Why Barliman Butterbur was REMOVED from “The Fellowship of the Ring”…

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Welcome to Ep. 6 of Movies vs. Manuscripts, where we are analyzing the scene at the Prancing Pony in Bree! An more specifically, how Peter Jackson cut out Barliman Butterbur’s near fatal mistake…
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Timestamps:
0:00 The Bumbling Fool...
1:32 Movie Recap
4:24 Shameless Plug! Join the Discord!
4:44 Plot Changes
10:59 Analysis
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Sources:
"The Fellowship of the Ring," directed by Peter Jackson, New Line Cinema, 2001.
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#tolkien #tolkienlore #lordoftherings #lotr #peterjackson #newlinecinema #warnerbros #jrrtolkien #tombombadil #thefellowhsipofthering #fellowshipofthering

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[@simonkoster]

The gloomy and somewhat scary vibe in the Prancing Pony is another example of the influence of Bakshi's version.

[@circedelune]

Yes. In fact, the inn was so friendly and welcoming that the hobbits let down their guard. Pippin did not reveal Frodo’s name. He was simply telling about Bilbo’s birthday party. Frodo became aware that it might be dangerous for some to hear how Bilbo disappeared at the end and decided to try and distract everyone’s attention. Pippin had not actually said anything revealing, and may or may not have eventually related the part about Bilbo vanishing. The movies made Pippin an idiot, which makes me sad.

[@Propane_Acccessories]

@@circedeluneIt needed the comic relief. Thought it worked well. Plus he redeemed himself later with courageous acts, not to mention he looked into a palantir and had the resolved to not give up any information to Sauron

[@c.j.nyssen6987]

You could argue that Gandalf is ultimately to blame for trusting Butterbur with such an important message when he is very much aware of how busy and forgetful Barliman is. You could also make a very strong argument that Providence (or whatever you want to name it) ensured the Hobbits would end up with the blades of Westerness found in the Barrowdowns. The Hobbits would have taken the more traveled route to Rivendell via the East-West Road if they had not been under pursuit.

[@AnOldeSpartan]

@c.j.nyssen6987. I have to agree with this sentiment. It's very heavily, implied, in the book, that the Will of Eru Illuvitar is at work in all these events. If we accept this premise, then all things that happen, can only happen the way they do. From the daggers of the Westernesse, to Merry and Pippin getting caught by the orcs. Thus, leading to the march of the Ents. Among many, many other events that unfold just due to this one thing. The death of Gandalf, Boromir trying to take the ring. The list goes on and on. All of these events, and more, can ONLY happen the way the do, to enable 4 important characters to be, where they need to be, at the right time. Merry and his dagger at the fields of Pelennor, with Eowyn. There to defeat the Witch King of Angmar. A potentially, very real and dangerous threat. Even after the defeat of Sauron. The other two, and most importantly, are obviously Frodo and Gollum. Frodo being the only one, who can get the ring to the summit of Mount Doom. Gollum needed to destroy the ring by the only way possible. Treachery and punishment or maybe karma. The ring could not be destroyed, by choice, by ANYONE. Events could never have played out any other way, down to the finest detail, and still finish with the rings destruction. This was just one, of the ultimate beautys' of Tolkiens' writing and world building.

[@BigKnecht]

Yeah also why is everyone expecting the guy to know that sending this mundane letter to some random hobbit he never heard of is paramount to life, death and the destiny of middle earth? Just give it to the post man yourself Gandalf ffs

[@samwisegamgee6532]

Once and for all. First level. Pippin is the one who manipulated Grishnak and allow Merry and him to escape the orcs alive after the attack of the Rohirrim. Therefore without him, the Ent would not have awaken, and Saruman would have won the battle for Rohan. Second level. If Pippin haven’t thrown a stone in a hole in Moria, the Balrog wouldn’t have risen and Gandalf would have stayed the grey. If pippin haven’t looked into the palantir, he would not have been taken to Minas Titith and Denethor would have made much more damage.

[@keithtorgersen9664]

"There a few things that happen that that are very important to story"...NAMELY, THE INTRODUCTION OF OUR BELOVED BILL THE PONY.

[@gmansard641]

And, toward the end of the story, Bill was waiting in Bree when Sam returned.

[@Werbenmanjenson]

The 10th member of the Fellowship, representing the race of horses.

[@knghtbrd]

Barleyman did not fail to guard the hobbits' room really-or rather, Aragorn at least knew that Barleyman's efforts would not be enough to stop the Nazgul who certainly knew where the ring was, who carried it, and they will have learned (from Merry, from Bill, or from someone else) where the hobbits' rooms were. No watch by a few men and maybe some hobbits would keep the Nine away at this point, so Barleyman's efforts were at best the appearance of precaution, even if he thought maybe otherwise. Essentially, he cannot "fail" at something he was never able, nor meant to "succeed" at. Aragorn's plan, we'll learn next time, was a bit of deception and stealth.

[@circedelune]

The Nazgul didn’t actually come to the inn at all. That was done by men, probably including Bill Ferny and the gatekeeper, Harry Goatleaf.

[@rikk319]

Barliman, not Barleyman.

[@beefabob]

I am loving this series of videos and once they come to a conclusion it is my intention to binge watch the entire thing.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Thank you! Glad you’re enjoying them. 👏🏼

[@sbeaber]

Ah. But if the letter was delivered they would have never crossed paths with Tom Bombadil.

[@Niko-hi5my]

1 video per scene. That's entertainment for years! Yay!

[@factorfantasyweekly]

And then it’s onto the hobbit! 💀

[@Son-of-Gondor]

Very nice. I enjoyed that.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

🫡

[@leehallam9365]

A lot of the cuts for time are justified as they are connected to other scenes cut elsewhere, or they are background characters. Butterbur actually made a really good character in BBC radio adaptation, but part of his role in the books is telling them what to expect in The Shire on the way back, which of course is completely cut. He sort of bookends the main part of the journey. Bree being the furthest adventure any respectable Hobbit might go on.

[@Bethos1247-Arne]

"what really happened at that night in Bree". This made me reflect about the nature of a story. Is a story about what really happened? Or is it about the version of the storyteller?

[@johannes5623]

Awesome Video

[@robinkockovski2413]

Love this, watch the trilogy Every year but never read the books so Im learning so so much from this series, commenting and liking every video to help out and hopefully going all the way through all movies/ books

[@chrisschmid5212]

Listening to the unabridged audio book is my favorite way to enjoy middle earth. The trilogy is great too, but everything seems so sped up

[@tomardans4258]

The adapters always think they know better than Tolkien

[@papalaz4444244]

because if they put in every scene from the book, they wouldn't have arrived at rivendell after 4 hours

[@barbarossarotbart]

In my opinion all of the changes made for this scene are mistakes.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

I would have loved to see all of what Tolkien wrote in these scenes play out. I love this whole segment of his book. But sadly it would’ve added a lot to the films and as we know, they’re already super long 😂

[@barbarossarotbart]

@@factorfantasyweekly The Bakshi version did a great job adapting this chapter.

[@TexasTimeLord]

You have to remember that they could not include everything from the book for runtime reasons and also that it had to make sense for people who did not read the books and also not be boring. The first book and the third had pages and pages of aimless wanderings in forests and later into Mordor which would have bored audiences.

[@circedelune]

I understand the need for some changes and omissions. A lot of things in the book would be impossible to convey in a movie. I accept the absence of the Old Forest(though I wish they had figured out a way to include Merry’s barrow blade) and substituting Arwen for Glorfindel. But some changes were completely unnecessary, imo. I do really like the movies, but hate some of the changes. I could have done without making Pippin a bumbling idiot. I could most certainly have done without a lot that happens later that I won’t go into right now.

[@user-gt7xs1fc6g]

You are completely wrong about Tolkien here and show a great deal of hubris to think that you understzand Tolkien better than 70 years of critical writing on the Ring.

[@unperson5713]

Bob is human, Nob is a hobbit.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

Good point! I’m not sure if it ever specifies in the book, and many sources online refer to Bob and Nob as both hobbits. But considering bob is in charge of the stable and the horses/ponies, it would make sense if he’s human. Thanks for pointing this out!

[@unperson5713]

​@@factorfantasyweekly I am 95% certain it is strongly implied Bob is human and Nob the hobbit is retained by Butterbur to interact with hobbit clients. This sounds like a video subject. If many people mistakenly claim Bob was also a hobbit, you could be the definitive source.

[@InTheDarknessWhereIDwell]

Original

[@ZDiddy7777]

The 'Prancing Pony' is obviously a gay bar, right? NOBODY names a bar like that, unless they wanna quietly signal those interested in riding..... the 'Buckleberry Fairy'.... I mean its not even hidden, Bob the nob? C'MON!!!

[@nikolapavlovicsova5010]

Bad comparison.

[@Strideo1]

Explain.

[@jachyra9]

Team Jackson's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is possibly the worst literary adaptation ever made. It's great cinema. But it has no respect for or understanding of Tolkien's novel.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

I’m still undecided on if a true recreation of Tolkien’s writings (basically word for word) could make a viable film series. It’s just the difficult of adapting to a different format. Maybe one day someone will try it, but probably not for another 20 years.

[@jachyra9]

@@factorfantasyweekly - Word-for-word isn't realistic, and why would anyone want that. All that's necessary is understanding the work and remaining true to it: What is the author saying with the work? Is the author saying that good must sustain its goodness when it fights evil( Tolkien )... or can good be as evil as it wants to be when it fights evil( Jackson ).

[@stoneagepig3768]

Worse than the hobbit?

[@jachyra9]

@@stoneagepig3768 - Yes.

[@gmansard641]

I tend to agree. Individual scenes csn be great, such as when Gollum and Smeagol are arguing, but overall I found the films lacking.

[@stoneagepig3768]

Need to acknowledge that if the movies followed the book exactly, each one would have been about 6hrs long. Got to view movies based on literature the same as cover versions of music I think. There are a few things in this series that bug me, but compared to the disgrace that was made of the hobbit I can happily live with the changes in TLOTR movies

[@jachyra9]

"Need to acknowledge that if the movies followed the book exactly, each one would have been about 6hrs long." By what metric are you arriving at this exact number? It would be entire possible to follow the book exactly and have each film be the same length as Jackson's films. How time allocation is handled on screen is a lot more important than it is on the page. And Peter Jackson's handling of it is actually leverage against the argument that "following the books exactly" would result in longer screen time. For example: In the theatrical cut of The Fellowship of the Ring( an important distinction here from the much longer extended cut of the same film ), it’s forty-eight seconds from the moment the Watcher attacks Frodo until he’s rescued, and a total of seventy-two seconds from the initial attack until the Watcher destroys the door. Also, in the Chamber of Mazarbul sequence, it’s well over three minutes from the moment the cave troll enters the fight until it finally keels over dead. This is unconscionable: you could literally read the entire scene aloud from the book in less time. And even before the Fellowship enters Moria proper, Gandalf tells the group( and the audience ) that it’s a four day journey to the other side. Yet Jackson, despite allotting over seven minutes prior to the first Orc attack, makes it seem as though the Fellowship made it through in a matter of a few hours, not days. And how about Jackson’s giving a bucket of steroids to the moment the Fellowship have to cross a span of about seven feet in the book? I saw someone get up and leave the theater, presumably to use the bathroom, and return before the Fellowship had fully negotiated that epic special effects/action scene entirely.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

@@jachyra9 These scenes are entertaining while Tolkien's droning on and on about stuff a reader like me finds boring would be horrid for screen adaptation. The man was in need for an editor.

[@jachyra9]

@@majungasaurusaaaa - You have no idea what you're saying.

[@micklumsden3956]

⁠”And I suppose you think you’re the one to do it”