How To Kill a MMORPG in 1 Day

[@IdylOnTV]

Get up to 26% off on Displate during their Christmas sale using my link displate.com/?art=674dda42c89c0 and use my discount code 'IDYL'! Check them out today and don't miss out! Remember guys, 1 like = 1 evolution to your favorite game

[@TreeFrogOnATree]

dis plate more like dis nuts

[@roxaskinghearts]

say some event makes most of osrs players move games for a bit whos to say they wont do the same to osrs

[@PunkDogCreations]

Don't use God's name in vain.

[@GuntWastelander]

@@roxaskingheartsokay and?

[@roxaskinghearts]

@@PunkDogCreations you people fail god every day

[@nayuta_23]

> Competition comes and drives player to the new thing > Game changes mecanics that makes it uniques and replace them with mecanics that makes it just like the competition > Players move away from your game because it has lost its originality

[@sirlagged]

Basically the story of MMOs since WoW released. So many games fell into this trap since then, it's insane.

[@TopChev]

>'ing in 2024

[@templarkid.]

funny how it happens even to bands and movie franchises. they remove their uniqueness to replicate what everyone is doing.

[@anusaukko6792]

@@TopChev If it ain't broke...

[@grandcanyon2]

​ @sirlagged 😂 insane they try to be like wow players get upset and say i might as well play wow instead of this bad copy version

[@Wizurdous]

blows my mind that an update can lose you half the playerbase and you dont just immediately undo it?

[@Webmaster4531]

I wonder what's going to happen to your mind when I tell you they didn't even back up the game to be able to undo it.

[@minoritymind]

​@@Webmaster4531 Guess you killed him...

[@arthas236]

Too much ego at play-it's the curse of successful gaming companies. They start believing they know what players want better than the players themselves. It's the classic 'You think you do, but you don't' mindset.

[@SelectKiko]

I dont think jagex had ever rolled back an update at that point

[@shaneroberts9702]

Yep, and in a bit sailing will do the same thing to old school... Rip my favorite game

[@Rathial]

Jagex watched this and was like do it again

[@RemoHazard]

he forsure gotta make a new vid on how Jagex completely messed up once again. Imagine if homie took the time to make a plugin to demonstrate how awful ADscape would be. It would be unplayable af, Right after a word from today's sponsor: Honey.

[@fourthknower9831]

Its actually venture capital at fault, since they bought jagex

[@BraerE]

The weight of being President of MMORPGs is taking its toll as Idyl progressively loses more of his torso to green screen with every video

[@MimzieMalley]

Soon he will just be a set of eyes 👀

[@GylleneGott]

MODOK Idyl when?!

[@MrCokewithice]

every video he loses a pixel and nobody knew... until now

[@HavocParadox]

So as someone that was a beta tester for Eoc and earned the Gamebreaker title for my feedback during the Eoc beta.. I will 100% say.. jagex ignored a lot of the concerns of the people that gave feedback.. As soon as they announced the release date of Eoc All and i mean ALL of the other people that would later be given the gamebreaker title begged jagex not to release the Eoc in the state it was in.

[@Clawdragoons]

I remember testing out the beta and my thought was "this is an interesting skeleton, maybe once they flesh it out and fix the problems in the however many years before this gets released, it'll be in good shape." When they were like "okay great it's being added to the game now", I swear I was stunned. Like, it did not occur to me that this was supposed to be the finished product. I know they called it a "beta" but between how it felt and how quickly things were moving... it did not seem plausible that they actually MEANT beta. Surely it was an alpha, right? But no. I didn't actually quit when EoC came out though. I gave up on combat and kept at skilling. It was eventually the MTX shenanigans that were too much for me and made the game miserable.

[@ElysianAura]

They even wrote about it in their 20 year book. Basically just said that they saw all the negative feedback but that between EoC itself and upcoming updates that they would have had a massive dry period and were worried that that would kill the game. I honestly think this alternate OSRS canon ended up being the better thing anyways, but they probably should have just realized that no one really wanted to move that way, just people were willing to give it up in favor of the rest of the game they loved.

[@HavocParadox]

@@ElysianAura If i remember correctly too.. Mmg the ceo at the time had the final say if eoc should happen or not and he regretted it.

[@themosthighvaluemaninthega9048]

@@Clawdragoons I quit as soon as they dropped EoC.

[@nicholasleach2019]

Yeah same. I put over 100 hours into the beta, they said we valued your opinions. Me and plenty of other said "hey we need an auto ability applier or this isn't going to work" and it took 4 years for revolution

[@jaguarsabre]

Love how the B-roll for someone who has never played runescape is just a guy outside exercising, too accurate lol

[@thatguy6227]

Not just any guy, but David Goggins lol

[@carlossandoval6940]

Anyone remember when the tutorial was changed to a lair defending against a dragon in lumb? Or im i crazy? kzbin.info/www/bejne/goimfHujgaeDjs0si=HHLbrMUwRON3iae5 here is a footage!

[@trechubet1555]

Round the time I created my dh pure

[@VTsiFanfic]

You fought a dragon in the tutorial? All I had were rats lol.

[@jeromy3848]

it was interesting, and I was confused after coming back after remembering that and noticed it wasn't there anymore.

[@Neuhier]

You're absolutely right, that tutorial did indeed exist

[@ixskill0z]

Yeah i remember this.

[@Clbull118]

You kinda sugarcoated RS3's decline. It wasn't just the Evolution of Combat. It was a mix of really unpopular updates like the Unbalanced Trade Limit, removal of Wilderness PKing, Summoning, Squeal of Fortune, etc. EOC was the final nail in the coffin. And also, OSRS didn't eclipse RS3 until it started getting its own dedicated content updates (originally OSRS was just going to be the game as it was in August 2007 pre God Wars dungeon, no updates and no Grand Exchange.)

[@Sassy_Witch]

removal of PK in wildy wasnt that bad. OSRS has PK in wildy and its the biggest horseapple ever and only encourages botters and corrupt clans.

[@emilgebl8644]

@@Sassy_Witch Man, anyone with a brain quit when they removed the trading + wilderness, that's what killed th game.

[@G773NOriginal]

He did mention PK, SoF, skills and stuff it just wasn't the focus of the video.

[@gfyoseph]

If you were around at the time most people really quit after the trade limits and the wilderness removal was another nail in the coffin.

[@Rose337]

Right, I feel like I'm being gaslit here. RuneScape (quite notoriously, I'd say) wasn't killed in a day, it was was a sequence of bad decisions over several years. As you say, it was already on a wild downward spiral long before EoC.

[@EQOAnostalgia]

If you lose your audience to the new thing, while retaining your diehard fans... selling out is a surefire way to kill your remaining fanbase

[@Unserioussam328]

old school runescape succeeding is the only part of this timeline I'm okay with so far.

[@antonio6873]

That's how you know shits really off

[@drackdude]

yea but its quickly going in the same failing direction as before, wont be long now till old oldschool rs becomes a thing lol

[@kennyvallance8961]

@@drackdude Explain how, it's literally got more players than it ever used to have, even pre EOC, and growing.

[@drackdude]

@@kennyvallance8961 Gladly, botting has never been worse off, what you are seeing is a massive inflation of bots, the real player base is quite minimal 10-25k at best. Think that's wrong? Explain why gold prices are at an all time low. Massive supply and very low demand, basic economics. Explain why any world you log in most areas are dead aside from g.e (maybe a couple other spots). The only time the game "grows" with real players is when leagues/deadman mode come out. Once those are done the base goes back to declining, or at best stable. Other than that it's just inflated numbers due to bots (maybe alts as well).

[@Unserioussam328]

​@@drackdude gold prices are going down because people are liquidating their bank to pay for bonds during leagues. this is having a knock on effect and people see the values of big ticket items going down so they sell as well to try and avoid major losses. big ticket items are going down because people are stupid. this, I think, is the REAL basics of economics. Stupid people making stupid decisions and fucking everything up for no reason other than they're stupid. prices will go back up in a few months.

[@J3dotgg]

As someone that has actively kept playing throughout EOC and also actively plays oldschool (maxed on both varieties of the game with lots of pvm hours in both), I do feel like there is a lot of misinformation about EOC in the section explaining what changed. Special attackes were not decoupled, they were outright removed and the abilities did not outright copy/paste the specs. Special attacks were also later added back to these weapons in their original form (too little too late ofc). Adding to this, not all gear offers lifepoint bonuses in EOC, only tank gear does. And tank gear bar some exceptions is completely useless in most scenarios. The reason pures became obsolete was not the lifepoint changes, it is that the formula for combat was completely rewritten giving a much higher weighting to defence/hp and only factoring in your highest style aligned damage skill. This formula change on top of how utterly broken eoc is (and was) in pvp broke all reasons to build a pure account. Also, the statement that eoc made "every aspect of the game more hardcore" is also objectively false. Another reason EOC was seen as controversial was that it actually made a lot of skilling methods MORE AFK. The actionbar can for example be used to drop items whilst gathering without interrupting the gathering action by merely holding down a button, this rubbed a lot of skillers the wrong way at the time after having spent lots of hours mousekey (or manual) dropping their fish. Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you are saying in this video, but the description of the sentiment and the facts of the time in 2012 don't ring true to me.

[@fallenone4108]

As someone who only dipped my toes into I can't agree with you. Back during that time there was a lot a misinformation going around is something I can agree with..... but that was part of the issue. No one knew what the hell was going on and people who didn't want/like the change, like myself, just didn't give it the time of day. While you ended up liking it and stuck with it most people just left because of the massive changes and not knowing about any of it. You also have to remember back in those days Jagex told us nothing but what they wanted to and they didn't give much other then here's the changes figure it out.

[@lordfizzz]

Appreciate your perspective having maxed both games

[@J3dotgg]

@@fallenone4108 Oh for sure, and don't get me wrong I absoletely did not like eoc combat for a long time after it released. I just spent the first year or so abusing the action bar for skilling for the most part whilst jagex ran back and attempted to fix their shit. Especially slayer was dogshit until malevolence and later revolution came about. The fallout was felt for sure though, I was at the helm of a big clan at the time and we purged about 200 inactive accounts (roughly half of the clan) after the first year of EOC. Everyone had their own reasons for leaving at the end of the day.

[@heyday1233]

It feels like you've missed the point with the special attack section, the complaint made in the video was that they killed special attack weapon costs and the outright use of them weapons by removing the special attack system, and adding it as an ability. Which, is what you seem to agree with? Also the "adding it back later" doesn't matter, it's not about the current state of EoC, you can't cover up the UPDATE and a critique of that update with the defence of "oh it was fixed later"

[@TigerFangRS]

This

[@Krome08]

One thing you didn't mention is how instating the 30 k gp trade limit destroyed the economy as well, as it severely limited how it affected what people could do with their in-game wealth. Actually, you could probably do an entire video on that concept! It destroyed wilderness/pking, which was a large part of the game for many players, and also stimulated the economy for skillers who wanted to provide mats and items for pkers.

[@jmtradbr]

The problem of EoC is that they tried to transform a decade old game into a WoW clone, ignoring their entire player base.

[@DannehBoi90]

It's a little funny how one of the changes with EoC was giving monsters weaknesses, which now OSRS has. EoC did it in a way that framed it to be punishing to use the wrong style. OSRS did it in a way that frames it as a positive thing by lowering defenses against a weakness, and keeping the rest of the defenses similar. Or picking an element of magic and giving a bonus to damage and accuracy using that element.

[@NKBlazer]

Extremely coincidental timing. Was there a leak and this was an early warning??

[@GhostLyricist]

A lot of people think EoC killed Runescape, but it was actually the microtransactions. EoC actually held onto a good number of players until they started adding more microtransactions into the game. They even added a system where you could turn off EoC skills and play like the old game. They took the entire integrity of the game and made it so you could buy any 99 you want.

[@demoncushion9600]

So wait... they listened to the people who LEFT, and NOT the people who stayed??? Wtf??

[@N1korasu]

Well when you want to make more money you ask the people who aren't playing what will get them to play it only works like 40% of the time

[@wolfrig2000]

Which part? The RuneScape devs didn't listen to either. I'm playing it right now and we're still complaining.

[@wowitsfrostygames155]

I mean… duh? “You left our game, why?” Seems like one of the important questions devs should ask. The bigger problem is when you listen to neither.

[@Immad1337]

That's a pretty common sense approach, bud.

[@ImknownbyX]

Everyone seems to forget the update was released based on the “survey” at the end of the tutorial which asked a yes or no if you liked the new combat system and they released it based on those votes

[@commando0110]

they did that?! wow. so ask new ppl that kniw nothing about the fame

[@juanpablo-z9h8b]

thats crazy, RIP runescape, it willnever be our childhood game since then💔

[@GreatestGames777]

I was there, getting scammed from some asshole trying to tell me hey I can trim your rune armor. Lmfao. On top of it when they released EOC they also released that stupid patch that wouldn't allow people to trade properly. This whole game fell apart so fast I remember everyone screaming at the banks. It was crazy.

[@SanityPotion776]

22:30 I think you skipped out on a detail here that was quite important, OSRS wasn't given to us necessarily. WE as players had to meet a series of stretch goals to both get OSRS in the first place AND the level of support and ongoing updates OSRS has today.

[@yumivt]

me pausing the video and checking the timestamps to see if this is a starwars galaxies video: is this rly abt runescape? the timestamps: this isn't a star wars galaxies video

[@godssons6979]

honestly i do not possibley see how runescape moderators didn't know there players thoughts on this. there were FULL ON RIOTS IN GAME FOR OVER A YEAR and EVERY ONE TALKING ABOUT THE GAME DID NOT WANT THIS UPDATE. Them saying that they didn't know what the players wanted should honestly not have been possible at all. its honestly pathetic. whoever came up with the idea for EOC was fired if i remember right after they 85% of their player base until osrs was released and they still never recovered completely.

[@CardinalsOSRS]

I wish more people tried RS3 Ironman. It’s actually really good. I picked it up a few months ago and I’m now playing actively almost every day. -your friendly decade long OSRS player

[@BcuzIC4n]

This 20 year RS3 main appreciates you

[@bransonallen2925]

RS3 Ironman is how the game should be played, bar none.

[@Mr15moss]

nah im good

[@quarkers6096]

Underrated comment. Nearly maxed main on osrs gave rs3 ironman a try after some harassment from a friend and it's surprisingly good. Haven't played osrs in a few months.

[@themosthighvaluemaninthega9048]

Nice try, Jagex. I'm not falling for that one.

[@UnOrdelyConduct]

Damn Idyl saying dungeoneering is just bad makes me feel sad

[@abposrs]

Yea I disagree with Idyl on that one, and thats fine.. its mostly a matter of preference at the end of the day

[@omegahaxors9-11]

Nah it's bad. Tons of horrible design, most of it intentional. You going to tell me waiting for a golem to SLOWLY walk around a circle so they can open the door AT THE OTHER END OF THE ROOM is acceptable game design? Don't even get me started on rushing: Take all the pacing problems of DG and amplify it by 1,000,000,000.

[@Dustpetro]

As someone who's maxed a main and iron on rs3, all I will say is that I'm overjoyed that you can pay people to run dung floors and irons can group with other irons now. Dungeoneering is just as bad as agility

[@rsdudetsom]

Anyone who thinks dungeoneering is fun never got 99 let alone 120

[@NanosoftRussia]

It wasnt bad if he had friends

[@t_z1030]

I honestly have to thank Jagex for breaking my Runescape addiction. I'd already lost a lot of enthusiasm when summoning happened, and then mostly checked out of the game after dungeoneering came out (oh and the murder of the wilderness, boy that was a good one), because all of the best gear started to be gated behind content I didn't enjoy. And then EoC came out, I read the update notes, and I literally never even logged in to try it. Just dropped the game like a rock and didn't look back. Never been addicted to another game the same way since which has been very positive for life in general.

[@andrewfornes5320]

Same dude. I was heavy into Pking with Ranged & addicted as hell but had the same road as you to stopping my addiction.

[@TheAlimation]

Yeah same here

[@sarumon17]

Hey idyl, just wanted to say that because of your videos I jumped into wow classic HC after only playing the game back in like 2006 for a couple months. The HC experience really encourages a huge amount of partying and friendly cooperation that I had never seen it before. Idk why I watched your videos because I never really considered myself an mmo gamer.

[@JonasDegnemark]

I knew exactly what the video was about by reading the title and looking at the thumbnail - I've seen this exact subject about EOC so many times, still watched the whole thing

[@TheMrFancyKiwi]

I miss how comically overpowered Dharoks was during the EoC beta

[@amogusenjoyer]

I think what people also forget is that it really was bad at release, like much worse than it eventually got. A lot of rs3 players defend eoc and the fact that it happened ("it wasn't bad, i still have a lot of fun with it!!"), but dont seem to take into consideration that a lot of changes were either reverted or added (revolution, etc). Its now kind of ok, if we forget the fact that it is still a super odd system for a game based on such a slow game tick, but its incredible that they really tried dumping it all in basically a single game update, overnight, and completely undercooked as it was on release. It truly was a shock. Also, i remember them initially sweeping everything under the rug under the pretenses that it was a beta, yet releasing basically everything that the beta had with very minor changes.

[@mukithasan9684]

It's more like ego. The main dev left and the new lead what to show they can do better which they flopped massively

[@ziptink1710]

RS3 without all of the gambling is actually good. I’m on OSRS now, but only after I achieved some things on my 20yo account that I always wanted to.

[@toto3777]

Jagex's problem has always been their arrogance and ego, from their weird rules imposing ridiculous draconian restrictions and bans all the way to their updates that never considered players' input.

[@Mikerich_94]

"we do what millionaires do...we get assassinated" LOL Made me check the upload date I don't remember the EoC abilities being leaked a year prior too. Good info

[@JohnJWhite]

Hey Idyl, what is your opinion on the lost minigame, Stealing Creation? I saw a couple clips of it in the video and I miss the minigame.

[@MetaFrostyy]

I think it's a little disingenuous to suggest that RS3 could have done combat the way OSRS did. Oldschool has the benefit of its entire existence being in the context of remaining in the limitations of the original game. The main game ALWAYS tried to push the limits and evolve, so without the hindsight we have, the logic that drove the update made a lot of sense. Personally though I like RS3's combat a lot more, so even if it had growing pains and could've been done better to begin with, I think it was the right decision. Plus, oldschool would never exist in its current state had it not happened. Seems like a win in the end for everyone.

[@Gobble-mike-hawk]

"Yeah our town got nuked but the crater has some flowers growing on it so it's ok". Why would anyone play RS3 instead of WoW, FF14, GW2 or even ESO (lmao) if they want to play a hotbar MMO? Also, they didn't know that they had a backup of OSRS in case the game was hemorrhaging players and still they went on with EoC. Implying that EoC was a good thing is mental. Without OSRS, RS3 wouldn't exist anymore.

[@Jeffrey-x6q]

@@Gobble-mike-hawkhave u tried it? I play it and its good

[@ioverslept.]

​@@Gobble-mike-hawkdumbest thing ive read today

[@YoungLiam74]

@@Gobble-mike-hawk That's so fucking brain dead it's ridiculous. The game survives in spite of OSRS.

[@WH40KHero]

@@Gobble-mike-hawk Because unlike in WoW, FF14, GW2 and ESO in RS3 you are far less limited by how you want or need to play. You don't have a strict class that you select upon character creation, you can switch it up if you like anytime you want. I don't have to make a different character and play through the game again just because i feel like doing magic today rather then melee, or vice versa.

[@Wierie_]

Oh boy another hot one, I would be surprised if this video actually goes against the boring mainstream narrative

[@Jerbod2]

Why do modern youtubers hold a microphone when a lavalier or other microphone pointed in their direction have been invented for a good while?

[@renatatostada3318]

Why does anyone do anything? It's a choice, man. It's not that deep.

[@Yuniferi]

@@renatatostada3318 Then it's a stupid choice.

[@treimar]

It was for sure an unpopular update but weirdly enough that is when I started to play seriously. I guess I'm the rare exception, I maxed, got into PvM and was super active in a big clan. My best memories of RS are from 2014-2016 in RS3. I eventually got bored and gambled all my billions away at the duel arena, subsequently quitting the game.

[@blueregiment]

Yoo Porter Robinson in the outro? Didnt know Idyl was a man of culture!

[@ListersHatsune]

I was one of the people who left. I will say, before EOC was some of the best times of my life and a lot of it did come down to how comforting the grind was. I could watch anime while I played. I was watching Sword Art Online at the time and as cringe as it sounds, I wasn't just watching it, I was living it. I couldn't do that after EOC and no other game allowed me to either. It wasn't till OSRS that I could again

[@gattlinggrunt1473]

I want you to know that I only made it to 2:31 and then had to spend the next hour of my life trying to remember what that song was. Edit: It was Porter Robinson - Goodbye to a World

[@jsen]

thx though, you saved me an hour.

[@Googahgee]

It’s not quite the original, it’s a cover of some sort. Has anyone found that specific cover?

[@apotheosis2065]

Great song

[@apotheosis2065]

​@@Googahgee sounds like an 8bit version or something

[@L-A-C-IV]

🦀 MarkDonalds 🦀

[@Aeon_ic]

Man, I'm really mixed on these types of videos. This video does nothing to address or cover all of the fixes that Jagex did specifically to fix most of the things you mentioned in this video in a meaningful way. Without addressing that with the same depth that you did for the stuff that no longer exists, people are likely to get the impression that things are still like this and continue to hate what is currently a fun system. It just serves to divide the community more over old information that isn't relevant these days. That all being said, Jagex certainly did a controversial job when it was initially released, and a review like this is necessary for future references for big changes. I'd be hesitant to call it a retrospective though as it's still actively being used and enjoyed by a lot of people.

[@neoflogin22]

I think a big point of his video at the end was that it was too little too late even if it is good or fixed now. His premise on the video seemed to me how EOC has irreversibly changed the game and the result is a drop in player count that'll never recover despite the new system being good and there having been a second option made of OSRS. And despite both being good and pushing their limits in great ways now there's still scars of the old EOC update present in retrospective.

[@Aeon_ic]

@@neoflogin22 I'm not sure I'd say the player count drop is really all that end of the world type stuff yet. RS3 generally averages about a 1/4 the player base OSRS does on normal days as it is right now at 32k vs 125k. The data he shows is exaggerated as it includes Leagues figures, so it's not exactly a normal comparison as one is normal content vs an event. Bots are also a factor, but it's hard to get definitive figures for that for both games. I think it's generally agreed though that OSRS has a much larger bot problem than RS3 does. Either way, I do agree on the option of OSRS as it does just inherently introduce a divide in the community. A nice point in both's favor though is that membership is across both versions as RS3 membership and OSRS membership are the same and one character on one version has membership on the other at the same time, although they can't be played simultaneously.

[@SSXVegeta]

It's called click bait 1:36 in I'm closing video

[@QT-Sei]

RS3 is ugly. It's covered in MTX, dailies, "hubs" - things that look chintzy and artificial and sad. Things that remind a player of a private server. You're the "world guardian"... Yeah, ok. It's not fun.

[@Sassy_Witch]

these essay videos are the new tiktok shorts of youtube. They put clickbaity titles for the algorythm, do basic level surface research to paint it as negatively as possible and drag the entire thing to a few hours while saying absolutely nothing or adress none of the actual thematic. I'm so sick and tired of these slop videos. I just block these channels but they're poppin out like mushrooms

[@WreckageX]

Sir I'm going to need my money back over the whole zulrah displate advertisement picture. lmao

[@justinmetcalfe2259]

Babe wake up new Idyl just dropped

[@wvvwwvwvv]

"Really!? Move fleshlight, i gotta turn my computer on!" 🤣

[@olwynskye417]

I've tried to get into this game a few times. Make an account, play for few hours, login next day to do few hours and so on. Happen to take a break for few weeks to play other games I'm interested in, only to come back to an account that has been perma banned for botting or something else (which I've never done in any game). This is something that would prevent me from ever even thinking about buying the subscription. Try again few years later and the same keeps happening so now I just don't even bother any more.

[@Kajj94]

The current state of the game as of posting this, EoC has let so much new stuff be able to happen in the game. There are more mechanics to fights, raids, and other bosses. Yes i know OS also has these things but its completely different. When doing bosses now I have to use abilities to block stuns, mitigate damage, switch aggro between people or many, many other things to allow playing the fights properly to offer a more rewarding experience. The way it was implemented wasn't the way they should have done it and tested it a lot more then they did. So many people shit on this update and i don't disagree with them. When EoC was released was an absolute disaster but I encourage people to give it a shot in its current state. They don't penalize you vs creatures of weaker types, special attacks are now back with weapons and a core part of pvm and the XP penalty is no longer there. All of the issues that it started with (and i am not defending it, they needed to really sit back and take the time to figure this out better) are resolved in a gameplay sense. End game PvM is a very fun experience and not something i plan on stopping. I feel if they want people to come back to the game they need to solve the issues that OS has solved with RuneLite but not relying on a outside client to make the game better and take away the MTX or limit it to cosmetic items only. The only way i could see this working is on a set of Fresh Start servers that don't merge with the main RS3 game. Another thing is yes, OSRS has vastly more real players in the game at a time compared to RS3, but RS3 also doesn't have hugely inflated numbers due to botting issues and this is never taken into account when graphs are shown with current numbers and is always presented as "bigger number here better" and i feel a lot of context is lost in videos like these that only explain what happened 12 years ago, not what is happening now and 25 minutes isn't enough time to explain everything fully or to even give an understanding to those who have never even experienced it and are relying on the viewpoints of others that influence if they will try it or even enjoy it. However, the game is faster with leveling. The main portion of rs3 doesn't open up until later on, much like OS, but they made it easier to get into those higher level situations and get a foot in with Necromancy. I'm sure i wont be the only one saying this either but if you decide to give RS3 a shot, do it as an ironman if you don't like Treasure Hunter or the like and no mtx pops up on ironmen. (Solomon store cosmetics will show when new ones release but these do not offer any bonuses). Both versions of the game have their own things that make them enjoyable. I am pretty much maxed in rs3 and working on maxing in osrs and the only difference that i am feeling overall is the combat. Many of the training methods are exactly the same until high leveled end game and being realistic, if you enjoy the bosses in OS then you will like the ones in RS3, they are taking ideas and bosses from each other (EX: Vorkath from OS to RS3 and Araxxor from Rs3 to OS) and adding them to both games, same with weapons, they might have different names but side by side they are copies of each other that mostly do the same things with some numbers changed to make them viable for the game their in. I understand if people don't like it but the point i am trying to get across is videos like this always seem to show what happened in the past and don't give what's going on now so people seem to, for whatever reason, be under the impression that the issues at the launch of it are still present in the game today and that just simply isn't true or they shut their mind out to being open to the possibility that it has changed and are stuck with the opinions they had. If you played anytime recently and got to experience the full use of how combat abilities can be and don't like the combat that's fine and completely understandable. A lot of what I'm saying isn't directed specifically at Idyl but to a lot of the people who play RuneScape in general. I love both versions of the game, I've grown up and played RuneScape for 20 years now but we need to move on from a 12 year old update and look at what the games currently offer and what they both bring to the table, EoC didn't kill RuneScape, but if we keep letting MTX happen how it is it's going to ruin both versions.

[@Wierie_]

nostalgia merchant can't speak his mind cuz he cares about the views. the kind to safe face whenever necessary for dem sweet dollar signs

[@Kajj94]

@@Wierie_ This is his job, you also make money at your job or will when you work. He is passionate about RuneScape and wants to share about it but we as viewers and players are also passionate about the game and I like to add my input to things that I feel are not fully covered or could use another video explaining everything better. Nothing about this video is “wrong” but could use more insight to other aspects imho.

[@greycrimson3228]

100% agree except Vorkath. Mechanically seems quite different and it isn't really enjoyed in RS3.

[@Kajj94]

@@greycrimson3228 Was just used as an example, the fights are not the same. The Araxxor OS fight isn’t the same either, theyre tailored to the mechanics and game theyre in. Vorkath in rs3 isn’t “liked” but this comparison could be made with other things too that are shared between both of one being “better” than the counterpart.

[@AsianRailgun]

Well said. MTX is the real killer of RS3.

[@maxlevelmedia7448]

Absolutely love that you gave some love to SWG - one of my top MMOs ever. Grew up on this game.

[@Starved4Dopamine]

2:57 "oh hi Josh!"

[@bobthor9647]

With most games, if they are popular for a while, it's a success. MMOs face the unique challenge of a game that never ends- and how to keep players playing

[@mwithz]

I'm sort of disappointed? I was expecting an actual retrospective but it felt like you had a narrative from the get go of how you wanted to storyboard this video. Understandable since you are a fan of Old School RuneScape but I expected a deeper analysis of the Combat mechanics in current RuneScape 3 or even more analysis of the key issues of the Combat post EOC release rather than just surface level wiki research and showcasing the tutorial combat system. I thought when you explained The Inferno you would showcase RuneScape 3's equivalent in the Zuk encounter but you didn't since you clearly had a narrative you wanted to explain. Either way solid video but you should've also gone into depth about RuneScape Classic Combat transition to RS2 Combat too if you were going to cover this topic. I know I am biased to RS3 btw but I've played through all 3 iterations so it felt quite incomplete especially with how current RS3 combat works towards the end game and the ignoring of Classic's combat system.

[@heyday1233]

I mean you went into this video knowing he prefers OSRS. It was objectively bad, objectively the majority of the player base didn't want it and actively revolted against it. Expecting there not to be bias is kinda on you brother Im not saying the actual combat system is objectively bad, but the update, was. Also it's about the update from what I can tell, not the current state of rs3

[@mwithz]

@@heyday1233 I was expecting a retrospection based off the title to be honest. Idyl's pretty good at looking at the bigger picture of MMO games and I was expecting quite a bit of solid research on the subject matter. Either way I hope he comes back to the subject since I really enjoy the way he depicts and narrates his videos generally and I think he can make a much better video on this subject.

[@bolo6062]

@@mwithz He has a hate-boner for RS3 and it's clear whenever he brings it up. My expectation were low and yet I was still disappointed.

[@mwithz]

@@bolo6062 I'm fine with the hate since some people really love certain eras of RuneScape and I honestly love seeing people have passion about it. I just wanted a solid analysis since I've sort of gotten use to Idyl making quality videos and I was disappointed with this one unfortunately...

[@Webmaster4531]

Why did you expect someone to play a game they hate all the way to zuk? Most people aren't like me. 😭 If I had a new computer I would totally make a takedown of RS3.

[@conartist831]

I play both on and off. both games are pretty fun and have similar feels in combat imo. i think the entry level is lower for bosses in Rs3. the ability to have multiple quick prayers and swapping between them at a single button press helps a lot. having to press an F key, clicking the prayer you want and then having to press another F key to go back and chug a potion or eat really hurts you when you start to panic and it feels pretty bad. Rs3 has a terrible MTX problem and is probably one of the biggest reasons i find myself going to play osrs a lot. That and Rune Lite Client is just super helpful and allows me to customize the way i want to see things in my game.

[@brianjohnson1290]

I often times think about going back to RS3. I think i could relearn everything with an open mind and it seems like it would be extremely fun. The one thing that keeps me from doing that and will always make me not want to play the game is the state of Microtransactions in the game. I can ignore a lot of things, but I can't ignore a greedy company just trying to make it on MTX.

[@Aeon_ic]

Ironman mode in RS3 is just that. MTX is effectively eliminated

[@ACanadianDude]

Now that Revolution++ is in RS3, i find the combat system to be completely fine. Except it's not balanced for PvP, so thats why the wilderness was removed. My issue these days is the tiered equipment system completely invalidates most mid game equipment. Your stat levels dont matter othet than to be able to equip high level equipment because the damage and accuracy math has changed dramatically. Void is useless because not only are its stats and set effect bad, it also can't be augmented. Proselyte's prayer bonus doesnt matter anymore, its armor values are as bad as not wearing any armor at all. There are so many weapons and unique equipment in RS that the tiered equipment system has just completely butchered. There is no more fun with getting a mid game upgrade. I think that going back to the equipment bonuses system as it was, and reducing/removing the P2W aspects of MTX, would help RS3 immensely. Theres so much power creep at the end game that even just getting Greater Ricochet costs 800mil for one ability. That is ridiculous. And thats only one small thing to check off your list before you can PvM effectively.

[@thatmanonthemoon]

is that fucking runescape midi Goodbye to a World at 24:00 gonna need the link baldman

[@TheGnarlyDude]

I WAS THINKING THAT TOO

[@geoffreyb1483]

it def is, perfect song for the topic

[@PaperFlare]

If nothing else, this proves that an uninspired, uncreative project lead can completely tank the product. RuneScape survived as long as it did because it rejected WoW's design philosophy. So many games copied WoW following its success, and predictably, players didn't want to play the cheap knockoff, they wanted to play the real deal. RuneScape stuck to its guns, and kept its unique, quirky combat system and saw success where others died in WoW's shadow. And what did Mark do? He jumped head first into the same trap so many others fell for: "If we copy WoW, we'll copy their player numbers and profits!" His lack of passion and understanding of what made RuneScape RuneScape meant that he was unable to see the potential of the system, potential that the OSRS team has unlocked. Yet, because OSRS is still technically an offshoot of RS3, it will always been seen as a nostalgic quirk, rather than the true game. Plus all of the players who quit rather than start their maxed characters over from the beginning. Nice work Mark.

[@Toy_ship]

Playing legacy combat mode is basically playing oldschool but with MTX 😂

[@Wierie_]

I swiped a few 99’s, hope I didn’t twist your panties

[@ginjaedgy49]

and even then you cant do alot of the endgame content in legacy mode. so it's worse

[@ioverslept.]

Except its a completely different game with over 15 years of different content??

[@TheSoundHound]

As someone who did stick around post-EoC, I would recommend giving rs3 another try. There's still plenty of relaxing afk you can do, there is some differences of course in navigating UI or setting up your combat beforehand, but when it comes to the combat itself, especially for grinding purposes, there are places that are afk similar to what you describe in this video. The new skills are actually really good, too.

[@nunyabiness181]

I was here back when this video was a calming retrospective.

[@ignasdaugela1780]

11:18 HOW DARE YOU! Dungeoneering was my favorite skill! The only reason I log into my RS3 account once a year is to do dungeoneering because that's the only good thing that is left in RS3.

[@MrandMrsQuack]

once a year must be real good if doesnt keep you around

[@SuperRookie117]

7:05 No way he did that XD

[@zacharybryant3865]

Oh no… SWG in the opener. Don’t make me jump back on the emu… no… I must resist…

[@skateruwu]

You cannot just declare yourself the President of MMOs, we elected Josh Strife Hayes! Edit: I just watched the new JSH video and I am sorry to doubt you Idyl spare me king

[@PaladinfffLeeroy]

JOSH FOR PRESIDENT

[@civilservant9528]

Josh is an egoistic jerk

[@brandon8667]

I remember my dad playing Star Wars galaxy. He had a pet monkey thing, wenting camping a bunch, and hung out at a bar and watched dancers & listen to music. He let me make a blue fish guy. I got to sit at a bar and watch a man play the space flute.

[@jackwolstenholme8213]

I feel like 2010-2012 was peak RS2.

[@mpg272727]

Honestly RS3 just after summoning but before EOC and MTX was pretty good and underrated. For some reason some seem to hate it mind, never really understood why. Other than people moaning about claws and torva which is odd as those same people later demanded the same be added to old school!

[@SkedgySky]

Nah. 2005 to 2007 was peak.

[@belstar1128]

i am not sure i do think they wee on the right track in 2011 undoing a lot of bad things from the previous years but 2010 was bad and 2012 too

[@sickrantorum693]

@@mpg272727 Yeah I don't understand the summoning hate either. It's the ideal companion skill to slayer.

[@CMXNZL]

Played through it all - IMO 05-07 were 100% the golden days of RS

[@Edzter]

I just want to point something out, because people really do not mention it enough. 2012 had no real "decline", just a bit of a stagnation, the game was getting a little stale, because none of the new content was that much more interesting. This is mostly hindsight 2020 considering the content in OSRS we get now. We were also in the age before optimization like we are now, people just kinda...played the game. But the main reason was PVP. That was the endgame, there were no raids, no real high end PVM, people just went to PVP a lot. And 2012 when eoc came out, was just in the timeline where removal of wildy and multiple iterations of BH still left it's marks there. PVP videos were the main driving points for all runescape content. The same was for early OSRS, before the birth of unique content creators like soup, and challange runs like swam man, quest man, tile man, or ironman as a whole gamemode. In rs2/rs3 those were too few and far between. The reason PVP is now a minor thing for OSRS is because there's so much non PVP content that's good, so much more PVM and raids, and PVP itself has had it's barrier to entry raised so high, we got the rest of the game that's just so much better than what rs2 was without needing PVP content anymore. Oh and one more note: legacy mode is not like the old combat, because it did not take into account all the monster and gear changes. It just made you not use a hotbar.

[@Trevorkahn101]

Omg the "Goodbye to a world" insert at the end of SWG hit me so hard as a massive Porter fan. Well played sir that's why your channel is incredible.

[@ccakaccakaccakacc]

god it brought me back to that stream he did all those years ago

[@TrKeRo]

Came to the comments just for this ❤

[@PunkDogCreations]

Don't use God's name in vain

[@PunkDogCreations]

​@@ccakaccakaccakacc don't use God's name in vain

[@TrKeRo]

​@@PunkDogCreationsAll religions are cults. Change my mind.

[@Delmworks]

2:33 the simplest mistake to make- going trend hopping when you already have a niche to yourself

[@frostyjake8034]

I still have the EOC Beta contract in my bank and sometimes I just look at it with spite

[@davidmaly6606]

I still have it too. I love eoc. I've tried osrs and I can't stand the combat. When I was a kid pre-eoc, I was f2p and mostly a skiller.

[@frostyjake8034]

@davidmaly6606 Jad was the best thing pre EOC had to offer and it's actually a joke to complete with EOC, the whole flare of old RuneScape was to equip your naked guy with cool crap and kill things that hurt bad, now it's stare at a bar for cooldowns until dead for pretty much anything. The uniqueness of equipment completely vanished until T80 gear came to be

[@sct77]

A lot of this made it sound like the same issue ESO has. There's massive problem with awkward animation cancelling that has to be done in every singe gcd and it scares new players away yet if the developers ever try to remove it, a huge amount of players will instantly quit. Some of the changes don't sound bad, but players are so used to the old combat's flaws they ended up being positives to them due to nostalgia or comfort.

[@TigerFangRS]

A bit of misinformation on the exact changes that happened on EOC drop, but yeah EOC on release was pretty fuckn trash. They have made sooo many changes to make RS3 Combat so much more rewarding now though, but yeah for the first few years of rs3, it was really really rough. Now the main issue is MTX and I think rs3 Combat is fine. Great Video though still.

[@Clawdragoons]

I stuck around after EoC, just, mostly skilling rather than doing combat since I was max combat anyway, until the MTX got so obnoxious that I quit. Honestly, if they hadn't started up all that MTX nonsense I might have given combat another shot eventually and I might be an ongoing RS3 player. The two things together are what really killed it for me.

[@originalgreatdouchebag2866]

nope its still broken dogshit weakness need to not have penalties and pray bug needs to fix protect prats are 100%

[@ArchonZach]

Wasn't star wars galaxys shut down because they were releasing swtor and didn't want to compete with it? Sorry if I'm wrong!

[@OrdinarySense]

to be fair to the Devs who thought EOC was the only way to push combat to greater heights at that time... Literally nobody played the game as a tick based grid simulator. On top of that, the OSRS Devs had nothing to do with that system being fully discovered and explored... the players did... because after like 3 months there was literally nothing else to do in OSRS Vanilla. FURTHERMORE, this new take on the old combat system only became popular and acknowledged by the Devs AFTER the community literally made clients that helped to understand and use the hidden features of the old system... basically modding the game and making the unique aspects of the combat system 100x easier to understand. It had nothing to do with Devs figuring out something the previous Devs missed.... the players had no new content for years and just started exploring the game more deeply than anyone ever had before. then they used what the community gave them and started to build content around it... it wasn't the other way around. I greatly disliked EOC and quit after it launched never to return as well... but i think its important to realize that OSRS as it stands now was not planned... in fact, it was pure luck. If a few very dedicated and selfless individuals did not no life super niche aspects of how the games code fundamentally worked... it would have died just like EOC. TLDR: Yes they should have been more careful and made changes slower instead of all at once... BUT OSRS the way it is now was only possible because after being left alone in a barren sandbox... a few actually metally insane individuals figured out every single detail of how that sandbox was put together and all of its possibilities. The OSRS Devs did not do that, the super auts squad did.

[@themosthighvaluemaninthega9048]

TLDR: Fuck EOC.

[@originalgreatdouchebag2866]

because people bot to hard lolololo there is more content in rs then the time the game has existed

[@trentsims]

1. What they should've done is just tweak the monster's weakness and resistance stats like they did in Old School to boost weapon/spell diversity. 2. Fix Blacksmithing and fill out gear gaps so each damage type has clear gear progression that makes sense. 3. Likely go ahead with the higher max health and health buffs on armor change that RS3 has, just perhaps tweaked to have slightly smaller numbers. This makes players less fragile in the early game since their base HP isn't 10. As well as makes higher level gear that much more impactful. 4.Then go ahead and give players a hot bar, but don't bother with new abilities. Just make it so they can put things like food, potions, prayers, special attacks, run toggle, spells, and equipment for quick switching on it. Right now, we need to use our mouse for most things, and since we need to click to move, it is very hard to stay mobile while interfacing with all of the different menus. Having all of these things on simple keybinds would've made player a lot faster, which would allow them to create more difficult content. 5. Finally, perhaps also tweak the Attack skill to interact more with Range and/or Magic. I just find it a bit odd Melee the only skill that splits accuracy and damage into two separate skills while Magic and Range do not. Also that Magic staffs require Attack to equip while range weapons do not. Maybe they could buff the damage output of stuff like Longbows and Comp bows, but make them require either Attack or Strength to use, making them more viable options, rather than just having them be worse than the faster Shortbows.

[@naturalistmind]

I lost my og account because someone reported me for botting but I never botted, I simply no lifed, for example, I also have the insane title in WoW

[@xRakanishu]

I started playing Runescape in September of 2001 and I can confirm that the EoC update was the end of my adventure for quite a long time 😮‍💨

[@giltdavig2589]

try it now

[@AmazedBunion]

i have never once heard anyone say the inferno is fun. it's way too long to be fun. the boss parts are fun but the rest is just a time waster

[@IntoxicatedPig]

It's fun imo and no I'm not trolling

[@myusher2]

people have got to stop crying about eoc. i created my current account in 2005 i have played through every stages of runescape since then and i can safely say the current combat is the best it has ever been. the pre eoc was ok at best now its much better it allows you to do the same and more. much deeper and thought of builds

[@eimantasbutkus5324]

Ok, so you liked the eoc, you are the minority, the numbers don't lie, it's not about some ppl needing to "stop crying", it was objectively a bad update.

[@BcuzIC4n]

Oh boy, another look back on a 12 year old update that has changed, enhanced, and dare I say it, evolved considerably since it's failed release into a solid, complex, enjoyable system, I'm sure THIS video will be the one to touch on the later success of the system. Right? Right?

[@ACertainGuy0]

Surely people will stop riding the "EOC Bad" Bandwagon and now take the time to form their own opinions with calm, rational thinkin-........Does anyone hear cannons off in the distance? sounds like its coming from Falador. I wonder why?

[@GRIMHOOD99]

As someone who played RS3 from 2017-2023 yeah it got better but it is still one of the worst combat systems I have seen in an mmo after 2010s.

[@BcuzIC4n]

@@GRIMHOOD99 Sure, I'll give you that, but the OSRS "EOC bad" circlejerk refuses to acknowledge that the game has any redeemable qualities and constantly falls back on "this one update half the game's life ago was bad and now everything your game has and will ever do is also bad" and it's frustrating. I grantee the OSRS community habit of shitting on RS3 plays no small part in the lack of playerbase growth.

[@deathkingboss]

@@BcuzIC4n i mean i stil got a maxed rs3 account (did necro on release) and when i boot up the game i always ask myself the same question, why play runescape when wow has a better combat and osrs is the game i grew up with.

[@koldolmen5837]

Found the RS3 nerd

[@MattSinz]

The combat upgrade didn't kill galaxies, it was all the NGE.

[@Nick-ij5nt]

A lot of people still refuse to give OSRS a chance because of the combat and the graphics. EOC only failed because it replaced what everyone already liked. If RS1 and RS2 didn't exist and RS3 was released as it was I bet it would've been received pretty positively. I genuinely believe that if someone created a game like OSRS but with modern graphics and combat then it would be the biggest mmo ever made.

[@locani5941]

I know this is about MMORPG games but as someone with a more FPS backround in form of favorite video games, this reminds me of the turn from Overwatch 1 to Overwatch 2. Most people started leaving towards the end of the honeymoon stage of it because of how it stopped feeling like Overwatch. They took what it was and completely removed it leading to a severe lack of players . It's sad to see when games that had been big players or just peoples comfort/favorite games get destroyed by a fault of people that take over that don't understand what made a game special before working on it.

[@GamersWeekend]

Evolution of combat all the way, never going back. Although old RuneScape was fun, EOC is such a fun and engaging combat system, especially with the way it plays with Weapon Specs and adrenaline. It feels so much more in depth and rewarding as a player than original ever felt to me growing up with it.

[@carney626]

Oh man, seeing the old, old, old, Runescape takes me back to the old days. RIP Rodent13, I'm sorry for forgetting your password.

[@4eagleslax]

Dungeoneering was peak runescape

[@beto3k]

Me when I lie.

[@AIRoasteri]

it was bad, man. it was like avoiding the real content and becoming into a specific place. not good imo

[@caughtnappin_675]

it was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I saw i needed level 75 for plague’s end quest, did it til like level 55 and fucking HATED it. never looked back lmao

[@zataritamods7499]

Using porter robinson's "goodbye to a world" was awesome c: One of my favorite songs of all time. The whole worlds album is incredible IIRC that's actually what the worlds album was about. Video game worlds that people used to be so attached to dying

[@mpg272727]

I don't think it was entirely the EOC that killed RS3, but also MTX. But I do feel that EOC was hated because most people liked Runescapes combat for how simple it was. That's why many played it and many now play old school. They liked the click and wait, it was different and unique to Runescape at that point. It allowed people to just relax, it was chilled. You could stick up another tab and watch KZbin or chat to friends while playing. If people wanted something more advanced and sophisticated with abilities and things that demanded your attention and such they would have played world of warcraft.

[@thatsnotbuble]

Honestly I think there’s a lot behind the scenes people don’t see. Increasing competition from other MMO’s, increasing business costs, increasing average player age, decreasing attention spans, etc. Players flock to newer games, older players don’t want change, newer players do want change, it’s hard.

[@JELKEK]

I couldn’t fucking believe it when they added EoC. I had just gotten 99 strength after 2 months of only farming bandits, started Korasi sword PKing and my reward was a ruined combat system. I’m still fucking mad about it!

[@vyvanse70mg]

bro thank you for making this video. star wars galaxies has been my favorite game next to OSRS for the past 10 years

[@ariesthagemini6526]

Rs3 is not ugly and eoc has turned into something truly unique. What holds it back now is mtx and cosmetics. Rs3 arguably has the better end game and graphics may not be important but rs3 is fucking beautiful idc

[@mehiskortel6435]

Rs3's combat is still massively flawed. The tick system isnt meant for abilities and flashy dashes. Necromancy shows that the 3 old combat styles are filled with useless fluff. The amount of dead content in general is unrivaled. And to top it all off the graphics and art style is awful, with the much required player model update getting axed. No wonder new players don't stick around.

[@RyuLightorb]

@@mehiskortel6435 i mean both osrs and rs3 are flawed games thats the charm

[@NanosoftRussia]

I have seen many areas and they ruined quite a lot by replacing RS2 HD graphics into bland Wow-esque ugly mess

[@mehiskortel6435]

@@NanosoftRussia Exactly. The art style is all over the place and recent areas already look so dated. Runescape used to have a very distinct look to it, especially in hd days. This is another reason why osrs is so played so much more.

[@Failedwizard1]

@@mehiskortel6435 Someone clearly wasn't bullied for playing a game that looked like RuneScape when they were a kid.

[@onechippyboi]

I'm sure this has been said 1000 times before, but what the EOC update should have been was adding a hotbar for consumable items, magic, prayers and weapon special. For everyone who was complaining about combat, the biggest problem that they had was being required to furiously interface swap all the time and having to click inventory items which felt clunky back then and still feels clunky by todays standard. The second biggest problem was that all actions stop your own aggro requiring you to click the target again. Just make it so that combat is always continuous with some kind of key or button to cancel it. This means you would be able to even input movement commands and your character would remain facing the enemy and would attack at the next possible tick instead of needing to re-target or auto retaliate once you get hit again. These are the only two changes they needed to make to both satisfy the complaints and not alienate everyone from the game, no other changes necessary, problem solved. This change could be added to OSRS today and I know everyone would say the game is ruined because OSRS players want their game to remain how it is until they die, but it actually changes very little besides removing the need to interface swap all the time and constant retargeting. I am not stupid though, I know that the skill of all the end game content is now balanced around these two things and that the game would become way easier as a result; but is that change in difficulty a result of nerfs and buffs, or is it just removing the clunkiness of game design that was already outdated 20 years ago? As a side note, it feels like OSRS is only alive because of Runelite. Imagine playing an MMORPG where 95% of the dedicated playerbase launches the game in a third party client with 100's of plugins but everyone loses their mind over a hotbar. It's so absurd to me that everyone will roast you over the coals for suggesting quality of life changes to the game but then boot the game up with 20 active third-party QoL plugins. If plugins and third party clients were banned the playerbase would fall off a cliff just as bad as the EOC, let that sink in.

[@MaikDreijer]

I still play RS3 and I like the combat way more than just click and flick like OSRS. Not hating on OSRS by any means but me personally I prefer RS3 combat. Y'all PVMers over there don't get mad at me cause you OSRS players have done some CRAZY shit aswell.

[@MaikDreijer]

I just realised 20% of the RS3 player base has 200M all, we might be just biased

[@ManeShores]

I think the sad thing is, osrs is not just click and flick. There is so much nuance in it's endgame content, from positioning, click accuracy, resource management and game knowledge surrounding equipment, which is based off a giant list of progression in quests and other content. OSRS endgame pve (stopped calling it pvm because pve is industry standard language, pvm is for people who never left Runescape) is fundamentally, a more complicated experience that takes a higher skill ceiling in order to fully enjoy. I play Rs3, and enjoy the PVE content, but the abilities themselves don't provide a nuanced approach to combat... "this is the best rotation for 2h staff" and if you go outside of that, you are wasting damage and making it harder for yourself. In OSRS, that nuance exists in the form of managing positioning and prayers, on top of game knowledge surrounding the numerous game mechanics for EACH specific boss. In Rs3, it was very easy to learn Telos, which was a little harder to me due to the power creep. And to me, that was the hardest piece of content I could find. I also found Zammy solo and Glacor to be difficult, but once learned, very easy to manage and grind out. In OSRS, every single raid, every single Inferno run, took me being at my best every single time. I wasn't just learning a thing that would become easy once I had done it fourty times, I still die after 1k raids due to many factors. OSRS endgame PVE compared to RS3, is a massive step above and has more progression tied to it, faster clicking accuracy, much more on the spot thinking required, it's a harder experience with more depth and because of that, more people striving to get better at it. And once you start getting better at OSRS PVE, it provides you with the mechanics/game knowledge required to start getting into PVP... which ends up taking much more of your time once you start enjoying it.

[@RyuLightorb]

@@ManeShores you put it well which is why i fucking had osrs pve with a fucking passion lol.

[@jakeblabbers]

I honestly loved the simplicity of RSC combat. I dealt with RS2. Then when they updated the combat system for combat evolved I just couldn't deal lol.

[@MaikDreijer]

@@ManeShores well theres optimized rotations cause people have been experimenting cause bored in PVM though lol, you dont have to use the rotations. Make your own. It's hella fjn

[@TrampyPulsar]

SWG combat queue system was great for roleplaying, having a shootout in the streets of a player built city between a bounty hunter and a rebel and both players slinging insults at each other because they didn't have to mash 1 2 3 1 2 3, itwas very immersive

[@jfkdidntlos791]

Rs3 = How to kill an mmorpg in one day OSRS = How to kill an mmorpg over several days

[@ScarryHarry93]

I remember it being so apocalyptic, that my biggest worry and thought was that I wouldn't be able to play Runescape again, forever. I tried EoC, but even on the legacy combat, it just ended up feeling SO different, with the summoning and....tickering?...skills and generally bad updates coming out. If they didn't come out with OSRS as it was, make great updates for it, and keep it going, I would have never have gotten my first actual fire cape, which I just did this week :)

[@OhRisk_LIVE]

I will live and die by this hill Dungeoneering wasn't bad, it should be added to osrs

[@e.selmanii7044]

Agreed, even the ex Jmod, Mod Reach really wanted it in OS.

[@QT-Sei]

Dungeoneering as an activity, yes. As a skill, not interested.

[@originalgreatdouchebag2866]

no its still trash with some staidly op bosses some that can't lose unless they literally let you win

[@GoodnessandTruth]

It seems like the problems could have been totally predictable. Changing core mechanics of a game like that is akin to the American government saying we no longer were going to use the dollar as currency, and instead we will use Pokemon dollars that can only be traded through pokemon, and can only be earned through winning Pokemon battles. Well suddenly a whole new group of people are rich and powerful whereas the ones who dedicated their whole life to earning dollars and have never played Pokemon before are worth nothing.

[@omanlady123456]

making pray flicking and tick timing nearly manditory is not good gameplay it gets tedious even when your droned out doing it. The current system extremely flawed, but just not quite enough to kill it. The 2 things i want fixed int he game are making combat more engaging without having to constantly swap gear, and tick pray flick/eat .and makig skilling actually useful, since right now essentially every skill is useless other than just getting a number for a quest you want to unlock a reard from. Os needs some quality lovin

[@justinb8297]

It's what makes OSRS fun and unique, gear switching and timing makes it feel like a rhythm game and that's what people love about the combat. I love gear switching and love getting faster and faster at it, it's so addicting!!!

[@HarithBK]

i see playing around the OSRS tick rate in the same light as all the movement tech people employ in CS2 and abuse of jank in Dota 2. you take a simple game coded in a complex or limited way that leaves to poor edge cases that then abused by the player base and then added to the core gameplay loop. it is incestus and leads to the game becoming too niche and needlessly complex. it is overall less the than ideal when used too much and looped around. overall OSRS is really close to the edge of what is okay here in part simply due to how much grinding there is in the game means they can spread out all these tricks you are meant to learn before going off the deep end and earn your inferno cape.

[@UrScrewedProductions]

changing gear, moving to dodge, and pray switching is what makes the combat so fun lol. At its core osrs is a rhythm game. find the rhythm for the skill or boss youre doing.

[@justinb8297]

I don't care for the endgame content revolving around unforgiving tick perfect prayer flicking though, kind of makes the game extremely stressful and hopefully one day gear is strong enough to not have to prayer flick anymore. I remember in pre eoc when they actually fixed that so u couldn't prayer flick anymore to save prayer. They should fix it in OSRS too, it's stupid to leave an infinite prayer bug in the game.

[@omanlady123456]

@@justinb8297 yeaht he concept is unique sure, it doesnt feel good though. what actual % of players are doing the endgame content consistently? Id say it causes a lot of burn out. I dont mean to remove i mean they shoudl make it feel better.