Why aren’t more musicians audiophiles?

This is a different take on the question, and I learned that drummer/audiophiles are in their own category.

[@chadleymiller425]

Great subject. I'm a retired professional opera singer and I was always fascinated not only by how many of my contemporaries weren't audiophiles, but how many didn't even "love" to listen to opera! Many opera singers listen to opera for the purpose of learning their roles. Tenors listen to other tenors, mezzos other mezzos, but few were opera lovers from the standpoint of the listener. Few would take time out of their day to listen to an opera purely for the purposes of closing their eyes and experiencing the beauty of the music. This is because, in many cases, they love performing music, not listening to it. You touched on it in your video. There are those who love to perform music, those who love sound itself and those who love the experience of music itself. The performer only analysis the music as you said. "Is that a German chord? Is that in phrygian or dorian mode? yada yada. The sound lover is moved by the sound itself. I will often go for walks and be stopped in my track by the sound of nicely tuned wind chimes. I feel the sound deeply. It vibrates my soul, man ;) Audiophiles know what I mean. Then, there are the music lovers. They may even tell you that sound quality isn't important. Its all about the music, man. They enjoy listening to Neil Young on a factory car radio as much as they do an expensive audio system. Some of the rarest of us are all three. The performer, the sound lover and the music experiencer.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

Thanks for the insights.

[@davidsean290]

THANK YOU FOR ADDRESSING THIS: Went to school for Jazz Saxophone and nobody cared about audio quality. Always bothered me. If you're going to familiarize yourself with the true timbre of your instrument study, you'd think you'd care for a more resolving presentation of it. But I guess everyone's happy enough with their audio.

[@silentdrive3243]

David Hernandez 100%

[@wendileona]

I believe they cared, but didn't admit it, perhaps to focus on the music and or their performance, the development of their chops. If you love the sound of your instrument, I believe you love sound, good sound, and thus, you're an audiophile. The difference is that as a musician, you create that sound, you communicate and paint with the instrument, you've gone that extra passage way through the doors of perception to reference one of our greatest American bands. .::Gary

[@chrisguilfoyle8799]

I'm an orchestral musician. I'm an audiophile with... an orchestral musician's budget... I don't have an orchestra position but I sub in orchestras. When I have a big program coming up it's important to me to hear the repertoire on good headphones or good full range speakers. I'll also play along with recordings to simulate performances. Having a good sounding set up is also important for score study. A good setup will allow me to hear all the instruments within the score. Having a great sounding setup is a necessity for me.

[@stringstorm]

Here's my take: Musicians, sound engineers, designers, etc, don't really care much for it because they know its not important. I know it isn't. What I value as a musician is the end result. If people are going to like something I made, not because this frequency is doing something that people are not even going to notice. You're right when you said that being an audiophile is also about the equipment. But this video pretty much solidifies that you and your lot believe that its only about the equipment. You mentioned that its not just about the music? I would correct you with 'Its not about the music.' See? I can do blanket statements too. But if you would ask me if I would heed the opinion of an audiophile or a musician about the intricacies and the technicalities of audio, I would go for the musician. Also, part of the reason why audiophiles are fine with listening to their songs on, bear with me on this if you're an audiophile, sub $1000 speakers or headphones (I know, shocker for you) is because it is satisfying to hear your own creation come out and be heard by other people regardless of what they have. I doubt an audiophile can feel the same when most of the time, they consume rather than produce. And since they're left unsatisfied, they have to make do with what they have: dive into the complexities of audio to get that sense of self serviced satisfaction.

[@walriley48]

Drummer/audio nut. That's me too.

[@Lycosa]

ME TOO! Maybe it's slightly linked to the fact that drumming is the most mocked and thought to be the most easy instrument to play. Compared to guitar n shit. But uh, yeah. I love music+audio. And I'm a drummer.

[@TyrantTitan.]

Enjoying your content Steve. Been reading your stuff for a long time, good to see you sharing more in video format.

[@martineyles]

As an Ametuer musician with a full time job outside music, I find that the more time I spend rehearsing and performing live music, the less time I have to listen to music at home. I have to settle for more background in the car and the office, on inferior equipment, and listening at home is a rare treat. Still playing music is also a treat, so it's not all bad.

[@timh4886]

My uneducated take as a fellow audiophile. I can't tell you how may chefs I know, cook the most amazing foods, and will go out and eat a big mac. A car mechanic who can fix anything and then drive a beater car, and wont buy a new vehicle. Someone in the medical field who wont watch a medical drama tv series. Maybe when your immersed in something totally, at the end of the day, you don't have the same need as someone whose interest is a hobby vs a profession. Again just my thought.

[@Lycosa]

Yeah... somewhat true. Even though im a musician and audio lover. Music+Audio lover. My father is exactly that. He's a car mechanic for his whole life, about to retire. He drives/drove Volkswagen. Just recently finally bought a newer Volkswagen Passat to replace his old 90s one. Yep.....

[@estebannemo1957]

Tim H That’s EXACTLY what I was going to say.

[@philipzimmerman6179]

An old saying. "The blacksmiths knives are always wooden."😄

[@philipzimmerman6179]

Steve, you rock!

[@a.i.dimmer4616]

I hate watching medical drama as im a healthcare professional and worked 20+ yrs in most areas including ERs and ICUs..and at the end of the day i dont wanna see nasty medical stuff.

[@genez429]

Bingo! Never analyzed it that way. Interesting.. I'm a drummer.... as far as I can tell, we always listened to the music being made, and can be the driving force that could inspire the rest of the band depending upon the style being played. I have always been fascinated by the sounds of the different musicians I played with. No two bass players are alike. Matter of fact... that goes for all instruments. Tuning drums is nothing like tuning any other instrument. We normally do not tune to notes. Many tune for tone, impact, and sometimes for lingering effect.... I'm probably broad brushing a bit here, but I never thought about it in that way before. That jazz drummer was right on...

[@jerryjazzbo2845]

Musicians i know have crappy systems. Dont know why, but i remember a musician/friend telling me that he just needs to "hear" the music and spend more time practising and working on his craft. I know the music business can be tough and cruel, so it can also be quite expensive to be an audiophile as well.

[@DPSingh-px4xu]

Simple Steve....and I am and have been a pro musician for almost 50 years....we listen to music not equipment....however that drummer point of view is shared by bass players like moi ....

[@Mrch33ky]

As a non-musician audiophile who has been surrounded by musician non-audiophiles his whole life I have noticed some similarities that they all seem to have. They are universally uninterested in the quality of the played back sound and would much rather put their money into attending live performances than in buying decent hi-fi equipment. And when they do listen to recordings it's rarely for the pleasure of listening, instead its to focus on this aspect or that aspect of the piece itself. In a sense they miss the forest for the trees. I've noticed the same thing about people who have graduate degrees, in that they can't enjoy reading for pleasure because they had to plow through so many books they didn't want to read that the thought of reading another book turns them off. I've observed the same attitude among my musician friends.

[@Praxia1]

Actually, I'd say many, if not most, great musicians (especially guitarists) are as obsessed with musical tone and timbre as they are with harmony, melody, arrangement and execution. This is a type of audiophile-level appreciation. Timbral nuances come through the audiophile realm type of equipment: amplifiers, tubes, capacitors, cables, speakers, wood and cabinet types, etc, etc - along with string types, instrument types, etc.

[@Wacoal34d]

The more I watch your channel, the more I like it! a good sign

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

martin stephenson awesome, please keep watching!

[@tombesson7293]

I once attended a master class taught by the principal cellist for the London symphony orchestra. After the class, I asked him what recordings he liked to listen to. He told me that he didn't generally listen to recordings because he was playing live music most of the time., and that was what he liked to listen to. Lucky guy!

[@wendileona]

A professional or near professional musician is an audiophile, because they are listening to the quality of the sound their instruments make. The choices of strings, piano, how a bass guitar feels, the action on a rosewood neck, the resonance of drums, the crack or snap of a snare drum, the sonic thump sound of a kick drum, the different colors cymbals make, the way a singing voice makes you feel, the way a trumpet rings and makes your ears vibrate internally, etc. etc., it all comes from a LOVE of music AND SOUND. I feel that you should try to be a musician, or approach the enjoyment of music as a musician, because it will open up another door of perception of the sonic qualities of music that will touch you on a new level. I reference a great American rock band because there is something to that. How do we perceive music? Audiophiles perceive it through gear because it's thats the intent of a finished piece of recorded music, analog or digital. However, a musician wants more, to actually listen in person, live on the spot, an intimate interaction with the instruments, including their own voice, or others singing, that no audiophile gear can truly capture, not matter how great or expensive. The gear is an illusion, but an actual piano, or a singer singing before you, the vibration that rocks you to the core that that and even a Hammond B-3 give you, will be unforgettable. I've sat before six figure audiophile setups, listened intently, but nothing can replace the sound of that one special drum set, that B3, that Doo Wop vocal group before you. NOTHING. That one Hammond B3 was like a musical LION, ever hear a lion's roar in person? In-credible..::Gary

[@TheZooman22]

An interesting point of discussion. I am a guitarist and I love music. I mostly use my PC to rip and stream music. I think for musicians its more about learning and creating music than actually "listening" to it. Playing in a rock band on stage is the ultimate Hi-Fi system. However, I was recently at a friend's apartment where we were listening to records. She asked me to pick one out and play it. I flipped through the albums and picked out the Kinks , Low Budget. It had been years since I "played" a record... it is like handling a relic and requires care and effort, but it is worth it. Since then, I have decided to build a good system with a used turntable and NAD & ELAC as my starting points. I am actually doing this for around $1000 and Steve Guttenberg is the inspiration.

[@zacharydarner7036]

I am both musician and audiophile I was in the school band and would always listen to my concert peices for the year and enjoy the imaging while listening for my part when I got home. I always made sure it was a good quality version. Most time at rehearsals we heard it on a Bose bluetooth speaker. I was always amazed at how many musicians weren't audiophiles and as much as we said stop that's not a good tone play it right nobody said the speaker isn't right.

[@ianmedium]

Hmm, I wonder, if you read audiophile forums especially the one I frequent, Headfi it seems all they talk about is what type of string is being used and wanting to extract the tiniest details that if one listens to live music you would never focus on as it’s the performance of the musicianship and energy that overrides that. There really are two camps of audiophile I think, those that listen to how much detail can be extracted and those who just want to get the gear out of the way and get into the musical rhythm and energy. You and Herb mentioned something really interesting in his new binaural video when you went to the audio note room which said about the system getting out of the way so the music was foremost as opposed to other rooms where you could tell the equipment was really trying to show its stuff. Back in the nineties when I last attended a show ( Bristol in the U.K.) this was made really apparent to me, one room had Krell Amps which the audio press raves about, the other was a total Naim system. The Krell left me cold, I felt I was listening to a science experiment but the Naim had me from the first note, music all the way! Of course, both were surpassed for me when I listened to the incredible Sennheiser Orpheus headphone system. That touched me so deeply I can still remember it to this day and touched as in I don’t think I have ever gotten as close to the live experience as I did with that incredible headphone system!

[@siegfriedderheld7806]

“They [musicians] just listen to music to listen to it, not analyze it....” Really? Statement like this show audiophiles are more interested in listening to their systems, rather than musical performance. Oh, and just so I’m clear, Beethoven and Smetana didn’t even need to hear sounds to compose music, let alone analyze it!

[@poolplayerbrian]

From what I’ve observed about audiophiles is that they are more gadget junkies than music junkies. Money invested in a system seams to be the unit of measurement of an audiophiles commitment to sound quality. I was In a music program in college. I have a pretty average ear. My peers and professors had perfect pitch, perfect relative pitch etc. Nobody stood around during breaks talking about stereo equipment. They talked about music and musicians. My professors did not have over the top systems and performed in orchestras etc. Personally I think audiophiles are over compensating for something. Kind of like the football fan that buys the merch and thinks he’s got a significant role in the organization.

[@1mykalfury]

As a veteran Vocalist/Recording Artist I can tell you that what the jazz drummer said was true. I do believe we Frontman, are a part of the Audiophile class as we have to be. We've gotta' be the animal in the band that picks out & cues off the entire environment in order to do our best in the recording studio & onstage. Love your KZbin channel & I'm a subscriber. ~ peace

[@dougdaniels5451]

One can enjoy sound and one can enjoy music. When I was young my equipment did not allow me to hear everything on the records but I enjoyed what I heard. Now that I am older and have "better" audio equipment I have a different experience. Today my listening is different fromI when I was 16 because the context is different and the sound is different. It also depends on the music. Sometimes the music is great even if the sound is not fantastic. I'm glad I don't often have to make a choice between the two.

[@hifijohn]

been an hifi-er since the 60's and a musician since the early 90's and have never met a musician who was an audio person.You think the two go together but they dont.

[@joshuajackson4742]

This question should be why aren't more audiophiles musicians? I find it very odd when people have a passion for sound and music, but don't partake in it. Most people were somewhat musical at one point in time and it was an important part of community, it's a shame we've lost that.

[@CockatooDude]

Yeah I always find it strange as well, look at the well known music KZbinrs for example. Pretty much none of them use proper headphones even though they spend thousands on microphones, instruments, and audio interfaces. Same goes for my aunt. She's a conductor and music teacher, but she just uses the apple earbuds that came with her phone. I think what it comes down to is that a lot of musicians just hear the right notes and fill in the rest, because they hear it live all the time. Although when I am jamming, I certainly appreciate having some nice audio to monitor my stuff through.

[@madsno]

Interesting subject. Perhaps it is related to the phenomenon one finds in many types of visual art: Many artists want to distance themselves from the technical / craft aspects of art and focus more on the content / message. If you get too hung up in the technical / craft it can be a hindrance to creativity. Of course this does not apply to everyone, but I think it's something that many visual artists think about. I think reproduction of music through a stereo system is a bit like experiencing a work of art in a gallery. The experience is colored by the gallery's rooms, lights, the color of the walls, which frame is used, and so on. It is then another experience than the artist experienced in the studio when the artwork was made. In this way, is the stereo system answerable to the gallery? The visual artist is obviously concerned that the artwork will be displayed in a good way, but leaves that job (to varying degrees) to the gallery? And maybe the sound manufacturer / engineer is the answer of the sound to the curator for the exhibition?

[@philhardy18]

I’ve just seen this Steve , and it’s a very interesting subject. FWIW I think musicians definitely hear music differently to non musicians. I sometimes think it’s almost harder for the musician to hear the sound of the recording if you know what I mean . As a guitar player for some 40 years now , it takes a conscious effort for me to not listen to what the guitarist is playing . And if I can get off of listening to just that I’ll generally focus in on another instrument. It’s actually quite difficult to just hear the overall track . I think though a non musician listening to music with a vocal will probably just zone into that , and the rest will just be a wash. But I can’t be sure because I can’t imagine what it’s like to not hear changes now . Hmmmmm

[@TheMentalblockrock]

Many drummers are not really musicians, just drummers. And many drummers I know have hearing loss so audiophile equipment would be wasted on them.

[@scottwolf1131]

Musicians are interested in creating a musical event, audiophiles, the re creation of a musical event. As a multidisciplinarian, 4 undergrads in the Sciences,who builds vacuum tube OTLs/ loudspeakers/DACs, and a guitarist, I listen quite differently, in each modality.

[@Lycosa]

Yes...Audiophile/Audio lover. I'm a musician, more or less. I mean... I dont play real instruments every month. But I play drums now and then, when I get the chance to. I love high quality Audio, and I love Music. +Musician.

[@socksumi]

Thats' another myth... that musicians are better qualified to rate the quality audio gear as they know the sound of live music. You would think so wouldn't you but empirical experience has shown me that musicians on average can't tell tell shit from shinola. Sure there are exceptions but I happen to know so many musicians and they really cannot discern good equip from bad stuff, nor do they give a shit. I've made some not so subtle changes in my system at home and they cannot hear any difference... or if they can they often express a preference for the inferior product.

[@Mrch33ky]

Two words: Hearing Damage. It's happened to every "professional" musician I know from classical to rock. By professional I mean they get paid to play whether they're really any good or not. If you're hearing is shot in one or both ears the quality of the sound is not on the radar.

[@markfischer3626]

Music lovers buy equipment to listen to recordings. Audiophiles buy recordings to listen to equipment. You can tell the difference by how much money someone has tied up in each.

[@felixf5211]

Can this also be attributed to Edgar Villchur's work, as per all your other posts?

[@jeffreysrnec3809]

I have wondered about this myself. Every musician I have met, nearly every single one of them, did not have a great system. I think musicians think primarily about the performance vs audiophiles, who look for the sound quality of the music. Also, musicians tend to hear their music from the stage where we, the audience are in front of the stage at various distances.

[@walriley48]

Must admit I prefer philosophical hi fi musings to dry equipment reviews. Enjoying your videos, Steve!

[@jcasetnl]

The reason no one is addressing is because performing and listening are two very different things. It's what Bob Segers Turn the Page is talking about (in the darker aspects). Musician's goal is to move the crowd. They feed off the crowd. That's where the satisfaction comes from for them. Whether the playback is high or low quality, if the crowd is into it they don't care. Likewise they also intuitively know that no venue will have audio purist gear, so as a tool to move the crowd, it's irrelevant. They aren't trying to impress the 1% of music listeners who are audiophiles. They care about the 99% who listen on average gear.

[@user-xw6vf5nq2k]

Wow so many things in my life... I can't describe it

[@tomdaues2982]

Great question Steve...Noticed that many studios or major producers also use old

[@djclass005]

yes, If something sounds good on cheap, bad speakers, it will usually sound good on expensive ones, the good speakers are used to impress the client when the mix is done.. Also you mix on relative low volume, and check loud later..

[@EddyTeetree]

Music has to produce a sound that somehow reverberates with the vibrations of my soul producing feelings of euphoria or sadness, otherwise it’s just noise

[@3lueant347]

I'm a drummer and modest budget audiophile. I love beautiful sound and good music. I love great cymbals and wonderful loudspeakers. Both are important though sometimes great performances are not the best recordings and you deal with it. Sometimes technically great recordings don't touch my heart. So, what is the deal? We have passions for all of this. I like Willie Wonka's saying "candy doesn't need a reason."

[@scottlowell493]

Because musicians play real music live, they don't fret over snake oil and audio jewelry to make sound. Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I've met too many overly neurotic audiophiles that are wrapped up in gear, not music. every few months: new gear.

[@atticustay1]

yeah but you don't have to be like that to appreciate good sound quality.

[@bareknuckles2u]

Scott...interesting point. I find that many "audiophiles" are more interested in talking about the cost of various gear rather than the sound, or the experience they have listening to it. Of course, this doesn't apply to all.

[@emerycomputer]

I'd ask: Why aren’t any musicians audiophiles?

[@AriKona]

Wonder if it stems from how you define "audiophile" and differentiate it from the listener who appreciates music for what it is. To me, an audiophile looks at all aspects of the music and analyzes as well as appreciates what they hear. Why do audiophiles worry about their equipment if only the music is what they are interested in (not the quality). I am an audiophile and a musician (piano, trumpet, bass and 6 string guitar) and appreciate the music as I listen to it, but find that if something jumps out at me, whether good or bad, from the piece, I notice it and it gets my mind going. If I were just listening to it (like background music - if there really is such a thing), I might not even catch the alteration. Anyway, I personally believe you would not find too many professional musicians who do not share the quality of being an audiophile, at least as I see it defined.

[@charlielancaster5277]

I started out as a classically trained musician and transitioned over to live audio engineering, I listen to everything with a critical ear.

[@sonicweaver]

I am and I am.

[@ProgRockKeys]

I am an amateur keyboard player / audiophile. If you are both of these things, then you wear old clothes and drive a very old car, because these two things cost a fortune, each.

[@StevenEspaniola]

I'm a professional musician (and an audiophile). Most of my contemporaries are not audiophiles because we are concerned about about different parts of the music. When we play live, we are queuing in to the other musicians around us and listening for things like meter, dynamics and spacing in real time as we create so that we can make subtle adjustments on the fly. When we are in the studio, that is probably when we are most in line with the average audiophile as we are listening to the entire piece or project under a microscope. Interesting topic!!

[@wendileona]

But isn't the process of LISTENING for dynamics, spacing, colors even, the timbre of the sound qualities of your chosen instruments, all based on listing intently and at the same time, listening to your internal musician communication? For lack of a better way to put it. I believe a musician is probably the highest level of an audiophile because you LOVE the sound your instrument makes and you've gone beyond just a listener to immersing yourself IN the sound of music. .:Gary

[@StevenEspaniola]

You would think that to be the case but is not in most instances.

[@musicman8270]

Every singer and musician I know have the same thing in common... A crappy stereo with a record changer in the top. Jeff Bridges in the Baker boys was a Hollywood creation

[@totaltotal157]

Musicians like music. Audiophiles like gear. I'm pretty sure non-musician audiophiles cannot distinguish individual instruments and timbres in a song the same way a musician can.

[@dcfincher]

I have heard famous guitar players say in interviews that musical tone is all important, so I would think that they would be very sensitive to crappy sounding audio systems.

[@ericfshook]

I think Steve just came to the conclusion that audiophiles are listening to the system not the performance. Also, if musicians had money, they'd probably spend it on more or better instruments.

[@Hagledesperado]

Spot on. Directors, musicians, sound technicians and producers listen to the arrangement, the instruments, the recording and the mix. Audiophiles listen to the playback system, but musicians, technicians and producers ain't got no time for that. Too much other interesting and honestly more important stuff to focus on.

[@hagbard72]

Eno for the Win!

[@fuffy442]

Perhaps it's because there's no setup that can recreate the sound/feeling of sitting on stage and performing. At least, not within your average working musician's budget.

[@TheHSIHP]

Because musicians are concerned with creating.

[@bluelines1792]

Well the drummer better be watching the bass guy. Ringo on drugs, err I mean drums.

[@Rob1972Gem]

An Audiophile is some one who love to listen to music NOT some one who thoughs around name brands there just fools And yes i do have mid price system all in around £6000 but i did not fall for the AudioQuest bull and spend £1000 on a RCA cable or speaker cables here's why my best mate spends way more than me on Speaker cables he rang me once about 4 years ago saying he had just spent about £4000 on a pair of speaker cables and he was coming over to try them on my system came around and had a coffee said to me lets have a listen hock them up im just running to the shop to get some beer .I never hocked them up just put them around the back out of sight he knows how my hifi sounds i came back we listened and well straight away he goes there's more space lighter sound they have taken the mid more to the front ..Then i told him they were still in the box NOT plugged in the system he went home somewhat pissed off with me but to me that proves how some people want to hear a difference were most possibly is NOT one BUT if i had spent £4000 on cables i would want to hear a difference

[@joergbrathauer2302]

apples and oranges. a musician a producer an audophile and a casual listener all approach music from a different angle. a musician is always trying to master his instrument. creating the correct tone and timing at will and being in harmony with others or mastering a certain complexity or diifficulty is what drives many of hem. a producer has a certain sound in his head and has to get it out he has to consider the end result like his product has to sound 'okish' on a cheap phone or tv or radio. an audiophile and a casual listener both look for an emotional response within themselves through music. no one is born an audiophile. when you are a baby every sound is a new surprise, as a teenager you look for lyrics and/or bands that express whatever you feel - if there is a strong message sound is not so important, the casual listener stays there. an audiophile is a drug addict. the first time you hear a soundstage or a certain level of resolution evokes such a strong emotional response - it opens the door. and you go buy a system that can create that stage or resolution. but the drug wears off. after a while you are used to that quality of sound and you cannot create that emotional response anymore and then you need that new gear. low quality recordings become unbearable because the bad sound overpowers the message or beauty of the music.

[@dylanhunt1529]

I thought there were more bassist audiophiles than other instruments.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

It's close, bassists and drummers.

[@rapier5]

I would guess based upon not a single concrete fact that those who have the talent for making music experience it differently from those who don't. Those who work at making music for awhile are probably rewiring their brain or are enhancing the way their brain works already that is different from the non musicians.

[@rapier5]

It posted up too soon , so anyway the difference is experience and nobody can tell us what their experience is. I am tempted to say it's emotion that is greater in the experience of music for the non players but that can't be right either.. As the man said when music hits you feel alright. PS, Actually audiophilia is related to men's, well mostly men's, love of machines and hardware and engineering. Some men love cars, motorcycles or their lawn tractor. For better or for worse.

[@jennconducts]

There are more of us out here than is commonly believed.

[@joshuajackson4742]

There are but there is a truth to this video isn’t there

[@meshplates]

There is a french term that doesn't exist for music lover: mélomane. Implying somewhat more knowledge and expertise about music. That can include sound.

[@ObamaoZedong]

Cause we musicians don't have any money

[@donunus]

musicians have the talent to fill in the blanks better than most. This is why it is not as important to them.

[@donunus]

plus there are different modes of listening( at least three in this case). 2 for audiophiles (analytical and for enjoyment). Musicians add the analytical in performance part.

[@EddyTeetree]

He didn’t think he was.....I thought he was....is anybody.... Really?

[@mixodorians12]

The real question is why aren't audiophiles musicians? Maybe audiophiles take music too seriously? The feeling of playing an instrument is vastly different to listening to an instrument being played. Improvising on a guitar (having even a basic understanding or mastery it) is terrific fun. The greatest fun you can have with your clothes on...or off. It also takes courage and commitment. I improvise to backing tracks played on an Amazon echo device, with a electric guitar connected through a Boss Katana Amplifier. Just standard harmonic scale theory, pentatonics in different positions and modes of the major scale. Basically stuff done to death in the eighties. Best feeling ever. Sitting there listening to someone improvise is not something I would enjoy a fraction as much. Doing is much better. I don't have or need a 50 thousand quid hifi. I only have my hands, my imagination and my brain.

[@poolplayerbrian]

I really do the think music is not their primary interest. I read a review years ago where the guy was excited to hear Axle Rose say “oh my god” at the beginning or welcome to the jungle for the first time. It only took an obscenely expensive component to show him what an average person can here off their television speakers. I get investing in quality but the human ear is only capable of so much. When precision measurement tools are being used to rate which components reigns supreme then they missed the boat. Take that $50k and go travel the world for gods sake

[@estebannemo1957]

The guy who owns Synergistic Research, Ted Denney, had an interesting theory. He thinks musicians don’t need HiFi cause their brains fill in the gaps when listening to poor quality systems.

[@evansclan4eva49]

I think everyone would agree that music sounds nicer on expensive equipment, but I’ve never understood one thing... Audiophiles like music to sound so perfect and natural, so why listen to music with effects? Most recorded sound is manipulated to some degree. Unless it’s an acoustic set up, audiophiles will never get a ‘true’ sound. Just my opinion.

[@ShlomirBareket]

I try to be but i prefer to spend $3000 on an Australian made Tube Fender Vibrolux clone than on a $10000 Machintosh amp and dac anf $3000 on Vaf speakers!

[@20teverify]

Being an audiophile isn't about music, but consumption... Otherwise audiophiles would be going to Operas and theaters looking for good acoustic

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

Because their hearing is shot to shit.

[@speakersr-lyefaudio6830]

I'm on both ends of the spectrum

[@chamade166]

One is a consumer the other is a creator, totally different. Musicians don't have a lot of respect for audiophiles. The ones that fixate a lot on equipment seem to me to have some sort of psychological issues, that they'd be better off solving with therapy/introspection.

[@vanilakung7563]

Musicians like the sound of money, thats why

[@julianwest4030]

I always viewed the term "audiophile" in the same way I view the term "feminist." The technical definition of both terms is very innocent and agreeable, but in practice, there's a stigma behind them since the hard core elitists of both groups have tarnished their good names. Nobody wants to be pestered by a female supremacist and told they're a bad person if they don't totally agree with all feminist views. Also, nobody wants to be lambasted by a crazy audiophile telling them that if they use cheap cables and Bose products, they don't know how to enjoy music. As much as I dislike Bose products, I don't think it helps our cause to tell people that they are what's wrong with the hi fi consumer electronics industry.

[@vcp93]

Don't you know how expensive audio gear is and how poor musicians are? 🤔

[@felixf5211]

Steve, your comments seem to be structured in such a way as to troll the lowest common denominator into the discussion. Notice how the tide is churning daily. At this point you need to decide which viewers you want to attract: those who react and post volumes after cable/anti-audiophile trolls, or the more enlightened S'phile readers who actually have something intelligent to say. Not going to get both. In time, some of us will unsubscribe and stop promoting the channel. Perhaps sooner than later.

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm trying to attract the largest possible audience.

[@felixf5211]

Fair enough. Apparently gaining the largest audience possible requires an approach that foregoes high-performance values in lieu of every lame warhorse on the 'net. It's intellectually insulting, frankly. I have deleted the links to your videos - and the subsequent discussions - from the audio groups I admin and have unsubscribed. Best or luck with this. Really. The videos are obviously not for Strerophile readers. Someone might enjoy a return to Stereo Review.

[@chadleymiller425]

Felix F, you understand that real audiophiles are really a rare breed, yes? Steve is trying to make a living here and he can't do that by promoting his stuff only to the 12 enlightened superphiles of the 4rth order. He is trying to get the average Joe to consider hifi sound. IMO, it is a noble cause, Steve. :)

[@raydavies6236]

Who do many Chefs use cheap knives? They are poor! Same with most musicians.

[@dj4int]

Ray Davies Those are two very different things. You can't tell when eating your dish what type of knife was used to make it. I'm a chef, musician and audiophile.

[@carybaxter274]

Too much pot and booze.

[@jamesmorton81]

IMO : audiophiles r not into music they r into gear.....musicians r into music not so much the gear

[@taineasy]

James its true that many are into gear but not all. Some find their nirvana in a very inexpensive system and are not tempted to buy the latest expensive upgrades. I found my perfect sound 40 years ago and have stayed with the same gear the entire time.

[@MrSteamDragon]

With my own personal experience, i think Audiophiles go through stages. I had a specific goal in mind when i was building up my system. Took me a few years acquiring various components, trying some, replacing some etc. During that time, yeah it was mostly about the gear, only listening to the specific aspects of the sound produced to see if i had obtained my sonic goal, so to speak. Now almost 9 years since i started i have ended up with a system which makes the hair stand up on my arms every time i put on a Clifford Brown or Lee Morgan LP. Its not even high end by todays standards, $20k-ish. So now, its nearly all about the music. I still read and watch audiophile media sources with much interest and i often think about what changes i could make to the system, but no longer while listening to the music. I also make sure the gear i have is well maintained and serviced regularly to ensure the sound i have created endures for a few more years yet (as i write my Accuphase C220 is in the shop being cleaned and serviced). So right now, I still consider myself an audiophile, but with the emphasis on the music... ... for now at least 😎

[@socksumi]

Fact is a system with life-like fidelity makes the music all that much more enjoyable. Reproduction that is high in distortion or where instrumnets sound like cardboard cutouts of the real thing is musically much less enjoyable to listen to. Otherwise musicians would be just fine if their music is played back on a kazoo.

[@DIsmayedConfuse]

There has been too much anti-science nonsense in audio. I remember when people claimed that coloring the edges of CDs with green marker improved the sound, or that magic little wooden discs spread about the listening room had an audible effect. Quacks.