Why Both the Greens And Blacks are Right | House of the Dragon Essay 🐲

[@thalmoragent9344]

Honestly its VERY interesting seeing how this story plays out. When Rhaenys and Viserys were the main candidates for the Succession Crisis, Daemon was ready to rally troops in defense of Viserys had he been tossed aside for Rhaenys as the next ruler. You could argue it was since it's his brother and not necessarily Daemon wanting a man rather than woman on the Throne. So it's interesting how, when Aemond supports Aegon 2's claim to the Throne, he's viewed differently. Like, people make the argument that Rhaenyra should've been Heir by all accounts, but just the last Succession, Daemon was FULLY ready to wage war for the younger, Male Heir. Whether for brotherly reasons or not, it's very hypocritical (in this light) for people who love Daemon to condemn the Greens for essentially doing something Daemon himself would've done. This Succession Crisis is VERY personal, and while tradition is a key part of this, just familial support alone is at the core of this. Which is why at least a 2nd Great Council would've been better off (assuming Daemon wasn't married to Rhaenyra yet, so the earlier the better). So a 2nd key point to make is that Daemon is a threat to any sort of "peace" he doesn't agree with... so whether you like Otto or not, Otto's been rather spot on and understandably upset and cautious with Daemon.

[@raerants]

You bring up really good points which I agree with, especially Otto's relationship with Daemon. I'd only argue that both Otto and Daemon also have their own personal agenda divorced from "the good of the realm". Even though there are a ton of personal reasons for this sucession crisis, I prefered to keep it more objective with law, religion and Aegon's Dream just because I think it's the most "fair" way to analyse this. If you bring in characters' motivations, the reasons behind a war can be a bit biased just like in Fire and Blood. I'm team Black ahah but I also love Team Green, and it's important not to forget these are all characters led by their own personal moral compasses and interests.

[@joshuaadams6565]

It’s seen differently because Rhaenys and Rhaenyra aren’t the same. Neither are Daemon and Aemond. Rhaenys had a fair council to vote on her claim to the iron throne. She lost by a landslide. Rhaenyra had more supporters than Aegon across the realm and high lords previously bent the knee to her. So while Rhaenys had 1/20 votes Rhaenyra had 60%-80% of the realm supporting her. While Daemon did plan for a hostile aftermath if Viserys didn’t win, we never saw the potential fallout. I also have the feeling that Viserys would stop Daemon. We have no idea how far Daemon would have took it. While in comparison we saw how Aemond reacted. He killed Luke and Arrax, ripped Meleys apart and burned Rhaenys to ash, set fire to the Riverlands… Familial support is a big part but Rhaenyra was direct family, she was Aemonds eldest sibling. I’d argue Daemon was reacting out of loyalty to his brother but Aemond was being groomed. If they were all free to be siblings without the team black vs team green brainwashing then he’d support Rhaenyra. Eveyone knew Aegon was a f**k up.

[@noahkanku8139]

​@@joshuaadams6565 Rhaenyra DID NOT have 80% of the Realm in support. There were just more Houses that were explained citly stated to be on Rhaenyra's side. For example we know that the whole of the Westerlands and the Stormlands were on Aegon's side but we only know that the Great House was supporting him. If we were to line up the supporters side by side and included every house it would probably come down to 50/50 or 55/45 in Rhaenyra's favour. Meaning if we don't just say "Yeah the Lannisters and Baratheons supported Aegon" but "Yeah The Lannisters, the Leffords, the Braxes, the Baneforts, the Reynes, the Tarbecks, the Farmans, the Kennings etc."

[@92irishjoe]

Wonderful video! I’ve always looked at the dance as a “No one truly won” kind of war. The main tragedy was the dying of the Dragons like you said. The Dragon pit was the Bane of the Targaryens they just didn’t know it

[@Meme-jo7uj]

I am Team Green because naming and keeping Rhaenyra heir destabilizes the realm for as long as her and her descendants reigned. Even if you take away the greens a bloody civil war was inevitable all because of Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra’s children are split into 2 factions Harwin’s bastards and Daemon’s trueborn sons. This would eventually cause war if Rhaenyra’s reign lasted that long. Rhaenyra also has shown multiple times that she is selfish impulsive and politically stupid. She doesn’t have experienced or competent advisors like Aegon ( maybe Rhaenys but thats it). Aegon has a stronger claim, legitimate heirs, beloved wife (unlike Rhaenyra’s spouse) , competent and experienced advisors, and strong allies. Naming Aegon heir would’ve avoided the fall of house Targaryen and saved thousands of lives.

[@alexjames7144]

Aegon is a drunk and Alicent is impulsive enough to have tried to kill Rhaenyra in a room full of people. Alicent could have chosen not to prepare her children to take the throne, she was pushing for it for decades for entirely selfish reasons. Rhaenyra has Rhaenys and Corlys, who are easily as competent as Otto. Aegons claim is based on ignoring what the old king officially declared. Not exactly a strong claim imo. Devoted wife? She's not even sane. The real answer to avoid all of this was to marry all the kids and cousins as soon as possible and then nobody can go to war because there aren't any sides left.

[@Meme-jo7uj]

@@alexjames7144 1.Alicent was not in her right mind and immediately regretted. 2. Rhaenys and Coryls were dumb enough to believe that obvious bastards would inherit without contests. The allowed the political and familial disaster Rhaenyra to ruin their family legacy and entire house. Coryls continued to back a woman who k1lled his son, passing off bastards as trueborn,and husband k1lled his brother. I say all that to say the velaryons are just as ignorant as Rhaenyra. 3.Alicent tried preparing Aegon but failed in parenting him. 4. Aegon’s claim is on 1000s of years of precedence, tradition and laws. The same precedent made Viserys king in the first place. The entire Targaryen dynasty is based on male primogeniture and westerosi customs. 4. Hel is as sane as everyone else in the show. She is intelligent she is just autistic ( im assuming) 5. The solution after marrying Alicent and having Aegon was to name him heir on his second birthday. There war avoided.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

I would argue that Rhaenrya needed to cement her position. As unfair as it is, she is a female heir in a deeply sexist society with three younger half-brothers which means she does have to work harder for her crown which means that instead of playing it like a prince, she needs to play it like a princess. Basically, turn herself into Alysanne reborn among the nobles and commonfolk, hand out bread and wine to the peasantry, hold balls and festivals, meet with lords and ladies, and learn to flatter. Also, I don't blame Rhaenrya for finding a sperm donor, since her husband was gay and possibly infertile, and she needs an heir to the throne but my problem is her choice. Harwin was not a good choice. She needed a man that resembled Laenor to an extent but also knew when to keep his mouth shut and disappear when he wasn't needed anymore. For this, I suggest a very low-ranking member of House Velaryon who isn't too ambitious but would be happy to be used to make the next heirs to the throne.

[@raerants]

That's fair tbh, and also agree with all that. Westeros is man's world, and she needed to have played her cards smarter, although I sympathise with her and her struggle.

[@eons8941]

In the books it's more ambiguous when it comes to Rhaenyra's first three children because her kids are white and house velaryon is white so people assumed that her children took after their black haired dragon riding grandmother the Princess Rhaenys the Queen who never was . In The show the velaryons are black and Rhaenyra's kids are white so its obvious they are bastards. I suspect this was done in order for Greens to appear more Grey and more justified in taking the throne not just power hungry usurpers who took the throne without reason

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@@raerants I do too. It's not right that no one would care what she would do if she was prince, but Rhaenys and Viserys are also correct that she is a girl and needs to be able to play the Game of Thrones by their rules until she can make up her own.

[@MrGreenJester]

I mean, that's how it should be. In my opinion, this story should be about two sides of the same coin, who both feel are justified in their actions, either to themselves or the realm. It's just a question of which side you feel is more justified, and even then, it could be heavily debated

[@nonjabulomangoro1871]

I think what especially muddied the waters around the succession is that Viserys named Rhaenyra heir before Aegon was born, he never formally addresses the succession after Aegon's birth either. If you look at House Royce and that Rhea Royce had inherited her house, it's another precedent that had been set, that the great council sort of abolished. A woman could inherit before an uncle but not before a brother. I think that's why naming Rhaenyra heir at the time wasn't a big deal, there were 2 precedents, the one of the great council(Only men can inherit no matter what), and the one practiced in the reach(the children of the person will inherit before an uncle, although a male child will still inherit before a female child). By both accounts Aegon's claim is solid. I don't think Alicent is hypocritical in both her decision to spurn Rhaenyra's bastards and marrying Haleana to Aegon. After Rhaenyra's proposal to Alicent(the betrothal of Jacearys and Haleana), Alicent couldn't reject that proposal unless there would be someone of the same status as Jacearys or higher, only Aegon's status is the same as Jacearys. She also couldn't accept that betrothal because she'd basically accept that Haleana would be held captive by the blacks should any of the greens step out of line(You guys do remember what happened to Sansa?) I don't think Alicent cared too much about Rhaenyra's promiscuity after her marriage just that she was lying about her children being Leanor's. Especially when those children are obviously not Leanor's, that alone would plunge the realm into war repeatedly as the descendants of Aegon, Aemond, Daeron and Jacearys, Lucerys, Joffrey and potentially Viserys and Aegon the younger will continuously challenge one another even if Aegon doesn't challenge Rhaenyra at King Viserys passing and Viserys doesn't challenge Jacearys at Rhaenyra's passing.

[@mappingshaman5280]

Except rhea Royce isn't the queen. There are different laws for the non royal nobility and for the targaryens. So rhea Royce can't marry her brother but she can inherit runestone if she lacks brothers.

[@9xprincess]

Succession in almost all the regions of Westeros is first born male-preference primogeniture. The line of the eldest male son is given precedent and then goes through the lines of his brothers from eldest to youngest and then his paternal uncles from eldest to youngest etc etc. In this a female can inherit over a uncle or male cousin if she is from the senior male line and has no brothers. In Dorne it is absolute primogeniture aka the line of the first born is given preference regardless of sex/gender. The mistake the Targaryens made was diverting from this well established tradition of first born male preference primogeniture and seemingly establishing a salic custom (no females at all) during the reign of King Jaehaerys I. When his eldest son Prince Aemon died, he had one child Princess Rhaenys. Through all the established customs she should have been the heir as she was the eldest (and only) descendant from the line of the first born son. Jaehaerys through everything into question by naming his second son Prince Baelon the heir over his eldest male line grandchild. It made it seem like the Iron Throne had separate succession laws from the rest of the 7 Kingdoms and that in it female inheritance was highly unfavored.

[@mappingshaman5280]

@@9xprincess except jahaerys wasn't the one who did that, he simply allowed the Lords to make a choice and THEY implemented sallic laws through precedence. But I agree jahaerys made a mistake in giving them the choice.

[@Ashbrash1998]

@@9xprincess Not all the time, in the Vale a female ruler listed a male heir over his distant cousin who waged a rebellion over it. The listed heir survived and ruled after the cousin died. The while point with succession rights is that they mean nothing in the end. What gets you the rights are the amount of support and blades on your side and the luck of outliving or outsmarting your challengers.

[@alexjames7144]

If Alicent had swallowed her pride and allowed the family to all intermarry as much as possible they'd have avoided war

[@mercuriology45]

Rhaenyra in the books had even more support than Aegon. The whole thing of “the kingdom would never accept a woman in the iron throne” was Ottos finest gaslighting.

[@nathanwalsh3028]

Interesting 🤔

[@yasmina3999]

Otto didn't know it and he had reasons to think like that.Literally one generation ago, the realm chose a male heir over female, even though her claim was even stronger.Moreover, in the book, Rhaenys was not even considered as a potential heir.Her SON was immediately chosen as a candidate for the throne.

[@debamlyabanerjee4067]

Nice joke aegon had support of house hightower, redwyne, peake, lannister, rayne, tarback, leffort, fell, baratheon and many others

[@noahkanku8139]

That's not correct it's just that more Houses were named who were her supporters for examples many Reach Houses were explicitly named but basically no Houses from the Westerland's or Stornlands who all supported Aegon. If you sum it up and would count every single House it would probably be equal. Meaning if don't just say "The Lannisters supported Aegon" but "The Lannisters, the Reynes, The Crakehalls, the Tarbecks, the Marbrands, The Braxes, the Leffords etc."

[@chrisanderson7258]

Otto wasn't gaslighting he was telling the truth. Westeros will never accept a queen. Hell even past Targaryen kings hadn't chosen a female as their heir except Maegor but then again he's a psychopath so I don't think that counts.

[@archie88]

Great video, been dying for more HotD content since the season ended lol, thanks for providing :)

[@kevinvest9693]

How many people caught the dragon eye in the promotional picture is the outline of the catspaw dagger that Viseris carries? I took me a few viewings.

[@americapie9214]

You know a house that is divided cannot stand. That kingdom will have to fall and be no more.

[@robertsmiley2207]

Yep grrm loves writing ✍️ morally grey characters and I love it too everything shouldn't be clear cut

[@jsalgadoify]

Great Video, looking foward for more!

[@Rhaenyra679]

Aemond ❤️

[@Aemondtargaryen-j3s]

Rhaenyra i am sorry for killing lucerys, it was the voices in my head i hope you find it in your heart to forgive me

[@Argos-xb8ek]

At the end of the day, after reading the story, I felt cheated after this conflict.

[@alexsullivan2957]

Great video, editing and insight

[@thesamplecorner]

Amazing video! Intrigued for season 2 even tho we all know what happens in the end… Pd: btw there are two “are” in the video title 😬

[@raerants]

Thanks! Sorry about the typo. I'm close to burnout ahah

[@alexsullivan2957]

You earned a new sub today

[@blackraven2062]

Greens 💚

[@alessiodandolo1460]

I'm for the Greens, because House Hightower is my favorite in Westeros, because I think Aegon's rights seem more objective to me, and because I think that from a political point of view, the kingdom has rather interest in being governed by the Greens. I don't have a problem with the fact that some people prefer to support the Blacks, but what annoys me is that most of the time, the arguments of Rhaenyra's supporters are extremely simplistic, caricatured and superficial (Otto and Alicent are mean because they're "plotting", Rhaenyra is nice because she's a Targaryen and her daddy named her heir). This way of reducing everything to feelings and a question of good and evil is annoying, because it shows firstly the extent to which some completely miss the richness and complexity of Martin's work, and because that the Dance of Dragons is above all a POLITICAL conflict, and that reducing its analysis to that of a family dispute is in fact very impoverishing in the debate. On the other hand, a certain number of Rhaenyra supporters often fall into bad faith and double standards: what seems completely acceptable to them on the one hand seems scandalous to them on the other. Who can honestly claim that the Blacks are not also ready to plot or that they do not defend their own interests, just like the Greens ? Conspiracy is not an identity, it is a method. It is obvious that if the Hightowers had dragons, they would not employ the same strategy to gain power and influence.

[@alexjames7144]

Precedent doesn't mean much under an absolute monarchy.

[@alessiodandolo1460]

The concept of absolutism is totally contradictory to that of feudalism. The Seven Kingdoms are a feudal monarchy, not absolute. And besides, even in the most absolute of absolute monarchies there is a concept called the unavailability of the Crown, and which prohibits the king from transmitting the Crown according to his will. Even Louis the Fourteenth submitted to it.

[@trueneutral101]

Very interesting and different video

[@lanntheclever6144]

Love from India🇮🇳

[@jjosifovic]

This is what I don’t get about king v he said it’s his duty to hold the realm together n that the prophesy needed the realm together under a Targaryen. N yet he put Rhaenyra on their knowing she will have problems because she is a women, not to mention she has 3 bastards, putting bastards on the iron throne has never happened n is treason……..it’s not like people r against bastards n women in his kingdom 😂 King v was an idiot n his actions proved opposite of his duty.

[@bass9052]

The blacks do not have a reasonable or legal claim. The king's word is not law. If it was then what was the point of the doctrine of exceptionalism ? If it was, what is the weight of the king's word + the decision of an entire ruling class against another lesser esteemed king's word alone? If it was then what was the point of the great council itself. Jaehearys could've picked one of his descendants. The great council is not the king's decision but a representation of all entities of Westeros when it comes to succession. It laid precedent. Until another council is held to discuss the succession or a law approved by all of Westeros is promulgated, it shall remain the framework that shapes the succession.

[@LionWithAGun]

id wager allicent married her kids together as a way to avoid rhaneryas offer to marry her son to allicents daughter. viserys was keen on the marriage the second it was offered so to avoid marrying her daughter to what she would say is bastard, she would push for her daughter to be married to anyone else and who better than the son that is closest to marriage age

[@kevinvest9693]

In the book Alicent originally segusted that Aegon 2 was to marry Rhaynera to combine there claims and avoid the war. Viseris shot it down said people would look at Aegon as the true king and not king consort. Alicent would never marry her daughter to a bastard which isn't confirmed in the books.

[@LionWithAGun]

@@kevinvest9693 ok thats the book which in cannon was written ages after these events and told through a fool and a maestor. as far as we should be concerned the history is written by those who won or had favored another side. of course its not going to have a maestor shit talk a queen who supported the faith and their values and would put her blame on the footnote king she married his first daughter who would inherit the throne. if they do a flashback in season 2 showing viserys denying this proposal then ill take the books cannon more seriously but till then you cant hold onto the book cannon when the show is telling you another truth that happened but was changed over the years for the book to be written

[@chancebih]

I have come to say this is a great video, but fixing the title would get you way more views. No hate just trying to help

[@raerants]

Lmao thanks. I've been tired.

[@kimmyrusso666]

@@raerants you do you girl. I love your voice I wish you do some audio books of House of Dragon. :)

[@abdulpraiseworthy771]

Technically dreams did make them kings, if not for Daeny’s dreams of the doom of Valyria the targs would’ve been BBQ like everyone else in Valyria minus the few other families that escaped so sure physically the dragons positioned them with power but it started with the Dreams and there u go.

[@Highinquisitor13245]

Not even started watching yet, but change the video title, dear. Poor grammar 😊

[@devinweir7869]

come on.. her accent is so beautiful. if perfect grammar is the sacrifice, it's more than worth it.

[@raerants]

Come on. If that typo doesn't indicate how tired I am I dunno dude ahah

[@GolelaSihle]

You speak like the white worm, but more audible and clear.i feel like you're what she was suppose to sound like😂❤️

[@riccardobater-james5396]

Wrong the greens have no legs to stand on even if we discount the 3 older sons she has 2 true born sons to be he airs

[@mappingshaman5280]

"She judges him (allicent to aegon) less harshly." She literally disowns him so not really.

[@AnonYmous-qq2vo]

She disowns aegon privately but she didn’t go around trying to undermine his legitimacy of the throne to viserys and the other lords like she did rhaenyra

[@Meme-jo7uj]

@@AnonYmous-qq2vo why would she support Rhaenyra’s claim if her goal is to advance her son as heir?!

[@AnonYmous-qq2vo]

@@Meme-jo7uj I never said Alicent should support rhaenyras claim, I was saying that despite Alicent “disowning” aegon she didn’t completely disown him if she’s still supporting his claim to the throne, instead of any of her other children so her “disowning” him is irrelevant theater

[@tiathompson6674]

The King stated Rhaenyra would be Queen. End of discussion.

[@raerants]

It's ok to have biases; I'm team Black. We, as viewers, should try to understand Martin's grey characters and violent world. If his works were that black and white, they wouldn't be that interesting.

[@radiofreeacab]

Subscribed, narration is v soothing