Why 'Bloody' Mary Wasn't All Bad | Mary I of England

Queen Mary I of England is most famous for being the eldest child who wasn't a boy of Henry VIII, and for burning around 300 Protestants at the stake. But is this all there is to her? Was she really worse than her siblings? This video looks at the early life of Mary, through to her unprecedented rule as England's first queen regnant, to see whether she really was as bloody as her nickname suggests...
If you like my videos, consider sponsoring me via Patreon here! You can watch selected videos before they go on KZbin, take part in exclusive polls, and even create fan requests! / historysforgottenpeople
Sources and Related Books:
Mary Tudor: The First Queen by Linda Porter
amzn.to/3EAqphk
Children of England: The Heirs of King Henry VIII 1547-1558 by Alison Weir
amzn.to/3hKgVrP
Mary Tudor: England's First Queen by Professor Anna Whitelock
amzn.to/3EYTsw9
The above are affiliate links, and by buying a book, you're helping support this channel. Thank you! 🙌
For my images and footage, thanks to:
Videvo
Pixabay
pixabay.com/users/josephphack...
Wikimedia Commons, especially:
Happy Bean Photography
Michael Coppins
Ydigresse
Geoff Welding
www.wyrdlight.com Antony McCallum
For my music, thanks to:
Renaissance by Audionautix, which is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Artist: audionautix.com/

[@BarbaraJV1]

You can't help but feel empathy for Mary. Declared illegitimate by her own father, cruelty from her step-mother, Anne Boleyn, cruelly separated from her beloved mother and married to a man who didn't like her and desperate for a child of her own. It's a sad story all round.

[@michaelflick1177]

Bloody Mary deserves no sympathy whatsoever. She was a disgusting murderess, who had a compulsive obsessive disorder against Protestants. Shame on her.

[@fabianagois1021]

Couldnt agree more!

[@ElizabethF2222]

Although Mary horribly burned people in the interest of religion, I think Mary has always gotten more of a bad rap than she deserves. Elizabeth I executed almost as many Catholics and priests in horrible ways as Mary did Protestants, but. Elizabeth is "Gloriana" and Mary is "Bloody Mary?" Seems a bit unfair to me, considering how cruelly Mary was treated by her own father, Henry and Anne Boleyn. She also ruled England in her own right, and before that, she managed her vast estates in East Anglia by herself. Pretty impressive for the time if you ask me.

[@katiebecker7683]

@@ElizabethF2222 And Henry VIII executed more people than the both of them. If anybody deserved the title "Bloody", it was him. Mary and Elizabeth, like many women including Anne, were a product of the times, expectations, and upbringing.

[@ElizabethF2222]

@@katiebecker7683 Agreed. Great comment!

[@sarahpersonalexcellenceguide]

The diplomacy with which you present Mary’s story speaks volumes about you. How easy it’s been for me to judge Queen Mary and discount her rulership because of how she’s portrayed by others. You give Mary a heart which helps people like myself feel compassion for a misunderstood Queen.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, that really means a lot! 😊 My tendency to want to find alternative points of view for the caricatures we have given people in history has led me also to do one about her sister Elizabeth's less-liked traits, which hasn't been viewed in the same light, but it does come from the same place of wanting to remember these were ordinary human beings in extraordinary positions. (I will do another Elizabeth I video one day to set out her good points, too!)

[@TuckerSP2011]

Those were such terrible times to live through. I always feel such pity for Queen Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary. Henry VIII was a very cruel person who destroyed so many lives and created incredible chaos in his nation. I can't even imagine what it was like to be a citizen of England during this time. Queen Mary had no blueprint to follow, and her personal losses must have just crushed her. Thank you for your sensitivity in presenting such a complex person who lived in complex and disturbing times.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 And I know I seemed less sympathetic towards Elizabeth in the video I did about her, but honestly, as you say, I feel for both her and Mary. They were both victims of their father's decisions.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@sqseq1237 She certainly did! And it's true that Henry VIII, when younger, was described as quite charming. But the pair never quite matched perfectly (he was extroverted and enjoyed his sports and hunting, Catherine was more introverted when able, and preferred books), but of course that wasn't important for a royal marriage. His personality changed at some point, and a lot of debate is around an injury he sustained while jousting. Similar modern cases of a blow to the end created a switch in personality. Add in his fear of not having a male heir as the dynasty was so new, the pain from his various conditions like gout, and it created a very cruel person who became less empathetic as time went on. That's the best guess of most historians, anyway!

[@marbles9176]

Henry did everything a typical deadbeat dad would do, he just got away with it because he was king. As a former nanny it breaks my heart thinking what Mary and Elizabeths caretakers were dealing with trying to raise HIS kids, since henry regularly cut his child support payments and rotated staff. The poor kids did not get a stable and secure upbringing

[@sarahhague4911]

So true, Henry rarely seemed to have their best interests at heart! Duke Phillip of Bavaria adored Mary and she felt the same, but Henry wouldn't let them marry and sent Phillip back to Bavaria! Mary was heartbroken over this..how cruel of her father!😢

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

Queen Mary I is my favorite Tudor. Her own father was a nightmare and she had to endure all kinds of trauma before she ascended to the throne, including the betrayal of poor Lady Jane Grey's faction when they attempted to overthrow her rightful claim to the throne.

[@redadmiralofvalyria867]

She also killed her cousin to marry Philip of Spain 🇪🇸

[@lfgifu296]

@@redadmiralofvalyria867…did you watch the video?💀

[@robinwren7040]

Some people are good at reading written words. Some people are good at appreciating history and few are good at both. Thank you for being perfect at portraying both with a voice that clarifies every part of these journeys respectfully.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you very much! That's very kind of you to say so. 😊 I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

[@bec9696]

Perfectly said Robin. She does such a brilliant job with these videos for the reasons you said.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@bec9696 I'm blushing over here! Thank you so much. 😊

[@user-ju8ew6km5u]

When you spoke about marriage as woman's duty in Catholic point, you mentioned that "Catharine insisted that she was Henry's wife after their divorce". But it wasn't a divorce. Henry VIII had annulled their marriage. There is a big difference: Catherine became not ex-queen, but just a princess of Wales. This fact I guess hurt her even more.

[@katiebecker7683]

Princess of Wales is what her title would have been as widow of Arthur had Henry not married her.

[@lyralivingstonabbott]

Regarding Cranmer, another factor in Mary's refusal to pardon him may have been his involvement in the annulment of her parents' marriage. It was definitely a painful point for Mary and she did go out of her way to legitimize the marriage of her parents once she was queen.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's absolutely true - just her mother, Mary never accepted the 'annulment' of her parent's marriage, and you're right in that she did everything she could in her reign to legitimise it once more (which of course, also legitimised her in the process).

[@AnthonyFelixCano]

This has become one of my favorite channels now

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much! I'm pleased you're enjoying it. 😊

[@BeveC21E]

My thoughts as well! The tellings are not only thorough, but entertaining with some bits not realized prior to being heard here, at least to my knowledge! Surprises! Don't you just love them?😄

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Same!

[@theresareynolds3133]

Henry was so mentally cruel to her when she was so very young, she was used as an object not the precious daughter she was. It was Henry that mentally abused her by not allowing her to see her mother, it was Henry and Anne that poisoned her mind against the Protestants, had Mary been allowed to practice the Catholic religion and see her mother, she could have been a different person. Harry is to blame for everything that poor Mary had to go through and what she had become.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I agree, I do think (as I said at the end of the video) that all of Henry's children and wives were his victims, in one way or another. There's a lot to be said for a person's childhood creating the adult, and I think Mary was absolutely a product of hers - as was her sister, Elizabeth.

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Exactly!

[@louislamonte334]

Compared to the blood on the hands of her father Henry VIII & her sister Elizabeth I Mary Tudor was Mary Poppins.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Well, I'll play Devil's Advocate and say I think she and Elizabeth were on a par (she reigned for longer than Mary, so direct comparisons are difficult), but I absolutely agree that Henry was definitely the one who really deserves the epithet 'Bloody'.

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Exactly!

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

💯

[@adriannespring8598]

Definitely compared to Henry!! Ironically, Edward 6th fully on the way to being a full-blown nut job himself that would've made anything she ever did look like puppy play.

[@savagedarksider2147]

Philip II of Spain pretty much abandoned her when he realized she couldn't give him A heir.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Certainly when conflict started kicking off in other parts of Spanish lands, Philip wasted no time in heading off without a backward glance.

[@cristyflaherty4902]

She did do bad things(even though like you said, it wasn't really different from her father and sister) but when you look at her story she was really more of a victim than monster and she should have at least gotten her last wish to be buried next to her mother.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I agree, as a minimum, her final wishes could have been carried out. It's surprising Philip didn't really say anything, but of course, he was attempting to propose marriage to Elizabeth.

[@carolyn3172]

Saying someone who cooked people alive for nothing more than their religious beliefs is a victim not a monster, is like saying Hitler wasn't so bad. We should not lose sight of the horror and pain she inflicted on innocent people and the terror she caused to the English people and it should not be excused because of time she lived in (it was cruel even by the standards of the day) or any supposed trauma in her life.

[@usagi18]

It still can be done, can't it?

[@usagi18]

@@carolyn3172 by your logic, most kings back in the day were monsters

[@cassychesser]

@@carolyn3172 I think the point is more that her acts were no different than most monarchs of her time, and for centuries afterwards, and not so much to diminish the pain of being burned alive. Henry, Elizabeth, and countless monarchs before and after did similar or worse things, yet she gets smeared as Bloody Mary.

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Imagine being away from your mother because of your father and being considered illegitimate by the king...your own father...

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Not only that but many other more things...

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It must have been pretty traumatic. I know royal children didn't see their parents regularly at the time, that wasn't the done thing, but if they were ill it was perfectly normal to go visit them (unless it was highly contagious). Not to mention they became very close through letters during the time Mary couldn't see her mother, so they probably ended up closer than they would have otherwise.

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

I don't believe that Henry VIII truly believed that his daughter Mary was illegitimate, anymore than Henry believed in all of the lies against Anne Boleyn that ended with her execution. Henry, imo, conveniently 'believed' in all of this nonsense only to suit his selfish agendas. He was a wicked narcissist too and very dangerous with all of his power. He should have been Magna Cartaed imo!

[@adriannespring8598]

He was absolutely horrendous. Right up there with other psychotic manipulators.

[@shamarunger5908]

Loving these videos!! Filling in some fun unknown details for me! Thanks for doing it :)

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

No problem, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊

[@mattymatthews7269]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople your manager oration I Mexico. Damn autocorrect!!!

[@mattymatthews7269]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople your manager oration I Mexico. Damn autocorrect!🤭

[@raumaanking]

Imagine if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard got an annulment and were sent away including the men that were accused with them they were all sent away living in house arrest imagine if both Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were still alive during Mary’s reign what would happen in your opinion if Henry the 8 gave them an annulment and sent them away

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I don't think it would have been too different while Henry VIII was still alive, as they wouldn't be allowed to remarry under house arrest, etc. After his death, I imagine Anne would fight to see Elizabeth again, and Elizabeth would have had someone in her corner, but that might also have made life harder for Mary.

[@ben6217]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Mary probally would have put Anne to death when she became queen or banished her from England.

[@h.j.hatcher6265]

I listen to you on my way to work during the week 😊 your voice is very pleasant and soothing and all the history that you talk about is listened to daily thank you I work for Bee at home adult care and assistance and thank you sometimes clients are difficult and you make my job easier somehow thank you very much from North Carolina Jeffrey Hatcher

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, that's very kind! 😊 I'm happy to help make your day a little easier, I know that's such a difficult job, even if it is rewarding. (I helped care for my nana before she died, and that was hard enough, so everyone who looks after people everyday has my utmost respect).

[@traceybeagle9934]

I have just seen becoming Elizabeth and loved the way Mary was portrayed. It made me look at her a completely different way and understand her more. Even if there may be some fiction in the story line .

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I haven't seen that (yet!), but I love how more books/films/tv shows are now willing to look at historical people as human beings with complex reasons for things they did, and to show more than one side to them. I think it makes the stories come to life much more. 😊

[@ToyyinnAuslander]

I just Subscribed! I thought this was a very balanced narrative and one of the more respectable and less-sensationalised Tudor documentaries I've come across. 👍🏾

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and happy to have you here. 😊

[@patriciatremblay2058]

This is an excellent presentation! I usually avoid documentaries on Mary I as I find the majority of presenters tend to have a noticeable anti-Catholic bias. This was done very well and very balanced. I thank you for that. I even learned a few new details. Blessings! 🇨🇦😊

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much! ☺

[@jonatikaWwe]

Great video! Indeed people usually fail to understand Mary in context and how compared to others, she wasn´t so bloody after all lol Merry Christmas!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video! 😊 Merry Christmas! 🎅

[@PopcornSimulationGaming]

Loved every minute of this history lesson. Merry Christmas to all enjoying 👸

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm pleased you liked it. 😊 Merry Christmas!

[@linibiography]

I don't see Mary as the forgotten Tudor. More people know about her and her life's story than know about her brother, Edward VI. If there is a forgotten Tudor it is him.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Certainly, she herself is not forgotten, but often the parts of her life outside her reign are forgotten. Sometimes I focus on lesser-known people, and sometimes on lesser-known stories of more famous (or infamous!) people.

[@monicacall7532]

Thank you for showing a positive side to Mary I. I feel deep sadness for her because so much of her life was extremely traumatic. The poor woman must’ve had PTSD and depression along with all of her bodily ailments. (Just my own conjecture.) And while burning around 300 Protestant martyrs was a truly horrible thing, her father’s 72,000+ executions during his reign definitely makes the combined and individual number of executions that she, Edward and Elizabeth gave their royal assent to pale in comparison. I personally think that Henry VII and Elizabeth of York would’ve been appalled by their son’s and three grandchildren’s bloody legacy although I think that they would have been thrilled that their dynasty continues to fascinate the world over 500 years later.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think you've summed it up pretty well - their father Henry VIII is also most famous for his six wives, but he was a truly horrible person in personality and to deal with. People do always point out that Mary only reigned for 5 years, so the numbers within that time are a lot - which is a very valid point - but equally, they were disliked, and there's every chance it could have calmed down had she lived longer. She was also queen during natural events which ruined crops, and an economic slump caused by her father and brother respectively. Had Mary lived longer, she would probably have put in places the same measures Elizabeth did to solve these problems later (there's no reason to think otherwise, both women were sensible enough to listen to their advisors when they knew they had to), and we might remember her differently. I think people often mistake it when I try to show a positive side for meaning I'm excusing everything bad someone did. I'm certainly not, and sadly I'm so argumentative in real life I'm sure I might have ended up tied to a stake at some point, had I lived then! But I do think people in history are often remembered only for a few things they did, often without any question of 'why', and I think it's good to remember that everyone starts off as a nice human being for the most part, and things along the way can damage them.

[@monicacall7532]

HFP, the older I grow the more I find that I want explore people, history, politics, religion, etc. from a variety of angles to get a better, possibly more well-rounded view of who they are/were and what actually is happening/has happened. American society’s divisiveness has also driven this need to look beyond the obvious. Living in a one dimensional world where my side, my beliefs, my view of the world and people is the only true and right one, and everyone and everything else in false and evil might make me feel powerful but in the end it turns out to be an extremely limiting and very dangerous way to look at life. Like you I’m sure that I would have been strapped to a ducking stool, jailed, put in an insane asylum, burned at the stake or forced to live apart from “decent” society because I’ve refused to act ladylike (be demur, never join in an interesting conversation, let others do your thinking for me, never question or protest against ideas, rules or treatment that is wrong, never ever let people realize that you’re intelligent and have talents and fascinating interests of your own) all of my life. I was the bane of my mother’s existence because I became a feminist at the age of 12 while she completely fit the above definition of “ladylike”. How grateful I am that women are now encouraged to be themselves and not have to apologize for being “different” from archaic social expectations!

[@c.s.7266]

Had she been treated better she probably would've married and had children..Her father really failed her.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Yes, she had a lot of betrothals when she was younger, and while it was expected some of them would break off, Henry VIII really took the mickey with how many he broke off. If she had married when she was younger, it probably would have avoided a lot of problems later on.

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Indeed

[@marshnn]

Mary and her mother were treated abominabley her father the tyrant Henry V111 . Mary only knew the Catholic faith that she was brought up to practice ..

[@lilykhandker4126]

It's goes back to the point that winners right history Mary was Catholic and was married to the King of Spain (another Catholic) England was becoming a Protestant Country eg Elizabeth 1 and future monarchs

[@LKMNOP]

The reason that Mary finally bent to her father's wishes and signed the document was because after her mother died, Charles, the holy Roman emperor who was her close relative, told her to do so. His control over Henry through having Catherine as a niece and Henry's fear of being invaded by Charles, ended with Catherine's death. So it was to the advantage of Charles to have Mary yield as he could no longer protect her through threats. And also he was in negotiations with Henry as there was always the triangle between the holy Roman empire, France and England in power plays.

[@montrelouisebohon-harris7023]

I watched the Tudor series and even prior to that, I knew so much about European history and especially English history and you can’t help but feel sympathetic and so much empathy for her and her mother. The series alone showed her as a bit of a brat, but I’m not so sure that she was that way as she got older..From the way she originally treated Jane grey & Jane’s husband when she first came to London to take the throne that was supposed to be her inheritance as she was next in line, she did incarcerate Jane and her husband, but she knew Jane was being used by older, ambitious protestant men. Mary did not want to hurt this young girl.& tragically it was this young 9 day queen Jane Grey’s father who was warned by queen Mary two not this behave, and he is misbehavior got him killed, and his daughter and son-in-law killed as well. She was put in a situation being a Catholic, who somehow managed to keep her life all those years to finally get the chance to be on the throne and do what she thought was right for England.

[@bec9696]

I've always felt a lot of respect for Mary. Her "bloody" ways were no different to any other monarch of the era. Setting the stage for Elizabeth I, she did what was best for her country in many ways mostly overlooked - but highlighted in this video. If her head and heart were on a healthier body, history would have been very different. But that could be said about many monarch's.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I agree, I think time might have proven her a good ruler, and the burnings would have stopped, as they were unpopular and she needed the public on her side. I also think Elizabeth did so well not only because of her own intelligence and political understanding, but that she was careful to watch what Mary did first.

[@tayloredwards4968]

Even though she did horrible things. I really can't see her as a monster. She was a victim of her father's cruelty.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

This is how I see her, and Elizabeth and Edward. While the things they did were horrific, they were also fairly normal for the time. It's only when Mary increased the number of burnings that they became openly unpopular (not that I think executions were ever really popular, more part of culture at the time!). All three had very messed-up childhoods.

[@swearenginlawanda]

Here's to never stop learning. I just learned Mary was born in Placentia, so was I. ( a few hundred years later and in SoCA. Lol)

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

To reverse that, I never knew there was a Placentia in California until I googled 'Palace of Placentia' to check the pronunciation! 😊 Lovely when you recognise somewhere from Britain or Europe with the same name, and you wonder if someone from there named the place in the U.S.

[@jeromesullivan4015]

Oh, Mary..lol

[@Catssandra13]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Actually yes, English settlers who lived in the 13 colonies in America named many cities there after places in England. For instance, New York, named after York. There is a long list I found online, many American cities with English names. Even a "New London". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locations_in_the_United_States_with_an_English_name

[@Catssandra13]

I forgot to add that it's called "New England" because it was the original 13 British colonies inhabited by British settlers, with States named after English places - New York, which is also a state, as well as New Hampshire, named after the English county, and New Jersey, etc. Further west in the US you have Native American and Spanish names.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@Catssandra13 That's absolutely true - of course New York was first New Amsterdam, then we sort of pinched it (sadly Britain did that a lot) and changed the name! Sometimes, though, I see a placename the same as one over here, and get very disappointed when I find out it was just the founder's surname. 😂

[@lukew7501]

Loved this video and all the others you have done! Hopefully you keep doing them! 😊

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Certainly planning on doing a lot more. 😊

[@mini-mum253]

Can we bring the Tudors head peaces back in fashion along with the pearls? ❤️

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

They are really pretty, aren't they? Also I feel they're useful for a bad hair day. Just tuck the whole thing in under a pearl-trimmed French cap and veil and get on with it.

[@mini-mum253]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Yass my point exactly ! The whole style is fab!!

[@mini-mum253]

Also I'm obsessed with the necklace of Anne Boleyn, guess what I found it to order! Hugs...

[@usagi18]

Please no... my forehead is weird as hell, my face is manly, and my hair is my only decent looking trait

[@mini-mum253]

@@usagi18 oh well, it's not for everybody I guess😌

[@donovankriasol]

Love the way u make history. Love from México 🇲🇽🙋‍♂️

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. 😊

[@funtimefoxy6136]

From what I've heard and from what people believe, Mary was a competent and efficient ruler, just like Elizabeth. Although she was the shortest reigning Tudor monarch, she was pretty progressive. She brought many changes, such as finding new trade routes with other countries such as Russia, America, France, Spain, the Netherlands, and Sweden, a currency reform, and setting the foundations of Parliament for her religious settlement. Also, she restored and strengthened the Church’s administration, maintained the navy, and reformed the army. Catherine of Aragon perhaps was vindicated when she believed Mary would become a great Queen, despite Henry’s belief that a woman couldn't govern as a man. I think they shouldn't demonise her as history has portrayed her to be and remember her in a far more benevolent light. She reminds me a bit of Queen Anne of Great Britain in a way

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I always think Mary is sadly hampered by only having a short reign - I always wonder, had she lived longer, would it have improved? The mass killing of Protestants was hugely unpopular, so it's likely she would have stopped them, and she was well on the way to introducing several financial and military reforms, as you point out, that Elizabeth later continued.

[@funtimefoxy6136]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Yes many people believe Elizabeth’s reign wouldn’t be successful without Mary’s reforms

[@wednesdayschild3627]

Queen Mary was in a tough place. She had to be ruthless as a woman. I feel like she got screwed with that name because she was a woman. I think she really loved Elizabeth. She left her in the succession.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think while it's tough to really know the truth, she did care for Elizabeth. When they were younger they became quite close when Mary realised how clever she was, and especially after they had both lost their mothers. People often point to how Elizabeth was put in the Tower of London, but it was less than a month before that was commuted to house arrest. Mary was genuinely fearful of how involved Elizabeth was in a plot against her, and it was difficult to let her guard down, even with her sister. But placing her as heir may not have been anything to do with love - Mary had very little choice. Parliament refused to agree to her first choice of the Countess of Lennox, so the only choice left was Elizabeth (stability), or naming someone Parliament didn't want (instability). She was a good enough queen to recognise that stability was necessary over all else, even over her beloved Catholicism, otherwise it might make another Lady Jane Grey situation. And I agree that Mary was in a thankless place, no matter what she did, as there would be men around her (who possibly fancied themselves as better rulers) judging her every move. Elizabeth had it hard too, but also had the benefit of learning from her sister's mistakes.

[@Philip-bk2dm]

I imagine that if rejoining the Roman Church would require returning the large amount of property that was taken from the monasteries and given to Henry's friends there wouldn't be much incentive to leave the Church of England by a lot of powerful families?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Funnily enough, it was one of the few things Mary had to acquiesce on. Even though she officially reversed the religious laws, it was written into the laws that the land now owned by the new rich entrepreneurs didn't have to be returned. I imagine Mary didn't like that very much, but she also needed to keep the richest, most powerful people on her side, as they could easily rebel and raise a force against her, I imagine. Plus the economy wasn't great under her rule, so allowing them to keep making money was probably helpful!

[@Philip-bk2dm]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople There is my answer. Thank you for your reply. And thanks for your excellent videos. As we have seen recently, an economic downturn can pull the rug out from under a well-intentioned leader, while an upswing can seem to justify the policies of a scoundrel. The "fickle finger of Fate"!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@Philip-bk2dm So true! If only we allowed leaders more than a few years to do what they needed to, we might see a different way, but understandably, people want results 'now'. No different a few hundred years ago, I suppose.

[@Shyguy71588]

She seemed like quite an attractive woman. Her latestest portraits show a tired, stressed and unfulfilled person. Hope she is at peace

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think you're right, she definitely wore the stress of her life and short reign on his face (as did Elizabeth, I think). You see it even now with any political leader who goes in looking fresh-faced (doesn't apply to those who don't 😂), they usually come out looking 15 years older at the end of their term!

[@MarilynRB]

Than you for such insightful and informative video. I completely agree with your basic points, thus being Mary was no more bloody than others, and that she, in a large way, paved the path for the success of Elizabeth's reign. Mary's case was a tragic one that as you summarize at the end, was the direct result of her father's own selfish and destructive personal desires. I enjoy listening, watching and reading about the lesser discussed Tudors, particularly Henry VII and Mary I.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much, I'm so pleased you enjoyed it! 😊 Yes, I do think a lot of things could have been avoided if her father had done things differently. Having said that, I think the fight over religion would have still happened, as there was no stopping the momentum of the reformation in Europe.

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

As a Roman Catholic i fully understand the anger and devestation she must've felt when her father married Anne Boleyn and being away from her beloved beautiful mother😕

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

This is it - while we live in a modern world and there are lots of religions (quite rightly!) to follow, in the 16th century, there was really only one, and then Protestantism snuck in. And the intention of Protestantism, of course, was never to allow Henry VIII to marry someone else! So for Mary, 'divorce' simply didn't exist, and it would have been akin to someone finding out their father had committed bigamy, or at least that Anne Boleyn wasn't really married at all. But at the same time, her father - in Mary's eyes, and all of his subjects - Henry had been chosen by God in the divine order of things to be king, and therefore had to be obeyed. I think it's the main reason she and her mother tried to reason Henry's decision with his guilt over marrying an ex-sister-in-law, but of course, we understand that was unlikely to be the case!

[@paultoronto42]

What does being a Roman Catholic have to do with having empathy? Do you really believe your religion puts you in a better place to understand how she must have felt?

[@brittanybeauvais]

@@paultoronto42 I’m not religious, but knowing some of the strict beliefs of Catholicism I would posit that it might grant OP a unique perspective, not on empathy, but how/why Mary would have felt as devastated by the marital events as they unfolded. As someone who is non religious and very familiar with the modern day concept of divorce, I can’t really imagine entirely how Mary would have felt exactly since the concept has always existed in my lifetime. For some devout Catholics, divorce simply isn’t acceptable or an option, so I can’t quite relate to that level of extremism if that makes sense? I can’t presume to know how they intended that statement, but if I had to venture a guess I’d say they might have meant something similar. 🤷‍♀️

[@larisa5656]

After watching this video, it seems that Mary I was a victim of propaganda, much the same as Richard III. Yes, both reigns were fraught with controversies, but those scandals were then posthumously exaggerated in order to make the preceding monarch look better by comparison.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's certainly true, that the victor (or successor) writes the history. I'd wager there isn't a single royal dynasty that hasn't been rife with controversies - the present one in the UK included! I agree on the matter of Richard III, as well. There always seem to be two King Richards, one who was an evil child-murderer, and one who was fair, just and loved by many people, especially in the North. The truth is, as usual, probably somewhere in the middle of all the extremes!

[@ElizabethStone-TolcherJames]

I feel like people should learn about more about mary 1.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think there's a lot about all the Tudors that often goes untaught because there were so many big events during their dynasty. In my humble opinion, it's all the little forgotten details that bring people back to life. 😊

[@patriciadent7151]

I love this channel

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Aw, thank you! It's lovely to know people are enjoying it. 😊

[@ummm4158]

I personally think bloody was suited for her as titel others may have killed more but they also ruled longer and achieved more

[@Lovingitjuju]

I seen a comment about “being white washed” in appearance well I don’t know what these people actually looked like but just like today beauty standards do change. Their beauty standards was much different than today. This was a very good video, Henry remind me of some the men today who want to get rid of their wives for their mistresses. Henry would scare me from getting married as well.

[@redadmiralofvalyria867]

Where talking out a queen who burned pregnant women at the stake sign the warrent that killed her cousin, just to marry a man who wouldn't benefit the nation, and pretty much grew paranoid at the slightest glance As a queen...YES As a person, I honestly pity her. There's a reason modern psychology has held over those in the past cause we know so much more NOWADAYS than back then And I essentially say trauma not only BREAKS you, but molds you as well

[@jm15xy]

Queen Mary I was England's (and Ireland's) first Queen regnant. Quite fitting, I would say, since her maternal grandmother, Isabella of Castile (Regina catholica, potentissima, clementissima, semper augusta) was, in her turn, Spain's first (so far of three, but eventually it will be four) Queen regnant.

[@The84336]

By the way, is it true that when Mary was being forced to sign the document stating that her parents’ marriage was invalid, her father’s agent (I believe it was Francis Bryan) threatened to bash her head against a wall until it was “soft like a boiled apple”? Both The Tudors and Becoming Elizabeth reference this and it feels like they wouldn’t unless it was historically attested.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I must admit, I don't know if that's true, but I've never heard it before - admittedly, I'm not an expert in the Tudor period! I will say that historical TV shows and films often take a lot of liberties with their historical accuracy. Sometimes, you find one person said something incorrectly, or never said it at all, but it becomes attributed to them and then everyone uses it afterwards so it appears as fact - a bit like Marie Antoinette never really saying "Let them eat cake."

[@joshuaowens4011]

its true@@HistorysForgottenPeople

[@joshuaowens4011]

it is in chopauys letter

[@bertrandklermannb2k768]

Thomas Howard was close to the Boleyn at some point.

[@beebeelicious]

If you looked up the treatment that serial killers were subjected to as children it would often be similar to Mary's tbh.

[@kimauthor]

Mary has always been (to me) one of the most complex characters in history. I honestly can't like or hate her (if that makes sense!)

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I know EXACTLY what you mean! I'm the same. Some things about her seem so warm and kind, and yet...she did happily burn a lot of people. Younger Mary I have a lot of sympathy for, and there are times even at the beginning of her reign where she tried to continue that as a ruler (such as trying to find ways to get Lady Jane Grey off the chopping block, although Jane refused them). Often a contrast is made between Mary and Elizabeth I, going either way with the arguments for or against, but the important part to remember is that Elizabeth had the opportunity to see how Mary fared on the throne, whereas Mary was trying to figure out how to be a queen regnant for the first time in her country's history. There were Spanish ambassadors whispering in her ear that she would be killed by a Protestant plot, while her marriage was crumbling away and it became increasingly obvious there would be no heir, and I think also Mary was attempting to rule with an iron fist as her father might have done, the only long-term ruler she really had first-hand experience of. I think it's a combination of personality, the time in which someone lived, and the events that happened to Mary throughout her life. Both she and her sister Elizabeth are very complex people to try and figure out. Elizabeth herself had a very hard time holding her throne against outside forces, and a lot of that was down to personality and skill, but also watching what not to do from her sister.

[@kimauthor]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople that is so true! I think Mary was overshadowed by her half-sister, Elizabeth, but Mary did bring in a lot of reform to England during her rule. I truly sympathise with her and how she was treated after her parents divorced, and I loved how she tried to protect Jane Grey.... she truly is a complex character, and this video truly makes sense of the kind of person she was.

[@martagaines7272]

I was recently thinking she didn't earn her moniker. Ty.

[@stevenscoggins170]

Honestly, if her father had been a remotely decent human being, then Mary's reign might have been far different and much better remembered.

[@jimthorne304]

I think it's worth noting that Mary's return to the church of Rome was popular; people liked 'the old religion' and the reforms under Edward VI were unpopular. Items removed from churches by Edward VI's commissioners 'reappeared' with the return to Rome. Elizabeth avoided doctrinal arguments, and her actions against Catholics were largely driven by the Pope's declaration that she was a heretic, and it was the duty of Catholics to oppose her.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's absolutely right, especially the more rural parts of England, and the North where I am. It was the burnings that were, quite understandably, unpopular! If Mary had not been so worried about securing a marriage (it was, after all, likely to be her last chance as child-bearing years dwindled), and wasn't driven to paranoia about Protestants by the Spanish ambassadors whispering in her ear, perhaps things might have gone differently. Or at least, more moderately. Elizabeth was very sensible in never actually stating 'England is Protestant', but instead treading a fine line between both sides.

[@timberwolf5211]

Not only was Margret Pole a friend of her mother, but she was also her grandmother's first cousin. Margaret Pole was the daughter of Prince George, Duke of Gloucester, King Edward IV's younger brother. Edward's eldest daughter, Elizabeth of York, was Mary's paternal grandmother. But despite being Henry VIII's mother's cousin, it didn't stop Henry from later ordering her to be beheaded. And even though she was supposedly in her 70s, apparently, according to some stories, her advanced years didn't stop Margret from taking off at a run, in the Tower of London, trying to avoid losing her her head to the executor, and chasing after her around the Tower Green. The Countess hadn't actually done anything wrong, but she had a legitimate claim to the English Throne, and despite being a part of the extended Royal family, in Henry's paranoid mind, her and her family were danger to the legitimacy of his own claim. So she had to go!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Absolutely - if anyone had no right to be in the Tower or beheaded in its history, Margaret Pole was the person! When she was told she was to be executed she had no prior warning, either, no discussion of why she was there. Often I've little sympathy for some Tudor royals and nobles, who I often feel at least partially cause their own problems, but Margaret Pole is definitely not amongst them.

[@ashleyleonard8148]

Duke of Clarence actually ^_^ Gloucester was Richard III

[@kristiebrown5808]

My God, her father is/was/will forever be just a horrible, awful, cruel man. Dang.

[@moodylittleowl]

imagine how good of a queen she could have been if the mistreatment didn't poison her character

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think the upbringing of Mary (and Edward, to a lesser extent, and Elizabeth, to a larger extent) is a perfect example of how your environment as a child can change you as an adult. I think there's even a possibility she might have been seen as a 'good' queen, had she lived longer past the economic problems beyond her control in her reign, and if the burnings had stopped.

[@Apollo1989V]

She would have followed her father’s pre split method and still burned Protestants. It is likely that Protestants would have been murdered into extinction in England like the Lollards were if Henry wasn’t so set on getting a male heir. The problems with religion in Europe shows us why there should be no government established religion. On the other hand, having a godless state is not a good move either.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@Apollo1989V I agree with you on the issue of state and religion being a difficult to get right. I think the problem is that if you are going to have a modern country with many religions (and quite rightly so) someone is always going to feel put out if their religion isn't the favoured one. The problem centuries ago is no one really had any (or very little) tolerance for the ideas of others unless it suited their own aims, so they genuinely would believe if they converted someone they would save their souls. Well, I suppose there are still people like that, but it's not the aim of a modern society the way it was then.

[@moodylittleowl]

@@Apollo1989V I don't think she would necessarily resolve to burning - she wasn't deprived of compassion and the numbers of people she executed are waaaay lower than that of her sister or father - she was5 that bloody. If she didn't turn into a raging fanatic things may have been more mellow. in fact - I wouldnt be surprised if she herself took interest in Protestantism if it wasn't for a fact that literally every important Protestant she knew somehow personally made her life awful

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Yeah😔

[@CynNiki]

hate to say it...but mary and elizabeth both deserve each other, but buy henry they were made for each other. as catholicism and protestantism are siblings, so are the queens

[@clairefordzetterstrom9973]

Her father destroyed her life...if i were her i would probably turned out to be like her too...

[@laurasmith14]

Mary truly got the short end of the stick, poor girl! But I must say… That portrait of her as an adult makes her look like the most hideous looking woman in history. I don’t know if it’s the receding hairline, or the somewhat angry look on her face, but it’s certainly a non-flattering portrait at best, and at worst would be if she actually looked just like that! I don’t think any of Henry Viii’s children were particularly good looking for the time, based on their portraits.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

The picture of her when she was younger is much better-looking, but I agree that this one doesn't really do her any favours!

[@veiledrecalcitrance4314]

I don’t know, I mean, I get not comparing Mary and Elizabeth’s reigns due to length, but to say it’s unfair because things happened that were out of Mary’s control is kind of silly, I’m sure that in Elizabeth’s long reign there were things that were not in her control and yet for the most part Elizabeth isn’t remembered as “the bloody”. I’m not saying that Mary isn’t misunderstood or that she was more violent than any other royalty of that time, I’m just saying that it seems like Mary’s emotional strength isn’t what Elizabeth’s was, or maybe she wasn’t as adept at being queen as Elizabeth was, that’s all.

[@paden1865able]

Too bad mental health and its treatment weren't known back then, because this whole damn family could have used intense therapy for their issues.

[@CindyAbrodie]

I can’t believe how the British treat their first Real Queen always make me so sad when they referred to Mary so bad. She did what she could I don’t think that any kid couldn’t have a worst father, she was so unlucky to have that demon man as a father . Elizabeth learned a lot from her. I feel for Mary and I believe she was a deeply hurt woman but even like that she was intelligent and very loyal to his country and her crazy family

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

Had mary given birth to A son, this child would inherited England, Spain,and several more territories.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's a really weird thought, that a huge swathe of Europe (even bigger than the Hapsburg empire ended up as!) would have been under the control of one royal family, and it's likely Spanish would have become the spoken language amongst the elite.

[@lpac9871]

It may be a tad unfair, but being 'Bloody' Mary is probably the most memorable thing about her - Especially as Elizabeth I after her is considered one of the greatest monarchs in English history and a 'Golden Era' (which perhaps has somewhat overshadowed her siblings - not to mention the notoriety of their father Henry VIII) -Sandwiched in between these two - I find that her brother Edward VI is not really talked about that much (obviously people interested and studied in History would talk about and remember Edward and Mary but they can often be overlooked by people that don't ) I think possibly Mary would also be less widely remembered without that catchy sobriquet - 'Bloody Mary' ......it kind of sticks with you 😁

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's a fair point - it certainly is memorable! I think the issue comes when people only remember that, and don't search further. As you say, Edward VI does get overlooked, but the poor lad didn't get much opportunity to do much! The little we know of shows that he possibly would have been as certain of Protestantism as Mary was about Catholicism, so it's interesting to imagine what his rule would have been like.

[@lpac9871]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople - Definitely agree - I think Edward VI was actually such a potentially divergent point of History. He was younger than both his sisters - A male (that would not have been subordinate to his spouse in those days). Had he lived it is probably very likely he would have been married off to a very suitable protestant princess, most likely have had children - I don't think the Stuart dynasty would have ever come into existence (for England) and by that extension the Hanoverians. Would there have been a similar 'Golden age' like under Elizabeth?. It was perhaps the fact that Elizabeth was more religiously tolerant and not a level of zealot like Edward and Mary (and perhaps the way she was shrewd and manipulative and valued more subtle rather than obvious power) that there was this time of stability for things to flourish (and even then there were Catholic plots against her). Edward being more of a protestant zealot and a King, I think would have been more openly hostile (tyrannical) and suppressive to Catholicism - Couple this with the resentment that many had with his Seymour uncles having so much power and influence (from both Catholic and Protestant lords) that the country could have been more unstable. I think there would have been more of a chance of an uprising (maybe with lords of both faiths cooperating in this endeavour, perhaps even getting outside help) - whatever would have happened, as you said - it is fascinating to think what things would have been like had he lived - and how different the present day could be as a consequence.

[@mirandastork5759]

@@lpac9871 I agree with you, I think Edward's reign would have been less stable than under Elizabeth due to his desire to keep Protestantism intact (understandable, as that's all he had ever known!). I wonder if events like the English Civil War would have happened earlier - as I think that was eventually inevitable, as everywhere - and as you say, the Stuarts and Hanovarians may never have held the English throne. And would a union between England and Scotland have taken many more centuries, without James I?

[@marklivingstone3710]

I just love it that Mary 1, Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth 1 are buried in the same area of Westminster Abbey,3 women who hated each other, 1 Protestant and 2 fundamentalist Roman Catholics buried together in an Abbey that is probably the second most important Protestant church in England. I think Anne of Cleeves is also buried there. I’m surprised the place isn’t rent by poltergeist sightings on a nightly basis. 😂

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Their ghosts probably all stay in separate sections and have ghostly courtiers pass on passive aggressive messages for them! 🤣

[@maryfrump7937]

She had a grandfather of mine killed

[@seanochroidheain6687]

Not half as bloody as Lizzy 1

[@lyndamcmullen5506]

❤❤❤

[@gingerr9004]

Anyone else glad to be born in the modern age? We can vote, wear pants and own property all on our own. It’s nice to be thought of as a person and not simply a womb to fill.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think this ALL the time when researching these women. I just think; if only someone had said it was okay to argue back. But of course, unless a queen, I suppose they usually then ended up on the ducking stool.

[@TheLeonhamm]

Yes and no; she packed in quite a number of capital punishments (for crimes against the state, i.e. treason) into a rather short reign; note well, these deaths were not crimes but punishments. So much for meek, mild, kitchen-bound, voiceless women in the pre-feminist era, neither Mary nor Elizabeth were slow in coming forward to deal with those who dared to disagree with them .. especially men. What others would call cruelty, they considered mercy .. and judging by the standards of the time, in fiendish police methods, they were right, any kind of death was a merciful release from any kind of life imprisonment. ;o)

[@EmilyGloeggler7984]

Before she married, I do feel bad for Mary but she did earn the title of a murderous Queen. I feel genuinely sorry for Queen Jane Grey and her husband Guilford, though.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's fair enough - no matter anyone's sympathies, she still killed several people based solely on religion. However, I do think her siblings, including Elizabeth, ought to be viewed the same as they also killed several people. Their father was of course the worst! And yes, I think Jane and Guildford might have had a chance if Mary hadn't had Spanish advisors whispering in her ear and stoking up paranoia. As I mentioned in the video, she really did try everything she could think of to pardon Jane without compromising on religion, the one thing she was focused on. Guildford...she didn't like his father at all, so who knows?

[@EmilyGloeggler7984]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople All of them were brainwashed by forms of false Christianity aka Catholicism, Protestantism, etc, and it ruined her parents, her half siblings and their families, and finally herself. I also feel sorry for most of those innocent people who were murdered by them, though as for the false teachers on all sides, they were condemned by God long before. It’s one of many hard lesson throughout history to learn to beware of false churches, false teachers, false teachings contrary to the full Word of God, false prophets, false prophecies, and how the aforementioned twist the Bible to suit their narratives and in doing so, lead more people to be destroyed - physically and spiritually - in this life and the next.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@EmilyGloeggler7984 I agree that there were a lot of new teachings that could be seen as brainwashing, but it wasn't really any different to what had come before. I think once people accept everyone can have different beliefs and still be good people (something they definitely wouldn't accept back then!) humanity works much better. It's not as if we can prove any of it wrong or right, anyway! ​😊

[@wednesdayschild3627]

Mary tried to get Jane to recant. Mary was smart enough to just sign the document. Mary was smart enough to see. If you get rid of the church, there is no reason to even have a king. Aka the divine right of kings.

[@wednesdayschild3627]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Mary was in a tough spot. It did not matter if she was church if England or not. It was either her or Jane no matter what. She would have always be in danger. Edward was manipulated. I do not think he knew that Mary was going to be killed under Jane.

[@twbishop]

a woman of her times. recall that rulers of catherine of aragon's homeland instigated the inquisition. by contemporary accounts, catherine of aragon was loyal and pious. henry 8 and relatives in spain, not so much. charles 1, and the wars of religion, were likely more bloody.

[@jonatikaWwe]

Yes although protestant´s version of "inquisition" was way worse than the spanish one!

[@TraciPeteyforlife]

Mary made several poor choices. The hersey laws being brought back was wrong. She also let personal hatred over take her. When it came to the Bishop that she burned even after he renounced his faith. Then wanted him to renounce his faith in public and still burn. A very poor choice on her part. The fact she had cancer and couldn't have children. Likely started to drive her insane. If she had just kept to religious tolerance. And not harmed her loyal subjects. She would be better remembered as a better person and Queen.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I absolutely agree - I don't Mary was inherently a bad person, nor started out that way, but you're right in that she definitely made some very bad decisions once taking the throne. And a lot of those were likely fuelled by years of being pushed aside, ignored, rejected, and the religion she associated with her mother (therefore probably a hugely touchy subject) being torn apart.

[@COBO2]

All the Tudors were bloody.

[@jeromesullivan4015]

Compared to Her Father, Her Siblings.. She wasn’t that bad..

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think Henry VIII was certainly the worst Tudor overall, and a lot of people, including his own children, were victims of his reign.

[@janetedwards6236]

Right, she only cooked 200 people alive for nothing more than their religious beliefs. She was a monster even by medieval standards.

[@tsarina24honolulu87]

70000 were killed by Elizabeth over religion. Lets not be too hasty .

[@ToyyinnAuslander]

Have you got any Plantagenet Content?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Not yet, (unless you count the small bit on the Princes in the Tower in my royal ghosts video!) but they're on my list for in the future. 🙂

[@ToyyinnAuslander]

I'll check out Princes in The Tower...but I do hope you're not pinning it on Richard III? I'm ever so convinced it was the far sneakier Henry VII. 😜

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@ToyyinnAuslander I only ever offer up possibilities, never my own opinions! 🤣 Although my money is maybe on Henry Stafford...

[@leeannproctor2966]

Though I don't condone her actions I do understand her logic and have a little sympathy for her.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

This is how I feel about her - the actions of murdering people, no matter who does it (including other members of her family) can't be justified. But it didn't come from a bloodthirsty place, it came from a twisted idea that she was somehow saving people's souls, and it was a belief shared by many others at the time. I also have a lot of sympathy for what she had to go through throughout her life, as you say.

[@nancyhilliard1634]

She was no worse than her father ❤

[@christopherlove3130]

I’m so sorry her Queen Elizabeth, the first she shouldn’t have been locked up by Mary the first

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

She wasn't imprisoned for too long, but it can't have done much for Elizabeth's state of mind, you're right. Mary was very paranoid of any plots against her, and got rather jumpy where her sister was concerned.

[@brittanybeauvais]

It’s worth noting that Elizabeth did the same, actually worse, to Mary Queen of Scots, though. I wouldn’t feel too bad for her, the paranoia in this time wasn’t entirely unwarranted.

[@robertomallan9432]

It wasn’t king Henry viii who made it Protestant it was Edward and Elizabeth who made it Protestant

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

While Protestantism flourished more freely under Edward and Elizabeth, the English Protestant Reformation began in 1534 under Henry VIII when he broke away from Rome. Creating himself as the head of the Church of England, it allowed Protestant ideas to take hold and became part of its new religious doctrine. Although Henry himself was something of a traditionalist and like many aspects of Catholicism, at least two of his wives, Anne Boleyn and Catherine Parr, had a large part in instructing new church doctrine and the path English Protestantism took as a result. He persecuted both radical Catholics and Protestants alike, as he hadn't really created the church for religious ideals, but for political ones, and so while the Church of England was 'Protestant', many of its practices and rituals continued to look very Catholic until later in his rule, eventually changing radically under Edward, then changing back during Mary's reign, then somewhere in the middle under Elizabeth's rule, which is where it pretty much is today.

[@jennastorr4832]

She was not the first queen to role in her own right her cousin Lady Jane Gray was the first. Even if she only reigned for 9 days

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Absolutely right, I have a three-part series on Jane Grey as well. But Mary I was the first queen of England who was actually crowned - I otherwise count Empress Matilda as the first queen! :)

[@VictorVega-oe3yr]

Compared to Protestants ... HELL YES SHE WAS BLOODY ! But compared to her fellow Catholics, she was an amateur.

[@debashrita_2013]

She wasnt bloody her dad was

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Henry VIII was definitely the most bloody Tudor, you're right!

[@debraturner4559]

To be fair all of Phillip II's 4 marriages were political marriages and he seemed to be accepting of his duty. He wasn't unkind and was respectful of his 4 wives.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's true, and I hope it came across that I didn't necessarily think Philip was (I did this video a while ago, so I can't remember exactly what was in it). But I also don't think he had any romantic interest in Mary, and when it was convenient to, Philip found reasons to busy himself elsewhere - especially as it became more and more clear that Mary was unlikely to have a child. But he absolutely respected her, both as a wife and as Queen of England.

[@debraturner4559]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Excellent job on all your videos!

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

​@@debraturner4559 It was reported, Philip truly loved Elizabeth. (his third wife.)

[@tsarina24honolulu87]

Not compared to her grandmother, father or sister. Not by far.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's true, I forgot about her grandmother, she was probably worse than Henry VIII in many ways.

[@samright4661]

I can see why Europe has a dim view of Religion.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It does always seem to get in the way at some point!

[@ammielake]

Mary wanted revenge against anyone she blamed for her unhappiness, she didn't blame her father, the one who was 100% responsible.

[@adamstone5865]

Seems like this series is a bit forgiving

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I wouldn't say 'forgiving', but I try to see another side to figures from the past and be empathetic where I can, yes. Famous figures often become polarised in black and white, and so many things get forgotten out of context, that sometimes it's worth trying to put them back in. There is no forgiving heinous crimes or murdering people, no matter which royal monarch did them, but there's always a story to explain how they got there. No one starts out life as a bloodthirsty schemer.

[@wengercleopatra2150]

Not really but she’s not worthy of a whitewash either. Like most people in history she was just ok.

[@Femster1968]

Bloody Mary burned at the stake one of my multiple great grandfathers. He was an Anglican minister and stood up for his beliefs. I dislike her intensely.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I can totally understand that. Your multiple great-grandfather was a brave man for standing up for what he believed to be right. I'm not an apologist for Mary I (she committed terrible crimes, including burning people as you say), but my points are really that she was no different to the rest of her family, who get a much easier ride through history due to how it was presented after her death, and also that she became the person she was as queen at least in part due to her upbringing.

[@wfcoaker1398]

There isn't a lot of blood when you burn people. At least, that's what they say.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's a fair point! Perhaps they should have rethought their choices for her name.

[@wfcoaker1398]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Flaming Mary means something entirely different, though. Lol

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

@@wfcoaker1398 Oh no! 😂 I think she probably would have preferred 'Bloody Mary' , given that choice.

[@geoffrobinson3390]

Seems a little biased in favour of Mary.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's fair enough. I actually like (if anyone can really like the Tudors!) both Mary and Elizabeth; I think they were both in a difficult position. I also think they, along with their brother, were all victims to their father's whims and changes that had far-reaching consequences he wasn't interested in thinking about. I like to offer up another side to people in these videos. My Elizabeth one looks at why she often was cruel, as the running narrative is usually one of Good Queen Bess - I admire her greatly, but feel history is about balance and like to offer the other side of things. This one is the same, and as Mary is often only 'Bloody Mary', I focussed more on the other parts of her life that can offer a different version of her, so you're right, it may come across as being biased towards her. But really I suppose I'm biased in wanting to show both women as human, rather than one-sided caricatures as many people in history become. 🙂

[@ErnestExner]

Not so much bloody as burney.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's true!

[@kelrogers8480]

Yes, she, was that bloody! Having someone tortured so that their limbs, muscles and tendons are torn and ripped, and thern burning them alive, using green wood, because they want to read the Bible, or don't want to attend mass, is wicked and, yes, bloody!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Indeed, but as Henry VIII, Edward VI, and Elizabeth I also killed, tortured or burned people during their reigns, mostly notably over religion. The question I pose in the video is not whether Mary deserves the name 'Bloody', but whether it should be exclusively for her when that accolade was not given to the rest of her family, and was given to her by Protestant propagandists during Elizabeth's reign. There's no evidence Elizabeth asked for this, although it helped with her Protestant subjects, it probably didn't help with her idea of attempting balance.

[@danre6165]

as if her sister didn’t do the exact same shit but she’s praised and even put up at the cathedral like some saint 🙄

[@okorixeh1604]

@@danre6165part of the issue is that she burned people solely based on religion.Elizabeth executed due to necessity and it was more due to catholic plotters instead of just Catholic in general And by the way we can’t compare Mary with Elizabeth Mary rule for 5 year and Elizabeth rule for 40+ and they have the around the same number of kill counts