Why are these types of MMOs dead?

[@sawmanUK]

Thanks for watching! For more dead MMO reviews, leave a like and feel to suggest some games below! Also I have a website: www.dogwatergaming.com

[@Dafoodmaster]

Do you have a video on Shaiya? If you do have one or will make one, i promise i'll subscribe, and i'll make my little brother as well (he actually played it)

[@Kkffoo]

I am amazed at the sheer amount of work that has gone into building this terrain, only for the game to be abandoned, and this is a game that is still, just about, accessible. It makes me think of of all the games which were never released at all, their ghostly landscapes never to be visited.

[@SakiStargazer]

I would love to play a game like that, but only if there is a decent playerbase and I think this is also a problem. You have more Scifi or fantasy themed MMOs and that's a majority of the things people are interested in. I don't even know a lot wild west games that aren't MMOs beside Red Dead

[@kizersoozie]

Westerns seemed to dominate the TV screen when I was a kid growing up, and I loved them. I still play Outlaws of the Old West (nearly 600 hours of playtime), and I'm still enjoying it. From what I read, the two-person development team was bought out by a company with deep pockets, who then abandoned the game. Very disappointing, as I felt the game had a lot to offer.

[@italian504]

The problem with a sandbox MMO in the current year is that the game requires a substantial amount of reoccurring players to produce the content more than the devs. It is why "Theme Park" mmos are still more populated because the playerbase does not have to 'create' the content. Especially now with how attention spans are in the new generation, trying to give a kid a shovel and "imagination" will lead them to drop the game 20 minutes in with no clear direction back to a game with an already established fanbase or playercount. It's hard to sell a sandbox mmo in general too. There is also a bigger fear of FOMO as those who start early and first establish the rules. establish the do's and don't and more importantly claim everything before you arrive a year or two after it launches. Then you wonder why it's so hard to start with no one playing because those who "Beat" the game have already left or they just got bored with no true challenge anymore. Say what you will about games like wow, runescape, ff14, even ESO and Destiny 2. They thrive because people still play them en mass. They do update to add new challenges or carrots to chase. reasons to log back in. reasons to do group content (Albeit less than the earlier years) and reason to preserve your character and accolades with external flair like badges, titles, home decor and more. The sandbox MMO isn't dead but it surely isn't really thriving as many want to admit...and it's sad when devs do the bare minimum for these kind of games and leave them to die soon after launching.

[@PolumbiusTheThird]

i dont think mmo's are very popular with newer generations.

[@italian504]

@PolumbiusTheThird mmo popularity is a whole other issue entirely. I speak just currently about the state of specifically sandbox types. I see new people and younger ones clinging to games like ff14 a lot recently because there is an already established group of people well known. Marketing is aggressive, and it's far easier to get into than others. There isn't even a true FOMO outside of one thing from PVP every so often. The genre as a whole has been on a decline for years since roughly 2016. Newer generation of gamers are being raised on instant gratification with things like loot boxes, gacha mechanics and games having too much flash and boom for every little thing you do, and that is the core issue I hinted at before. Patience and time to learn and teach

[@NecroBanana]

Lotta yappin

[@reptilez13]

I completely disagree with the first part. Sandbox games are more popular than ever - it's just many don't want to bother with a persistent world. Garrys Mod and Minecraft are still popular as hell. But having the sandbox MMO does require the players and with non-mmo sandbox games, it takes consistency, people actually wanting to play something new, and an insane amount of unique coding and design. Theme park MMOs are far more rigid, easier to squash bugs, and people can just hop on every expansion and blow through the content, the publisher gets the huge influx for the shareholders and bam. A sandbox MMO also has a slow, swelling fan base. UO still has players, especially on private servers, but it's always been slow to gain and faster to lose players. Hell, OSRS is like a sandbox-theme-park mix and it's only growing lately. It could be done, just not as a huge AAA WoW level game anymore. Gaming is far too segmented and split into highly specific niches. If you want XYZ game but with A, no B and a splash of G, you got it along with the 100-500 other people who do regularly want that same thing. Gaming is bigger than ever, but also segmented as ever. That's a huge hurdle for dumping a crap load of money into a single idea that requires players and servers and devs long term, when the competition is 10000 highly specific games specifically designed for all the potential customers. Theme Park MMOs get around this by taking way less commitment, can again blow through whatever new content and then suspend your account til the next one. SandboxMMOs can't do that, and sandbox RPGs or survival games are a huge alternative. Simple as.

[@BadWallaby]

@@PolumbiusTheThird if you think about the definition of MMO, Roblox and games like Rec Room are the new generation of sandbox mmo and they’re massive.

[@smokercat]

I like watching explorations of dead MMOs, especially ones where there player-made structures. It's kinda eerie. and to answer your last question: as a long time MMO player, I wouldnt play a wild west mmo, but only bc i dislike wild wests and much prefer a fantasy setting for my MMOs, which I assume is the mainstream preference with MMO players

[@sawmanUK]

Fantasy for sure is more mainstream, but I think the Wild West has potential

[@fu102]

Your deadpan humor is great. Keep going man.

[@sawmanUK]

[@DrMurdercock]

As an American, you take an accent like yours, mix it with some sad sounding music and some cheesy dialogue and you have gold lol. Something about that accent to us American's that is just relaxing and soothing. I have thought about it for years as to why and I think its because it's obviously English....but it's just slightly different enough to make it more engaging and pleasing to hear. Almost like a pretty singing voice only you're just talking. Hope that made sense and hope that I myself didn't get too cheesy. Love the content man. Glad I found the channel

[@KUPSMusic]

Dope video man, you should try Fallen Earth Classic next. Would be cool to see someone other than josh covering it.

[@sawmanUK]

Yea someone suggested it last video and from what I've seen, it has a cool fallout esque vibe to it. I might have to give it a go

[@KUPSMusic]

@@sawmanUK Sounds good Ill for sure be here for the video.

[@rept7]

That intro is dripping with so much sarcasm, I think it's causing water damage to the floor.

[@sawmanUK]

[@mrsmith5114]

Trying to craft items while standing still and getting attacked is pretty wild :P Good video.

[@LikaLaruku]

If you ever do RIFT, please get as far as Morban. It's the most hauntingly beautiful & spooky zone I've ever seen in a game.

[@wildejagd]

The issue from my perspective is that RDO was poorly monetized. All you need to do is purchase the game. You can get every role, every item, by simply playing the game. Its awesome. It also has no revenue stream. Therefore no development.

[@Nekros-t9e]

8:34 the choice of music is top tier

[@gilsonsilva5811]

KZbin just decided to indicate you channel today and I was curious about the minimal existence of mmo with western theme... Well, as someone who loved the good things about RDR2online, I need to say, it hurts... oh, my gosh, it hurts to remember what happened to that game. Personally, I played the official RDR (never tried the RP) as a MMO, despite if it was or not a MMO. I mean, we had some gameplay loopings and the game had much potential for that... and well, it was a Rockstar game and didn't produced the same luck that GTA online did... always good to remember that GTA online was never actually planned to live more than the original.

[@wildphilpresents]

I played Outlaws quite a bit when it dropped. We had a huge server that I was an admin on that was a Roleplay server. This game...like many other Wild West MMO's requires people. What Makes RDR2 so good is the stories, random findings, and the depth of the world. Without people making those in these games, the world feels vapid and empty. There's no purpose in the world without the people or the random PoI's. What killed RDR2 Online (and in turn RDR1 online) was the open-world pvp. While on paper, open PVP looks good and realistic, in video games there's no morals, guilt, or penalty for being a murder hobo. This is what kills all pvp-based MMOs. In real life, you have the opportunity to murder hobo, but there's long term consequence and guilt and value of life etc. When you take that away, open PVP just becomes a troll-fest which drives people out. The players need to work together because otherwise there's no NPC's, no quests, no jobs, no stories, nothing. That's why these fail. Name a successful open PVP MMO...I'll wait...

[@jabba969]

I think the wild west theme is difficult to make an MMO out of with stuff like dungeons, raids, gear progression etc. It is more suited to a sandbox survival game or a story game IMO.

[@cobyskrilla119]

You should look into the FiveM and RedM GTAO and RDO servers. If I'm not mistaken that area is till flourishing in both, and both often have servers with a few hundred people logged in at a time.

[@michaelthomas5433]

How many table top Western based RPG's are there? I can only think of Boot Hill, but I'm sure there were a few more. Point is no large enough base ever wants to play them. Add in the fact that any sandbox MMO will fail without a large number of players and there you have it. It's a sad fact.

[@TheGoobMeista]

The closest thing to a Wild West MMO is RedM. it has the player housing, Player owned businesses, Eating/Drinking, Bandit/Sheriff, Wayyyy more i can go into detail about, I think the reason why no Wild West MMO's are around is because one, it takes upwards of 40, 50, sometimes 60+ million dollars to have a proper and stable MMO. There isn't a huge market for Wild West themed stuff in general. So i think if you combine the fact that you not only need millions and millions of dollars, but also just a lack of wide interest in Wild West/Cowboy Style Games, Let alone MMO's, it becomes a very very risky idea that has a high chance of flopping.

[@sawmanUK]

Maybe I should review RedM 👀

[@TheGoobMeista]

@@sawmanUK It is just like the FiveM client, The only thing is; it can be pretty grindy and the best server's typically have a long queue unless you're whitelisted. I will always prefer RedM over FiveM. people actually turn RDR2 into an MMO more so than it means to. I've also seen servers with 100+ - 150+ people at a time in multiple servers.

[@TheGoobMeista]

People tend to take RedM more serious as well.

[@Unchainedful]

RedM depends on the server. Most servers have very dumb ass admins that will ban you for anything or if their friends just don’t like you.

[@TheGoobMeista]

@@Unchainedful So far every server i've tried has been nothing short of amazing. I'll keep ya posted if i find a bad experience though.

[@Thelos90]

About Red Dead Redemption (1/2) and GTA 5 being no MMO ... uhm, yeah i mean what are the server slots, 16? at max 32? lets say 64. Thats no MMO. Great video!

[@Larpus]

Your channel was recommended to me here in Brazil. You should think about adding subtitles to your videos, it would help a lot. We lack good MMORPGs, so people are still sticking to the old ones. I was hoping this year would bring a lot of new ones, but so far, I'm disappointed. Just hoping to see some good MMORPGs to build a whole life in.

[@NecroBanana]

@@Larpus Play UO Outlands

[@MrBasforce]

I'm from Roze Resyndicated good content man

[@JRLastActionHero]

Subscribed your SARCASM is on point sir 👌 absolute 🔥

[@anonymously94]

That elden ring final boss theme as you fight the cougar was just hilarious. I love your content, subbed

[@Tramyofficiel]

Hi from france, really happy to discover your video ! Love it !

[@IWreakHavoc]

You should review legends of aria! I loved that gane, not sure why it never really got popular

[@Iridescence93]

I'd be totally down to try a wild west version of EVE Online. Just replace the ship with a horse. You can trade/PVP explore/ Same sorts of things work. It'd be easy to develop some sort of in depth skill system. That game could be awesome.

[@youngphil8766]

A comment for ya bois algorithm bump! Subbed lil brosnan

[@sawmanUK]

🥹👍

[@SRMC23]

I think these will always fail because at it's core is just trying to emulate the setting of a typical cowboy movie instead of being the actual adventure in the frontier. it was more than just saloons and people chasing trains on horseback. it was families going into the unknown because they promised riches if they successfully settled in, charting the place, interacting with the natives which had been for some time been adopting a lot of the techonology of the colonists at the same time. Heck, the game doesnt even have to be like the American MidWest expansion, it could have a different vibe with maybe different empires trying to expand into this untapped wilderness. but no, let's try to make our best Clint Eastwood movies impression while not making anything that catches the eye in terms of gameplay.

[@sawmanUK]

I think you are spot on in your assessment, I mean more people died from cholera then guns 😹

[@Singecku4K]

Goodmorning and I'm new here and appreciate your videos ❤

[@sawmanUK]

@@Singecku4K why thank you

[@eggandcress69]

mate not to compare you to josh strife but, your videos are excellent quality and I can see you flying in subs

[@sawmanUK]

@@eggandcress69 i appreciate it

[@NoobNCyan]

love the what sounds like 3008 roof song audio

[@tedcruzwiththetopdown5411]

American here. It's just not unhinged enough. The game needs a steam powered Dodge Challenger Hellcat towing a giant canon along the railroad tracks. (Interactable) More interesting enemies are also needed. Gun slinging monkeys that escaped a traveling circus would be perfect.

[@Z-MACx]

Dude. Your video editing skills are phenomenal. Where do you get all the random clips of movie footage??

[@AZodiacCancer]

Unfortunately what Red Dead Online 2 showed us is Rockstar likes their Golden goose more than their Cowboys. The forced PvP in RDO turned me off and it got real toxic even in pve missions where people would grief you plus the rampant cheating with Kronus on console. It's sad because that game could have been great if Rockstar invested in it. Because RDR2 story was fantastic.

[@FatherLamb]

The only game that had SERIOUS potential but died was HEAT.

[@cronicneurotic4706]

Yeah It seems no-one really heard of it, such a shame

[@fernandoaugustofernandesar7621]

get well soon, need more opinions on throne and liberty from my favorite MMO expert

[@sawmanUK]

@@fernandoaugustofernandesar7621 I’m not sure if I’m going to play that one 🥹👀

[@TheDemethar]

one of the reasons i believe is, you cant make equipment more epic. whicever tier you design itll just look samey. because its historically closer to modern era, you wont be able to plant huge shoulderplates to armor etc.

[@SrGravatas]

tbh about devs not playing their own game on the first game, usually ppl who post about the game are people that dont rly need to play the game, also devs play the game for hundred and hundred of hours in the engine or through non released builds.

[@kiff4005]

I was here at 300 subs 👍🏽

[@sawmanUK]

Why not 100?

[@kiff4005]

@@sawmanUK tbf I was but 300 went with 30000

[@DrMurdercock]

Sadly RedM is just a fancy VR Chat with great graphics. RedM could be the game we all want with some mods.

[@joeyj6808]

Is Plobb a family name? It's enchanting!

[@samatics4]

Subbed for the Sammy classic sonic fan reference

[@samatics4]

AND A ITS ALWAYS SUNNY REFERENCE???? BRO YOU GOT ME FOR LIFE

[@David-mg1oh]

Hilarious, excellent video! 😂

[@MakoRuu]

Sergey Titov created all those Wild West games, and scammed millions of dollars out of people who actually *wanted* an online Western MMO, THREE TIMES!! Now the taste of one is so sour, none will ever survive.

[@SCVM45]

This dude follows my wife on Instagram lmfao

[@sawmanUK]

So your saying I should play his zombie game next 😹👍

[@MakoRuu]

@@sawmanUK You don't have to do that for us. Think of your mental wellbeing. Maybe try Fallen Earth.

[@ded2thaworld963]

My heart exploded when he mentioned red dead, i have nearly 6k hours in that game. Felt like i was giving up my child when i finally stopped playing

[@theblacksheep1000]

REDHEAD DEMENTIA= absolutely most best live action drama horror western MMO with RPG elements, and the RPG actually fires! ----------> 17/10 still better than Overwatch2

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

Self depreciation is effective if not overdone in my not so humble opinion. G'luck.

[@TheSteadyeddieShow]

simply the greatest video i have ever watched

[@sawmanUK]

This comment checks out

[@bathory5188]

what is the game at 0:15 ?

[@KrefOner]

Damn id definetly classify RDO as an MMO. The only box Red Dead Online doesnt tick Is "massive"

[@Smerknerb]

😢 that was touching. Break out the ol ps5 and let’s give rdr2 a go in 2024!

[@radandpaisley]

sawmanUK is my JoshStrifeHayes

[@Tinylittledansonman]

Shooter games and MMOs just dont really mix for me. FPS/RPGs mix poor enough to begin with. Yeah this guys carbine repeater does 10x the damage mine does because of his level, its just too nonsensical to the point of a shooter title overall. It works well in light RPG games like STALKER, and kind of well in Fallout, but Fallouts already pushing the limits. Going full MMO with it is just nah. Anarchy Online worked out OK but again that fantasy sci fi element to it balanced it out to where it didnt feel ridiculous to play.

[@DasOhneEnde]

I will wait for rd3 :). I love this game. But I got all. So I never be Online. But It is one of my 3 top games all time.

[@ФеофанЭтополедолжнобытьзаполне]

I think wild west setting is just not very appealing to global audience. It's kinda a local eurotrash thing, short period of time nobody from outside world gives two sheets about, especially asians, who are top1 MMO audience by now. Would you be interested in MMO set around russian conquest of siberia? Rise of republic of china (not people' republic of china)? Good mmo can afford to have almost any setting it wants (although it's always a very broad one), but when your product is not that good, niche setting does not do it any favor.

[@Bullminator]

Wildstar was kinda cowboy mmo :P

[@ricsouza5011]

Conan exiles is awesome, not an mmo but quite close. best survival game ever in my opinion.

[@drakelover1702]

Cold ones reference?

[@sawmanUK]

@@drakelover1702 they have the best green screens 😹👍

[@oneilprovost2287]

eventually we'll be talking about dead channels that talked about dead mmos (this won't be one tho)

[@sawmanUK]

Maybe ill talk about my channel on my second channel? *inception*

[@Aaron537_UNIQUESTRING]

That cheesy monologue made me cry god dammit

[@GnightOwl]

I look forward to your videos I say nay to the channel being dead mate

[@AncientGuy2000]

Shadowbane! review it you know you want to

[@bminturn]

They had a Brit doing the voiceover in the trailer. That's not very cowboy and is very sus.

[@sawmanUK]

Damn brits are everywhere

[@DeavtheDev]

My man made hulk Hogan 😂

[@fssbd5010]

My friend sawman,please play the new eso dlc .Your rants are missed

[@jwednesdaym]

So basically wild west Pax Dei...

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

Thankfully there are western mods

[@Ruminescent]

rip kabosu

[@WickedPawn]

tab targeting mortal online anyone? (the tab targeting is good tho btw)

[@mervinalcala3042]

heat survival is good too

[@sawmanUK]

I’ll have to look it up

[@RazerTNT]

cool vid but it s me or this time depression is over 9000?

[@sawmanUK]

It's not depression, I'm just British, i promise :')

[@RazerTNT]

​@@sawmanUK naa i like the british accent :p and i follow ur channel since eso stuff, probably it s just that seeing a dead mmo s always sad :s

[@Joshnpk]

Salem the crafting MMO, thank me later.

[@gameoverlordN7]

Still think RDO could have been amazing if R* game enough of a shit.

[@youfor7820]

Just join a big Red Dead 2 rp server and play.

[@importasmr7362]

🤘

[@MaynardKeenanX]

Saw have you ever had the thought you might pick up one of these god awful MMOs yourself and put +1000 hours into it. I mean its a matter of time mate were all getting old here.

[@sawmanUK]

i fear this could happen any day

[@clink69]

you only showed 2 games and its not "these types" of mmos its just 3 that you found that are obviously terrible just looking at them

[@sawmanUK]

Feel free to show me a list of popular Wild West MMOs, ill wait.

[@clink69]

not trying to

[@sawmanUK]

@@clink69 that’s because there aren’t anymore 😹that’s the point in the video ?

[@clink69]

@@sawmanUK that's not the name of your video

[@sawmanUK]

@@clink69 sorry , what ??? 😹

[@BadWallaby]

Broke Back Mmo untain

[@isjdjdjdj]

why do you advertise your videos on KZbin channel to people watching your videos on your KZbin channel?

[@sawmanUK]

eh?

[@kendallpop]

hi

[@denmarkball7728]

Your profile pic is even more cringe than mine and its working against you. Forget that there are 50000 different channels that use it, it conveys a lack of identity and makes you seem like you live on reddit which is a turn-off to most people

[@sawmanUK]

[@DarkDarcek]

Its so funny how different people have different experience of the exact same game. I actually enjoyed "Outlaws" but I never perused it as an MMO, but just love western theme games. There's another similar game you've missed called "HEAT" its also nice. Yea its pretty dead as an MMO, but I've reached in Outlaws a massive base status and actually went to became president of the united states in the white house and also was a mayor etc. which was hilarious.. 19:13 you need to build a bed doh DOH doh.. for someone playing lots of mmos you seem to be ignorant of some basic stuff. 7:46 Yea there are birds in the wild west called vultures! They are pretty common around corpses and coffins etc..which is were someone put you in.. this is also quite a used theme in Wild West movies etc even in Fallout New Vegas you are coming out of a grave after some dudes tried to kill you.. 9:15 That NPC you run into is like an IMP in other games dropping high value loot and its pretty rare plus pretty tough as you get good loot from it,so trying to kill it with your fists is a no brainer why youve failed even in a boosted server.. DOH! 12:21 are just easy to make vendors players just spam like in every other mmo..you see abnoden bases..thats just the remain of some random player base that built them then quit the game,and since they dont despawn they just stay there.

[@EKholde]

First.

[@Pentaground]

of course no one will play it if its like this dogshit

[@leafstormblaze9449]

Because they are garbage the end.

[@sawmanUK]

Red dead 2 is garbage ?

[@forrestperkins6237]

Rdo is

[@NobushigeAzai]

You're an MMO.

[@Smerknerb]

😢 that was touching. Break out the ol ps5 and let’s give rdr2 a go in 2024!