Why Black Desert isn't MAINSTREAM

[@Phrax10k]

I feel like Pansy is transforming into his "I love this game, but I'm fed up and tired" alter-ego arc and i'm loving it. Way to keep it 100 Pans.

[@b3nt0t]

Lmao. You can see in his face that he is tired.

[@ecerra1200]

My reason for giving up on this game was the progression. I was already in the end game, I loved the grind and rng to me isn't terrible by any means. Most MMO's depend on rng like boss drops etc. HOWEVER, this is the only game that progression can mean regression. Instead of having a grind finally pay off and feel great, BDO can make you grind for weeks and than you lose. When you inevitably succeed its more of a relief than rewarding. Toxic and unfun. The best example of BDO I have heard was that the developers had created a mona lisa but than decided to draw all over it in crayon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@llustrations]

?

[@JakeAtkins11]

I dont really think the time getting gears the problem as much as the problem being the shit you do to get said gear. If this game had more fun variety of ways to getting the gear i doubt nearly as many people would care if it takes as long as it does. Game needs more activitys that competes or at least comes close to silver per hr at grind spots. Personally i enjoy the idea of long term gear progression, i just want more shit to do with my friends.

[@markreaper]

i completely agree with this

[@davidpowers9178]

Dude not many people even with those changes is willing to invest that kind of time. It's the sheer frustration it causes.

[@cereal9285]

Yeah. if i could progress gear just by doing the things i love which is PVP then it wouldn't be such an issue

[@nikolatino4656]

Well said bro!

[@prostobaka]

I really like the idea that just by crushing monsters, I can earn money for top gear, this process itself is good, both graphics and animations, but the time required is a problem here, but in general, activities that are not stressful for a solo player would also be good thing.

[@CommandoMaster]

Realistically, the average player with Seasonal Tuavala is not making 700+mil/h consistently. They aren't grinding with Agris and Max drop rate on all the time, so the average time it takes from Seasonal Gear to Soft Cap 293/381 is gonna probably be more like 600+ hours, not 300h.

[@BryanHalda]

I tested this out in last season on a brand new account with no pearl items. Just grinding, it took me 360 hours to get to 297/377 using Jetina quests and going caphras only (no blackstar gear).

[@lunarshadow5584]

@@BryanHalda And those are statistics from people that know what their doing. I don't so I'm 230/270, uncertain which direction I should be going. Like should I be making more Tuvala gear to grind some fail stacks? Should I graduate from Seasonal as quickly as possible? I don't know because I'm playing casually but even then I'm seeing how bad things are because I doubt my ability to get to 100 stacks without accidentally using it on something unimportant, an important factor for this most recent limited time event.

[@valentinbarascu9413]

@@lunarshadow5584 damn, i get how you feel.. im currently on 256/307... and tbh i can't even make 700mil an hour, the most i make per hour is 300mil per hour with drop rate and drop amount buffs... i play for around 400 hours excluding the time I afked, but the amount of stuff you can do in this game... it just feels all too overwhelming sometimes... honestly all my gear, I just bought off the market simply cuz enchancing scares the shit out of me ever since i lost 2 Tet crescent rings :( but tbh, i honestly still love the game. I play it very slow and try out a lot of different stuff, there really is so much to do in this game, and I am not a max efficiency player, and I do not want to be one, because I actually really like the slow feel of the game. oh yeh, if youre playing on NA and youre looking for a buddy to grind with, im down >_>, maybe we can help each other out

[@BryanHalda]

@@lunarshadow5584 Here's what I've learned as a player since 2015, and the strategy I used last season. Season.... Get full PEN Tuvala. Finish season journey. Continue to grind season Arsha (or not if you don't like pvp) in areas where you'll make good money but without the chance of running into people often, like far out Valencia locations. When you graduate, take the PEN capotia (ignore the earring). Do your AP/DP journals. Do all of the main quest lines. At this point you should have around 250 contribution points. Buy full tet Loggia gear and level cooking to GURU 1 so you can do the daily imperial cooking turn ins. Make Vinegar and Essence of liquor en masse to help get you there. Turn in the byproducts for more CP. Save up for TET accessories and buy them off the marketplace. DO NOT TAP. Work on Jetina quests every day. Don't miss them and there is an EZ pen accessory in it for you. Do Jetina armor and helm first so you can grind out Fallen God pieces. Buy TET boss armor as soon as you can and get it to caphras level 4. Caphras your TET boss weapons to hit new AP brackets. You should be around 269/320 after season doing this. When you hit 269ap, which should be extremely easy, you can grind Elvia areas for 500m/hr. Doing this, coupled with daily imperial cooking turn-ins should make you a couple billion a day if you play casually. Just remember to be patient, save your silver for the next item, and participate in all of the events. They give so much free stuff...it really adds up if you pay attention.

[@poop-yi1lj]

@@lunarshadow5584 just dont enhance. i got 217 fail stack for Tet urugon shoes trying to pen. failed 17 times in a row with crons too.. just buy the gear, unless you want to rage quit uninstall the game. Once you're ablw to grind a little faster, try going to centaur. with my berzerker, i make about 600m to 800m, just casual 1hr grind everyday. game is not bout rushing, its bout having fun and stressing on ehancement.

[@jfleysh]

You saved me 1,000 hours by watching this video and I love you for that. I love BDO but honestly the grind just isn't worth it when there are so many other games to play.

[@Despond]

Couple hours a day is a grind? Not BDO's fault you have no clue how to play and refuse to engage in all the other gameplay other than mob zones.

[@ArktechFilms]

@@Despond don’t justify part time job game design because you have sunk cost LMAO

[@jfleysh]

@@ArktechFilms Perfectly said

[@louder0123]

Much more than 1000 hours, i was grinding about 7k hours at very least

[@laurentpecriaux1345]

So what's a game worth it for you ? Every other MMOS out there are just meh ... BDO is the most beautiful with unmatched combat system yet there is a LOT of other activities to do, it's not only about grinding for money and GS

[@marcusvinicius1186]

I dropped because of the mindless grind. Hours and hours of grind doing the same rotation. Plus the gamble gear upgrade system. Don't get me wrong, the game has a lot of strong points but when things u do at the game start to look like a chore it is time to drop it

[@duhancik]

they should delete all player logs and everybody will play like zero to hero but not like this grinding logic...

[@JonModafokin1]

Dont play korean games then , they are all grindy , most of us play the game cuz we love grinding 5-8 hours a day , as simple as that

[@Jeffren92]

@@JonModafokin1 but how can you have fun brainlessly playing a game for 8 hours a day every single day doing exactly the same stuff? Thats just delusional talking

[@Jeffren92]

@@Unknown_Web_User if by rare drop you mean a distortion no, yes you get happy cause its a few more silver but its just more silver going into the pot and its nothing more than silver. But if youre a collector looking for the rare treasure items sure, but they are almost pointless and require huge ammounts of hours

[@b3nt0t]

Facts. The problem is, this game will play you, not the other way around.

[@shabcity123]

@imPansy I think there are alot of factors that keep the game from being mainstream and honestly super successful. 1. The one you heavily addressed which is the gear grind, and the gap between someone who no lifes the game and lets be real someone who has a life and other interests. BDO feels like a game that if you stop you fall further behind others and get punished when you can't fight back. 2. Lack of customization. Character Creation is fantastic, but this is one of the most limited MMORPGS out there in outfit customization. WoW, SWTOR, GW2, FF14 to name a few have an unholy amount of outfit combinations. In BDO you don't have that many, and not all the outfits can have gloves and such modified. If you are gonna have a long grind at least let me spend money and customize. 3. Content, with such a cool combat system there is very few ways to actually use it. 4. Breadth and not always alot of depth. Many of the life skills for example have fallen so far behind and if you get into the game to that point can feel like a waste of time which could kill motivation. 5. Aggressive shop, I would rather pay 14.99 then buy 3 different buffs. (like why jesus). 6. Alts are a big part of mmo's how about the fact if i make a new character i need to rebuy all my inventory and weight like jesus. Just some of the stuff beyond just grind alot.

[@Josh-qs1rl]

My main issue was always enhancing, you have 2 options grind for 37 hours and then buy outfits and not get the upgrade or grind for 100 hours to buy the upgrade and it doesnt actually make a noticeable difference

[@poop-yi1lj]

LOL so true. i just grind to buy the outfit nowadays rather than spending real money for the costumes.

[@miuletzmitzu6641]

Yup, if the difference wasn't that big I would'nt have complained, but the fact that some people can get 200h worth of grind or more by being lucky and clicking a button which takes like 2 seconds is just too much.

[@asdesdvfq222c]

I love BDO, I have free time and I can grind in this game for years. Other MMOs I run out of goals so quickly and then stop. But BDO continues to satisfy. It is not for everyone though, it is very very repetitive.

[@imPansy]

agreed!

[@JuanR907]

@@imPansy could advise me which boss tet weapons and armor choose from tuvala pen exchange for my Lahn awekening pve?? Thnks 👍🏻

[@laurentpecriaux1345]

@@JuanR907 you cannot go wrong with Kzarka if succession or Dandelion if Awakening. For armor choose the Red Nose, as you want to PEN it, add 10 levels of caphras, get the Flame to make your red nose a Fallen God armor

[@5amuk]

I'm new to the game and it has soo much to do. Of course leveling gear is the main stuff but I'm loving the grind to max my horse's skills. I love the fact that you have to walk all the way through to actually get to places. It makes you feel the need to level up your horse and get that professional on training as I just did today. I didn't even start fishing but I always see a ton of people doing it close the the storage guy. I'm playing it for less than a week but I'm really loving it.

[@johngilbertfrancisco7050]

Quality content, Panz! majority of the players already know this but some won't admit, The video is not negtive at all. Keep it up! Updated Awa Striker guide next!!!

[@imPansy]

Thanks dude!

[@MilitaryDog.]

Thanks for the vid Pansy. I’m with ya man. I love BDO, been playing since 2016 and I just recently hit 600 GS. PA is going in the right direction to increase the player base but they’ve really still got a long way to go. Hopefully they pay attention to videos like these. Thanks man.

[@Despond]

What the fuck are you on about? You don't even play then if you're 600GS. The game fast-forwards you now 281, has a zone that's in the top 5% zone earner that only requires season gear. So ignorant, any FURTHER and they'll just be mailing you pen BS with a code.

[@luzion5719]

I had completed seasons, and within 2 months reached 272 kutum, 327 dp. Had one pot piece too. i decided to quit while grinding the second pot piece. the amount of time to gear up in the game is too much for me. I can not live in an Mmo, especially when the "frontier" time has long since passed. it feels like i just have another job. and trying to convince friends to play was sad af. Unless you start at the same time, good luck talking them into catching up to you after a couple of months. I dont think them changing how easy it is to gear up would change anything. because there IS so little at end game. the fun of the game is the journey to end game, that is very clear. Class balance, metas, FOTM aside, the game is decent. its just a lot of time that youll never get back, doing things others have done, and streamlined all the fun out of. Just my opinion.

[@papakrug3362]

I think it's both a combination of how long it takes to get gear, and the utter lack of endgame. You can pvp way before 720gs. Even if you get to the endgame pvp of 720gs, that's it. It's just pvp, there is no endgame content aside from pvp. That's a huge issue (imo), like why would you play the game for hours on end grinding for gear when you can't really enjoy the fruit of your labor. As I said, pvp is unlocked way before 720gs. So I ask, what do we have for endgame content aside from just the pvp? Other than 300ap running in circle spots, we have nothing.

[@AonyjsViolmlar05]

Correct! i hope PA with the open world they have adding open world dynamic events like in Guild Wars 2 is going to be awesome. I love grinding but the grind in BDO is different killing the same mobs until you get a decent gear just to move in a different spot to grind the same mob is giving me a headache. Grinding in Guild Wars 2 is a whole new level it doesn't even feel im grinding.

[@blackcrow3718]

@@All0Mighty0Power realy depends on what your prefer for endgame. I prefer open world pvp/pking and world bosses guilds or party's can fight over. to my the redundant raiding after hiting max lvl sounds boring to my.

[@AonyjsViolmlar05]

@@blackcrow3718 gw2 have that too world boss, massive WvWvW pvp. With lots of other side stuff to do that doesn't feel like a second job.

[@blackcrow3718]

@@AonyjsViolmlar05 you cant realy fight against other players for world bosses inside gw2 or pk players inside the normal maps.

[@AonyjsViolmlar05]

@@blackcrow3718 yes but pk in bdo doesn't even have a purpose but to kill low gear players then those low gear players can't fight back then quit the game.

[@jakechang5458]

I been playing this game for quite sometime now (5yrs +), causally, 2-3 hours per day. The game is a grind. Finally hit 685gs with double pen bs =)

[@kurokiji4729]

I feel like the enhance mechanics they implemented on black desert mobile are superior to the ones on the main game, it is still rng based but the fact that you can increase the odds by simply sinking more enhance materials (black stones, etc) it would be great if they implement something similar on the main game imo.

[@Tonbizzle]

I only played the mobile game for like a week or two, but the moment they showed me that upgrade system I was wondering why the hell this wasn't the way it is in BDO proper.

[@gabmax1013]

@@Tonbizzle basically to cater to the mobile audience. They want the mobile community money. If they gave them a cash grab game. No one would play it on mobile.

[@imPansy]

Update: Debo prices are capped at 126b, mb. Let me know in the comments how high on #copium you gotta be to justify spending 500 - a thooousand hours grinding

[@JamieR]

BiceptimusPrime would like to disagree that enhancing evens out. Just saying!

[@askarn94]

hmm.. so you are saying that PA could remove our account at any moment but how is that any different from other MMORPGs? Mainstream is a lie and will always be a lie, its just another method to control those who cant think for themselves (but ofc this is only my opinion) Well ofc i can understand why talking about "whats Mainstream" and where it might come from, like if you ever enter an empty MMO that you think is fun but its not so fun to play alone well what can you say to hopefully fill that empty MMO with other players? you can tell a lie and trick other players into that game right? xD (im just talking complete bullshit) Sorry bruhh nice video anyways love your content!

[@imPansy]

@@askarn94 The only difference is you're wasting over a thousand hours and getting high on copium

[@askarn94]

@@imPansy Fair Enough

[@jeremywright9511]

Growing up I did play a lot of MMOs that required nonstop grinding, Ragnarok online, runescape, maple story (dear god that game was next level monster grinding), Mabinogi (those who have played this know the life skill grind was brutal way back when) and more. Now I casually play black desert but I truly feel that grind no longer sells. The ironic aspect is that many people complain about there not being enough to progress towards in their mmo (as the genre becomes more story oriented) yet dislike having to work towards a long term goal for hundreds of hours. Goal/gear grinding can be quite relaxing if well paced and ultimately I feel MMOs should be about chipping away at immense goals day by day. The satisfaction is unrivaled once you obtain what you've worked for.

[@ecerra1200]

I agree with this. Ive always loved grinding mechanics. Was always an amazing feel to hit a 99 in rs and it was always rewarding. I feel like where bdo fails is that the grind itself doesnt always lead to success. Kills the motivation to grind and in return makes it no longer fun.

[@plaguedoctor5657]

I keep going back to MapleStory. Nothing else scratched the itch. FFXIV comes close tho

[@Danteezy]

Black desert is a sandbox mmo so trying to get to endgame in it is like saying I’m trying to get to the endgame in gta. That’s why they say enjoy the journey it’s a marathon not a race.

[@lrscans7957]

I played BDO for 2 years for 1 hour or less a day and still have 642gs in game it's slow progress but never get burnout and still happy to play the game ❤️ the combat is make me keep playing this game 🔥

[@Casterial]

^^^^^^ Exactly same lol

[@taylon5200]

Kinda sucks that there's nothing to use it on outside of PvP, where who spent the most is the winner and not who has the most skill 🥲 I'm salty. Game had the most potential to overtake gaming as we know it but they threw it away on grindfest lack of content pay to win.

[@HookahOtaku]

The biggest reason why they wont ever become mainstream is literally the gear progression, you cannot expect NA players to accept gear loss/progression loss. The fact that gear and equipment can break is the biggest dealbreaker for the casual player. Overlooking the mandatory world pvp , and cash shop, the whole matter of gear breaking on fail enhancing is complete BS to the T. Even Lost Ark does NOT break your gear on failure. BDO will Never succeed beyond the current status until the gearing is adjusted and made more forgiving. I couldnt grind hundreds to thousands of hours just to see my progression poof out of existence.

[@davidpowers9178]

Pretty much what happened to me i was like fk it im going to FF14.

[@Malddev]

do you realize you can use crons to make sure your gear doesn't downgrade... and with the guarantee pen jetina upgrades it's not that hard to get to say 650 GS.

[@taylon5200]

@@davidpowers9178 welcome to the game that respects your time(: game is amazing. It's definitely not bdo in the combat sense 😅 but it's definitely a gold standard of how an MMO should operate. If you're on primal, I'll add you! I'm on behemoth, but I can add anyone on the primal data center

[@brucealmighty5881]

@@Malddev so you have to get something else to make it so your gear won't break... Which is already baseline in like every other MMO Sounds terrible

[@RMX1988]

​@@brucealmighty5881 simply you can grind for money, saving what u need for the next upgrade, at the same time you can try enchant the accessories u dropped, rift acc etc , so you will progress cuz you saving silver and sometime you can got carried by enchant saving some hrs of grind. If accessories blows up, you still progress cuz the Money you are saving. If you try to progress only trying to enchant, well.... good luck homie

[@PigeonLyfe]

Great video. I used to play and got tired after grinding mindless with nothing to show but 16 failed tet accessory attempts after hitting soft cap back in the day. You're definitely right about the shift to make it easier to obtain end game. That's one reason I came back. Lots of guaranteed pens, bunch of freebies, and more importantly, the low barrier of entry to make serious cash. The grind is still bad like you said, but if they keep this direction of appealing to the new players while still validating end game players, lots of good will come of it.

[@SkywalkFPV]

That sounds like the right mindset and interpretation, how to approach BDO.. It has indeed becoming better and offers more quality of life for everyone not only vets..

[@ImYourWorstNightmare7]

well u still have to grind a bit even for the guaranteed pens (its fair i guess and not a big problem) but its not even the end game gear anymore, its more like old stuff, even if u get all the "free pens" u wont do much anymore, they give us the gear that no one uses anymore and u still be weak compared to most. for me the problem is not the grinding, its all the grinding u do for nothing just for a small chance to succeed, so 90% of times u just waste ur time and when u succeed its not even a reward anymore its just a relief

[@auisthia]

This is always what I feel and realize every time I sell part of my pve/pvp gear for life skill gears xd. Gearing up is not the problem of the game cause it is what defines bdo other than it's combat. The problem of the game are the lack of content other than pve because most of other contents are not rewarding e.g. pvp stuff and other lifeskilling contents. World, rift and guild bosses should be a lot harder but more rewarding.. If only you can gear up by doing what you like and feel rewarding and efficient this game will be a lot better.

[@pixelcraze7609]

I hope they add more group content to bdo like more dungeons to party up and go do with boss mechanics like in your other typical mmos. They are just so fun to do with friends

[@ARCHERxKBCx]

what In needed to hear, you are just working a part time job, something clicked in my head, I will look for an actual part time job and start making more real money, thanks my dude

[@TheDarkAztek]

Great vid. Def. enjoying the game, just started this week, and to say that this numbers didn't scare me off, seems encouraging. Loving your content =)

[@imPansy]

Good stuff man, keep having fun!

[@Shiggy_]

Ya the new player experience right now are better than they’ve ever been. Even from just a year ago when this vid came out. Have fun, and remember to check out life skilling. Some of the most fun life skilling out there. Even if you just afk fish during the event rn. It’s pretty satisfying.

[@Valrok1870]

I tried the grind, but gave up around 590/600 mark, seeing that 730 so close but still SEVEN MONTHS of work away, it broke me. So, I went back to the games I enjoyed. Left a lot of good friends behind, wish I could go and tell them why I left but the guild leader kicks anyone who is absent for a month or more, this was two years ago. The game is truly stunning, the level of depth and realism behind it all is impressive! For anyone who thinks otherwise, just look up how to trade. Look up for yourself, the level of complexity TRADING takes, and that is one of like, 15 or so lifeskills you can level. Farming, hunting, mining, voyaging, trading, flower picking, mob-killing, cooking, alchemy, hell even the auction house. And speaking of house, you can own homes for restocks on energy or crafting last minute items on your journey, so yes, I have spent the time. Over 1300 hours, and yet I was still very far off. BDO is a very, very special game and I wish it had more people looking into it, but I cannot in good faith say it is for everyone. WoW fell too hard for me to think about returning, so I had to find a new niche, Dark Souls and the FromSoft games as a whole but damn do I wish to go back and just get lost in Pearl Abyss' fantastical world. Oh! Forgot to mention back in the lifeskills for outsiders still thinking there isn't too much depth. Breeding mounts...look up a video about that stuff too, you'll be lost even after rewatching it for sure! And yes, those mounts ARE tied to ANOTHER lifeskill, Training. Sorry for the long rant but, this video made the memories flood back and damn does it hurt knowing how much I loved the world, until it crashed down on me with the cold number of hours to jump just a little bit higher

[@kaen4299]

I don't get why you mention the complexity so often as if you have to prove something, it's not the depth or complexity that's lacking nor have i seen anyone saying that it is.

[@irena2781]

I am playing BDO since 2017, and I can tell u- You're sooooo right xD I also don't have patience to grind hours and hours like some people do. With my 690 GS I found myself decent geared. And yes I am doing Nw's and that is something I rlyyy enjoy. People can also make a lot of moneys this day's doing lifeskilling. For a long time I tried quite a lot different MMO's but on end BDO is only one I rly stick around. Everyone can find something they enjoy in the game because of the complexity of the game, and that is what I love about BDO. I rly enjoyed your video, keep a good work man! :)))

[@rogue2791]

I've quit bdo for a year but returned recently. It's still so addicting. I loved the qol updates and new player experience. I decided to take it slower this time and not to get burned out.

[@Kaosmoz]

Good video, very informative. One question though, *new player here*, how are you supposed to gear up to base level for a non-seasonal character? Is it best "not to" and only use seasons for alts gearing or is there a good way to catch-up?

[@imPansy]

Basically get naru gear, grind and buy gear from marketplace. But no reason not to do seasonal

[@rossaryrose9337]

Started bdo less than 2 months ago, never fel pressure to go nolife on it, log in when i want, do what i want, so far no objection about it, loving it. Got to give due where it is, PA is on point with updates,patches ect. I can see where is cash shop money going. THey are makin it casual friendly too

[@imPansy]

Hey as long as pvp isn't something you care about, it's a great hamster wheel!

[@rossaryrose9337]

@@imPansy And im good hamster XD

[@InSaiyan-Shinobi]

Still the best combat system mmo I’ve played will always leave a mark for me in mmo combat just waiting patiently for a clone with less rng that’s it really. Throne and liberty looks dope so waiting to try that out.

[@Cathrynne]

I really love BDO and currently still playing it. However, I really wish PA consider revamping the whole gear and weapon system in this game to be much more friendly...

[@SkywalkFPV]

It is just high risk, high reward game for highrollers.. There tough gear and weapon system, is actually why many people are attracted to it.. They are making sure it is the true ultimate unlimited sandpark grindfest that should have no end!.. it is not supposed to be there for everyone to be equal, that would make the base game die in a heartbeat.. If you want to be equal, they have nice balanced pvp modes - is the only reason to be equal.. The base game is the pve and silver farm, where sailing and fishing for example should be your forte..

[@strimbalas33]

im having fun grinding for 1k hrs, thanks 🙃

[@clownie1313]

Im still new with this game playing for almost 2 month...currently on 233ap/290dp. Still faaaaar away from end game..and i love it... i build my char from step to step becoming more and more stronger then open a new and new spot and item. its so friking good when i reach my objective. My currently objective is reaching 260 ap and if i follow my plan carefully i will reach it at the end of this month. The key to enjoy this game is make ur own pace and try not chasing people. I grind when i want and if im bored i can do lifeskilling. Its not for people who love chasing end game like a racecar...just like my friend who stop playing coz he tried to chasing the other guildmates..... Just enjoy the progress...

[@Malddev]

i have played BDO on ps4 for the last 3 years, since it hit ps4, and there has only been a 6 month period that i wasn't playing. i currently have just over 17,000 hours into the game, mostly afk tbh to keep my 75 artisan worker empire going 24/7, and i just hit 660 gear score. i did zero grinding for a long time and just made silver off life skilling. it has paid off that my shai makes it on the leaderboard of every server i go on for life skill rankings. i have a Volante and a Valor Carrack and lead a 25-30 person guild. i thoroughly enjoy this game and how much endless content it has to offer. definitely the most detailed and complicated game i've ever played to date.

[@quickesttiger5603]

Hey man,thanks for video, could you share the link where I could see those built in video :) thanks

[@eliz2709]

I think not getting to the end game fast is good thing, i get very bored when i put like 200hours to game and i have max gear and all. and u dont need to just grind all the time u have lot of other things to do in this game

[@dajoiner23]

I feel like you kept calling soft cap "imo" because it's kinda hard to place a marker on BDO soft cap/hard cap. For arguments sake just call full Pen Tuvala soft cap, 670 mid cap, and 730 hard cap. Reason I say this is because there are still a LOT of people that won't ever pass Tuvala due to "the journey".

[@ej879]

exactly, all my characters are stuck at 670 and I've played BDO for a long time. but the time it takes to full gear 1 character takes years of your life grinding that is IF your RNG is lucky. even upgrading to PEN Tuvala makes me hate the game imagine doing it on actual BOSS Gear and I've tried a thousand times, it never gets easier one after the other, infact it gets harder and harder.

[@XOUL]

They can't just make gearing too easy since it's the main "content" of their game. The only way they could do that, in my opinion, is to shift the game's goal away from grinding and toward other aspects of the game, such as creating an engaging story and lore, world-building and exploration, overhauling lifeskilling to make it less tedious, better social interactions and social content, and so on.

[@prostobaka]

you can always draw a new set "super black star", redistribute the drop among the spots and let the tops farm it, and for beginners, reduce the cost of getting a BS set, do it smoothly and introduce seasonality where, for example, every 3-5 months you need to farm the next set and it's really hard in getting and the point, but the ustavshiy former tops should be made easily farmed within a couple of months. And if they also attach new activities to this that are available for owners of a fast set and solo players, then it’s generally super.

[@michaelpilgrim9893]

So very true, endgame gearing is too much when it takes over a few months (most of the time its longer) to get a few points in GS increase. That is including a good passive money making ways.

[@errantpursuits4249]

Love your content, champ. Thanks for all your hard work.

[@FrodoGoloson]

Why do you prefer a PEN Kutum with lvl 7 of caphras and not a TET Blackstar?

[@shaneH1]

Thanks for this breakdown, it's very helpful and eye opening. I got my first "true" realization of what end game looks like just 2 days ago from a video on YT... I watched this guy blow up 74 TET boss acc to make 8 PEN acc. The amount of silver involved in the end game chase is way, way more than I thought by orders of magnitude.

[@wooddie]

which spot exactly net you around 1bil+ an hour? since you keep mentioning it..

[@xrainmank01]

This was a very unique and a different kind of video, really loved it

[@TheBeelzeboss]

Is c7 Kutum a better idea than duo/tri godeye sub weapon?

[@blablabla7741]

I mean, the mmo genre wont be mainstream ever cuz they are meant to make you live in the game. If it bothers you to invest so much time in the game, maybe this genre is not for you. If you try to please the more casual players by making it easier for them to get to the endgame, you will lose the players who are willing to play many hours because they will have nothing else to do afterwards. I've played 2.5k hours and I still don't reach the endgame because I don't burn myself out grinding and I enjoy the game doing other activities.

[@FFeeLiT]

The way u think is just wrong and destroys a game and its players obviously. In real skillbased games players worked for years on their skill and teamplay and it would never end, because the game was so complex and hard to master. Like in world of warcraft for example. We used to play arenas for years and years getting better urself and as a team. And reach the highest arena rankings and fight the best teams. And anybody who saw ur arena ranking on ur character, just knew ur a fucking bad ass they cant mess with. But in bdo every brainless and mindless fat burger eating lifeless shit has much higher gear than u because he simply was willing to waste his lifetime to grind in a circle for thousands of hours, will beat the crap out of you. Thats not respectable at all. He is still a much worse player than u, but he has the game advantage. Thats just the wrong way a game should work. Ppl should gain respect based on their skill and not on wasting his worthless life and picking a broken class. But bdo players wont understand i think. Its like an eagle describing to a sloth, how it feels to fly.

[@j0obn255]

The point was that bdo is not mainstream in the genre itself, bdo has a really low player count for an mmo , and the reason is known, WOW, FF14 and Lost Ark, are much more populated. Also new fantasy world games that are not mmos get in many mmo players, like genshin impact, wich has a good farm longevity because its not too long nor too short, like 3 months of farm to max 1 character.(almosy perfect artifacts) u need only a couple of maxed characters, half maxed needs like a month. NO 10 HOURS A DAY, just 2-3 hours because resin limits daily farm Bdo is really bad at feeling worth it when u spend hours farming and u dont feel rewarded or satisfied. UNDERSTAND THIS, majority of playerbase in ANY game are casual players, if ur systems need soo many efficency in doing things, the gap between casuals and not casuals is much bigger than other games and mmos. The moment u watch YT guides u are not a casual anymore bro. So casual are almost never gonna like bdo.

[@daboss6614]

@@j0obn255 lmao lost arks dead now, bots are literally more than half the player base

[@shutup1037]

@@daboss6614 ded? It's still 100-300k playing. There lot of bots but the actual playerbase is still bigger than bdo. People quitting because the shit gearing system

[@brucealmighty5881]

@@daboss6614 it's not but cope harder lol

[@lmoral222]

People should realize BDO's motto of: "The Adventure Never Ends". The "adventure", in my eyes, is being the grind. In terms of gearing, other than fringe players like the extremely RNG carried, no-lifers, and/or extreme whales, players will spend seemingly forever to reach high gear scores. By high, I mean 720+ GS. This is by design, and if my former statement is true, BDO has done exactly that. The game will never be mainstream. Because mainstream players, basically, can't hack it. Be it instant gratification, low attention span, or whatever, I would bet the majority of players can't hack the grind, time, effort, and self-motivated goal-chasing that BDO high GS requires, thus, the big reason BDO will always be niche. But keep in mind how less relevant the need for high GS in today's game is and that need seems to be lowering as time goes on. New players in Tuvala can make bank with low gear and the plethora of gear capped PvP like T1's and 2/3 sieges being gear capped, even things like Marni's Realm and Home Channels to avoid OWPvP altogether while grinding all contributes to the diminishing demand of gear in today's game. This wasn't always the case when we had only two good grind zones and less ways to avoid PvP, even on non-Arsha channels. New players have it so easy now to progress, but again, The Adventure Never Ends. It's a grind game at heart, and in that respect, it does a great job at being just that -- a grinder. 710 GS, long time 6-ish player here. I love the fact that there's still a long road ahead of me. Keeps me engaged and provides a game that I can continue playing, doing what's comfortable for me, to set and achieve my gear goals. It's a game that you intertwine into your overall lifestyle. Now that I'm 35 years old and have a 9-5 job as an IT tech and do real estate on the side, no kids, GF, but not married, it's perfect. AFK lets me progress while being away, bartering lets me semi-AFK while I work, Sunday node wars are always fun (when there's a fight), and Arsha grinding lets me grind and PvP at the same time. And hey, if I want to P2W, I can P2W, and it doesn't affect anyone aside from my personal gameplay, and doesn't give me an overwhelming advantage, considering I only PvP with people around my gear score. Perfect game for me. That being said, Arena of Solar when.

[@Tanuklee]

❤ 100%

[@Venant91182]

Its actually a bad design that everything is sandwiched into such a narrow range at the high end, at least from a PvE perspective. For the vast majority of the game, pve is extremely fluid, everything dies quickly and its about optimizing moving from pack to pack in a rotation. Then at high end spots things completely change, they have to put in gimmicky mechanics, you feel less powerful even though your GS is much higher. The only good mechanic they had for high end spots were the old elvia weapons, which could potentially scale you effectiveness by you getting more uptime on them per hour.

[@lmoral222]

​@@All0Mighty0Power If someone has a gambling addiction that they spend $10K a month on a video game, there's bigger problems at hand with that person. They should be in a actual casino and gamble with IRL money than a video game. Almost every MMO "sells solutions". You can buy level boosts and story skips in Final Fantasy. Same thing in WoW, $60 and you're max level. It's well known that BDO's enhancing system is gambling -- You literally didn't read a thing I wrote because you can bypass this by grinding (BDO is a grinder game) and you don't even need high GS these days. The only thing you need high GS for is to compete with the top 5% of players. BDO is a grinder. You won't like it if you don't like grinding. But even then, the game doesn't change much in end-game -- the only thing that really changes is you can PvP with the top % of players.

[@lmoral222]

@@Venant91182 End-game PvE requires you to know your class. Instead of one-shotting mobs with random abilities, you actually need to know how to use your class and use actually good add-ons. Can't randomly press buttons and things die, to be efficient, you need to know your class. Subjective. I prefer high-end spots like Elvia Hexe Sanctuary and Gyfin UG much more than Pollies or Centaurs. I play Sorc and I don't fall asleep in these spots compared to one-shot spot snoozefest, but that's just me.

[@donglee7189]

I agree with all your points. I just recently hit 62 and my gear is pretty trash. and looking into gearing up and calculating the grind really is discouraging. I'm at a crossroads...should I grind it out? is it worth it? or should I just not...

[@shutup1037]

Just not playing

[@Alex-cl9dp]

Can you pls link the gear progresion stuff?

[@zomp_lennox_btw8936]

Where r the best spots to grind at with pen tuvala and what server + buffs do i need to max out money per hour? (just started playing two weeks ago)

[@rizzorepulsive7704]

You can go grind centuars on seasonal and make bank, works best with mobile/fast classes. Don't worry that much about min maxing in the beginning just enjoy yourself, learn new systems, go to different spots. You'll want to grind a little bit at as many places as you can to increase your ecology buff which gives your account permanent drop rate chance(up to +30% I think). Play through the quest lines, experiment with life skills, explore the map. If you start off trying to min max you'll go crazy.

[@Xerathiel]

I haven't really grinded since 2019 and am still playing it. T1 nodewars, trial chars is all I need. PvE is for whenever you feel like it. "Endgame" starts at lvl 1. PvP content can be enjoyed very very early.

[@reaudimills7947]

Do you have a Centuars guide (console player here)?

[@Daevic10]

Was grinding for a pen dimtree but eventually just got bored of the constant grinding. Tried to vary the things i could do in the game but the thought of never getting to endgame without no lifing for 4-6 months dosent sit well with me :(

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

People dont get 1 important thing about bdo, Youre NOT SUPOSED TO GET MAX GEAR Your gear worth shuld Max at about 300 Bill Everythink beyond that is to give people a goal to work towards, nothing more. Becours lets be honest, when you reichen Max gear... what do you do now???

[@aoullaperzahouwi8284]

This video is a godsend, I'm a new player to bdo who just graduated from seasonal and traded my tuvala with boss gear. after a full month of being overwhelmed by the game. I'm sitting on a 240 ap and 300 dp. It was fun at the start when i played levelling up and doing quests, but now, after the graduation it's just grinding the horses in the desert. I don't think that I'll continue, I'll just to try to get close to the soft cap, so i can solo the pve content, I'm not looking into pvp because it seems that it need a lot of time that i can't afford to waste.

[@SkywalkFPV]

You did great graduation season to play the base game that is only exactly about solo the pve and lifeskill content and having fun while there! For pvp there is just arena of solare and fully balanced pvp modes (you do not need gear for that).. Doing pvp in open world is nothing to grind for, you will never beat the trolls who kill weak players there once a while, no big deal.. (consider them just like a heavy aggro mob that got you when standing still) there is nothing on the line.. Its not like you lose your inventory if you die off season to player, that would be a whole other story.. And if they kill you 5 times it gives you the option to turn them red (anti troll mechanic) and they become a real bounty for everyone to kill on sight for showing there wrong behavior.. Anyway no time needs to be wasted but can always be more efficient, that's all..

[@justkite2139]

Man this kinda hurst me, i have around 5k hours on bdo almost Bis life skill gear (had) 1 day decided to tap it failed it all dropped the game still miss it but there is no way im going back to that. 5k hours of work down the drain in a mere 17 minutes.

[@imPansy]

Lifeskillers are exempt from this video. we are master race. But yeah, imagine blowing up 20b a pop T_T. Rough man

[@justkite2139]

Also i belive Weight, bag space should be account wide not carather only.....

[@KingJerbear]

I will say that you can acquire top tier (not full PEN) lifeskill gear in a couple weeks of playing. Hunting can make you a ton of money right now, and if you're into grinding you can have Tuvala season gear and make a LOT of money compared to even a year ago. If you ever wanted to come back, now is a good time. Just have to not compare to your old gear, think of it as a new adventure. If you're over it I understand, but I think there's a lot of fun to be had if you start a new journey, hopefully one without gear roulette lol.

[@Rocityman]

Can't you cron that gear? Tbh if you just yolo tapped all your gear and failed that's your fault. The game tells you the success chance. Be more responsible.

[@justkite2139]

@@Rocityman you can not sadly.

[@bloodwolf9428]

A casual player here playing for around 5 years.. I always had a degree a of fun and because I play so casually and f2p I never really burnt out however its always been a gear check situation. I've always had less gear than my opponents so node wars and siege wars always resulted in low kills and high deaths.. Everytime I wanted to quit I tapped a pen or something valuable then I kept on playing. I finally reached the new softcap at 673gs and now 680gs after some rng luck. Now after 5 years I started having fun in pvp with some gear. For the amount of effort (not time) I put in I have way more gear than I should have so I am fortunate. With the new capped content the last 2 years with the reward system in siege I honestly had way more fun..Capped siege and now AOS was truly some of the best content we have. I could enjoy pvp whilst working on my gear and still use it in Open world, Arsha and RBF

[@gsdota]

Great video. I loved bdo, played for several thousand hours. I don't play anymore because the progression system is just too painful. Do I miss bdo? Yes. Would I ever go back to it? No, at least not in it's current state. If they somehow implemented what you said, "6 months to hard cap" and maybe made a new hard cap with each story expansion, I would be in love. Is that going to happen with BDO? I think not. The community within is already so balls deep that it would anger too many, and to gamble the existing community in hopes to attract new people is a risk that BDO is not willing to take in my eyes. My hope is that with what pearl abyss knows now, they make a new game with a new community and a more balanced progression system, this is possible. Let's make this new game, mainstream. Grab a huge audience and change the mmo scene. PA are definitely the ones to do it, and if BDO was this from the get go, I truly feel that it would be the biggest mmo in the world

[@PrsT_Here]

Such a nice video. The one more thing is also that 1000 hours is not about whole game, its about only grinding. It's like you logs in game, not checking your auction, not making some money from alchemy or trying to learn your class in pvp, it's only about grinding. So actual time you will spend in game to reach this level of gear comes from 1000 to infinite, if you're not grinding at least 2-4 hours per day in top-tier spots using top-tier class. I pretty like that they made Centaurus such profitable, that even newbies can start grind lots of money, but its still about only killing mobs, not about getting deeper into pvp or peaceful jobs

[@FoulFoxTV]

I agree, I have been playing for 3 years and haven't broken past TET. I hate the grind bullshit even for the T9 I spent way too much time on...

[@davidbrodshaug9668]

After reaching 660 gs, I stopped the hardcore grinding, and picked up the torch i left in the dirt with lifeskilling. Mainly because I have been missing a Tycoon type game. So that's how I'm playing BDO right now. That in my opinion is the true beauty of BDO, play like you want, make sure you're having fun. cause it truly is all about the journey and not the destination. You just have to figure out how/what the journey is for you. Great vid Pansy :)

[@SkywalkFPV]

That is well said, it takes some time for people to realize or not at all - to fully understand the non linear endeavor this game truly offers and that there is no end to achieve XD

[@diogorafael3563]

thank you for saying it, is hard as f bring friends to bdo, "too complicate" and "there's only grinding" is what i hear everytime.

[@dexfanai8999]

We are not talking about playing 4 hours a day, we are talking about the actual grinding for 4 hours a day

[@spliffzombonie]

play the game at your own pace. I'm almost 300 ap with 380 dp. I grind once or twice a week. Watch out for really good events.

[@dexfanai8999]

@@spliffzombonie Maybe you are one of the lucky ones. Out of 20TETs, I get only 1 PEN, and thats about normal chance. And grinding once or twice a week is way too less than enough to get those TET gears. I played solo F2P for 2and a half years.. I KNOW

[@spliffzombonie]

​@@dexfanai8999 My guy. I'm far from lucky. Been playing since 2018 (back when grunils and liverto was best armor/weapon lol) and never got a garmoth heart. While my guildies who are new got two in a month with 2 pen BS in a year. Enhancing is a lot easier now. You don't even need to tap pen armors now, just do the quest, patiently. My best 'luck' is tapping PEN bs with crons that I accumulated from events. (not so lucky with J hammers). SIlvers are easy now. Can easily get to around 1+B in 1-2 grinds.

[@dexfanai8999]

@@spliffzombonie Here's an easy way to prove whose right or wrong. Make new character(new AC) get to lvl 61, Tuvala will be your best gear yet. Get all the Buffs you can (including from events) then grind. COUNT how much you get PER an HOUR. (Can easily get to around 1+B in 1-2 grinds.

[@spliffzombonie]

@@dexfanai8999 You missed the part where I said "Play the game at your own pace". If you can't get around 1b in 1-2 grinds. That's more likely knowledge and/or skill issue. You just need to get good instead of complaining.

[@dante44]

as an intermediate player myself what is the gear you would need for the hardest PVE mobs? not PVP just pve

[@TaqSoto]

All I've ever done in this game is play seasons. The leveling process is pretty fun for me. Learning the class and what not. After that, when I see the absolutely ridiculous amount of time you need to spend playing this game to accomplish the smallest thing, I can't help but drop it. BDO does not respect your time. One of my favorite things about ffxiv is that it respects your time. Haven't played in months? No problem. You can gear up in a few days and jump into the most recent content. Want to try a new class, but it's not max level? You can level up in a couple hours. There are too many good games out there to spend 7k hrs on just one. The only thing BDO has going for it is the combat and the world, which is why it's so frustrating that it's like this. There's a great mmo in there, but the never ending grind and the p2progress aspects kill it for me.

[@agmrecords9359]

I do a bit of grinding spend a lot of time Life Skilling these days but at the end of the day i can just spend the whole weekend just living in the game doing i have not got a clue but i must be doing something, i don't worry about my stats, yeah i would love 720gs and full Manos but i am just having fun playing and i think there are a lot of players doing the same otherwise its just going to burn you out, gear will come just enjoy yourself along the way, oh i main Mystic as well and would not have it any other way lol

[@mantheilounaw7649]

Why can't i equip my chaos gear set ? I'm a returnee to the game but I'm so lost as of now.. Also, anyone have a guild i can join ?

[@leonardvillanueva8379]

bdo is like bad habbit, You know its bad for you but you keep coming back for it

[@cherishhaze]

All of this is the reason why, as a new player, I'm enjoying more making new characters and slap Narchillan gear on them and grind some of the good spots for money until I can buy gear. Mind that Narchillan gives you around 170AP and with some PRI/DUO accessories (got those as daily rewards) you can easily reach 200AP and 300DP. Grinding spots until 240 AP are doable if stacking all buffs on AP, Crit and Accuracy. Now my main character is sitting at 540GS because I didn't play that much during season, can't find the will to grind on it and gear it up more, but if I can earn some silver while trying out different classes I'm all in.

[@volzod1199]

I'm coming up on 2,400 hours in BDO. My main is 602 gs. I spent the first couple years playing alts, so I have every class at 61 (my family fame is as high as it can go), but I only recently started trying to push my gear a bit. Funny fact, I didn't grind at all for the first couple years, so I just sat on all the stuff I was getting, and STILL have 500+ hours of loot scrolls I had saved up from that time.. Calculating how much time and silver it would cost to get to 700+ gs just makes me laugh when I consider how many hours I already have in it. I don't mind so much. I enjoy the game because there is a million things to do and work on, always something to keep me engaged. I'm personally a big fan of the regular flow of new classes to the game. As an altoholic, it keeps the game fresh constantly.

[@Jeffren92]

Imo the hours you put in arent necessarily the issue, cause if the game is fun id say you can play it for 7-9 hours daily, the thing is the grind or the silver making methods bdo offers arent fun.. its impossible or very unlikely that someone truly enjoys doing 1 combo of skills for hours to achieve gear in a game, it gets to a point its exhausting. Also theres no goal in reaching endgame, theres no reward in doing that. Even if you tell me that you can now do Big D PvP i dont care cause theres also no point in doing it, so my take is that bdo players burn their ass just to have the satisfaction of hitting certain gear objectivss that eventually will be pointless cause its a gearing simulator

[@alexwashington8785]

If they added a pvp server where your max GS was determined by the area you're in and you actually got resources from player kills, it would make grinding less of a chore. That way OG player's could still have their high end grind spots, while newer players would have a chance to enjoy some fair PvP without a years worth of repetitive prep gameplay.

[@holdonL]

im making 250kk in hour on cents, what am I doing wrong? full pen tuvala lahn, agris and yellow scroll with all attack buffs available. tier 3 pets

[@Betogunner22]

Never played BdO .I bought it but never started yet to be working so much. Not thinking about end game, just do get the platinum on ps5 how many hours would you guess will take? Just have fun and platinum the game. PvE only

[@immunetoevil2324]

All I can say is Amen. Honestly, I don't even see my self ever getting max power. I take breaks to keep my enjoyment from it. But I have put in 6 months so far and I am barely pushing 270 ap.

[@lawrencedator3065]

i hope they make 4 jetina pen accessory quest just to fill in those necklace, belt, and earing slots and they can just make vanilla accessories from it like orc ring, basilisk and another tungrad earing i think thats reasonable right?

[@rabbitonarock9060]

If you enjoy the gameplay and enjoy grinding you can reach "soft-cap" in seven or eight months. Less if you're a bit sweaty. If you don't enjoy grinding then end-game gear progression isn't really for you and you should consider other activities, like life-skilling, exploration/questing, gear-capped node wars, or the new gear-capped arena system. I started a fresh account in january and got invited to a random life-skilling guild. I immensely enjoy the combat system and I can grind non-stop if I have the time for it. I just hit 680 gs, and at this point I am massively outgearing everyone in the guild. My point is, they don't care at all. They're focusing on horses, gathering, bartering, weekend atoraxxion runs, and in the months I've been in the guild I have heard mentions of gear less than a handful of times. Not everyone plays for the same reasons. BDO has a lot more activities than grinding mobs.

[@j0obn255]

Its an mmo, the secodary activities are as i said "secondary" and are not gonna bri g in players as a fixed system would, not even close. U are talking about the minority, the game has a really small player count. AND GUESS WHAT "casual" players are the big majority in every damn game, ergo they are almost the backbone, and if the gap between efficency and not is soo big casuals are almost never gonna like bdo. And what do casual players do? Kill mobs and do the main type of farm, some do secondary stuff but its not whats gonna keep them in in the first place, if the game is broken, no reason to stay. A game can be hard and difficult but still have many casual players because its GOOD and works, an example is elden ring.

[@shutup1037]

No, there isnt much activity

[@mrsneedleton3254]

I found my niche in playing new classes when seasons release, loving the experience, no pressure

[@sithisshadow6466]

I love this game but never felt I could ever compete in a pvp scenario. Which this game is ment for. The skill difference is hard enough to learn. But maybe that's just me expecting to be able to play the entire game and make a difference. Anyway your vid sums up nicely why I still play GW2 and not BDO.

[@imPansy]

I hear ya man. Thanks

[@ItsSwitchXD]

What’s gw2 and is it on console

[@wolfsongcg6497]

MMORPGs were originally about the journey. And prior to WoW obsessing over streamlining every last aspect of them, that's how players approached them. They were the computer analog to table-top, pen and paper role play sessions. On-going, long-term adventures. Not short-burst races to a finish line. It's players weened on single-player games - where you're supposed to "beat them", and doing so as fast as possible is a badge of honor - flooding into the MMO space and bringing that mentality with them. They did it to themselves, and then forced everyone else down with them, as developers - ever chasing the money - started changing the games to cater to them. It was shown in a variety of ways... When MMOs first blew up into the mainstream (thanks to WoW - because Warcraft was a huge franchise with a massive built-in fanbase), I saw a variety of the following from those people: 1. Many would go into forums complaining that MMORPGs didn't have an end, insisting it was designed that way just to keep you playing and giving them money. They completely missed, or rejected the idea that MMORPGs are *not* "one and done" experiences, like single-player games; that the experience is *supposed* to continue. 2. Players new to the genre unironically believed WoW was the first MMORPG and any other similar game was a crappy rip-off - including games that came years before, and directly inspired it. I corrected more people on this notion than I can even recount. They didn't understand that MMORPGs, their playstyle, pacing, etc... was already well-established years before Blizzard decided to create one. 3. They would care more about "the fastest way to level to cap" or "what the best class is to level up fast" - before they'd even created their first character - than they would what content was awaiting them. 4. They started to value their own experiences not based on their own adventures and achievements, but by comparing it to those who started weeks or months before them. They somehow decided this was "unfair" and started demanding things be made faster and easier so they could "catch up" to the people who'd been playing longer, in less time. Pure jealousy. 5. They wanted everything faster and easier, but with more and greater rewards. 6. They wouldn't do any content that they deemed "a waste of time" because it didn't level them up fast enough and/or give "worthwhile rewards". Simply enjoying the content never occurred to them. 7. They started making up lame excuses for making everything faster, like "I have a job and responsibilities. I don't have the time I used to to play these games, but it's unfair that I can't keep up with people who have more time"... always ignoring the fact that MMORPGs had ALWAYS been mostly played by folks with a job and other responsibilities. The only difference is, the first people to populate MMORPGs were actually in it for the adventure. They didn't care how long it took. Leveling up was something that happened while you were having fun doing content. Level cap would be there when ever they reached it. It wasn't a competition. It wasn't a race. 8. They pushed, continuously, for years, for the genre to be made more and more and more soloable so they wouldn't have to play with other people. Folks, like myself, who warned about going down that route were called "chicken littles" and "paranoid". I, and people like me, were told "we only want it a little bit more soloable. We're not trying to make the whole game soloable. Raids can never be soloable. Group content can never be soloable. We just want some stuff we can solo while waiting for groups. Stop being ridiculous". Fast-forward to the present, and the "standard" MMORPG experience has become almost entirely soloable. Not too long ago, there was a thread on a forum where people seriously argued that raids should be soloable, and requiring groups is unfair. Those of us cautioning against pushing for more soloability weren't so "paranoid" or "ridiculous" after all - things have gone exactly as we'd warned they would. 9. Once upon a time, a "productive gaming session" (which is an oxymoron in itself) was logging in, gathering up some folks into a party, and spending the next few hours delving some dungeons or working on some quests (actual quests, not the "kill x of y" style chores they've devolved to - again, thanks to the impatience of players complaining that quests "took too long"), or do some crafting, or whatever. Leveling up or getting some grand reward wasn't considered "mandatory". Now? I've seen people complaining and calling the game "too slow and grindy" if they're not getting at least 5 or more levels in a two hour session. MMO players have been reduced to trained rats, hitting a lever over and over to get a treat. The impatience of players has ruined this genre. It's easy to blame "big bad developers", except the devs and publishers are just chasing what the players want to make the most money. If the players rejected all the shiny instant gratification and cash shop crap, and demanded more emphasis on making the journey more exciting and rewarding... that's the direction devs would have gone in. MMO players are their own worst enemies. Their constant hurry to do everything, and unrelenting demand for faster, easier and more frequent gratification, with no thought to the long-term repercussions, has destroyed what was once a deep and enjoyable genre. For me, seeing a game where the adventure is on-going and getting "to the end" takes a long time is actually exciting. I don't *want* to reach the end that fast... and so many MMOs these days are designed to push you there as fast as possible, so you can start the end-game grind, hoping you'll find the cash shop more appealing. But here we are, with the genre having become nothing but a bunch of lame, uninspired, cookie-cutter cash grabs. And now, many people who spent years pushing them more and more in this direction are complaining that they've become "too cookie-cutter and boring". Well imagine that. They got exactly what they asked for, and now they don't like it. Again, MMO players are their own worst enemies. I only wish I could find all the people who insulted me and told me I was paranoid and ridiculous when I warned of the direction they were pushing the genre almost 20 years ago. A good "I f'ing told you so" is in order.

[@kingenvy7291]

Bdo is my favorite game, only because I had 3 years worth of time put into it, but coming back after getting falsely banned was probably one of the worst experiences ive gone through. Being so much weaker then everyone was off putting and grinding back to were I used to be took months to do, I used seasons to help speed up the grind and it helped but unfortunately I couldn't go through the grind again so I dropped it 😕

[@wonderingjibril1210]

I can't help but agree with everything in this, as someone who started on Xbox way back I believe in 2018, to now playing it on PC it's been one heck of a journey. From amazing character customizations and even getting all of the armors off the shop. Yes I am someone who spends quite a bit of money on the game especially on my archer. In leveling up most of my characters to level 59 and 61. I can say that it sucks grinding so much, now if you're someone who has the time and the energy and the patience to grind about 5 or 6 hours a day hats off to you. But if you're someone who works and has tons of responsibilities this type of game really does cut into your time to stay current. I can tell you I haven't been current with the rest of the community for quite some time even with all improvements they made to help you get pen gear. I know the point of MMOs is to grind and take your time. But this has been hell on earth. To the point that even I have stopped grinding so much and just accepted that if I need a rare drop or something or I want to meet that 3,000 enemy quota that we need I'm just going to have to take my time and play casually. Just got into the point that I have even forgotten what endgame is for BDO. Even doing their new expansion in the winter region that they just had. It's just been very very challenging I just wish it was a better way to progress our armor so we can get to end game content and actually feel like we're achieving something. Rather than spending hours at a time grinding and four spots because we can't go to the other spots because we are too under geared.

[@MsFrostitute]

Ive been playing since console release and I have stopped playing probably 5 different times. I get on, grind to 56-58, do main story then get sick of the life wasting grind before I even get into it or even learn what to do lol.. All my income is literally from just having a few characters, idk what else to do and its a horrible feeling because everyone seems mean and unwilling to help

[@justaperson2693]

I just have fun with bdo, I love warriors with greatsword and bdo has the perfect warrior in my mind, my only issue besides grinding is cosmetics if I could just look fool fashion wise without spending 30$ which I don't have. Im probably gonna probably keep making seasonal characters for the entire time I play bdo until some other game makes a warrior class near or exactly like bdo's

[@bumbum9831]

the grind is not as painful, the most painful part is the backwards progression, like having a small chance of upgrading is fine, but the punishment for failure is just too much, and this is coming from a guy who is a failure to his parents, and even they didn't punish me this hard. like even in gambling, if you brought $50k to a cassino, the worst thing that could happen is that you gonna lose $50k, but in bdo, if you bring 10B silver into an enhancing session, you can not only lose 10B but also some pieces of gears that's worth hundreds of hours of grinding, in essence, you bring 10B you can lose 50B or even 100B just from enhancing, this shit is worse than a damn cassino.

[@Volsky69]

100% true

[@Volsky69]

this lvl drop is worst thing on this game...

[@timit2thelimit]

Love your content, Pansy. Out of curiosity, have you ever thought about playing on a private server?

[@david21289]

Played Ragnarok online, WoW and other mmo shenanigans before, got my lessons. Log in to BDO just to goof around, I'm not trying to reach certain score or milestone, just playing for the sake of playing. That way I won't burn out, and the game serve its true original purpose, to make the player have fun.

[@geezy12310]

Yeah, bro I just grinded trees after taking a year break. 1 hour in. Went from 5% to 7( lv 61 btw). Like bdo is my favorite game but the grind here makes other games more exciting to play.

[@tristramemerge]

I feel you man,, your face says it all. Hello PA try to understand to one issue and that's "TIME" people also want to be high gear and grind eats all the time.

[@nissan5026]

Man I'm the only one of my friends that stuck with this game only to get to base line gs and a carrack on the side. Honestly if it was brought to average mmo grind I think they'd give it another shot and I would play it more seriously. To put it into perspective I have bordering 5k hours in this game, 2k in warframe, 1.5k in destiny, 1k in ff14, 700 in ESO, and 400 in OG PSO2 but among all of those I have reached/beaten the endgame in all but BDO. Edit: I do like the idea of BDO becoming more mainstream, all of my irl gamer friends avoid it like the plague because of the hopeless grind. I came back this week because I heard of Arena of Solare and have been liking it although I wish they'd fix desync.

[@Omen09]

There is always that one question If they are hiding the endgame behind the years of grind Is there no endgame past the grind Or is the grind the endgame?

[@imPansy]

This is a Korean grind game, so we do the same act throughout the duration of the game - run circles and kill mobs. End game for bdo is getting to a competitive gear score to pvp. At 680-690 GS you can do everything pve on the game but still get face planted by some players with 720+ GS. That’s basically the jist of it

[@Omen09]

ye, my take is more like it's the question every mmo has to ask itself bdo went with the long end game grind so there is something to do, to have some goal i don't know which is better approach, but, back then it was a big problem ( i mean mmorpg in general), players leaving because there is nothing to do, or they feel they have nothing to do after grid Getting some grinding to add to endgame content like normal pvp, big pvp(gvg)etc is one answer And i don't think they can really cut the grind to get more players, cause others, who like to invest they time will not like it and quit The player count may stay the same, or go higher, but playerbase will be changing seasonally, at least that's how i see it I am getting sad about the state of mmorpg in general, i don't think we can ever get back to the glorious days of mmos, like 15-20 years ago Back then it was epic to have massive scale game at all, and any activities in it were just liike "wow, you can do that in the game" Today there s plenty of games with better things to do, so it's hard to convince new players to come and spent hours, when they have better alternatives, and they won't find out of why we love mmorpgs and the thrill of everything you can do in the endgame Im fairly new to bdo, i played like 2 years ago (idk excatly, before the switch) and left cause of too much grind, especially skill points but seeing things now i started like a week ago and went through season stuff and thinking about staying long, cause i don't think we ll get any game in the genre that s gonna be worth playing for the long run in like next 5 years, and future here looks hopeful

[@3dxspx703]

The brainstormers are still on the 2010ish era mindset were gearing up should take millions of yrs.

[@apatia77]

I have been grinding Red Orcs for like 2000 hours or more now :D and I am still need of upgrades. The grind never ends in BDO.

[@OptimalToast]

I started playing BDO around the time Corsair dropped, I had a good, but very rough, idea of how insane the grind and commitment would be to get to end game gear in a reasonable amount of time so I can hold my own sometimes, that's why I gave up on that idea and just went the Lifeskill route and stuck with Tuv/Narch/Capotia gear. If I had my mind set on PvP, etc. I would of moved on by now, not sure if I could ever catch up with progression without giving it more time than I have free.

[@SkywalkFPV]

And that is exactly how you should approach this game and how it it designed, many do not seem to understand.. If you want pvp there are nice 'balanced' pvp modes.. the base game is just about pve and farming silver, having a great time on your life skill - with some danger build in, to encounter a troll player off season that might kill you once a while - no big deal..

[@user-xo2og8kv1o]

i wouldnt really say bdo "stood the test of time". the playerbase is a fraction of what it was. lets be honest, most ppl still playing, play bc theyre addicted or bc they invested so much and dont want it to be "wasted". if the metric for "standing the test of time", is that a mmo isnt shut down yet, there are plenty off mmos that stood the test of time, which is contradictory to what you said.

[@Venant91182]

All these estimates of silver/hr are absurdly overexaggerated and rely on valuing items like Mass of Pure Magic and Shards that cannot be immediately converted to silver. If you are FTP and don't regularly have a value pack running, it is skewed even more. You also don't have an infinite supply of loot scrolls, and most people who over exaggerate silver/hr are assuming you run perma 200% loot scroll and have infinite Agris points.

[@StormKing402]

bdo is tekken with a 1000 hour grind wall

[@aquicktake]

I got the 5000 hour reward last year - and I'm only 277/267/309 ... problem is that most of those hours were spent years ago when soft was 250ap... RIP

[@LuCKyG931]

to be honest thats what killed it for me. i was about 600hours in. quit shortly after nova release,as far as i remember. a lot happened in my life and summer and so on. now i started it back up. well. first i cant even remember half of the important stuff because it is so much in this game. i was like wtf is this item for, wait how i feed my workers, where did i store pet food. what houses did i even own and in wich town i stored what. skill rotation what was that. skill points all reset at some point, thats a problem after such long pause. and a hundred things more. did the new questline for global storage and a pen. then i went to the grind spot i liked back then. because i did not remember my buff setup correctly nor perfect skill roatation i died 3 times in 2 minutes. even with a new pen boss gear i did not had back then. then i kind of remembered how much effort and knowlage this game takes to kinda be efficient, even then you have to dedicate half your free time to it to get anywhere. back then i had no job. it was the perfect game. it kinda felt like a job. so much to do, so much to learn. but to be honest. i now have a decent paying job, also a hobby that takes up my summer free time. as much as i want to play this game, i just cant. the effort is not worth it. the rewards come so slow. i could dedicate a couple hundred hours through the winter, but it does not feel worth it. i can play escape from tarkov, or call of duty, or diablo, or PoE, borderlands, the division 2, hell even league of legends. my mechanics would suck at the beginning, i would need a couple guides to get back in. but after 50-100 hours in one of these games as example i would be back to my former glory and even made progress. in BDO 50-100 hours would be"now i know what im doing again, but i have to dedicate the next 300hours to kinda make a bit of progress. and still after the winter i would not be like end endgame gear.