Why are the ice shelves collapsing?

[@sharpfang]

And now in 2 weeks we'll get a follow-up, as a viewer rewrote the python ice shelf heat transfer code to be 50,000% faster and more accurate.

[@busterdafydd3096]

no python code in the first place. they have only posted matlab code

[@thisisnowtaken]

Hopefully only the code is faster, not the heat transfer

[@NathanaelNewton]

@@tuberroot1112That entirely depends on the coder

[@Hiltok]

@@NathanaelNewton Parker-Python is its own special category.

[@Markle2k]

That’s OK. This is purely gamergate incel phantasy porn. @@Hiltok

[@hg6996]

This is cool. You make a model. The model makes a strange prediction, you check the prediction and it matches reality. Couldn't get much more satisfying 🙂

[@TazPessle]

That's exactly science in action. Really amazing. PhDs are invaluable for what they teach us.

[@mitsync]

Edit: thanks for adding the manual subtitles! Constructive critism: please raise the audio levels and enable subtitles (preferably manual ones but automatic would already be an improvement). These videos are great anyway, but these changes would much improve accesibility with minimal effort.

[@marchagen3893]

Got the feeling the mic of Sammie was not on or not edited. All audio seems to come from Matts mic, with some after editing maybe?

[@MystbornYT]

Even Matt's audio is really quiet for me, and also in the VOs@@marchagen3893

[@yeahBradley]

Yeah, I put KZbin at 100% and Windows at 100% just for it to get audible. I usually have KZbin about 60% and Windows at 30%. Now I have to remember to turn em down or else my ears will shatter.

[@theobrayford4004]

I agree. If you did this, one big benefit to your viewers is that the youtube ads don't suddenly deafen us with their manipulative pleas for our custom.

[@takumi2023]

since i have a hearing disability i downloaded add-ons. try some extension on your browser they usually help. i wish there was a way to balance all the volume. Tom Scott did a video about volume recently explaining how it's not easy to balance it because of background noises making volume different audibly.

[@burrito-town]

Hey Matt, whoever is editing your videos is not using the correct settings to export them for KZbin. Take this video for example. Right click on the video and select “Stats for Nerds” where you will see that KZbin measures the audio in this video as 7.9 dB too quiet. You want that number to be at or close to 0.0. Anything below -5 dB is very noticeable. If your editor Googles “how to make sure audio is loud enough for KZbin”, they’ll see plenty of results to fix this problem.

[@samuelthecamel]

So that's why I had to increase my volume

[@TrystyKat]

The difference in audio levels between the music, Matt and Sammie made this unwatchable for me. :(

[@RepChris]

Ah, the "Parker export settings"

[@jasonsmall5602]

Agreed. Even @ 100%, this was too quiet, especially for Sammie

[@real_kdbanman]

meanwhile the music is deafening and abrasive

[@xxgn]

I always find it exciting when a model predicts something surprising and the model turns out to be right.

[@glenm9376]

I did a model for an Antarctic project and went to Antarctica to see the thing, then threw out my whole model and started again. Sammie is clearly very intuitive as well as a good scientist/mathematician.

[@Quarky_]

I completely understand why Sammie got upset. I worked on several CERN experiments for many years, but have only seen one of them, once!

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

It's like remote work but instead of a boring office with normal people in it it's something that humans can barely understand.

[@richdobbs6595]

This reminds me of when I implemented a SCRIMP mold filling simulation when I was working at Dow Chemical. I hadn't consciously thought about gravity effects on the mold filling, but I had included the terms in my equations. Low and behold, when I first ran the simulation with a complex geometry of the mold, it did indeed fill up the bottom and work its way to the top. I had expected that resistance of filling the media would completely dominate gravity effects, but in this case wasn't the case.

[@ax14pz107]

That's why it's so important to model things. What we model in our heads is filled with so much (necessary) generalization that it often doesn't fit reality outside human experience.

[@richdobbs6595]

BTW, SCRIMP was an acronym for Seemann Composites Resin Infusion Molding Process.

[@monabuu]

The thumbnail should have said „catastrophc maths” Cause all the i-s is melting

[@PilleniusMC]

Man, I love these videos. Just scientists geeking out about their work. Love to see those, want to see more.

[@geoffnet1]

The thumbnail is a Parkr square :)

[@standupmaths]

Thnks.

[@Magnasium038]

As a chemical engineer and modeller, it was fun to follow along the modelling and equations. Also, not sure if "CATASTRPHIC" in the thumbnail is intentional

[@leo.simensen]

It's a Parker Thumbnail - close but incorrect!

[@aaronr.9644]

it sounds like we are fckd :)

[@SparkDragon42]

The description says "as far as I’m aware everything in the thumbnail is spelled correctly"

[@thesnarkreactor]

Was wondering the same thing about the thumb nail.

[@2010AZ]

Lots of people saw the typo in the thumbnail, but no one noticing the masterful wojak pointing meme recreation ?

[@lowearthsurfer]

Soyjack

[@alexdasliebe5391]

Exactly! Saw the Wojack after seeing the thumbnail several times. I’m embarrassed.

[@thenayancat8802]

Fair play, I missed it

[@janesk1]

I didn't even notice the typo because of the soyjak recreation. My brain is DISEASED

[@DuringDark]

I think saying wojak as opposed to soyjak is appropriate here, his mouth is just barely ajar and as we know the jaw's angle θ ∝ |soy|

[@couch9416]

Nice typo in the thumbnail

[@LukeSumIpsePatremTe]

nOice!

[@Brainiacs0]

could say that was pretty…catastrphic

[@drewtheceo9024]

Calculatad

[@scottm85]

Right, I hate that part of me believes it's on purpose to drive traffic, which is sad...

[@MrConverse]

A parker catastrophe.

[@clenz93]

What a catastrphy of a thumbnail

[@QuinnKallisti]

Bait

[@kyleeverly9243]

That thumbnail pic was immaculate. Fantastic subject too! I havent seen pdes in a while, happy to see a real world use for models like that

[@MrMattie725]

I will never need this maths, but as an engineer I just love following and understanding these videos to keep my brain trained and entertained :D

[@Magnasium038]

Same, as a chemical engineer, it felt good to be able to intuitively follow the energy balances despite not having worked in this fields

[@rennoc6478]

@@Magnasium038how satisfying is a carrier in chemical engineering?

[@HelloIAmJo]

This video is really cool (haha), but the audio is SO quiet, and without subtitles me and my premature hearing loss are STRUGGLING

[@LmaoItsScrub]

All the CPOM Staff are lovely

[@IncroyablesExperiences]

Just to say you have the best jingle from all the channels I follow. I like it so much I usually listen it 10 times 😂

[@bertblankenstein3738]

There are interesting mountains as well. Sitting in the crater ring on Mt Rainier, the ground was too hot to stay seated. Meanwhile, there are 26 named glaciers on Mt. Rainier. Enough ice that if it were to melt suddenly places 50km away would flood.

[@Vallam23]

I was at Rainier last summer, very surreal to be in basically a winter wonderland while sweating in short sleeves

[@triton62674]

Absolutely insane how the maths predicted a very strange behaviour of the ice shelves!

[@DarkJMKnight]

Nicely covered. I'm only disappointed that at the end you didn't take a cup of ice and pour it into your glass to note the water level rise as a result of all that ice sliding into the glass. Yes, I know it'd've made a mess, I was looking forward to that! :~) heh

[@robertparkinson2102]

I like your idea of a glass with just ice. If this is presented again I'd suggest a long black wedge to represent rock under the shelf and glacier and a blue wedge for the water under the ice shelf.

[@claire2088]

What a great video! fascinating topic and th4e explaination was really interesting! Thanks Sammie for joining matt

[@evilotto9200]

"we have a model" pity for those of us excited to know what is in the box

[@IIARROWS]

**Se7en spoiler** Your wife's head.

[@GaryGraham66]

Glue and paint not included.

[@tykokavaak5784]

Where I work, it would certainly be a cat. The terrible part is that, unfortunately, the cat isn't always alive. And there's been... so many... boxes... For me, the mystery of the box no longer holds any appeal. The once exciting experience of receiving a parcel or a gift has been replace with anxiety, emotional turmoil, and existential dread. What's in the box? I'm not sure I'd want to know. ... Christmas didn't go well this year.

[@HMSTR1995]

I KNEW THAT WAS THE BISCUIT FACTORY. I can’t believe you were down the road from me. Hope you enjoyed our town that is not quite a city yet

[@andrewmartin3671]

I came here for this comment! I've even seen a couple of private events curtained off. I may have been in the same room! :O

[@jibster5903]

So I've seen a lot of people say the thumbnail has a typo, and while i'm inclined to agree, I have this nagging feeling he wrote a new book with a comically wrong title and this is going to be one of the topics in the book

[@Jablicek]

I thought it was to drive traffic from pedants (like me) who have a desperate urge to correct it - but who also might read existing comments first :)

[@privacyvalued4134]

The audio in this video is too quiet. And the video doesn't have subtitles either. I don't mind quiet audio as long as subtitles are available. I'm even fine with the KZbin automatic closed captioned ones, which, while not great, are better than nothing.

[@kneau]

Accurate observations. I wonder if the subject matter has delayed automatic features like closed captioning? This topic seems the sort to trigger an information panel about climate change, yet that's also nowhere to be found.

[@MeltCat_Amy]

I wanted to clarify something. Around 7:00, Matt marks off the pore closure depth on the shallower snow section, and keeps it at the same level as the deep snow section. Up until this point, I had been understanding the pore closure depth as being measured from the uppermost snow surface, so I would have expected the dashed line to be at a lower level than on the deep snow section. Is the snow nearest the primary lower ice level just being generally assumed to have the same packed density everywhere, or is the snow regularly cycled (blown away, etc)?

[@backwashjoe7864]

​@@MichaelOnines more likely, Matt just gave it a go, trying to be helpful.

[@johnclements6614]

In soils the density is effected by the depth and time at that depth. If there were large moving snow drifts and wind etc cut valleys I assume that the pore closure depth would vary due to the variation in loads.

[@pierreabbat6157]

"Icy," said the blind man, as he felt the frozen water.

[@jimmeade2976]

I clicked on this to see what CATASTRPHIC (sic) MATHS is all about. Matt and Sammie explained this quite well.

[@nathnolt]

Good video but the volume should have been way higher.

[@killingtimeitself]

its also just completely broken and peaking all over the place

[@jetkirby]

Found your podcast a problem squared recently, really enjoying it

[@realcygnus]

All KZbinrs should set their audio levels like advertisers.

[@reilandeubank]

Agreed, i could barely hear and ended up bailing on the video halfway through

[@celestial_crash0]

@@reilandeubank time to get a hearing aid

[@barneywhiffin1936]

KZbin normalizes the audio level, so the problem here would probably be with the background noise

[@realcygnus]

@@barneywhiffin1936 Thats true, still the fault of the youtuber though.

[@realcygnus]

@@celestial_crash0 Actually its not, my hearing is above avg for my age. Nor should we have to have it jacked up so loud in the 1st place such that the neighbors call the cops when it switches to an ad or just the next vid. Its 2024 & we have the technology to get it right on the 1st pass. 🤣

[@EliasMheart]

I would have added that Antarctica actually is a continent, and thus is not floating completely, thus it's adding ice cubes; not sure if that's obvious to everyone watching. But nice!

[@The.Talent]

I'm always excited when I, a mere engineer, can follow all of the math in a "complicated" math equation. Great work Sammie. I, like you, have never been to Antartica, though I'd really love to.

[@LoyalSage]

Maybe someone put too many heavy ice objects in the ice shelves. That’s usually why my shelves collapse.

[@alexanderrosulek159]

Facts

[@russmarkham2197]

@@alexanderrosulek159 Indeed ! heavy facts make ice shelves collapse

[@alexanderrosulek159]

@@russmarkham2197 how can we help them then

[@russmarkham2197]

@@alexanderrosulek159 I don't know. I am very sad about climate change and the likely destruction of our wonderful ecosystem and our global civilization. All I can think of doing is raising peoples' awareness of how serious the situation is. For example by commenting on these videos and replying to comments. Every little reduction in CO2 emissions or reduction in energy usage helps and increases the chances that a few humans will survive the coming collapse. Good luck to you.

[@cmelonwheels]

8:05 Guess That Variable is one of my favorite math games to play

[@mjiii]

The linked code is Matlab not Python as the video description claims

[@fedos]

Unacceptable. Unsubscribing.

[@davidi.levine6253]

When you show the blow-up of the equation, I’d love to see put the equation in words as well. This is wrong, but something like: “The rate of change of temperature over time (dT/dt) equals the change in temperature as we get deeper (dT/dz) times blah blah….”

[@murphygreen8484]

Seeing the artic or antarctic would be amazing!

[@23lkjdfjsdlfj]

Upvoted for the thumbnail. Makes me laugh every time :-)

[@ReaperUnreal]

Oh you were on one of the fancy new ships. I went last year on a ship from the 80s, great time.

[@gastonmarian7261]

Related to going out to see the thing you're making models of, I recently saw a post of a guy who was in an undergraduate philosophy program and started working out every day not for health benefits, but because he was concerned that otherwise he would "become lost in the world of signs and forget the things they signify."

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

Being friends with Matt must feel like having to defend a thesis except instead of the reviewer trying to verify every angle of your argument he's just gushing about how cool it is.

[@clovisthegreat7078]

Great work at JMM!

[@offgrid-bound]

Very interesting! Back in university, longer ago than I want to admit, I first got introduced to computers doing mathematical modeling. The models were much simpler, involving basic mechanics, and they matched reality… until they didn’t. Introducing a very small variation in the physical experiment would make the model and reality diverge, and over a fairly short time, completely out of sync. All this modelling is very interesting as an intellectual exercise. But after 35 years of writing software and modeling various systems, I can only give a word of caution: all models are wrong. Some are useful. Hope this one will be.

[@Marlosian]

@0:23 the curl in that eyebrow is just fa-bu-lous. We need a mathematical model of it!

[@TheUnknownFactor]

Brilliant!

[@dodaexploda]

This is the first time I've had to crank up the volume for Stand Up Maths. I'm wishing I had youtube prime now because ads are defining!

[@johnopalko5223]

Use an ad blocker. I haven't seen an ad for years.

[@plackt]

What are they defining, though?

[@dodaexploda]

@@plackt the amazing usefullness of tide pods of course!

[@dodaexploda]

@@johnopalko5223 nah, I'm totally ok with watching ads on KZbin. That's part of Matt's revenue, I wouldn't want to take that away from him.

[@ABaumstumpf]

What i find fascinating: So often you hear the claim that when the ice melts that would cause the ocean-levels to increase so much that coastal cities would be flooded. Roughly estimated we got ~30 million km³ of ice, and 360 million km² of ocean. Simple enough - that would be a bit under 100m of sea level under the (very false) assumption that all ice is fully on land and that the sea-area is constant. But water from melting ice is less dense than sea-water and the thermal expansion of the oceans also contribute a lot, leading to a sealevel increase of roughly ~60m. That would be a big impact.

[@sjiht0019]

Hahaha, I did a project on this for my minor in physics. Although we had some 'slight' assumptions. Like, there is only ice, it doesn't crumble and it is not taller than 60m. Oh yeah, and temperature doesn't exist 😂

[@kcmichaelm]

I couldn’t pay attention because i was just waiting for Matt’s elbow to knock his coffee onto his keyboard.

[@fuzzynine]

Thanks for the video, Matt. I'm so envious of you.... not willing to take a hike by ship further away than iceland. ^^ I've been watching the old video about the first documented mathematical error. And I am thinking about a concept about a board game called 'kushim'. Thanks for the inspiration. Do you work on more books? I ate Humble Pi and once in a while snack on Things to make and do... and so on. Thanks for the your great view on the world. ❤

[@O8Xx]

He has another book about "what to do in 4th dimension", but I don't remember exact naming. In my opinion this book is more about maths, but I still loved it with all the jokes and explanations by Matt)

[@EDLEXUS]

He mentioned in some videos that he is working on a new book about triangles, but this is probably far into the future

[@fuzzynine]

@@O8Xx yes it is. Thing to make and do in the fourth dimension. It is one of his two books that I own. And yes I kind of start reading it every half year or so. But following it up is hard because I can't math. ^^

[@fuzzynine]

@@EDLEXUS noice

[@michaelvandijk6490]

Could be used to model ground collapse when permafrost vanishes

[@VascovanZeller]

Hey, just a quick constructive point, ideally do an audio test next time so that the sound from the speaker or guest comes through clearly. People have a high tolerance for bad visuals, but a low tolerance for bad audio. Thanks!

[@Roamor1]

Thank you

[@gorddoggie3819]

Isn’t it summer in the southern hemisphere? Ice shelves like glaciers are always calving…

[@ShadSterling]

Another reason to care is the effects that melting ice into the ocean has on ocean currents

[@fabadabean]

Ah I wish LA were closer to SF, I'd have come to your show! Bummer. And contrary to popular non-Californian beliefs, we're quite far... 383 miles, only 20 miles less than the London-Edinburgh drive, for context

[@macbethy]

The ice sheets sound like they're nearly as unstable as the centre chair in the café background.

[@beutyindetail]

love the thumbnail, reminds me of something

[@RWBHere]

The spelling in your thumbnail is also catastrophic! 😉 Thanks for the video. 🙂👍

[@siquod]

I was hoping to learn something about the mechanism of ice sheet collapse, but all I got was something about the vertical structure of the shelf and nothing about how that relates to the collapse.

[@CLechleitner42]

Brilliant! Thx

[@evangiles4403]

So it works the same way as landslides on dry land - As the soil drys the soil becomes loser and once it rains as the soil expands again it starts to slide as the expansion causes the soil to break free

[@Stefan-mg5gl]

Here is the flaw of the ice cub melting experiment: the arctic and antarctic ice is sweet water. The artic and antarctic ocean is salt water. You melt sweet water into salt water. Sweet water has a lower density. It does makes a tiny difference.

[@mikepictor]

Really hoping we’ll see you on Nebula soon.

[@AtommSixtyFour]

thanks man

[@RSLT]

❤❤❤❤❤ another great video idea 💡 👏 👌 👍 accomplished well 👏

[@thecodemachine]

This video was definitely made to consider a trip to Antarctica as a business expense on his taxes .

[@andrest1976]

It's just the earth telling us that's it time for the world to refresh and it will start over.... Hopefully not too soon!

[@LVCMS]

I think the earth operates in timeframes that we can't comprehend. The energy available versus how we affect the available energy by our human acts will take a long time. My humble opinion.

[@glennshrom5801]

In the feed for this video we read about catastrphic maths. I know that in academia the maths and the letters folk don't always share each other's strengths, but this is an example of catastrphic splling.

[@dmytropopov2266]

Hey Matt - the link you have included is for a MATLAB code, not Python. (although may still be technically better than your python code)

[@standupmaths]

Cheers, I’ve fixed that with a description.replace(“python”, “MATLAB”)

[@zachwak]

Shout out MATLAB, 2nd love of my life

[@protossinator]

You're in LA this weekend??? I better clear my Sunday!

[@aeritsukii]

How would these equations transfer to Europa's potential subsurface ocean, in terms of the heat transfer and potential temperature gradient? 👀

[@WillToWinvlog]

I see you used a "Parker Thumbnail" for this one!

[@BuildinWings]

Misspellings increase engagement. I see you, sir.

[@jkid1134]

I guess I'm excited that the typo in the thumbnail wasn't some kind of joke I couldn't get yet, but there was no one moment where I realized it, just like a creeping probability, and in a way I almost wish there was a moment, even if it would make the thumbnail less special... Oh, hmm? Yes yes, ice shelves. Carry on.

[@johnclements6614]

I would assume that the ice lenses with in the ice shelf would promote rotational slips as it moved.

[@manuelpena3988]

The link in the description points out to matlab code, not python one.

[@desertpointshacks6299]

Hi Matt. I have jst come from your show tonight at the Cockpit Theatre. Had such a good time - it was a great evening and very funny. Thank you for giving us all so much of your time! I had a random question which i didn’t want to ask in front of the audience lol. However when you were talking about the Archimedean solids and you spoke about the truncated icosahedron which is often used to make a football it made me think. I’ve always wondered when you kick a football of this shape from left to right it will then bend from right to left in the air. However if you do the same with a smooth surface ball like the plastic ones I mess around with with my daughter, the ball bends the other way from left to right? Is there an interesting physics/mathematical reason behind this? It must be the way the air flows over different solids. Something to do with the Magnus effect but why it is different for a smooth ball I am not sure?

[@andrewkovnat]

The audio mixing could use some work in this video. Generally very quiet.

[@endrawes0]

That thumbnail is a catastrphe

[@bentfishbowl3945]

Was Matt planning this video back during the Antarctica trip?

[@Dogo.R]

I'd love to hear some comparisons between different potential solutions to sea rise. For example the dutch are extremely good at dealing with being below sea level aswell as having dense living. There is an astronomical amount of space left on the planet for human living and even more so if you do dense living like the dutch. And land loss can be pretented or even reclaimed like the dutch do. Explaining the "Why we should care" with "The sea level rises" without much more cost benefit analysis between solutions feels weird to me.

[@sockpuppet563]

Maybe if people like Matt here doesn't fly around everywhere..?

[@saoirsedeltufo7436]

This is really quiet Matt, especially Sammie's mic - just a heads up

[@notsatan5287]

In before the tumbnail typo gets fixed

[@standupmaths]

Oh dang. And I’m away from my laptop for a good few hours! I suspect this will not be the last comment pointing it out.

[@RadioactiveLobster]

Somewhere some stupid flat earther is like "But wait, you can't go to Antarctica." despite video evidence that you can in fact go to Antarctica.

[@wmaconick]

FYI the audio volume of this video seems to be low (maybe it's on my side but I double checked everything and didn't found anything)

[@dagordon1]

The same work could be done for permafrost and water tables or for petrology. BTW, we had a chemical engineering exam question that asked what would happen to the level in the glass as the ice melted…it stays the same due to part of the ice floating above, being lower in density.

[@rainaldkoch9093]

Not true for ice floating on the salty ocean, even without the complication of density change on mixing the melt water with the salt water: In the limit of infinite density of the ocean, the ice would be atop the surface, but by melting, the height would increase by the thickness of the layer of melt water.

[@mhelvens]

You dropped this: "o"

[@GamerLudwig]

18:28 this image is so cool imo you don't often see images where you can directly compare the size of a glacier to a cliff face

[@csours]

Melting ice is part of the sea level rise equation - there's also volume increase due to seawater temperature. I think you could do an explainer on that too - especially considering the shape of the ocean floor - volume vs surface area vs enclosing perimeter.

[@TimothyReeves]

as a note, the maximum density of water is at 4 degrees C, so the density is actually increasing from 0 up to 4C, then starts decreasing above that.

[@MrCardeso]

Catastrphic volume level.

[@RichardHolmesSyr]

There aren't many words in English with five consecutive vowels, but apparently CATASTRPHIC is one of them.

[@godfreypigott]

Perhaps learn what is a vowel and what is a consonant.

[@RichardHolmesSyr]

Perhaps learn not to be a jerk when someone makes a slipup. @@godfreypigott

[@godfreypigott]

@@RichardHolmesSyr _"I've just been embarrassed ... I'd better call him a jerk to deflect the issue away from me."_

[@byGDur]

For some reason, I was expecting a simulation using excel

[@PhilipKloppers]

Did you get to see the great ice wall barrier, or did the army/navy/airforce/space force turn you away before you got there? 🙈😜