen-ge5ng]

I really hated all the metallic stamping of the new Cybermen. It emphasised how robotic the new ones are. The older ones , with their weird sibilant voices are much more alien and frightening, with that element of body horror lacking in the new ones.

[@thewhoview]

@@Helen-ge5ng yeah they are way too robotic in modern Who & need to go back to doing more body horror with the Cybermen.

[@KismetMulhaneski-to3wg]

They were willing to take risks and still trying things out (also the [proto] Daleks were perfect and could never be improved upon) whereas even the silhouette of the Cybermen was pretty much fair game because they couldn't repeat the first costume because it was apparently a nightmare to work with (they did well in the Capaldi era to come up with a lightweight copy that in almost every conceivable way conveyed the Original) - these quirks also gave us many back stories for what the Cybermen were about and how they diverged without lots of story arcs or continuity errors during the decade which is great.

[@thewhoview]

@@KismetMulhaneski-to3wgyou made some really excellent points. You're absolutely right about those original tenth planet costumes were a pain for the actors to wear.

[@borusa32]

Favourite Cyberman Story: its between between Sword of Orion and Spare Parts I think.

[@thewhoview]

@@borusa32 oh those are good picks. I love spare parts 😍

[@TheCastellan]

Though I AM fond of the Revenge Cybermen.

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

Why would the Vogons need to use gold as a weapon when they have their poetry?

[@thewhoview]

@@bob_the_bomb4508 hitchhiker's guide, their poetry is only the third worst in the universe 😂😂

[@thewhoview]

@@bob_the_bomb4508 these Vogans are are different species 😆

[@davidphilp4453]

I was always a fan of the Cybermen, never keen on the Daleks, The Tomb of the Cybermen is my all time favourite Doctor Who story, though i would've love to see the very first Cybermen in a couple of more stories.

[@thewhoview]

@@davidphilp4453 tomb is a fantastic story, & yeah it would of been awesome if they used that original design for a couple more stories. 😊

[@3rd_Doctor]

Great video! Loved it. How do you avoid getting copyright struck?

[@thewhoview]

@@3rd_Doctorglad you enjoyed the video. I have never gotten a strike just a lot of copyright claims, which are so annoying because the video is fair use. If you use as little video clips as possible it helps a lot. That's why I use photos mainly.

[@TheBlackcredo]

Agree about the 60's cybermen. They had a clear and consistent threat. I hated the 70's and 80's cybermen. They were just silly villains with way too much emotion. In the new series there have been mixed results, but at least they brought back their emotionless simple desire to convert rather than conquer. The Capaldi era I think really got them right as did the Whitaker era.

[@richardgregory3684]

Yeah, although I think the Earthshock cybermen were great. The costumes are terrific and they were kept a total surprise after being absent for many years. Never forget that ending where it pans to two cybermen saying "Destroy them. Destroy them at once" - totally unexpected, and kept completely under wraps. Not a hint of them anywhere. Unfortunately it was downhill from there - they got overused and were awful in Silver Nemesis (literally exploding on contact with gold). Although the scene where Lytton is shown partially converted in Attack of the Cybermen is very effective indeed. And brutal.

[@thewhoview]

@@TheBlackcredo Earthshock does a terrific job with the redesign of the cybermen's costume, still showing the remnants of what they were, but they were portrayed more emotional, you're right. World enough & time/ the doctor falls is probably the best the Cybermen have been in modern Who.

[@thewhoview]

@@richardgregory3684 Silver nemesis is IMO the weakest portrayal of the Cybermen in classic Who.

[@richardgregory3684]

@@thewhoview It's awful. The established canon was that gold plated their breathing apparatus. Here we got them exploding on contact with it - how can anyone be scared of Cybermen whoi can be destroyed by a gold-tipped arrow or a gold coin from a catapult? Absolutely stupid beyond words. They were pretty bad in The Five Doctors too...they were just portrayed as being terminally stupid.

[@thewhoview]

@@richardgregory3684 but the scene where they get massacred in the 5 doctors is great. 🤖🏹💥

[@mayojar5264]

I agree I think the cybermen peaked in the 60s and while earthshock was phenomenal and attack of the cybermen was great. The 70s and 80s overall weren't consistently as good as the 60s when it comes to cybermen stories. When it comes to new who the cybermen are a joke that are disrespected by being a subservient and or a secondary antagonist to someone like the master or the daleks. In doomsday something like 50+ cybermen all focus firing on dalek sec and they couldn't even break through his shields, their guns might as well be shooting nerf bullets. Even when they're battling the daleks on the streets the cybermen can't even damage 1 dalek or couldn't even break through the shields of 1 dalek. Also for beings that act on pure logic and lack all emotional thinking they sure are stupid to keep attacking the daleks when their weapons are useless against them. instead of idk forfeiting the battle and retreating because they have absolutely no chance at winning. They just continue to foolishly fight the daleks despite the fact they're useless in a fight against them. The cybermen are completely incompetent in that story. Doomsday is a good dalek story but it just completely disrespects the cybermen. It was not a good outing for the cybermen at all. The cybermen in new who never had the impact that they had in classic who with the only exceptions being the masterpiece that is the world enough in time/the doctor falls and also age of steel/rise of the Cybermen was pretty good as well. However overall The cybermen just don't work in new who. The writers just can't get them right for some reason. I hope that some day the cybermen will come back with a real bang and consistently have good episodes for them. But until then I can just re-watch classic doctor who when I want to experience the greatness of the cybermen again.

[@thewhoview]

@@mayojar5264 Really great assessment. The Cybermen have just never been fully realised in modern Who with the exception of rise of the Cybermen / age of steel & World enough & time/ the doctor falls. I think army of ghost is good but you're right the Cybermen are completely let down in doomsday.

[@richardruff8712]

To me, the image at 20:55 is the classic Cyberman... Impressive, considering when it was made...

[@thewhoview]

@@richardruff8712 I love the original tenth planet designs, so creepy.

[@richardruff8712]

@@thewhoview Yes, agreed... It did give that impression of something that was ' different ', and yet compelling to watch, bandages and all...! ... Sadly, I think that this modern ' Robocop ' style, is a real cop-out, and just going for a predictable design, which most younger viewers would understand... To me, as a 68 year old ( who remembers the first ever episode of Dr Who, the day after the Kennedy shooting ) and the repeat, a week later.... I am convinced that the early designs were the best, especially the original Tardis interior... Classic 1960's Science Fiction....

[@markparry63]

Sorry mate but Pluto is NOT a dwarf star, it is a dwarf planet.

[@thewhoview]

@@markparry63 my bad 😆😆😆

[@markparry63]

@@thewhoview It happens. My favourite Cybermen were in Tom Baker's tenure. Allergic to gold if I remember rightly?

[@thewhoview]

@@markparry63 yep, something that was added to the lore after that. I have a lot of fun with revenge of the Cybermen despite its flaws.

[@richardgregory3684]

If you like the Tenth Planet Cybermen, you really need to listen to the Big Finish story Space Parts. It's one of their best - it gves a backstory to Tenth Planet and is set on Mondas, in the last remaining city on a dying world where there's a plan on how to survive and a black market in body parts....

[@thewhoview]

@@richardgregory3684 I have listened to it. I have it on CD, probably the definitive cyberman story 10/10.

[@richardgregory3684]

@@thewhoview Me too. It's one of Big Finish best stories. I'd really recommend the _I, Davros_ series too.

[@thewhoview]

@@richardgregory3684 my favourite from the monsters trilogy was Master, it's so good. Both McCoy & beavers are fantastic, I count that as cannon.

[@jamesomeara2329]

I have watched sixties Doctor Who out of order, thanks to library dvds, and Tomb was my introduction to them, so that's always been my favorite. Need to see the Wheel plotline, don't know if it's at the library. And yes, I have not really seen old Who in order, but the low budget feel just seems more appropriate than some of the current stuff. Just mem

[@thewhoview]

@@jamesomeara2329 I originally watched a lot of classic who out of order, saw them as the DVDs were released. You should be able to check out the wheel in space online. I watched it on dailymotion, it's a photo reconstruction on all episodes except for 3 & 6 because those exist.

[@djm-3995]

The Tenth planet is one of my favourite stories of the classic series. Not really big on new who. It doesn't have the same charm and appeal.

[@thewhoview]

@@djm-3995 that's perfectly fine, you can't go wrong with the classics.

[@djm-3995]

@@thewhoview what are your favourites from the classic series?

[@David-zo7fb]

I so agree with you 👍 excellent video

[@thewhoview]

@@David-zo7fb thanks glad you liked it.😊

[@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf]

Because the 60`s weren`t woke mate

[@floydian2007]

You are absolutely right 60s Cybermen are the best. You mention the racist tropes of “Tomb” which are true and uncomfortable from a decent modern perspective. However it I would say Toberman (played by the late great Roy Stewart, Live and Let Die and many other great roles), was the hero of the story. He doesn’t say much but puts on a brilliant performance and steals the show. My favourite is Earthshock. Probably because I grew up with 80s Who and just feel that story had all the great scenes and shock moments. I also like how they keep the human aspect through the glass jaw and more emotion which contrary to how they are supposed to be, shows that they are human beings struggling to become robots and suggests that that is just not possible. I also like how whilst the Daleks are supposed to be representations of Nazis and fascism, the Cybermen are extremes of Communism. I agree though 60s Cybermen fitted the times so well, especially considering the Vietnam War and how the US was desperate to break down communism in Europe and Asia, the advancement of computer technology in the 60s. I can well imagine how that would have played into the fear of young minds in that decade. Also when you consider the happy, flower power hippy culture the idea of monster, replacing their organs and becoming so robotic must have been truly terrifying.

[@thewhoview]

@@floydian2007 Earthshock is a terrific story, you have great taste. Watching these stories as a kid for the first time definitely leaves a lasting impression on you. You can absolutely see the allegorical messaging about fascism especially in the invasion, playing on the fears at the time & it works so well.

The Cyberborg.

[@masterdanthrax]

I loved Silver Nemesis maybe because I saw this as a 13 year old really enjoying dr who again and disappointed in its time slot as it should have been better received (season 25 and 26)

[@thewhoview]

@@masterdanthrax hey that's cool, we all know what we like. 😉

[@SoundwaveSG1]

A poor man's Borg

[@thewhoview]

@@SoundwaveSG1 they were actually created before the Borg. But you can't really compare star trek's big budget to doctor who.

[@williampratt1066]

More like the Borg are grungy cybermen😅

[@ShaunCryer-e2w]

The stealth Cybermen were far more creepy

[@thewhoview]

@@ShaunCryer-e2w they were pretty cool 😉👌

[@Jamie_E_Pritchard]

I rather liked the Cybermen throughout entirety of the classic show, there was a progression in the design, essentially becoming more and more technological. In my opinion though they really buggered them up in Nu-Who (as with so many other things), and I don't think they've ever actually explained where the Cybus Cybermen went, or why our universe's Cybermen now look like them.

[@thewhoview]

@@Jamie_E_Pritchard definitely agree with you there, advancing & upgrading each time in classic Who. There's some plot holes in modern Who with the Cybermen, It's the same thing with the Daleks in modern who, after victory of the Daleks they would just show up without explanation.

[@Jamie_E_Pritchard]

@@thewhoview I'm afraid this is part of the malaise of modern writing (or rather modern writers). They've become far too comfortable with not opening mystery boxes or bothering to tie up loose ends. Or (perhaps even worse in my eyes) hand-waving Deus ex Machina resolutions without any build up or logic after writing themselves into corner. Something which RTD is notorious for. Unless there is an insertion of something for the sake of the series story arc there's seemingly very little effort to take the history, lore, and prior events into account and how they may effect the current story. Of course now with RTD's return Who is transforming from a science fiction show to a science fantasy show, with emphasis on the fantasy, and when you're dealing with what is essentially magic no explanation for anything needs to be given. Just how he likes it...

[@davids8449]

It's their army boots that lace up......... Seriously now the only Dr who worth watching are William Hartnell , Patrick troughton , and possibly Jon pertwee, and yes I saw them first time around

[@thewhoview]

@@davids8449 🤣

[@BernardJKD]

80s cybermen are the best .

[@thewhoview]

@@BernardJKD It's all subjective, everyone has their favourite. 😊

[@lenlooksback7981]

It's funny but for me, the best Cybermen will always be those from the (much maligned) Revenge Of The Cybermen. Do very much appreciate Tomb, though - cracking entertaining!

[@thewhoview]

@@lenlooksback7981 I have a lot of fun with revenge of the cybermen, maybe because it was one of the early fourth doctor stories I saw. I love it despite it's obvious flaws & plot holes. but I can't deny the fact that it's not the greatest portrayal of the cybermen. 😆

[@stephenclaridge1896]

So were the Daleks also better in the 60s ? 😊

[@Kybarg31]

Wish they woulf stop shouting "delete"

[@thewhoview]

@@Kybarg31 that was way too silly 🤖😆

[@papalaz4444244]

because they were techno mummies who used to be human, whio still think they are alive nu who they had no dialogue and just stomped about and did almost nothing

[@thewhoview]

@@papalaz4444244 way too robotic in modern Who.

[@fatdog1963rb]

60s cyber men were better in every way. I like them all not struck on modern dipiction. Now I don't mind silver nemesis but I loved all sylvester mccoy story's well his first season was crap but not written for him anyway. Amazing Jon pertwee got no cybermen.

[@thewhoview]

@@fatdog1963rb yeah it would of been awesome to see the third doctor go up against the Cybermen.

[@leebritnell2405]

Doctor Who was better in the 60s.

[@thewhoview]

@@leebritnell2405 everyone has their own favourite. I think the 70's is overall my favourite decade, especially the Pertwee era. There's very few bad stories in the 70's. Though I have a lot of nostalgia for the RTD1 era. 😄

[@tom_4615]

70s cybermen were just a bit shit and 80s cybermen were awful. Mental how much of a downgrade they were from the 60s

[@thewhoview]

@@tom_4615 I like Earthshock a lot, but the Cybermen in that are a little bit too emotional. 60s was their best depiction. 😊

[@BlindTimeLord]

@thewhoview have you listened to The Great Cyber War from Big Finish? Its in the Audacity box set. Its the Cyber story I never thought we needed. and gives a lot of info regarding the Revenge Cybermen. Plus makes them make way more sense

[@thewhoview]

@@BlindTimeLord no I haven't. I love McGann, but when it come to big finish, because they release so much new stuff it's hard to keep up with it so I cherry pick what I'm interested in. But from what you've described it sounds very interesting, might have to get it.

[@BlindTimeLord]

Yeah it's good :)

[@richardruff8712]

Have you slightly altered the video ? ... My favorite image now appears at 20:43...? Seems that 12 seconds have vanished from this video...?

[@thewhoview]

@@richardruff8712 I had to cut a couple of seconds out. 😄

[@richardruff8712]

@@thewhoview Ah, thanks... I thought I was seeing things... !

[@grahamdawson-lg5mq]

The First Cybermen are the best. I don't watch this new Who anyway. RTD has Lost the plot. Let's be honest the stories are completely rubbish. The Last two Doctors have been terrible. It's a pity. Can it be saved. Have you seen the new U N I T. DOCTOR WHO is FINISHED for now.

[@thewhoview]

@@grahamdawson-lg5mq To be honest with you, I don't really have much interest in modern Who anymore. I wasn't a fan of a lot of things from the Whittaker era & wasn't much of a fan of RTD2 either. I gave it a go, & it just wasn't for me, & that's fine; the show isn't specifically made for me; I know others' enjoyed it. I'm the type of person who, if I don't like something, I'm not going to continue getting frustrated & annoyed by something I no longer enjoy watching; I just won't watch it. I'm the same with modern Trek, though I can't deny that Picard season 3 was pretty good. The doctor who fandom can sometimes be a really negative place to be in. I have had a lot of hate & abusive comments when I was reviewing Ncuti's first season, & all I was doing was saying my honest opinions on what I thought of the episodes.

[@grahamdawson-lg5mq]

@@thewhoview I agree with you . Picard season 3 was very good. To the last good Trek was Enterprise and my Best Trek DS9. Because you dont like new Who some idiots will attack you . But I still believe a lot of them dont like it. They are just saying so . The True Who fans have gone. The ones who buy the Merchandise. Doctor Who is dead.

[@thewhoview]

@@grahamdawson-lg5mq I adore DS9 I got the 1/6th scale sisko figure from exo-6. I agree with you, excluding Picard S3 I haven't liked any trek from 09 to present. Back to Who, it's a real shame that people can't say what they think about something without someone viciously attacking them.

[@grahamdawson-lg5mq]

@@thewhoview Agree. Freedom of speech.

[@roybixby6135]

Love modern special effects but the stories seemed so much more meaningful back then ... 🦘