Why BMW Williams failed in F1

[@Stoigen86]

I know it's unrelated to Williams but I can't help but bring this up. Does anyone remember BMW's idiotic decision to focus on the 2009 season whilst they had Kubica in the lead of the 2008 championship therefore effectively costing him the title? Still irks me to this day.

[@mursuka80]

And that focus produced a crappy car in 2009. Baffling decision indeed.

[@HanZhang]

BMW had already decided before the season started that they would stop developing the car once they reached their first victory, regardless where they were. I think the last thing they thought was gonna happen was them producing an absolute dud in 2009.

[@nicolasgarcia248]

@@HanZhang still, a very stupid desition

[@romanbaranovichi5375]

Ciaron Smith but but generational talent

[@nicolasgarcia248]

@@ciaronsmith4995 and what happend in 2008?

[@leongt1954]

They tried to blame the drivers for all the DNF Webber 11 and Rosberg 9 in 2006 but as mark webber said frank williams and patrick head wouldn't listen to their drivers and just completeley ignored them except for blaming them for not getting results

[@classicsportclassictiyl8547]

the car showed great promise at the start of the season Rosberg getting fastest lap on his debut, locked out the second row in Malaysia and Webber was running strongly in Australia and Monaco also they had Bridgestone tires where were very effective and good power unit from Cossy but what let them down was a handling problem which effected the car turning into corners and woeful reliability

[@enzoma7253]

Coincides with what Newey wrote in his autobiography, Frank Williams and Patrick Head never listened to or included anyone else in the decision making process, and that's mainly what made Newey leave to team.

[@Niko-he4ji]

@@enzoma7253 i'm reading it at the moment

[@ahogg5960]

And they were flogging Sam Michael trying to get him to be the next Newey. Webber says in his book he was worried about Sam

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

@@ahogg5960 I always used to wonder why he genuinely always looked so stressed all the time.

[@karacop78]

I don't think you can blame them the same way someone could blame for example, Ferrari's strategic mistakes of 2019. They just got into the way of what you described as: "one of the most dominant teams of F1 history". That partnership did not go as planned but it gave us insane high revving BMW power and some great fights starring Mr Juan Pablo.

[@mrdraw2087]

The engine was powerful, but unreliable, especially in 2001-2002. The chassis wasn't very strong, except for their 2003 car, which blew away the competition in the summer of that year. Presumably a real top driver (Alonso or maybe Räikkönen) would have won the championship pretty easily with that car. After 2003 things went downhill rapidly. Possibly they should have changed their driver line-up earlier, as their drivers weren't that impressive. Having said that, it was always going to be difficult to beat the Ferrari Dream Team in those days. BMW re-entered the sport at the worst possible moment it seems.

[@nelauren]

De Apenhoofd That’s Bs. Kimi has a better car at McLaren and he couldn’t even win.

[@sergeantsupreme4395]

@@charliet7686 what does being biased even mean?

[@retsoptihs0]

@@sergeantsupreme4395 Charlie doesn't seem to know too much about F1. Nobody in their right mind would rate Montoya above Alonso. Williams-BMW may have been the best overall package in 2003 and Montoya finished 3rd in the championship. Alonso won two championships in the second fastest car, and was very close in 2012 with a shitheap of a car.

[@aggerktm]

@@charliet7686 Alonso is miles better than Montoya. stay mad, whine all u want, hes one of the best drivers in F1 history. he or Raikkonen wouldve definitely won with BMW Williams

[@RBenjo21]

It arguably should have won the Constructors title in 02 and 03. Spain 2002 is a good example of how poor things got for them: with Barrichello out the team had 2nd and 3rd in the bag but they imploded and lost a truckload of points through their own fault. Or the double engine failure at Montreal where they could have finished 1-2, or certainly 1-3. Or Montoya blowing up from the lead at Monaco.

[@GranDaddo]

Williams listen to me - partner with Cosworth. Start building hybrid cars while it's not too late. Maybe even pitch that cooperation to one of Japanese companies. Partner with big companies that do not have F1 program. Like Ford, maybe Koreans, and make "Clio Williams" type of projects... Hire me :) Imagine if you would help out BAC, Ariel or Morgan... I can put on your desk dozen of ideas.

[@GranDaddo]

To be honest - I forgot about it. I still do not perceive Latifi in my head as F1 driver/family because season not started. Still I would love to help Williams because Frank, Claire & team deserve it.

[@blackshadow7192]

Actually the only times Williams was competitive was when they were backed by their engine suppliers, Renault and BMW. When Renault came back to F1 I was surprised to see them no partnering up with Williams.

[@dylansmit3883]

Don't forget Honda. And they were also competitive in the ground effect era when nearly everyone was using the Cosworth DFV/DFY.

[@djberryhardkore]

Reptilius Maximus Williams need a source of revenue outside of F1

[@LuisTrey]

Ford would never partner with Williams to compete in Formula 1. If Ford was to enter Formula 1 they’d do it as a manufacturer. I don’t believe Cosworth is interested in entering Formula 1 as an engine supplier again. Williams is done for!

[@deadmarch101]

That Bridgestone/Michelin thing just before Monza 2003 really pissed off the 13 year old me and still does today. Monster Montoya had that championship 🤬

[@kingsleyndam]

FIArrari was in full effect a couple of times that season. Yes It also still pisses me off.

[@NicoZF]

Montoya was the virtual champion that year.. still pisses me off also :(

[@SiVlog1989]

Williams had plenty of chances to work properly with BMW, 2003 was rightly referred to as "the one that got away," although it took a few races for the team to understand the car, they were fighting towards the front of the field. Montoya could have won in Australia but for spinning towards the end of the race, losing the lead to Coulthard. In Brazil, he was one of many to aquaplane off at turn 3. In Austria, he could have won, but had to retire due to a mechanical problem. In Canada he blew his chance of a win by spinning at the chicane during the race, having qualified on the front row. In France, had Williams known of the significance at the time, they would have been strategic about Montoya getting ahead of Ralf Schumacher. In Hungary was another missed opportunity, being out qualified by and stuck behind the Jaguar of Mark Webber for the first stint, he had the pace once unleashed but the damage had been done, 18 seconds behind Raikkonen and 34 seconds behind winner Fernando Alonso. Monza of course was another chance that came up a bit short, having the chance to take the lead from Michael Schumacher on lap 1, but ultimately finishing second. Indianapolis was mostly down to his own mistakes, but in hindsight, the decision to put him on full wets, after his drive through penalty and an additional lap on dry tyres due to the rain left him a lap adrift, had he stayed out of trouble and switched to the intermediate tyres at a better moment, maybe he could have been in contention for the title going into Japan. As for Japan, his speed before the engine problem could have made things very interesting in terms of the destiny of the title. Putting it simply, very much a case of what might have been. Especially when the team produced the ambitious yet very ugly Walrus nose initially for the 2004 car, and results suffered as a result and although that year they beat McLaren, both teams were comprehensively beaten by BAR, Renault and Ferrari, leaving Williams 4th and McLaren 5th in the Constructors Championship

[@alexbentley4087]

So, was it Ferrari that narked on the Michelin tyres in 2003?

[@swiftsportcolombia]

Im Colombian 🇨🇴 I think the key was the tires , brigstone was miles ahead of michellin, unfortunately for JPMontoya a king with a 👑 specially on 2003

[@CamaroThings]

BMW had all the pieces but no one to complete the puzzle.

[@grahamhill4113]

Williams not making a bigger effort to retain Adrian Newey is where it all started to go wrong for them. An independent team needs brilliant, forward thinking individuals to keep them in the hunt. Without that they can't keep development pace with the bigger spending works teams.

[@JoeyMe]

Jacques Villeneuve in every other shot :) I like it

[@juliataylor2623]

failure would only describe post BMW - just Maldanados win--- despite Toyota, MORE a case of Ferrari super success

[@erudzitis84]

yep, 2001-2004 BMW Williams was Always fighting for Victories, Williams, McLaren and Ferrari, later Renault was always at top

[@keyboardwarrior327]

2:00 am, the perfect time for me to watch some F1 videos.

[@sesu5604]

Haha def know what ya mean

[@blakehouse172]

5:28 am for me mate lol

[@ropeburn069]

Same

[@aidanvl8681]

scary accurate

[@dingse3_]

Yep 👍🏻

[@GigglingChinchilla]

It seems to me that Williams thinks, the engine supplier should be happy Williams wants them, rather than the engine supplier demanding things off of Williams. Look at how many different engine suppliers Williams has had in the last 10-15 years. (Renault, Mecachrome, BMW, Toyota, Cosworth, Mercedes...)

[@User-nu6km]

williams had toyota engines???

[@GigglingChinchilla]

@@User-nu6km Yes, in 2007 with Wurz and Rosberg.

[@picolasbnf]

Mecachrome engines were Renault engines, tho

[@aggerktm]

@@GigglingChinchilla i think they kept Cosworth engines until like 2010 or 2011 right? still, Williams issue has never been their engine suppliers and nowadays we can confirm that more than ever, even more than during BMW days

[@tyronnezx]

@@User-nu6km Yes and they werent bad either.

[@jamiecf2992]

BMW's part was done. They supplied the most powerful f1 engine for years. But Williams was not able to develop a car at the same level. I remember an interview to Marc Gene , who was test driver of Williams and later Ferrari comparing both cars. He said that the Williams was a brutal engine con a clumsy chassis, tons of power and torque, lack of traction, downforce and grip. It was a rocket on straights and a disaster on turns. Such powerful engine was very demanding for the chassis and at the end even a problem. A tough to drive car. The Ferrari was an excelent although a little bit less powerful engine on a brilliant chassis, efficient and smooth. An easier and more grateful car, much less demanding for the driver and finally and because that, faster.

[@zarategabe]

Ferrari in those days had much more focus as they had a clear #1 in Michael whom they built the car to mostly fit his style and needs. Williams couldn't quite turn Montoya into a clear #1.

[@CP-kb1du]

Who really was Marc Gene besides a cruise driver ...he could not set up a dinner table

[@jamiecf2992]

@@CP-kb1du For sure your opinion is better than a guy who was a F1 driver and tested both cars...

[@pouyan225]

@@zarategabe Michael was more than just a driver to Ferrari. He effectively built the team spirit and brought everyone together. Montoya was brilliant in the car but pretty useless (compared to Michael) outside the car.

[@romanbaranovichi5375]

Pouyan he bought Byrne and Brawn from Benetton (effectively ending their chances of winning a championship for many years) and was an integral part of the Ferrari set up in that era

[@Qsrjeiwjwj]

BMW Williams was not a failure. BMW Williams was a bloody good top team. Ralf Schumacher won his first F1 race with BMW Williams. Juan Pablo Montoya won his first F1 Race with BMW Williams. They led the constructers championship for two races in 2002! Montoya fought for the drivers title in 2003! They finished vice constructers champions twice! In total BMW Williams won 10 races! They achieved 17 poles! They got many fastest laps and podiums, many double podiums. They beat Mclaren-Mercedes a lot, too. BMW Williams was a powerful team.

[@calvinchan8511]

F1 success is determined by driver championships and constructor championships. They won neither, so for a team with that much money and resources they are absolutely a failure.

[@tculig]

That's what I was thinking as well. They got too greedy...

[@kylegoodman5196]

@@calvinchan8511 They ran into the motorsport equivalent of the 90s Chicago Bulls. They were a half factory effort who despite lacking the best Designer in the sport ran at race winning pace for five seasons and was a title threat for four of those seasons. You want to say they choked in 2003, fine. But compared to many similar teams they did far better. Could they have done better per say if BMW bought 50 percent stake in the team after 2005? Maybe. Had say Schumacher, Brawn, and Todt not gotten Ferrari so insanely dominant they probably could have won a title in that window.

[@stevomulzy8300]

Montoya in my eyes would have to be one of the best drivers to not win a championship

[@simracer1256]

Are you nuts?

[@FrontSideBus]

Frank and Patrick running the team like their own hobby shop and going behind Adrians back on all sorts of things, the final straw being the sacking of Damon after which point he upped sticks and went off to design multiple championship winning cars for McLaren and Red Bull.

[@Racingpapers]

2003 montoya had an engine failure in Austria while leading, fuel rig problems imola and USA he was unlucky that season.

[@Sciusciamaccu]

Racing Papers and in Suzuka gearbox problems while he was leading...

[@jamesdyer7960]

Spinning away the win in Melbourne, dropping points in Canada for another spin. Indy he got pinged unfairly for the Rubens clash. But that incredible pass on Schumacher at Nurby was the pass of the season and one of the best of all time.

[@xAeroLyrics]

I wouldn’t say it failed, McLaren Honda is an example of when it failed. Still had a very decent car.

[@iyzyz]

Didn't live up to potential though. Had they still had Newey I think they would've taken the title.

[@jogonz5833]

No

[@jogonz5833]

Blame McLaren's "philosophy" for that

[@renelll5575]

There are different tiers of failure. They were title contenders who didn't win a championship. When Ferrari were toppled it wasn't them who succeeded them it was Renault. Eventually McLaren got back on top and won races late in that decade but Williams never won again save for Pastor in 2012. That's failure in my book.

[@jogonz5833]

@@WinTech4074 the extremely small engine with high hp McLaren was asking honda to design was difficult/ridiculous or no?Why i mentioned their philosophy was to blame...

[@chrisvanrooyen8982]

I would love to see BMW return to F1 but that will probably never happen

[@stansandor6972]

Why not

[@VcTrification]

@@stansandor6972 they wanna go electric

[@bebeboooo]

@@VcTrification They don't. They wanna keep their focus on DTM. Mercedes left DTM to focus on F1 and FE. If BNW came back they would most likely have to leave FE or DTM.

[@blocksource4192]

@@VcTrification Out of all the german brands, they are the only brand who still has a ICE dominant lineup. The engine restrictions being v6 also keeps BMW away because BMW has heritage with I6.

[@KatieCooper1990]

BMW are clueless when it comes to running a Formula One team. Their corporate leadership is a joke. I don't want them anywhere near F1 ever again. They nearly destroyed Sauber and would've destroyed Williams if they'd bought the team. We don't need bad rubbish in F1.

[@bajo5e470]

So the Germans came, brought you tons of money as primary sponsor, gave you a free most powerful engine and in return Sir Frank gave them hard time ??? This is exactly why I’m so happy to see Williams where they are

[@oscarmico3353]

Well said!

[@jacobmassey3897]

They have done so much to get to where they are now. No sympathy deserved at all.

[@19megamustaine85]

@@jacobmassey3897 both williams ,also mclaren.

[@AntaripChoudhury-z5n]

@@jacobmassey3897 True, and also, they have messed up 3 times in the team's history. First there was '98-'99, which was pre-BMW and that really was the start of the downfall, even though we didn't know it. Second there was '06-'13, when they really just became a backmarker team with limited resources, up until 2014 when they got Mercedes engines, which were vastly superior to anything else, and they got a ton of sponsor money from Martini. Then there was the one that they were in until '22. From '19-'22 they just have been consistently at the back of the pack, spare a few good moments here and there. Now that the Williams family have backed off, I really do hope they have turned a new leaf from the old Williams, as Vowles really has been honest and open about the team's shortcomings, and with their current 7th place in the constructors (As of the 2023 Belgium GP), I really hope they've changed from an old, arrogant Williams, to an honest and open new Williams.

[@angus_bangus]

@@19megamustaine85arguably. mercedes failed mclaren with reliability woes. kimi was on the pace and absolutely rapid. he deserved the 2004 season and arguably the 2003 season as well.

[@ryanrinella6242]

The BMW Williams V10 is the greatest sounding engine ever

[@f1jones544]

Really? I saw it race twice and sounded like all the other V10s. The only one that sounded different was Mercedes when it ran the sidepid stacks on 2001.

[@iainers5285]

Listen to Berger's '94 V12 Ferrari...

[@URBANLEGEND543]

The Renault was a different sound too.

[@Γεώργιοςιωακειμιδης-σ7ρ]

@@iainers5285 Listen bmw b52 1500 hp

[@johnnycab8986]

Greatest F1 engine ever.

[@mazu_005]

Williams had the right drivers every time during the BMW era; JPM, Ralf, Webber and Heidfeld, but Frank’s “name ego” came back to bite him, when he refused BMW’s offer to buy the team out.

[@giuseppecastrignano1345]

It's not ego. If you own something, would you sell it to someone else win?

[@gerardsotxoa]

@@giuseppecastrignano1345 no it's ego, he refused any help from BMW and engine providers always have a harsh splitting with Williams.

[@Zero_Ninety]

BMW's withdrawal in 2009 proved Frank WIlliams was right to have not sold out.

[@kylegoodman5196]

Tell that to BMW. They couldn't stand the thought of a bunch of Brits doing better so they packed up and left. The only attempt at an all German F1 team resulted in like three podiums and one race win plus no title contention. And no Mercedes does not count..

[@gamefan56]

@@kylegoodman5196 Slight off topic but BMW Sauber was not the only attempt at an all German F1 team in history. Rial in the late 80´es tried it as well and it was a massive failure

[@marnixsiekmans8259]

Quite the story. I was watching another video about Williams and their bid to be an independent constructor as opposed to a b team. It got me thinking why they don’t have a works engine deal or why they didn’t give up their Mercedes power train for Honda power in 2017 in order to become a works team. Now I get it. Quite the mentality present at Williams when compared to other teams. I highly doubt that they can get themselves back where they used to be.

[@jstoli996c4s]

Williams' staunch approach will not change until Sir Frank is departed.

[@swiftsportcolombia]

Im Colombian 🇨🇴 I think the key was the tires , brigstone was miles ahead of michellin, unfortunately for JPMontoya a king with a 👑 specially on 2003

[@marnixsiekmans8259]

Pablo Artunduaga it’s very true that Bridgestone were ahead with the tires including the working relationship ferrari had with them. They were partners not only customers. Too bad about JPMontoya not winning a championship.

[@jstoli996c4s]

k halliday Ferrari as well, when they properly manage their chaos ;)

[@gojenson]

jstoli996c4s sad, but I agree. It has further helped by the Williams documentary. I figured Claire was the one fucking shit up. But, Frank isn’t letting Claire run things her way.

[@mistertheking]

I think JPM might be the greatest driver of the 2000s not to have a DWC under their belt.

[@NicoZF]

yes, you are right

[@Bleifuss88]

His bad luck was that he was born 10 years late. By the early 2000s F1 was such a mega professional environment he never really could fit in. He was incredibly talented and even more bold on track, but lacked the professional attitude that was needed. Best seen in his "Tennis" accident. US racing suits him way more, where he is still racing and he seems to be very happy there.

[@nanominardi4084]

Williams has the last chance with Montoya. But Williams made a mistakes

[@DabDabGoose]

The blame squarely lied with Williams especially Patrick head who not only was the reason Newey Left but was a big reason why Williams refused to work with BMW on the technical front, BMW should of bought out Heads share in the team at the start and told him to go packing.

[@161BMW]

Why didn’t Head want to work with BMW ?

[@wrczane]

Williams’ pride is it’s biggest flaw. Anyone who watched “the secret life of F1” will recall an episode where it was stated, Schumacher would not have had the freedom to employ who he wants like he did at Ferrari with Williams. Williams is Williams GP engineering. Just look where they are today in comparison to Haas F1, especially keeping in mind they were level with Mercedes F1 when the hybrid era arrived. Change your culture, swallow your pride and adapt to an always changing F1 environment and they will get back up to with pack.

[@angeljaimes2549]

Yeah but that's not happening any soon, Claire won't be going against Frank any soon, if she doesn't actually hold the same old timey ideas

[@tonyb9735]

You're wrong in just about every aspect of your post. Schumacher did not employ anybody at Ferrari. He might possibly have had a veto on the choice of the second driver. Jean Todt made all other employment decisions. In any case the single most important aspect of Ferrari's success was the size of their budget which was tens of millions pounds a year greater than anybody else's at that time. Williams were flattered by the Mercedes engine at the start of the hybrid era but they absolutely were not "level with Mercedes F1". Williams problem has been the same for a very long time; they are unable to design effective aero. This started at the time when Newey (aero genius) left and also corresponded roughly to the time at which they commissioned their second wind tunnel. I'm not sure which of those two events had the greater impact but the fact remains that Williams have had poor aero ever since.

[@jsquared1013]

@@tonyb9735 you're out of your gourd if you think Michael wasn't the driving force behind Ferrari's revamp and resurgence. When he moved from Benetton he literally brought Ross Brawn, and if I remember correctly his race engineer and a number of mechanics. That team was built around Michael. Williams' problem isn't just aero. It's their entire corporate structure and -- most crucially -- the attitude of the management in charge and their "culture". Including a massive lack of self-awareness. Look at how they've treated their drivers over the decades, even when they were still successful in the mid-90s, all the way through the scape-goating and excuses into the modern era. They hired Paddy Lowe, who had just won 4 straight drivers'/constructors' with Mercedes, to do the *same job* for Williams. But the car was atrocious and in 2019 they couldn't even get the damned thing built in time for the first day of testing. Did Paddy go from water-walking hero to bumbling zero overnight? Highly illogical. It's endemic at Williams. Claire is out of her depth, and bringing Head back in as a consultant is just bringing back the same problems he had before.

[@alexbentley4087]

Yeah about right. They all take it very personally when they are criticised too; for example, when Ralf Schumacher criticised them recently.

[@LuisTrey]

Well now they’re in the brink of having to drop out of Formula 1. Their main sponsor ROKIT just ended their sponsorship and they don’t have any money. I hope they leave Formula 1. They don’t deserve to compete in the sport anymore!

[@danielalonso9559]

This can be answered with one word. Williams.

[@JuanGSR]

Ahh BMW Williams, the memories...

[@nicolasgarcia248]

BMW Williams didnt fail, they had very good drivers and a very good car, and engine. Ferrari had an extrordinary driver, a superb car, and the best engine ( not the most powerfull, but the most reliable...and it was not really "underpowered" eather)

[@tombardsley3081]

But they should have won both titles in 2003 . Ferrari weren’t as strong as they were in 2002 and 2004. Williams were leading the constructors with 2 rounds to go and Montoya was only 3 points behind Schumacher

[@nicolasgarcia248]

@@tombardsley3081 missing a chance, is not a failure...i mean. 21 drivers and 10 teams are going to fail every year under that premise

[@tombardsley3081]

@@nicolasgarcia248 that was a championship season for them and to not win at least the constructors having been in front with 2 rounds to go picking up just one points finish between the 2 cars across this final 2 races is a failure. They let Ferrari and Schumacher off the hook especially with how Schumacher was doing in that final race in Japan

[@nicolasgarcia248]

@@tombardsley3081 that is the way ir goes. The calendar have 18 races, not 16. It doesnt matter if You score 10 point in round 1 or round 20, still are 10 points.

[@tombardsley3081]

@@nicolasgarcia248 yeah which is why I'm saying they blew it in the last 2 races cos they didn't get the points when Ferrari specifically Schumacher were in trouble in Japan

[@totalmadnesman]

AS Ralf siad it, Williams was just an arsehole to deal with (the team), he said he could never get the Brits do properly deal with the german s.

[@rnez99]

That's rich coming from Ralf. As Zanardi put it in his book "he was a fast as he was unpleasant".

[@GoogleGebruiker]

@@rnez99 So he must've been relatively pleasant right?

[@souldry]

Token Black Probably the nicest guy in the world

[@Sandouras]

Ronny Nunez Actually Ralf seems like a nice and well adjusted guy. Less successful than Michael but Michael was a psychopath when it came to competing.

[@gamefan56]

@@Sandouras Ralf was known as a bit of an arsehole off track. He did not have the same charisma as Micharl, which is really telling at how Ralf was never able to get a team behind hm unlike what Michael did with Bennetton and Ferrari.

[@vladutcornel]

My memory from the time is fuzzy, and I wasn't following the drama outside the races. The only reason I know of why they don't have a championship title is named Michael.

[@thelarry383]

and politics

[@swiftsportcolombia]

Im Colombian 🇨🇴 I think the key was the tires , brigstone was miles ahead of michellin, unfortunately for JPMontoya a king with a 👑 specially on 2003 .... yeah AND FÍA bullshit

[@ultrapaiva]

Williams’s management style works when they either have strong sponsors (so they have cash to buy the top parts and hire the top staff) or top manufacturers willing to join Formula 1 (who will foot the bill for some time). With the exception of Honda, there were no such opportunities in F1 lately and the hole gets deeper every year. It’s very unfortunate but they need professional management on the F1 side. Someone that could do what Todt did with Ferrari or Briatore with Benneton. Adam Parr seemed to be that person but he left and wasn’t replaced by someone with the same caliber. It’s sad but Williams / Head are too old and Claire doesn’t seem to be able to carry the team over to a better future. They need to change strategy or fold. I’m available! ;-)

[@owenchau4719]

they could have maybe won the 2008 championship with kubica since he was leading the championship in canada 08, but they decided to focus on 09 -_-

[@peterfighter]

I agree, but this is about Williams BMW not BMW Sauber.

[@owenchau4719]

@@peterfighter oops sorry

[@cornevangulik6166]

Willams didn’t want to appoint a first and a second driver. If they did so in 2003 Williams could’ve gone on for a very competitive championship campaign with Montoya. I think to say BMW failed is a exaggeration in the end it failed because of poor management skills within BMW and Williams

[@fusionsniping3741]

A car without an engine is just a chassis, that's why it failed, why block BMW into development of the car, a harmonical partnership would be way better then this

[@simplygregsterev]

Regardless The late 90s and early 2000s BMW was ace. Awesome road cars and F1. Sadly BMW was never in it to win it, Just when they were on the brink in 2008 they stopped development, the 2009 car was a dud and the experiment was over. Meanwhile Mercedes enters.. as a works team.

[@dsar8727]

That 2001 Williams was a thing of beauty 😍

[@Obetv01]

Frank and Patrick were too hardheaded and old fashioned. Ralf said as much recently. In the end there two separate teams within a team and that never works

[@Rosario_Verano]

Mario Theissen scared me as a kid. I liked their tenure though.

[@rodrigoepaes]

Because they were missing Nelson Piquet: the first Turbo Champion and the First and Only BMW champion!!! ;)

[@Euclides287]

Everyone keeps saying *Kimi* should have won the 2003 championship, well, as this video demonstrated, if the FIA doesn't change the tyre rules for the last 3 races of the season to conveniently suit Ferrari, *Montoya* would have been champion.

[@lelouchvibritannia1788]

Lol they didn't conveniently change the rules idiot. Michelin were cheating by the fact that they had created weaker tyre walls and also had created vents on the tyre walls which during a race allow the tyre to relax and get wider and hence increase the contact patch, which was in direct contradiction to FIA's rule of a fixed contact patch. FIA were against Ferrari and had done many things to end their dominance, like the no tyre change rule in 2005. Bridgestone pointed out the tyre wall issue and FIA acted on it in 2003.

[@rhodriedwardwilliams]

Was a great team BMW made the best engines JPM & RS were a match for anyone on the grid probably all went wrong at the French GP with team orders for JPM not to pass Ralf. I think Frank should have let them buy into the team rather than let them leave to buy Sauber :(

[@lukacalov1988]

Failed is a wrong word They were rly good every year that they compeated

[@fenhen]

Agreed. McLaren-Honda was a failure. Any team partnership that wins races over several years can’t be considered a failure.

[@kenchen704]

@@fenhen if they don’t win a championship with championship winning potential, they are a failure. Don’t be playing saints here giving Williams credit for fucking up a championship winning hand with powerful engines abundance of funds and capable drivers.

[@fenhen]

@@kenchen704 Why does all the blame lie with Williams? I’m sure if Michael Schumacher was driving for them they’d have cakewalked 2003.

[@aogracing660]

2:57 lol! The Williams rear wing!

[@aditya.sagraha]

they predicted 2020

[@megabutters9144]

*Keep your distance*

[@car-Stan835]

It was because of the Crash Montoya-Verstappen in brasil and a other driver crashed into Ralf Schumachers car in another race.

[@gianniskamakas3578]

it was mounted after the incident with Jos Verstappen who took out Montoya from the race lead. Ocon-Karma

[@filmandfirearms]

@@gianniskamakas3578 How is karma? It's the wrong Verstappen

[@npc310177]

I wouldnt say BMW Williams failed and to be honest, you say this in the video at times anyway. A failure would be comparable to McLaren & Honda but BMW Williams was competetive. Factors that didnt help were the effect of Newey leaving and Ferrari creating a period of dominance (with a slight helping hand from certain tyre rulings). That said, Williams should have been more open to BMW help on the technical side

[@Sp4mMe]

I blame Williams, for the most part. Not that Ralle Schumacher is the most trustworthy judge of the issues, but ... his complaints sounded like the type of thing Williams would do, and it explains why they tried their luck with Sauber. That being said it wasn't that bad. It got as lot of exposure, some decent success. Not a complete failure. Sauber-BMW was actually the more dubious investment, probably.

[@HanZhang]

I personally think BMW-Sauber had more potential than BMW-Williams, due to BMW having full control of everything. Unfortunately, they were just too impatient for success, after one bad season in 2009 they just decided to dip when they probably could've found more success in the years afterwards.

[@retsoptihs0]

BMW really need to take the blame. Williams BMW won 10 races, whereas BMW Sauber won 1. So even if you gave BMW more control over the team, there is little guarantee of success. And them pulling out left Sauber in dire straits.

[@tombardsley3081]

@@retsoptihs0 bmw with Sauber could have won more had they not focused on 2009 midway through 2008. I think kubica could have won the title if they kept up development given the errors Hamilton and Massa were making alongside their impressive drives

[@pedrovaradi]

I think BMW did their job and gave Williams the best F1 Engine, but the aerodynamics weren’t good enough. Also, if Montoya wouldn’t be too risky on his moves (I love this guy and I still think he’s one of the best non-world champions), he would’ve won more races and maybe the 2003 World Championship

[@Kubickz]

Montoya had no fault on 2003. It wasn't his fault that FIA was biased towards Ferrari for the USA penalty and the LEGAL tyres that michelin had for the last 2 years. Also BMW engine blew on Austria and Japan where he was leading

[@RossBayCult]

The Williams BMW of the early years resembled the Brabham of the 80’s

[@carlitoxb110]

BMW williams made the most beautiful F1 car of the last 20 years, the FW26

[@forzaferrari9912]

I miss BMW in F1 so much! Mabye if they had pushed and got WCC and WDC with Kubica in 2008, they would've stayed a little longer.

[@lameduck3630]

The 2000 car was beautiful.

[@IceKoldKilla19]

They all were from that period, but was interesting they only used that livery on the fw22 for one season, the rest were very similar

[@DrSovertake]

The 3 most iconic cars in my opinion BMW Williams Marlboro McLaren Marlboro Ferrari. Might wanna throw in there that BMW Sauber looked really cool 😎

[@rossrreyes]

Fail? They had great success the first half of the 2000’s, other than Ferrari-Schumacher-Ross Brawn

[@matteogirelli1023]

Montoya certainly deserved a title. Slower drivers won one and some drivers win one title every year just for the car recently

[@Blueflag04]

Toyota and BMW could've bee two teams that can challenge for title if things went right

[@illdeletethismusic]

it could have turned out well had the 2009 regulations not come in BMW would have kept focus on the 08 design, Toyota was not hopeless that year any more, the Red Bull teams were catching up,.... all the needed ingredients for exciting following seasons

[@aggerktm]

@@illdeletethismusic Red Bull was focusing entirely on regulation changes. they had no vision of being competitive during that era

[@kiranbabu3426]

"Drivers are like light-bulbs" - Patrick Head Somehow, I really don't feel bad for the guy. Hope Claire could do something.

[@kanemay19619]

She is in charge since 2014, so she is in 7th year as the head of the team and the team since then is going to shit. Maybe she is not the one for the job ?

[@bostonvh]

Bruno Perkovic I agree, anyone else would have been shown the door years ago

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

The teams repeated ability to retain championship winning drivers always set alarm bells ringing all the way back to the 80s. The arrogance that winning produces becomes a serious handicap to make the changes the team needed to survive at the top I.e. attract mayor player partnerships to provide the £ to compete with the big boys . Ultimately a management failure. Sorry Frank, Patrick here’s your can , carry it.

[@GloomGaiGar]

@@kanemay19619 Don't forget Frank & Patrick still have the final say in big company decisions. Claire is in charge of day to day and race to race operations. A lot of people forget who the real owners of Williams are.

[@sultanabran1]

having recently read adrian newey's book and having a little insight into williams, i think the failure came because frank and patrick ran the team as though it was the 80s still. two old boys running an operation. f1 had moved on but those two old boys hadn't. bmw knew this and jumped ship.

[@bymafia2606]

williams need to either leave F1 and look to do something less costly, or let a big manufacturer buy in to the team. They’re stuck living in the past, the day of the independents is long gone.

[@ahogg5960]

Exactly. Eddie Jordan knew which way the wind was blowing and sold up when he had the chance. So did Paul Stoddard

[@Orcawhale1]

How do you explain the 2014 season, then?

[@gamefan56]

@@Orcawhale1 Mostly down thanks to the extremely dominant Mercedes engine while every other engine was so far off the Mercedes engine in terms of reliability and pace. There was also the fact their car took massive advantage of that Mercedes engine with a low drag setup like the 2019 Ferrari.

[@Luisml8]

Is sad but it is what it is, I liked independent team, reason why budget cap. Is being introduce, however I don't think Williams will survive another 2 or 3 years.

[@bymafia2606]

Orcawhale two words: Mercedes engine. Obviously they still have the merc engine but in 2014 the merc engine was miles ahead and in 2014 they built a decent car. Where as now they have an awful car and the engine isn’t good enough to carry them

[@philippederosierjr.2319]

Losing Adrian Newey was a big reason. at that point teams were growing immensely and putting more of an emphasis on aero integration and advanced tuning while williams were still taking the hard chassis,s with stiff springs approach to designing cars

[@purwantiallan5089]

BMW Williams 2005 is the start of Williams TOTAL DOWNFALL.

[@dianemourtis8116]

The rear wing message displayed at 2:58 is quite relevant nowadays.

[@97rafaellino]

BMW should be back in F1 asap, had Frank Williams sold the team to Teison and his team I strongly believe today Williams would have been up there with the front three, but as always would have, could have, should have

[@Maoulduin]

Fond memories of the walrus nose on the 2004 FW26.

[@zhuyufan1186]

No wonder Ralph once said one of the Williams he drove during a test was tough to drive and yet Sir Head told him to get on with it. Also, one of the v10 era footage just shown how hard Ralph had to fight against his car in Imola.

[@matteobeneduce256]

They didn't fail. They only had One problem: Ferrari & Schumacher. If BMW Williams Is a failure then all the other teams are.

[@alexwilliams5819]

Tension between Ralf and JPM didn’t help either. They disliked each other from day 1, neither played the team game and they collided on multiple occasions (USA 2002, Europe 2004)

[@OsborneCox.69.420]

those BMW/Williams V10’s sounded the best.

[@4Leka]

Short-sightedness is never a recipe for success. Just look at Honda, Renault, BMW, and Ford (Jaguar) and compare them to the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari on the engine side or to McLaren and Red Bull on the team side.

[@plamenmilanov3009]

Because Red Bull is the only team in recent history that have won against their engine supplier (Renault), or maybe even EVER. Look how good McLaren was until actual Mercedes team showed up, now McLaren is a second rate team. Ferrari is the only team with Ferrari engines that has won the championship.. that's that. My theory is that engine supplies never give their customer teams the top tier engines that they themselves use. Certainly not Ferrari. The aero package argument is bullshit. You tell me that in all these years none of their customers were able to come up with better aero than them?

[@brendanmccallion2350]

I do believe Williams needs to find a similar partnership to BMW again if it hopes to survive in Formula One.

[@douglasberg2881]

It's funny how BMW like to talk about Motorsport, but unlike similar brands like Mercedes or Renault they aren't even in F1 would respect of they at least turned up or were sponsors.

[@canardaciloglu]

There were number of reasons. When BMW re-entered to F1 they wanted immediate progress and constant success from Williams which put huge pressure to Williams since they knew that if they blew this engine deal they'll be swung back to the rear end of the grid with non-works engines. In 2000-2001, Williams delivered BMW the progress they wanted and they looked set to be in a real fight with Ferrari for 2002 but it all came short since Ferrari had designed a beast of a car the F2002 which was the class of the grid. At this point BMW was clearly the best engine on the grid but Williams again failed to win any championships. This increased the tensions between BMW and Williams F1 and led to BMW losing faith in Williams's own methods of building the car so BMW F1 director Mario Theissen started pushing Williams to sell 40-50 percent of Williams Racing to BMW in which that way BMW could run things as they wished meanwhile Patrick Head and Frank Williams's grasp in the team would be reduced. Williams refused to give the ropes to BMW. Nevertheless this was a alarm signal for Williams and they made a very competitive car for 2003 in which they unfortunately lost both titles to Ferrari with Montoya's win in Monaco being the highlight of the year. 2004 was a rough year for both BMW and Williams as they struggled with engine reliability and radical design mistakes. Williams's relationship with BMW really soured when Montoya and R.Schumacher both left the team which left Williams with average midfield drivers like Heidfeld and at the time Webber. 2005 wasn't a bad year for Williams actually in terms of understanding the car and it set to be a transition year but with Williams failing to land a proven-race winner like Montoya or R.Schumacher, they landed in hot water with BMW since BMW didn't have the patience nor the constant funding to go on a 1-2 year of mediocre performances so BMW again pushed Frank Williams to sell the team to them but they were again turned down which at this point Peter Sauber which was more than happy to sell his declining midfield team started talking with BMW director Theissen and agreed to sell 70% of Sauber F1 to BMW and also added an extra clause which stated that Peter Sauber had the right to re-take Sauber F1 if BMW pulled (which actually happened at the end of 2009). At this point Williams was screwed over big time since BMW pointed "the finger" at them and refused to supply engines for 2006 and snatched Heidfeld away from Williams to race for rebranded BMW Sauber team for 2006 which left Williams with severly underpowered Cosworth engines and an unhappy Mark Webber with only the arrival of Nico Rosberg being a positive for the team since he would lead the team through the thick midfield battles of 2006-2009 and would take 5 podiums for Williams . BMW meanwhile would not find the success they wanted with Sauber despite a consistent and talented driver line up of Kubica and Heidfeld. With BMW's peak as a works team coming in 2008 which they took their first pole,win and 1-2 finish. Suprisingly BMW announced that they would stop the development of the 2008 car to work on 2009 regulations(which turned out to be a mediocre last season for them with 2 podiums in Malaysia and Brazil) but agruably if BMW had further developed the 2008 car maybe it would have been a three way title battle between Hamilton, Massa and Kubica. To F1 fans(including me) agony that didn't happen and BMW announced that they would pull-out of F1 at the end of the 2009 F1 season......

[@Orcawhale1]

Whoa there charles dickens.

[@f1central449]

2001 was only plagued by reliability, otherwise they would of won

[@polishsubtramine8781]

For 2000 FOWC Williams started with new title sponour - Compaq. In the middle of 2002 season, Before GBR_GP Hewlett Packard bought Compaq. Rear wing had a controversial password "Invent!"

[@savindudesilva7250]

Power is nothing without handling and reliability. Still my favorite F1 engine of all times.

[@steelcityspeedshopj.r6942]

Cause williams felt entitled . We now see how that has worked out for them. If i was the company who bought them out. Id do the american thing and change the name. 😂

[@eddieconroy212]

Two clashing ideologies. Williams is fiercely independent while BMW (in Theissen) are very corporate. Big egos don’t work together.

[@motorsportunlimited2780]

It was an interesting time for Williams, such a shame BMW jumped ship to Sauber, could have been something great!!

[@caitlinpennycommentary]

I don't think it failed at all. Ten Grand Prix victories and two second place constructors' championship finishes are nothing to be sniffed at.

[@aggerktm]

they didnt win a single title so it cant be considered a success either

[@caitlinpennycommentary]

@@aggerktm It depends on what your definition of a success is, and what theirs was too.

[@sebastianperez8140]

The “keep your distance” on the rear wing is hilarious

[@javiergarrido6088]

Since Newey left the team in 1997, Williams has never been the same. Although there was a leading cycle with BMW where there were several wins. Willams lacked designing a chassis capable of beating Ferrari and Schumacher, and they also lacked some reliability. A pity for Montoya, in 2003 he could have emulated Nelson Piquet who was champion in a Brabham-BMW in 1983.

[@Fadedecho1]

Don't know to much about this man. I do know these drivers are awesome and cars are brilliant. Hopefully all goes well with them.

[@mildseven0506]

This was Williams last strong winning combo, BMW, talented drivers and engineers. Now I think Williams is an entity racing team.

[@pouyan225]

I always felt BMW was too impatient. Success in F1 takes time and they were against the dream team of Ferrari. Had they stayed with Williams they might have reaped the rewards in 2007-2009 period when Montezemolo demolished the dream team and Ferrari slowly dropped the ball,but we'll never know.

[@alifm4098]

You're not the only one to think about that part. As much this is Williams fault BMW Has their fault as well. Which of course compared to Mercs who are more patient and not rush too much, BMW are just not very patient and just want to achieve a championship in their debut no matter what it takes

[@katout75]

Ralf Schumacher in the F1 KZbin channel interview with him indicated that Willaims were having alot of aero problems wit the early 2000's chassis, so much so he felt Jordan had better solutions from a aero point of view.

[@wolfgangvan-uber6515]

I wouldn't say they failed. The Schumacher/Ferrari partnership in the early to mid-2000s was just too good, it was a perfect match that made them almost unbeatable. Without Ferrari being so strong, Williams would have certainly won a few more drivers and constructor's titles.

[@jannadrielcervo7753]

Realistically Williams only hope would be to partner again with Renault. Renault is desperate for an established team with the expertise of their facilities. Williams have the facilities and the technology to help Renault in technological sharing. While Williams didn't have the budget, Renault can provide. With that way, Renault can focus more in the improvement of their engines/power units.

[@thecodex0994]

That's until Williams start beating Renault. Then Renault will take their engine and team out of F1 again for the 5th time

[@Sp4mMe]

Renault has been building those facilities for the last five years. It would have been an idea when they thought about re-entering F1, similar to McLaren-Honda at least try for a strong partnership, but that ship has sailed.

[@jannadrielcervo7753]

Renault wanted that kind of partnership to work with McLaren. But we know things didn't happened that way as Renault expected. Because you know McLaren will switch to Mercedes-AMG engines next year. So if Williams wanted to survive in the future, they need to venture with Renault.

[@thecodex0994]

@@jannadrielcervo7753 I agree but with the stubbornness of the Williams heads they would rather shoot themselves in the foot it seems going with past experiences it seems. I honestly think unless Frank Williams leaves 100% of the running to Clare his past mistakes (namly when wolf brought majority shares in the first Williams team) will be their in the background. Which is a shame as I have been a Williams fan since 1993/4

[@jannadrielcervo7753]

@@thecodex0994 Yeah I think it's the stubbornness of Frank that will bring his team down. They could just sell Williams, and be handled by a better management, the name could survive like McLaren when Ron Dennis merged his team in honour of the founder. I too hope Williams will survive in the future, and hope that they will return to winning championships.

[@JuanAntonEgo]

Most def. BMW knew there were weak links inside Williams.if they wanted to defeat Schumacher & Ferrari. They had to be stronger & take full control. & specially get rid of the weakest links asap!. Williams just wasnt compatible enough for BMW

[@lukas_jay243]

That 2003 FW25 was a gorgeous car. Should've won the Constructors that year.

[@sanivinda4056]

Williams fooked it up when they let Adrian Newey go

[@daninagy4173]

The late season FW26 is one of the best-looking cars of that era and/or decade.

[@RingkampfChronicles]

If anyone seeks a bit German, there is a interesting interview on the starting grid podcast with dr. THEISEN.

[@161BMW]

What did he say ?

[@kallebengtzon5240]

I miss The high rev engines

[@realamerican5016]

I truly would love to see BMW come in the sport as a constructor because they make such great engines and I'm sure would give Mercedes a run for their money

[@v6i838]

I know it’s not really the topic of this video, but the decision by BMW Sauber to stop developing their 2008 car after the Canadian GP, when Robert Kubica was in the lead of the drivers championship, still baffles me to this day

[@Arivald_]

Germans couldn't stand pushing Polish driver to the championship when they had their countrymate beside him :)