Why Austria-Hungary was RIGHT to Invade Serbia - Lavader Reaction

[@VloggingThroughHistory]

Subscribe to Stories of the Great War - Stories of the Great War - www.youtube.com/@StoriesoftheGreatWar

[@_somerandomguyontheinternet_]

Btw, I know you don’t react to Extra History within the first couple weeks of their videos airing, so I don’t know if you’ve already seen their new series, but if you haven’t, it’s pretty cool. It’s their series on N@z! Occultism, and it’s fascinating. I’d love to see your thoughts on them!

[@wacherwicht1810]

Please also have a Look on his series on Wilhelm II. Eventho it starts rather weak.

[@TheRezro]

It is also worth to mention that after humiliating defeat by Japan. Russia was actively seeking conflict against "week west™" and was pushing on Serbia to act provocatively, with full intend on starting the war. Because it was actually quite obvious, Germany recognize Russia entering the war as act of aggression. Unfortunately Entente didn't know that. Later during WW2 Russia was actively working with Adolf on starting the war. And now story repeat again.

[@bojanpalink5471]

The video is a classic falsification of history...the Austro-Hungarian Empire was the darkness of nations....Italians, Czechs, Romanians, Balkan nations....WW1 would have happened even without the assassination of the heir to the throne....because the political situation between the countries in Europe was like

[@kobeslaughter4671]

saw the length of the video and got so happy, got my popcorn and sweet tea lol.

[@LuisFelipe-dm2yk]

after watching this i now very much understand his problem with Oversimplified, given how he portrayed the ultimatum and july crisis in his WW1 video.

[@ARaider510]

I think one mistake/tragedy people make is associating the central powers to the mustache man and shutting down any idea of a grey area regarding WW1. I’m only a few minutes into the video but I felt like I should mention it and I’m sure it’s probably wrong too.

[@fantamannen]

Yeah, people assume that since they were the bad guys in ww2, then they were also the bad guys in ww1

[@glenchapman3899]

I think you are 100% - The start of the war is like a bar fight where no one wants to throw the first punch, but then every one throws the first punch at the same time

[@nickjojo4623]

There is no grey area. Even in ww1, germany was the bad guy.

[@brendanjames7551]

@@nickjojo4623 No. This is entirely incorrect. History is written by the victor. That's the only reason people think that. Germany was a rising empire that almost everyone else was trying for decades to harm economically. Austria-Hungary had their heir to the throne murdered. The Black Hand, was a Serbian secret military group. It included a bunch of government officials in Serbia, army members and so on, SPECIFICALLY WITH GOALS such as assassinations. While Princip may not have been a member, he was affiliated with them. Russia then got involved backing Serbia. So Germany, the rising power looking to establish themselves as a regional power, threw their support behind their ally. The Serbian government was pretty much involved via the Black Hand group to assassinating Ferdinand. Austria-Hungary had every right tor retaliate. Russia had no eggs in the basket and got involved, so Germany got involved. And because Russia got involved, France got involved. Even though Germany made it clear they were only going to get involved if Russia militarily got involved against Austria-Hungary. France had even less reason to. Nothing Germany did necessarily made them the bad guy besides invading Belgium which was their military strategy against France. Kaiser Wilhelm was even the one person in the whole war TRYING to stop it because it had gone too far. But the civilian government and the military was fully behind it. But they were by no means the bad guy

[@kevinmendoza6386]

​@@nickjojo4623Obvious and pointless bait.

[@keto0303]

You should do more reactions to Lavader. He made a video to show how Wilhelm 2 actually did not want WW1, and worked hard diplomatically to avoid it. He showed how he was treated unfairly by the allies. I was quite surprised by the evidence he brought forward for this. He is kind of a myth-buster in terms of history narratives created by the allies.

[@benmaguire1729]

I haven't seen the video yet, but I plan on watching. I think I'm in a similar position to Chris in that I really enjoy lavaders videos and he certainly has interesting opinions and I like his thoughts process. However I disagree with him a fair bit and with what I know of WW1, i think it's a far, far stretch to paint the kaiser as a victim. I mean there were certain things he did do to stop or slow the war, but in my opinion, those were only some to facilitate the German mobilization and early offensive actions. I'm willing to say that it wasn't all the kaisers fault, but he does own a massive share of the main cause of the war.

[@iattacku2773]

The Kaiser may have wanted peace but not necessarily the war hawks in his government. In the same vein that Britain and France were concerned about a rising Germany. Germany was concerned about a rising Russia.

[@benmaguire1729]

And even if he wanted peace internally, his actions throughout the July crisis absolutely ensured that war would happen, just not necessarily to the scale it ended up being

[@0816M3RC]

Being sympathetic to Kaiser Wilhelm II is a massive red flag. 😂

[@seanm241]

@@0816M3RC he may have been an autocrat but at least he cared about his people and country, he was just a bit insecure and incompetent

[@onefadedgunner3281]

WW1 is one of the most complicated conflicts in history. It wasn't as cut and dry to who is the good guys and bad guys. While Germany wasn't innocent with everything they did, the British blockade of Germany led to mass starvation of innocent civilians.

[@frankanderson5012]

So the British were the villains?

[@onefadedgunner3281]

@ in war, basically everyone is the villain

[@dreamcaster143]

​@@frankanderson5012yes kinda. The idea is basically that germany fought not deciebingly under narratives. It was just: Ok they hate us (e.g. because our economic rise) but not to free the people.

[@orwellboy1958]

So following your logic, the U.S. is the 'bad guy' by effectively blockading the Japanese home islands.

[@deadlyknights1119]

German sailors trying to save civilians by warning to leave before they bomb the ship: The British: and we took offense to that.

[@theanderblast]

I don't think Austria thought it was starting the Great War - in their minds, it was yet another of many Balkan wars.

[@TheAustrianAnimations87]

Considering two Balkan Wars already happened in the span of 2 years, yeah.

[@elmascapo6588]

​@@TheAustrianAnimations87jesus, i Always forget what a shitshow the balkans were in the 1910s. Christ

[@handsomelyditto4215]

germany did though

[@elseggs6504]

​@@handsomelyditto4215 And pledged to back them lmao. "A blankoscheck is a blankoscheck, deppata piefke"

[@martstam2016]

​@@elseggs6504there was no cartblanche. Germany invded Belgium and all the hell broke loose.

[@LGJosh7]

The sleepwalkers by Christopher Clark is a must read on the start of the war. The rest is history podcast on beginning of WW1 is also a must listen

[@djkazc1818]

Came here to comment this. Absolutely fascinating series

[@antondzajajurca7797]

9:30 Movie is Von Richthofen and Brown (1971)

[@sims2mw]

Thank you

[@luskvideoproductions869]

Yes!! That's the film!

[@AnCoilean]

It appears to be shot on the grounds of Leinster House

[@MS-io6kl]

5:15 The tragic thing is that the guy who was mostly against any kind of war on the governmental side in Austria-Hungary got murdered in Sarajevo. Franz-Ferdinand also planned to have Hötzedorf sacked after his return from Sarajevo. They had been political allies once, but Conrad's desire for a pre-emptive war against Serbia and his poor handling of the Redl affair had led to a falling out between the Crown Prince and the Chief of the General staff. For anyone who doesn't know what the Redl affair was: Colonel Alfred Redl had been the deputy head of the Evidenzbüro, the military intelligence agency of the k.u.k Monarchy, who got turned by the Russians and sold out all the Austrian agents in the Russian Empire and all Austrian war plans against Russia. He got found out and was forced to commit suicide in May 1913. Because of him, A-H was fighting Russia basically blind, which is a major reason for the poor performance of the A-H army against Russia in the beginning of WW1, just for a bit of context A-H suffered nearly quarter of its losses in 1914 in the first 5 months of WW1 a war that went on for another 47 afterwards (also Potiorek's piss poor handling of the Serbian Campaign added a lot to these losses). Contrast this to Italy's entry into the war in 1915, where A-H still had a functioning intelligence network, on the day of Italy's declaration of war the k.u.k. Kriegsmarine attacked the Italian Naval Command in Ancona and took out basically the entire train network on the eastern coast of Italy, derailing, quite literally, the Italian mobilisation for weeks.

[@nirfz]

I would say that is the whole reason the black hand targeted F-F in the first place. This way a war between A-H and Serbia was most likely and as long as Austria-Hungary started an official war, they could play the victim card and count on getting russian support. It's like making a bait move in chess. (i hope that's the correct way of wording it)

[@elseggs6504]

Franz Ferdinands position meant sweet fuck all. Only Hungary was more or less onboard with having no war. Austrian nobles were salivating. Say he does become a ruler, how is he gonna accomplish any of the reforms Karl was trying in the final years? For an Illyrian crown Hungary would have to agree since Croatia was theirs. What of the Slovenes then? Do they get representation? Autonomy? Or become a part of that crown? What of Istria? What will the others think? Czechs were going to Russia just to not be ruled by Austria any longer. They would 100% demand more power. Slovaks werent gonna sit by and let Hungary repress them either. Nor would the Romanians, Poles and Ukrainians. Fact is under their model, adding a crown meant making them their own country with its own passport, army and everything. There is simply no way devolution wasnt going to result in independence eventually. A united states of austria is a pipedream about as realistic as the british imperial federation, aka CANZUK on crack

[@roibot1122]

My favourite history channel by far VTH! Greetings from Romania! (boy did we take a beating in WW1, but we tried our best!)

[@talesferreiralimadossantos8806]

I wonder, what do you think of Hungary and Bulgaria? I think Romania has good relations with Bulgaria, but with Hungary... well, it's a bit more complicated.

[@roibot1122]

@@talesferreiralimadossantos8806 Romania has pretty decent relations with Hungary now. There is some historical animosity there but it's more concentrated in minorities on both sides. Romania and Hungary benefit hugely from trade with one another and Hungary has been Romania's biggest advocate for land Schengen entry (Romania and Bulgaria are in Air Schengen only) (as many many transporters in Europe hire Romanian trucks to drive goods across, so Hungary makes a nice yield from all this transit driver transit). Furthermore Romania has the second largest natural gas reserves in in EMEA besides Norway, so Hungary is deeply interested in receiving some of this gas. Romania disagrees with Orban's government on NATO and Ukraine (Romania, like Poland is fiercely pro American, even at the expense of EU allies - it's no wonder why Poland and Romania are the only eastern states that have signed F35 purchases with the US and are actually ALLOWED to get them by US Congress) but neither country would let these points, no matter how important damage overall relations. With respect to Bulgaria, our relations are very very warm and most Romanians consider Bulgarians a brotherly nation, despite them being a Slavic nation and Romania being Latin.

[@talesferreiralimadossantos8806]

​​​​@@roibot1122Thanks for the reply! Your president actually visited my country Brazil last year. Also, both languages are decendent from Latin, so we have some cultural similarities. Cheers from Brazil! 🇧🇷 ❤ 🇷🇴

[@roibot1122]

@@talesferreiralimadossantos8806 Cheers to Brazil from Romania! I am not a big fan of our current president although I have voted for him, however, I do remember his visit to Brazil and I think there should be more contact between Romania and Latin America. Brazil is a massive country and there are loads of things we could trade. I, personally, have strong family ties to Portugal so I got to learn a lot about Portuguese and Brazilian culture and I am a big fan. I wish we had more Brazilian restaurants in Romania, especially the all meat you can eat ones! Those would make a killing here as we are big meat eaters, but our grill is nowhere near the quality of Brazilian grill.

[@talesferreiralimadossantos8806]

​@@roibot1122Haha, I'm not a fan of our president either, even though I voted for him in 2022. Yes, we could do some kind of a trade agreement in a way our economies would benefit with each other. From where I live, I don't see anything Romanian related, but it's a country that fascinates me nevertheless. Before I forget, just one last question: your country used to own Southern Dobruja, but Germany pressured you to cede it to Bulgaria. Is there no animosity because of this loss or is there a minority who still resents Bulgaria?

[@jc-mendoza]

You should react to this video called "Why Spanish America Didn't Unite Like Brazil" by Icebulb. It's like Polandballs and Oversimplified and just as informative

[@flipbook7812]

Agreed i've been waiting for this reaction for a while now

[@MalikF15]

Totally agree

[@banderi002]

100% my same feeling, I saw that video by chance and I absolutely loved that mix of vibes. Polandball/countryball + Oversimplified is exactly what my mind immediately thought of and it was a super interesting watch, it fueled so much curiosity in me for the latin/southern american history. Would love to see what Chris think of it!

[@lucasvargasrosa2377]

Yes!

[@ChristianSirianni]

VTH Trigger Cheer: WOODY WILSON (clap clap clap clap clap) WOODY WILSON (clap clap clap clap clap) LOL

[@VloggingThroughHistory]

He does make a brief appearance in this one

[@jacobwalsh1888]

I've always thought the assassination of Franz Ferdinand was a tragic event all on it's own. Franz was a genuinely good person, and would have been a far better king than his father, and him dying but telling his wife that she had to live was so beautiful but deeply sad.

[@Mihajlo1469]

Yeah, a guy referring to slavs (Serbs particularly) as pigs, thieves etc. Great guy. I also know a guy who thought the same thing 20 years later.

[@str.77]

@Mihajlo1469 Yeah, a guy who wanted to reform the Empire so as to give Slavs greater autonomy, is a good one. Your comparison to to a failed painter who fled his home country is quite uncalled for. Also, telling everybody you are Serbian without saying so.

[@marknieuweboer8099]

Archdukes can be weird too. Both are true. FF wás a racist towards Serbians ánd called for more autonomy for minorities, including the Serbian one.

[@TheAustrianAnimations87]

@@Mihajlo1469 Franz Ferdinand didn't plan to invade other countries and exterminate all non-German people here, he wanted reforms and peace. Your comparison is also disrespectful to all the Habsburg family members who were either arrested in concentration camps or fought against Nazism.

[@TheAustrianAnimations87]

@@str.77 In addition, Hitler was technically a traitor to his own homeland, since he utterly hated Austria-Hungary and wanted it dead, which is why he fought for Germany in WW1 instead. The fact that Archduke Joseph Ferdinand of Austria was arrested in Dachau concentration camp and Otto von Habsburg was forced to flee Austria further showed Hitler hatred for the Habsburgs.

[@milannovicic1160]

EDIT: I have to edit my comment here. I posted the upper paragraph of the below text on the original video, but someone pointed out that there’s no evidence that A-H supported Albanian insurgents. And I actually (and surprisingly to me) couldn’t find any neutral sources regarding this (only some Serbian articles). Someone can help me out on this? Until then I have to admit that my comment might be wrong. I apologize if I misled some 30+ people. Ouch. A lesson for me not to rush into debate in things I’m not that much familiar about. The original comment: This video initially left mixed feelings to me, but it deepens this whole debate so it’s good and interesting. I loved Lavader’s conclusion at the end. Both Austria-Hungary and Serbia had conflicting interests. That’s simply it. I’ll add a few points from Serbian perspective, that he didn’t mention, without going into justification or reasoning. Watching this video people might get impression that the super patient Austria-Hungary was giving Serbia chance after chance to correct herself, but Vienna was a lot more proactive. For example, just like Austria-Hungary was accusing Serbia of causing unrest within Bosnia, they themselves were arming, financing and guiding Albanian groups to wage insurrection within Serbia in 1913 and later. The question of why they did that makes for a good debate. Expansionism? Or just keeping Serbia in check so they don’t grow too dangerous? In any case there are two sides to this. The other topic from this period that he didn’t mention was The Pig War of 1906-1908. Also, I have to say this about Gavrilo Princip. I’m a patriot, but I feel disgusted by this chest-beating kind of nationalism that’s promoted for masses in Serbia. I can’t hate Gavrilo though. Growing in his shoes surrounded by ardent student nationalists and anarchists, I would have most likely done the same thing on that June 28. But, my fellow Serbs… what did we gain? What was the interest? Gavrilo fired a bullet that sent around 1.2 million Serbs to their graves, eliminated their greatest foreign protector, the Tsarist Russia, and cleared the path for communism under which the Serbs suffered too after 1944. Not to mention around 17 million other deaths in WW1. And the failed project of Yugoslavia. Gavrilo definitely should NOT have gotten the monument erected by Serbia… 100%!

[@ignatzmeyer1978]

Very reasonable and thoughtful standpoint. Greetings from Vienna!

[@prestonjones1653]

How many pig wars have there been?

[@milannovicic1160]

@@ignatzmeyer1978 👋👋 Thank you! Greetings from Vancouver (Lol)

[@milannovicic1160]

@@ignatzmeyer1978 I edited my comment. I might not be accurate on this, I apologize.

[@gurugurumawaru7869]

It is insane how Serbia erected a statue for a terrorist. Guess their backwater mindset is the reason why they plunge the world into war, because of some stupid agenda like "make Yugoslavia great again".

[@sasi5841]

Its lava-der. Lava as in volcanic lava Der as in darth vader. He explained it on a community post. It comes from his username in online games

[@noelstachowski9533]

Stop, stop stop! You're going to take someone's eye out. Besides, you're saying it wrong. It's lava-der, not la vader

[@Hamburger2005]

The Vader"​@@noelstachowski9533

[@igormikuska4369]

​@@noelstachowski9533 ?

[@noelstachowski9533]

@@igormikuska4369 its a harry potter reference

[@igormikuska4369]

@@noelstachowski9533 It is a poor reference.

[@kevinchapman2794]

From the video it seems like Lavader made the case that Serbia was untrustworthy but doesn't make the case that "Austria-Hungary was RIGHT to Invade Serbia" which was the video title. It was, however, an interesting take on the traditional narative of the Central Powers being the enemy.

[@pericleslegendario7022]

I am mexican and its the first time i have ever heard of the whole assassination thing, my god, i have so much to tell to my class now

[@nirfz]

If you have time at hand, and are really interested in the topic, the book he mentioned "Sleepwalkers" by Christopher Clarke is very insightfull. It's not like most WW1 books, as it focusses on what lead to WW1 and basically ends with the start of WW1.

[@drazenbicanic3590]

WWI did not break out because of the Sarajevo assassination, it broke out because everyone in Europe wanted it: -The Russian emperor wanted to take revenge on the AH emperor for his betrayal during the Crimean War - The Serbs wanted to continue expanding with the help of the Russians -AH wanted to prove that it is still a world power - The German emperor wanted to prove that he was more successful than his father - The French wanted to take revenge on the Germans for the disaster at Sedan - As usual, the English incited the European powers against each other in order to maintain world hegemony If the assassination had not succeeded, they would have found a reason to settle old scores.

[@vanja2565]

Serbs did not want to "expand" they were simply in a process of liberating their ancetsral lands.

[@EmmettMcFly55]

@@vanja2565 In other words, they wanted to expand.

[@vanja2565]

@EmmettMcFly55 nope, those 2 words have very different meanings.

[@dzeremy13]

Serbs could not expand to Bosnia because they already lived there. For more than a thousand years. Serbia could expand to include that territory as well, and did want that. Eventually, not in 1914. But that’s called liberation.

[@univeropa3363]

To answer your question, the way I see it the only possible way to avoid war and get out of the situation, but also get the necessary investigation into the crimes and a suppression of the terrorist activities, would have been for Austria-Hungary and Serbia (and all the other European powers) to jointly agree to an international team to investigate the matter within Serbia, preferably with both Central Powers and Entente participation, but with the exclusion of Russia and AH. So probably a German/French, or better yet a German/British team to act as neutrally as possible. Oh, and Russia would have to actually call off mobilisation.

[@univeropa3363]

To get to the point would have been tricky, though, and I'm actually afraid that a genuine war scare would have had to first sweep across the continent for that to be agreed to, why else would the UK take an interest in the matter otherwise? (Which means that the crisis had to escalate, as dangerous as it of course was.) And it probably would have had to be the UK for the Entente side, as France and especially Russia would have been seen as too Serbia-friendly by AH. It could have satisfied Vienna in that it would have been able to force a breach of Serbian sovereignty, even if AH hadn't been the country to carry the investigation out, while Serbia could have at least sleep somewhat well at night with knowing that it weren't officials from just across the border being at work in the kingdom. They would still have had to swallow a breach of their sovereignty, though.

[@Dragonite43]

That was what I was thinking too, some type of neutral party to investigation. I was thinking Spain or the USA, but I'm not 100% sure.

[@univeropa3363]

@@Dragonite43 Good point on adding a wholly neutral country to the mix, even if the entire team can't consist of them (I don't see a scenario in which AH does not insist on Germany being part of the investigation if it itself can't be). That said, I think the USA wouldn't fly simply because of how uninvolved it had been in Europe and Spain was a bit of a mess during the time. Maybe a nordic country like Sweden then or go to the OGs, the Swiss.

[@Dragonite43]

@@univeropa3363 True. I wasn't sure about Sweden, just because I wasn't sure how much influence Russia had on Sweden at the time.

[@xseros7954]

@@Dragonite43 Not that much. Swedes hated the russians. I would worry more about German influence than Russian in the case of Sweden.

[@lordfrieza4901]

Hey look, a video about my country! Loved the fact you covered this VTH. As a Serbian, I agree with most things said here. I ecpecially agree that my country was to blame in large part. But theres one thing I want to add. A big reasson why tenstions increaded, culminating with the assasination, was Austria Hungrys behaviour during the Balkan wars. It was agreed by the Balkan coalition that Serbia would gain acess to the sea. However, Viena and London togheter, forced theese plans to not materialise by creating the state of Albania. I do not wish to claim that the Albanian people do not have a right to a state, they certanly do. But the means that were used to create it, with the goal of limiting Serbian power put a bad taste into my fellow countrymens mouth. It was seen as a massive betrayl and injustice that Viena got to influence the borders of a war they werent involved in. As such, Serbia felt its interests threatened and its power unjustly weakened. Hope this helps continue the disscusion and keep up the great work! :)

[@meeeee8745]

I should first note that I am Albanian before explaining why I completely dissagree with you. Yes, Albanians had the Austro-Hungarian support but that was only because Serbia had gone fully pro-Russian after the assationation of 1903. The fact that Serbia participated in the Balkan Wars or did not have access to the sea, did not give Serbia any right to claim Albania. They were already gaining vast majority Albanian and Bulgarian populated lands in Kosovo and Macedonia and Vojvodina with lots of Hungarians. Plus Montenegro and Greece which were Serbian allies became way stronger and larger. I think Montenegro even doubled in size. Serbia was becoming a major threat to Austia-Hungary considering that the serb populated lands in Bosnia(then in Austria-Hungary) were next in line. Had Serbs agreed to the generous borders they were given, like Albanians were, the war would have had no reason to start in that very region. P.s. This serbian propoganda that Austria-Hungary made Albania a country would be equal to me saying that Russia made Serbia a country. Both of which are not true, both countries gained independence after a long struggle with the Ottomans, their independence wasn’t handgiven by anyone.

[@ShubhamMishrabro]

Op what's your reply to this compelling argument

[@jelovaczr]

The one point of his argument I would disagree with is the reaction to the ultimatum. Serbia did not reject the ultimatum, it accepted 9 points and asked for an international mediation in regard to one of the points. It also stated that it would completely accept the results of the international mediation.

[@drazenbicanic3590]

WWI did not break out because of the Sarajevo assassination, it broke out because everyone in Europe wanted it: -The Russian emperor wanted to take revenge on the AH emperor for his betrayal during the Crimean War - The Serbs wanted to continue expanding with the help of the Russians -AH wanted to prove that it is still a world power - The German emperor wanted to prove that he was more successful than his father - The French wanted to take revenge on the Germans for the disaster at Sedan - As usual, the English incited the European powers against each other in order to maintain world hegemony - Italy was looking around and looking for who it could rob with the least risk. If the assassination had not succeeded, they would have found a reason to settle old scores. Everyone bears part of the blame, only post-war propaganda demonized the defeated.

[@vmob7039]

Lavader makes an VERY compelling case here even to Me as someone who is pro Entente, the fact how they made a statue of a guy who was a killer who killed an innocent couple just because they were royalty is disgraceful and those cheering that statue of a man who killed a woman should be ashamed of themselves and can f-off.

[@idisplaypace2411]

I know very little about ww1. Are the majority of people pro Entente or pro CP?

[@SquidieTentacles]

@@idisplaypace2411 majority are pro central powers since they like to defend the underdog. although there is a balance

[@rockmycd1319]

“Who killed an innocent couple just because they were royalty” Yeah that’s definitely the sole motive behind the assassination

[@TheWolverine01]

​@@rockmycd1319That's basically why they were kill . Because Franz F was royalty .

[@zeljkodjordjevic2960]

He didn't want to kill Sophie, just Franz. He later said that hi was sorry.

[@Gitmellow]

Feel a bit odd being here early. Good work as always. 👍

[@colindavis9413]

Glad to see some more Lavader content being reacted to. Found him not too long ago and he's been an interesting watch.

[@bertmustin]

Great sign of respect. You were personally asked to analyze his video.

[@DoctorLoudonclear]

I’ve been taking a class on modern European history this semester (I was inspired to major in history in part by this channel), and was actually having a conversation about this the other day with my professor. I’ve generally held the belief that Austria-Hungary’s demands were unreasonable and I blamed them for the war (which I still believe their government is partly responsible), but I hadn’t realize until that class how provocative the Serbian government had been towards Austria-Hungary as well in trying to stir up unrest and whatnot.

[@simonsimonovic4478]

For context... Austria was not benevolent in the story. In 1908, Austria illegally annexed Bosnia and Herzegovina. Although Serbs made up almost half of the population at that time. Then, under the threat of war, Austria forced Serbia in 1909 to accept the Austrian annexation and to suppress attempts to destabilize Austrian rule in Bosnia and Herzegovina. All of that was done without any legal authority, but just with a millitary blackmail. Of corse that Serbs continued to "destabilize" Austrian occupationional authorities within Bosnia and Herzegovina...

[@lt3746]

How was it illegal? By that logic all war and fighting is illegal

[@michael-gb3rn]

@@simonsimonovic4478 wars are not illegal but you better be sure to have a good reason to start one or everybody else is gonna side with the other side.

[@simonsimonovic4478]

@lt3746 Annexation of Bosnia in 1908 was in violation of decisions made in congress of Berlin in 1878. Hence the term illegal

[@simonsimonovic4478]

@michael-gb3rn Learn about annexation crisis in 1908/1909... I don't think you ever heard about it...

[@afeather1]

I’ve listed to plenty of podcasts and videos on the assassination plot and July Crisis and I’ve really come around to Russia and Serbia having more blame/responsibility for the outbreak than what I was taught in school.

[@YourD3estinY]

That is probably because Austria-Hungary and the German Empire still are the ones to initiate the war. While Russia and Serbia certainly aren't blameless, the actions Germany and Austria-Hungary took turned the July Crisis into a war, which escalated into WW1.

[@Brandon210-q4n]

Believing that completely requires me to believe that Austria was acting completely in good faith. Do you?

[@kyleheins]

​@Brandon210-q4n none of the governments in question were acting in good faith. They were acting in self interest, as all governments do, including the desire to avoid war within the realm of reasonability as perceived by their nation. What those conditions consisted of varied wildly between nations, and alliances were formed partially around similarities in those interests, but no one had the fervent desire to avoid war that came after the conflict was "resolved".

[@Brandon210-q4n]

@@kyleheins But the provlem is that to believe that Russia and Serbia are responsible for the war as OP said requires a truly absurd amount of mental gymnastics, as does Lavader's video itself. OP and Lavader expect me to believe that Austro-Hungary was some innocent nation that did everything they could to cooperate with Serbia. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth. They treated Serbia like a client state; the British government at the time said that no national government could accept the list of demands because it would be a mockery of independence. I'm sorry, but to believe that Austro-Hungary is the complete victim in this situation-as OP and Levader seemingly want me to think-requires a shocking amount of naivety and refusal to consider the Serbian point of view as well. As someone who is posting these sorts of videos, Levader has a responsibiltiy to represent things fairly, and he is not representing these fairly at all. he is directly painting Austro-Hungary as doing everything they can to cooperate, when I really don't think any sort of cooperation was what they wanted. The goalposts would've shifted even if Serbia had agreed to undermine their independence completely and allowed Austria to control the investigation. They were always going to. This video wants me to believe that Austro-Hungary was acting in good faith despite one or two token statements otherwise. I fundamentally disagree.

[@MediCrossReed]

​​@@Brandon210-q4n Yes, Austria is not innocent, but what can you do when your neighbor is wrecking havoc in your territory. Austria just can't let it slide. The British government statement was after Austria gave the Ultimatum, which was Austria's last resort when the Serbian government just won't cooperate. I do agree with you that Lavader has some kind of bias, but all he did was just give the Austrian POV.

[@alemander_01]

Buckle up! LOL. I don't mind it when the topic is interesting. Especially interesting that the Creator has asked for a reaction. Very kewl.

[@vicentegonzalez8848]

First!!!! Greetings from Chile ❤

[@MarcusAgricola]

Having watched the interview of Empress Zita on KZbin I know that Emperor Franz Josef did not want to go to war at all, but she said that at that moment when he declared war (she was in the room) he had no other choice left, as all of his attempts before to make it go by peacefully failed.

[@Brandon210-q4n]

That is something that she would say though, isn't it?

[@brownman304]

@@Brandon210-q4nwarmongers openly support war. Just look at American politicians advocating for war whenever a conflict starts.

[@brownman304]

@@Brandon210-q4nwarmongers openly support war. Just look at American politicians advocating for war whenever a conflict starts.

[@handsomelyditto4215]

no way a member of a royal family would absolve their family of any responsibility wow that's crazy 🤯

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

I love both of your channels.

[@heirkaiba]

Just from watching the video. I think its too complicated to say if Austria-Hungary was right to invade. On the other hand, why didn't Serbia crack down on the Black Hand in the first place.

[@zeljkodjordjevic2960]

Serbia did crack them down, but in 1917 at macedonian front. And yes it is very complicated.

[@RusynTV]

Bro,all members of Black Hand were executed during the war. The trail was planned for in 1914....but its kinda hard to conduct a trail when some asshole is lobbing artillery at the courthouse

[@vanja2565]

"black hand" did not exist, you are talking about "unity or death". Yes, Serbia did crack on them, but beacuse they were up to speed on what the traitorus regent and his prime minister were doing, unfortunately didn't get to dispose of them and save many people.

[@lukerudolph880]

50:37. I think the only way Austria could’ve taken a different path is if they attempted to get another great power like the United Kingdom or Russia to side with Austria on the investigation portion of the demands. Because Germany wasn’t able to do that in our timeline. But Russia was allies with Serbia and had a weak government image and the UK was too far to care. Another thing I could think of for a peaceful solution would be Serbia or Austria back down, or they somehow create a pre League of Nations system to settle the issue internationally. But that would be impossible pre World War One horrors.

[@soundwavegamer2321]

There are some issues with Russia and Britain being apart of it. One was that Russia and Austria-Hungry were rivals due to the Balkens. To Russia they were the protectors of the Slavs and wanted more Slavic nations to have independence with warm water ports. Hell the falling out between Germany and Russia came due to the Balkens twice. Once due to them not agreeing to Bulgaria getting more land and having ports in the Aegean, and in 1887 when Bosnia was made a protectorate under Austria-Hungry. Britain was mainly due to the close ties with Germany, hell when Edward VII was king he had sent his foreign minister to Vienna to talke with Kaiser Franz Joseph about siding with the Britain in the Entente as a way for them to get German lands they lost to Germany. They refused and their relations soured.

[@zainmudassir2964]

Glad you are become more open to other viewpoints.

[@CristinaMarshal]

You spare us nothing in this hour long breakdown, Chris; but why else would we come to you?

[@alejandroparra362]

As a non-american, I think the best comparision an american can make between the Austria-Hungary attack on Serbia and 'something' that happened in USA recently would be 09/11 Al-Qaeda terrorist attack that lead to USA invading Afghanistan. The Afghan government and the taliban were not "involved directly" at that attack, yet they covered and protected Al-Qaeda from USA, wich is the same thing that the serbian government did back at 1914.

[@razuer2920]

Destroying a National Landmark and economic strongpoint as well as thousands of people is way more severe than killing 2 people.

[@nigelmcconnell1909]

It would be interesting to compare the ultimatum the Austro Hungarians sent to Serbia with the ultimatum sent by George W to Afghanistan

[@MS-io6kl]

@@razuer2920 True, but let's create a scenario that would be a bit closer to the US. Lets' say that there were a pro-Chinese and pro-Russian coup in Mexico and the Mexican president and his wife had been murdered, butchered really, by the terrorist group staging the coup. This group wants for Mexico to get everything that used to be part of the Spanish Empire in North America, from California to Venezuela, including Florida and the Caribbean islands. Fast-forward a few years, and the President-elect of the US and his wife get assassinated while visiting troops stationed in Puerto Rico by this terrorist group. I'd say there is just a "tiny" chance for the US to go to war over that. Even if the Mexican government, put in place by said terrorist group, had nothing to do with the assassination. This scenario is basically the situation between Serbia and Austria-Hungary prior to WW1.

[@str.77]

@alejandroparra362 Correct, as long as one considers the Taliban the "Afghan government" at the time, which they weren't.

[@MS-io6kl]

@str.77 in 2001, they were.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

Maybe I'm being naive here, but couldn't the Austro-Hungarian monarchy have tried to speak to Russia before giving the ultimatum to Serbia? I'm sure the tsar would be sympathetic to the cause of not wanting one's royals to be assassinated. Not because of hindsight, but because Tsar Alexander II was also assassinated.

[@therealignotus7549]

The Tsar might have been, but he didn't make the policies. It was the minister of foregin affairs Sergey Sazonov who was a mad ''pan-slavist'' who also wen't behind the Tsars back.

[@yessmabie919]

Oooh, I made a similar statement about bringing in Russia, but I hadn't considered the assassination of Alexander II, that seems like it would make it more likely the Russians would have at least some sympathy for the Austro-Hungarians. Good point!

[@rmk4452]

They did communicate with Russia through diplomats, and the majority of European monarchs, including the Tsar, was sympathetic to the Austrian royal family. The problem was that nations are dictated by INTERESTS, not by SYMPATHY. Austria wanted justice, but Russia also wants to keep/protect their Serbian ally (cultural and strategic ties). The tragic part is even before the creation of the ultimatu. The Austrian and Russian ambassadors were close to figuring out a deal, but the Russian ambassador died before it was finalized. This along with miscommunication and military mobilization, also delayed/prolonged the issue which subsequently led to a much bigger war than intended. Ironically, both the Tsar and Kaiser personally did not want a war but eventually were convinced by both their own military and politicians to war. If you think about it if Germany and Russia were really absolute monarchs, then the war would not have escalated into into a world war since both monarchs did not want to fight each other. If you want a little more detail, I recommend watching extra history's Seminal Tragedy series on KZbin.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

@@rmk4452 Thank you so much for the enlightening comment and recommendation. I'll definitely have to watch that series again. I remember it as excellent but didn't think much about the details (just the main takeaway), which I have now an angle for. Thanks again!

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

@@therealignotus7549 Interesting. I'll look into him.

[@jelovaczr]

His view is very biased; he is focusing completely on the AH side of the story while completely ignoring the Serbian perspective. There is no mention of Serbian support for the Austrian cause in the revolution of 1848 in their fight against Hungary, and the subsequent mockery of Serbian autonomy in southern Hungary by Austria (see the formation and quick dissolution of the Voivodship of Serbia and Timiș Banat), political machinations with the Obrenović dynasty (he only briefly mentions a convention signed in 1881 but omits how humiliating it was for Serbia), and the occupation of Bosnia after Serbia supported an uprising of the Bosnian Serbs against the Ottomans. He does make some good points, but in his view, AH is a benevolent empire that just wants to peacefully coexist with its neighbors, which is completely bonkers. It is, however, a good overview of the AH position, but you should probably research what made Serbia go from an Austrian ally since the 15th century to the early 19th century to an enemy in the late 19th century. Hint: Austria wanted to treat Serbia as a colony or a vassal after the Turks were gone.

[@handsomelyditto4215]

the problem is he frames it as "this is the truth" rather than "this is austria's perspective". honestly i can't stand this guy lol

[@drazenbicanic3590]

I would not agree with you (completely). There are a lot of details, for example, Serbia was an ally of Austria under the Obrenović dynasty. The secret officer organization Black Hand under the leadership of Apis (the same who organized the Sarajevo assassination) killed the last Obrenovics and brought in the Karađorđević dynasty, which switched sides and became a Russian ally. Through the Balkan wars, Serbia expanded and set its sights on Bosnia, which I AH annexed. Serbs were a minority in Bosnia (somewhere around a quarter of the population), and Muslims and Croats were in favor of unification with AH South Slavic countries. FF promised to create a South Slavic part of the empire equal to Austria and Hungary. The FF bothered both the Austrian and Hungarian ruling circles, the Serbs and their patrons the Russians, who wanted revenge on the AH for what they perceived as betrayal in the Crimean War. After the defeat in the Far East and in the Crimean War, the Russians needed an easy target to raise their heads again.

[@jelovaczr]

Do you have a source for a claim that Serbs were a 1/4 of the population? They are at 30% today, after a genocide in ww2, colonization of Vojvodina right after ww2, and a lot of them moved out during the last war. And Serbs had a consistently lower birth rate than Muslims/Bosniaks for last 50 years at least. Serb nationalist sources claim 60% of Serbs in Bosnia in early 20th century, more realistic ones state there were slightly less then 40%. But a 1/4 just doesn't add up. You also ignore the fact that political climate was different than today. Not small number of Bosniaks were in favor of south slavic state. Heck, one of the co-conspiritors was a Muslim, Muhamed Mehmedbašić. Either way, that was just one of the points I made. I also mentioned Austrian machinations regarding Serbs in modern day Vojvodina, meddling in Serbia affairs during Obrenović dynasty. Serbs resentment toward Austria didn't come out of the blue, even if you ignore Bosnian question.

[@lloydgush]

Serbia: "thanks for freeing me, austria!" Austria: "freeing? More like under mew management..."

[@keithakers7223]

Videos like this are exactly why I love your Channel! There is so much here that I never knew about in regards to A-H and what led to Great War. Thank you so much for this reaction video. So much to consider and so much to think about. Great stuff Chris and thank you again for this!

[@AllhailTDLjimpic]

Nothing like a cup of tea and a VTH video in the evening.

[@unaizuriarrain1071]

Reacting to my boy Lavader ! Thank you !

[@jackflorek622]

15:38 one comment I’d like to add, one thing that gets overlooked in the buildup to WW1 is that Germany was feeling very isolated and as a result more inclined towards aggression to secure themselves. The killing and usurping of the throne from an allied monarchy to a hostile monarchy understandably would’ve made Austria Hungary feel less secure and more in need of self defense

[@slome815]

German isolation was a product of it's own policy from the 1890 onwards.

[@la_old_salt2241]

Excellent reaction Chris. This really expanded my understanding of the build-up to the war. Take care, God bless, Rob

[@TheEternityLegion]

I know Chris is not an aggressive guy but based on his reaction every time he sees WW i imagine that it would be hands on sight if they somehow could cross paths

[@frederickthegreatpodcast382]

While the Habsburg government was not warmongering, Conrad von Hötzendorf definitely was

[@PatriotMapper]

I’m so glad you did a Lavader reaction! I love Lavader and you should definitely react to more of his content. Good stuff.

[@Wierdoandzero]

For the question you asked- What could Austria-hungary do differently. I really do not believe there is much of a choice. Even if (using fairy dust, duct-tape, hope and dreams) the Monarchy managed to somehow get a conclusive end to the assassination, this would probably just kick the can, or in this case the fuse, Down the road. Bismarck knew it. Europe is a powder-keg, and what'll set it off is Some damned foolish thing in the Balkans. You would need a lot of fairy dust to prove the iron chancellor wrong. In my opinion.

[@babychdave6258]

I really appreciate the torough objectivity of this channel! History is very blurry and rarely clear cut, this video is a great example of that

[@WeryNotwery]

The smartest thing for Austria to do would of been to get other countries (Mainly Russia and France) to believe that the Serbians conducted their investigation hastily and poorly and also bring up the fact that they had failed to crack down on their own citizens that have been destabilizing Austria via assassination. This would ideally make other countries unwilling to to support Serbia in a war or maybe even put pressure on them to accept the ultimatum or conduct a more thorough investigation on what happened.

[@shawnnorton2218]

It’s funny to me watching several channels slow down considerably when approaching 500k subscribers. It’s like KZbin purposely tries to limit exposure so it doesn’t happen. Just my observation, not just on this channel, but others as well.

[@jakobfromthefence]

Someone should have called for external investigation. Call a detective in. Let’s say from Belgium?

[@Friedericus]

My answer for this question is that there is no solution for this problem. As he said in his video, the tensions between the different nations had been steadily increasing for years. The only way this situation could have been solved, which is a completly unrealistic scenario, is if there were top diplomats in every country with enough power to influence their countries minds, who all wanted deescalation and to not further their own nations interests. The problem is that this just was not the zeitgeist of the time of those in power. It was a time of empires, imperalism and nationalism, there was no will of the different governments to form a completly deescalated Europe akin to the somewhat peace of the EU and europe after the Second World War. No one wanted millions of dead and a devasted continent, but no one was, somewhat understandably, ready to back down. To back down completly meant to lose your standing in the world and no one was ready to do that. If you look at the decades of build-up to the Great War, the situation escalates in 99/100 times in my opinion. If Sarajevo would not have happened, something else would have risen the tensions past the boiling point and ignited the flames of war. Sarajevo was not the beginning of a chain of events, it was the very end, the last straw to open the gates of hell for a continent all to willing to walk through it and spit the devil in his face.

[@zachgamr99]

A Bosnian arguing that Serbia should have been invaded? I bet we are in for a very unbiased perspective.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Compared to who? You?

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

You forget that Bosniaks hated the Austro-hungarians aswell, after all they were annexed by them shortly before WW1.

[@leonzoful]

But he is right, the Serbian Government should have submitted to the Austrians.

[@str.77]

@@JustAnotherAccount8 Where do you get that idea that Bosniaks (whoever they were) hated the "Austro-Hungarians". You should not believe everything Serb ... I mean ... Yugoslav propaganda tells you.

[@TheAustrianAnimations87]

@@JustAnotherAccount8 The Bosnians were generally known as loyal at the Isonzo Front and probably got more military awards than other A-H soldiers. If this was really true, why didn't they immediately rebel after the annexation? Stop reading Serbian propaganda.

[@AllentheHowler]

Great video reaction. This was a great exploration of this question. Very unique way to approach the July crisis.

[@antondzajajurca7797]

3:00 To be precise...not cause, but trigger :D

[@leonmarkrodziewicz279]

Great video and reaction, I hope there are more videos to follow in this series. I'm curious as to what discussions (if any) took place between Austria-Hungary and Russia before war broke out.

[@rocric2572]

As an Austrian, I’d like to add a different perspective to the question. Discussions around who’s to blame-Serbia or Austria-Hungary-and the power politics involved often miss a crucial point: the responsibility of the Austro-Hungarian ruling class toward their own people. Some argue Austria-Hungary didn’t anticipate the full scale of the conflict, but as VTH highlighted, they very likely expected a bloodbath. Strong warning voices in Austria and Russia foresaw the potential for massive escalation, yet their concerns were ignored. Given this, the decision by Austria-Hungary’s leaders was irresponsible. This doesn’t mean Serbia played no role-there were certainly crucial actions on their part. But from a moral standpoint, knowing that their choices would lead to the deaths of 1.5 million Austro-Hungarians (not to mention the catastrophic losses in other nations), it’s clear the decision was reckless. Additionally, the war ultimately brought about the fall of the empire itself, a tragic end that reshaped Europe. While I don’t believe WWI could have been entirely avoided-since larger issues were at play beyond just Austria-Hungary and Serbia-the actions of Austria-Hungary’s leadership did pave the way for a tragic outcome.

[@roerd]

I was thinking something quite similar while watching the video: even if the decision was justifiable, it still doesn't mean it was the right decision to go to war with Serbia, because they knew Russia would intervene and that the consequences of such a decision would therefore be much bigger than the initial cause.

[@weepingscorpion8739]

We still need VTH to react to that 2nd Metatron video. You know, the one that Mr. Terry already reacted to. IYKYK!

[@robertjarman3703]

The Great War does have villains. Enver Pasha and his genocide of the Armenian people come to mind. International mediation was an option. This was used in 1913 for the two Balkan Wars, 1912 for the Italo-Turkish War, 1905 for the Russo-Japanese War. That would have been very helpful to provide people not just angry at regional rivals. Interpol's predecessor, First International Criminal Police Congress, was held in April 1914, the concept of this wasn't so crazy as a way to coordinate and supervise criminal investigations. And someone who starts a war had better know that they are by nature unpredictable. How certain must you be that it won't spiral out of your control? Justinian had no idea that Milan would be razed to the ground killing tens of thousands of people in his war when he ordered Belisarius go to and reconquer the western half of the Roman Empire. Given the war would ultimately kill 150 million people in a world of 2 billion (The Spanish Flu should be counted as a direct result of the war, we do for typhus outbreaks in Serbia, we do for the starvation in Germany and Austro-Hungary and the famine in Lebanon that killed half the people, and the starvation in Iran caused by the Russians and British occupying it killed 20% of the people) (I also reject the concept that the war ended on either November 11 1918 or June 28 1919 with the Versailles conference treaties. The former Russian Empire was at war with basically everyone around the world, Romania had deposed the communist government of Hungary, everyone was invading the Ottoman Empire and what was left of it and Ataturk's rival government in Ankara), it is hard to believe that the Habsburgs made the right call with this.

[@attilaedem101]

The problem is, international mediation would have turned this at the time seemingly regional crisis into a international one between the two power blocks and frankly,... Just like how the Morocco Crisis turned into and almost caused a World War just a few years prior, neither side would have budged against the other by this point and unlike in the Morocco Crisis it was an issue neither Germany or Austria could have backed out of just for the sake of avoiding a war... To put it bluntly, to make the issue into a matter of international mediation would have been a surefire way to make the Great War into the Great War, and not "escalating" to that diplomatic level would at least give a decent chance to contain the conflict as a regional conflict only... In fact, there is a reason why Serbia denied the last point of the Ultimatum AND proposed an international Conference to "resolve" the issue instead, they knew to they need to make themselves into a international issue if they want to get out of the hot waters for certain. The only actual solution would have been imo. is if the Ultimatum Austria presented would have also demanded the same oversight over the investigation to be granted to France, Britain and Germany, as a means to "ensure the fairness" of the Austrians actions... and that would put Serbia into a difficult position, considering they would need to argue against neutral observers beeing present in the internationally significant investigation... That beeing said, chosing inaction was out of the question. Austria HAD to do something, we know in hindsight to its gonna cause the destruction of the Empire, but lets be real, if they chose to let this slide their Empire would have dissintegrate anyway... They took the dice roll, and they lost... IMO the outcome was all but set since 1848, the question was, how long the "Happy Apocalypse" gonna last, before imploding in a Yugoslavia fashion... Or as it did in reality... And also lets be real here, the war itself was also inevitable, Germany feared Russia's rapid industrialization, and they thought their window of opportunity where they still could defeat the Russian Juggernaut is rapidly closing, Britain felt the same way about Germany, and France was still eyeing for any opportunity to get Alsace back... It was just a mere question of whats gonna ignite the powder keg, and well, it turned out the Balkan have plenty of flintstone in store... If it was not Serbia then likely it would have been Romanian nationalist, Polish independent fighters, Italian nationalists, French nationalists, pro-russian Pan Slavists etc. who would have done something stupid which ignite this conflict... And we didnt even started to take into account anti-monarhists, syndicalists, anarchists etc. who also had a vested interest to make the at the time ruling world order implode on itself...

[@gagek1233]

You should react to his videos arguing that the Kaiser was a peacemaker - he makes many good points.

[@nikolatodorovic2570]

Love your videos. As a Serbian myself, i would like to recommend you to explore deeper history and relations between Hungary and later Austria and Serbia, dating back all the way to Middle Ages. Desire for control over this territory goes way back for Hungary, then later on as a buffer state between them and peak of power Ottoman Empire, Customs war of 1906. and ultimately Austrians being late for colonial gain, wanted to expand, primary through Balkans

[@8dHb8]

Great video! Enjoy hearing about lesser known history!

[@kyleheins]

I agree that Austria was justified in declaring war, since the concept of punitive operations was, fundamentally, war. HOWEVER I believe they prosecuted the war in the worst way possible, engaging in near-genocidal acts which, even within the context of removing terrorists and a complicit government, were unnecessary and unjustifiable.

[@2dimitropolis370]

The guy is wearing turkish cap in 21st century 😂😂😂😂😂too funny

[@arkadikharovscabinetofcuri3465]

He isn’t wrong…. But not fully right. His way of planning it is wonderful. The Austro-Hungarian empire did have a succession crisis, before and after the events my great x whatever uncle did what he did. The issue is that many of the policies that did and would have benefited the Serbs were proposed by the exactly person assassinated. Us Balkan folk, as the original poster labeled, are not always calm and rational as a people lol

[@arkadikharovscabinetofcuri3465]

Also… was Austrian support actually helpful or legitimate? For those who don’t really know, this is a semi religious ethnic conflict. Catholic, orthodox, and Islam all fight for dominance of a crossroads. It’s Israel with more players

[@SeppevanSchie]

please check out more of his videos! I would recommend the 5 part serie of Wilhelm 2 of Germany about ww1! I was happy when I saw again one of you're videos!

[@jeremyrounds6821]

Justified?? Maybe. There are compelling arguments. Wise?? Not so much

[@burrellbikes4969]

What was good for me watching this was the reminder at how much intertwined history and culture are behind these momentous events. And the simple - well, Germany wanted war and pushed the opportunity to make it happen, is a red herring.

[@michaeldeww]

I think another interesting thing to think about is Franz Ferdinand, the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, actually took a pretty moderate stance on ethnic issues especially with Slavs. He envisioned a “trialist” empire, where Slavs would have more autonomy and representation alongside Austria and Hungary, hoping it’d ease tensions and strengthen the empire. Ironically, Serbian nationalists saw his plans as a threat to their vision of a Greater Serbia. So, even though he wasn’t hostile to Serbs, groups like the Black Hand targeted him, which only added to the tragic chain of events leading to WWI.

[@vanja2565]

"greater Serbia" is a 90s croatian propaganda myth, it did not ever exist as an idea. "black hand" likewise did not exist, organization was called "unity or death" Define Serbian nationalists, because by western standards every Serb at the time would've been a hardcore nationalist.

[@dylanbailey2812]

What I find most fascinating about this video is the further proof that history rhymes with itself. The argument that the conflict was started by a side of warmongering, bloodthirsty lunatics attacking a poor, defenseless people has also been made against the Crusades, almost verbatim. As we know, nothing is ever that simple, but people try to simplify it.

[@milisavstefan8725]

Gavrilo Princip was a member of a group called Mlada Bosna which translates to Young bosnia which wanted to join Serbia as a lot more serbs loved in bosnia by percentage then now.

[@41d41dd]

I've just discovered a Woodrow Street in Perth, West Aus, should I be extremely worried or am I over reacting

[@ares8521]

Greetings. As a Serb and a historian, I have to react to a few things here. The first thing concerns incorrect statements, and the second is the pass over of an important piece of information. The first thing is about King Aleksandar Obrenović. During his reign, the separation from the AU and the turning towards Russia began. His best man at the wedding was Tsar Nicholas II (I think the Russian ambassador was on behalf of the Tsar at the wedding), after the wedding he announced that ties with Austria-Hungary were to be severed. The reasons for his murder are long. He often caused political instability, he often changed and replaced the constitutions, the queen's fake pregnancy, the question of the heir and neglecting the military is a topic for another video. The second thing is one piece of information that has not been said, and it is very important. And that is that during 1912 and 1913 Conrad von Hötzendorf (Chief of the General Staff of the AU) demanded war with Serbia more than 30 times! That's a fact. This tells us that AU really WANTED a war with Serbia. The only man who prevented the war with Serbia was Franz Ferdinand. What irony. There's a lot more nonsense said in the original video, and misinterpretations, but I'm really not in the mood to comment on them all. Especially with the subway, because I'm not sure what the author is referring to: a physical railroad (which didn't exist), or is it just a figurative term for a network of smugglers. So much from me. Cheers and Good luck. P.S. I will not respond to comments, except for comments and questions from the channel owner, because I really don't have time to fight with every keyboard warrior who wants to feel important.

[@joshuaroberts5530]

Hi there, I’ve been watching your videos for the past year now and very much enjoy the First and Second World War focused ones as they are of particular interest to me. I have recently stumbled across another channel by the name of ‘zoomer historian’. He covers topics on the Second World War as well. He published a video containing quotes from veterans of the Second World War. These quotes give insight as to whether or not the veterans regret fighting for their country. I believe the answers given are from a book called ‘The Unkown Warriors’ by Nicholas Pringle. I really would love to hear your thoughts on this topic!! Thanks, Josh

[@Mixer2904]

As a Serbian and someone who follows Chris's channel for years I'd like to offer my perspective and possibly a counterpoint: 1. When it comes to organization Young Bosnia which carried out assassination (Which Princip was part of) was a pro-Yugoslav anarchist organization based in Bosnia (which was part of Austria-Hungary) Princip himself declared himself as anarchist Yugoslav at his trial, also Young Bosnia had Bosnian muslims members as well as Bosnian Serbs, as for the Black Hand they were the shadow organization that controlled 1/3 of Serbian government as well as they had influence in the army, they did wanted to provoke a war and helped with planning, training and logistics, Serbian prime minister at that point Nikola Pasic as well as Serbian King Peter I and Serbian chief of staff Field Marshal Radomir Putnik were against black hand and had 0 knowledge about assassination and would be against it because Serbia already had 2 wars in 1912 and 1913 and Serbia was exhausted, so the argument that Serbian government approved the assassination was complete falsehood. 2. As said in the video Gavrilo Princip and the all accused members of Young Bosnia that carried out assassination were Austrian citizens born and raised in Austro-Hungarian empire so Archduke was killed by it's own citizens so by international law that itself removes the argument for invasion, at his trial Princip said his only goal was to kill Archduke and that his was Yugoslav revolutionary and he had no intention to kill Archduke wife. 3. Several German and Austrian historians provided theories that Austrian government knew about assassination plans and let them carry on with it because they wanted to use it as an excuse to invade Serbia, evidence to it is the day that Archduke visited Sarajevo 28 June which was seen as provocation by Serbian population because 28 June is most important day in Serbian history it is the day of Battle of Kosovo in 1389 and marks the beginning of the end of Serbian medieval kingdom but it is consider as symbol of resistance in Serbian history, secondly security for his visit was very light and thirdly he went again to the streets after a failed bombing attack earlier in the day. 4. When it comes to ultimatum Austria sent to Serbia, Serbian government did everything to avoid war (if Serbia wanted war it would reject ultimatum outright) Serbia accepted 9 out of 10 points of very harsh ultimatum and British politicians said that ultimatum was made in such a way that no country that consider itself independent would accept such a thing, point in ultimatum that was in dispute was Austrian police and court officials be allowed to go around and arrest people in Serbia, Serbian government DIDN'T REJECT THIS POINT but offered that point in question be submitted to arbitration by the great powers of Europe and whatever they decided Serbian government would abide by it, but Austria rejected arbitration offer and declared war, not to mention that German government itself said there was no cause for war after they saw Serbian response to ultimatum. ps: I do believe Lavader being Bosnian muslim comes with certain bias and prejudice against Serbians and it's hard for me to take his video srsly and objective, cause he forgot to mention a lot of stuff, also let's not forget Austrian soldiers committed many war crimes when they invaded Serbia killing lot of civilians which was well documented by Red Cross so there is no doubt in my mind that they were the bad guys to us in Serbia.

[@mircowitch]

Interesting points, thank you. There are so good points on both sides and it's impossible to make a final conclusion for me.

[@palmanbracht9125]

But FF was in Boania for a few day....maybe a week, but why? 😂....he was monitoring military exercises.

[@Mixer2904]

@@palmanbracht9125 I would recommend watching Austrian movie called "Sarajevo 1914" also called "Das Attentat" in German, it explains a lot and confirms conspiracy in upper levels of austrian government and military about them wanting to get rid of archduke and to invade Serbia they were just looking for a reason.

[@SwineBrothers]

After the Oversimplified video, I expected this to be...well, bad. Very bad. But it was actually really interesting. What I love about World War 1 is how complicated it is. It's easy to understand World War 2, but 1 was...weird.

[@invidusspectator3920]

World War One is more similar to our current world, ambivalent powers in competition for influence.

[@thecrusaderhistorian9820]

Excellent video. Truth be told, if i were in Austria Hungary's position, I would do the same thing. If I were leading Serbia, I would do a similar thing. And yea. I mean what else is there for me to say?

[@glenchapman3899]

I agree with you - Important point in situations like this, is what were the aims of those fueling the crisis. What would Serbia hope to get out of a situation like this. What was Austria's aim in pushing hard on the crisis.

[@thecrusaderhistorian9820]

@@glenchapman3899 yea

[@marcschramm6958]

You would do that totally unprepared for a two-front war? That is suicide.

[@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus-g8m]

Good video as always. It would be awesome if you watched History Buffs video on The Terror, which is about the Franklin Expedition.

[@TheSteve285]

WW1 is not a black and white conflict, i believe most wars are not. Still this is really eye opening doc, very interesting and informative even if it was a little biased. I would really like to see a doc similar do this about serbia and other powers that go beyond the established narrative.

[@sbozinovic]

I think that your comparison at the begining is not very accurate... far from it. Here's the thing, Bosnia has always been the tumoluos part of the Balkan. It wasa mix of serb and croat states, that was independant at some point, then vassal to a Hungarian empire, then an Byzantine empire and Hungarian after that. Bosnian king Tvrtko even conquered a part of Serbian kingdom at some point, when serbia was invaded by the Ottoman empire and even proclaimed himself the king of bosnia nad serbia. And then everything came under the Ottoman rule, under which the third nation was formed by the muslim population (which was converted from the serb and croat christian population mostly). During the 400-500 years of Ottoman rule they formed themself as a separate nation, Bosniaks. Now, coming to 1900's... Ottoman empire was crumbling, Serbia was fighting and winnindžg the war for independance (and expansion, as that is usually the case with almost wvery country facing the falling emoire). Austrohungarian empire wasquick to annex the Bosnia under its rule once again. Amongst all of that, there was a movement to unite all of the slavic nations under one country. Serbia, being the largest, and strongest among them, of course was interested. And there comes the Young Bosnia orgnisation whose member the Gavrilo Princip was. But there were croats and bosniaks members also. And they all were bosnians. Did the Black Hand, clandestine organisation made of the serbian officers had a part in training young bosnians (out of which not all were serbs)? Probably... they had part in the assasination of the serb king in order to bring the dynasty that suited them more. But, was the country of Serbia involved? Not that much, since it was clear to the government that the assassination of the Austria-Hungarian monarch would lead to a war with, not only them but with the Germany as well. I don't know what the correct comparison would be... maybe Texas or new mexico with mexicans living in parts that were mexican once, trying to unite with all mexicans and puertoricans and cubans in a country called Latin kingdom with the Mexico as the biggest and most influential. I now that I sound silly now, but I'm not that familiar with american nations and that side of your history.

[@timteichmann6830]

I think France's and Britain's role in starting WW1 is understated in pop-history and even academic historigraphy (Historiographie in german historical science, not sure if I'm using the english equivalent correctly). Them doing their best not to seriously deescalate between Serbia&Russia and the Central Powers has a big role in escalating the Conflict. BUT Germany and especially Austria (Hungary's Parliament was not nearly as enthusiastic about it) played the main role in starting the war. They did this by intentionally irrated and threatening Serbia towards the war, while taking the risk of escalating the conflict via Russia and its Allies. There is no doubt about this, in my opinion, and I am certain Lavader argues for Austria being justified as part of his agenda to wash clean the image of central powers Nations. The wrongs of Serbia are neither here nor there, but is their any justification for starting a war?

[@timteichmann6830]

Ps. Sorry for all my grammar mistakes. im only a student and im high rn.

[@Carpediem357]

I disagree on him forming a innocent Central Powers. He's trying to show the Ententes propaganda that exists to this day. Britain wanted to maintain status quo yet another large conflict like the Napoleonic War was bound to happen because of this status Quo. They were upset that a new superpower (Germany) was rising and didn't like they were building a naval fleet that would rival Britains. France was itching for war because of Alsace Lorraine and their humiliating defeat in the Franco-Prussian war. Austria wanted the Black Hand tried but to do so they needed to be granted the power to send troops into Serbia not trusting Serbia to hand them over. Germany truly only cared about the inevitable war, and their image. They didn't care about the Balkans or Serbia. If attacking Serbia meant this conflict could end very fast they'd be all for it

[@Varzaak]

Good video. Enjoyed this one. I wish more channels involving history would get off the sensationalizing of history to false narratives.

[@Brandon210-q4n]

I think he's being a bit too lenient on the Austrians to be brutally honest. Sure, it was only 5 and 6, but 5 and 6 also directly undermine Serbia's sovereignty. Serbia had not even been a kingdom for that long by this point and now Austro-Hungary was saying that they needed complete oversight of their investigation? That's how you treat a client state, not an independent nation. More to the point, I just don't trust that the Austro-Hungarians would've been completely fair in said oversight even if Serbia had accepted it. They would've been instantly suspicious of any investigators and may demand that they end up controlling the investigation. Moreover, do you really believe that they would not demand the extradition of those responsible? If they thought they could get away with it after the investigation, the goalposts would've shifted to 'extradition or war'. What this video does not mention either is that Hotzendorf had been pushing to invade Serbia since 1913 no less than 27 times, well before the assassination had taken place. So yes, there were definitely parts of the Austrian military who wanted to invade well before the assassination had occurred, which muddies the waters of this video even further. All of this requires me to believe that Austro-Hungary was acting completely in good faith, which I have a very hard time believing.

[@gabeitch4175]

His name is pronounced lava-der, he said the name came from a star wars oc he made when he was 12 that could control lava, and the der is a refrence to darth vader

[@brycejustin8750]

As an American I've always been torn by this because I can see both sides so clearly. I tend to lean slightly on the side of Serbia but I feel like whoever you decide is in the right is based on your morals and values thats what makes this so interesting. Hero or Terrorist.. and no one can ever say for sure such is the duality of man.

[@milosjovicevic6083]

That is so easy to see. Auatria--- invaded other nation ( anecting Bosnia) I guess for the Western that is normal stuff but for the small nation that is agression and Franz was agressor same as Hitler even he wasnt bad person, still agression is agression. You cant ocupied others nation and think that is normal.

[@crusader2112]

I think it's already been mentioned, but you should definitely take a look at his Kaiser Wilhelm long video. P.S. For anyone interested in the Imperial Monarchy and the last Kaiser of Austria Blessed Karl. Charles Coulombe's book "Blessed Charles of Austria" is a good read. P.P.S. Lavader just updated on his community post stating he’s thinking about redoing his Kaiser Wilhelm video as he feels the original isn’t that great with some mistakes. Not saying you shouldn’t react to it Christ, it’s up to you, but just wanted to mention that. Peace ✌🏻

[@deadlyknights1119]

WW1 is in many ways, more tragic than WW2. At least WW2 was started on purpose. WW1 was truly the epitome of human nature and selfishness, no country understood the other countries interests. If France and Russia saw things from the lens of Austria, They might have been much more compelled to let them take military action, but alas, this is all fog in the much wider scope of a titanic conflict.

[@lewisvargrson]

6:14 Get him! Squish him with your mouse cursor! Also to answer your question at the end, what could have been done differently, if not war? Perhaps expulsion of most of their diplomats, mass deportation of Serbian nationals, closing the border between them, arresting any Serbian national crossing the border illegally and setting trial in Austria, refusal to cooperate with Serbia in any issues of attacks on them in turn, and banning all imports/exports between Serbia and Austro-Hungary. They could even court Italy and other Balkan states to do the same. That isn't to say that it would have worked, and I do understand that Austria Hungary and Serbia both weren't in a position to back down. I also think that if it wasn't this instance that kicked off the Great War, it probably would have been the Russian Empire due to the several slights made by both Prussia/Germany and the Austrians in the decades prior.

[@BohemianRaichu]

WW1 was indeed a conflict based on competing interests. The difference between powers was consistency. The British Empire's aims remained fairly constant, therefore more predictable. Germany under the leadership of the Kaiser on the other hand was schizophrenic.

[@johnnyfives5416]

Yeah because he fired otto Bismark

[@handsomelyditto4215]

yeah wilhelm ii was really bad. btw this guy (lavader) made a whole video praising him LOL

[@schwarzenegger_arnold]

The video really makes a compelling case, but in the comments I read something about the Serbians wanting a neutral investigation in the Hague. As I'm not that well read in the subject I'd like an explanation if this is really true and if it is, I'd like to know if it changes anything

[@vathek5958]

This argument that AH had a moral right to invade Serbia rests on the core unstated assumption that AH also had a right to continue to occupy its south Slavic territories and to do whatever it needed in order to continue that occupation. If you think that empires are a bad thing and nations have a right to self-determination, then AH is already in the wrong and had no right to take further action to cement its control over those territories. Beyond that, I just don’t believe that really anything could justify AH intention to invade and annex Serbia. Even before that, the ultimatum fundamentally asked for Serbia to become a de facto client state to AH, and that also cannot be justified. It was out of proportion and clearly designed not to get to the bottom of an assassination but to put Serbia under the Habsburg thumb. There’s also a much better modern parallel involving the US. A terror group based in another country that carried out an attack on American soil, leading to the US invading that other country. Imagine if Afghanistan’s government had actually had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and agreed to a host of demands, yet America still invaded with the intention to permanently occupy Afghanistan as a new American territory.

[@Partizani192]

except A-H wasn't tyrannical towards Slavs, in fact, they let people from various nationalities including Poles, Bosnians, Croats etc. into the parliament

[@lt3746]

They weren’t trying to annex Serbia that would be a nightmare. Also by this logic Serbia shouldn’t have the right to claim the territory of Kosovo

[@vathek5958]

@@Partizani192 Bosnia was under military occupation with no say in even its own government, never mind the empire’s. Even looking outside of Bosnia, lots of places that had representation within a larger empire still wanted to become independent (and I personally think had the right to choose that), such as the various Russian imperial territories.

[@vathek5958]

@@lt3746 at the very beginning of the war the government said it wouldn’t annex Serbia, because the Hungarian premier thought it was a bad idea. But AH was an expansionist power at this time, which hoped to capitalise on the Ottoman’s being pushed out of the Balkans. By mid war, they were openly planning to annex all or part of Serbia and similarly had plans for Montenegro and Albania. AH was not just a peaceful empire just looking to protect itself.

[@lt3746]

@ ok but how does a mid war decision have anything to do with the July Crisis?

[@Swindondruid2]

I really enjoyed this detailed analysis of the Austrian/Serbian aspect of the Great War. It was well argued and contained information I had not heard before. As for the blame for starting the war, the British movie "37 Days" (2014) puts the blame firmly on the German General Staff.

[@Leviticus_Prime]

I never bought into the idea that the Serbian government had nothing to do with the black hand and knew nothing about their plans. I'm sure that they were supporting them covertly. Add in the fact that the Serbians knew that these terrorist groups were operating out of their nation, and really did nothing to interfere with their operations, and that tells me that they supported them. So, in my view, Austria-Hungary was completely justified in invading Serbia.

[@Ariverfish]

Lavader, my man 🤝

[@maximilianschwab9668]

I am stunned by the fact that for more than three years we know that the Brits and the Americans were preparing for WWI, at least since 1909. Why? Because an American oligarch bought the Lusitania's wreck a while ago and he sent a group of divers to the wreck and found out that more than 4 tons of ammunition destined for British weapons still stand in the wreck's cargo holds, even more, it was clear that many more tons of gunpowder filled most parts of the ship because there were outward explosions all over the floating line. German intelligence was aware of this fact and informed His Imperial Majesty and the press about this fact even before the war began. The Brits had a large history of created wars behind the curtains all over Europe, to avoid an attack from France, Spain and then from Germany,a country that got rich through work and science, not killing and stealing from the rest of the planet. A German submarine shot Lusitania's ruder with one torpedo so that afterward German warships could show the world the intentions of both governments to attack Germany existed a priori to the war, but that was impossible, because in 12 minutes the largest and fastest ship of those days sunk into the deeps of the ocean, and the two largest warmongers of our times had the perfect pretext to continue a war that was against the interests of whole Europe. Both governments killed willingly 1200 passengers to enrage the American public opinion against Germany so in 1917 the USA decided to declare war against Germany. It is to say, that by then, more than 40% of the population had German ancestry, and would not want to enter that war.

[@elliottjames8020]

Fascination and I learned a lot. Indeed this last week has caused me to reconsider something else that started the push for alliances prior to WW1; I respect A. J. Mader as a writer; his "Anatomy of British Seapower" makes the case that the links between France and Russian at in the later 1880s resulted in Britain adopting the "Two Power" naval standard that started the first naval arms race - yes there was one prior to the Anglo-German one 1905-1912. However reading "The Transformation of British and American Naval Policy in the Pre-Dreadnought Era" By Rubert Mullins it transpires that the impetuous for the Naval Defence Act 1889 that established the two power standard came from the Admiralty desiring to modernise the Royal Navy and that the Franco-Russian alliance was not aimed at Britiain but was a French move against German driven by revanchism. Once the British started their naval rearmourment programme the French and Russians were driven into a formal alliance for fear of Britian and the possibility of an Anglo-German rapprochement, which was certainly possible prior to Wilhelm the Second.

[@albertofsaxe]

Lavader is definitely biased against Serbia

[@proatnothing4263]

He literally said that early on before most of the history going into it

[@alexschusch7906]

Wierd, under his video a lot of serbs commented that they are glad he was so neutral

[@inovakovsky]

@@alexschusch7906 Well, anglophpne Serbs online tend to be less nationalistic.

[@inovakovsky]

@@proatnothing4263 He said in his profile that he is Bosnian and pro-monarchist.

[@lukashradecky5492]

Definitely but watch till the end to realise that the video wasn't made to demonise Serbs or delegitimise their actions against Austria

[@williamjohnston5315]

Sean Munger also has a pretty great overview of the July Crisis! Great Historian KZbinr.

[@Mile2357]

You would get more unbiased take from Hötzendorf himself than from Bosnian living in Germany. The very fact that Serbia accepted all but one demands of ultimatum was enough to absolve them of responsibility. Princip was not even a member of the Black Hand. He was member of Young Bosnia, a pan-Slavic separatist group based in Bosnia. He completely disregards the will of the people living in Bosnia, as if everyone was pro Austrian.

[@RMSTitanicWSL]

This was an excellent video, and I'm really impressed. The last video of his where he criticized Oversimplified had me doubting this would be worth watching, and I was clearly wrong.