Why buy a Prophet 5 when you can buy the Behringer pro 800?

[@synthnerd4539]

I've had a bunch of gear over the last 30 years, some of it expensive, some of it cheap - some of it old, some of it new - some of it original classics, some of it clones. And yeah I have a Prophet 5 and it's beautiful, I totally get you. I'm lucky to have been able to buy some nice things sometimes, and I enjoy and appreciate them every time I switch them on. But in the end what matters is that you're happy, and you enjoy your instruments, and you love making music, and the gear you have brings you joy and creative satisfaction, regardless of whether it's a beaten up thing nobody else cares about, or the most expensive museum piece, or that brand new thing everyone has. If you vibe with the gear, it's good. Side note, when I started with synths, we bought old analogue gear because it was everywhere and cheap. No DAWs, we used tape. If you wanted to multitrack sequences you needed a pile of hardware to achieve it. Funny how things turn round.

[@thesynthsofgus]

So cool! Thanks for sharing. I wish I could have a tape recorder but don’t have the space or knowledge on how to maintain it. Cheers!

[@MJanovicable]

So well put, thank you.

[@noisynois1670]

I never liked the sound of a prophet, it sounds like plugging

[@Magnus_Loov]

The Pro-800 is the "budget version" of the Prophet 600 which was in turn the budget version of the Prophet 5 so its very unfair to compare the Pro-800 against the Prophet 5, since it is kind of a budget synth of a budget synth of the Prophet 5.

[@noisynois1670]

yess

[@PsychologyAcademia]

I think your spot on. The music we make is a tactile experience. A visual experience. Thats the inspiration to create. Like i have a fountain pen instead of a cheap biro pen to write. It gives me a better moment. And thats all we have here on Earth. A brief moment in time. So you buy what inspires you. If you dont you are losing out that wonderful feeling and moment in the studio.

[@leftmono1016]

Agree about cheaper/newer being just as good, if not better. Speaking from experience as a former vintage synth collector.

[@TheMachinesWon]

Great comparison as it relates to HEROs and playing what they played. I've went the Behringer route for the Arp 2600 and 2500 but will likely grab a Prophet 10 someday for the reasons you explained. What's nice is we have options now and anyone can get what they can afford and what inspires them. Cheers!

[@thesynthsofgus]

Thank you! I love the Arp 2600. If I could afford another synth that would probably be the one I'd get.

[@robertball9009]

Every word spoken is 100 percent right. I enjoy your channel btw.

[@thesynthsofgus]

Thanks so much brotha

[@GNeuman]

Very good video, Gus. I like the way you used the guitar analogy. First time I've heard that used. I'm much older than you, tbh, this Behringer kit would have been absolutely brilliant if it had been released about 30 years ago for me. I've been lucky, like you, to have been able to purchase everything I've ever wanted in terms of vintage analogue synths over the years, so much so that I'm at the point now where I just cannot justify spending 3K plus on a synth so the Behringer gear is great for me too.

[@adammann9371]

I think if I'm paying a more expensive price I would expect it to be built different not just visually. I would be questioning the internal technology manufacturing process for example SMT or Through-hole and are there noticeable differences in the sound.

[@thesynthsofgus]

True! In the case of the Minimoog that remains true in a way but the p5 rev4 is a big wooden “empty” wooden box lol

[@adammann9371]

Yes the Minimoog is one that comes to mind Balaron and few others. I guess Wood can be costly these days 🤣

[@xntricity6446]

Well said, I agree with everything you said. I read the same old arguments online and it's tiring.

[@blueeyedsoulman]

I just can't play a keyboard without touch sensitivity and I prefer Aftertouch as well. I owned a Rev2 Prophet 5, PPG 2.2, Oberheim OBX, Moog Rogue and they were all a giant headache. I got rid of all that stuff. Not looking back. Pro-800 has touch sense but they are coming out with a full blown P5 with keys. When? Who knows.

[@100states6]

Why would you buy a P-800 if you can get a plugin that emulates the P-5? You can get very similar sounding results with all the three. Just the P-5 sounds the richest and warmest. To me the P-800 sounds quite static as a plugin does, too. Only the P-5 sounds very pleasing. (I think the new Oberheim is a killer!)

[@gourkernow5694]

A lot of people will also base their choice on the amount of available room they have in their studio.

[@thesynthsofgus]

True! it's very personal.

[@kvmoore1]

Good point! I agree with everything you said! Buy what you want. Buy what makes you feel good and inspires you to make music. If it's really expensive but you really can afford it, get it. You only live "ONCE." So, enjoy it and forget about what other people think about your purchase. They're not the ones who bought it or who's playing it, "YOU" are. Besides, everyone who works hard on their day job everyday deserves to treat themselves every once in a while and enjoy themselves. If you can't enjoy life and be happy, then what's the point in living? Well said!

[@thesynthsofgus]

Love this comment. Thanks!!

[@kvmoore1]

@@thesynthsofgus You're welcome!

[@Sonikbytes]

I would like a Moug but I can't afford and prices for new are just as ridiculous

[@MJanovicable]

Thank you so much for pointing out that synthesizers are tools. I think you'll want at least a few of the coming and existing analog clone models from Behringer as some of them aren't mere clones, they fixed original shortcomings in the engineering of the time, esp when corners had to be cut. One example was in the envelopes in the P-600; this and other issues were also a problem due to the poor processing power of 40+ years ago. The contracted engineers at Behringer PRO-800--and evolution, time--have erased most all of these issues and we have a version of what the PRO-600 might have been under better economic and technological circumstances. Many of Smith's designs were simply too far ahead of what processors were capable of. The SC PRO-600 was aimed at putting out a more affordable keyboard in 1982 as the Prophet-5 was considered shockingly expensive when it came out. It also had a lot of problems with the build quality, had lots of bugs, and could be unreliable on the road, which was common. The PRO-600 was so similar to the P-5 at the time it failed to impress, but what did was the price tag, it cost less and had one more note of polyphony. But corners were cut due to the beginning decline in sales for the company. (See the 2015 book on Sequential Circuits, The Prophet of Silicon Valley, by David Abernathy for more detail.) You narrow things down to the essential issues at hand with the mystique of the originals, which I support. Who doesn't want an original Prophet-5? But there are only so many out there, parts are becoming more scarce, and as anyone knows about electronics, they do not improve with age. Eventually, many of the owners will be forced to replace the original interior parts and circuitry, and you won't have an original but for the body and various other parts and accessories. I've played many of the originals and don't feel that they were great with interfacing. However, the P-5 is an exception to this; this is why it's still considered a very expressive synthesize, part of why it is so prized. I've used an original ARP Odyssey--I can tell you there is virtually no difference to the sound generated and that the build and interface of the original was clunky. It had a plastic body; the Behringer Odyssey has a metal one, and its build and interfacing are superior by leaps. You're right: it's not the gear, it's down to YOU, the creator of music. The guys up in Chicago who created House music were using castaway TR-606s and 808s because they didn't sell at the time, people hated them due to their very narrow range--exactly what worked for the creators of House. It's down to the individual. All of the Behringer gear I've bought of these so-called clones interface far better than the originals ever could.

[@thesynthsofgus]

Thanks so much for sharing this!

[@MJanovicable]

@@thesynthsofgus My pleasure. I only use Stanley vintage hammers from 1922. It's analog. It's chic, and very yesterday!

[@joxer96]

Perfectly said! Use the tools that inspire you (provided you can afford them). Stevie Ray Vaughan could have used a Squier Strat, but he didn’t. Oscar Peterson could have made a Casio electric piano sound incredible, but he played a Steinway. I realize those are not perfect analogies, but I think you get the point. BTW, not sure if it’s still in the same location, but you might want to move that Moog out of direct sunlight. I believe direct exposure to the sun can result in the keys yellowing. It’s probably not good for the front panel either. From one Gustavo to another, thanks for this vid and the others!

[@thesynthsofgus]

Thanks for your comment brother! I appreciate it.

[@Mercy_Pants]

You’re exactly right. Btw…Oscar played a Bösendorfer.

[@anonymous_friend]

Nice Poly D back there! 😂

[@zap7759]

I think I'd go with something that has more than just generic waves through a generic lpf.

[@Conforce]

Why would one buy 4 layer toilet paper if you can just buy 1 layer toilet paper?

[@thesynthsofgus]

Exactly

[@swid_swid_swid]

It's a different market - I don't think the existence of the Poly D is going to stop anybody who has and is willing to spend the $5,000+ on the real deal from doing so, nor do I think the market for the Poly D would really ever be willing to spend the $5,000+ on a real Model D. I for one am glad we live in a time where we have both options available, and at the end of the day I only want to judge what you DO with these synths.

[@project-95]

This. There are people who spend £1000 on a wedding DJ and people who spend £250. Same for photographers, cars, synths. Completely different markets each with their own priorities, wants and needs. Nobody in the premium synth market cares what Behringer are doing. All the copium is from a vocal minority. If you want the real deal, do us all a favour and just buy it so we don't have to read endless arguments trying to justify your purchase 💅🏻

[@MorbidManoeuvres]

the p5 is a gorgeous sounding synth i had one, i now have the p10 , thats 5 times more gorgeous. as much as id love to have the legend that is the Model D. So far i can not justify spending 6K on it. spending 6K on a synth in general makes me feel like id of gone too far

[@MorbidManoeuvres]

from the other side i have some marvelous analog/vintage rare synths but selling them to finance is also a loss.

[@slammingsamples8855]

Why would u buy a Mustang when u can buy a Camry?

[@thesynthsofgus]

Yea! or more why would you buy a Mustang when you can buy a Ferrari. haha

[@Wolfman311]

Easy answer, Camry is the daily while the Mustang is the race car. I actually own this very combo lol

[@Space_pulse]

If you can’t hear the difference between a $3000 synth and a $400 synth, you have no business spending serious money on serious synths. I am playing a Take 5 until I can afford the Prophet 10, and I’ll probably keep both. Can’t afford to gig the real deal, but would love it in the studio. The VCOs, the overdrive into the filter, the filter itself, it’s just not quite the same as the real deal, and it’s a very different tactile experience. Can the cheap stuff still sound great? Sure! But it sure as heck doesn’t sound the same.

[@TheSynthnut]

...and yet the new production CEM clones can be swapped out into old synths and are indistinguishable. When it comes down to it, it's about the musician and the music 99% of the time, not the instrument. Of course, if your creativity is fired up by classic keys and have the cash...

[@Space_pulse]

@@TheSynthnut i definitely agree with you, that it is more a matter of the player (and the mixing/mastering, effects) than anything. I actually kinda ate my words and ended up buying the Pro800. Wife is pregnant and I really needed a poly synth after selling my G7(because I am dumb, but I was not quite vibing with it for some reason). Pro800 rips. I’d still argue that there’s some of the magic of the real deal missing, but it really does sound great and actually seems pretty feature-packed. I also still kinda dislike Behringer for their business ethics, and feel a lil guilty about buying it, but I really don’t think they’re any more evil than the other big corporations out there pumping out synths or electronics.

[@dannyanalog4423]

I have a prophet 5 and behringer don't Play in the same League but the b model d sounds exactley like a minimoog , in direct comparison the moog sounds a littlte bit nobler, warmer but in a mix you can't hear it, 5000$/6000€ for a monosynth in the year 2022 i think the moog team lost her mind. I only use moog for basslines and my Moog LP has the same powerfull bass. Don't understand me wrong for the people who had the money for the New reissue, i wish them a lot of fun with it. I bought the New reissue off the SP1200( that's crazy too, cause i have a mpc but the sp was always one of my dream gear, the minimoog too but not for 6000€ for 5000€ i can buy a oberheim ob x8 .if i win in a lottery than i buy the New minimoog. Behringer is a good solution for young musicians, they make it possible for young people to use analog gear for a very fair price, i have a moog and i love my LP but sometimes i use my B Model D. My Personal opinion the Prophet 5 worth it, the minimoog don't worth it, that its to much

[@thesynthsofgus]

Agree! thanks for the comment.

[@samprock]

I think you made this vid for you honey, just to confirm her, kid, 2 dogs, and a cat are priority! 😂 And I guarantee many here watching, envy you not to 10K worth of amazing synths, but a honey on your side who wants you to feel as happy as you are! (or I'm mystifying relationships? of course not! 😎) Cheers!

[@briann5001]

Why would you ny a prophet 5 when you can by a Prophet X and put a prophet 5 and pro 800 in it 🧠

[@dannyanalog4423]

But a creative head don't need brandOptik and brandnames for Inspiration. In germany we say" weniger ist mehr".

[@KiR_3d]

The analogy about Ferrari is not the best )) Actually their Countach model is well known for being _not comfortable_ at all )) Many sport cars were made not for the comfort but for speed and maneurability.

[@thecommonstaff8441]

They do not sound exactly the same. The p5 sounds better. However i sold my p10 for p800 becauae its financially logical

[@Sound.b581]

They sound different because the Prophet 5 is a Prophet 5 and the Pro 800 is a Prophet 600 Clone that was a budget Prophet for those that could'nt afford a Prophet 5. The difference between Them in terms of sound is in the Envelopes and the Filter and you can get the same sound if you just play pure waveforms but as soon as you add some Amp or filter envelope and some resonance the sound gets totaly different. Prophet 5 has a punchier and more precise Envelope but the Resonance looses Volume and lowend when added and the Prophet 600/Pro 800 have a more lazy envelope + The Resonance beef up the sound with no Volume loss. I think both are great in their own way and there is no right or wrong in what you choose and i choose the Pro 800 in the end since i have always liked the Prophet 600 over the Prophet 5 sound because of it's Ballsy Resonance.

[@kierenmoore3236]

I’d never sell P10

[@klstay]

Buy whatever you want for which attributes are important to you. If it is very important to you the company head of marketing has blonde hair and that is a primary reason you buy a synth why should anyone else care? I will state were I buying a P5 it would be a P10 instead without question even if I had to sell a kidney to do it. (In truth I would certainly get the desktop and a poly AT synth like Iridium or Hydrasynth to go with it) I am a hobbyist who noodles around occasionally and plays poorly. I decided I personally cannot justify spending this much on a synth. At the same time to me the P5 is the perfect polysynth workflow and the mini the perfect mono. (Minimidi V30 really since with so few workflow changes they still significantly expanded the capabilities) So, with a Pro 800 you do get most of that workflow and a fair bit of the sound at an amazing price. Still, let's be honest here if someone put down the desktop model and a Pro 800 and told you to pick either for free you would have to be insane to pick the latter. In other words it is almost completely the price that is the deciding factor. If the price difference is NOT an internally or externally imposed constraint for someone then why not invest in the king of classic anolog polysynths?

[@thesynthsofgus]

Yes yes yes!!!

[@raymondo6665]

No actual comparison? Strange video......

[@EnervatedSociety]

To me it's simple. If you have the money go for the quality hardware because, why the heck not? To some people $3500 is something they can spend pretty often, to others that's hard to come by. We're lucky we have choices. The quality instruments also hold more of their value in the long run which may or may not matter to any given individual. In the end it's whatever works for you. What's going to be interesting is when the Pro-16 comes out. Likely it will be around $1500 with 16 voices, multiple sound modes, their new keybed with polyphonic aftertouch and it'll likely be all around better quality. Given how good the Pro-800 sounds it's obviously going to sound great as well. Looking forward to see it in action.

[@33ordie]

two very different synth and configurations.... Behringer is not the peak of quality and musicality.... Don't tell me what I should buy. ideas are nice but they are just ideas.

[@ernestomartinez5296]

Cause I have fat fingers. Can’t deal with it

[@jmoffitt36]

Got my Pro 800 about 2 months ago and it’s solid no complaints. The Rev4 is a pro Instrument with the original signal paths and different rev filters. The vintage knob is pure genius. Yeah it’s worth the 3k.

[@davemaverick8438]

"Rev4 is pro , The vintage knob is pure genius. Yeah it’s worth the 3k ", there ya go folks you just need vintage knob to sound good cause 3k means good LOL gotta love the consumers and their mythomania

[@jmoffitt36]

@@davemaverick8438 Well it’s sounds better Much better components and will appreciate in value. Yeah the vintage knob is genius. It literally causes the components to drift and be less stable. The components in the filter and envelope alone probably cost more than the 800. Like I say I love the 800 but it’s not a Prophet 5.

[@jasonfreese5409]

I have a Prophet 10 (same as the P5 with more voices) and I own a Behringer Pro-800. While they can both produce the same sounds....sonically they sound NOTHING alike! The Prophet 10 is way more organic, rounder and fuller. Much softer as well. The Pro-800 cuts and is a much thinner sounding. Apples and oranges. Honestly. I A/B'd them the day I got the Pro-800 and it was a bummer because I thought maybe I could sell my P10 if they truly were that close ....seeing that one is $300 and one is $4,300. When you hear them back to back... it is very apparent why there is a massive price difference.

[@dankeplace]

Why don't you tell the truth, where you replied to me "Is kinda like saying: why buy a Ferrari when you have a kya that drives you the same places" [sic] I replied that a 78 Ferrari can do 5.7 second 100KPH, a Kia*EV6 GT does it in 3.5 seconds. So it seems you're being a snob rather than someone here justifying your case of ownership. You should let people know how you tried to justify why a Kia equivalent wouldn't be good for some yet were shown exactly the opposite. Just because something is less expensive and more modern, does not mean it cannot do the same things and be just as a creative inspiration as any other instrument. A good tradesman never blames his tools, same can be said with a musician.

[@Donetur]

I would never understand those who care so much the instruments other use. If they want to buy an expensive gear, it is ok, but I think an artist may not care about that and that’s a totally fine as well. I don’t agree with trying to influence on what the rest want to buy, except if it is a recommendation. Regarding the video: personally I think the sound these tools can issue is more relevant than the brand or the aspect of the instrument. I don’t see that magic he describes in that video, and I don’t think a first class ticket or a car is a good comparison with a tool to create art. Anyway, I think he tried to be respectful and he tries to avoid conflict as much as possible, but the intention is clear: refuting the idea of not buying a prophet by issuing a personal opinion as if what he describes was only a thing which applies to expensive instruments. But a person who buys cheap instruments can also like his/her setup in the very same way he describes.

[@dankeplace]

@@Donetur Go and read the original exchange, this seemed to be bias through ownership and putting down the cheaper equivalent by using the car comparison. I simply pointed out that in this case it just never worked as there was no context. Given a 78 Ferrari cost what it did and that a Kia could out perform it for a fraction of the cost, well that's what you call a false equivalence. Who cares what you use to make music, as long as you enjoy, but don't try to disparage others because of how they make their music by snobbing their instruments of choice. Fwiw my rebuttal never got a response and this is why this video now exists.

[@kujumz806]

yawn

[@heinrichpeffenkoffer4894]

I will never understand why certain people buy any cheap junk if they could buy a Lambo. Is it a matter of education? Or are they just stupid?

[@Donetur]

Only that Behringer gear is not junk. Maybe they are artists just looking for good sound and not a car to presume to their friends.

[@heinrichpeffenkoffer4894]

@@Donetur Come on, there are no excuses for bad taste.

[@heinrichpeffenkoffer4894]

Sorry, I was just playing the asshole. I have a pro 800 and like the sound but the hardware quality of the original might be better, I don't know.

[@dankeplace]

@@heinrichpeffenkoffer4894 the car comparison simply does not work. What does taste have to do with how you make music? Someone has already uploaded a P5 and P800 side by side, and for the patches, they were almost identical. That's what most people care about, the others, well they want to look at their synth and see it's attractive or something? I don't buy synths for looks, I buy them for their sonic qualities and UI capabilities.

[@project-95]

​@@dankeplacethat isn't what most people care about though, they also care about build quality, how long it will last, emotional connection, prestige, nostalgia. That's before we even mention handing over hard earned cash to companies with shady reputations.

[@johnsmith-nd9yo]

Behringer products are better....more features, lower prices. Moog is finished. Behringer has only just started in the synth world and they OWN it already. Similar story in the guitar world.....a $80 Harley Benton is just as good as a $1200 Fender Performer USA Strat. Maybe better.

[@thesynthsofgus]

I have never heard of harley benton guitars and as far as I know Fender is selling more guitars than ever. I think your statement is biased and sensationalist but I welcome it Have a good day!

[@johnsmith-nd9yo]

@@thesynthsofgus I'm just stating facts, and facts alone. I have no interest in any brand over another brand. However, Moog is now sold to a Chinese company and moving out of USA to reduce production cost. The Moog brand we all knew is..... "finished". The Behringer Poly D is 1/10th of the Moog price but offers more features and sounds the same. Its a fact - Poly D is an amazing product at $500.00 compared to $5500 Moog. Has Behringer killed off the company Moog? Well I would say its played a major part in the collapse. The CRAVE / EDGE /POLY D / all seem to be much better value than the Moog products, a fact that cannot be denied. Last August Fender California made 300 x staff members redundant. Gibson guitars are on the brink of collapse. Consumers have become wiser. Only "brand snobs" are keeping Fender and Gibson alive now. I cannot see how a company can produce a guitar in California and compete with factories in Indonesia producing Harley Benton's. Hopefully with the Chinese purchase of the Moog company - we may see more interesting synth products - at much lower prices. Behringer and Harley Benton have given musicians wonderful products at very, very low prices. This is a good thing, but will A.i now destroy the music industry as we know it ? I think the answer is ....yes, the end of the musician and graphic artist is very close.

[@project-95]

Professionals don't use Behringer - another fact

[@johnsmith-nd9yo]

@@project-95 Vangelis ? Jean-Michel Jarre ? Leftfield? deadmau5. I could go on.... but I think you get my point.

[@project-95]

@@johnsmith-nd9yo Sure but their products aren't targeted towards the pro market, they're consumer products with the price tag to match. They didn't kill off Pioneer with their budget DJM-600 clone. They sure as hell aren't going to touch the premium synth market. Buy cheap buy twice.

[@Mclennnan]

The burning question is... WHYYYYYY!

[@gz625]

I feel the same. But for me it's all about design. Main problem of behringer is ugly design. PRO-800 is one of the most ugly things I have ever seen 😂 And opposite - Crave and Edge have a nice modern design and I like them a lot but they also clones of Moog mother 32 and dfam

[@thesynthsofgus]

I also appreciate design! thanks for your comment.

[@voodoohex72]

You realize the design is from the prophet 600 which is models right? Its not Behringer's design really.