Why Building Ski Lifts Is Incredibly Hard

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[@DEADB33F]

My dad always told me that the first stage of building a ski lift was to take a massive reel of cable the size of a house to the top of a mountain then get a couple of big strong blokes to push it off the edge. ....Then it rolls downhill clearing the trees & stuff and wherever the reel ends up is where you build the bottom station.

[@CD3MC]

If you look up the peak to peak gondola documentary it's comical what they had to do to get the haul cable up to the top of the mountain. Literally rebuilt the road, then connected every vehicle they had together to drag the cable up the mountain.

[@cvn6555]

Sounds a lot like how they know what the weight limit for a bridge was explained to Calvin by his Dad.

[@John-tx1wk]

@@cvn6555 Thus far only 19 people, including myself, are old enough to remember the Calvin and Hobbes comic, much less that particular one. I found a website that has all the Calvin and Hobbes comics and lists when they were in the paper. The bridge comic was from November 26, 1986. "Dear, if you don't know the answer, just tell him!"

[@cvn6555]

@@John-tx1wk I always figured that the dad was getting a little payback on his son for all the stuff he pulled. I must admit I did the same to my own kids on several occasions. Telling outlandish fabrications has been one of the greatest joys of fatherhood.

[@elliottheckard3960]

@@John-tx1wk what’s this website that sounds awesome

[@Fay7666]

4:53 I actually wouldn't be that surprised if Disney had actually bought such a company. Imagineering has dabbled in transport systems many times, WDW has a lift system, and I wouldn't be that surprised if they had plans to develop them further for their own parks & resorts, or try and get into selling them as systems for others.

[@sizanogreen9900]

Yeah, they really get their greedy little mouse fingers anywhere they can...

[@deleted-something]

Same

[@brianbeach3024]

The timing would have made about sense too for the Skyliner at Walt Disney World

[@quillmaurer6563]

Possibly - back in the day they were about a lot more than the entertainment industry, Walt Disney wanted to re-imagine the future of all aspects of human civilization, and the Disney World complex was originally intended more as a future civilization testbed than a theme park. "EPCOT," Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow, a planned company-owned city (debatable if this whole idea was utopian or dystopian). Since his death I don't get that sense as much, the EPCOT city plan was abandoned, so that idea feels more plausible in the past than present. There actually was sort of an example of this development of transportation technologies, they designed a linear induction powered train system, the WEDway PeopleMover, which they built as a ride at Disneyland and planned to be the public transit system of EPCOT, but offered as a people mover to other users - the only other user in the end was George Bush Intercontinental Airport in Houston, which to my knowledge is still in use but due for replacement.

[@cianor]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Skyliner was made by one of these companies

[@vwvictorw]

Currently works in a smaller ski resort. Most of our lifts are Doppelmayr (Including our two 4-seaters) but now I now i finally realized why the small button lift in the kids area is unoffically known as Poma. Fun fact: It's more common for small resorts to buy used lifts than brand new ones. Our "new" 4-seater is 20 years old, even though it was opened less than a month ago.

[@zaphod4245]

I think Poma have a patent on the button lift design, so they've become known as Poma lifts as well because only Poma build them. Honestly I vastly prefer them to T-bars, I've skied more in France than anywhere else where button lifts are common and T-bars are almost non existent, but when I have been to places with t-bars I've hated them lol

[@vwvictorw]

@@zaphod4245 I think the patent has expired, since at least one of our button lifts are from Doppelmayr. I much prefer them too, at least from a work perspective as it's much easier to get small kids used to button lifts compared to the T-bars

[@zaphod4245]

@@vwvictorw So I went and did some more digging into this, and so the term "Poma lift" only refers to the button lifts which are detatchable from the cable, which you grab at the bottom and then they attatch and you go. Poma holds a patent for their design of that, and have done since 1936, so no other company can build those dtatchable surface lifts. But Poma don't have a patent for the 'button' design, so Doppelmayr do make button lifts, but theirs are fixed to the cable and have an extendable spring loaded cable that you pull down. Poma also make lifts like that as well as the detatchable ones, but the Doppelmayr button lifts at your resort must be the fixed type then?

[@luc4662]

@@zaphod4245 wow, so THAT's the reason for the two design, so cool ! Personally, I find the Poma-style easier to use (the ones with a spring loaded coiled rope can be hard to grab IMO), but mostly I find their engineering really awesome... The entire reason the rigid rod advance with the cable as opposed to sliding backward is thanks to the weight of the rider, which increases friction between the attachment point and the cable. I think it's very clever.

[@runeraid1561]

Huh. My local resort just upgraded a 4 seater to an express lift and sold the old one to another resort. Wonder if you’re the one who got it lol

[@Erik_Arnqvist]

This can definitely be said about most things. But speaking from personal experience, there’s a lot more going on working on ski resorts than people give credit for. I was on the snow building team but naturally got a peek into the operation as a whole.

[@brettvv7475]

@Correct Begone BOT!

[@tommyfrank5896]

I got a degree in Ski Area Management and I can confirm this. This video could be almost an hour going over every single standards of building a ski lift in America

[@NeonSprawl]

You missed a glorious joke by not saying a "peak into the operation"

[@Erik_Arnqvist]

​@@NeonSprawl True... :)

[@rachel705]

@@tommyfrank5896 You can get a degree in that?? From where? Did it turn out to be a good choice for you?

[@dominik4759]

Hti group and dopelmayer group both have their headquaters in Austria. I think that is a relativ interesting fact that wasnt mentioned in the video.

[@TheGlobetrotter7811]

I thought the same... a major missed chance to make an unfunny joke about Kangaroos 😀

[@racecarrik]

@@TheGlobetrotter7811 Austria has kangaroos?! No way!

[@luipaardprint]

@@racecarrik yes, I see them all the time when I go snowboarding there.

[@zaphod4245]

Yeah. Like the wendover ski resort video this is a purely US centred view of ski resorts. Shame really as it neglects the fact that Europe has far more ski resorts and has far bigger ones than the US or Canada. And the resorts here (for the most part) have far more modern and better maintained lift systems, destination resorts in Europe have very few if any fixed grip chairlifts nowadays, but they're painfully common still in even the biggest and most famous American destination resorts. Perhaps a video on the differences in the economics and operation of European vs North American resorts would be interesting.

[@aciid_0]

@@zaphod4245 About sums up Wendover.... don't think he's ever spent more than a few months outside the great big US-of-A

[@FacterinoCommenterino]

Today's fact: 4% of the sand on Normandy beach is made up of shrapnel from D-Day that has broken down.

[@E-dart]

Interesting

[@Christian87DK]

X

[@thatdude9091]

Together, we can increase this.

[@bradj977]

​@@thatdude9091yes.

[@djscottdog1]

Thats definitely not true , if it was it wpuld be worth mining it.

[@jthomp997]

Last week I rode up with the head maintenance guy for my main ski resort and it's interesting cause he was telling me about how small resorts like them have to start getting the licenses and qualifications to self certify most things otherwise it would be so expensive that they would go out of business. Interesting guy and a interesting career

[@tommyfrank5896]

Rewarding career I love every day of my job as a ski lift mechanic

[@AnnuityTable]

@@tommyfrank5896 If I may ask, if you went to college, what did you get your degree in?

[@cvn6555]

That sort of thing has happened in nearly every industry. The heavy hitters encourage legislation that makes it extremely expensive, given the economies of scale, for the little guys to comply. Legislators love these regulations because they can claim to be protecting the public and point to the support from many in the industry. In reality, it is logrolling for the big guys to eliminate their competition. You are seeing it happen in health care as reimbursement rates are better for the largest regional healthcare providers and, being enormous, they can spread out the compliance costs over far more patient encounters. This is why so many local hospitals have had to sell out to the big, faceless, soulless regionals- the system has been rigged against them.

[@tommyfrank5896]

@@AnnuityTable Ski Area Management. It’s an associate program at Gogebic College in Michigan

[@jthomp997]

@@AnnuityTable the guy I talked too told me there's one at Oregon (might've been Oregon state) specifically in lift maintenance/mechanics

[@AlexClark1701]

When you said Disney I totally believed you at first because of the Skyliner they installed at WDW around that time. Totally makes sense that Imagineering would've acquired a brand like that lol.

[@ilovewindex487]

The sky liner was built by doppelmayr

[@davy360]

Fun fact: Doppelmayr and Leitner are from Vorarlberg and South Tyrol (directly on the border to Austria). I find it funny that two companies, nearly both from Austria cornered the whole Skilift market. You don't see that in too many industries.

[@marcojauner1652]

The other two companies, who are the other completebuilders are located in Flums, Switzerland (35 Km from Doppelmayr away) and Poma in Grenoble, France

[@gabriel.33]

@@marcojauner1652 but Poma is owned Leitner AG since 2000

[@maximvf]

Herrenknecht and Lovat are similar, these two gathered everything else in TBM market.

[@DoppelmayrGroup]

@@marcojauner1652 Bartholet of Flums has been taken over by HTI in 2022 ;)

[@jacktattersall9457]

@@maximvf Lovat was bought by Caterpillar, whcih exited the TBM business. The big player other than German Herrenknecht is American Robbins.

[@KO47893]

This makes me think of the elevator industry. I've worked in the AEC industry for quite some time, and I can't recall ever seeing a project that had something other than an Otis or a Thyssenkrupp elevator, and I can't remember ever being on an elevator and noticing it was something different. Maybe an idea for a future video?

[@quuxjn2452]

Interresting. Here in Switzerland virtually every elevator and escalator is made by 'Schindler' or their daughter company 'AS Aufzüge'.

[@draskocis]

Yup, ThyssenKrupp and Schindler everywhere in Europe

[@schwig44]

@@draskocis damn, most americans have never heard of thyssenkrupp, and those that have know them as the place to go for white and red metals like aluminum and copper, respectively, and their alloys. Never knew they had a division doing elevators.

[@jonas1015119]

@@schwig44 they have a giant elevator testing tower in germany, I think Tom Scott did a video on it

[@timowagner1329]

@@quuxjn2452 yes, came to say Schindler is important too, afaik the second largest elevator manufacturer in the world. Also there is a fourth giant, KONE.

[@mcgonzo1961]

Me, a liftie watching this on my lunch break: Seems about right, but I’m disappointed that you didn’t mention how heavy the cables themselves are

[@cvn6555]

I watched a video last year about the splicing of the ends of the lift cable. Incredible. Rode on lifts for decades but never thought about it.

[@bodimarzka3682]

Hey there! I know this is kind of late but I’m actually currently building the Challenger lift in Sun Valley, ID. It uses a 56 mm steel cable that (when on its spool) weighs 150,000 pounds. To pull the haul rope we actually use dyneema first, then 3/8 steel cable, then 1 1/8 cable, and then finally the haul rope. That way it can handle the stress and weight of the haul rope when we pull it using a beefy winch. 🤙

[@Slenderman12342]

Ayyyyy dirtbag lifty let's go. I also built a ski lift shits hard as fuck

[@catchampjade]

Its always weird to see the industry I work in talked about because its something 99% of people dont think about at all. The logistics for working on ski resorts is massive but most of it takes place in a way that the public never sees.

[@realfast2255]

Awesome look into this industry. I worked for Poma back in the late 90s through mid 2000s. Absolutely the best job ever. We built all the new lifts at Killington and the gondola at Gore Mountain. Fly day was always the best with Carson and Ericsson heavy lift helicopters. Never a dull moment!

[@Slenderman12342]

I built a new ski lift with them this year first time doing a construction job. Was so hard but damn the cool shit you see and do is unreal.

[@sammyfunnybunny339]

It would be cool to see a video like this about snowmakeing at ski reports, and the companies that make the snow guns! I think it would be a really interesting and something not to many people know about

[@graffie88]

It’s not magic 😂 it’s air and water mixed at high pressure pushed out a tiny nozzle to produce a crystal it has a binding agent added (non toxic and environmentally friendly) so it sticks together and becomes more dense making pack snow, as for the types of snowmaking equipment you got fan guns stick guns and portable snow guns and some even have high temperature nozzles so resorts can make snow in temperatures that are milder then they used to!

[@mmc4654]

FunFact: The HTI Group does not only offer ropeways (Leitner / Poma), but also snow groomers (Prinoth) and sow cannons (DemacLenco)

[@dkniberg]

1:08 "For a typical four-person chairlift" *shows typical two-person chairlift* 3:15 "Including the detachable chairlift" *shows detachable gondola, followed by non-detachable chairlift* 3:19 "But could detach from overhead cables by way of high powered clamps" *shows some kind of surface lift? idk, definitively lacking those high powered clamps at least* Is Sam intentionally trolling or is there just a general shortage of ski-lift related stock footage?

[@lizzeyflower]

As someone who worked at Disney world in the skyliner section. This video had made much more sense to me then any of my colleagues explained to me. Once again this video was very helpful for information use thank you

[@poulette2937]

did they ever talk about buying skytrac though ?

[@Brickabrac]

3:15 in the background you can see the label "Girak". Girak is a former Austrian ski-lift company and was famous in central and eastern europe. They produced fix gripped chairlifts as well as detachable chair- and gondola lifts. When Girak was absorbed by Garaventa in 1996, they started building surface lifts like t-bars, too. Finally, Doppelmayr took over Garaventa in 2002 which led to their breaktrough in the international ropeway construction industry.

[@delinquente1444]

Why do you have this knowledge

[@Brickabrac]

@@delinquente1444 I study history

[@delinquente1444]

@@Brickabrac this is not history wtfthis is trivia

[@Dave_Sisson]

Doppelmayr was building ski lifts long before then. They built their first double chairlift in 1964 at a ski resort in Australia or all places, and they were building surface lifts for years before that.

[@Brickabrac]

@@Dave_Sisson i never denied that. I said Doppelmayr merged with Garaventa (which took over Girak earlier) which was Doppelmayr's breaktrough in the International ropeway construction industry

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

Can't be a coincidence that HAI and Adam something just made videos back to back about gondolas?

[@quuxjn2452]

Yes but they are not really comparable. HAI was just like: "Maybe you don't know about this so let me introduce it to you" and Adam just completely roasted them.

[@yeetyeet7070]

Did you see Adam Somethings uninformed video about nuclear power? He talks waay too much about shit he knows nothing about. still watching him after that video is kinda cringe dude

[@Cal90208]

@@yeetyeet7070 Can you send a link? What Adam?

[@vytah]

@@yeetyeet7070 What was wrong with that video? Except for the Masterworks sponsorship of course.

[@soundscape26]

@@vytah Yeah, I find it quite ironic Adam being sponsored by something like Masterworks. 😄

[@hitnovak]

Let's address the elephant in the room; during WW1 Austria and Italy had this thing where they were fighting in the Alps and they built countless ropeways to transport military equipment, personnel, and just about everything else to the battlefield and back. After the war was over, the two countries had plenty of ropeway engineers, the necessary supply chains, and people needed to build them. So while Doppelmayr (an Austrian company) and Leitner (an Italian company) could just hire those people to design and build ski lifts, other companies had to pretty much invent everything from scratch, which is why they had so many accidents and why these two companies eventually took over the entire ropeway market.

[@DoppelmayrGroup]

Doppelmayr built its first ski lifts in 1937 - that's almost 20 years after the end of WW1. We came from cutting gears and building common elevators in houses.

[@thekrakenrises9040]

@@DoppelmayrGroup wait are you actually the Doppelmayr company's KZbin channel? thanks for the information, but it's quite rare to see corporations interacting with KZbin comments on random vidoes haha :)

[@hitnovak]

@@DoppelmayrGroup Yes, both companies only started major ropeway production much later (although Leitner did make a few ropeways even before WW1). However, the Alpine region has long been the centre of ropeway development, and with over 1700 km or ropeways built during WW1 and countless important innovations, the region offers a unique opportunity for ropeway technology.

[@MrHariSheldon]

There were ropeways built years before WW1, first mainly for material transports and later, the first real tourist-centric gondola was built in Switzerland ("Wetterhorn-Aufzug") in 1905. So, while WW1 probably played a role, it was not the reason why ropeways exist.

[@oliversissonphone6143]

Do you have a source for this..?

[@backmeen3099]

HTI and Doppelmayer both have their headquaters in Austria

[@nilsekluund]

And that's why all ski resorts in Austria have brand new 8 seats chairlifts

[@derfetch]

its both funny but also super weird for me, a european, to see how skiing in the us is. ski patrol on the slopes keeping people in check, passes that work sort of like a drivers license that can be revoked and things like that. while the lifts are mostly older models and many people dont even put the bar down. in comparison to europe, the skiing in the slopes is not controlled at all, yet the lifts are super modern and the bar goes down automatically at some as well. (note: most of my us knowledge is from videos on yt and only some from friends that have actually skied in the us)

[@d.jensen5153]

derfetch: You're right about not putting the bar down. Sometimes my wife or daughter will put it down but I rarely do. As far as modernity goes, I haven't been on a non-detachable chairlift in many years. Who has the time?? Finally, there are rules about skiing slowly on the bunny runs or near the bottom of the lifts. But on the intermediate and advanced runs beyond the bunny slopes...I've never heard a person say a thing. My GPS receiver informs me that I often ski 74 mph (119 kmh) on a run called Paradise.

[@jacktattersall9457]

Doppelmayr is Austrian and Poma is French. So you only names their USA subsidiaries.

[@zaphod4245]

Like the wendover ski resort video this is a purely US centred view of ski resorts. Shame really as it neglects the fact that Europe has far more ski resorts and has far bigger ones than the US or Canada. And the resorts here (for the most part) have far more modern and better maintained lift systems, destination resorts in Europe have very few if any fixed grip chairlifts nowadays, but they're painfully common still in even the biggest and most famous American destination resorts. Perhaps a video on the differences in the economics and operation of European vs North American resorts would be interesting.

[@christophsaviation2045]

Finally someone who names it. I am used to ski resorts like Vorarlberg with multiple hundreds of kilometres of slope and I was really stunned when I saw what Americans called a „big“ king area. Also here we have 6-8 seat chairlifts with sometimes heated seating and stuff while in the US and Canada I discovered they didn’t even slow down at the station for most of them.

[@mack.attack]

@@christophsaviation2045 ?? Not sure where you were but 6 seat chairs that slow down in the station are extremely common here in Utah

[@jul7985]

Couldn't agree more. I was confused when he said "typical four person chairlift" bc most chairlifts in Europe have 6-8 person capacity, combined with automatic bars and heated seating...

[@jthomp997]

You're only thinking of east coast resorts. West coast resorts are among the best between Canada, Alaska, Utah, and the Pacific NW. Most of these have the latest technology along side europe.

[@mack.attack]

Part of the reason ski areas are not as extensive in the US is because a ski area extending over ridge after ridge of mountains with development and lifts all over the place would be perceived as a colossal eyesore and a bit of a rape of public unspoiled wilderness here. People already find the scale of Vail and PCMR appalling here.

[@majorfallacy5926]

4:26 weirdly america-centric choice of a factoid here given that the parent companies are also within a few hours of each other in europe

[@ThePCguy17]

Interesting to know why the old J-bar I used to ride was called a 'poma,' and why the towers that I go past on chair lifts all say 'riblet' on them.

[@davidjackson148]

As a skier this is the first funny and genuinely interesting video about something. I'm still waiting for the "Bricks" one!!

[@Jtowchi]

They made a bricks one

[@EebstertheGreat]

The bricks video is on Nebula.

[@davidjackson148]

@@EebstertheGreat but is wasn't a serious and proper one it was just some joke thing

[@EebstertheGreat]

@@davidjackson148 But we got to learn a lot about standard-size modern steel die-extruded bricks attributed to Cyrus Chambers but actually invented in St. Petersburg 69 years earlier. We learned about the first fired bricks in history in the walled Chengtoushan settlement in Hunan province in 4400 BC. We learned about the sun-dried mud bricks in Aswan in the 8th millennium BC. We learned about mortar and about the Flemish bonding method. We learned how to make our own bricks out of rice hulls, clay-rich dirt, sand, and water. We even got to hear about the Belden 503-505 modular and the Belden 830 Jumbo Norman slim bricks. What more could you want?

[@davidjackson148]

@@EebstertheGreat have I missed a video? The one I saw didn't have any of that in. I think I have to check or rewatch

[@nicolascommisso3151]

Sidenote : the first try in urban transportation by Poma was the Poma2000 in Laon, France, built in the 80s. It was a 1.5km 3-stations long automated mini-metro meant to create a link between the high and low parts of the city. It worked for almost 30 years before being stopped due to its high cost of operation for a 25k inhabitants city. It was pushed by the government at the same time as the still-developped VAL and the iconic ARAMIS program which was shut down before reaching its end but offered an enormous legacy for automatisation of transit.

[@Panakotta000]

I wish this would have been a full Wendover video, as it could also probably have prevent quite some issues and misleading information

[@niklasgermann]

0:23 Side Fact: Doppelmayr is literally based in my home town Wolfurt in Austria (8.000 Citizens)

[@marcojauner1652]

Ui, mein beileid... 😂😉

[@niklasgermann]

@@marcojauner1652 Wieso? 😂

[@froglovesnoone]

stock footage on steroids

[@CarterHancock]

5:15 It's funny how people say they don't want public transit to be controlled by a few big corporations but are then fine with it being controlled by one corporation - the government.

[@DeepakThakur24]

Along with half as interesting facts, Sam teaches us how to make the best and most efficient use of stock footage, on this channel.

[@rixrobin]

I was curious to see if this also applied to the sky buckets that you see at amusement parks and from what I could find most of them where built by von roll holding AG which was acquired by Doppelmayr back in 1996.

[@mmc4654]

Von Roll was one of the first companies to introduce detachable lifts / gondolas. Until the 1980s, there were numerous manufacturers of ropeway systems, with Von Roll being the market leader for a long time. Then a period of market consolidation began, with smaller companies being acquired. Von Roll lost its grip and has been sold to Doppelmayr. The Duopoly emerged around the millennium, especially with the fusion of Poma and Leitner (now HTI) and the fusion of Doppelmayr and Garaventa

[@CBF1]

@@mmc4654 Von Roll built the world's first detachable chairlift in Flims Laax Falera in Switzerland in 1945. It was replaced in 1986. The lift that's there now(a Garaventa) is also doomed... Modern ski lifts are just evil as are the manufacturers. I'd much rather have 30+ local manufacturers(which is what we had over 40 years ago) than just 4 global bastards.

[@The_Copper_Element_Itself]

4:57 why did i believe that as an actual possibility lmao

[@RustyRacer]

June to October: *ignores half of the planet*

[@armaanpremjee146]

Watching your video is really interesting because just like you I also learned to ski in the US and last year I decided to give Europe a go. Went to Zermatt and Courchevel and absolutely loved it. This year I’ve planned a Europe ski trip to explore more resorts. I definitely like Europe better since there’s better quality food, good apres skiing, walkable towns without the need for a car, and more affordable lift tickets like you said. The only downside is that snow isn’t reliable like the US. And yes, there isn’t always one gondola or lift that takes you all the way to the top. You kind of need to connect and usually remove skis before you can get in the gondola which is annoying

[@Respectable_Username]

That reminds me of this one old chair lift at a place I used to ski with my family. It didn't slow down on the turn, so the operator had to this well-timed push-forward-hold-back manoeuvre to slow the swinging seat down enough to let skiiers get on without having their legs accidentally amputated! It was on one of the more difficult slopes though so they weren't expecting beginner skiers to have to deal with it 😛

[@Josh.Davidson]

There weren’t detachable lifts until the mid 80s or so.

[@granteeeeast]

Super cool! I actually toured the doppelmayr factory in Salt Lake City a week or so ago, cool stuff!

[@darklordboehm428]

It's crazy to see my hometown on this channel. Grand junction deserves its own history video with the crazy shit that's happened there

[@SirBilliam96]

Little known fact: when you pay to ski at a resort, you are NOT paying for mountain access. You are paying for chair lift access, because these resorts are almost always on national park/forest land. You can walk to the top of any ski resorts mountain and ski/board down for free, as long as you don't walk in the middle of open runs. The moment you get tired of doing that and want the easy way up, that's when you have to pay. So if you have thighs of steel to walk up a mountain and ride down it in a few minutes just to do it again, go have fun! P.S. I just realized that the resort I go to all the time for skiing still has 2 Yan lifts in operation, which disturbs me now that I know they are defunct.

[@Croz89]

Not exactly little known here since Wendover did a video on this a couple of years ago. Plus this only applies to resorts in North America.

[@SkiDaBird]

It's super common to have lifts from defunct manufacturers. Ski areas are still able to get parts for the lifts and the YAN fixed grips are reliable.

[@PsRohrbaugh]

Me, who has only seen snow twice in my life: neat.

[@lucaspena6827]

The Mi Teleferico system in La Paz, Bolivia is amazing! I used to live there and it offers such a quick and beautiful commute.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

Duopoly on a relative low volume product will indeed lead to very high prices. I never thought about how much goes into building the complete ski lift and that it has to be done during a specific time of the year. Interesting.

[@cvn6555]

It's like anything when you buy a name-brand product. You pay more for the name. BUT that name comes with a lot of experience and engineering. You buy a Porsche and you pay far more than what comparable vehicles cost but, the insane attention to detail and highest levels of engineering make them not really comparable to other vehicles.

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

@@cvn6555 The difference is that I have options besides Porsche such as BMW, Audi, Mercedes Ben., Ferrari, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Bentley, Lamborghini,etc. Porsche must continue to innovate or keep prices in check where as in a duopoly, less inovaton and less prices checking is done.

[@cvn6555]

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson These choices are not all the same, though. Quite a few of those are not suitable as daily drivers nor are they dependable. Driving dynamics and feel will not be equal to a Porsche. Or you will be spending ludicrous amounts of money for something that is marginally better in a few ways but worse in others. No other company makes vehicles with the combination of performance, feel, reliability and relative value that Porsche does. And their history of innovation is widely known. You know what you are getting and you are getting that which can not be duplicated elsewhere. Same thing with going to a place like Disney- you know you are being charged way more than other places but nobody does it as well and you can't get the experience elsewhere. Same with these lift providers- nobody else has the same history, capability, reliability, etc.

[@leocheri2433]

I'm just on a skiing holiday. And exactly yesterday I've wondered, how do they build these Lifts. So thanks😂

[@halothefluffyderg]

One thing I have long wondered over is just exactly how they get those kilometer long free hanging cables up mountains?

[@Panakotta000]

The pull a light small cable or rope using a helicopter... the lift them up over the supports... then the attach a new slightly bigger cable to the end of that thing cable/rope and pull it up the hill... the repeat this multiple times till they then pull the final cable if you have a wide span without a support in between, sometimes climbers have to get to some places to install temporary protections so that the cable doesnt slide across the ground and getting damaged... so the install some rolles on necessary places... once enough force is applied to the cable so it spans the area freely, those protections will get removed

[@herrensaar1989]

Usually drrag the roll to the bottom, and slowly fly it up the mountain with a chopper, splicing new cble in every few kilometers

[@mikatu]

This makes sense and it happens with every industry. Someone creates a market, if it profitable new companies will keep joining, until it is no longer profitable. Then the only way to grow is to acquiring the existent companies or to inovate. Just think about how many car brands you know that were absorved by other groups and how many new brands we see appearing? The markets are not elastic, up to a certain point no new companies will be able to operate, especially when you require experience as a way to sell your product.

[@justanotherguy2824]

Fun fact: The smallest Doppelmayr gondola system is installed in Riegersburg/Austria at the Zotter Schokolademanufaktur, a local chocolate manufacturer. When you make a tour through the production site - which is a very popular leisure activity probably because you can taste and eat as much chocolate as you want in hundreds of variations - at one station you will be served with bars of drinking chocolate by a Doppelmayr system. You select your favourite chocolate bar from a gondola passing by, hand it to a bartender and he/she will prepare the chocolate drink for you.

[@vonrollskyway1]

No mention of Von Roll. The inventor of the detachable monocable grip in 1945 known as the VR 101 still in use today. Von Roll was a huge innovator in the ropeway industry. The inventor of the 3s system, breaking systems on aerial trams,funicular and detachable monocable ropeways. Doppelmayr still uses Von Roll technology in there lifts today.

[@CBF1]

Yeah I think we know a bit more about these lifts... It's depressing how people don't find these mechanical works of art interesting. All that most people are interested in these days are the un-interesting crap that they see on TV all the time...

[@MrHariSheldon]

Yes, without von Roll, Giovanola and other pioneers, Garaventa and Doppelmayr would not be that big today. Similarly probably Poma-Leitner, but I do not know them that well.

[@CBF1]

@@MrHariSheldon Poma's old lifts were and still are my favourites. I grew up with Poma's very first gondola lift, I got my passion for ski lifts from it. It sadly was slaughtered upon the orders of the STVI(Societe Telepheriques Val D'Isere) and the CDA(Compagnie Des Alpes) in 2018 for a crappy modern Poma-branded-and-cased-and-pulleywheeled Leitner lift.

[@hedgehog3180]

The most difficult part of this video was convincing the viewer that a duopoly was at all shocking under late stage capitalism.

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

Oh, how cool that Doppelmayr is right here in MY state, Utah, whose 127th birthday was just yesterday (01/04/2023) from when I'm watching this video, where the ski slogan is "Greatest snow on Earth" and where the 2002 Winter Olympics were held!

[@woodlandcollective]

Why do some of your videos have captions entirely disabled? It's fine if you don't want to do captions yourself, but as someone who's hard of hearing, it seems completely pointless to remove the auto-generated captions, and it makes it so much harder to actually watch your content, because I can almost never actually hear what folks are saying :(

[@ricequackers]

It takes some time for YT to auto-generate the captions. Give it a couple of hours and they should appear.

[@woodlandcollective]

@@ricequackers I wouldn't mention this if it wasn't for the fact that previous videos also don't have captions... but oh well. Guess Ill just watch something else for now.

[@joshuahawkes7218]

@@woodlandcollective KZbin recently deleted a load of community-added subtitles for some reason, so that might have something to do with it.

[@woodlandcollective]

@@joshuahawkes7218 Support for community subtitles ended several months ago, and it is... honestly just spitting in the face of everyone who needs or wants subtitles. I never realized just how much corporations are AGAINST accessibility. Because, ya know, if you're not perfectly abled in every way, clearly you don't deserve to even use a website /s

[@ricequackers]

@@joshuahawkes7218 Seriously? That's frustratingly stupid.

[@yatsumleung8618]

Hong Konh Ngong Ping 360 was built by Leitner, now under HTI. There's no snow in HK, but typhoons in summer and the 5.7km/ 3.5 mile system must traverse high altitude country parks with only 9 pylons. The pylons were made large, super sturdy and flown in in pieces with the S-64 Skycrane helicopter! All had to be completed quickly before typhoons arrived.

[@samhelton6994]

Don't forget about CTEC (who was bought by Garaventa, and then by Doppelmeyer), they are the ones who put Riblet and Yan out of business.

[@Coasterpostalt]

Remember there are still some other independent lift companies. In Europe Leitner still operates seperately, Bartholet and MND are independent from the duopoly, and even Partek still operates independently. Those are just a few, and while I’m aware that they are much smaller I thought it was worth mentioning!

[@baileykeller288]

At 5:23 you say gondola and show a tram onscreen. Your 2 hour long apology video is due by the end of the week.

[@quuxjn2452]

Mybe you should get glasses. That's definetly a gondola.

[@henriaasi2102]

@@quuxjn2452 Nah, at least in Europe, Gondolas are the ones with many smaller cabins for 4-15 persons, and the ones with only two big cabins for around 80 people are aerial tramways/trams

[@quuxjn2452]

@henriaasi2102 here in Switzerland (which is in Europe, in case you didn't know), both are called gondolas and to specify if it's a big one or a small one we use Umlaufbahn (circulation gondola) or Pendelbahn (pendulum gondola)

[@henriaasi2102]

@@quuxjn2452 But Bahn in German doesn't mean gondola in English. Isn't Gondelbahn the same as Umlaufbahn, but you can't say that a Pendelbahn is a Gondelbahn, right? Or maybe I have misunderstood.

[@quuxjn2452]

@henriaasi2102 it's hard to explain, but long story short, it depends on the context. Yes, strictly speaking, a Gondelbahn is a Umlaufbahn, but most times, people will still call a Pendelbahn a Gondelbahn or Gondel even though this technically not correct. And usually, they call it a Gross(-raum) Gondel (Big(-room) gondola.

[@josvandenbroek5014]

What a coincidence, I am making plans to do an internship somewhere in the USA or Canada for my study. And on my top 5 list I’ve written Doppelmayr and Leitner-Poma as potential companies I think I want to solicit at.

[@Genny207]

Could have stopped at Disney, and I _definitely_ would have believed you with no questions asked.

[@jalenkorr]

As a engineer that works at ski resort planning and cable cars... it's a really acurate explanation. Congrats! If you're interested, happens the same with the industries of snowmaking and snowgroomers (sorry bad englinsh, non native person)

[@marcojauner1652]

Prinoth (Snowgroomers) Demaclenko (snowcannons) are also HTI. Plus the last own company (Bartholet) was also bought by HTI in May 2022.

[@BokeemWoodbeezy]

Crazy, when he said Disney. I didn’t even know he was joking.

[@freedomfalcon]

Any other skiers and snowboarders shudder when they hear the name Poma and bring back memories of being dragged behind one because you fell, hanging on for dear life until you had to let go, hearing the plastic excuse of a seat snap back into the pole above you, and taking the walk of shame?

[@Bluefire397]

The coolest ski lift is Klein Matterhorn in Zermatt. They had to ship thousands of tonnes of concrete mixed with anti freeze up the mountain by helicopter in massive tanks to an altitude of almost 4000m. Bare in mind this was in the mid 1970's.

[@enricoalbatro179]

Funny fact about the two companies is that they both come from the same region of Italy, namely South Tyrol. Initially the ropeways were used them to carry building material to mountain shelter and private people that may not have a street connecting the house to the Main Street during winter due to snow and rugged terrain. Both companies now have different offices around the world, but they were both founded within 2h drive from one another. One of them, the Leitner Poma is also a duopoly in the snow making industry and the snow cat industry.

[@bbarber1066]

Leitner as a snowcat duopoly? Idk about Europe but Pistenbully and Prinoth reign Supreme in the US.

[@Simsen3142]

Doppelmayr originated in Vorarlberg in Austria and Garaventa originated in Switzerland, so this company does not come from italy But yes, Leitner was founded in South Tyrol

[@fastSPX_90]

Poma originates from somewhere in the french alps

[@fabianreusch4870]

@@bbarber1066 yes, Pistenbully is probably the most common snowcat here in europe too. It has a partly german name after all...

[@keithscothern3398]

@@bbarber1066 prinoth is owned byLP

[@seagie382]

they ALSO have to X-ray the weightbearing components every year, even in small eastern ski resorts!

[@logarhythmic6859]

3:46 For some reason I thought you meant the chairmen of the company murdered people, so I'm glad you added the graphic of the chairlift lol.

[@philrabe910]

Gosh it would be SO COOL for my island to have one or two lift lines over to Oakland- we are between two BART stations on the mainland, but getting to them by bus or car is very messy. I worked it all out. There is a large college campus at the north end ot the island and about 2 miles as the cable car flies to the West Oakland BART station, where one could go from curbside to platform level in about 6.5 minutes at average cable ca speed. On the south end of the island the easement would be more difficult but it would connect to the Fruitvale BART station where there is a 'transit village'. There are spots all over the BART system where a one or two mile cable car system would reach tens of thousands of riders who now take surface transportation. A cable car gondola across the Bay would be awesome for transit and tourism.

[@mikegroberman247]

As someone who trains lift operators I kind of like that there's only 2 companies, each one has their own control scheme that's pretty much universal between generations but not between manufacturers, for example on most Pomas "Emergency Stop" means deploy the emergency brake, with Doppelmayr it means aggressive electric braking, if you need the emergency brake on a Doppelmayr you need to push "Emergency Shutdown", this is one of many differences that would become nightmarish from a training perspective if there were tons of different manufacturers with tons of different ideas on how to control a chairlift. Also one of the many reasons you typically see resorts buying one or the other and rarely both.

[@Thebreakdownshow1]

Defiantly: Not as hard as getting off one lol especially when you are new skier like me.

[@MirzaAhmed89]

It's "definitely". Defiantly means something quite different.

[@daniyal-syed]

Definitely not as hard as spelling definitely right.

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

Defiantly less difficult than definitely flaunting the rules of spelling.

[@lucasplz2429]

​@@MirzaAhmed89 no it doesn't mean something quite different it means something done in a resistant or disobedient (defiant) nature

[@P4hko]

Ain't hard at all just stand up. But as whit everything whit skies when you get scared nothing works as you want. Do some meditation or somthing and control you emotions and you have passed 80% of the way to succes

[@moabfool]

When discussing overhead tramways don't forget the cable ore hauling systems used in mining in the 19th and 20th centuries. They were far less expensive than grading a road in rugged terrain, and they could be gravity powered because, unlike chairlifts and passenger gondolas, they most often transported their downhill instead of uphill. As for snow skiing, it has gotten prohibitively expensive for the average skier. When I started skiing one of the local resorts was charging $5 for a midweek lift pass, and they charged the princely sum of $7 on weekends. Another nearby resort was around $12. A $20 bill paid for a lift pass and on-mountain ski rental. When that resort raised their price to $20 for a day pass I felt scandalized! Today they charge $159 for a day pass. Oof! And don't forget that these are summer resorts as well. One summer in the 1990's I was hiking to a 10,000 foot+ peak when I heard a helicopter approaching. I wondered where it was when it ripped just a few feet off the ground and over the saddle/pass where I was standing and plunged down the other side. It had been contracted to install lift poles on a hillside to the west of where I was hiking. There was a fuel truck in the parking lot that would add fuel after every trip up the slope so the chopper didn't have to sacrifice load capacity by carrying a full tank. It looked like a Bell Huey, but it may have been a Bell 412.

[@jonathanazbell9596]

Super cool that you mentioned Grand Junction! It’s an awesome place!

[@yobb1n544]

Cool to see Doppelmayr in an HAI video!!

[@jul7985]

Best ski areas in the world in the US?? Theres ski areas in the alps that have 168 and 197 lifts. Alps>>>

[@planeguy649]

not in the us, but whistler canada is amazing.

[@RealPeetsRikeets]

Nice of you to make it seem like both groups, which are headquartered in and mostly made of European companies, are American…

[@TrolldaMeir]

They used to teach splicing wire rope as part of the education for a few building trades. The reason they don't anymore is the same as the reason there are so few qualified people allowed to do it: it's impossible to tell if it's been done right without taking it apart, so you basically have to trust the person who did it that they did it right.

[@laspedersen-wedekind2540]

Leitner is also a very popular company for ski lifts in europe. Actually Doppelmayr and leitner are the only companies that ski resorts buy there lifts from in europe.

[@kejsidedej3555]

leitner is the real owner of poma and every other hti product. hti only exists so they can manage their brands better.

[@pumpapaj8977]

Should have been mentioned that basically all these ski lift manufacturers are European. Only mentioning Idaho as a starting point for the industry gives the viewer a very US/Canadian-centric view which isn’t very accurate. The newest and most modern lifts are all introduced first in Austria, Switzerland, Italy and France, then in Sweden and Norway.

[@run6653]

I broke my arm snowboarding on the new year, and the next video you make is about the topic

[@Matkatamiba]

Always love learning about some random market here and seeing that it's also a duopoly like everything else.

[@Sawyerdoesstuff]

Poma is also a lift company. Killington has a fixed-grip quad by poma, and a high speed quad by Poma.

[@Maxman013_]

Wait why the hell is cable splicing so hard and why are there only like 3 people that can do it?

[@BB_Sebring]

I mean, how many people want to be liable for ski lifts that carry hundreds of thousands if not millions of skiers and snowboarders annually?

[@syriuszb8611]

It's probably not. It's just that you don't need that many people to do this since there are not that many cables to be spliced of that size. There are more workers splicing cables or ropes of different diameter. Why they don't use those other workers? Probably because why would they those two companies hire more than one or two splicers each, since they use them like four times a year or something? If the need and will would arise, there could be thousands of splicers for those ropes after few years of training.

[@zanebalkissoon5271]

This is definitely my fav one of Sam's videos now: I'm a nerd about Ski Lifts...

[@PatataMaxtex]

At 0:09 the mountain you made french isnt in france, it is in South Tyrol, Italy. And as someone who loves the area but hates the french (not really, but we have to pretend, no?) it makes me a bit angry!!! Please add this to your 2023 mistake video, thanks

[@zachrichardson7099]

I've mainly been to top tier resorts in the austrian and swiss alps and 95% of more modern lifts and dopplemayer

[@stephanieparker1250]

Ha, ok you got me with the Disney line. I was like OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS?! Oh.. he’s not.. 😅😅😅

[@BlaudracheLP]

The austrian Dual-Monarchy of Ski Lifts

[@LucaPasini2]

Kind of: Leitner is based in Sterzing, in South Tyrol, Italy

[@majorfallacy5926]

@@LucaPasini2 I think hti is austrian and poma is french, so basically it's alps all the way down.

[@LucaPasini2]

@@majorfallacy5926 Leitner recently also acquired other Italian manifacturers, such as Agudio

[@BlaudracheLP]

@@LucaPasini2 HTI sits in Linz and South Tyrol is Austria :^)

[@LucaPasini2]

@@BlaudracheLP At least the EU is doing a good job at making these disputes useless

[@nathank7006]

Was at copper mountain today, saw doppelmayr written on some of the newer lifts.

[@fragiggle]

I like this, pretty good summary. I really like how you used a picture of my co-worker

[@AlexanderRiehl]

You started with copper mountain, and I had flashbacks due to the concussion I got there the first day of skiing in December 2021. (Ouch!)

[@ShurikB93]

Actually Haifa had developed a gondola for transportation, It goes from the central bus station at sea level to the 2 universities, that are on the mountain

[@DoppelmayrGroup]

We are really proud of the Rakavlit cable car! A very useful installation for the students and commuters in Haifa.

[@ShurikB93]

@@DoppelmayrGroup I love it, I can go there with my bike. It is so awesome

[@alluriman]

Dare I say this was whole as interesting

[@ssnful123]

HAI learned about economies of scale and is now obsessed lol

[@StephenBradley2317]

I would argue that this channel should be renamed Twice as Interesting.

[@jonjanson2]

I am right by copper mountain right now. Family ski trip just checked in a couple hours ago. Want timing!

[@thurbine2411]

Nice timing for me. I just went skiing in Åre, Sweden and they just built a new lift to renlaven an old from the 70s.

[@thereal.axx04]

You forgot Leitner, that’s the principal cablecar society

[@stellar4677]

1:46 holy moly that's my dad

[@lz_sashko]

In Bulgaria we have lots of resorts but one gondola here has like 47 support towers with two mid stations from 1983

[@WhiteCatPatrolHD]

Shout out Banff sunshine village, place of work! they have one of the newest heated bubble lifts in Canada.

[@lufthansa380]

Both companies aren’t American, there European

[@robinyoutube7862]

They‘re ropes as they have a rope core, the main rope is called a haul rope. Lifties have to look at the rope as a morning check to see of the splice is ok, the rope is also checked to ensure it isn‘t coming apart.

[@existentialcrisisactor]

I love it when my home town gets a shot out! Gj ftw!

[@eeyjug9849]

I was so shocked too. Had no idea we were so important to ski lifts lol