Why Are The Sacraments of Initiation in the Wrong Order?

[@frshanedstevens8953]

Very well done Brother! As a parish priest, I could not agree more that it should be realigned.

[@danny_fanta_692_9]

I remember when I was a child I was thinking about the classes of receiving the sacraments and then I would think I was a priest I hope now I can think about it anyway.

[@splashpont]

Growing up in an "observant" family, I remember going to mass every Sunday with someone and desiring to receive Communion. My family would bring me up to the altar rail (age alert!) and I so wanted to receive Jesus (yes, I understood the difference between Eucharistic Bread and bread) but they would cover my face when the priest came by. I was so excited when finally fully allowed to partake in the breaking of the bread on the Lord's Day. That innocent faith was greater than the "understanding" I have today.

[@josephryan5949]

When I go to receive communion now, I think of it as receiving the body and blood of Christ as spiritual food or nourishment. Sometimes I am really hungry for that food, as I know how much I need it. It is a joy to become one with Christ.

[@everydayskills9495]

I received Baptism, Confirmation, and Communion in the same night when I was 9. I believe in all these taking place on the same night because Baptism completely washes you of all former sin. You can't be purer or more worthy than on the day of Baptism.

[@johntran8411]

Please have Closed caption - CC as it would be very helpful for English as Second Language speakers. We learn so much, Good job, ,Priest-soon-to-Be - Casey Cole.

[@RedRiverMan]

Surprising to see that some dioceses have returned to the ancient tradition. Glad Fr. Casey agrees with the older tradition. My mom who just returned to the church-in practice-after decades in protestantism was bothered that her grandkids could not receive the Eucharist. Why did we change it and when can we go back? If a child doesn't need to understand fully to be baptised why should she have to understand fully to receive Jesus when she is already a Chriatian?

[@JAHinHK]

8:55 - Essentially the same issue we have in Judaism around the Bar Mitzvah.

[@j.c.a.1101]

I had my first sacrament, ie Baptism few weeks after I was born...First Holy communion during my 3rd Grade and Confirmation when I was 11 or 12 years old. There was the Sacrament of Penance before taking my first Holy Communion.

[@pajimacas]

Same here... Confession first before First Communion...

[@aldrinlijo]

penance is always there before every sacrament, and even in other times, whenever you personally need it. So it doesnt come in under any order. this is about the order confusions.

[@drbirdleaf2574]

Same. But I left the church before confirmation so now I’m confused about how to go about confirmation before recently returning. Do I have to sit through a bunch of rica classes and just not attend the other sacraments? Does this mean I’m supposed to be avoiding the Eucharist now as an adult? This makes me fearful of attending mass.

[@cas2714]

@@drbirdleaf2574 I hope that you were able to find an answer to this question, but I would recommend speaking to a priest. To be confirmed in my parish, you would need to go through RCIA. However, there may be other parishes that have a different process. You can just email a local priest with your situation if you don't want to speak in person, and they will be able to help. Also, I have really enjoyed RCIA. I would not frame it as something that must simply be endured at all. You learn so much and it's great to have an extended time to ask all your questions as they come up

[@KT-xl8bw]

Episcopalian here...I really enjoy your videos...to borrow and paraphrase an old statement: almost thou persuadest me to be a Roman Catholic. Blessings!

[@jackmorrison7379]

Yes, he is a likeable sort (don't worry Friar, I won't add "for an RC") and some of the videos have application to other liturgical churches such as ours KD, with sacramental theology. But he "persuadest me not" to sound like our Rite One language. We and RC have a slightly different view and disagreement over the nature of the sacrifice at the Eucharist. The one and perfect sacrifice having been accomplished we say it is our sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving. We offer our souls and body up to the Lord. In the words of Paul so that He may live in us and we in him. It is the action of the Holy Spirit upon the elements effecting the change, and in our obedience to the command to do this in remembrance. Though we believe (as do Lutherans also) in Real Presence, for us it is a sacramental presence of God truly in the elements such that it is the Body and Blood without resort to Aristotle, an ancient pagan philosopher as with Aquinas and "transubstantiation".

[@Kitiwake]

@@jackmorrison7379 as if any of that was valid, pertinent it even interesting to us.

[@ppaaccoojrf]

@@jackmorrison7379 What do you think transubstantiation means.

[@jackmorrison7379]

@@ppaaccoojrf No, the term "transubstantiation" is from the scholastic philosophical writings of Thomas Aquinas, who uses the classical thoughts of Aristotle to develop his explanation of how the Second Person of the Trinity is really present body and blood. He lived in the late Middle Ages. Real Presence is a much older belief held in common with the churches of the East. Neither the Orthodox nor the "Oriental" Orthodox use that explanation then or now. It is an explanation for Real Presence in the elements and if you actually knew the history of Christianity you'd know it was not the term used in the First Millennium of the faith by East or West. In other words as the good priest-friar will confirm, explanation and divine presence are two different things as any philosophy or theology professor will tell you. If that was not so, then the first 1000 years of worship and the mass would be invalid because Thomas Aquinas and his explanation hadn't yet been born and written.

[@patrickgouker7746]

I believe that we should return the Sacraments of Initiation to their original order. As a high school senior, I agree that many of the youth use Confirmation as an exit from the faith, believing it to be the finale of the Catholic faith. I also believe that if one were to receive the Sacrament of First Holy Communion last it would emphasize the importance of that sacrament. Indeed, that is the sacrament which we should focus the most on as it is, according to the Catechism, the "source and summit" of our faith.

[@josemariamartincarvalhovon8853]

There are Dioceses like Denver and Honolulu that already done it.

[@patrickgouker7746]

I would not say that they have no faith. Instead, I would argue that they are simply going through a faltering in their faith. Can we blame them? I think not. I too went through a time where I questioned the faith. Why did I do this? Why do they do this? Often, I find that Cradle Catholics are the most susceptible to this as the faith and the Church become something of mind-numbing habit as opposed to a conscious choice. It is important to bring children up in union with the Church's teachings. However, it is, in my firm opinion, much more important to instill in people a true intentionality. We must allow children, converts, and whoever to intentionally seek out Christ. We must explain why the Church does what it does and teaches what it teaches. We have no right to judge people for falling away from the faith. But we do have the right, and the duty, I might add, to inspire faith within people. Let us all live our lives with true striving for Christ. Let us set the example for each and every generation to come. You see, if we become lax and lukewarm in our faith, if we treat our faith as something mind-numbing and repetitive, and if we treat the Eucharist as anything less than the extra-ordinary Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ that it is, well, then we become the heart of the problem. We set the precedence. So, let us allow the fire of the Spirit to burn bright within us. And, let us pray for an increase in the faith of all Catholics. That with an increase faith more young men and women will respond to God's call and live the vocations to the priesthood and religious life so that the faith of God's people, these young people, might be fostered.

[@josemariamartincarvalhovon8853]

Patrick Gouker Needless to say,The Parents are the First Catechists by Example.

[@djrn1621]

Patrick Gouker wow God bless you! Loved this!!! Completely agree and have experienced it myself! ❤️

[@manub.3847]

I remember my own first holy communion, yes grew up in the parish wanted to receive as a child the Holy Communion. We were prepared for this moment for months and formed much of the worship itself. I prepared our children as catechists in one of three groups for their own first holy communion. It was also an intensive learning experience for me.If one now looks at the actual course of a confirmation service, then this does not differ from the original course of the sacraments.Baptismal confirmation, Anointing by the Bischhof, Reception of Holy Communion.That some people fear that young people see this as a conclusion rather than a new start is, in my opinion, not because of the change, but because the whole social + religious environment has changed.If I look at the Evangelical Lutheran congregations (in my region), then I realize that while many young people go to the Confirmation, far fewer young people participate in church life. Since my parents were Catholic and Protestant, I have 30 cousins who have been confirmed Evangelical Lutheran, none of them and none of their children have actively participated in the church life, but only attended weddings, baptisms and confirmation services.

[@OkCatholics]

THANK YOU. This video is LONG overdue.

[@shortcake1967]

I was baptized as a baby and months later was confirmed, I was seven when I finally received Our Lord. Thank you, Father!

[@pajimacas]

Weird, this is how I remember receiving the sacraments (From the Philippines, studied in a Catholic School): 1. Baptism - no recollection of the event. 2. Confirmation (7 yrs old, 2nd Grade) - Afternoon, church was crowded, Bishop (I would think it was the priest, cause I don't remember him wearing a miter) put his hands on my head and face. No recollection if this was taught first in class. 3. Confession (7 yrs old, 2nd Grade) - morning, church doors were closed, the class lined up to a priest who was sitting on a separate pew. Taught first in classroom on what to do... 3. First Communion (7 yrs Old, 2nd Grade) - I remember the long preparation for this inside the church... We were basically being introduced to the whole mass, learning when to stand, sit, kneel, what response to give, practicing songs, etc. they used "Eggnog" biscuits as the host. Had to dance in front of the altar on the day of the First Communion...

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

pajimacas interesting! You’re the second person to say that about the Philippines. I wonder if it is more of a common practice outside of the US.

[@pajimacas]

Thanks... Just discovering your videos... Do you have anything about the Catholic teaching on divorce? Watched a video about how divorce hasn't been legalized in the Philippines and the first and foremost reason is being a Catholic country... But then Poland, Brazil and Italy have divorce, what's up with that?... Thank you very much... And God bless you Brother 😇

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

That's an interesting question. No, I haven't done anything on it yet but it might be worth it. While divorce is by no means a "good," it is also not necessarily a sin either. That is often misunderstood. Remarrying after being divorced is a different issue, but simply separating may or may not be.

[@pajimacas]

Breaking In The Habit Thanks Brother... Interesting reply... It seems the definition of "divorce" from your side of the world takes a broader sense to mean that the spouses have given up their marital obligations from each other... Our law here allows two kinds: 1. Legal Separation - marital obligations cease and conjugal properties are split but it doesn't invalidate their marriage, hence they cannot remarry 2. Annulment - marriage was invalid in the first place so they can marry a second time. Divorce here means the former marriage was valid but once separated--like a termination of a contract--they can legally remarry...

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Yes, we have the same distinction, although only in Church terms. Legally, according to the state, there is 1) separation and 2) divorce.

[@tbw980371]

I really respect your scholarship in this.

[@cplunajr745]

In my seminary years, this has been a contentious discussion, not only among seminarians but also among the clergy. I remember one time, the discussion went on for hours even after the class. We were split into two camps. Debating how the order should be and how it must be understood. Finally, we all got heated up when one of the seminarians called the Vatican 2 the invention of Satan. Ughhh 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@pryhosm]

you really tackle some great topics. Keep it up Padre!

[@danielcavoli7684]

Congratulations on your recent ordination, Fr. Casey, & best wishes for continued success in your ministry as a Franciscan! One minor correction: The official Sacramentary of Rome in the early Middle Ages would have been the ORDO ROMANUS (or actually, to be more accurate, the ORDO ROMANVS). Thank you for an excellent explanation of the history of the Sacraments of Initiation with a mind-blowing wealth of information in record time & not a wasted word! As always, you do us a great service.

[@mariolamcgrath8930]

Amazing clarity and honesty.

[@josemariamartincarvalhovon8853]

Brother Casey: I am very thankful that the Archdiocese of Denver and other places have a Restored Order of Christian Initiation. This really proves that the Eucharist is always the "Source and Summit" of the Mission of The Christian Life.

[@juliarose4486]

This is really interesting to me! I was Baptised as a baby, and then I had confirmation and first communion on the same day, 10 years ago, aged 8. However, I was confirmed by a priest, not a Bishop, because we didn't have a Bishop at the time.

[@UnlikelyLDS]

I think the changes that Pope St. Pius X made were good in regards to the reception of the Eucharist, cause I don't know about y'all bit the Eucharist really gives me strength.

[@nataliabenoit4653]

Malik Ore i love the Eucharist and adoration i cry everytime it sounds weird but i just cant help it that im alive by this grace of God being intimate with me who is nothing but its deep and different everytime but its amazing to hear your feelings about it so cool how we are all part of this and how everyone participates in a different way and when men cry taking it i dont feel as bad to express my weakness in needing God its like there strength to cry makes me feel strong enough to just let go

[@UnlikelyLDS]

Natalia Marcondes I don't really cry, but the best way to describe it is that I tremble on the inside. I know that I am looking at God himself when I behold the eucharist.

[@nataliabenoit4653]

Malik Ore wow thats beautiful thank you for sharing your encounter tremble is also a great expression of how it feels to be embraced by the Almighty please pray for me ill pray for you as well God bless

[@UnlikelyLDS]

Natalia Marcondes I will, dominus vobiscum!

[@vinceperez3694]

In the Philippines, there are different orders of the sacraments of initiation, it depends of the school your studying. For example, me, at St. Paul College of Parañaque, Reconciliation - Grade 3, Eucharist - Grade 3, Confirmation - Grade 9. At Rogationist College, Reconciliation - Grade 3, Eucharist - Grade 3, Confirmation - Grade 6, etc.

[@metacarpitan]

I had my first communion at 9 years old, but I never did my confirmation. It is a bit weird that you can have the communion without having the confirmation.

[@turnershelton7920]

I was recently received into the Church and had my first communion. My priest also confirmed me, is this a valid confirmation?

[@AndrewCasad]

Turner, yes, the Code of Canon Law and the RCIA explicitly states that when a priest either baptizes or receives an adult into the full communion of the Catholic Church that that priest has and must exercise the faculties for confirmation. Congratulations on your reception into the full communion of the Catholic Church and thank you for enriching the Church by your witness!

[@turnershelton7920]

@@AndrewCasadThat's what I thought but some one who I respect in the faith said it wasn't a "true" confirmation so I just wanted to double check. Thank you!

[@daenithriuszanathos9306]

I was thinking... let's pretend that the Roman Catholic Church moves Confirmation to an earlier period, perhaps even following the practice of our Orthodox brethren. In this setting, catechesis wouldn't have to end the moment a person is Confirmed. In fact, growing in one's faith even as one learns more about it is encouraged as a lifelong endeavour. I mean, I received my Confirmation in 7th Grade and X (shhh...) years later I'm still learning so much about the Faith. Perhaps we don't have to see Confirmation as the end of one's formation, but as the beginning to a lifelong journey. Just a thought.

[@mollywithak1697]

I’m 15, and I’ve recently rejected my Protestant upbringing on theological grounds. I believe that either the Catholic or Orthodox Church is the one original church, preserved through the centuries. I’m tempted to incline towards Catholicism, but one of the things holding me back is exactly what you explain here in this video. It seems with several issues like the Orthodox most closely resemble the church of the Apostles, because where the Roman rite seems to take doctrines and adapt them for convenience, the Orthodox hold on to the original faith. With this case in particular, I think if one is to accept paedobaptism, one also needs to accept and encourage paedocommunion. However, other things make a lot more sense with Catholicism. I don’t really know which church to turn to.

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Hi Molly, thanks for your comment. I'm happy to help in any way you like as you go on this journey. If I may add my own two cents, I'm not sure if looking for the "one original church" is necessarily the best route to go, or if it is even possible. On the one hand, neither Church resembles the Church of the Apostles--they spoke a different language (even if they spoke Greek, it was a different form), they did not have any structures of organization, any systemized theology, lived in a world of state persecution, and so on. Most will argue that there was no such thing as "one original church," as it developed from many different perspectives and practices, and that what is "orthodox" only emerged later once it began to define itself. Either way, it inevitably changed over the years, and one could definitely argue that both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are legitimate descendants of that "one original church." On the other hand, what's important is not that we literally exist as the early Church did but that we carry out its mission in the modern world. When looking for what you find to be truth, I would recommend looking beyond the externals and try to get to the heart of the issue: which Church best keeps alive the spirit of the apostles? If Jesus were walking the earth today, what would he do? The mission is always inculturated into a time and place, taking on human form, and so it will look different over time and in different settings. What is important is not the specific rites, the language, the hierarchy, etc., but how it lives the mission. Hope that helps!

[@mollywithak1697]

Thank you so much for your response! I’ve been watching your videos for a while now, and they’re part of what encouraged me to look further into what the Catholic Church actually teaches (along with Fr. Mike Schmitz). I think I understand sort of what I’m supposed to look for in the church-by your fruits you will know-but my issue is that I feel so far out of my depth. I believe in the True Presence and since I was baptized when I was 11, I’m aching to receive Jesus and his graces in the sacraments, but I know I can’t join either church until I know which one I believe is the pillar and foundation of the truth. I’ve kind of been stuck lately reinventing the wheel, trying to sort through what councils on both sides have already done so I can be in communion with the Church. I’m reading the Catechism through right now, and also some of the Apostolic Fathers. I desperately want to surrender myself to Jesus, and I’m even working on converting my older sister to whatever it is I am now, but I don’t know which church *does* best embody Christ’s message-East and West each seem to have their perks in that regard.

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Molly Katherine Cornett That’s really awesome! I commend your faith and hard work to be with Jesus. If I can offer one more bit of advice: don’t forget about the people of God. Being Christian is not just about one’s private beliefs or faith. *Especially* for Catholics and Orthodox Christians, faith is lived in the community, something we do together. Make sure you’re forming relationships, hearing from believers, and picking a place that not only fits your head (intellect) but also your heart (social relationships). Do you actually feel like these people are your brothers/sisters?

[@mollywithak1697]

I’m trying to form relationships with people in both groups. I don’t know many Catholics personally, other than who I’ve met reaching out to inquire about RCIA, but I have some good friends who are Orthodox. I’ve been praying that I would have the right influences in my life. If you asked me who my priest is, I would say Father Justin, the Orthodox priest whose Liturgy I’ve attended. However, if you asked me who my bishop is, I would say Bishop John, who is the Catholic Bishop here in town. One of the things I find more appealing in Orthodoxy is the sense of fellowship (for example, after Liturgy they eat a communal meal together as opposed to just leaving). My parents are pretty upset about my exploring of different faiths, though, so I’m not allowed to attend Mass or Divine Liturgy pretty much at all since I told them I was considering converting. I want to sit down and talk to them about it, but I’m afraid I can’t until I know what I believe and why I believe it, so I don’t seem misinformed and set a bad example in their minds.

[@mollywithak1697]

Richard2815 I love Lizzie! She’s actually the denomination I was raised in, so her witness has been such a blessing to me 😊

[@christopherhennigan9834]

Thank you Father, well done!

[@AdrianSpencerElizalde]

As far as I know, there is no standard practise in the Philippines. At our Parish, it is: 3rd Grade - Penance; 4th Grade - First Communion; 5th Grade - Confirmation.

[@patricksmith3135]

This was (is) perfect. Either way works for me (too).. God's Blessings on You.

[@SaintlySaavy]

I like confirmation late in high school. It makes sense to me as a preparory measure and moment of reflection for the trials ahead at that age

[@greydaze234]

My church (not diocese, apparently, I didn't see it on your list) changed their order to Confirmation before First Eucharist when I was in 8th grade, so those of us who were between 7 and 16 were expected to get confirmed that year as well. Perhaps I am misremembering (it was a long time ago, after all), but that gave me about 6 months of youth group meetings to learn (for lack of a better word) everything before the sacrament. Even then, I felt it was very rushed, I still didn't truly understand what was happening. My parents even told me the weekend of my Confirmation that if I didn't feel ready for it, I didn't have to go through with it right then. I did it because, 13 year old brain, "Eh, whatever." But I don't actually feel like I understood my faith until college. After college, in a different diocese, they still celebrated Confirmation in 8th grade, if you attended the Catholic School (as there was no Catholic high school in town), and the kids there went through a 2-year, once-monthly class to prepare. I volunteered to help teach for the 2nd year for a particular group of kids, and I learned so much more then than I remember learning in my own youth group meetings.

[@jamesburraston9524]

Teaching is often the best way to learn something.

[@elizabethzierke4733]

Thank God for Teens Encounter Christ program and the grace of God for young people today. Also Focus students on campus. Of course your utubes for everyone else plus Bishop Barrons Word on Fire, Fr Larry Richrds, Fr John Riccardo ewtn etc. Thank you.

[@jairocv]

Thank you! Great explanation.

[@ericyork5696]

Well stated and reasoned, as usual.

[@mahibbardbre]

Thanks so much -- this video really helped this Protestant to connect some dots in Catholic practice.

[@tominrichmond]

As a father of 5, I heartily support the move to restore confirmation to an earlier age, so the graces of that sacrament are available to pre-teens. I think however that St. Pius X had it correct that the Holy Eucharist should be reserved for the age of reason. I also agree with Pope Pius XII, who warned of an archaelogism that views mere antiquity of a practice as a reason to return to it. There are important reasons for liturgical development by natural process of tradition, and a mechanistic, non organic tinkering, such as what happened after the Council (but not necessarily in accord with the Council's teachings) is the furthest thing from a Catholic approach to liturgy.

[@carpentermja]

I'm from the UK and I've just received your book, looking forward to reading it. Hope you're well Brother Casey.

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Excellent! Hope it's helpful for you!

[@palaxa]

@@BreakingInTheHabit What book?

[@collazo49]

thanks for the clarity

[@albertodeangelis9291]

I have been godfather of baby girl in greek cattolic church and she received al three sacraments together.

[@elizabethzierke4733]

Good explanation of why we see so many differences in diocese. Parents should play a important role in education and decisions but that too has fallen on bishops.

[@WilliamDu-k7s]

So is there an order or not?

[@carpentermja]

I agree with you 100%

[@marcihf9763]

Thanks for the explanation. 💝

[@8543960]

So, I'm still a little confused. 😁 I grew up Catholic and attended CCD in grade school in the early '80s. I have a vivid recollection of my first communion well before being a teenager (I want to say at 8 years old so around 1982) but have no memory of confirmation. There was a long span in my life afterwards where I was more or less a lapsed Catholic and didn't attend church very often. At this time period is it possible my first communion was also my confirmation? What should I do if I actually was never confirmed? Father Heberle is long passed but would the (small) church have a record?

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

All churches keep a record of sacraments, and the church of your baptism is required to collect all of them in one place. I would check there if you have any question. It is possible that you received the sacrament of confirmation at that time, but I think that it is highly unlikely. I'm not sure of any dioceses that were doing it at that time. If you were not, in fact, confirmed and would like to be, you should see your parish priest and set that up. Your situation is not one covered by the RCIA and do not require any waiting people. If deemed ready, you could be confirmed at any time.

[@8543960]

Breaking In The Habit Thanks Brother Casey. I'm going to spend some time today with the Marians at the Divine Mercy Shrine in Stockbridge. I've lived in the area all my life but never realized how beautiful a place it is. Maybe it's just my proximity but I've developed an interested in the Divine Mercy devotion.

[@traditionalcatholic274]

What do you think about the most holy family monastery are they catholics ?

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Don't know much about them, but I'm not really in the business of deciding if someone is Catholic or not. If Rome says they're Catholic, that's fine with me. I think we're a big tent Church that can fit a lot of different types of spiritualities and theologies.

[@RedRiverMan]

@@BreakingInTheHabit you are why I love the franciscans and am s glad for their witness in our church. As an African American Catholic who is fervent in the faith and rooted in my African American traditional expression I really dig what you said about us being a "Big tent Church." We are a big tent and have always been (if not in all places) and I praise God for it!

[@hobbiton64]

Very interesting video :)

[@jonbold]

"There are good reasons to support a variety of actions." None of which have anything to do with Christianity. Good video.

[@thebackpackerph]

wow... i got kinda confused... and im no longer sure if this is across the entire philippines but as far as I recall I received the sacrament of confirmation first before my first communion... so as my niece and nephew they got confirmed last year and got their first communion last month... so some get to have their first communions first?

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Interesting! Maybe some dioceses outside of the United States have gone with the restored Order as well!

[@jamesbatsis9762]

It talks about it a lot in the didache, which was written in the 1st century ad

[@art1208]

This is an interesting and informative video. Something puzzles me, though. When I was preparing for marriage, I asked my parents when I was confirmed. They told me I was confirmed as an infant on the day of my baptism. I inquired with the parish where the sacrament was administered and they have my confirmation date on record and issued a corresponding certificate, which the parish of my wedding accepted. I was told by both parishes that my confirmation was valid. This was in 1975 in the Philippines. Today a person needs to be at least 12 yo in to be confirmed here in the Philippines. Do the local bishop’s conference determine the age for confirmation?

[@junepaologuarin8762]

I recieved first communion not in my teens.

[@MarkHyde]

The Orthodox approach can be a starting, initiation stage - BUT could be supplemented with 'renewals of the faith' at age 7 and 16 - creating a continuing culture of growth of life and faith. Not 'culmination' but a 'continuing' in the faith, taught age appropriately at each stage of course.

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

Eeeeexxxxactly....bravo....even the Mormons do this in a very, very organised way.....

[@michaelcaza6766]

Baptism and Chrismation in the Byzantine church! Babies receive baptism and Chrismation (confirmation) and communion.

[@Tsalagi978]

Eastern Churches Catholic and Orthodox already and have always done it that way. Infants receive all 3 Sacraments (Sacred Mysteries) at the same time. Catechesis is life long really.

[@alhoward4443]

I am worried that the generation, who are having children now, are already a lost generation, and with the "end" of initiation, they'll never be led (or dragged) to further either their own, or their children's growth, or even attendance, in the Church.

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

Many bishops want the order restored...they are correct...

[@culturecoroner]

Fascinating. I’m happy to know this isn’t a black-and-white issue. #scruplesarereal 😂 I completely agree with you on this matter. Even as I was going through the rites as a child, the sseparation and order confused me. I just didn’t know why at the time. This makes more sense.

[@RedRiverMan]

i prefer the eastern custom of every baptised person receiving all te sacraments of initiation at once and ever after baptism. never understood why we changed it in the west. I think children should be ablle to receive and I assumed we were following protstants by waiting til after 7 yrs for communion.

[@stevenpatrickstone766]

Baptism after birth is fine. I received Holy Communion at 7 years old....that was fine too. I was Confirmed at 14 ....but I definitely don't think Confirmation should be given at that age. It should be given when one has made an adult, educated decision to remain Catholic. In my case, that only happened recently at age 28.

[@BreakingInTheHabit]

Again, one has to ask what the point of confirmation is. So often we believe it to be this mark of maturity in which one can speak for themselves. But up until very recently, that was not the case. Baptism was simply the sealing of one's baptism with the Holy Spirit, a "confirmation" by the bishop of a valid baptism. What you describe is important, but it's a life-long journey of constantly saying yes. We find ourselves routinely in new depths of faith, new awakenings, "born again" as some would say.

[@nataliabenoit4653]

Steven Patrick Stone i feel it should be younger with confirmation because it is what confirms you in the gifts of the Holy Spirit and your patron Saint prays non stop for you to come to church to be good and so you get more then a gaurdian angel praying but a saint and gifts of the Spirit who doesnt want that?😁lol we are spoiled by our God who goes beyond the cross and we shouldnt take what belongs to children i think its wrong to take gifts and sweetness from a child and if the church extends the age we would be taking candy from a child a gift from a child that belongs to them in order to nurse them to ever lasting life as if its already so difficult to be Christian these days if they arent armed with this sacrament of confirmation it will be even harder to get thru this battle we have in this world but of course your entitled to how you feel its just no child should be without armour in this battlefeild God bless

[@louellamenezesmascarenhas6301]

I recently cmae to know that JesusChrist was baptised when He was 30 Years. Why is Baptism now done to an infant?

[@jamesbatsis9762]

Because St. John the Baptist couldn’t have baptised Christ when he was an infant himself. Baptism is like welcoming someone to the family of Christ, you don’t wait until someone is an adult to welcome them into your family whether in Christ or by blood

[@BurgerDumpling]

who else is here for school? Good luck with that essay

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

...do all at Baptism....... solemn informed Communion Day as large group....

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

Respect the East and do all Baptism then have formal 6 months catchesus at 12-13 leading to solemn infirmed Vommunion Day as a karge griup at the cathedral....

[@PrezidentHughes]

Sounds like the Oxthodox do it similar to some Protestants.

[@Lestade42]

I'm not a fan of baptizing children, because the baptism is a huge personal decision and an infant has no grasp of the implications behind it.

[@Tsalagi978]

No. We’re all born into sin and baptism is regenerative. It’s why parents or godparents are required. You’re raised up in the faith from the beginning. Your reasoning sounds like something from the Zwingli camp and isn’t found in the early Church Fathers nor scripture. In fact, whole households were baptized into the faith including children and infants.

[@pottingsoil]

So, what do we do about the Jews, bois?

[@PrezidentHughes]

Sounds like the Oxthodox do it similar to some Protestants.