Why Ceres Fauna Graduated and The Future of Hololive

[@Keniisu]

❪ Clarifying a point I made about the push toward an "Idol" direction by the company ❫ My working theory is that while Fauna did love being an Idol as she expressed - I think there's an increased demand by the company to engage in such activities that exceeded expectations of certain talent who joined Hololive, as stated by Laplus in the following clip: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jni8cnatec6Cr7c Given that pressure to engage in events, performances and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and less intense 'Idol' stuff like songs/covers has been expressed to be a problem in the past for other talent, both former and present, I think it's clear this doesn't align with some of the existing talent's desires and expectations.

[@SaxonBlue2]

I think this is all very unwise on Cover's part. 1) They clearly recruited a whole bunch of talents with streaming experience and skillsets that do not lend themselves to idol work. 2) I think they've underestimated the degree to which OS fans will follow their oshis if they leave, as they did with Doki and Dooby. 3) I think Japanese investors have, like they did with Nijisanji, grossly misunderstood the OS fanbase and what they're interested in. There's a real risk that this will see a lot of EN talents and fans depart, leaving HoloEN a bit of a hollow husk of its former self, with only the JP branch retaining any real support.

[@thatanimegirlwiththecape4807]

This graduation feels wrong compared to the rest. Its forced, sudden, and you can hear it in faunas voice that she wanted to stay. Be a part of it and continue doing big things. It feels like she leaves because something bad happened, and not because its time. There was so much more she could offer in the company and so much feels unfinished. This shouldnt happen. I feel it in my heart 😭

[@synceno821]

ame decided to quit long ago, aqua got tired of idol activities then chloe's health and the little mix of everything. then fauna on other hand actually enjoyed the idol activities so the reason must be different.

[@thatanimegirlwiththecape4807]

@synceno821 yeah and she was half crying saying she wanted to stay and just the way she just bluntly says "disagreement with management". If they did something to her i wont forgive them. I know there is a possibility for it to not be a big deal. But for a whole ass graduation to happen so suddenly and fauna being so broken and let down... idk man...

[@menowski]

@@synceno821 Enjoying idol activities does not mean she is willing to go to Japan a few times a year and also stream less and less due to other, constantly increasing responsibilities. Hololive was streaming first-idol second company, but starting this year and going forward, it is the other way around, shifting more and more to other direction. And many people that joined Hololive 2 years ago+ did not sign up for that. Now we will see the consequences of that. Also have in mind, that recently there were instances that some projects of some talents have been recently rejected/avoided to help (like in Regis case), and others have been ignored/refused to help (like in Kroniis case with gaming licences). Hololive is changing in a way some talents will not agree/tolerate with and will leave. It looks like recent events are only the beginning and sadly will be a constant thing in 2025

[@hanabal898]

Investors is the problem its simple.... the more they invest in cover as well, the more power they will have over yagoo as well. the future will be up to what the investors want not yagoo

[@amanawolf9166]

@@hanabal898 If I remember this right, there's one investor group that makes me puke. If BR did invest in Cover, they are pulling serious strings as they don't mess around with money.

[@erumesu]

Kiara's members-only stream from today debunks the speculation in this video. I recommend checking it out. In summary, she said the graduations aren't connected, and they're not tied to any specific change within Cover. It has nothing to do with Cover going public or Hololive becoming more idol-focused. Nothing has fundamentally changed, the idol activities are optional, the members can opt out from concerts if they want, even from fes. It's just that management isn't perfect and never was, there's friction all the time, like in any company. Kiara herself has a lot of problems with management. And this friction is very personal for each talent, it depends on their goals, their dislikes, and how they interact with management. So, while some talents find things perfectly fine, for others the frustrations build up over time, until they reach the point where the cons outweight the pros and decided to leave. Finally Kiara said that despite her frustrations, she stills likes Hololive and wants to see it succeed.

[@brianwalsh1339]

Good on Kiara for doing that, wish it wasnt in a member’s only stream

[@deckyfx2188]

​@@erumesu and La+ public stream debunked that debunk, La+ stated that she understand why Chloe graduated and one of the reasons was because Hololive get bigger and bigger and the tallent is required to go to office more often, doing more various acticities other than stream and taking lessons.

[@fredrickordo5828]

@@erumesu I mean sure friction happens and people screw up, however having 4 talents walk in fairly short order is rather concerning. This is also on top of Ina being on hiatus the rest of the year because management screwed up her visa process. Just as an outsider looking in, it looks like management has a big competency problem at the moment. If they don’t figure it out, this problem is going to get worse.

[@erumesu]

@@deckyfx2188 That's not accurate. Laplus said that before joining Hololive she thought the job would be easier, but after joining she realized it was a lot more work than she expected. She didn't say anything about the amount of work changing recently. If anything, she mentioned that the opportunities to do concerts are fewer than before (probably referring to the fact that they only get one 3D live per year now, instead of two)

[@ohwell9937]

this is the reason why I was so skeptical with what people are saying about causing the graduations, saying it's because "cover is gearing towards becoming an idol company" something like that... maybe from the talk pekora made about the change in direction that the company is going to, and aqua's reasoning of graduation saying that she disagrees to said direction... and then ame who ceased her activities but became an affiliate kinda solidified that theory, because you know, people thought ame didn't like the idol activities, even though she didn't said anything like that or about the direction cover is going being her reason for stopping her activities... but none of them said, specifically that the company is going to become idol centric... if Kiara of all people is defending hololive still, then I'm gonna stick with hololive a bit longer... But of course, people will still just go with that narrative because you know, it's the only logical conclusion to them... even though there are many freaking them reasons to be made, and each member probably even have their own different reasons for leaving hololive... edit: In my mind the problem in management has gotten worse... and they are starting to power trip their talents... if Cover doesn't do something about it, they'll end up becoming like the other company... they need to restructure and probably fire people that are causing trouble within the management...

[@ShadowFox10587O]

You can hear in her voice she's upset about it. Obviously she isn't going to reveal what happened behind the scenes but where there's smoke there's fire. I don't think hololive will collapse or anything but its probably not going to be the same hololive in 5 years.

[@blackwatertv7018]

It’s a part of the being a professional sometimes you get managers, which are just simply awful and sometimes people simply just decide to quit/resign . She doesn’t strike me as someone to go full scorched earth like Doki did (and she was right to do it)

[@ShadowFox10587O]

@blackwatertv7018 Oh I don't blame her for not talking about it she's being professional. They had a disagreement and couldn't work it out so she left. Understandable that happens all the time. The thing it isn't just fauna alot of them are leaving and others have talked about how frustrating they can be on the back end. We'll probably never know the full story but it seems like hololive isn't a fun company to work with.

[@mattex2655]

@@ShadowFox10587O Having fun in a company, it will never always be like this unfortunately, life is like this, as with every job that exists. It is frustrating but defining the environment in a certain way is difficult, we will never know anything about what goes on behind the scenes

[@ShadowFox10587O]

@@mattex2655 I don't mean having fun as in a party everyday. I mean if it becomes such a bad work environment that it becomes a revolving door because everyone keeps leaving that's bad for the company in the long run. Especially for a company like Hololive that is driven mostly by individual personalities.

[@TheFrev]

"I don't think hololive will collapse or anything" ... I thought the same thing about Nijisanji En. The reality is, if fans become disillusioned with the company, and the original talents back away, people will hate the company, want their oshis to be free, and want the company to fail. Maybe the JP side will continue, but us fans will rather follow the talents, not the company. It is why I watch Dooby, Mint and Dokibird. Bad management will kill a company like this. Personally, I think having too many of your big talents leave, but continue to stream is opening the door for them to form an idol company owned by themselves. They may end up making their own competition.

[@x0mbi3z]

Its terrible we are loosing Fauna, she was an absolute diamond. However we arent loosing the person behind her, and will meet her again, real soon.

[@OK-zo3cq]

Well you know the saying goes: when life gives you lemon, you make leaf. Wait.... Lemon.... Leaf.... Lemon leaf.... Hmmmm

[@pocketiland3214]

In a ideal world you invest into a company because you actually know the company and love what they do and so you invest to make them better, not to push your ideals onto the company. *COugh* not just cover corp

[@AzureIV]

This started happening since Hololive went public. The main thing Hololive fans should be looking towards is Shirakami Fubuki. She said that if Hololive becomes a bad company that she can't believe in anymore, that she will leave. If Fubuki leaves, I think Hololive is going to take a huge dive in public perception.

[@bishopwerst]

to be fair, Fauna said it wasn't because of the idol stuff, it was disagreement with management.

[@iTrollerNoob]

Which she followed immediately with, "I love streaming", which everyone always leaves out. It's definitely something about pushing for more idol activities as opposed to mainly streaming, which she prefers to do more of.

[@bishopwerst]

@ which she also said “I love being an idol”. Look I’m hurt too. And I agree the idol thing is the main thing that pushed ame, chloe, and aqua away. But let’s not manipulate faunas words just to fit an agenda. I’m pissed too that fauna is leaving. She is my kamioshi.

[@ToasterDsG]

​​@@bishopwersttheres a MASSIVE difference between enjoying idol activities to actually living the idol lifestyle, which includes the micromanagement of your life in order to protect the brand from any potential harm that can be done to it. This happens in most big corporations, but this is particularly worse in the asian entertainment industry. THE PUSH into a more idol direction plus new management (most of whom come directly FROM the idol industry), is gonna lead to creative disagreements between talents and corporate. You have suits telling creatives how to be creative; and thats always a recipe for disaster. So yes, unfortunately it IS due to the more Idol direction cover is going; even if we don't want to believe it or admit it .

[@bishopwerst]

@ yes agreed. But let’s not manipulate faunas words. That’s what’s pissing me off about all this from fans on top of covers stupid management.

[@bennydelon]

@@bishopwerst Aqua and Chloe were some of the most music-focused members, the idea that they left because they didn't want to sing and dance is ridiculous.

[@ppmv4285]

If I may speculate, I imagine it might be because of idol culture, but not necessarily being an idol. When HoloEN for debuted, it was during the pandemic, so concerts and whatnot were limited. So I'd ve willing to bet that people who auditioned for Gen 2 wanted something more akin to that at the start. Now since things have been opening up more, Hololive has wasted no time into delving into idol culture, but I think with things such as the recent Camilla scare where someone put a tag on a gift for her and used a sledgehammer to break into her house, Cover might be trying to implement more of the idol lifestyle onto them. They'll say it's "for her protection" and while they might mean that, it's more in line with a brand protection and that's where a potential disagreement might have come from. I also think potentially that Fauna might have seen how successful Dooby was after going indie and might try to follow in her footsteps.

[@Pudding404]

This seems to just be a thing with vtubers companies genetally. Hololive may be the big company when it comes to vtubing, but we still see dysfunction seeping through the cracks.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

I could understand the investor’s perspective of going into full idol mode because in English the only idol’s we have are probably Kpop so they’re tapping into that resource. But they need to realize that’s a completely different story. Hololive isn’t built on “here’s a perfect person with the best looking hair and best sounding voice” It’s built on personality. As much as I hate to admit it, Vtubing is reliant on a parasocial relationship. Can’t have that when a person is hiding behind an avatar. Sure there’s Miku, Sure there’s Kasuna ai, but they have fan’s. Vtuber’s and fans in general like the personality, like their voice, their little antics. Not some corporate smiling, but some emotion.

[@Kirivera]

That's why I love Hololive. They were already idols in my eyes, but... It's like they also had this more human side to them that we got to see when they played video games. It's a huge shame that they want to move away from that... But maybe they just want more singing and dancing, and not necessarily less gaming streams? I don't know.

[@arttizkappa2588]

The core of vtuber industry is the talent themselves

[@christianeugenio818]

yagoo protect your talents please

[@Kirivera]

He must be torn on that. He has a ton of employees who depend on him, too. But I also understand that it's the talents who are the real magic that makes it all happen.

[@АннаЗинурова]

With only ~30% of Cover Copr. stocks owning, he can't do shit.

[@taylorchesser8990]

Assuming that the problem is investors pushing for less streaming and more idol activities, what they fail to realize is that the streaming side builds interest in said idol activities. It creates a community, it makes the idol a person. You can't just debut a new set of idols every six months with "this is your new favorite character, buy their merch." Of course, the same could be said of pretty much any investor or executive that pushes for immediate gains without respecting the how or why.

[@aimanhafiz4621]

Yeah feel sad for fan one time okey second and third nah fan will upset😢

[@MrHidePatten]

If they continue in this direction I could see Mumei following suit. She’s shared previously that she doesn’t intended to live in Japan and be close to the studio due to her pets. But I suppose if she did leave she could casually collab with another bird, one that makes your heart go doki doki…

[@stehouse]

@@MrHidePatten ame, doki, mumei and mint collab. Sounds like a dream

[@SaxonBlue2]

Yes, she has struggled to balance Hololive and RL stuff before, and has previously considered leaving because of this. Plus the loss of Fauna will be hard for her. With both Doki and Fauna now indie, she may follow suit.

[@rvpairofdicethewanderer2383]

Ever since Mumei revealed to us that she's currently a Law Student, I knew that she may not last long in Hololive. Law and Medicine Colleges take the life our of you as much as corpo jobs and we have seen many Streams where Mumei is too mentally battered to think, which is the main cause of her clumsiness in Collabs and Games.

[@ramondelgado4927]

Honestly , with Fauna gone , Mumei is soon to follow (she has always been sort of a nomad from what she has spoken , moving around , never quite settling and disliking being static) , and after 3 of the OG council left , Kronii who is not really that inclined into music could probably follow not long after , Irys and Bae are commited into the Idol dream (music / dancing career) so no problem there , Advent and Justice are also commited with very strong singers (rissa and liz ) and good performers (cece , shiori , the twins) but have some weak points (GiGi , Biboo , Raora) who are very much not inline with the Idol/music path , the only one in doubt from Myth would be Ina who likes idol stuff so far but did said that she almost graduated due to some "internal issues" but stepback fromt he ledge due to the girls encouragement and support , meanwhile Calli , Wawa and Goobs are very much musically inclined in their activities and goals ID is in serious trouble tho , i dont follow them much outside collabs and clips , but from what i know , aside from Rissu and Moona , everyone else is basically 100% a streamer with little to no idol/music tendency , hope im wrong tho

[@oreki22]

It's interesting how this last year has really shifted my views on graduation. Yes, it's still sad. But seeing so many vtubers become indie while retaining their audience with more freedoms (Doki, Mint, Dooby etc.) kinda makes me happy to see what they'll do with that new freedom from a company

[@LichCrypt]

I don't even think the idol direction is the problem since Fauna herself said she wanted to continue being an idol. She gave us her reason: problems with management. That's what we should demand answers about. What's going on with management? Multiple talents have left this year and more have complained about them.

[@Keniisu]

My working theory is that while she loved being an Idol, I think there's an increased demand by the management in the company to engage in such activities, to the point where it exceeded expectations. The pressure to engage in events, songs and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and standard 'Idol' stuff has been something expressed to be a problem in the past by other talent, both former and present.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

If we can compile what we know have been the Talents gripes with Management caused issues... Altare literally chewed the sheer lack of support Holostars, especially the EN side, yet them HAVING to keep obeying the company's strict demands. He had to fix the mocap harware himself after FOUR MONTHS of it collecting dust in the JP HQ. Ina's Visa issues (Likely part of the problem was Hololive fucking with the documents they needed to give her so the Visa renewal for Work could be done, dunno how else Hololive would be the ones to blame for her Visa issues). Kiara periodically complaining about the slips or outright problems with Management. Gura and numerous other talents complaints of their project ideas being shut down and any where money was already spent, no reimbursements. Marine speaking how stricter Management has been getting, causing her main schtick to being more and more limited, and projects being denied of course. Pekora being sad at how Hololive shifted heavily into a direction she disagrees with, but it hasn't gotten to the point of a dealbreaker. Laplus telling how the workload got super intense in recent times, and while she is ok doing so, she agrees it is going to be a dealbreaker for others in Holo. Iroha had a voice loss due to stress, due to the intense routine she was having to do. The problems are piling up, my guess is we will see a totally diferent Hololive once the older, more stream focused or those not as into sacrificing stream time for Idol content, leave. Hololive will honestly likely turn what Yagoo envisioned at the start, like an AKB48, Idols, with a very small dose of stream on the side.

[@Fxrrxt2x]

I'm not even that sad with the news about Fauna. I learned from Coco, Ame and Salen that they'll be fine, and that I can just follow whatever they do next. But I bet Yagoo must be feeling really torn. On one hand, he deeply cares about all the talents, I know he does, but on the other hand, he must do whatever it takes for the survival of the company, and he needs those investors. I wouldn't want to be in that position....

[@Kirivera]

@@Fxrrxt2x What I find to actually miss is the collabs. The girls always have such great chemistry together, and it's a shame that all just vanishes. I have a feeling that Gura's time is almost up, but I also think she'll be happier independent, and it'll be nice to see whatever form she takes on next being able to hang out with Ame, or Dooby, again.

[@fushiro1589]

@@Kirivera she definitely waiting for her contract to expire

[@janarcangel49]

​​@@KiriveraSee, when it comes to Gura, she's actually the opposite. She's burnt out with streaming but digs the idol side/promotions outside of it. So, I doubt she's on her way out.

[@Kirivera]

@@janarcangel49 Yeah, I suppose you're right. I just wish we saw more of her, as long as it's to a healthy amount for her, of course.

[@benjamindonahue9434]

It is interesting to think about at least. All of my oshis are the more performative types (Calli, Bae, Nerissa, Liz, Suisei, with Kaela being the exception) so I don't see them leaving soon. It was certainly the music that got me into Vtubers/HL, but it's definitely the streaming and/or collaborative content that actually made me want to learn about them and really become a fan. The concerts are certainly my favorite content but I view that as the height of what they do and almost completely meaningless without getting to know them through their other content. I suppose a silver lining to corporate Vtubers leaving is that a good portion of fans seem to follow the talent should they resume independantly, just kinda sucks iff you only knew them as that character first (Vesper, Magni, Selen, Pomu, Ame, Fauna (just the example I can think of off hand)). Said it half jokingly when it happened, but maybe A chan really will be like the Harambe meme. Everything started going down hill when she left...... Keep watch on Fubuki!

[@SoraKairiLeonhartfan]

Fubuki is many things; a storm of fur, decibels, and steel... a very good friend... and, metaphorically speaking- -the canary in the coal mine, the Cadia, the 300 Spartans, *the* last stand of Hololive. If Fubuki leaves... then we all leave.

[@Bomber_Fish]

I'm a Nijisanji fan and it is sad to say that i have seen this happened before. I have been screaming on top of my lungs about how Nijisanji's sharp turn into what they are today are caused by their shareholders changing stuff around like they know what the hell they are doing. Nobody cares about my theory then and people are just keep parroting each other and said "Riku Tazumi bad" and keep forgetting how little the power a CEO have when the shareholders are taking over. Now it happened again, these shareholder blob is consuming cover corp. There is a few ways to stop this take over but it is pretty much impossible at this point, Cover corp is already losing control of the situation. I think this is it guys.. the Hololive we know today might be over.

[@Bomber_Fish]

Even though i was right for realizing the danger of shareholders taking over while being called "a bot" by Hololive fans back in the days, I will not be here to say "Told you so" because we are all cooked at this point. Even though i'm more of a Nijisanji fan today, I started watching VTtuber from Kizuna A.I era and then started watching Livestream form of Vtuber content from Sora and Robocco. The truth is i do love both Vtubers from the two agencies. Now all i can do is brace for impact and hope that Hololive didnt hit the ground as hard as Nijisanji.

[@arttizkappa2588]

History repeats itself

[@janarcangel49]

it's always tbe guys in the suits man.

[@Timmothy_plays]

The curious thing about Fauna's graduation is that she said that she loves streaming and she loves the idol work, so the question is, what could the disagreement with management be about? Honestly it's like as if they gave her the option of graduation or termination, because again it must be repeated, but Fauna actually loved being an Idol!

[@Keniisu]

My working theory is that while she loved being an Idol, I think there's an increased demand by the company to engage in such activities that exceeded expectations. The pressure to engage in events, songs and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and standard 'Idol' stuff has been something expressed to be a problem in the past by other talent, both former and present.

[@SaxonBlue2]

@@Keniisu Even Bae talked about how difficult it had become for her to continue, and felt that it was only possible if she moved permanently to Japan. I think it's very shortsighted of Cover to do all this. And they clearly recruited talents that weren't well suited to be idols (not much of a singing voice, no previous experience with stage performances), so the pivot away from streaming to concerts and other idol work does seem quite... odd. Even in the newer gens, there are clearly talents recruited for skillsets other than signing and dancing.

[@FoxYinnyy]

I recently checked the website of Hololive and the vibe that I got from it was that they were actually looking for potential idols rather than having streamers who have a knack for that and being entertaining. It kinda felt a bit weird to me since I always felt like that was not really the main focus for a lot of VTubers? I am quite new to VTubers but I always kinda felt like they just like to create a community without having to keep pushing themselves to do things they don't want to do. And also mostly being streamers without having to put their identity public. So hearing that bigger corpos are doing things is not surprising to me, but it's always saddening for sure.

[@megalodon7916]

What was that about Sweet Baby Inc.? Surely Hololive wasn’t dumb enough to associate with those human cancer cells. I know they are definitely not behind the recent graduations. That’s ridiculous. Still, I sincerely hope they weren’t dumb enough to let that curse of a company have anything to do with their business. If they did, they will more than likely come to regret it eventually.

[@Keniisu]

Hololive has investors from Vanguard and BlackRock, however they have a >1% share, so it’s unlikely they’re influencing things at all. Despite this, some have said because of their recent new development in California and these investments that there may be consultants being pushed from these two corporations. I think this is a massive leap.

[@deckyfx2188]

People also speculated this is related to why Cover open a branch in CA.

[@Sansnessundertale]

Now I have not really been watching hololive in general these past few months, but i too think that they lean more towards idols and keeping investors. Which depending on the hololive girl, they want to stream and have fun more than doing that, and that’s probably why we have all of these graduations.

[@kissena3830]

Not all investors are bad. It is just that more people with money are greedy. What you should be looking are investors that are not greedy or align with your company ethics and policy. Also, not all investors are shareholders. And technically, everyone can be an investor

[@pforgottonsoul]

i think going too far into the idol direction would be detrimental(atleast to the EN side) not only are a lot of fans not really into the idol stuff a lot of the talents themselves are better as streamers as well.

[@gehtdichnixan9005]

I read that this might be because talents hired during *that time* (you know which one) got the wrong impression on what this job entails. Now that everything is back to normal, idol activities are ramping up again and talents, who had the impression that this is mostly streaming with idol activities on the side, are starting to leave because of this.

[@pforgottonsoul]

@@gehtdichnixan9005 i feel that can be part of it but i think it goes deeper than that since expectations are made pretty plain during auditions.

[@Hogminn]

I used to think this too, but Fauna explicitly mentioned how she enjoyed the idol activities, so.

[@JustinT2]

Its obvious they aren't doing that with the EN side, unless they are planning on doing an opera with Nerissa, ERB, and Cece playing violin, (That would be fucking awesome btw) the only "idol like" talents they have hired have been fuwamoco.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

Management issues can be many things. But most likely the ramping of the Idol reps (Choreography, Dancing, Singing, tons of training routines), mass commercialization on Deals which likely require by law the Talent's physical presence during talks and signing the deal, and how generally they are clearly steering more and more towards more "safe", "stable", "run of the mill" for Stteaming or Idol content to try maximizing the reach of all of them (Aka the delusional thing beancounters love to pursue, the "Wider Audience", which for 99% of everyone sane, nowadays means the dregs that crap like Soyny's Concord target as an Audience). Fauna's disagreement might been one of these being pushed by Management. Or it could have been something not as company wide that she could agree with nor work in a company housing such issue.

[@pleaseclap7890]

I think part of it is also just that Hololive is hitting that phase in a company’s life cycle where a lot of the early members start wanting to explore other job opportunities. Like if you just view this the way you would any other job, working for 3-4 years at the same company with the same job is a pretty good run and you don’t really need some big reason to wanna explore other opportunities.

[@rign_]

Investors can indeed gives and inject funds to Hololive, sadly as it's still a double edge sword where the investor itself can become snakes. I hope Fauna become much more happier and more successful in the future.

[@ragnid]

@@rign_ ikr! Yup

[@theactualparadox]

I’d like to imagine that things started changing in ways that Fauna just decided to pull a girlboss and start her own thing. She made it very clear that she did not want to leave because of anything else other than management and made it seem like she’d be reborn very soon

[@Kirivera]

We'll follow her with whatever she does next. Hololive was just a stepping stone to get her name out there. And now, like Watson and Coco, she has a built-in fanbase who will follow her for her.

[@sebastian420]

Mumei and Gura will be the next i think. Kiaria do a memership explain/defend cover, like the side of god o the devil

[@RobertStoll]

Both Altere and Gura have had issues going on as well. There's for sure something going on. The thing is these talents, especially from well known agencies, stand the best chance without an agency. Hell some were already doing it without an agency before joining them.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

For established names. Perhaps they wanted to restart without their past luggage bogging down the new content, but the investmwnt to restart wasn't worth, but a Corpo shouldering that brunt of initial costs made it worth. Until it stopped being worth it. For Gura, it is clear she isn't happy at all with the direction things are going, since it is likely what's making Management block her projects that hard (and if the Reinbursement thing is true, then they are doing a Niji tier BS and she's having to cough some dought before it gets shot down, making those expenses infuriaring to keep happening). Hololive is likely spending A SHIT TON in benefits and sweeteners so she doesn't go ham and publicly tell everyone she is leaving Hololive. She leaves, Holo EN vessel will have been hit by their Selen/Doki Cruiser Missile, one with pointy sharp teeth, and an even bigger payload of a fanbase eager for marching orders.

[@ToasterDsG]

@@andrehashimoto8056 Shit dude, you even have people like Marine starting to get really jaded with management too; if shit really hits the fan she could bail too, especially after her deal with UMJ ends. And Marine might even be a more brutal loss, since shes huge domestically.

[@SaxonBlue2]

Yes, my take away from Regis and Gura is that it isn't just the increased idol workload, which can be extremely rough for talents not living in Japan, but also a demoralising lack of management support for non-idol activities. Also, Gura leaving Hololive would be disastrous. Her face recognition in Japan is immense.

[@akira8393]

Yagoo made a whole video where he wants his vtubers to be ip like disney. I'm pretty sure i know why he makes dev is in the first place.

[@RianLKLock]

Those darn investors only care about money

[@Jailtino-p1q]

As much as I hate this, it makes sence, that you want to get more money out of your investment, especially when its I dont know what shares are worth, but lets just say 10k U$D. Of course you want that back and at best every time with more profit. But yes ignoring everything for the sake of quik stupid money is well... stupid, because youu quikly lose money this way.

[@akira8393]

I mean it is business afterall

[@onionhat745]

Investors rarely consider fully the cost of alienating fans.

[@millor3san_ch]

Investors..., They probably forgot who buy tickets to go to the concert and to go to for

[@algfourty9185]

Yagoo's argument of "needing investors to stay afloat" seems ludicrous when the eye-test would suggest thousands of dollars flowing in through superchats alone on a daily basis. Of course we really know the answer to that... Capitalism... When all of the money is not enough money.

[@asura3888]

Sometimes that alone just isn't enough to keep a company afloat. It's likely that if cover wanted to continue to grow and sustain itself they would've needed that investment.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

Stop blaming Capitalism as if Coomminism is the answer to all woes of the Universe (It is as much of an answer as answering that 2+2 equals Banana, you're wanting to ignore and defy how reality operates). This problem is from INVESTOR RELIANCE. Were things to be allowed a Normal Capitalistic operation without Investors (the ones demanding Line go up every damn Investor Report during Financial Quarters), businesses would be operating at the capacity they can, expanding through firmly setting foundations and spare funds savings. Slow but reliable growth, and then keeping the size where it can operate at the equilibrium of balance.

[@kelvinw.1384]

​@@asura3888I would argue Phase Connect is doing pretty good despite no investors.

[@AZmaybe9]

Quite clear now that Hololive made itself unsustainable with like 600 people now a part of it. So the only way through is for the talents to push themselves even harder despite already earning super well? I only see this burning through more and more girls to reach a truly unsustainable vision.

[@rotorhead4757]

I think this is a good analysis of the situation. But personally, I feel it's not entirely "forced by investors" either. Cover chose to go public because they want to move into the entertainment industry. Does that make Cover evil? Absolutely not. Do I personally like it? No. I prefer the streaming first/idol stuff second model.I feel this graduation sadly comes down to difference of vision more than anything

[@jordanpickering6912]

The great thing about Vtubering is the agency that they have, the audience will follow no matter what and the corp barely has any power. Think this all these agencies are beginning to realise that Vtubers don't need them once they are on their feet, and the option to leave is always there. Corps got to learn that till it sticks.

[@BDK86]

Going public with the company im sure wasnt the best idea, but perhaps yagoo had no choice to keep the business going.

[@mattex2655]

Yagoo had no choice, public or Yagoo would be gone and Hololive would be even worse

[@Kirivera]

The sad truth of this world.

[@janarcangel49]

It has been mentioned that Yagoo was backed into a corner, choosing either, sell the company or go public. He chose the latter.

[@SKaede]

When the company grow too big it stopped being a family and starts to see you as a number. While i can't expect all the talents to keep streaming until they're 60s I also don't have the heart to deal with all the sudden parting. This really scares the fans from investing in their oshi for the long run.

[@TheRJOmega]

😢. I feel sad man. I havent eat today after the news broke out...

[@Kirivera]

We'll be alright. Let's follow her in whatever form she takes on next. Maybe, like Ame, Coco, and Salen, she just thrive more as an independent talent.

[@Deceris]

How can Hololive cannot substain without investor, are they making fun of us ?

[@ddddirge]

On the EN side I have a feeling that most of pre-Advent members gonna leave by the end of next year, with only CHaDs and Kiara gonna stay On the JP side although it's gonna be rarer but I think they're not safe either especially the non DEV_IS ones Advent and Justice totally joined when they're probably already know about the new directions, same for DEV_IS so they're probably gonna at least stay for another year

[@OodldoodlNoodlesocks]

I'd be surprised if Kiara stays given everything she's said as her hololive character and on her own personal channel lately. Gura and Ina I would not be surprised to see graduate and I suspect Calli doesn't really need hololive.

[@repetitivefunction]

hard disagree. if nothing else, hololive is still a viable place to grow. For people whose passions align with holo's trajectory, being a part of something like this means fulfilling your dreams. the tragedy is the dreams that get crushed along the way. It seems like if you aren't looking to grow in the 'right ways', you get boxed in and are basically forced to stagnate if that makes any sense. Ina and Kiara i think are two that are still benefiting. Bae and irys as well. but i wouldn't be too surprised if shiori and biboo go, but i do not know them past a surface level, i don't watch them much so i can't say. Gigi and ceci as well, i feel like they came for the streaming and the atmosphere not for the idol culture. Maybe i'm doomposting.. i really really hope cover realizes soon that well over half of their en talents are here for the community and streaming. idk i'm sad.

[@arttizkappa2588]

⁠@@repetitivefunctionnah company rep is go down the hill people are not stupid they gonna realize hololive that they love will not be the same anymore

[@SaxonBlue2]

@@OodldoodlNoodlesocks It's clear Gura is hard disillusioned with Hololive. Not so sure about Ina. Kiara has been discontented with Hololive for years, but that's more to do with favoritism than the push to do more idol work. Kronii and Mumei may also bail. Kronii, because like others she's no idol. Mumei, because she has been struggling to balance RL (ongoing studies) and Hololive for a while now, and the departure of Fauna will hit her as hard as it'll hit the Saplings.

[@HGKaveman]

Finally someone with some common sense. I've always felt like this was for the most part always the case. When you're part of a company, you literally work for the company. This is something the talents know before joining too. They for the most part probably wouldn't have made it by themselves as a single indie streamer. So getting the foot in the door is what Hololive provided so it's weird people would hate and criticize the company when we wouldn't have known of them otherwise. It's not because of poor management it's because the company has to make their talents work and benefit the company. It's all a pretty simple concept really.

[@1rotzy]

So many hololive members are leaving too quickly. What the hell is going on behind those doors? Is Niji not the only company with a black mark?

[@Laksul]

Honestly I'm not that sad about the graduation itself, kind of. Worried about Holo's future? Absolutely. But I knew her PL before this and honestly had suspicions the moment I saw her post on it like 12 days before the announcement. The main reason I'm sad about this graduation or any for that matter is the fact that we probably won't be seeing much interaction between member's new/past lives. Or at least, not on the same scale (I'll miss the KroFauMei and SNOT collabs...) Especially since I'm sure some of them will be staying with Hololive. In the end, am I sad that Fauna probably won't be interacting much on stream with other members both graduated and not? Yes. Am I sad that she's graduating from a company she feels is going a direction that doesn't fit her? Absolutely not. I guess on the bright side Sana and Fauna can collab again if we're lucky?

[@KeebeThePlush]

I hope things can get resolved soon because Chloe is retiring for the same reason

[@rm9346]

What basis do you have for this claim? One talent said "This has nothing to do with management." The second said "This is because of management." The talent asks us to believe their words over internet trolls.

[@LockOn7016]

@@rm9346 ?? fauna said its because of disagreements with mgmt, chloe and Aqua said they don't agree with the way the company is going. go watch the translations

[@blackwatertv7018]

No…? She’s taking the affiliate route.

[@SaxonBlue2]

We don't have any reason to believe that the two graduations are related.

[@lmko]

Bad for Cover that talents see that Corp need them more than they need Corp. But don't want to consider that fact. As employer in other jobs.

[@cantinoch9579]

I wonder if the crazy idol fans being louder than the normal fans gets the investors thinking that these are the normal fans and makes Cover push idol stuff more as a result too.

[@yeskarengayton]

Like... EN fans don't really care for the idol side so I don't why investors push that stuff. I mean it does pay off but then you get situations like this, their big vtubers graduating and fans being angry at Hololive.

[@RDMS360]

I don't know how it works, but, could it be that going for idol stuff, they are trying to sell physical products like accessories or get money from other sources like music streaming?

[@SaxonBlue2]

It's also quite weird, because clearly Cover recruited a buttload of talents whose skillsets did not lend themselves to idol work. Why did they do that, if they were going to hard pivot to idol work in the future? Even in the more recent gens, there have been talents recruited for skillsets that suit streaming more than idol work. It's a bit weird, honestly.

[@lordmetallium9678]

Short answer to new vtubers go indie

[@TriedYan]

I personally am not fond of sweet baby inc but what do they have to do with vtubers they’re a game narrative company

[@KitOkunari]

uuuuuuuuuu

[@L0stC0smonaut]

Man dem vtubers wicked, but Keni mo wickeda dan dem

[@damanamathos]

Investors have zero say in how the company is run day-to-day.

[@kissena3830]

Yes I kind of believe that most EN just want to stream and play (actually some in JP,ID, etc too) But do you think no one wants to sing or dance? Or perform for the big audience? Because that's kind of a bold assumption. Especially EN members who wants their CD, singles, album, dances, etc etc be known. I think it is the "forced unforgiving idol culture" that they don't want. Not exactly the idol part, or singing part, or dancing part. In another note: I hope Cover has the options for those who don't want to be in a concert live.

[@murilo4709]

Graduation means leaving ? I didn't understand very well

[@Keniisu]

Yup, it means leaving the company

[@murilo4709]

@Keniisu thanks

[@KunoichiPeri]

Na, hololive is decaying now....the slow collapse has started...you can't take this kind of damage to your brand name and survive in the long term....its over...they broke the trust with their viewers/customers....RIP!

[@charlyman123]

Feeling mighty anticapitalist rn

[@meriscorditan2799]

Well, it is capitalism after all. Best hope for them in this society would be a worker co-op.

[@Jayvee4635]

7:50 - Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[@davidgil8249]

Cover now its thinking in "meta" no idols (for this reason aqua leave hololive). I think the change in the management its for this, the which afect a lot in the projects from the talents (like altare and ina and maybe the concert of gura) and how work the company in general. December gonna be so importan for cover... leave most talents = leave fan base and credibility = Alredy dont belive in you son

[@aimanhafiz4621]

Fauna😢

[@TylerSafford]

after fauna's graduation i will no longer be supporting cover or hololive

[@kissena3830]

Technically, you are already wrong with the first fact. It is not that there is no direction. It is just that the direction is hard to go to. Because believe it or not, it is still niche. Vtubing have to be somewhat known and be a respectable job. Before anything can really happen.

[@Keniisu]

What I mean when I said “VTuber corporations lack clear sense of direction”, I meant that they don’t know exactly what they want to do and end up trying to do too many things, rather than leaning into one or two areas where they can shine. This is much more evident in smaller corporations than Hololive, however I think Hololive also is at a crossroads now too where they need to decide if they’re an Idol / Media first company or a Streamer / Entertainment first company.

[@kissena3830]

@Keniisu technically true, but have you considered maybe the reason they have many is. Is because I said it is niche? If you are a CEO of a vtubing company, you can't easily know what will work and not. ( well especially for the small ones, but also for the big ones). The only problem here is if you plan too many. That's the problem. (Especially if you don't think about it.) You have to know if your employees can keep up.

[@hadoukenfighter]

I am done with cover and anyone who works there unless this company turns themselves around, they have proven in this year that they are not a good long term investment

[@mattex2655]

You did not listen to what your Oshis said. If you think it only takes one year to undo all the good they have done, you are just pre-judging, we don't know anything about what goes on behind the scenes, we will never be clear about what is happening

[@blackwatertv7018]

So the way I see it, Cover/Hololive can shrug this off and go “meh” and risk ending up becoming Niji/Anycolor OR they can have a long hard think about things and work through it. Keep in mind 2/3 of the recent graduates are still “technically” associated with the company.

[@mattex2655]

I really don't think it's going for Black company but if you think so I don't know what to say, it takes time to become Rotten

[@sphases]

Hololive will be only a place for singers and dancers. In the near future we will se terminations of all the normie game streams and there will only be a handful left.

[@WD_Batora]

Thank you for another highly uninformative and poorly researched video.

[@Keniisu]

My pleasure. Seriously though, you could just actually provide substantive criticism rather than a snide remark though if you genuinely believe there was anything off the mark here, but you won't lol.

[@WD_Batora]

​@@Keniisu You are right about me not being helpful. But wrong about me not willing to try. Just don't shadowban me: - First google "Cover IR". You'll find a Cover webpage where they post reports for investors. There's a PDF there where "concerts and events" are in 3rd place in terms of revenue. Below Merch and Streaming. More details on the downloadable PDFs. - Read about the Hololive Card Game performance and how that's what is currently getting investors all riled up. They are loving how merch is being handled. - Cover produced more idol events in 2023 than in 2024. With HoloGTA and HoloARK, 2024 was definitively a streaming year. Not an "idol" year. - There's a wave of many sololives concerts that we haven't seen before, but those are individual productions involving only a few top talents. It's not something is making everyone fly over to Japan to take part of. - Watch Fauna's 5min stream. On that short stream (that's alarming how many people skipped watching) she clearly stated that she loved being an idol and performing for her fans. That she's leaving for personal disagreements with management. This whole "idol direction is a problem" is a massive narrative that has no place in any hololive-related discussion. - Talents from JP were the first to stream after Fauna and while they didn't know about her intentions, they were sad about the wave of criticisms on social media. - With time other talents in EN and JP have chimed in about the "homework" workload. Clarifying that its fine for them, maybe too much for others. To name a few names: Laplus, Liz, Raora, Pekora said something along these lines. - Talents are letting out that there's been no major changes in the last few months. Talents are leaving for more personal issues that build up over time. - There are operative concerns on the english side of management that's affecting several talents. There's a lot of time wasted. Cover has grown too fast and needs to improve/review their processes because there's a lot of time waste that's impacting the mental health of their talents. Yagoo seemed aware of this, when he mentioned they needed to support English talents better in a ANN October interview.

[@WD_Batora]

​@@Keniisu I posted a long comment that youtube is filtering for some reason. Short version: Concerts and events are 3rd place in the ranking of revenue, more of that on Cover's IR page, everyone's eyes are on the card game atm. Not the concerts. It feels you didn't even watch Fauna's 5 minute stream, where she said she loved being an idol, dancing, singing and performing. It's incredible how people are discussing the idol content when there's been a lot less of it this year and none of the talent have a problem with that aspect of the job. Your video is just going to exacerbate that problem.

[@WD_Batora]

You also presented the video with "let's look at the facts" and then present none of the facts. Like when you presented Yagoo quote wrong: You were going "yagoo seems to state this and that" when the image is clear and doesn't match what you are saying. We can clearly read how they got started thanks to venture investors that funded the company at the start, which is why they had to go public. He isn't talking about current sustainability there. There's a lot of public information out there that you didn't bring in, but you only shared your own speculations and narrative about investors and idol content The fact that one of your sources is Khyo instead of Fauna's 5min stream says it all dude. good try though

[@AdrenResi]

wait wait wait sweet baby inc has stocks in hololive? this is pretty important

[@Keniisu]

They don't have investment. Vanguard and Blackrock have >1% share in the company which caused people to believe they're pushing consultants into the company.

[@ijiikieru]

Please stop with the anti-idol narrative. It just isn't true.

[@sawysauce1256]

Welp it’s hit critical mass. Capitalism is the eventual death of all art. Vtubers are officially as popular as video games and movies so it only makes sense they’ll end up just as bad as video games and movies are doing right now. No creative genius required if you have enough money you can tell every artist exactly what they are going to do whether they like it or not.

[@Jesus-hu4lq]

Well saplings if you ever need some fauna check out Lemongrass she's totally not fauna *wink wink*

[@TheTSense]

Hololive is dead. They failed her. They failed us. They looked at Niji blowing themself up and decided to do that too. I unsubbed and blocked everything. Every talent, every clipper. I am done. Over the next 6 months, most if not all of them will graduate and I don't want to hear about it. Its OVER

[@rm9346]

Yes. I also hear D4 will shut down, and Bobby Kotik will return $400 million in payouts to the players. Trump will be denied access to politics, JFK will return from the dead to take office, Mr. Beast will retire from streaming and Buddhism will become the national religion.