Why Balatro CAN'T Be Better Than Slay the Spire

[@cassidyulysses2648]

Everyone always trying to pin two bad bitches against each other

[@Ikelogic]

LMAOOO

[@18skeltor]

*pit Pulling that NL quote for this kinda took me out

[@gdhdgab]

cuz theyre completely different games? "why cant mario be better than god of war 3 (both games have jump mechanics)"

[@Ikelogic]

Mario and GoW are entirely different genres. StS and Balatro are both (extremely similar) roguelike deckbuilders

[@krisye7]

@@Ikelogic They are so wildly different it's insane you're calling them extremely similar.

[@The_Royal_Goose]

​@@IkelogicOk? Inscryption is a roguelike deckbuilder, but I wouldn't compare it to either balatro or slay the spire

[@apesy800]

Lmfao. This guy compares apples to oranges and wonders why you compared apples to oranges. In essence both games are ENTIRELY different and not even based off each other. Balatro is better btw, because I dig the whole vibe compared to slay the spire which just feels like a mtg draft, not to say that's not a bad vibe it's just I've had that vibe for years already. ​@@Ikelogic

[@dennerrubio8237]

It's weird, I have this sense of progression and climb with Balatro but I don't have with Slay the Spire, when I end a run in StS I don't want to try again but with Balatro i'm always thinking on higher difficulties, unlockables and builds that I could try. It's almost like I have the opposite opinion about everything in this video, and that's awesome, I want more different deckbuilders to play, I feel like every new game tries to much to copy StS, so Balatro was a breath of fresh air.

[@Nakah_z]

Omg I feel the exact same opposite you said. I played balatro for almost 35 hours but every run feels the same. The decks have almost no difference in how the game works like the +1 hand, +1 discard, 10 extra gold, everything makes no difference in how you play. I searched some other decks like the plasma deck and they seem fun, but it's just too much work that I don't feel like it's worth getting it. But for slay the spire? Every character has different cards and the way you play them is very different. I just got my first win with the silent and I don't feel like finishing this game anytime soon and I can't wait to try more different builds. But with balatro I just feel like it's not worth opening it anymore. I already have won 2 times and theres nothing worth to unlock

[@apesy800]

​@@Nakah_zhave you unlocked Checkered, abandoned, and Erratic decks??? They change how you play ENTIRELY. One is two suits, ones no face cards and the other is constantly changing

[@Nakah_z]

@@apesy800 no, i've only unlocked checkered, i might give balatro another try now that you talked about it

[@Nakah_z]

@@apesy800 also, I didn't really wanted to grind that much, since i was getting tired of the game already

[@apesy800]

@@Nakah_z it should be unlocked naturally not grinded out. I'm sorry you feel that way. It should feel like a semi cursed/blessed slot machine. Yes you can have bad luck but there's some broken joker combos you can come up with

[@quebrandojogos]

Balatro also has constant build decisions equivalent to everything past 4:15, it just a different theme. Do you want to get that economy joker early on and be against a wall until late in the game? The path decisions are basically the "skip blind" button, each boss can end up with a gamebreaking debuff. And there is also "so many builds that you can run", do you want to target impeccable joker combos or thin your deck for consistency? Have all suits for variety or multiply into a 80% Spades? Pick a powerful joker with an Eternal sticker that might ruin your run since you can't sell? Also, STS is not innovation, just Dream Quest but actually good, and Monster Slayers came out half a year before STS, which is the only I liked the best because you were actually allowed to create your character, but that's just me

[@Ikelogic]

I was being very reductive haha, but I’ve never heard of Dream Quest or Monster Slayers, I’ll have to check them out!!

[@reaper5242]

I have played hundreds of hours in both games, and I can tell you that balatro is way more addicting. I feel like balatros climb and progression is more open-ended, and I just prefer it over slay. Though slay is still a great game, balatro is just better.

[@GinkgoPete]

I have 1300h in Slay and I dont think either is better than the other. Balatro is much more accesible to fast play and short sessions. Slay is much deeper for long and thought out runs. They are both the peak of Card games

[@Ikelogic]

Yeah I think that’s definitely one thing Balatro has over StS. A slay run could put me over an hour but balatro I can hop in and out in 20-30 mins lol

[@sarahbell180]

I was kind of unimpressed with some defenses in the comments and I want to add my own input and explanation on some particular points on Slay the Spire to avoid being less reductive by looking at core mechanics. It is difficult to do this concisely as the games are quite mechanically different in various layers and so difficult to compare. I'm still going through Balatro and naturally haven't played as much because of similarly feeling less of that strive to do better, but that is to be expected if I take issue and have criticisms. When its said 'Balatro makes score go up', what that means is that the manner you win is generally through quite direct upgrades on stuff directly influencing score. Its a linear relationship. The way to win, ultimately, is a combination of a focused hand type well upgraded, a recurring card type thinned out homogenously in the deck, and Jokers supporting said hand. The real essential Jokers are various '+mult/+chips' towards these categories. Of course there is a balancing act of when to start specializing the deck etc. but the point is, the ultimate gameplan is quite direct. This makes the choices in Balatro feel more one dimensional and less varied since it'll be obvious what fits in in the 'targetted cards/hands' of the deck and what doesn't at a certain poinnt. If I buy a card pack, its less of like 'this will be its own difficult choice' it will be like 'well, ill just buy to get a chance to see if i can get what i need and leave'. The actual way you play your hand doesn't really matter as the best hand will amost surely be that which is the unequivocable top score (plus exceptions to gain money, tarot, planet, etc) It's not uncommon to see people basically just mindlessly skipping through hands and buying stuff. This is never the case on say The Heart, where its a very tense moment of decision making. Slay the Spire is not like this: each card performs unique mechanics that affect your next cards to obtain needed attack or defense against enemies with particular move sets. The way you play your hand matters. The smaller deck means adds much more sense of impact and the more complicated card interaction makes this such much more a balancing act that becomes more significant through varying bosses you can anticipate and are simultaneously dealing with their unique difficulties as you are building your deck rather than 'higher score' and dont need to weigh so much on what enemy you'll fight. It's this constant feeling of weighing choices in Slay the Spire since rarely is the choice every obvious. This is also why, despite Balatros numerous decks and Jokers, I feel Slay the Spire with just its 4 classes has so much more variety: all those synergies and card interactions. This is something Slay the Spire does far better: give this sense of not randomness, not pure skill, but choice and impact, where every choice you make you're weighing the chances. There is a lot, lot, lot more nuances to this comparison but this is the gist of it: I wrote a longer essay before. Balatro does very good in that particular category 'direct upgrade focused pleasing' card game but to me its something that lacks that real sense of 'weight' and 'deliberation' and 'accomplishment'. It just seems 'pleasing' and there are other roguelikes that I'd even put ahead in that strive to succeed (like Touhou: Lost Branch of Legend, not that I play many roguelike deckbuilders).

[@marvinafonso7713]

You should try getting completionist+ in Balatro. It if you have that goal playing Balatro, the game becomes completely different and more rewarding and challenging.

[@systemid12]

i dont care which is better. im just glad i have 2 games that i know ill play until the day i die

[@beezlebubisfly3211]

Balatro has a wider mass appeal. I could never get my Freecell loving Dad to play Slay the Spire but he would definitely give Balatro a try.

[@Ikelogic]

I’ve literally always wanted a way to play poker that didn’t involve gambling lol I love poker. StS for sure harder to get into

[@TrustedJustus]

I understand your points and agree with them. But, I have one reason why I like Balatro more. It has less RNG, but ONLY less. Some RNG is obviously necessary.

[@1Randoman]

Love both games too but was also asking myself why I like STS more recently. I think its mainly variety. In STS you have 4 different characters, at least 3 different playstyles within each character, and many interactions between each of these playstyles and relics. With Balatro, you always have 1 character (the 52 card deck), but with more like 10 different playstyles. Its still a lot but not as variable as STS. Overall Balatro is (to me) a cozy but samey feeling game run to run. Whereas STS is almost always a different experience each time I play

[@ryanlanier2543]

In Balatro, Unlocking higher stakes and completing them is the climb though.

[@MrPezsgess]

I'm just here because I wanted to understand why people like this game. Basically big number = big fun. A basic formula perfectly executed in a small package. The same is applied to Vampire Survivors and others.

[@TheBigBoopy]

3:12 it is very much reductive of the gameplay.

[@CK-yy5pi]

Balatro: New way to play Poker. Slay the Spire: Really fun, feels like Flesh and Blood but singleplayer

[@Realmohg]

I love both games but like balatro more

[@Mrmarch444]

“You just get jokers that makes my number go up. That’s about it” is the stupidest sentence I’ve ever heard. With that logic you could say slay the spire is just getting good cards to do more damage and win. Also, everything you say about the twists and turns is the same for Balatro. Do you buy the buffoon pack and try and get a joker or an arcane one? Which joker do I need to get, or do I try to open an arcane pack to get money to buy both? Is it worth it skip this blind and not get the money? Do I play another hand to scale my joker or just beat the stake and get the extra few dollars? Along with the fact that there’s SO many different decks that change the way you play every time. And while slay the spire does have 4 characters, there’s not nearly as much. A run with the plasma deck is very different than a run with the abandoned deck. I keep playing Balatro and trying to get to and beat that gold stake, but with slay the spire I just didn’t feel the need to play again

[@Ikelogic]

Ouch! I was definitely being reductive, but my point with that was: your win con in Balatro is locked in. You have to target one (or several!) poker hands and get jokers to help you do that. You can change the cards to add mults and chips and change suits and stuff, but at the end of the day, I’m locked into playing a hand. Slay the Spire IS just “do damage and win,” but I think there’s far more variety in how you do that in StS, at least that’s how it feels. The loop in balatro is very samey, just my opinion!

[@orelka1]

@@Ikelogic I would say you're locked into playing a hand in the same way that you're locked into ending your turn in a StS combat. They're both points the player consistently runs into where they must hand control back over to the computer. Obviously you can't discuss every aspect and nuance of both games in 6 minutes, but I would urge you to consider the different ways that a balatro run might approach playing a hand. There's playing a hand to get as many chips as possible, but there are also builds that enjoy "wasting" hands to stack, builds that lead you to use up all your discards, or make do with bad cards to avoid using them, builds that involve discarding or finding specific cards in your deck, builds that want to play weak hands of one variant and strong hands of another to do some mix of the above, builds that focus on creating consumables rather than scoring high, etc. On top of that you have builds that want to skip specific fights altogether to align buff timings or situations where you have to skip to avoid a loss later on, leading to more meta-decision making. This is especially true on the higher antes which throw a lot of wrenches into plans that would be easy to execute on lower difficulties.

[@sarahbell180]

For one, in Balatro, the actual way you play your hand doesn't matter since the cards you play in Balatro don't really impact the future of that round or what you play next. All cards in Slay the Spire impact the next cards through various conditions and mechanics, and even the win state of (remove enemy hp) to lose state (lose your hp) are different mean attacking or blocking is a choice. Your best option in Balatro is always, eventually your best hand (of course discarding to produce it or gambling for idk tarot or planet seals to appear), but I think you see what I mean. So, the actual 'playing aspect' of Slay the Spire matters way more (in Balatro, its not uncommon to see at a certain point someone just speeding through their hands once its good enough at that level far in a run: this rarely happens in Slay the Spire on the heart where careful combinations have to be used, see for instance Snecko Watchers vids). In Balatro, the way score is made is very direct from hand type, card type, and the few jokers. It is quite literally a 'boost these up to get more points to win' level of impact. To emphasize, the point is purely looking at their mechanics and how a win state is achieved: it can be argued in this aspect it doesn't matter and variety doesn't show up in other ways, but I'm clarifying the point on what is meant 'Balatro is about making score go higher' and why its not as appealing to us Slay the Spire players. The actual impact on this win condition in playing is more linear to the web of synergies of Slay the Spire to achieve sufficient attack, defense, energy, and draw to win. In Slay the Spire, you'll get caked if you just grab 'high attack, high defense' as mechanically synergistic builds matter much more. Also, while Slay the Spire 'only' has 4 different characters, each one plays entirely differently that its another world whereas most decks in Balatro are minor variations and don't fundamentally alter build especially by the end. This is not to mention the variety within each character that produces unique subbuilds that are in constant flux, something that I can't see happening in other Balatro decks.

[@BOBTHEBUILD67ER]

i like the video and i agree with some part but i agree that you don't have to think about your choices in the early stakes and that is what i personally like is that is start of the game is very forgiving and that i don't really have to watch thing to see what is. which is how i felt in the start of slay the spire but i also think that balatro i would say is harder in the hardest difficultly but it is defo hard and isn't easy to do but just not as hard as slay the spire. i also really enjoy that you can see how far you can go in balatro in the endless mode after you win and i am sure there is probs a mod to do that but i really enjoy that i don't have to just give up my amazing run after i have beat the final boss. i also think that as you go higher in the stakes you start to have to think those question you were talking about in this video but anyway overall i think both games are amazing and i would recommend both to anyone but i personally think that balatro is just a bit better for the forgivingness in the early difficulty's so you can understand the game and that i can play my run until it end and of course i like the sounds and seeing my number go into the E's.

[@Ikelogic]

Oh endless mode is definitely something Balatro has over StS too. Early Balatro is definitely very forgiving, and it does get harder, but maybe I just suck at StS more than I suck at Balatro lol

[@thenarwhalmage]

>Complains about the game being too simple and samey >Is playing on white stake in all of his gameplay footage Huh, I wonder why the game might be too easy while you're playing on the easiest difficulty?

[@Ikelogic]

you caught me! tbh that's only because I don't have any recorded footage of me playing Balatro outside of what I recorded for this video (you can just check my channel lol) but also, I would argue that the higher stakes just require you to make your win con even tighter which means less variety. StS has this problem too, but that's just what happens when you need to go meta every time the game gets harder. I just think that in the earlier stakes/ascensions, sts offers more in terms of variability

[@thenarwhalmage]

​@@Ikelogic Higher stakes don't kill variety, they mandate cohesiveness. There are plenty of viable strategies for gold stake, but you need to have jokers and deck building that work together. I'd argue that the addition of stickers like eternal, perishable, and rental add to the strategy and variety more then they take away. If your response to higher difficulties is that there are too few ways to win them, then I think you have only won them by getting lucky, and to that I have to say "skill issue." Sure there are meta joker combinations, like Hanging Chad + photograph, but there are tons of viable ways to beat gold stake with unique builds. Burglar + jokers that scale with played hands like spare trousers or square joker. Combining retriggers with gold seals in order to get the money to roll into better jokers. Splash + flowerpot. There's also the complexities of having to take an eternal joker early that's suboptimal later on.

[@Mr.Coffee576]

Both are great. Balatro is addictive but I feel the game has a lot of luck factor involved to have a successful run. Meanwhile Slay the Spire has more fun card effects which opens up more possibilities of creating the perfect strategy.

[@Rose_Tinted1]

I have about 2k hours in both, but 10k in one step from eden. Fair to say i dont consider either to be the peak of the genre (either dream quest or eden imo) but they're both incredible games, and in contention for best of all time

[@yuscilfer1429]

Just say that the reason Balatro could never be better than STS is because of the gameplay, in STS you fight monsters, period. In Balatro, you fight the dealer. It is not exciting if you put one with the other. It is valid the you would feel excited because you prefer something over the other. But to say that Balatro can't be better than STS is outrageous. Because to people, beauty is at the eye of the beholder. Other people may find the opposite of your opinion. Let's use your own words to delve into this; "There are so many working parts and systems in place to make every single climb up the Spire feel different, dozens of cards, relics, potions, tweaks to make difficulties that make each run harder than the last." 1st - There are 4 different class in STS, 5 if you have the Hermit class (Downfall Mod), and these class has atleast 3 to 4 distinct builds. Because of how limiting and repetitive that is, the community already spawned multiple mods for the game. I mean the game is 5 years old already (7 if you add the early access). You could say that, with the amount of modded run that Slay the Spire can achieve almost infinity, but the base game isn't. It is so limiting as to why the community modded it, as long as the community will keep creating mods for it that its potential is endless, unless Slay the Spire 2 comes out. 2nd - In Balatro, there are 15 different decks with pros and cons built to them with infinite possibilities, why? Because your character isn't tied to any class, so your build is only limited of your imagination. In STS, there are rare case that your class can get a card from another class, but because it is so rare for it to happen that you can't make a build for it. Heck even in STS, there are relics that are tied personally to classes, unlike in Balatro, all the Jokers are free of class limitations. 3rd - The different ambient or emotion that we have when we are playing these games isn't the same, when you play Balatro, you want to chill and relax. But if you play STS, you want adventure. 4th - I have to put another game into the mix because I've played that game before STS so, in Indies' Lies, you can sell your consumables to make ends meet if you are short in gold, in STS there is no way for you to sell your consumables and relics. In STS, you can only rest and upgrade in 1 place, in Indies' Lies, there is the Goddess Shrine to heal and remove curse, and a place where you smith your cards punching a hole in them and upgrading with runes. Speaking of upgrading, you can only upgrade your card once in STS except for that Ironclad card that you can upgrade endlessly. In Indies' Lies, you can upgrade cards from 3 up to 5, putting Innate on it, making it 0 cost, taking out the exhaust effect, you modify it however you want. It is the same with Balatro where you tinker a single card multiple times. The mechanic of selling is the SELLING point of Balatro's economy (pun intended), you can buy Jokers and sell them if your gameplay evolve enough that it doesn't require the said Joker, you can sell even consumables. I can't believe that there is still no STS mod that has the mechanics to sell (not that I've known of). Other than that, nice video. You really showed the things that you like about STS.

[@urd3adnow]

a great soundtrack and dopamine inducing sound effects are *absolutely* enough for me tbh

[@Ikelogic]

This is so valid

[@Kirbyster]

Balatro is junk food and StS is a gourmet meal. Both good but one is much higher quality and more enduring.

[@DaCookyooker]

desactivating shown likes&dislikes explains everything hahaha

[@joemac8694]

I completely agree. Love both games and it mostly comes down to personal preference but the “climb” in spire is really what got me hooked for the long term. It just feels like it has more depth and meaningful decisions.

[@teddyfurstman1997]

Why not like Both? They are sold Card Roguelikes.

[@bart7161]

both are different games. who cares

[@erfaniom9576]

balatro is better than StS by the simple fact that it has endless, StS does have endless but it's a whole different mode, you can't really count that

[@Ikelogic]

The people yearn for an endless mode in StS 2 🙏🏼🙏🏼 please Mega Crit

[@sarahbell180]

I feel Slay the Spire wasn't designed for endless: Slay the Spires very deliberate, predictable, balanced progression system is the entire point.

[@erfaniom9576]

@@sarahbell180 i dont care about no balance, im a clear the screen with one shot in isaac guy, im a i cant even see where im going in risk of rain guy, im a naneinf in balatro guy, in sts you can do stuff like this but just as youre feeling powerful and maybe even infinite in sts the game ends sts doesnt accommodate for game busters like me i hope sts 2 does

[@nahlies2382]

You did NOT cook

[@honukane242]

Complains about the game being too simple. Is playing white stake

[@imdaltino]

algo really serving up slop