Why Belos Can't Be Redeemed | The Owl House

[@ArtoriasB]

Minus the magic, what makes Belos so uncomfortable is that he is... pretty realistic. A character who grew up in a society of hate and violence against those who were "Other" who then continued to perpetuate that hate and violence when he grew up.

[@timrosswood4259]

He is a dark reminder of our past, but also our present.

[@ilsmawandfarm1767]

A great thing that the Owl House does is show the difference between Phillip and his brother, Caleb. They were both raised in a hateful society. Upon entering the boiling isles, Caleb begins to doubt and eventually change his beliefs, while Phillip doubles down on his hatred for witches. This shows that one can change their viewpoint no matter their upbringing, while at the same time giving Bellos real character motivation instead of allowing him to fall into the cartoon stereotype of "evil just for the sake of evil" or "just wants power".

[@guillermorodriguezdomingue274]

​@@ilsmawandfarm1767Reminds me of Nimona.

[@Kebin13]

​@@ilsmawandfarm1767 the fck you on about, belos IS a cartoon steriotype of evil character, stop pretending he isnt, steriotypes arent bad for fcks sake.

[@TherealRNOwwfpooh]

@@ilsmawandfarm1767 Well, to be truthful, Phillip Wittebane/Emperor Belos IS a witch-hunting facist from the 16th Century, who staunchly believes what he's doing IS for the supposed good of humanity (as in, ridding the world of the magic from the Boiling Isles by committing mass genocide against the entirety of witch & demon kind through the sygils that would rob all coven-branded witches and demons of not just their magical abilities, but their very lifeforce), not realizing that the world has very much changed since the Connecticutt Witch Trials (which actually predated the Salem Witch Trials in real-life, even if the latter's much more well-known culturally), so much so that we humans are drawn to the worlds of magic & witchcraft not for the hateful, bigoted reasons the brothers Wittebane found themselves on the Boiling Isles, but because we're fascinated by the otherworldly. That's not to say people like Phillip Wittebane/Emperor Belos remain firmly in the realm of fiction, however, because real-world bigotry predicated on facist ideology still exists, even in our so-called civilized modern societies through the oppression of marginalized groups and the repeated rise of extremist radicals on either side of the political spectrum.

[@MJdoesstuff404]

Belos is one of the best villains in any cartoon ever (my opinion). He is intimidating, cunning, smart and cruel. The voice acting and his design only boost those aspects of his character. He is evil but that stems from his own shortcomings instead of the world. The world around Belos may have influenced his innate evil thoughts but it was his choice to not open his eyes to the reality around him. His brother did and because his brother grew as a person Belos murdered him. Belos cannot stand that others are better then him.

[@SebastienGendron-uk4po]

Agreed, even a regular witch hunter would never go to the extreme lengths he did, they would have gathered reinforcements the moment they went back to the human realm and start a crusade. Philip not only used magic but mastered it to the point where he created technology to harness it into a mechanical staff (evil or not Philip is a genius for surviving this long) and went from a preacher conman to a full-blown emperor (that's impressive) all to devastate a realm that already worships him (as he put ''the plan gone on longer than he would have liked). Luz could never learn what to perform (or be too afraid to) the type of magic he learned throughout the centuries.

[@timrosswood4259]

I don't think Philip killed his brother because "he can't stand that others are better than him" since he clearly sees himself above others. I think Philip is just someone who is highly devoted to a cause and he murdered Caleb because him falling in love was an obstacle to their mission, but Caleb wouldn't listen to his brother who was furious at him for abandoning their mission, teachings and his only family for a Devil's acolyte. That's what makes Philip evil, he prioritizes his worldview and misdion over the lives of other people, even his own brother's. All because Philip wants to prove he's a hero, so he won't go to hell.

[@i_am_supernowa]

I agree but he's far from Bill or Ozai

[@Aoryen]

@@i_am_supernowa and even further from azula her descent into madness was genuinely terrifying cold and calculating yet jumpy and insane

[@Supasmartguy]

​@@i_am_supernowaBill was indeed a better Villain than Belos, but Ozai was definitely not. He was the single most poorly written villain I have ever seen, and caused an otherwise amazing show to fall apart at the end.

[@Imtrashbutimfree]

To think Belos spent all those years surrounded by witches and demons, heard the pained cries of the palismans he's absorbed, and had every grimmwalker version of Caleb betray him and yet he still died denying the truth, believing himself to be the hero. I wish I believed in myself that much.

[@sonic8005]

It's good to be confident every now and again, just... not at the expense of being capable of recognizing the full consequences and implications of your own actions. It's good to be capable of recognizing when you can be right or wrong at a given time. Or, TL;DR it's complicated, be who you are, it's okay to have doubts at times.

[@applepieexplosion4030]

Exactly. what makes belos scarry is he had every opportunity and every reason to be good but didn't at every step

[@Takejiro24]

Mood on everything, I- 😭☠️ (Not to his insane extent though)

[@Awsomeboi159]

how can he lie that much to himself i can't lie to myself that much

[@jonbilgutay2]

You mean to a toxic and self destructive degree?

[@johnvinals7423]

I do love how Luz Noceda as a name can be translated as both “Light, do not give in” and as “Strange, nutty airhead”.

[@SeBa-xb3jn]

And they both fit.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@theautumnwind8437 No ceda.

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

@@theautumnwind8437 It's both. The word by itself means "field of nut trees" but separated out into its parts (No ceda) means "do not yield."

[@enderknight1442]

And somehow, both embody Luz to a T.

[@evanbao93]

The irony of Belos' backstory is as a child that grew up in society of hate and lost his brother is that this backstory would have been the key to redeeming himself... if he choose to open himself up. But that would mean admitting he was weak and not superior. Which he cannot show himself as an actual weak, insecure child. He has to be the older brother. The head of something. He has to be on top. It's quite telling how even when he assume the form of a weeping child, he wears a mask that covers his eyes. You can't see the eyes at all. And judging from fan art that remove the mask, it's clear as to why. A kid Philip Wittebane with no mask and actual human eyes is a pitiful thing that you want to help. You feel sorry for it. He looks no different from the Collector at his most vulnerable. It would be the most effective of drawing sympathy, yet he chooses an emotionless mask to hide because he wants to be visually in control of the situation. He refuses to remove that mask, and it now became his face in the real world, fused to his head. And by hiding himself from the real world, Belos doesn't understand Luz. The audience has already pieced together on what makes Luz and Belos so similar. Understand why they are foils and how they reflect each other if they had made different choices. But Belos only saw one connection: They're human. That's all he knows and cares about Luz. That's what he chooses to focus on and not the things that he actually shares in common with her. And because of that, everything that makes Belos human is absent. His backstory, his insecurities, even his human name... All absent in the final episode because he gave nothing to Luz about himself. And that ironically rendered his lies ineffective and damned him to die unanswered (personally, I prefer Belos to just melt away and choke on his own mud than be stomped upon by Eda, King, and Raine. A villain of this kind dying by his own hand with no one else to blame or hate is more fitting).

[@Alex_schalkwijk]

My man wrote a whole story ❤ And also agreed

[@idlescree]

" But Belos only saw one connection: They're human. That's all he knows and cares about Luz. That's what he chooses to focus on and not the things that he actually shares in common with her. And because of that, everything that makes Belos human is absent. " OOOOOH THIS IS SUCH A GREAT WAY TO ARTICULATE THAT, gave me chills.

[@evanbao93]

@@anonamuse8210 It's easy to know when Belos is lying and when he's telling the truth. Whenever he talks about the Human Realm or humans in general, there's a sense of sincerity to his words. Given how many times he spared Luz in their confrontations, it's evident that Belos prefers Luz to be alive. Oh, he'll try to kill her if she continues to disagree, but he will back down if he thinks he could change her mind. Belos needs human affection and approval. He doesn't care what other characteristics they have. As long as they are human, he wants their approval of his ways. He wants at someone in the Human Realm to agree with him to vindicate his absurd long stay in the Demon Realm. A bigot who is completely alone and surrounded by people he hates is gonna go mad from isolation. That's why he took interest into Luz. He finally has a human to answer his questions: Was it all worth it? Is he the hero of humanity? And Luz simply stares him in silence. No answer. Nothing. Humanity doesn't respond and Belos finds himself alone in the place he hated. Back in the Hell he created. He needs Luz. He needs a human to talk to. To preach over. To say yes to everything he has done. He needs an answer. An answer he wants to hear. And the Heavens remain silent.

[@gooeydude574]

Yea, Belos never grew up

[@cd47art86]

I think its very fitting for eda, raine and king to stomp on him, since he caused so much hurt to witches and demons, especially these three, but theyre also representing the rest of the people in the isles who were affected by him. Catharsis and what not And i dont think he would die without blaming anyone. He's too far in to recognize that its his fault

[@Turai12]

I love that in the final episode, most of Luz's magic is shadow based while Philip's shines with light. It feels like a good 'don't judge a book by its cover.'

[@idlescree]

Luz's motif is that of a *blacklight* which makes hidden brights SHINE!!! Its so cool!!!!

[@LittleHobbit13]

@@idlescree Likewise, Belos' corrupted use of the Titan results in a light that is shaded as a sickly green color usually used to indict "false light" (ie. false truths, in this case).

[@aerindinescarro47]

@@idlescreeWith belos’ name, it’s also something used in a forge to waft air into a fire So he literally puffs hot air.

[@zainahbutterfly]

It’s also a juxtaposition to Luz’s name which means ‘light’.

[@colerodgers3285]

@@idlescree i agree with you if you have not seen One piece you should it gives the same idea

[@santiagobarreraruiz7280]

Honestly my favorite "visual" representation of belos's over all theme in the show is when he is clinging on luz's leg and saying "We're human we are better than this" while looking like a pile of bones a rotten skin, like no, he is no longer "human" he isnt even a witch he is just a monster

[@idlescree]

it was SUCH a powerful moment, loved the visual so much.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

And the fact that she doesn't even say anything back. She just lets him ramble without anyone left that'll fall for his weak manipulation tactics.

[@timrosswood4259]

I personally love how a lot of Philip's lines sound like typical lines of a heroic character. I could see the line "we're human, we're better than this" be said by a protagonist in another show. Further examplifying how he tries to convince Luz that he's the hero and that she should join his side, and also how delusional he is.

[@garrettjackson1451]

@@timrosswood4259true he’s also incredibly out of touch with the modern day Earth

[@CrowTR0bot]

@@garrettjackson1451 One of my few problems with Season 3 is that we didn't get to see Belos react to how the world changed without him. I would have loved to see him react to our world full of "sin" and desire to destroy it once he's purged the demon realm.

[@morhido]

3:52 "the owl house doesn't have redemption arcs" THANK YOU FOR THIS!! I've never been able to articulate this but you just described it perfectly!! Lilith, amity, and hunter's arcs were never about becoming better people as much as they were about breaking out from their environments. Amity was never a bad person, she was a highschool bully with abusive parents. Hunter was never a fascist, he was just a teenager in a cult. It's such a great contrast to how philip ignored his own awakening and chose to let his environment continue to shape him. Would he have chosen redemption, maybe he would have actually learnt that God doesn't like it when you _stab your brother to death because of religious differences, you bloody psycho._

[@sunphoenix1231]

I think a fundamental difference between Philip and the rest of the children is, well, that they're children. Breaking free as a child is a lot easier than doing it as an adult. Philip also has had centuries to become entrenched in his own beliefs. Phillip, even to the end, refused to even deal with Caleb. Though I think the only character that needed an actual redemption was Lilith because of all the stuff she did to Eda. I felt that things were too neat there for so much damage.

[@NoirRaven]

Eh, 300 years ago, they were definitely following the old testament where yes, God does approve of killing one's siblings if they stray from "his light." The rest of your post holds up though.

[@dylansharp8471]

"Lilith, amity, and hunter's arcs were never about becoming better people as much as they were about breaking out from their environments" Can't they be both?

[@morhido]

@@dylansharp8471 oh no, it's definitely both. I just meant that the emphasis was more on breaking from the abuse in order to _become_ better people, rather than just becoming better on their own. That was poor phrasing on my part, my apologies

[@timrosswood4259]

Not really a cult since Belos' religion is the mainstream religion on the boiling isles.

[@DragonGoddess18]

Belos doing what he did reminds of what Palpatine once said: "Good and evil is just a point of view" Belos genuinely thought he was good. And Papa Titan said that Belos was more focused on wanting to be the hero of his own delusion. Both Luz and the audience knows that Belos is bad but being the stubborn overgrown man-child that he is, he refuses to open up his mind to the possibility that he's wrong. About anything

[@destinymcintire2188]

Not only stubborn but narcissistic. And we all know narcissists would sooner die ignorant than admit they ever did wrong.

[@Cruznick06]

As a kid, my parents instilled learning about things I was afraid of. My dad had a huge encyclopedia set and we would look up information about things like spiders and centipedes (which I was afraid of). My mom would take me to the library and we'd find further reading. They also exposed me to different cultures through food, music, art, and popular culture. My parents celebrated how cool and special other people's traditions were. I was always encouraged to try new things. Instilling a desire to understand others is one of the greatest gifts they could have ever given me.

[@timrosswood4259]

Sounds awesome! I personally have always been really fascinated by spiders since I was little. Though it helps we don't have any lethally venomous spiders here where I live. Anyway, you are right about understanding others and things that are different.

[@garrettjackson1451]

That’s awesome I’ve always been fascinated with world history and what other ancient cultures believed in and I have a desire to travel the world and see new things

[@WarFoxThunder]

HUGE parenting W

[@elenadirectorofmiiss7942]

Additionally, Luz always comes closest to losing when she fights Belos on HIS terms. In "Hollow Mind", she uses the opportunity to try and steal intelligence from Belos' mind, and it nearly gets her and Hunter killed. In the episode prior to Day of Unity, if she had talked to Amity's dad about what they knew, she would have been able to stop things sooner. Instead, they lied and snuck around, and it gets the entire Owl Crew captured. This is not to say these were bad decisions in the moment or even overall, but they decidedly Phillip-esque decisions for Luz to make, and the fact they didn't work further plays into the point that Owl House is making.

[@idlescree]

This is a really interesting observation, thank you for sharing!!😮

[@LittleHobbit13]

Interesting comment to read, because I think it also continues to tie into Luz's symbolism with light. Actions that mirror how Belos operates are things often described as things you would do "from the shadows". When she's honest and sincere ("in the light") she often sees great results.

[@whitemoonwolf13]

it wasn't her decision to infiltrate belos' mind tho, that was completely on accident

[@MissRandomNomad0o]

@@whitemoonwolf13 She had the intention of finding out more about Belos through his nephew when they both got transported into his mind, hence the word 'opportunity' in OP's comment.

[@whitemoonwolf13]

@@MissRandomNomad0o but she wasn't stealing it from his mind. Her initial plan was very straightforward and upfront. Very Luz. Once they were in his mind it was kind of a joint decision to go further

[@deathknelle3868]

The thing I love about Belos is that he believes himself to be good and in the right. He honestly believes he is doing the right thing by attacking the witches and demons, by scheming for centuries to commit witch and demon genocide, and by deceiving everyone. The best aspect of his character is that he is a liar but not just that, that he lies to himself and wholeheartedly believes his lies and that what he is doing is good and just. That is the best part of Belos as a villain, imo.

[@sketchyskies8531]

Belos is genuinely terrifying to me because someone could be just like him and be hiding in plain sight

[@idlescree]

Belos' evil isn't special. Lots and lots of people have common agonies, fixations, prejudices etc that seem relatively harmless and mundane or quiet. It's when given the combined power of authority, platform, visibility etc that people become emboldened, and broadcast it. Plenty of history's greatest monsters would have never become so if not for, essentially, the dumb luck of circumstances that put them in a position where they were fully enabled. It's why history's greatest monsters, when on TV, are able to bray and rally people and *millions follow* and point and say "YEAH, that guy represents me!" It validates the impulse to shut ones eye's--which is why stories like this are so so so important. Everyone has a capacity for horrific stuff if that's what they end up submitting their identity to. It's way taking the world with eyes wide open, a willingness to be wrong, and the bravery to seek understanding is so, well, heroic.

[@NoirRaven]

They are, they're called Republicans 🙃

[@NickTheGreatAndPowerful]

​@@NoirRaven You're not wrong.

[@ariannarivera8254]

@@NoirRavenfacts that’s why I am independent I trust no one lmao they both are scary but mostly the republicans are the horrifying ones I disagree with all of them completely

[@etherico3041]

@@NoirRavenrepublicans and democrats are two wings of the same bird. You clearly have a lot to learn especially about how your government actually works. Republicans and democrats don’t want what’s best for you they want what’s best for the power of the United States. That power comes at the expense of you. You do know you live in a republic right? Republican stems from rePUBLIC. It’s literally in the pledge of allegiance. You have even more to learn about good and evil this video could teach you something. It’s ironic your name is noirraven because obviously you have a very black and white view of reality when reality is grey

[@tatianaaa4569]

Been seeing wayyyy too much sympathy for Belos concerning his relatively unknown backstory. Like, no, his brother getting with a witch doesn’t justify his attempt at a mass genocide. No one mischaracterises this man more than his own fans 😭

[@evanbao93]

Of course it doesn't justify his actions. But I find it's far easier to destroy him if you know exactly what made him this way and use that knowledge to break him. A villain's worst fear, after all, is being rendered vulnerable and weak as the victims he seeks.

[@tatianaaa4569]

@@evanbao93 I mean, I agree with you, but what does this have to do with my comment. I was pointing out how often fans of his tend to desperately find some sympathetic aspect of his character - possibly to justify why they like him so much. Which makes no sense cause he’s an interesting enough character as is.

[@evanbao93]

@@tatianaaa4569 Sympathy is just human nature. It’s to understand a person better, even if they are horrible. But it’s not the same as condoning an evil man, which is more concerning. I see a lot of tragedy with Belos and wish in another universe, he would have made the right choices and not kill his brother. But Belos has made his choices already, so I look deep into his character to find his insecurities to break his spirit and deny him any sense of martyrdom.

[@LittleHobbit13]

Yeah, maybe he has some tragic backstory, but that means nothing in the larger picture. Caleb had the same tragic backstory and he made much better choices. As Scree says, it plays into the theme of "understanding vs willful ignorance". I really appreciated that they had Papa Titan come right out and clarify how you should be regarding Belos. His intentions aren't genuine; he justifies hurting innocent people for his own desire to view himself as a hero. The fact that the show explicitly said this and yet there are still so many people trying to find reasons to justify (even if they're not actively excusing it) why Belos did what he did is crazy. He did what he did because of his own malicious insecurities, and it's not your responsibility to posthumously redeem him.

[@evanbao93]

@@LittleHobbit13 That’s not how redemption works. It requires realization from the villain, which isn’t really redemption. Then it must be followed by genuine actions to atone for the sins. I prefer realization only, just so Belos dies like Frollo… realizing he’s damned as a monster.

[@spectralumbra1568]

I like that right when Hunter's mask comes off, just before he starts acting like his genuine self, Luz literally slaps him and tells him to wake up. I know it's just a joke playing on the "creepy kiss with an unconscious person" trope, but the timing is interesting.

[@autumnwhistles-yc5xb]

oooo!

[@zam6877]

With her last dieing breath she will croak "I treasure your beautiful fan-art!" "Gasp! I'm dead"

[@MunTheOddity]

Belos certainly is, in my view, immutable proof that a villain doesn't need to be morally complicated by layers of 'decency' as is so often used these days to be compelling, and your words have furthered that for sure. As a (ameteurish, to a degree) student of history, in a lot of ways, to me, Belos is the quintessential manifestation of humanity at its worst. Deluded, self-absorbed, impervious to all reason, at least in our eyes, unceasingly hateful and cruel, and so on. Circumstances around him molded the presentation of his views, and the subject of his unyielding hatred, but it was ultimately his decision to keep feeding the delusions, and more importantly the hatred, by practically sealing his eyes shut. He's compelling by both how brutal he is, and by the lengths he has to go to conceal as much as possible. In a lot of ways, Belos reminds me of the figures in our own history, up to and including the regimes and their leaders. Nearly every specimen like him presents themselves as grander, orderly, a gentleman, or whatever other forms are more pleasing to their audience's eyes while hiding the actual brutality that lies beneath their aims. They bombard those under them with promises and lies, threats and violence, cronyism and intrigue, and what not. And their past is often checkered, with many influences upon them that surround them when they make the final decision. Those that work under them, meanwhile, for their own reasons similar or dissimilar to his, follow in their stead and willfully contribute to the carnage. I remember a particular quote, brought up elsewhere, that seems particularly apt at certain times, especially in light of how Belos almost triumphed when it came to trying to discourage Luz, and by one of his primary means of maintaining control over others. "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Belos is more a fanatic, in this case to his own delusions. But it holds weight in that the people less certain of themselves, thus people obscured in the shadow and unable to see, are more likely to be steered by him. Such a figure presents themselves as convicted and focused, bearing a vision uncomplicated by the doubt, the 'unknown', and thus all the more appetizing. Of course, it all cloaks the danger present. Utterly brilliant video all around. I can't wait to see the one where you remain on that hill about the redemption arc bit (I am sold on that point, but I want to hear more of it soon).

[@Nikoyokin]

Very apt quote! Well said

[@garrettjackson1451]

Same here as a fellow student of history I compared belos to many infamous dictators who are just as evil as Belos, Adolf Hitler Joseph Stalin, Genghis Khan, Osama bin Laden and many more.

[@valor4531]

The end justifies the means is the greatest saying of the one who wears the boot, never the one whose face is being stomped on by the boot.

[@garethspotfur1]

Yes thank you! Every time a “villain” changes In This show it’s by personal choice. Lilith comes to terms with her guilt. Amity realizes how the pressures on her are shaping into someone she doesn’t want to be. And because luz accepted them, brought them light to see themselves.

[@SUforever-pg7ct]

Both Luz and Belos entered the Boiling Isles expecting to live out their fantasies. Luz wanted the flowery fantasy adventure while Belos sought to be the evil witch-slaying hero. But when faced with the reality that the demon realm wasn't what they expected, Luz adapted and grew and matured. Whereas Belos rejected this reality, choosing to never grow past his beliefs.

[@garrettjackson1451]

Indeed this also helped her gain a better grasp on social ques and realized that her actions had consequences but this also led to a guilt complex (which she eventually got over) and led to her building a life for herself in the human and demon realms. Belos on the other hand rejected the boiling isles for what it truly was and this led to him becoming a narcissist the opposite of a guilt complex

[@kuronya3582]

​@@garrettjackson1451 and he lost a chance to live peaciful life in both worlds

[@Starwarsfanboy0928]

Belos is honestly one of the best Disney villains ever made. This video is a shining example to why. Plus, it is also refreshing to have a villain who is evil throughout the whole series.

[@veronicapiccinini7956]

Ironically, in the show there instances where Light Is Evil and Dark Is Good. Belos is dressed with white and gold clothes, while the main weirdo trio are dressed with dark colors. The fact that 2 of them have a “demonic form” to save everyone only hammers my point even further

[@Manas-co8wl]

The Dark Light vs the Light Dark. It's a very advanced trope which people commonly think they know but rarely pulled off this well.

[@heyyodude8637]

@@Manas-co8wlI’m curious as to why?

[@Fairygoblet]

I tried to think if there was any point that Philip could have ever been redeemed, and the only way I could see that ever happening is if he had failed to kill his brother. And had to deal with the consequences of what he did with his brother still being alive. His brother has enough of a presence in his mind that failing to do what he did might have given him enough time to start questioning his own morals. Unfortunately, his one chance at changing his course happened hundreds of years ago and by the time Luz meets him as Belos, he is long gone.

[@JohnSmith-de9jb]

0:12 one of my favorite headcanons is that the magic of friendship is real in the Boiling Isles. My reasons for thinking being that Bump says “ the magic of friendship is no longer taught due to budget constraints” in one of the Owl Pellet shorts and that Luz and co. were able to animate an entire house during the moonlight conjuring, despite Gus having difficulty with any non-illusion magic, ditto with Willow for plant magic, and Luz straight up not having a bile sac.

[@stephentaylor356]

I feel like anyone who didn't think Hunter was 'punished enough', didn't pay attention to anything that happened to the poor guy. Dude went through more time being tortured and brainwashed that any human being has been alive. This feels a lot like saying domestic abuse victims deserved what they get because they don't just leave.

[@thecheck968]

I think even more accurate than Hunter realizing his humanity, is him realizing his personhood. Despite how much he denies it, there’s an entire person clawing to escape his persona as the Golden Guard. Anyways, another banger video essay. Takes some real talent to take these scenes I’ve seen a hundred times and add nuances I never even considered.

[@elrohirshouldercheaptrick9452]

Have you noticed that at the end of Watching and dreaming, Luz became the prophet of the titan, so to speak? Like the irony that the so called prophet of the titan Belos was defeated by the true prophet of the titan Luz

[@autumnwhistles-yc5xb]

ooo that's so cool!

[@morang9202]

Belos is a wonderful villain. Definitely one of my favs. He shares a lot in common with many other favorite villains of mine too. I know people don't really prefer this type of villain in the modern day, but I adore petty, unreasonable villains whose goals and character are entirely unsympathetic, so I hope to see more characters like him in future cartoons. Really great video btw. The effort you put into making them really shines through.

[@PhilFromhec]

Me too dude. Sympathetic villains are definitely fun, but they just get so old after a while 😭 I want more villains who are god awful, irredeemable people who I genuinely just couldn’t like as people if I tried. I don’t hate people, I very specifically don’t allow myself to hate people unless they’re genuinely horrible and cold people, and I want genuinely horrible and cold villains! I want to hate! That’s why belos is so awesome as a villain. He’s a dick and that’s it. Nothing redeemable about him.

[@VriskaSerket]

absolutely great video!!! you perfectly captured and broke down what made Luz SUCH a compelling and incredible protagonist paired with an equally well made antagonist in Belos, and god the Owl House really did craft such a masterful tale even with time constraints

[@idlescree]

Aaaaah thank you Vree!!! And thank you again for the stunning beautiful art T o T

[@ccherry.berryy]

“It is a show of understanding, and willful ignorance” HOLY FUCK IS THAT POWERFUL- AND YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

[@ritapizza821]

this video essay was honestly eye opening. i always knew that Luz's role in the show was to awaken others and show them the light, but i never quite thought of how Belos did the opposite and decieved the characters by blinding them with darkness. Thanks for analyzing the amazing writing in this show, my GOD this is so well made

[@idlescree]

Thank you! There's just so much to say about TOH and we can't wait to share more with you all ❤

[@ritapizza821]

@@idlescree man, im looking forward to more of your toh video essays aa

[@kaleidosode]

something i just love is that luz represents light, her name literally means light, the first glyph she learns is the LIGHT glyph, and that's always been her theme. and when she dies, she literally becomes the literal EMBODIMENT of light. she BECOMES it. and i think that's so cool. this show never fails to amaze me, no matter how many videos like this i watch. i love your videos, keep it up!! i love deep dives into toh

[@leitmotif7268]

27:46 bruh Lilith’s confession is one of the best voice acting line deliveries I’ve ever heard. The pain, the desire to inflict pain, the frustration, the feminine RAGE in her voice in eight words helped it to be one of the best plot twist reveals I’ve seen in animation.

[@idlescree]

There are so many incredible performances but yeah Cissy Jones and Zeno Robinson were incredible to my ear. I have a really distinct memory of the first time I saw this show (with a very high fever I'll add) and doing a double take during Hunting Palisman and thinking oh wow this guy (Hunter's VA) has a lot of experience and then looked him up and was right.

[@Sinchu9]

People don't seem to understand that knowing you did bad and have to make it up to the world can be a huge punishment, but because it's all internal people don't see it and think that it doesn't exist.

[@FelixFrendzy]

5:08 “and even Hunter somehow” that made me die laughing bro already got enough “punishment” in trauma

[@Parapsychotic89]

"Shadow is not the opposite of light, its ligh's parasite" is one of the best descriptions ive heard of the concept, both factually and dramatically.

[@johnvinals7423]

In French history, there was a powerful king named Philippe IV le Bel who was notorious for his ruthlessness and greed (he’s the guy who suppressed the Knights Templar, by the way).

[@adisappointedfbiagent449]

I wonder if that's whom he was based off of.

[@TreVerT96]

Something that I noticed about Belos final boss design is that it is definitely a reference to Sieth the scaleless from dark souls. A nice little touch and it is also pretty fitting considering that Sieth himself was very similar to Belos in his actions( cruel experiments, attempting to become a god like being, becoming more monstrous as time went on, etc).

[@hombojimbo]

Does Belos, therefore, have a tail weapon 🤔

[@johnvinals7423]

The fact of “Philip” meaning “Lover of Horses” could mean “Warrior” (appropriate for a person waging war on the Witches of the Boiling Isles) or it could be a reference to the horse-loving god Poseidon, arch nemesis of Odysseus (and now I bet you can see the clever, family-loving, struggling to return home Luz as a version of Odysseus).

[@dirisiri1267]

That metaphor with Poseidon is awesome. That's all I can say.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@dirisiri1267Khairete! I should also have mentioned that there’s strong evidence that in Mycenaean times, Poseidon was Lord of the Underworld and Hades did not emerge as a separate deity until the Archaic Period (Hades was definitely a separate, unique deity by the time “The Iliad” and “The Odyssey” were written down, however).

[@xsweetiebloomx605]

As a Humanities bachelor, I'm now obsessed with the Luz/Odysseus comparison, thank you :)

[@johnvinals7423]

@@xsweetiebloomx605 I actually went on Tumblr in 2021 and commissioned an artist to draw an artwork of an AU for “The Odyssey” wherein Odysseas Daughter of Lawertios is a butch lesbian warrior queen while her wife Panelopeia is a bisexual trans woman.

[@johnvinals7423]

@@xsweetiebloomx605Also, how would you feel if I compared Vi to Achilles and Adora to Aeneas?

[@ayceinquisitor190]

what you were saying about light and dark was very interesting and is a topic that I take under heavy consideration in my own work and in all my interpretations of things. What makes the interaction so complicated is the nature of Darkness itself. "Willful ignorance" is an excellent way of putting that complicated nature. We are afraid of what we don't know/don't understand, things that are hidden in the dark-and because of that fear we are often inclined to assume bad things more than good things. Just because it is obscured from us, does not mean that something hidden in darkness is inherently bad. That is not acceptable justification for turning away. Refusal to acknowledge those things in darkness, refusal to dive into our own personal darkness, will keep us chained and buried. We have to be willing to face what's scary, what's hidden and what's ugly, at the least within ourselves. The practice of "Shadow Work" is to address this. There is potent power in darkness, in accepting darkness and accepting the whole of one's self. Accepting that we can be good, bad and anything in between, based on the choices we make. Where "Light" can be aligned with "Evil" is when it is weaponized or used to masquerade. The appearance of being aware, of a carefully crafted persona or representation. When it is used to empower a shadow and utilized to do harm. The difference between Discipline and Control. So your analysis really puts into words and structures well this exploration of the concept I've been trying to understand on my own. I love so much of your content, you do a very damn good job and I hope to enjoy more in the years to come.

[@idlescree]

Thank you! Glad that the message is coming across and I'm glad you're enjoying our work!!

[@mattman15]

Well said, @ayceinquisitor190. Well said.

[@darkestthinker9639]

Hey Love the intro. Belose's death hit hard and I think the reason it did was seeing Luce standing still in stone cold silence. Let me say that again LUCE ! is standing still in cold silence. Luce not showing compassion because arfter speaking to the titan she understands what he is an impressive moment.

[@idlescree]

Thank you so much for watching!! And yeah, agreed, that scene gave me shivers!!!

[@darkestthinker9639]

@@idlescree Always a pleasure hope youre all doing well

[@santiagobarreraruiz7280]

Is luz* :p

[@idlescree]

@@santiagobarreraruiz7280 It might have been autocorrect!

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

She realized finally that there was no point trying to change Belos' mind or to show him mercy. A man without empathy or compassion would do/say anything to make things go his way, which made his final lies so hilarious. It's a great scene.

[@RethShannar]

Good to see you back! Well thought-out story analysis is always welcome. ... also, bleeping out the curses with bat twitter is much better than the annoying electronic bleep.

[@idlescree]

We are glad to be back! It’s been a truly bonkers summer for everyone on the team. And dkssjzzn thank you, the bat cheep joke was low hanging fruit but too easy to pass up. Thank you for watching!!

[@geekyforever3387]

For bleeping out curses I personal love the Fluttershy “Yay”

[@VanNessy97]

What I like to use for each censor word F🚚k - Truck horn S💩t - Taco Bell bong A🍑(hole) - That "ughhh" sound effect P😼sy - A cat meow C🐓k - A chicken cluck (also works with p🍆is) B🐶ch - Dog bark D💥mit - Explosion P🍋s - Spray bottle Follow for more curse word sound effects

[@brickmaster6775]

This might not have any relevance, but the Palismans tend to reflect who their owner is as a person. Luz's Snakeshifter Palisman shows how she can adapt to overcome any situation, and that, if you ask me, is quite brilliant

[@PhilFromhec]

And willow, as a plant witch, naturally has a pollinator as a palisman! Both of them have natural talent and developed skill at growing and nurturing plant life, and that brings me joy

[@ccherry.berryy]

“He uses his name like a chokehold” HOLY FUCK ARE YOU EVER SO RIGHT- HE LITERALLY NAMED HIM BY HIS TITLE AND THAT HAD NOT LEFT MY BRAIN SINCE YOU SAID IT

[@noahnaugler7611]

"Shadow is Light's parasite" What a raw line, and far more true than I think most realize

[@pockystyx4087]

It's a good lesson to teach kids that; you have to choose to be redeemed. The best redemption arcs usually start with the main characters giving the villain a chance; whether they take it or not isn't important, but if they finally start to choose to change based on that is. Belos basically made his choices; bad ones at that, over and over again. No one was gonna "save" him; he never wanted to be saved, so its good for kids to see what kind of person he is, to the very end. Between Belos' savior complex, the episode with the snake oil salesmen, and the Wizard, The Owl House has some valuable lessons for kids.

[@Supasmartguy]

Belos is a far bigger threat to humanity then the witches: the human realm he grew up in is very different than the modern one. He would probably hate it and become obsessed with changing it back to how it was in his day, probably through extreme violence and a hostile takeover.

[@EthanIlchert]

So he would become a Republican?

[@Lilith_The_Earthling]

​@@EthanIlchert Basically 😂, yes.

[@theatoft7650]

OH MY JESUS CHRIST I JUST REALISED THAT LILITH GAVE BELOS A SCAR FROM WHEN SHE AND LUZ TRAVELED BACK IN TIME AND YOU CAN STILL SEE IT ON HIM WHEN HE'S IN HIS HUMAN FORM AHHHHH

[@idlescree]

TOH is full of great details like that- every time you rewatch an episode, chances are you'll find something totally new that you hadn't noticed before! :D

[@Draikinator]

SO happy to have contributed the bouncy bat intro! It was super fun to make and I love your videos. This one hit it OUT OF THE PARK talking about narrative convention and subversion. The fact that forgiveness, redemption and restorative justice are such powerful themes in The Owl House that coexist with the idea that there ARE still villains that can't be forgiven, don't want to be, and need to be defeated is very powerful. Belos is such a phenomenally interesting character and FASCINATING to talk about. If there's one thing I love about his whole personal narrative and backstory it's Caleb's actual absence from the story itself, the negative space his death leaves behind. The ghost in the narrative. It's SO awesome to have such a complex and interesting villain who ISN'T morally grey, an irredeemable villain can STILL have so much depth beyond Being Evil! Thanks for the food!

[@CreatorProductionsOriginal]

I really like that Belos sticks to his morals to the max most times Aka, he probably would never have trapped Luz in the Demon Realm, because in his twisted moral there still was the fact he didn’t want any more humans to get stuck in it

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

He wouldn't have left her trapped, he just would have killed her instead. He would have seen it as mercy.

[@CreatorProductionsOriginal]

@@Kaipyro67ALT And that’s completely on his morals, that’s a good villain

[@mateorondon5291]

9:54 During this entire section I couldn't stop remembering Outer Wilds' dlc, where a major part is moving past the fear of the dark to face what is within, sometimes without a light to guide you, because only then can you know the full truth, instead of simply what is within the light. And how living in willful ignorance of what you hid in that darkness has severe consequences for yourself and those around you.

[@slateoffate9812]

8:10 The Violet Howler pointed out that in Kingdom Hearts, the conflict between Light and Darkness is essentially selflessness versus selfishness. Neither are bad, self care can be considered selfish, there's a hint in the name, after all, but neither are good, as selflessness can lead to a "needs of the many" mentality that leaves many innocents to suffer and rot and devalues selflessness' emphasis on connection. Maleficent is an example of evil darkness, seeking ultimate power for herself without any empathy towards others whatsoever, while the Master of Masters is an example of evil light, dismissing every person he's hurt in his plan as necessary collateral to save the most people. There's also the whole thing about generational trauma, but if you're a KH fan, I recommend Constructing Kingdoms.

[@talaofthevalley]

What I appreciate about Luz is that her thought process is not infallible. She is not always in the right, and what she thinks isn't always correct either. In Hollow Mind, Luz is openly confused over why people fall for Belos' act, why they believe in him so strongly. He's so obviously evil, how can they not notice, she wouldn't fall for it for even a second. Except then it's revealed she did fall for it, she did get tricked, sucked in by his words and lies without noticing until it was too late, and then realising it was all so much worse than she first thought when who she believed to simply be Philip tricked her. We all like to think we're smarter and more clever than we actually are. Because manipulation is never that simple, and no one is immune to being dragged into a cult. This ties in with how she interacts with Hunter. Until she saw for herself how Hunter and Belos interacted, Luz did not consider that Hunter could be in actual danger if he crossed Belos. It's like how kids who have never experienced abuse from their guardians have trouble even imagining that sort of reality. She gets frustrated with him that he still clings to Belos' lies despite what they see. It's not done maliciously, I think the thought just genuinely did not occur to her. But once she realises to him they're not just having some fun back-and-forth bickering, this isn't some lighthearted banter like in her books, it's actually serious, Hunter is at very real risk of being hurt, has *been* hurt and is in a very unsafe situation, she drops all ribbing to instead try to help him. Offer him a place at the owl house, somewhere safe to go away from Belos. Even if she doesn't understand everything, she still wants to help, and it's so very Luz. And I am so sad that the story seemed to initially lean towards Hunter staying at the owl house post HM, but they had to change it for time after being cancelled, because I would have loved to see their interactions directly after.

[@MarioBrosFan]

This parallel of understanding vs. willful ignorance also extends to the show itself, I find. By means of a genre-breaking story with wonderfully diverse and complex characters, the creative crew behind The Owl house provided an outlet for its audience to feel seen and understood, bringing their struggles and hopes into the limelight. Unfortunately, the corporate suits at Disney did not appreciate the show for what it was, and decided to cancel it because they could not see its value and thought it had no place in their twisted vision of the company's brand. Their paper-thin attempts at progressive representation in their advertising shows how desperately they're lying to themselves about their supposed inclusiveness. Having to negotiate for a shortened third season truly highlighted how little they thought of the show. But the Owl House team did not take that gut punch lying down. They made the best of what they had and made true magic, cramming all the compelling characterization and storytelling they could muster into those three special episodes. The viewership numbers on the first part of the finale alone put everything into perspective, forcing the executives to confront the foolishness of their actions as the show proved to be reasonably successful. Yet they refuse to learn from this mistake, and continue to produce hollow reproductions of their company's glory days, unwilling to change their ways and move forward. Walt Disney is probably looking down on those executives with utter disappointment. The Owl House didn't have the runtime it deserved, but it left the impact it needed. It will stand for years to come as a beacon of light for its fans, and as a display of the dark, obstinate malice at Disney's executive board.

[@anxiousoptimism5517]

"Enemy to brother" Love that. Need to make that a tag.

[@ItsYaBoiMicah]

I cried after the finale. it's nice to see the fandom's still so lively, though

[@idlescree]

Of course! Even though the show has been cancelled, that doesn't mean we have to say goodbye- I hope we'll all be making videos and fanart and crying over the finale together for many years to come ❤

[@Animogx]

Man, it took me too long to watch this and I apologize because this was a great video. Belos just remains such a strong villain in the Disney library and I am all for it. While a lot of stories have conditioned us to want to see the Protagonist's good nature rub off and transform the Antagonist into their best good self, that just doesn't always happen either in fiction or reality. Sometimes they just want to be their best bad self and that is Phillip/Belos to a T. Though you made me think on what other villains Disney has had that really embodies him. He takes the religious fervor of Frollo, the culture and poise of Scar, Ursala's bombastic pomp, and the Shadow Man's smooth charisma, all traits that are strong and powerful, even admirable traits in some regards, and melds them into a monstrous thing. But you are right, he is a intellectual brute who's greatest tool and weapon is his lies, a veneer of something amazing when inside he was a monster. Which, and correct me if I am wrong because I could very much be off, but that makes him like Professor Rattigan from The Great Mouse Detective to me. A powerhouse of a mind who indulges parts of himself that he shouldn't much to his detriment, all leading to that final push where the guise of some regal being is stripped away and the true beast inside is let loose to lash out in all its primal fury. All in all, he really just works as an Antagonist and is one of the best, though I now just wish he did get his own little song number because that would top people's Disney Villain Songs playlists, mine included XD

[@pantheonmaker9437]

3:25 SO! Jesus was represented by a snake! Also Moses had a stick wiþ a snake, which had holy properties. Lucy only turned into a snake because he wanted to fool Eve, so… good point þo

[@pantheonmaker9437]

Anoþer þing þe upside down cross is iconically demonic while it’s actually a symbol of humility (and þe actual demon cross is way sicker! Do yourself a favour and look up þe Leviathan’s Cross), so it’s not unreasonable for holy symbols to be corrupted as demonic

[@arshu_parshu1999]

Whaþ? Why are you using a þ?

[@DreamsOfLight009]

The fact that Belos' wears a golden mask is a fantastic visual metaphor for how Belos wears a golden mask. XD But more seriously, that's interesting. You're right - goodness emerges from empathy. Evil... well, there are a lot of places it comes from but deception is a big one, esp. self-deception. And lies... are easy. Empathy, meanwhile, sometimes means realizing that someone has locked themselves into their delusions and won't come out. And if such people decide to inflict their own personal nightmare onto the world - as we are seeing so pervasively these days - you can't save or convert them. You can only defeat them.

[@ccherry.berryy]

The way you talk about Hunter just brings me back to that cute little blurb you did about the real Hunter in your analysis of him and it’s just so cute and I’m definitely gonna have to go rewatch that

[@Alex_schalkwijk]

“But enough about enemies to lovers, now for enemy to brother!”😂🤩❤️

[@idlescree]

YOUR HONOR I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO SAY IT--

[@TheLegendaryForgOfFrogLake]

@@idlescreeTime stamp??

[@Dragonblade722]

One thing that rarely gets talked about is that despite being depicted as a religious zealot from colonial times, Belos doesn't display many of the stereotypical prejudices that are often attributed to such characters. He is never depicted as racist (except for witches), sexist or homophobic. People just assume that he's these thing due to his race and time period, but by that logic Caleb should have also been these things. Despite Luz being a bisexual, female of color, Belos never treats her as a lesser. Belos only ever see her as a fellow human that he needs to rescue from her "misguided views". This is an interesting characterization that implies that Belos's hatred of witches has made him adopt a more modern view of humanity in a us vs them sort of way. It's another thing that I wish they had more time to explore.

[@samuelclayhills3298]

Coud just have been censorship since Disney probably would not let him say slurs or he really was the most progressive fucker from the 1600s.

[@garrettjackson1451]

Possible or they couldn’t add that because it’s a Disney show

[@garrettjackson1451]

All he cared about was that Luz was the first human he saw in centuries

[@Dragonblade722]

@@garrettjackson1451 He has several female witches in high positions within his government. He hates them because they are witches, not because they are female. Belos also rule over a society that is very pro lgbt with no issues other than hating their magic. Hell, even after being exposed, Belos never once misgenders Raine despite having no need to pretend. I'm starting to think that people attribute these prejudices (with no evidence) to Belos's character because subconsciously they need/want him to be a bigot.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

I think it’s also interesting that Luz would have (probably) grown up culturally Catholic, being from a Latino family. Aside from all the rest, he’d see her as an indulgent heretic….🫠

[@sweesbees]

i love how you pointed out the symbolism of snakes. it further speaks to belos' religious leanings in my eyes, for of course a christian like him would see snakes as evil, back to the serpent in the garden of eden. and since belos is the bad guy, snakes are now redefined as good and in line with how our heroes transform and heal. wolves have a similar treatment, with camila asserting that wolves are good parents, despite the ruthless image most people associate with wolves. vs belos who uses the symbol of deer, a more "innocent" animal, to hide his true intention and make him seem like a victim, as he does. i just love how this series redefines animal symbolism. (also your videos are so good! in fact the hunter one is what got me thinking about wolves and deer so thank you for that)

[@letranger4461]

I am really glad that Belos wasn’t redeemed last minute. When narratives take that utilitarian stance it comes off, to me, like “You and I are a lot alike in that we have strong convictions that we fight for. What makes you so good if you also use violence or if you kill me? Who’s to say which one of us is morally correct if you do bad things too? How can you know if this will yield the most good?” The Owl House had a lot nuance when approaching its themes and I enjoyed this analysis

[@nikc-pg1xf]

27:46 agreed, the VA did an amazing job delivering that line

[@tahraethestoryteller6079]

I think it’s the fact that we thought Emperor Belos was Darth Vader when he was really a Judge Frollo all along The man deemed the most powerful witch by another powerful witch was the same species as Luz who was looked down upon for her lack of magic may be the funniest thing of all (that and with confirmation that Evelyn and Caleb being the current Clawthornes ancestor makes Phillip/Belos Lilith’s uncle too making her a nepotism baby like Hunter) 😂 😂🤣🤣🤣💀😭

[@idlescree]

Tragic irony, thy name is Phillip Abuse-Not Wittebane

[@samuelclayhills3298]

Darth Vader commited multiple genocides and was a child murderer before he fell to the dark side. Plus he was complicit in the empires war crimes in the 19 years it raind.

[@pengine6096]

Here's something about him I noticed: In season one's finale, Belos is deified, mysterious, and powerful. His face is hidden by a deer mask. In season two's finale, Belos removes the mask, taking away some of the mystery and godhood, though he is still incredibly powerful. In season three, and some of the end of season two, he's fully a monster. His power, mystery, and aura are gone, replaced by an exterior which reflects his interior. A monster. In the finale of season three, another facet of his character takes hold: He's a leech. Luz has her power willingly given to her, directly from the source, yet Belos takes it. He attaches himself to the heart of the Titan, taking its power, and attempts to "cleanse" the Boiling Isles.

[@Lilith_The_Earthling]

This is a great observation. Kinda like how darkness is described as the parasite of light in the video.

[@ccherry.berryy]

As usual, this video ripped my heart out and made me appreciate this show all the more, thank you for creating. It’s easy to feel powerless in a world like this, but I am light, I will not give in

[@idlescree]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@warlocket5326]

The fact that Belos’ first design(his armor and mask) resembles a iron maiden(a medieval torture device) so much is telling-

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

Have you seen the Masks video? They really delve into his design in that one.

[@silverthedruid4754]

umm ackshually 🤓 the Iron Maiden wasn't a torture device. It was made up by 19th century museums as an attraction (shock value) edit: I do know what you mean, I'm not saying anything against your argument

[@miss-ari]

There's a whole lot of snarky remarks in the comments (too many to address them all individually) about how Philip/Belos is irredeemable because of his attempted genocide, end of story. But there are soooo many examples of fictional characters who have committed genocide, murders, and atrocities (sometimes on a much larger scale than Belos 😬) and yet they have still managed not just to be forgiven, but they've become beloved by the audience- Darth Vader, Vegeta, Cecil Harvey, Loki, The Arbiter, Missy/The Master, the list goes on and on. Hell, part of why we love them so much is because of how dramatic and hard-earned their transformations are. I don't know, it just comes off as a bit stupid to come in here and claim Philip Wittebane is beyond saving solely because of The Murders.

[@Laezar1]

For me it's not so much about belos being beyond saving and more about his opportunity for growth not being worth the risk. It's not that he can't fundamentally change but that if he doesn't want to then his victims deserve to be safe more than he deserves to be extended kindness. When someone intends to cause more harm it's not kind to spare them and give them the opportunity to do more of that harm. Yes it's kind and empathetic towards them, but it shows a lack of concern for the life of the victims while they should be the first consideration. In the exemples you give, I would say sparing vegeta was a really stupid decision despite how much he grew afterwards, and he did harm more people so no matter how much you value his redemption it can't be worth the harm caused. On the other hand cecil is a good one because it didn't rely on someone letting him harm people, nobody really had the opportunity to stop him and he decided to change by himself and actually took steps to fix the harm he caused. I think that's a better way to show growth, being self driven and motivated by an understanding of the harm caused and a willingness to try and make up for it. Rather than some form of antagonist growth that ends up demanding victims to forgive or not acknnowledging the harm at all.

[@miss-ari]

@@Laezar1 That's an interesting perspective- it makes me wonder, how can we weigh up the good a redeemed villain has done (or could do?) against the harm they've caused? Is it ever that simple? Of course, these things also REALLY depend on how grounded the story is. Even if Vegeta has saved more people by now than he's killed, I don't think Dragon Ball exactly encourages this line of thinking- Rule of Cool and all.

[@Laezar1]

@@miss-ari I think it's less about "have they done enough" and more about "what are we expecting them to do in the future". "Have they done enough" is a question for people who were hurt to decide wether or not they can forgive and wether or not they need some form of reparation for the hurt (I'm operating on the premise of restorative justice here, not punitive). "What will they probably do" is the question you should ask when assessing what response is proportionate when trying to stop them. And here it's not about justice, it's about safety and harm mitigation. The issue being the fiction tend to give way more potential for harm to their vilain than what we typically have in real life so that kinda muddies the water in term of what response is appropriate. We typically don't have to worry about fascists fusing with a god and becoming giant kaijus lmao

[@yourepika9738]

I love the amazing contrast between Philip and Caleb. Both boys grew up in the same hateful society, both suffered the same trauma, they both got to see the boiling isles for what it is, and who witches truly are. While Caleb opened his mind and chose acceptance of these others whom he was taught to hate (he assumably does considering he got together with Evelyn and started a family with her, choosing to stay in the boiling isles), Philip chose to stay ignorant.

[@popculturedata]

Belos really made a mess

[@moosegod2530]

You know it's a good essay when I'm happy stimming basically the whole time :)

[@idlescree]

That might be some of the best praise we've gotten to date! Thank you so much for the positive feedback! 💓

[@orbitronn]

I watched your hunter analysis video some time ago, and just yesterday was looking forward to a new video. You manage to break these characters down in ways I have yet to see from other creators. Love it!

[@idlescree]

Thank you for watching!!!! I'm glad you enjoyed it--we have great fun making these :D

[@ccherry.berryy]

4:14 I think I understand what you mean and very much understand how it enforces your point about WILLFUL ignorance. That is a phenomenal take and just goes to show how good you are at essays like holy shit-

[@redjirachi1]

There's a reason that pride is considered the deadliest sin; it prevents you from realizing what you've done is wrong or believing you need to be redeemed

[@tired_squirb]

thank you so much for nerding out in such an eloquent and satisfying way

[@torazely]

All in all, it seems to boil down to choice overall. The choice to understand, to accept. Belos was given that choice many times. He turned it down every time. THAT'S why he's evil.

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

Boom. That's what it comes down to. A lot of commenters have missed the point entirely "Pretty sure he's irredeemable because of genocide" but there have been many horrible villains in fiction that were allowed to change, grow, even be forgiven. Belos chooses to ignore the possibility that he is ever wrong. He dies still believing that he was the good guy. He never would have seen himself as anything else.

[@torazely]

@@Kaipyro67ALT not only does he chose to ignore it, he openly rejects the idea whenever it's presented to him. Just ignoring it would be bad enough, but that's more of a passive act. He ACTIVELY refuses to believe in anything beyond his own superiority.

[@Cheese-Slime-Sheriff]

Honestly, I love how there’s no redemption arc or anything! This is not someone who can be redeemed, it’s a shell of a good man who’s become evil and he *enjoys* it. There is no “true self trapped inside”, this *is* his true self… his truly disgusting self

[@jungletherainwing1471]

The calling out of him closing his eyes is actually very interesting because eyes are an interesting theme in the owl house. I am not sure what to say about all of Belos's eyes but the heroic characters are far more likely to have visible eyes then villains. Belos: Wears a mask that obscures his eyes and has a bunch of eyes that are not visible in his human form Hunter/The Golden Guard: Wears a mask that obscures his eyes until 'Hunting Palisman' where both the audience and the characters start understanding him as Hunter rather than the Golden Guard. Lilith: First appears wearing a mask. Also after her redemption or in flashbacks she is often seen with glasses implying that under Belos she was sacrificing her own comfort/ability to fit what she thought would get his approval. I would say likely ability because if she has some kind of seeing disability that would feed into the themes of willingly not seeing Kikimora: One eye is covered by her hand thing Emperor's Coven Members: Wearing masks Raine: Before Eda's Requiem, whenever they are seen their glasses are obscuring their eyes Eda: Whenever her curse activates her eyes go completely black, and when they are hit with light they temporarily turn to normal and Eda regains control. When she gains a level of control over the owl beast and gains Harpy Eda form her eyes are still visible even in the altered form Luz: Eyes always visible. It is noticeable that in 'Oh titan, where art thou' both her and Eda's eyes were visible through their fake Emperor's Coven masks Gus, Willow, and Amity: Eyes are almost always visible. The only exception is Gus and WIllow's eyes glow when they are you doing particularly powerful spells. In addition when Willow is holding in her emotions in Season 3 or whenever she is being creepy her glasses obscure her eyes There are likely more examples and a very similar thing can be said about cloaks. The Owl House is really good at this

[@lindenshepherd6085]

Love this analysis! Just wanted to mention: Raine is they/them!

[@jungletherainwing1471]

@@lindenshepherd6085 Whoops, my bad. I'll fix it

[@lindenshepherd6085]

@@jungletherainwing1471 💚 Thank you!

[@2-question-marks]

"Philip is a very scrub tier puritan name" Name tier list when

[@idlescree]

Scrub Tier: Philip, Samuel, Josiah S Tier: Praise-God, Abuse-Not, Fight-the-good-fight-of-faith God Tier: Creature Cheeseman, Mahershalalhashbaz Christmas

[@samdwimch7345]

Yet another amazing video, this was so nice to watch and I love how you talk about the nuances and deeper messages behind this show cause honestly it’s hard to put into words. All the stuff you say is why I love this show more than anything, and I’ve never been happier to have stumbled across your channel!!

[@genericname2747]

Owl House AU where Phillips name is If-Christ-Hadst-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Hadst-Been-Damned.

[@Kaipyro67ALT]

"Play-Stupid-Games-Win-Stupid-Prizes Wittebane."

[@ccherry.berryy]

“Luz, extending the understanding for herself to others” that was a personal attack that was not required how dare you /j

[@ccherry.berryy]

6:58 WELL THEN- bro you are so perceptive with using logic to highlight your philosophy to prove your points it’s honestly incredible

[@PencilKing21]

Another great video. I can always count on you folks to brighten my day and gets my brain a' thinking. (Also great choice of music, I love Oh Geeez)

[@idlescree]

Our pleasure! And yessss oh geeez are next level amazing

[@area52ron]

Like in Steven universe “Some people just don’t want to change” or take accountability for their actions and decide to change

[@thatlemur6065]

Belos is essentially Disney's new Frollo just less horny

[@nooneinparticular9879]

Hunter shouldnt get get more punishment. The fact that he knows what he is and that he isnt "unigue" like everyone else is (as in he is a clone of a long dead man and has died many times before.), almost has a mental breakdown and stuggled to find his place in the world knowing that his only family member has been planning his death and torture since he was "born".

[@Vixenish56]

omg you have no idea how fast I clicked! I love your voice, your editing style, and especially the topics you cover and your analysis! Keep up the stellar work

[@idlescree]

Thank you so much!!!

[@ccherry.berryy]

“To understand something is to except it’s pain and nuance” OH- OK- well I’m tearing up now thanks for that /lh

[@adamk-paxlogan7330Sucks]

why are you spamming?

[@bstreet500]

The intro is soooo good! 🔥🔥🔥🤩🤩

[@idlescree]

Thank you. Draikinator made the animated intro for us and they are SO skilled. The hedgehog did the beautiful music-video opening and the two of them together are just amazing.

[@jackmack4181]

16:58 I would use the word “Weakness” because hunter showed off a flaw about him and to be flawed is to be human

[@ziziJ1235]

Why the heck do all of your videos make me cry?!

[@idlescree]

Thank you for the high compliment ajfdlsjg Glad you are enjoying them!

[@thegrandxbunny2073]

Emperor Belos is certainly one of my favorite villains in recent times. He is intimidating, calculating, monstrous, cunning, cruel, dogmatic, and destructive all wrapped into one scary semi-British puritan package. In early seasons he used his control over the society and use of propaganda to mold the people around him and puppeteer people like Lilith to do his dirty work, even if it directly conflicts with their own true intentions. He got to this position through fearmongering and abusing the very power he sought to destroy. Even before that, time and time again he was given the chance to turn his life around, specifically when his brother Caleb introduced him to Evelynn and especially when he would meet a time travelling Luz and Lilith. Instead of befriending them, he saw them as a means to an end in his self centered black and white narrative of "I'm the hero and everyone who gets in my way after they see me as a genocidal maniac is a villain and/or doesn't understand the fact that I am right," (We were robbed of a Belos villain song btw). As the story progresses, Belos' hypocrisy personifies itself as Belos becomes a literal monster that reflects the beast within, a horned skeleton who literally eats the skin of those he possesses/manipulates, until it escalates to this form becoming essentially a demon among demons, a Lucifer for the Boiling Isles, the devil on the Titan's shoulder (err... Heart), scorching the land that never directly hurt him until he chose to hurt it first (note that Redfang and Greenfang only antagonized him AFTER he killed Bluefang in his efforts to get closer to the Collection Stone). A man so lost in his own grandeur that he overlooked the idea of anyone being able to hurt him, let alone a human that he THOUGHT he manipulated, a human who was able to beat him because unlike him, SHE had a group of family of friends who backed her because she was always willing to back them. Belos is almost a perfect amalgamation of popular villain archetypes to form the near perfect villain to root against in awe as he lands face first off of his high horse after it bucks him off for wearing bloodied spurs. And that's why I want him to fight the villain from Scooby-Doo 2 Monsters Unleashed in the next season of Death Battle. Wait, wrong argument. (Side note, while you were talking I noticed the Collector's projection is literally BLACK AND WHITE, much like his understanding of morality.)

[@momhplyfuk9284]

I can't believe Vriska did fanart for the video about Light. The fantastic, compelling, video about light and nuance. Also, your little bat sprite is SO cute

[@Ikol3751]

Good to see another vid from you Scree! Hope this youtube thing is working out for ya!

[@idlescree]

Thank you! We are still having a great time and have some really cool stuff on the way :D

[@SillyNep]

I love your Owl House videos so much, I already love the show and your videos make me look at it from angles i havent before or even just make clear thoughts ive had vaguely while watching it thank you so much for making them

[@danielcurren2119]

Belos is basically the culprit from persona 4, same leitmotivs of shadows obscuring truths with lies ( p4's main theme) and being a direct foil to the main character, but is shown the main character is different enough because of their bonds that they make throughout the game, which the culprit doesn't have and sticks with it until the end.

[@misterpootis123]

i forgot about this channel for a few months and came back to see the production quality triple its crazy you are so good at your job

[@idlescree]

Thank you so much! The channel is a collaborative effort, and we all do our best to make improvements with each new release- we're glad it shows! 😄

[@Grim-Aces]

I thought of Belos' names as a take on bellows, which is a device used to blow air into a fire to stoke it. He uses his lies and words to direct people into doing the things he wants by stoking their emotions.