Why Can’t Pete and Martin Agree on the Best Albums of the ‘70s? (w/Martin Popoff)

Join Pete Pardo & Martin Popoff for a discussion of why these each gravitate towards different albums and years in the 1970's.
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[@chrismoyse3529]

History with a band is essential. Music is so much about nostalgia and the time that music happened in your life. Great convo gents.

[@squeakjones]

This was one of the best things to ever come out on the channel. A sharp, intelligent conversation about WHY we like the things we like, and a keen analysis of how nostalgia, production, and songwriting are all factors that play into a view that really is unique to everyone. Just one more reason why this is such a great channel. Another thing as Martin goes on is “what do I want out of my music?” So much of what we like is dictated by what we’re looking for. Again: just more proof that SoT really focuses on intelligent music conversation, whether you agree with the view or not.

[@sotdude7]

Thanks Chris!

[@BlackMoore82]

I was born in '82 but a lot of my favorite albums were released during the 70's... In Rock by Deep Purple (1970), Black Gold by Nina Simone (1970), Blue Öyster Cult by Blue Öyster Cult (1972), Captain Beyond by Captain Beyond (1972), Deuce by Rory Gallagher (1972), New York Dolls by New York Dolls (1973), Tattoo by Rory Gallagher (1973), Come Taste the Band by Deep Purple (1975), Fighting by Thin Lizzy (1975), Black Market by Weather Report (1976), The Pinch by Albert King (1977), Young Loud and Snotty by Dead Boys (1977), Heavy Weather by Weather Report (1977), Back On the Streets by Gary Moore (1978), Long Live Rock 'n' Roll by Rainbow (1978), Machine Gun Etiquette by The Damned (1979), Black Rose by Thin Lizzy (1979), and Lovehunter by Whitesnake (1979).

[@aamerhadikhan6255]

The best decade ever in music. I was 12 years old in 1970. EMI actually released Deep Purple in Rock here in Pakistan. Life was never the same again and I'm still on that train at 63

[@vincentwojdacki7346]

Nice, to here from another corner of the earth. Greetings from Hamburg, Germany!!

[@aamerhadikhan6255]

Thanks Vincent I've been to Hamburg. Lovely city

[@vincentwojdacki7346]

Thank you! Yes, people say the most beautiful City in Germany...

[@jamesreding6336]

Me too I'm 64

[@wallac11]

The darker sounds of the early seventies sounded so much richer than the sound of the 80 era that I grew up in.

[@craigkowald3055]

I really appreciate both Pete and Martin. My tastes mostly align with Pete, but I get challenged to listen to more obscure bands and recordings due to Martin's reviews. Keep up the great work!

[@horstbaur7797]

Thoroughly enjoyed this post, Pete. Two people whose taste and knowledge in music I really admire having refreshingly different views. This is what makes things grow. Thanx guys.

[@itsmedrooms6071]

Deep Purple, Perfect Strangers. I remember when this came out and I had no idea who Deep Purple were, but Ioved the album. It made me look at their catalog and all the old stuff was new to me. A lot of other people did the same, so this album introduced a whole new generation to Deep Purple and I think it must have done wonders for their album sales of records that hadn’t sold in numbers like that since the 70s. I have a certain fondness for this album to this day, but Pete who grew up with the classic stuff doesn’t agree which is understandable, but it was a gateway album for me and it’s a really good record in its own right; one of their better ones with the classic lineup imo.

[@pjones8404]

Good morning. Martin, Pete Jones here. I found the conversation very interesting and a wonderful look into how we form our opinions about bands and their albums. Hello Pete. For the most part, we have the same views about a lot of bands. Your "best of" lists are very similar to ones I would put together. I am just slightly older than Martin (and yourself) and I heavily gravitate to the early eras. I did experience most of them in real time and have the longest history with them. So, I will for the most part always go to the early 70's first. I was very pleased to hear over and over how much production is playing a role in forming one's opinion about certain albums or opinions. It was one of the reasons I offered that topic to the Contrarians episode about production and how strong a role it can play in deciding how we like or dislike an album. Your examples of the first three Rainbow albums taking a step back because of production are affirmation of that. I also agree that your history with a band is a powerful influencer to which albums rise to the top of our list of favorite recordings. I don't agree with many of Martin's selections for favorites but that is not just ok, it is essential. Hearing anyone express a different opinion about art is educational and prompts questions and discussions. We clearly are in different camps regarding his comments on drumming. Peart/Portnoy and Bonham/Bonham. However, it must be acknowledged that his points about time frames are THE most important factor when looking at two moments in time. If Lebron James played before Michael Jordan, many people might have completely different views as to who may or may not be the "GOAT" in basketball. I am from Chicago and watched (on youtube) every playoff game Jordan ever played and have also seen every game Lebron James played. I don't engage with who is "better" or not, but there are endless shows about who is better. Those who saw Jordan first can't imagine that his legacy could possibly be challenged by James. Music can be the same way. Martin should never fret about what he loves and why he loves it. No one should. Everyone's opinion is so valid and should be respected. The only time to question is if someone crosses a line and starts to attack other's choices. There is no place for that and one of the reasons I love watching "Sea of Tranquility" and the shows I have done with the "Contrarians". There are people's opinions, but it is always tempered with respect and civility. This exchange is a perfect example of that. Well done gentlemen!

[@chrismoyse3529]

Bloody marvellous show as usual. Easy the best channel on KZbin. Thank you Pete and Martin

[@mrsary7868]

I think what you like can depend on wanting to go your own way from your parents too. As a child I was bombarded with punk and grunge by my dad and told it was the only music worth listening to. Before I knew anything about music my dad explained many times that music started in the late 70s and before that everything was terrible. So when I explored for myself the music from before that time and discovered psych/folk/Americana it was totally new and I loved it. I know that is opposite to how people would have experienced it at the time it came out but that was just my personal experience.

[@jodiebrown392]

Its almost scary to me sometimes listening to how & when Pete got into certain bands. It really echos the same for me which is probably why I dig this channel so much, very relatable.

[@mikep9377]

Same for me

[@markkaminski4496]

Tip top topic again Pete, you and Martin work so well together.

[@DBTdad]

I'm 60 and I really seriously started listening to Genesis last year. Steve Hackett period was truly exceptional. Totally amazing.

[@johnforan2973]

Martin and Pete is the best Rock and Roll show of this generation. Hands down.

[@philipibaugh2925]

I wasn't born till 79 and almost everything I listen to was released while I was still very little or before I was born. I was big on punk as a kid some of the California stuff I got new but most of the metal except Anthrax and Metallica were discovered way afterwards. I really gotta thank you guys for giving me new music ideas especially the 70s stuff. Also at my age I listen to what I like dont give a shit what is concerned cool

[@jimmycampbell78]

I am same age as you. First metal bands I heard and got into were also Anthrax, Metallica; also Megadeth and from the UK Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Judas Priest. I think very similarly to you too.

[@reducecotwo]

Growing up in the '70's and '80's there were a few bands that didn't get nearly the amount of attention that they do now thanks to the illustrious SoT crew.

[@motleyfan7558]

This was a great discussion. One of the best shows you guys ever did.

[@jmacallar]

Great discussion lads….Discovering a band in real time was great but also discovering a band later is awesome as well! You can indulge in their back catalogue….really enjoyed this!

[@tylerpatterson4787]

Yea the 70’s is best decade for rock bands formed, put best albums weather it was studio or live, all before technology came in the 80s it was all raw which I like a lot. Their so many classic albums in the 70s I can’t list it now.

[@grooveyerbouti]

I think there's definitely something in the idea of gravitating toward the albums that got you into a band. First albums I got were Queen Live Magic ,Status Quo in the army now and Dorty work by Stones all three I still have great affection for . 1989 was another big year for me as all three had new albums ,at 15 that's exciting also Alice Cooper Trash and Bowie I discovered, when you had to buy books for discography, have broadened taste in subsequent years but still love all those bands even love Quo ain't complaining and as any Quo fan will tell you "that ain't right!". Legacy bands for the most part don't push newer material as much which I thinks drives the perception of older songs being better, The Stones are perfect example I would love a set of 80's onward material but that's not going to happen as they don't have the history with casual listener. 1974 great year A) I was born B) Quo Queen 2 & S.H.A It's only rock n roll Nightlife Did I mention I was born.

[@renetrachet]

Great discussion. I was born in 1950 and witnessed the start of it all. That makes a big difference in how you look at it

[@johnstucky2168]

Fascinating discussion- one of your best episodes guys!

[@dantewhiterose1958]

Great show! Loved it. The final word for me is what your ears prefer. Is different for a lot of people.

[@johnmohl7345]

great show guys. love to hear people talk music. i was born in 1953 so i have listened to a lot of music from four plus decades. for what it's worth before sticky fingers, who's next, allman bros. live at the fillmore east,etc. etc. all which came out in 1971. l thought the decade started out with a great album. spirit's 'twelve dreams of dr. sardonicus.' released in 1970.

[@carstenselberg1255]

Born in 1955 and growing up with a mother who was an opera singer I have been into music all my life. In 1965 I saw The Beatles live in Copenhagen together with my 16 year old cousin and her friend, that screaming got me to dislike Beatles for many years, so I was 37 when I bought "The White Album", but since then I got a couple more. In 1966 I got my first album "Pet Sounds" from my uncle in Arizona and all though my taste in music have changed over the years I still like listen to The Beach Boys seen them live a lot of times. When I got older I got into The Who, Deep Purple, Yes, Rick Wakeman solo projects, Uriah Heep, Queen, Genesis, Camel, Saga, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Kansas, later came bands like Marillion, Styx, Bon Jovi, Blue Öyster Cult, Rush and Bruce Springsteen. During my travels in the US I got into some country bands/artist like Garth Brooks, Trisha Yearwood, Blackhawk, Confederate Railroad, Zac Brown Band and Sugarland. The first album i bought was Procol Harum "A Whiter Shade of Pale". Today I still like to experience new music, so I*m digging into Dream Theater, Neal Morse Band, Flower Kings, Ayreon, Transatlantic, Blackberry Smoke and many more: I still like classic music and opera. I listen to this genre a lot. I like to thank SOT for bring new music experiences to me, like Cats in Space, Ashbury, Starcastle etc.

[@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084]

Your premise is correct; how and when you discover a band or music will effect how you chose your favorite bands. I've moved on from much of the music of my youth. But those bands will always be very special to me. And those re ords sit proudly on my shelves for those moments when I need to remember. Great show, guys. Thanks.

[@colinrgage]

Great topic it's not always about just the music the memories music gives you is always a big thing for me Looking forward to UK connection tomorrow

[@daanthing6002]

I've listened to music much of my life but there is this Golden Period from my 17-21 years ('92-'96). I got my first cd player, new music loving friends, en really dove into current metal to early seventies rock/metal. The buying and exploring started there. Those albums will always have something special that you just can't capture anymore.

[@steveclark8538]

Great show as always guys. All art is extremely subjective - just walk thru a gallery w a group of friends - because we bring our own unique life experiences and personalities into the art we observe, like, dislike, listen to, make, etc

[@BattManion1979]

Wow you're just like a real philosopher

[@Wayner71]

I'm of a similar age to both gentlemen. But my musical tastes share similarities and differences to both. I too love the Late 60's - Early 70's output of most artists. This was an almost unbelievably rich period and probably my favorite of all the era's. The zeitgeist of that counter-cultural period was strong and corresponds to my late childhood. I share Pete's love of the musical output of this epoch. And I find myself agreeing with him in most of his opinions of music from this period. But I also managed to transcend this era in the Late 70's. I did not get into Punk (I found it too primitive) but did manage to get into Post-Punk (with a vengeance). Post-Punk has strong Progressive elements that attracted me initially. This is where I find my commonality with Martin and agree with him in regard to New Wave artists of that period. I put the great Post-Punk bands and artists on a similar level to the pre-New Wave bands and artists. For me there is no real qualitative demarcation. I love Early 70's Bowie as much as Late 70's Bowie. Most of the older bands and artists fell away in quality and relevance after 1975 though. So many did not sustain their greatness in that period. This was one reason why I sought out the freshness of Post-Punk. I sometimes get frustrated when Pete rejects Post-Punk music as I know he would dig it if he spent more time with it. He just needs an entry point. And I get equally frustrated when Martin rejects early 70's rock for the same reasons. He also needs a relevant entry point into that paradigm. Maybe it's hard to embrace all of these musical forms and I'm an outlier in that regard. Nevertheless, I find myself in accord with both gentlemen at various times and really enjoy their wealth of musical knowledge.

[@geographyinaction7814]

I was born in 68 to parents who had just emigrated to Canada from Liverpool. I've listened to it all from The Beatles to Radiohead, and I have a love of metal, jazz, blues, punk, prog, the 80's, 70's, 60's. Music is tremendous, and whether it's putting The Police Zenyatta Mondatta on the turntable, or listening to Rush on Tidal, we're very lucky!

[@mmixon7491]

Yes, I think the best albums for each individual depend on our age, and when we were exposed to a certain band during the decade, and the impact the album made in connection with everything else that was going on in our lives. For me, I can walk through the decade with some big impact albums like: Deep Purple - Machine Head, Styx Equinox, Heart - Dreamboat Annie, Boston (debut), Kansas - Leftoverture, Eagles - Hotel California, Journey - Infinity, and Toto - (debut).

[@63mckenzie]

The 70s were the pinnacle of a lot of music. Rock, Prog, Jazz Fusion, AOR, Punk, New Wave. Frank Zappa at his zenith. Incredible decade.

[@wolf1977]

No doubt about that✔

[@jeffrice4713]

Disco, Philly Soul, Reggae, Soft Rock, Southern Rock

[@blombidobadila8084]

Jazz, Classical, Ambient/Electronic....peaked in the 70's. Frank Zappa? was this humour?

[@guillaumechabason3165]

Film soundtracks Modern classical music

[@blombidobadila8084]

@@guillaumechabason3165 Yes, certainly the latter.

[@domielakrabi3276]

This is a great episode! I enjoyed it a lot. The music we like has always a lot to do with how we got into a record or a band. The personal memories of these moments can't be overestimated. That's why I still somehow like "Slippery When Wet" and "Kind of Magic" (lot of people consider a low point in Queens' career).

[@michaelbaucom4019]

Pete discussing album covers influence: My favorite two artists are only that because I bought the albums for the covers, the music captivated me and sent me into loving prog rock: Kansas: Song For America Supertramp: Crime Of The Century

[@fourseasons4105]

For me it's totally a case by case discussion. Some artists (like Bowie, ELO, Steely Dan, Return to forever, Kansas or Rush) I definitely favor their late 70's/early 80's phase whereas others (like Genesis, Uriah Heep,Deep purple,The Who, Renaissance) I tend to prefer their earlier 70's stuff usually. So yeah, completely depends on the specific artist/band.

[@natemendsen1629]

Yeah, for the hard stuff like Heep and Purple I like there to still be the blues and faux jazzy slight progressive bent mixed in with the new heavy rock they were inventing .Its like Heavy and Metal are two different things and it became more about just metal as time went on for some of those bands.

[@RodrigoAlves-bc8qq]

Even if i were 13 years old and started to listen to Kiss today, I don't think Monster and SB would have a chance over the 70's classics. Eventually, I'd listen to all (or most) of their albums and would get the history of the band (it is my nature to learn about bands I like). Then, in a few years (or months), i'd realize how good Ace was and that Tommy rips him off and that the music they did in the 70's has a staying power (for various reasons) that their music from the 80's onwards doesn't. I'm from 1973 and only 7 years ago I started to listen to UFO (know about them since the 80's, but it passed me by). So, even though I didn't listen to UFO in the 70's or when I was 13, I still think 70's UFO is the best. I know Scorpions since 1984, when i was 11. I was never a big fan, yet I've had AM, Blackout, LAFS. By 1988, I couldn't stand them anymore. By 1995, when I was 22, someone showed me the Uli's era Scorpions. I'm 48 now, I still don't care for 80's Scorpions but I still love Uli's era. What we think as better albums have more to do with music that has staying power - whatever that means. It's not exactly about "when you got the band" or "that stuff you listened to when you were 13 will always stick with you". I listened to a lot of The Mission and New Model Army when I was 13, but I don't do it anymore since I'm 20.

[@brunoooots]

I'd rather consider a decade from the '5' year e.g. 1965-1975, 1975-1985, 1985-1995 etc. Soundwise & stylistically there's more consistency I think. Great show & topic by the way, I like the deep dive :)

[@Darrylizer1]

I listen very infrequently to the bands that got me into music as a kid including Yes, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath. Sometimes I play an old album that I've heard a million times but most times I'll play something new to me whether an old band or a newer one like The Ocees or All Them Witches.

[@chrismoyse3529]

My favourite BOC Lp is the T shirt Pete is wearing. First one I bought after seeing them in 78

[@elfman5176]

Great Live Album

[@jonascepas8379]

Helio, You are different persons. And it is interesting to listen both of you. Bye

[@finslaw]

1970 has most of my favorites: In Rock, 12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus, Parachute, Shazam, Plastic Ono Band, All Things Must Pass and Tea for the Tillerman. I also really like Cosmo's Factory, After the Gold Rush and Live at Leeds.

[@NelsonMontana1234]

We tend to like what hits us first. As an old timer I experienced the first Tull, first Zeppelin, first Sabbath, first Grand Funk, first King Crimson, all when they first came out -- which are all amazingly good. Then again, I first heard YES with The Yes Album" which is still my fave. I didn't hear Metallica until Master of Reality which I feel is their best. . And I didn't hear Maiden until "Powerslave" -- which is still my favorite. And I had enough of all of those bands after about five albums in. So it's hard to gauge.

[@marilyncatterall402]

Master Of Reality was a Sabbath album, not a Metallica one. Did you mean Puppets?

[@NelsonMontana1234]

@@marilyncatterall402 Oops, yes. Thanks.

[@elfman5176]

Pete love the Blue Oyster Cult T shirt I do love the black and white period of the band but the later stuff is awesome as well so I agree with both of you

[@kevinmcgauhey9813]

I think it's a matter of "what qualities do you like the most in music?" I was raised with Classical music playing in the house. Tchaikovski, Beethoven, Sibelius. It took me a few years to even start to narrow it down, but I respond to Power, Beauty and Intensity. And those are qualities I value in Classical music as well as Rock music. Sophistication is a variable. I can listen to Garage rock with a dash of Punk for hours, but I will absolutely NEED to have a thick slice of Progressive Rock, Jazz Fusion or Classical to balance it all out, and there's your sophistication factor. It's not so much what you are first exposed to.... for example my brother was brought up in the same house, but the Classical music apparently made no real impression. He brought home a lot of rock classics, but eventually the Marshall Tucker (and Poco) stuff had more of an impact on him, and he wound up liking Americana. So what you are exposed to CAN be an influence, but it's what qualities in music you like that will have the staying power as far as what you like and don't like. That is what you will seek more of, and enjoy the most.

[@craigkowald3055]

Like you, I was raised with classical, but other genres too. It is not surprising that I still love Tchaikovsky, Dvořák, Black Sabbath, and Chicago. Formative years can have a lasting impact.

[@guillaumechabason3165]

I love Kiss and Xenakis

[@glennsmusicchannel]

One of my favorite ELO albums is "Time", which I bought on release day. Come to find out it's not that highly regarded in their catalog. 1981 is after their biggest albums came out. This sounds like that same phenom - you enjoy stuff based on what you bought, and at what age (I'm Pete's age). I like a lot of those later Motorhead records enough that I tend to reach for those before the earlier ones.

[@knightvisioniixv]

Excellent topic, guys. Myriad of possible reasons as to why the two of you have differences in preference (even in regards to a particular artist/band), but those differences are what make 'Friday at the Fun House' an interesting watch.

[@takodabostwick8507]

Quadrophenia is my number one rock/metal album of the 70s!

[@Baz63]

Martin....glam rock here in the U.K was massive, FUN, tribal, exciting and was all pervasive. Bands like Slade, The Sweet, T.Rex, Mud, Alvin Stardust, Wizzard, Gary Glitter (yes he was vital) to the artier end like Roxy Music, Bowie, Cockney Rebel etc made Top Of The Pops vital watching on a Thursday night. Glam Rock was a vital part of our early 70s heritage and, to be honest, nothing has come close in terms of fandom. If you liked The Sweet then you would defend them against fans of say Slade. Bolan and Bowie the same. Great times and pop music at its very best for entertainment. I know the USA has their versions like New York Dolls and Alice Cooper morphing into Kiss, Motley Crue etc but these bands owe their musical heritage to their U.K. counterparts.

[@whitey7998]

Great show, really enjoyed this discussion.

[@purpletemple1]

Great show! I definitely have a soft spot for some of the first albums I heard/ owned by a band. Some of my fav records are: Conquest (Heep), Special Forces (Alice Cooper), Night in the Ruts (Aero), Unmasked/ The Elder (Kiss), Crest of a Knave (Jethro Tull), Hot Space (Queen)...just because I discovered those bands when those albums came out and they really stuck with me. Now, none of those are my FAV by those bands but they're really held up high, where many people consider them complete crap. Cheers.

[@pvdguitars2951]

So I’m of 62, meaning that by 1976 I was all into the classic hard rock of Sabbath Purple ZEP Heep UFO Aerosmith Starz Moxy Angel Kiss BOC Scorpions. Punk did to Hard rock in the late seventies what grunge did to Metal in the nineties. So what a relief when NWOBHM revived the genre in 1980!!!

[@Stormheart911]

This has been a really interesting conversation. In my own experience, it's been the albums that captured my imagination, and touched my soul the most, that are my favorites. Some of them are dark & gloomy. Some of them are bright and poppy. Some are early in the artist's catalog, and some are much later. For me it's more about the albums lyrical & musical content, and the impact it had on my life that matters most.

[@davidmorris5215]

Well done both...For me one of the best SoT episodes ever...As you say, there's no right or wrong but it's really interesting to hear the way your thinking. This could have gone on for hours!!.... Great show

[@MartinPopoff]

I found an alarm bell going off when I was repeating myself. You can't go around in circles. Once your notes say you are done - better stop!

[@delby66]

I was born in 1956 and I'm 66 now. I loved music since I was about 5 mainly because of my 2 aunts who were in their teens at the time. So, it was the Beatles, the Stones, a lot of British Invasion bands that were played often in our household. As the 70's came I fell in love with rock music, especially prog rock. There were a few harder rock bands I liked, such as, Deep Purple, the Who, Led Zepplin, Queen etc. etc. However my genre was prog. Here are my top best albums of the 70's in no particular order. Dark Side of the Moon, Foxtrot, Trilogy, Close to the Edge and Queen1.

[@b2tall239]

For me, 1976 was the greatest year in music and the '70s was the greatest decade (I was born in '64). I tried to put together a top-10 album list from the '70s but I couldn't. My top-10 would have 50-60 albums on it.

[@wolf1977]

Same here, that's the reason that when there are Desert Island episodes (which single album or 10 albums would you bring with you?) I opt out. Actually I'd cheat like Capt Kirk's kobayashi maru to change the game's rules from a no-win scenario. I'd bring CDR's containing my fave songs (up to 99 tracks per)

[@mjwbulich]

"Everyone knows rock achieved perfection in 1974,its a scientific fact"- Homer Simpson

[@esteeb67]

I fall more in line with Pete's way of thinking. I tend to like those records that are highly regarded. At the same time, like Martin, I enjoy punk and new wave. So for example, my favorite Bowie's are Aladdin Insane and Ziggy Stardust, but I do have a soft spot for those Berlin records. People often say it is what you listened to first and in some cases that is true (Maiden, Priest), but for others like AC/DC and The Stones that is not true. Interesting episode. Some opinions just floor me, but it is worth knowing where each person is coming from to see why they may think what they think.

[@russellgentile4719]

Pete, I absolutely love the BOC shirt. Wow!

[@vladdrakul7851]

Like many here I also found this discussion to be one of the most interesting philosophical discussions ever of music and it's subjectivity to the listener and what they bring to the mix on the internet, let alone for the 'Sea of Tranquility'. As someone who is a little older than Martin who is a little older than Pete I found the context of age in this as very interesting. I also grew up in the UK and first came to the US in 1974 so that also makes my experience one that can relate to both of them yet also neither. On the one hand, like Martin, I LOVE the late 70's and early 80's but NOT because of the earlier 60/70's bands evolving into MOR but because of some of the punk and the New Wave because I HAD LOVED the 60's which I experienced as a child as the best era while to me it was the post 1971 music that was 'depressing', as burn out replaced creativity and commercial cynicism replaced idealism and passion. For me the late 60's was a peak of excitement and new ideas and I loved the Doors, Zeppelin and Sabbath but the Glam rock thing like Kiss and MOR lost any sense of rebellion. It was all 'show' and careers over musical vision. I loved the late 70's because there was a fresh sense of adventure again and a return to passion. My opinion is both a mix of Martin AND Pete's view while also in complete disagreement. The Hippies were the Golden Era and every year a new style just as in th later New Wave (hence the name btw) and I do not agree that today's kids hate the 60's stuff but love the 70's, indeed the opposite seems to be true of my 20 year old son and friends who love the stuff I play them. Not everything did get better, some artists grow, others rot and burn out. kd Lang's later stuff is my favorite, while others are at their best when young, sincere and passionate. Just clinging onto a money maker rarely produces the best art. I love music from Cab Calloway up through Royksöpp and Roison. Music evolves but that does NOT doom older music to irrelevance, only mediocricy does that as time goes by. Simon and Garfunkle, the Beatles and others wrote fantastic songs that still move us, just as Bach and Mozart do. Having a more advanced technique helps little when one runs out of ideas, passion or enthusiasm. Martins comments about Jason being way better than John Bonham is laughable just like those who say 'any kid in a bar can play 'better' than Jimi Hendrix'. Music is SOUND and vision and FEELING not just empty note flourishing. Others can sometimes play LIKE Hendrix but no one ever SOUNDS like him. It is true that the earlier more explorative music was less consistent live. Like a Grateful Dead Show they could be awful one night and the best thing ever the next. Modern music's curse is it's consistency like McDonalds burgers. Dependable but hardly great food. I do understand WHY Martin got tired of the blues in the 70's. I did too as it WAS overdone and too many did it POORLY. It became cliche and tired. I really did NOT like most of the classic earnest English blues players (Clapton, Beck, 10 Years After). Page, Garcia and Hendrix however are my Holy Trunity as they built INSPIRED UNIQUE sound architectures with their playing not just showing off their note athletics. Many thought the '80's sound' was 'more advanced' at the time but some of us understood even back then how awful most of it sounded. Dead, airless and sterile!

[@patrickwalsh3655]

That was cool.

[@OMW66]

Hi. Favorite 70’s (60’s) album for me. Some of them: In Rock Sabbath Bloody Sabbath Led Zeppelin III Jailbreak (Lizzy) Farewell to Kings Overkill (Motörhead) Secret Treaties Let There Be Rock The Yes Album Foxtrot Larks Tongues in Aspic Leftoverture Tres Hombres Morrison Hotel The Wall Stand Up Look at Yourself Who’s Next I was born i 66. I love the albums that shaped me in my youth the most.

[@musclecarfan74]

I was born in 1974, and listening to metal by 86-87, by 1993 I was buying vinyl and really deep into 70's rock. I am like Pete and I listen to about 800-1,000 new albums a year. I love my Apple Music. That is how I learn about music. My introduction to The Rolling Stones was the day I was born.

[@jonfargo7321]

Great discussion. I’m probably more aligned with Martin in enjoying later parts of a band’s catalog, but there is no right or wrong answer here. As a Kiss fan of 45 years I always thought Love Gun was my favorite because it was my first KISS album. Now I rank Lick It Up as most enjoyable listen from the catalog. Pink Floyd, The Wall, and Rush it’s Counterparts. I don’t imagine many Rush fans rank that one as their top album.

[@tookmyjob]

The relationship between "favorite" and "most listened to" is interesting because with a band's catalog that I'm well familiar with, I tend to not overplay the favorite and try to get more out of a different album. Production is a weird one, because there's a lot of late 70's/early 80's releases that don't sound great. Some albums sound too clean and thin, where you want more depth and bite to it.

[@darrensutherland4399]

Cool conversation guys I enjoy both the dark/light, new/old Martin you crack me up with the Boogie Woogie pronunciation never change

[@davidholmes6119]

Terrific episode of the best SoT show. Love Martin and Pete's conversations. Martin is the SoT personality I feel the most musical-taste synergy with because he feels as liable to mention, say, Joy Division or Paul Weller as AC/DC or Uriah Heep. He brings a punk/post-punk type of energy to the SoT collective, as discussed here.

[@petetobey3933]

I was kind of a late-comer to popular rock, my parents really didn't like rock music, so I had to figure it out for myself -- very organic, I listened to the radio, borrowed friends' cassettes and LPs, read guitar magazines. I was introduced to the Beatles in seventh grade, so that's 1981-82, but I didn't get into the modern rock of the day until 1983, '84. So I see Pete's point, where you come into a certain era of an established band, then go back and collect the discography, that's what you gravitate toward because you've established a history with that band or artist, and their later stuff doesn't hold up as well in many cases because of the history you have. That's me with Rush and other bands, like MSG, Iron Maiden and Rainbow, where I landed with them in 1983-84 -- I went back and collected all of Rush's albums to that point, so that 1970s-early '80s heavy prog Rush is what I love the most. I absolutely love Fly By Night, 2112 and the four monster albums that followed. However, I also love the heck out of Grace Under Pressure, because that was the album that came out around the time I was discovering them. I don't like late '80s-early '90s Rush, way too poppy for me, but I do like their last three albums post-2000. Boston, another example -- I heard Boston on the radio in the early '80s and I was blown away, I went out and immediately got their only two albums at the time, still two of my all-time favorites. Then, in 1986, we got Third Stage, and I actually really loved that album, too, and it still sends me back to the summer I was 17.

[@bradb3248]

My best music memories are definitely in the 70s listening to new music as a teenager, have listened to some great new music in recent decades but doesn’t have the same impact as it did in my teens!

[@t702942]

Very interesting discussion!

[@stevenleblanc9628]

Here I agree with Pete, I’m into the early 70s. I hear Martin praising late 70s and 80s stuff over earlier albums and I think, “how can he like those records! They’re terrible!” I’m older then Pete and Martin. By the time I started getting into records, in the early 70s, I was hearing albums as they came out, or were still fresh. That period made a big impression on me. It was new, it was ground breaking. I love the sound of those records. By the time I was in High School, after the mid way point of the 70s, the music scene had changed. I couldn’t stand most of what I heard coming out. I was an angry teenager with most of the music I heard, but not angry enough to turn Punk, which I wanted nothing to do with either. Maybe music was better produced, but I wanted nothing to do with most of it. Disco dominated and much of Rock was getting AOR. In high school I didn’t understand why music was getting, for the most part, so boring. I didn’t know what “AOR” meant, but I heard slick, commercial Rock and didn’t like most of it. When I heard early Metal, to me it was Slick and commercial so most of it didn’t interest me.

[@zackbennett5609]

What do you listen to now, everyday?

[@tonyghicks01]

I like this open ended conversation concept

[@Grisostomo06]

Excellent discussion as always. I was in my teens and twenties during the 70s so I remember this era very well. AM radio dominated in the early part of the decade and the music I heard was mainly 3 minute singles that were popular. I couldn't afford albums and so I purchased 45s . Around 1975 record stores like "Licorice Pizza" appeared and so I would simply go inside and browse for bands that were considered hip and make purchases based on the album artwork and song titles. "Rolling Stone" was still an excellent source for record reviews because their critics initially were still pretty honest and objective and free to write what they pleased. The 1970s were the high point of Rock'n Roll commercially. In fact at one point more money was spent on R&R records and concerts than any other form of entertainment including movies and sports.

[@wolf1977]

I'd say the 70's were not only the high point for rock commercially but also quality-wise (same for prog & fusion), anyway easily my fave musical decade for those 3 genres. I also bought some 45's early on, I remember one of my first was John Lennon's single "Whatever Gets You thru the Night" & Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom"/"I Saw Her Standing There". I'm pretty sure the first album I ever bought was an Elton John record, might've been Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy

[@Grisostomo06]

@@wolf1977 This is a topic that could go on for hours. There are a lot of reasons for the decline in both the quality and quantity of R&R. With the '80s came the birth of MTV and it wasn't enough to be a good writer and musician one had to be a song and dance band and have entertaining videos.

[@wolf1977]

@@Grisostomo06 I liked early MTV at the time, it was something different & they'd actually feature Music (instead of whatever they do now). Looking back on it the effect it had on music may not necessarily have been a good thing, or at least more bad than good (?) - I think it's arguable. Music's always had a pretty tight connection with fashion & looks, seems like MTV exaggerated that to the "nth" degree

[@micolsen9824]

Topic idea for multi decade bands.... The 'LP era vs. the CD era' began mid 90's. In Deep Purple's case, the Morse era was longer track listings while the Blackmore era was always suited to vinyl length. Other multi decade bands ie. Rolling Stones, YES and Rush could be explored on this album length topic. Which bands/artists handled the extra room on the CD format and which struggled?

[@wolf1977]

Interesting thing about vinyl is that technically the album length (# of minutes of stored music) can be increased for vinyl but will affect the sound quality because the music's stored as physical grooves. The more music, the closer together the grooves have to be which then affects the dynamic range of that music as the turntable's stylus cuts across the record (and also the tracking) - it's compressed. Actually something similar happens with the inside tracks (near the center), there are shorter wavelengths involved - or less vinyl per second. This is why quieter songs tend to get pushed to the end (inside) of vinyl albums, at higher volumes these issues are more noticeable...Can't get around physics

[@MartyMurray]

Very interesting guys. I come at my records and my tastes a whole other way than you two do. First of all, I'm 66 years old, and my sister is 75 years old, so as a kid, I heard all her records around the house. She was in high school at the height of Beatlemania, so guess what I mostly heard...them, and all her 45's that she bought. Later on my mom got me into the big band and swing music that was the music of her generation during the war. When my sister went to university, she came home with albums by Gordon Lightfoot, Simon & Garfunkel, Carole King, but also heavier stuff - Deep Purple, Grand Funk, Cream, Santana. I grew up on all of that. By the time I got to high school I had a good background in early classic rock, and like Pete I love all the blues rock and the psyche. In high school guys had to like a few bands in order to be cool. You had to like Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and Alice Cooper, or you weren't cool, and Deep Purple was in there as well. I met guys in my classes who were into prog, like Genesis and Yes and King Crimson, and I got into that as well. I graduated in 1974, and that summer I turned 18, and I could legally drink, and we had three bars here in the Falls who had great rock bands, six nights a week, and the places were packed. If you didn't like who was playing at one bar, there was somebody good at one of the others. And these were good bands, up and coming recording acts in some cases. One bar used to get bands from Detroit, and a lot of them were awesome. But then the whole disco thing happened, and almost overnight these places, two of them, turned into dance clubs, playing this shitty music with all these people dancing in unison. I thought, WTF bullshit is this? And on TV, you had shows like the Midnight Special, which mostly featured that kind of music and all the wimpy pop of the time, and I'm going, what happened to the rock??! During this time southern rock was beginning to catch on, as an alternative, but for the most part I didn't like it. I liked Little Feat and the Allmans, and some songs by some others, but I wasn't big into that sound. My friends loved it. I really didn't. So then the punk thing happened, and guess where I went? Yeah, this is rock and roll, full of attitude and it's loud and it kicks ass. I was into it. When I got to college in the early 80's, which was an art school - Martin will know, Sheridan College - everyone was into alternative rock and this cool new radio station, CFNY-FM. I liked some of what I heard, and got more into that later on, but at the time my college buddies and I were still listening to Priest and Maiden and Coney Hatch and bands like that. We were still rockers. Time goes on and your tastes change, but I still love all that stuff. Now, at my present age, I still listen to rock, but I listen to alternative rock and alt country the most, and CFNY is still my radio station of choice. I find a lot of interesting things talked about on SOT and I check a lot out, and my CD collection has definitely been added to in the past few years.

[@boulderbug]

...again I say : ....Great Show Guys ....!

[@psychedelicpunkster6840]

Very interesting subject guys thanx! I have to go with Petey this time. I gravitate towards the early releases of bands, whether I grew up when albums were released or discovering NOS Rock bands that somehow flew under the radar. My rule of thumb in most cases is that the first 3-4 LPs from any group is their Best material, example Jethro Tull's first four albums I find to be killer but I won't go any further with them cuz they changed the direction of their music. To me Jethro Tull was better off as a electric blues band , just my opinion. Nowadays I'm playing catch up to those bands that got pass me somehow . Petey's open new doors for me with some of the fantastic groups he showcases . Wishbone Ash and UFO are two bands that automatically I fell in love with, starting off with her early material , first 4 then finding out there latter Day catalog are just as good if not better . Being a Punk Rocker the blinders were always on never diving into corporate Rock . But now @ 60 I'm getting into more Hard Rock n Metal cause I missed out on them earlier on .

[@patrickcrowther9195]

‘Deepest Purple’… what a classic compilation that is. I used to stare at the photos on the back cover of the LP for ages.

[@seaoftranquilityprog]

Ditto!!!

[@RodrigoAlves-bc8qq]

@@seaoftranquilityprog That was also my gateway to Purple, but in the late 80's. I was 13 at the time and didn't care much for them, but that comp is so good i had to surrender.

[@LarryFleetwood8675]

Knowing that Martin's not crazy about MK1 and it's probably been touched on before once upon a time, I'm curious how Martin feels about their genre transition/before the storm album Concerto for Group and Orchestra (1969). I do like it but it's an oddity alright.

[@christianman73]

My musical tastes are so wide-ranging that I have common ground, and common favorite albums, with people who like everything from Black Sabbath, to Earth, Wind, and Fire, to Yes, to The Clash, to Frank Sinatra, and so much more. I enjoy so-called '80s "hair metal" bands like Cinderella, and I love very different "'80s bands," like hardcore punkers Discharge. I'm not *trying* to be contrarian though-- honestly! :-)

[@knightvisioniixv]

Same here! You could gather ten different music fans (friends, or even acquaintances), and have conversations about faves; Surely, they will love a few things from your list (above.) The hilarious thing in all of this? It's more than likely that each one of those same ten people will despise something from the same list. I'm sure you've experienced this on more than one occasion; I know I have, lol.

[@elaineandjohn9599]

This would be a terrible show if Peter and Martin had the same or too similar tastes. They both offer excellent analysis from their perspective and respect each other’s opinions and really work well playing off each other. So enjoyable. Thanks to both.

[@Intermentor]

Pete, cool when you talk about your first experience with Black Sabbath. Mine was "Seventh Star" when it was released, so I was unsure for a while if I should like Black Sabbath or not. I was 12 years old in 86. Then I heard "Heaven and hell" a year later and I was totally blown away. And that gave me a reason to check out the 70s stuff.

[@craigleggett1399]

So, what did you think of the 70s stuff, Bertram?

[@Intermentor]

@@craigleggett1399 The 6 first albums are really good. Vol. 4 is maybe my favorite. I also have to say I heard Ozzy solo before 70s Sabbath. So I guess there was two reasons to check out the 70s stuff, not one;)

[@dtltmtgt]

I get what Martin is saying about "depressing" for earlier releases. Being a teenager in the mid-80s, back then I was depressed by a lot of music released before the late-70s. That has changed for me, I can definitely appreciate the "older" sounding music especially as I try to listen for influences and to better understand the "big history" of music. Great conversation guys!!

[@jimmycampbell78]

I would guess it is the production. There is a huge difference in the production values of 70s rock and 80s rock. 70s music was recorded analog and sparse. I actually prefer 70s production as it sounds more ‘live’ and ‘clear’ compared to 80s music which sounds layered to me, sometimes too much. I should add I am younger than you and grew up in the 80s, but I liked it when 90s rock kind of stripped it back down again but kept it polished.

[@johnw706]

An excellent conversation , gentlemen . I was 10 years old when I saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in February of 1964 , so I've been in on these bands from the beginning . Nostalgia and history with a band definitely play a part in which parts of a band's catalog that you favour . That said , I also like many latter day albums by these bands as well . Take the latest Stranglers album , Dark Matters , which you discussed a couple of weeks ago . I like it better every time that I hear it . Overall though , I tend to be more like Pete and favour the earlier albums in most bands' catalogs , probably because I like the blues based and psychedelic material which flourished in the late 60s and early 70s . Cheers !!!!

[@steveclark8538]

Great show guys. Simplicity in any art form can be just as hard to pull off creativity as complexity. I am a painter and sometimes even after mastering some the tools and methods of traditional landscapes etc an artist will return to a simplicity that is almost childlike in some work. I do not find complexity and production my main driver in the music I enjoy so I often prefer a bands earliest work the best. The struggling with instruments and the hunger often comes out as more passionate to me.

[@garyh.238]

Interesting how we form our musical tastes, and how those can be so different from one person to another. From my own perspective; i) what was being played on the radio at the time, ii) what was in friends' and their older brothers' record collections at the time, iii) what I was seeing in the record shop windows, and iv) who were on the covers / main articles of magazines such as Hit Parader, Cream and Circus were all major factors in developing certain musical interests. A seminal moment for me as a young teen was hearing Deep Purple's Highway Star from the Made in Japan album cranked up extremely loud on a parked car's stereo system outside the high school gymnasium tennis courts....that represented my true awakening to hard rock. From there it was Purple onto Rainbow, , Sabbath, Zeppelin, etc etc

[@wolf1977]

I used to read all of those rock mags too! Also every "special edition" I could find where they'd focus in on one band - I still have my "Paul is Dead!" special edition mag around here somewhere (for a dead guy he's sure worked hard for the last 55+ years). A friend of mine in high school had a Dodge Dart with Jensen triax's & a nice tape head unit installed, plus a ton of extra speakers. We'd often sit in his car to listen to Floyd - there was just something about hearing them in a car at night, cranked to 11...

[@garyh.238]

@@wolf1977 Jensen tape decks! That brings back memories! Those were must haves back in the mid-70's. Yes, cruising up and down Main Street all night Fridays and Saturdays listening to tunes....that was the go to past time for many of us back then. And, for the nostalgia moment, how I wish I had kept all those old rock magazines from back then - that was our source of music info pre-internet. On a more modern note, am currently listening to George Lynch's solo instrumental album Seamless......what a guitarist....a shredder with a melodic sense - more edge to him that many other players. Have you listened to much George?

[@wolf1977]

@@garyh.238 I like his Furious George album & Will Play For Food had some good tracks. Wicked Underground with Jeff Pilson is excellent. That's about it for me though, I haven't really liked his singers...Might have to give Seamless another spin, I think I remember getting some Satriani vibes (but heavier)...?

[@garyh.238]

@@wolf1977 I have Wicked Sensation and yes it is very good. I have a more recent album called Sun Red Sun but I don't care for the singer's vocals all that much, and it seems some of the songs kind of run out of gas....a missed potential. However, Seamless is really growing on me...it is all instrumental and I have listened to it about 4 times now in the past week....it gets better with each listen. Yes, definitely a Satriani vibe to it, but heavier would be a very apt description. The only downside is the production...it sounds like all the instruments are pushing to maximum in the mix, so at times it sounds somewhat distorted. Once I get past that aspect, my overall take on the album is quite favourable.

[@awrogers3013]

Nice introspective program. I like these “why” episodes

[@ozzyvaldez1265]

First rush album I heard in the 70s was farewell to kings still love that album today

[@gideonlapidus8996]

My own first 2 vinyl albums were in 1971. Aqualung Jethro Tull and Mona Bone Jakon Cat Stevens Both brilliant albums for me. And my interest just grew from there

[@sixbladeknife44]

Love those two also, Mona Bone is my favorite Cat album. Stand Up, Benefit and Aqualung are a perfect trifecta of albums.

[@gideonlapidus8996]

@@sixbladeknife44 absolutely

[@gideonlapidus8996]

@@sixbladeknife44 i love the name. My favorite Mark Knopfler number

[@sixbladeknife44]

@@gideonlapidus8996 Cool that you noticed my handle :) But yeah, I love that whole album…one of the best debuts in recorded history.

[@gideonlapidus8996]

@@sixbladeknife44 absolutely

[@gideonlapidus8996]

I agree with Pete here. The beginning of the 70s right up to the punk and disco era which i hated. Then came Judas Priest. But Jethro Tull Deep Purple ELP Genesis were always still there for me.

[@angelomicciche3044]

Started listening to Ziggy Stardust in the late 80s and started doing so again in the past week. It is a thing of beauty: not something I would say of most music that I love.

[@boulderbug]

...I Loved cranking that first RUSH at parties it was killing it with those Blistering Leads ...again , Party Worthy Favorites..

[@kamranmalik8546]

The 70s had so many classic albums

[@wolf1977]

Indeed - many of them obscure & now hard-to-find. You're probably talking more about the well-known albums (Dark Side, Zep IV, Machine Head, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road etc) but there are SO MANY great 70's bands & albums that're now virtually unknown

[@stevendavid5370]

I think it is amazing that generations after our generation are enjoying the music of the 70s-80s. Yes this was a fantastic discussion.

[@wolf1977]

Good music is good music. I often don't understand when people call music "dated", using it as a slur to imply that it's not good because it sounds like a style that was popular years ago. To me that's really not addressing the actual quality of that music - so what if a 2010 album is in the style of 70's rock? Even if true, is it good or not? Seems to me that's the much more important question. It's OK to mention the "dated" style/sound but seems like a lazy move to then use that to dismiss the actual music

[@einarassipavicius1991]

I'm somewhat in the middle between Pete and Martin in this discussion. I generally find late 70s / early 80s production more bright and enjoyable, but I think early 70s songwriting is more profound. The latter statement might originate from me being a huge prog rock fan. But with the time I catch myself leaning more towards later albums. As examples I can take my two favourite prog rock bands: Van der Graaf Generator and King Crimson. I used to listen to lots of first generation VdGG stuff back in the day, now just give me Godbluff, Still Life, World Record and even The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome - and I'm completely satisfied. With King Crimson it's even more radical: at first I enjoyed early King Crimson the most, then I was a huge Wetton era fan and now I started to appreciate their Red, Blue and Yellow a lot... and not even 10 years ago I didn't get either of these three. And I would add Rush: I'm 100% with Martin's choice of Rush top3 albums: Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and Signals. Now I need to elaborate on a couple of points. Firstly, age. I was born in 1998 and discovered majority of my favourite music in early 2010s. So I don't have this factor of "discovering freshly released music" at all. And I still evaluate qualities of early 70s music similarly as Pete and late 70s music similarly as Martin. So there's some degree of objectiveness in our evaluations. I didn't have to live during the production of this great music to 'get' its greatness. But I agree, that in the future people will generally appreciate later years albums more just because of the brighter production. I can imagine how disturbing early 70s might sound to teenager in 2020s. Second thing, 1974... Martin mentioned that this year gets a lot of complaints. Well, two out of three my all-time favourite albums were released in 1974 (King Crimson - Red and Camel - Mirage). And the third one (VdGG - Godbluff) was released only one year later. Also, Supertramp - Crime of the Century is an album I worship a lot. Enough reasons to be satisfied with the year.

[@knightvisioniixv]

I get the feeling that music journalists were directly responsible for the whole thing about 1974 being a not-so-good year, and, before too long, a considerable number of people paying attention to them (through their writings/interviews) adopted this line of thinking. I could be very wrong. With that said, I remember listing it as my personal fav year (when Pete did a show on that topic), mainly because my top album is from that year, as are several others that I love dearly. I think it was also fantastic for music that might not have been so mainstream, but this could depend on certain factors (specifically popularity, or lack thereof, by location.) Either way, the whole '70s decade was excellent!

[@danielmcevoy976]

I'm all over the place. I got into Kiss because my older brother had Alive and then I got the first 3. Destroyer came out and he said that doesn't sound like Kiss anymore. I was 7 and thought it sounded fantastic. I liked R&R Over and Love Gun most of my life because of the sound as Martin said. Now at 51 I LOVE Sonic Boom and Monster. It's more grounded to me, more mature...not just about sex. You can really hear the bass too. Scorpions I always preferred Blackout and after. Now that I'm older I LOVE the Uli era stuff.

[@brianreaney1518]

For me the music of the seventies that matters is the product that has stood the test of time and the bands that are still popular and whose albums are still relevant also bands that have young people getting into them I remember in the 90s getting my girlfriends 14 year old brother to babysit while we went out one night he was into all the chart stuff and when we came back being slightly drunk I put on one of my eagles albums he was in bed but the next morning he asked me who I was listening to the night before as he really liked it after that he was always listening to my albums which included the eagles thin Lizzy steely Dan Bruce Springsteen rolling stones Jackson Browne and many others the strange thing about it was a few months later he babysat again and we let him bring some of his friends around and were surprised when we returned and found them having a party with Springsteens born to run blasting out with a bunch of teens listening to it so I think it's these artiste's who are and were the best just because they're appreciated by younger generations

[@GBCR]

Dammint, I must get that On Your Feet T-Shirt. A very great and not so well known live album that belongs i the pantheon of live albums like Made In Japan, Unleashed In The East, Rockin' Every Night, & so on...

[@elfman5176]

Agreed I want that shirt Love BOC

[@srobbins1973]

Great discussion guys

[@DangerHiVoltage]

Not sure if Martin will ever read this but when debating past musicians v current musicians, its a historicism v presentism debate. Presentism is the interpretation and evaluation of historical events in terms of contemporary knowledge and standards and this is usually seen as a form of cultural bias when analysing history. It's always best to evaluate historical acts, and in this case historical musicians, in a vacuum of their own period. Great topic as always nonetheless. Thoroughly enjoyed!

[@wolf1977]

Well there's the phrase "History is Written by Victors" (Winston Churchill?) meaning that history is not this fixed thing that only accurately reflects what really happened. Unless you were there (and sometimes even if you were) you get your history from the winner's interpretation of what happened. Also history changes over time as new facts come out...I think I get where you're going but when we're talking about favorite albums I'm not sure that history plays that much of a role, to me the personal experiences you're bringing to bear when you listen to (process) music seems like it's much more influential as to what you'll like/dislike. For example I don't need to know the full history of the Vietnam war to know I like Hendrix (although it can add some context to the music)... I'm not sure if that's what you're even discussing when you say "debating past musicians v current musicians". Martin's a professional music critic & author so he's probably coming at music from a different perspective than most of us music fans

[@MartinPopoff]

I can't figure out which is which there, but very cool. Like if you wipe the dates off the back of the albums and compare, which is it, and also which do you think is better?

[@DangerHiVoltage]

@@wolf1977 Of course history is written by the victors but it still doesn't mean we should add a form of cultural bias when assessing historical facts. Also, when new facts come to light, those facts still existed in the past, it's simply that we are only aware of it now. This doesn't provide an argument against historicism. I'll provide a simple example as to what I mean by presentism being a form of cultural bias - we now live in a much more socially aware society, woke culture, whatever you want to call it. Does this mean we should remove statues and resent people for living with morals that were socially acceptable at the time? If that is all anyone knew, how are we to impart our own cultural bias on them to say it was wrong? We have the great gift of hindsight that those in the past didn't have. Adopting a presentist viewpoint could mean in the future our own morals are regarded as wrong and only those living in the present will be 'right'. The historian Andrew Roberts had a great quote: "If we topple Nelson, what do we do about the pyramids, built at least in part by slave labour?". I'm not a proponent of slavery, I'm not against woke culture per se and neither are historians that suggest presentism should not be used. It's just a form of analysis that inevitably yields bias. In respect to music, I was simply referring to Martin's comments on comparing Bonzo to his son Jason, or even older v newer Motörhead albums. Is Steve Vai or John Petrucci more technical than Jimi Hendrix? Of course. Does that mean they are better? A presentism would say 'yes', the historicists would say 'not necessarily'. Hendrix did not have the same vast sources of knowledge to learn from etc. Again, the fact that Martin had a hard time comparing Neil Peart to Mike Mangini, even though he knew Mike Mangini was more technical but acknowledging that Neil Peart came first. It's a debate of historicism v presentism which I always found fascinating when discussing music. But at the end of the day, music is subjective and to say one is better than another is never wrong. It's just good to put that historical 'asterisk' when comparisons are made.

[@DangerHiVoltage]

@@MartinPopoff Music is subjective. What ever you think is better, is better. I was simply stating the relevance of the historicism v presentism debate that you alluded to when comparing Neil Peart to Mike Mangini. I always find your views on music to be very well presented and I thank you and Pete for the great content!

[@wolf1977]

@@MartinPopoff I would be up for that experiment, especially with bands that have a retro sound but came out much later. Like in the world of audio products, a "double blind" experiment to eliminate (or at least minimize) chance, then let's see who can identify the real 70's band!

[@wernermoritz882]

There is an easy explanation: in 1975 music somehow stopped being clanky and depressive. 😅 great episode, cheers from Germany!

[@marksimpson4258]

Cats in space on UK conection.... Ooo love that 👍

[@martinanderson4873]

Great video gents once again, Can I please ask where I can get Martin's books in the UK - his website does not allow orders outside the US or Canada?

[@MartinPopoff]

Almost every book has Paypal buttons for international. I think it's only the Bowie I can't do - you might have checked that one first!

[@lateramae]

Though it's not always the case, people usually treasure the albums they have a history with. For example, my first AC/DC shirt I bought was a replica tour shirt for the 'Ballbreaker' album and now, it's my favorite album from the band. Then, there's also that "you had to be there" type of situations where people tend to gravitate towards an album that was popular at the time. For example, with Saxon's 'Denim and Leather' and 'Wheels of Steel,' those were big albums for them back in the day (maybe still to this day), but for me, they're not my favorites of the band's catalog. I think I mentioned this before in another comment, but I prefer the later albums (like post 2000s) over the earlier ones.