Why Certs Are Better Than Degrees For Working in IT

[@火災のアイスクリーム]

I literally just got my degree for the miserable paper. No joke. Everything, every single little thing I've learned and know until this day was by my own effort and I NEVER needed any subject I saw on college for working.

[@WhaTheFacePalmOil90]

Can relate to that...

[@Michael-mh2tw]

Speaking for yourself, I like that. Not speaking for everyone, though. MO gets everything right, so ofc he has to get at least one thing wrong, and this one thing is university.

[@火災のアイスクリーム]

@Fidelity I actually didn't notice that and I'm not even japanese lol

[@sunnohh]

You played yourself and are delusional

[@seraphinw1]

Same, i'm fucking screaming because all of my professional success so far came from tests I spent a few hundred dollars on, not the college that i spent thousands in and couldn't even do well in because of my disabilities

[@ProfessorSheetMusic]

A big issue with applying for these cybersecurity jobs is that they want you to also have a University education. Sometimes these jobs want you to have a masters at a entry level job. Cybersecurity has a real issue with getting into the industry where they want you to already have experience without giving you the chance to get some experience.

[@Sandact6]

For me that's usually an issue of if they're ever put on the spot, they can say with a straight face "Oh but our employee(s) are highly educated."

[@Excalibur13]

Work your way up in a company to the role you want, start at like data entry or base level and try to work your way up

[@jakdaxter6033]

@@Excalibur13 I agree with working your way up, but I don't think it's right that if someone has a masters they have to start at the absolute bottom.

[@GamerKiwi]

@@Excalibur13 doesn't always work. I thought I was unqualified because my employer kept tossing my application for entry level IT jobs and hiring externals despite excellent performance reviews from all my supervisors and my A+ cert. I start applying externally, and that A+ and customer service experience suddenly started holding tons of weight and got me 4 job offers each one offering more pay than the last.

[@lksw42439]

I got an entree cyber job without a degree/cert just by competing in CTFs and showing I had knowledge, did a SOC analyst job for almost 2 years while I finished my degree and got my first certificate. I know my path is pretty rare tho.

[@GumikoVT]

I'm getting a 2 year degree in software development from a community College and it's all covered by financial aid. It's great for me.

[@martinjakab]

I live in Europe, and in my country we have 12 free semesters. Im doing a 3,5 year Computer Engineering degree, and I think I will have bigger opportunities this way

[@nickn2794]

@@martinjakab You're doing fine. Americans pay a lot (30.000 $ a year) so that's why they think it's not worth it. I can't blame them. Honestly I don't understand why they don't pack and go to Europe haha. It's easier than they think.

[@martinjakab]

@@nickn2794 Yes, and living here is cheaper as well I think. At least apartment-wise. But correct me if Im wrong.

[@nikolaswalter490]

@@martinjakab where exactly do you get 12 free semesters?

[@martinjakab]

@@nikolaswalter490 In Hungary. Im not sure what is the case elsewhere, but here it is 12, ot 14 if you are getting a degree which requires more than 10 semesters (doctor for example)

[@Gamesational1]

Debt does not get passed on to people when you die unless you cosigned with someone.

[@Gamesational1]

(USA)

[@TheCreeperTrack1]

Correct. studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/death

[@kamilst96]

In Poland, children can inherit parent's debt, and might not know it until the collector decides to make a move. If you refuse to inherit from elder, next in line are your children, so you also need to refuse inheritance in their name. I'm not sure how long in chain you have to keep refusing, but I'd feel safe making it a family tradition to refuse inheritance the moment you get birth certificate.

[@wasted5742]

@@kamilst96 this is the most fucked up thing I read today.

[@delightfulsquirtle]

@@wasted5742 it is also that way here in germany. Only if you accept the inheritance though. if you parent doesnt have any money but a whole lot of debt the debt will be passed onto you.

[@JL-sw7mh]

Just signed up for my CompTIA A+, this video couldn't have come at a better time. Cheers famalam.

[@cosmo3665]

good luck, working on Linux+ now

[@quagmiretoiletgaming]

Finishing up this week

[@umaru1942]

how's it going now?

[@JL-sw7mh]

@@umaru1942 about to start a job in digital forensics in the police. Get to grinding, you got this.

[@THApeanutMagician]

@@JL-sw7mh you got that job with just an a+?

[@RN-er7mz]

I feel 16 years of education bought me to learn 2 months course to earn a living

[@dduchovny2270]

!save

[@Suidloc]

This is exactly what has been going through my mind as of late. While getting a degree often gives you a basic set of skills and it gives you time to grow up as a person, certifications go more into depth and often provide practical examples of how to use the gained knowledge in real life in my opinion.

[@abyssstrider2547]

I was also thinking of getting an IT certificate myself.

[@henrykwieniawski7233]

@@abyssstrider2547 Do it! I'm currently studying for the MD100/101 and it's not too bad.

[@abyssstrider2547]

@@henrykwieniawski7233 Neat, but im currently studying German so probably after that.

[@srpenguinbr]

Uni gives me the feeling that I'm working hard but not learning that much. Some disciplines are just grind and others are a piece of cake (especially the programming classes). I'm taking electrical engineering in a free public uni.

[@vigvaryb]

Kinda depends where you live, most places in the Uk do have a degree listed as required, but at the same time you enter the shitty no experience loop, which may be solvable by having a cert to your name

[@TheTundraTerror]

Hell, some jobs will even pay you to get your certification.

[@gokurocks9]

Or FOR your certification

[@LokitoGFX]

yeah, pretty common on serviceNOW for example!

[@hadeseye2297]

No degree, no certs. Yet IT professional.

[@coffeehousephilosopher7936]

@@hadeseye2297 if that's your case please share more of your story. There's a lot of people who have the hands on experience without the I.T certs that are typically pushed.

[@theRPGmaster]

@@hadeseye2297 Yes, please share more, I'm personally interested and I think it could be helpful to many others.

[@seraphinw1]

I'm two years into working IT from the cert method and I'm already making more than the average college graduate. I can't believe this country cons kids into thinking getting in debt is the only path forward in life

[@dudecool7915]

What specific field and certs did you pick if you don't mind me asking?

[@v01d_r34l1ty]

"I can't believe this country cons kids into thinking getting in debt is the only path forward in life" The US military recruiters have entered the chat.

[@seraphinw1]

@@dudecool7915 A+ and Security + from CompTIA

[@jadedplover1851]

Lol imagine living somewhere where you have to pay for college.

[@Absvrd666]

What job?

[@CubensisEnjoyer]

I have really bad ADHD and no matter how hard I try I can't hold myself accountable to learn things on my own, which sucks because I want to take the certs route but college is the only thing that will keep pushing me to learn while I'm not already in the field. It seems like a lot of certs are "read the book, study it hard, and take the exam" but it feels near impossible for me. It sucks because I'm an excellent employee and retain everything I learn in a job setting, but don't know how to land that first job in the field with where I'm at. But as I learn more through college I think it's giving me more drive and attention to finally tackle some certs. Mental Outlaw delivers yet again btw

[@awesomeferret]

This is the exact situation with me. I know that paying for the college will motivate me to actually get stuff done, and I'm likely to befriend people who will go on to be higher ups thus giving me a better chance at a management position someday. College still does have a purpose for many people.

[@WeatherWX]

Kinda the same problem, im not diagnosed but i guess im just lazy, i found projects like homelabbing would motivate to do more and a lot more than just cyber and explore networking for instance.

[@fireandworms]

You just need to learn via personal projects, assuming you're trying to learn some form of software. What are you trying to study?

[@CubensisEnjoyer]

@@fireandworms my end goal is Certified Ethical Hacking but I’m hoping to find a job that’ll expose me to different kinds of work. I recently started on TryHackMe and I’m definitely learning but still a long way to go before I can leverage that into a job.

[@fireandworms]

@@CubensisEnjoyer You should make a Github and make a repository and post the answers to test questions in that repository, along with comments about what you learned with each exercise.

[@giacomoflisi]

Man, i jumped on the cyber sec train at the beginning of this year while still studying for my Computer science degree, and it's been overwhelming to say the least but i love it. I finally found an IT subdomain that i like and i plan on getting certs when i finish

[@edwardwhite8253]

Im also in a similar state, is there any resources that help you that you can share? Im mainly doing overthewire challenges and doing basic rooms in tryhackme if im not overwhelmed by university work.

[@dasdasdadadadad8915]

Lol same school don't teach shit tbh.

[@MrMediator24]

Sorta similar story with how I ended up as OS level programmer. Company came to our uni, asked for workers with a bit of hesitation I agreed and so after quite like it

[@WeatherWX]

So im at the tail end of my degree and got lucky about cyber stuff here is some of my advice: Find a student org that does Cyber stuff, whether it be CTFs, Reverse Engineering, etc... If you're still in school look at competitions like Collegiate Cyber Defense Competition, Collegiate Pentreation Testing Competition, or DOE CyberForce. HackTheBox and CTFTime are good resources also. I've done CCDC, some CTFs and some HTBs. So feel free to ask me or others.

[@giacomoflisi]

@@edwardwhite8253 I'm still figuring things out but I think THM is super valuable even with the free plan, other than that I lurk around the InfoSec community on YT twitter and Discord, it helps to connect with others and everyone is very friendly. There are also discords to specifically prepare for a cert, you can study together and stuff. Since it is such a big topic you'll have to figure out what you like the most, reading blogs also helped me.

[@tonymonktano4313]

In the US, debt, especially student loan debt, is not passed down to your children if you pass, lol. It can be held against the deceased's estate, but it wouldn't be transferred to next of kin unless they own the debt as well.

[@SamWhitlock]

This is good to point out, as I have a feeling that predatory debt collectors will try to come after next of kin saying "You owe us for your parent's college debt!", beyond what the estate is able to provide.

[@sunnohh]

Where did you make this up?

[@sirjohn6299]

I genuinely appreciate the advice man. From someone trying to break into the field this is golden advice.

[@paprika5487]

Even to this day, I still do not regret going to college; I wouldn't trade the experiences I had there. Managed to pay off college debt in less than two years. However, I still agree that college is a major scam and certs are the way to go. Being a penetration tester these days, that definitely seems like the area to go. Definitely worth your time to build your skills than to get a piece of paper.

[@AlwynMusic]

thats pretty cool! for the college you went too, did it have pentesting class because i have never heard of that

[@paprika5487]

@@AlwynMusic Unfortunately it did not. My university offered two security classes and that was it. Actually the tools and techniques I use on the job have nothing to do with anything I learned in college funny enough :)

[@AlwynMusic]

@@paprika5487 good to know, i am learning pentesting right now idk if ill go to collage it seems like a waste of money for what i want to do

[@paprika5487]

@@AlwynMusic At this stage in the game, it really seems like it is...I don't think companies even care anymore about degrees; from what I understand, they care more about certs. At least my company feels that way. Best wishes! Be good with your money!

[@AlwynMusic]

@@paprika5487 thank you! you too!

[@ricardogonzalezcastillo6932]

I think this path works perfectly if you want to continue to work in the country you're currently located or if you're a US citizen. Otherwise, even if it ends up being more expensive or consuming more of your time, college is the only option of third-world countries, because otherwise, immigration to find jobs in other better paying countries will be almost impossible.

[@multirampage1]

Are you talking about the countries not allowing you to enter their territory without a degree? or companies refusing to hire a person from a third world country unless that person has a degree?

[@ricardogonzalezcastillo6932]

@@multirampage1 Countries not allowing you to enter their territory without a degree. This is specially the case with the US and I believe that it's the same with Canada.Though, not sure

[@multirampage1]

@@ricardogonzalezcastillo6932 That sucks, thank god I have European citizenship, although I would prefer to emigrate to the US than to Europe.

[@idrathernot_2]

Japan does this for the most part, besides a tiny number of farm workers from the Philippines or something. That paper is a ticket out of your country, no matter which direction your going. It's crap but thems the rules, take it up with immigration. Worst case you get a goofy degree and the certifications on the side.

[@RyuKimGaming]

@@ricardogonzalezcastillo6932 Canada required you to have some sort of degree or professional experience based on the most demanded jobs over there. The requirements is kinda nuts to be honest. Mostly people(from South America) prefer (if they have money) is literally study again or find some type of master degree or any advance degree. After that you can immigrate in Canada is possible... is way more expensive, people prefer to go the US because is a cheaper option

[@coldbrew6104]

I'm currently 22 years old and I've been the Network & Systems Administrator for a local healthcare agency since 2019. I never went to college, I went to a vocational tech school during my last 3 years of high school and got 3 certifications (PC Pro, Network Pro, and Security Pro). It's possible, you just have to work hard and make a name for yourself! :)

[@suspiciousstew1169]

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[@suspiciousstew1169]

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[@suspiciousstew1169]

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[@suspiciousstew1169]

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[@suspiciousstew1169]

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[@ajax321]

I believe it depends on a case by case basis, not everyone should/needs to go to college. However those who actually enjoy academic studies (the few of you out there), more power to you. Another thing is the college isn't just about studying, it's also about networking, meeting friends, creating projects, etc. It's really what you make of it.

[@YosukesPersona]

My ACT score luckily allowed me to go to college out of state free of charge, and I'm happy to have the opportunity. Hoping to use certification on top of my MIS degree to work as a sysadmin in the future. Thanks for the great content as always.

[@hyphen8d725]

@@shaneasby501 Are you sure? No scholarships with a near perfect act? Theres gotta be something. Try a FAFSA if you are a citizen

[@liquidatedrice5274]

Doing my CompTIA A+ exam tomorrow, wish me luck

[@RamsteinPoplaski]

Good luck

[@MechanicalMooCow]

Good luck mate, hope you pass with flying colours

[@papajohnscookie]

good luck m8

[@crlfff]

good luck let us know how it goes

[@hoshiya4522]

Good Luck m8

[@Gavinnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

I got a masters and learned way way more doing competitive programming + certs than I did in school. College is still good for networking and status though, but not for skills.

[@Jiftoo]

I'm studying mostly not to get conscripted, as studying officially frees you from it. However, university also turned out to be ludicrously fun, never would've thought I liked maths this much! I don't excel there, but learning how science works has helped me get a fresh view on programming and the nature of computer science.

[@gumonthepavement]

This video feels like an actually useful lifehack. God bless you Kenny!

[@LaPage]

I worked at a major University earning 6 figures- more than most Post-Grad professors- before I left to earn more as a tech consultant. No degree. I did take advantage of tuition remission to get a degree for 'free', but it wasn't needed. My IT Certs have been my key to high paying jobs. Save your money.

[@theodenking169]

Degrees are still worthwhile for a good price. At a good school, an education in engineering or science can be the basis for a great career with long lasting impact and staying power that certs can't match. Just don't pay too much for it.

[@justethical280]

Certs are only a small time worthfull. Maybe 1 to 2 years. Your degree will always mean something, even if it is outdated..... And that is fair i guess, because getting a degree is much harder then getting a IT cert......

[@Cookedfrfrfr]

@@justethical280 not harder, but more expensive.

[@noahvogt1983]

@@Cookedfrfrfr ~700 $ per semester isn't even that much. If your parents don't have the money, go work for 2-3 months at MacDonalds and you got the money.

[@Cookedfrfrfr]

@@noahvogt1983 where did you get that price? Isn't it like $7k per semester or more?

[@noahvogt1983]

@@Cookedfrfrfr ethz.ch/de/studium/finanzielles/gebuehren.html That's the one I am considering studying CS. It's ranked place 10 on topuniversities.com so it's not like just a random "cheap" university.

[@connormurphy5503]

My only regret in life is getting a bachelors in management. I’m a contractor by day, and I always knew that’s what I wanted to do, but I learned about 5 years too late that the state school offered an associates program in my field of contracting. Instead I took a ton of useless classes aimed at STEM startups and cfa level one prep. I’m sure they were excellent for people in those industries but learning quickbooks and how to write project proposals and change orders would have been much more relevant, and cheaper.

[@robertm7704]

Greetings from Poland

[@purplep3466]

and a szyszka, don't forget about a szyszka!

[@KSPAtlas]

@@purplep3466 *laughs in polish having no "a" or "the"

[@elpersonpl576]

Poland gang

[@Napert]

Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz kłania się nisko

[@MrMediator24]

Awkward cheers from Russia

[@phithegamer5787]

Thanks for showing us this. Pretty neat alternative.

[@crepituss9381]

DoSing people's modems off of IRC with death pings... You make me feel old *nostalgic tear*.

[@Kempachii.uzumaki]

Shoutout to this guy! Always putting out content that helps

[@-----------------------------]

Military paid for my Sec+. Military is also paying for my college and housing so long as I stay a full time student. My education is free but now I want to see how much more I can get for free whether it's training or certs.

[@alexrivera8239]

I had this exact conversation with my gf this morning. Preach 🙌

[@AED_001]

thank you for making this for video for those wishing to get into the IT field! this is a really great video with info for those graduating from schooling.

[@eternalblue4660]

As someone who is studying for the CCNA and CCNP it's nice to see a video like this. I have been telling this to people for a while because when I say I study I.T to people they ask me what University I attend. It's just not necessary for some people.

[@jamesthumm3823]

As someone who didn't want to go to college initially, it's refreshing to see someone post something like this, Thankfully, I was fortunate enough to have my college paid for (even though I went to a low tier state school that most have likely not heard of) I've always thought certs were more cost effective. Especially if you're going for IT, it's hard to learn everything you need in a classroom setting. Your professors might be able to throw together some cool and useful labs, but most people will bs their way through them, Which is fine, you don't really learn what's important until you see it in production, IT should be a trade school thing imo. It's hard to understand what's important in a classroom, but a college experience is great. If you want that for yourself, and you can afford it, do it. It's loads of fun and if you make the most of it you'll meet lots of people. If you want to fast track life in IT, go for certs. You'll probably end up doing them either way, but it makes for a great talking point and resume builder when going for interviews. My point is, you can't go wrong either way, so long as you make the most of it. I was able to land a job at the network dept for my school as a student tech, and being able to work with enterprise grade equipment has taught me more than any of my classes. It's the only reason I didn't transfer schools, so don't watch this video and decide to not go to school, watch this video and decide whether or not you want a college experience. Some people might not care at all and decide to just roll with certs, that's totally smart and economical. If you want a college experience, go for it. It's not a bad plan either, degrees are a plus on a resume, unfortunately a necessity in some cases. Just don't think this dude is right or wrong in the points he makes, it really all comes down to what you want. You'll be fine no matter what path you choose.

[@rufuspub]

My issue with college classes are that they are spread out over 14-16 weeks per class. Often with the first month or so being baby crap. I did my MCSE NT 4.0 at my University in their side extension department. So each class was straight up 1-2 weeks and one class at a time, 8 hours a day. So the whole cert could be learned within a month or two. the programming arm of MCSE was a little longer naturally, but still like 2-3 months. Granted that was $14K, but that is what got me a career in IT, not a degree.

[@rando5673]

This applies even more directly to health jobs. Medical lab tech, x-ray operator, and ultrasound all pay as much or more than nursing with a 2 year program. They also pay as much or more without requiring nearly as much shift work and you rack up only half the debt. Many even have job placement programs

[@DevDungeon]

These days, companies likes IBM and Microsoft are offering courses specific to a job role, and then hiring people straight out of that course. It's a really interesting model. Basically, you're taking the course and getting a cert, but at the same time it can act like your job interview and internship that demonstrates to the company you can accomplish the job. In the security world, some certifications are worthless and some are golden tickets. The OSCP (glad you mentioned it!) is a cert that I would value higher than a master's degree from a university. I have taken the OSCP and it was really awesome. I learned so much, did all the labs, and rooted about 5 boxes. Although I didn't actually take and pass the final exam (penetration testing is not my primary skill anyway) it is an excellent course. It's much more reasonably priced than a SANS course too.

[@Trupen]

Love your videos

[@mr.demiurge5700]

On the CompTIA track, I have the A+, Network+, Security+, and CySA+. I also have the CCENT and CCNA R&S, the previous version obtained a few months before it was retired. I intend to nab the PenTest+ in a year two, as a way of automatically refreshing all my previous CompTIA certs. I'm happy I have them, but at the end of the day I mainly value for them for their ability to get me in the door for an interview. The ability to memorize facts for a multiple choice test doesn't automatically translate to the ability to do the job, and I've been embarrassed at how much of the stuff I studied for CCNA has started slipping away from lack of use. So at the moment I'm thinking less in terms of certs and more in terms of skills. For example, I'm technically targeting the OSCP as my next cert, but right now that's mostly as a way to focus myself while getting more proficient at Python, the Linux command line, Bash scripting, nmap, and other such skills I'm informed will come in very handy once I actually pay money for an attempt at the cert.

[@jdhthegr8]

Coming on 3 years in the networking industry now, and this video reminds me that I never did finish that A.S in networking from my local trade school; the limited timeslots for the last 2 CCNP classes I had to finish suddenly got overruled by my first salaried job! In my case, simply having the CCNA was good enough for entry-level. And with the experience I have now, it wouldn't be worth it to "go back and finish" for that degree when I could skip the middleman and get the CCNP itself. I did benefit from the classroom environment that school gave me, and I'm sure certain others might be able to as well. But at the end of the day, the certs were what made the gig.

[@cobbcoding]

watching this on LBRY then watching it again on KZbin like a chad

[@godfather7339]

Why watch it again on KZbin?

[@solonyetski]

@@godfather7339 coz he's a Chad 🇹🇩

[@datb0174]

Literally just finished High School today. I previously applied to colleges on a whim. I got in but I'm heavily reconsidering. Thanks for the information!

[@MentalOutlaw]

Best of luck! If you aren't paying out of pocket for college it might be worth you going, you can always get certs in addition to college.

[@Ownxer]

Ok

[@HowToLinux]

Your the best, keep on bringing that informative content!

[@YouKnowMeDuh]

I was sad in elementary school, depressed and miserable in middle school, and somewhat well-off in high school. But college... My 5 years (going on 6) of college is the most miserable experience. It's like I'm going to school just to be told that I'm really not that smart, especially since I went into engineering. Shit's hard. Endless struggle. I can likely pay every penny of loans I took out by just barely using half my savings as soon as I graduate, so debt is not an issue. The issue is working to get a paper that personally is going to feel quite empty, considering much of what I learned I had to learn on my own, not because the college I'm going to has professors that focused on helping me become a better engineer. The worst part about it is that I really only went into this field of study because I was pressured to get a degree that would be more likely to make me tons of money. Since I was a kid I wanted to work in IT and even got that chance for almost 4 years during college. It was during that time that I learned about system administration. IT on steroids, very interesting. Probably what I'll end up doing. If I didn't take the IT job that I did, then I would truly only know a little about a lot with my degree.

[@chunkyg6715]

A university degree shows one has had a solid education in a particular field whereas a certification shows one has been trained to use a particular technology or set of technologies. They’re definitely not interchangeable or equivalent and given technology evolves at a rapid pace means it’s useful to have a solid educational foundation to build on. The underlying concepts of how a technology works rarely changes, whereas it’s the implementation that changes. Only knowing how to use a particular technology will leave you with a skillset that will inevitably become obsolete hence the need to constantly upgrade certifications. It also depends on which area of tech one works in (or wants to work in) but if it’s something requiring a high level of technical knowledge and skill then a certification only probably won’t cut it and should at most only compliment a degree. People that want to take the quicker, easier and/or cheaper route may disagree or may have different views. Just ask yourself one question, can you trust someone without a good understanding of algorithms and code to understand what role bugs in code play in exploiting a system?

[@joshwizardguy7662]

Last time I checked, learning about memory, pointers, algorithms, byte sizes, RAM, and data structures by yourself isn't hard. College provides no tangible education aside from teaching you the basics and then sending you off to study on your own using the same materials that self taught people used the first time they started learning. It's better to start on your own than to pay thousands of dollars to have some person explain the basics of a topic and then study it by yourself afterwards.

[@chunkyg6715]

@@joshwizardguy7662 Even if one had all the resources, discipline and structure to learn everything they would learn at university they wouldn’t have the degree at the end to show for it. Sure all the docs are available online for everyone to use for pretty much every programming language but one needs a good understanding of the language and concepts before they can use the docs effectively. You also seem to focus on C, the most important language one should learn but there are other procedural, object oriented and functional languages one should also know. For instance good C code is rarely good C++ but some people seem to think it’s just C with classes and therefore still using malloc and free instead of using STL correctly. Programming without the right skill in algorithms, design patterns and security is the reason why we have inefficient, unmaintainable and buggy/exploitable software. Such software problems can also be because deadlines are set by people who don’t understand programming, but a website that got hacked because the developer didn’t understand SQL injection, XSS or unix file permissions isn’t a valid excuse. Not saying a CS degree is the only way to acquire these skills but regardless it takes years of learning and practice, and in many cases the degree is still a requirement to get a well paid job. But you still need to keep learning stay relevant.

[@joshwizardguy7662]

@@chunkyg6715 My point is that the degree itself holds no tangible value outside of a perceived piece of evidence that you might know something as opposed to making a portfolio that shows that you know something.

[@chunkyg6715]

@@joshwizardguy7662 Fair enough. If one can demonstrate their skill through their involvement in open source software or portfolio of work such as websites they’ve produced then they may not need a degree to have a successful career. Years of relevant work experience will usually also bypass the need for a degree. And I mean a CS/SE/IT/CE/EE bachelors and/or masters degree from a reputable university. A lot of employers make a relevant degree a hard requirement, and unless it’s a graduate role then one also needs a certain amount of relevant work experience to be even considered. Degree or no degree, what’s important is that one enjoys what they do so they can progress in their field including continued learning. If one can’t work at a computer for hours at a time or hates coding then they’ve probably chosen the wrong line of work regardless of what they studied.

[@stevem3432]

I'm getting my first CompTIA certs this summer and aspire to eventually get a RHEL cert. Thanks for the video.

[@PaintballBoomer]

You're reading my mind, dude. Currently pursuing a couple CompTIA certs to change careers.

[@ddicas]

Maaannn! That's an AWESOME content! I really wanna someday create any quality content (like your videos) with you :D PS: Greetings from Brazil

[@josha3212]

Personally I'm going to college for electrical engineering and completing certs on the side to get an relatively well paying IT job to help pay my way through, seems like the comfy route so far

[@sheelotastic]

I just got a Masters in Cybersec and you’re right. A lot of our content was covered in certs and Our professors also recommended we just get certs lol

[@jtbebop497]

lol I got a ad for a local college after clicking on this vid

[@MentalOutlaw]

Gotta bring more people into their money farm.

[@TheMinecraftACMan]

@@MentalOutlaw To be fair, community colleges aren't quite as bad as the 4-years. They tend to offer many of the certification programs you were talking about.

[@chillsgaming1900]

@@TheMinecraftACMan When I was in high school, the counselors made community college look like the devil and made 4 years look like the only way to live in this world.

[@rufuspub]

@@chillsgaming1900 That is were dropouts and druggies go, you are not a loser like them are you anon? Just all a sales pipeline.

[@squib308]

Your 40 year old people who grew up with modems, wardialing, phreaking, cracking unix passwords, PPP/SLIP, linux when it was on floppies - unless they've been stuck doing one thing so far professionally are going to have a much broader and capable knowledge of how things generally generally work, and will find the right people to do the entry level jobs. If you're going to run a team for a project, or a contract, or internal development, you gotta know more than a cert will give you. most of all, you have to learn to be a good communicator. And learn! Few jobs are straight forward 100% going to be matched by your learning and past experiences.

[@PhiveIncognito]

Fresh out of university with a MSc i was surprised and disillusioned at how many of my seasoned colleagues in ERP consulting (managers, senior managers and partners) had no formal education. Vast majority were self-taught with certifications at the most. The first thing my employer did was sent me get freaking certified lmao!!! Many of my younger colleagues with degrees did not even study anything IT related or even STEM. But almost by accident found themselves coding software or doing cyber security or architecting IT. I am now pursuing cyber security, chasing certs and doing hands-on projects just to get a foot in the door, and have learned more in 6 months than i did in the 5 years of university.

[@hri7566]

this is REALLY important to take into consideration right now, i'm 17, about to be fresh out of high school, and about to take 2 years of computer science, even though i already have most training necessary for working on a big project due to my massive exposure to the internet. i really like devops so far with the cheap (almost free) tools i have (atlassian jira, github/gitlab, and a raspberry pi) and i'm a natural with web development but i'd really like to get farther into stuff like infrastructure and, of course, video games, and not unity stuff, like C++-DIY-cross-platform-win32-API-but-also-linux-compatible style work i'm also already trained in digital electronics because of a single course in high school, and i'm already helping my IT teacher build a crane machine

[@csabameszaros8507]

I'm sure you're really good at all the stuff you mentioned, but there's something that university taught me for sure. It's really easy to overestimate your knowledge, especially in the beginning. For example the first couple of months learning about algorithms or taking a programming course in high school will for sure get your feet wet, especially if it's something you also do in your freetime a lot, but it's still very far from using the technology in a real work environment. I'm not writing this to judge you, hell when I was 17 I was barely learning basic python. I'm happy you're at this level already and wanna learn more, but always take a second and a step back to see where you are in the big picture... and also how big that picture actually is.

[@elosant2061]

If you're doing an actual computer science degree you'll realise that most of what you do is more related to applied mathematics than it is programming. I'm also 17 and have some proficiency in C++ and stuff but I'm nowhere near as experienced in (particularly theoretical) computer science stuff like complexity analysis, theory of computation, etc. Which is why I'm gonna start a Mathematics degree instead next year and maybe do more comp sci related courses or move onto computer science after getting my degree if math doesn't work out. These practical skills are invaluable, sure, but so is the ability to problem solve in a rigorous manner.

[@csabameszaros8507]

@@elosant2061 You’re absolutely right about this. I’m in my third year and we had everything from number theory, almost all branches of analysis, algorithm theory to even physics. The first year was basically math and c/c++. I’m not from the US but I’m quite sure you’ll get programming experience in a math degree at most places. The only thing you’ll probably miss out on is low level electrical engineering stuff.

[@mskiptr]

Louis Rossmann reminds: CompTIA does some anti-repair stuff

[@FiredAndIced]

Need links for further reading.

[@BichaelStevens]

Source

[@mskiptr]

/Y9JKRItHDME Not gonna post the whole KZbin link, because it would be silently removed.

[@Cookedfrfrfr]

@@mskiptr name then?

[@mskiptr]

@@Cookedfrfrfr Well, I didn't post the _whole_ link, but just the relevant part instead. You can prepend https;||youtu•be to it and it should work. Or just put it in the search box. The title is along the lines of: CompTIA lobbies against right to repair

[@Vargas3499]

I went the cisco route with my certs getting my CCNA out of highschool was able to land a NOC job making really good money. Meanwhile my friends racking up student debt are working retail and jobs they hate getting paid pennies :(

[@bengregory1249]

I went to a community college so my tuition wasn't that bad but I still regret going. My 2-year degree was probably similar to an a+, security+, Linux+, and CCNA. Except the information was more out of date, and probably only the 4.0 students would be able to pass the actual cert exams. That's not the reason I'm salty about my degree, it's that I couldn't even land my first help desk job until I went and got my a+ anyways. And for getting past the HR filter, they usually want a bachelors.

[@ItsOnlyLogixal]

Paid £12 x2 for comptia networking and security+ online courses (not even official), walked into a 25k a year job with full benefits. I just put the online course name above the certs, no one asked. I know of some people who have lied in their CV with no quals and just said they had certs and got the job. Most of getting a job now is passing the personality tests in the interviews. After you've been with a good company for more than 6 months you're more likely to get the job than someone fresh out of university with a degree. Formal education is a mugs game. Much love to you Outlaw.

[@nabeelkhan4770]

Great video totally agreed and I honestly soon I study for a good cert.

[@awesomeferret]

A full four year education costs 17,000 dollars in my state. That's less than most people in my area spend on a car. College is only unaffordable if you rule out community colleges, and the networking is probably worth it for many people, especially if you plan on starting your own company or getting into a management position. You yourself even recently pointed this out in a way recently. I also question the idea that one can get hired easily with just a certification. Here in Washington State, that is certainly the exception, not the norm. Most HR departments will completely ignore peu useless you have a CS degree and 2-5 years of experience. It's one of those catch 22s where you need experience to get the job but you can't get your foot in the industry because you have no experience.

[@sali-ali]

I am coding and repairing PC's since 10 years old (i am 30 currently) my major was Business Managment but I'm working as a full stack web developer since I'm 18. Don't bother getting IT diploma, but still I recommend to get something, whatever is easier for you since it still gives you some advantages. For example in my case I become manager. For IT you don't even need certs, you need projects. If you're a java developer create few apps, add to your CV and you're done. Also I'll recommend you to become full stack, because if you can only front end or back end good luck to you. If you won't work for a huge enterprise like Microsoft, everyone looks for full stack and you won't work for microsoft without any other experience so full stack is the way to go. What I'll suggest you is that do whatever you love, if you're in university age already and you didn't made a single software program yet, forget about it. I'm sure you're already good at something, some people like to travel, some like to be in front of camera, some like to build things etc. look what you're doing already and start doing it professionally.

[@CT-zq3kz]

I have my associates in Networking, my Net+, and am currently studying to get my Sec+ and CCNA. I think if you can, get both.

[@MechanicalMooCow]

How have those certs served you?

[@internallyinteral]

Okay but did you get a job

[@CT-zq3kz]

Yes

[@CT-zq3kz]

Work in help desk with a company of over 3k employees. Entry level position, but lots of room to join a different department (networking, programming, systems, etc). Got other offers as well. Certs are great and mean a ton, but they don't diminish the magnitude of any kind of degree (in my opinion. I am thankful I was able to learn about certs and get a college degree on top of it)

[@internallyinteral]

The ends justify the means good for you!!

[@TradieTrev]

Had my IT cert given to me when I was at highschool. Turns out the computer shop I worked at had to close down, so I went electrical. People need power, only took 4 years for that cert in Australia lol. Licenced trades they make you run through hoops, but here in my country commitment seems more viable than what you know for a job title.

[@Adam-vt8ej]

Oh my God! Thank you Mental Outlaw! :)

[@breadmoth6443]

The problem with the degrees, is that they make you take courses that have nothing to do with your major. Also, now you have crap degrees that have the word "studies" in them, and then those who majored in said degrees, can't get a real job and want everyone else to pay for their mistake.

[@ishdx9374]

Super mario bros studies

[@TheTundraTerror]

@@ishdx9374 Movieblobs course

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

They are just garbage in general. Moron factories, like all schools (and the stupider degrees are actual pyramid schemes). It's what happens when you take something for the elite and dumb it down and let all the idiots in.

[@user-lt2rw5nr9s]

@@ishdx9374 Veggietale Studies

[@chillsgaming1900]

@@mesham4623 I was telling my dad that general ed is pointless and this is what he told me. I went through 12 years of school for that

[@realcartoongirl]

cant have a job or go to college/university if you have anxiety

[@mrhidetf2]

Slight correction on the Pen-200 / OSCP cert. The writeup on the exam machines are mandatory. You could get all the flags and still fail the exam if your report on the machines arent good enough. (You can hand in a lab report, which contains all the exercises and at least 10 lab machines and how u got root on them, but that will give u 5 points max). So the exam are 5 machines, 2x 25points, 2 x 20 points and 1x 10 points + 5 points for a lab report. You need atleast 70 points to pass.

[@shredwerd009]

Im a sysadmin with no college. Only cert I have is azure fundamentals (which is really easy to get and free vouchers come up often at Microsoft virtual training days. I did not have this prior to my sysadmin position btw). It is possible people.

[@lcky2993]

Wow, I didn't know that student debt for some reason affects the family if the student dies. That's unbelievable in today's age. I'm dumbfounded by this new info. My country has some bad colleges, but at least college education is free, but paying that much and it falling into your family, I couldn't imagine having to endure the pressure of this huge debt that will affect my family directly if anything happens. I wish the best for you people that have to endure something like that.

[@PhilfreezeCH]

While I do think there is some actual value behind formal education (if the price in the US is worth it I cannot say but in Europe it most certainly is) which does not only come from the knowledge itself but rather also through secondary things like proving you can learn at a certain speed and have a certain level of stress resistance, I also think certification like you mentioned are extremely beneficial. In electronics manufacturing and testing for example you can get things like a JEDEC quality-control certification which takes maybe a week or two and some money to get but it is extremely valuable to companies as they have to conform to certain standards to sell their products in certain markets (and you learn those standards). I would probably focus on things like these second (things the company absolutely needs due to some regulations) after learning the fundamentals of the profession. Then as a third thing I would try to get into some official courses for industry software (like CAD software and such). At the end of the course you usually also get a paper saying you visited it and this can also be very valuable for a company as it can significantly reduce the time they need to train you. You can even consider taking some organisation/manager courses for a specific standard organisation (like for example DIN/ISO approved document organisation and data security courses) as this is again something the company is going to need anyway.

[@napalm1101]

> "secondary things like proving you can learn at a certain speed and have a certain level of stress resistance" That sounds like some kind of bugman rationalization that only serves to enrich corporates and governments at your expense.

[@alexhofer7651]

This is great to see, I just got a ms-900

[@euric869]

This is me I graduated with a bachelor's in IT last November and haven't been able to land a job yet they haven't even called me to do a interview it's miserable.

[@KeepItTechie]

Excellent video!! 🎓🎓 Even though I have a degree, I always recommend certs now a days! Things were different when I started.

[@peptobepto]

my high school offers a comptia course actually. im going to learn computer repair and then over the summer im going to save up for a pentesting cert!

[@dallasupton]

Got my Sec+ over a year ago, been applying to tons of help desk jobs with maybe 1 interview

[@dallasupton]

Still no job

[@rars0n]

A lot of CompTIA stuff is just as much, if not MORE of a scam, than college is. Plus, while certs look good on a resume, most real businesses still want you to have a degree, and a lot jobs even want years of experience. What is really needed is not certs or degrees, but people competent at interviewing and hiring the right people. The problem is that anyone in that position is usually pretty clueless about IT and therefore unqualified to make the hiring decision.

[@gordonmaxwell3998]

I think electrical and computer engineering with specialties in cyber security and machine learning is still worth it. Saying that I'm currently pursuing my ccna, then my oscp or oswe. Also I do C++ and Rust work on the side.

[@samson9428]

I was in college for network security, but I never learned much of anything from there. About the time I started college, I started to realize that college was a scam. I dropped out, got a job in construction, which lead to mining, and now I make a good living operating heavy equipment. I'd like to work in IT, but I don't think there are really any paths to go down where I won't be taking a pay cut until I have substantial experience.

[@blendingsentinel4797]

Glad that at 17 I am in a trade school. Testout saves the day. Edit: I am 18 now and almost have Testout PC Pro, after that I am going for Linux Pro!

[@BitcoinJake09]

Collage is a scam, thats something I realized also in 2008/2009, started working restaurants after high school, now I manage a dog kennel, just passed a Pro dog training course for a certificate :p way cheaper than collage, I currently make $25/hour and get to do my own computer/code stuff on the side :D

[@kt11540]

CompTIA is getting ready to come out with a data analyst certification and they are letting people get previews of it

[@davidlr97]

I sometimes forget how expensive college is in the US. I'm taking a Masters of Information Technology in Australia and the whole course only costs about $16,000AUD for Australian citizens

[@eternalblue4660]

Was talking I.T to a friend of mine at a bar maybe 2 years ago and the security guard overheard our conversation and said he was struggling to find a job in the field despite having his Masters in I.T, so he took up a job as security for the place. The way he made it sound is that he was working security for atleast a year. This was in Brisbane to be specific. So hopefully for you it is a different story, goodluck.

[@Jango1989]

In which mental outlaw reveals he is a pentester. +1 to OSCP > degree And that's spoken as someone with several highly relevant degrees and no OSCP. If you want a job as a pentester, OSCP will get you an interview most definitely. Just make sure you do it yourself and don't rely on your friends to carry you through the exam. It's really obvious when people have done that.

[@bryteklabs1855]

Bruh you're gonna hit 100k real soon here

[@Allixar]

My college is all paid for. Hence, it's free for me. I could start working to gain experience and then study for certifications, but college is a viable choice as I am fresh out of high school.

[@HitmanTheodore]

Currently studying for the CCNA

[@ShreksSpliff]

No degrees, 3 years into learning stuff via open source and I'm about to get paid over 90k AUD to build websites with react and javascript. This is the no CERT path. I assume certs take that time down to like 6 months!

[@Grayest_Fox]

Way too much tomfoolery

[@YahBoiiJose]

I’m taking my CompTIA A+ Exam this week. Lol and on my Bday of all days. Pretty cool flex if I get my certification at 17 years old.

[@Blorp_]

My biggest reason before watching the video. Every single time I've asked for advice about careers from professors or industry professionals, they always tell me to get certs as soon as I can

[@dovecat]

I didn't go to school to learn anything, I went to school to have more time to fuck around and do what I wanted. Worked part time and made connections. Learned much more than was taught by working on passion projects, but if I didn't have the free time I wouldn't have gotten to develop those skills and knowledge. Saved some money while having no pressure for four years. To me, this was worth the 15k it cost me.

[@Cneq]

Both mindsets are wrong, you need BOTH. Two guys get shortlisted, both have experience, both have certs but one has a degree. Who will get hired? The guy with the degree. It's the ultimate equalizer and while getting certs only is fine the actual best is obviously to have all three, experience, certs and a degree. Luckily in some countries [Such as Australia] you can get a degree at any of the best Universities and pay like $23k AUD total which is like 17k-18k USD.

[@asamanthinketh5944]

Yes lmao but the job would be a 20K job and there is literally no unemployment in IT for those who are willing to work tbh

[@Cneq]

@@asamanthinketh5944 ???? lmao your reply isn't even related to my comment. If two people apply to ANY job with equal experience and certs and one happens to have a degree the guy with the degree will get the job, it's as simple as that. It makes zero sense not to get a degree when it's obviously a major benefit

[@asamanthinketh5944]

@@Cneq brethren do you even logic I agree with you degree that in starting degree will be beneficial but after 3 yrs of experience degrees are googly dooks experience counts And if that cert person hae mote experience then he will be hired

[@DoMyHomework_]

I'm literally just about to do a Cybersecurity course that costs me $4500 that includes CompTIA A+, Network+, Security+, and other smaller things. It's all online and I don't have to sit thru classes of "wypipo bad".

[@abidsyed1646]

What is this course called?

[@grigorirasputin4871]

Oh please, show me any university, where getting a CS degree entails taking courses about identity politics, or some bullshit.

[@DoMyHomework_]

@@grigorirasputin4871 University of Queensland, ANU, any uni in Victoria for example. All in one way or another has mandatory woke classes attached to it.

[@grigorirasputin4871]

@@DoMyHomework_ which classes are you referring to?

[@veto_5762]

The only reason I'm in college right now is because after quarantine i barely left my home to do anything and also since im lazy i need something to do for make wake up early and start doing things, of course that since in my country education is not stupidly expensive like in USA. I literaly just do a single payment and that's it and hey, maybe its not super quality education but at least i can see stuff about a topic i personally like to keep my mind busy and learn stuff that actually would help me at the same time in my free time, at least thats for me as a person that is more passionate to tech rather than wanting to get a job as fast as possible (right now)

[@ung-k4c]

AWS certs are also quite excellent. A lot of CS grads now are doing it, there is the consequence of learning skills tied to a platform/walled garden but so many companies are now building on top of AWS or Azure for how they deploy their product.

[@Basuko_Smoker]

I Also Heard that and can mostly agree! Havent stsrted a course from AWS but when i was trying to apply for an IT job, many ifnot a Big majority valued AWS knowledge very highly

[@rufuspub]

AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle Cloud are to some degree the same. If you have experience with one, picking up the others is easier. My group looks for people with AWS and Linux experience above anything else. Everything else can be learned on the fly.

[@Retrocaus]

@@Basuko_Smoker it's funny because aws is overpriced and overengineered, no wonder most techstartups don't make it

[@drstewart]

If an IT job requires a degree (and most do), certs don't means a thing if there's no degree. This is highly dependent on your job market also. The issue really isn't certs versus degrees, it's unrealistic job requirements (and the loss of anything "entry level") versus reality. Also, if an employer wants a degree in a given area (say networking or IT security) you can't cert and home lab your way through it.

[@johndank2209]

What are u talking about? If an employer needs someone with netwirking knowledge he can look for someone with ccna cert, if he needs a security expert he can look for someone with security+ or better

[@drstewart]

@@johndank2209 What are *you* talking about? I didn't say "knowledge" I said degree. Yes, employers want them. Certs won't substitute for what an employer wants. Remember that for the most part, potential employers are not looking for reasons to hire you or work with you. They're looking for reasons to knock you out of the running. Not having the requirements of the job listing (like a _degree_ if specified) makes dropping you an easy decision.

[@johndank2209]

​@@drstewart okay, what if someone gets the knowledge from their certification course and buy a fake degree??

[@drstewart]

@@johndank2209 What if they get fake certs and watch a KZbin video? Is this really a valid route?

[@johndank2209]

@@drstewart not really a fair comparison. you can gain enough knowledge to be qualified for a job with a cert and a degree, just watching youtube videos won't be enough.

[@elegeto]

I've done both the Sec+ and the Net+. I would disagree heavily that the Sec+ "is considered a harder cert". I don't think that sentiment is repeated elsewhere and I really disagree. Sec+ requires a wider array of knowledge, but a shallower understanding of the concepts, whereas Net+ requires a more narrow scope of knowledge but much deeper understanding. I think both certs are about equal in terms of difficulty. Sec+ definitely has more memorization and knowledge required, whereas Net+ requires more technical understanding of the different systems and how they interact and get your data from point A to point B. I think both certs are very valuable.

[@foobar1269]

It depends on the company but you are right. Majority of the time the company only cares about if you know the job not if you went to Harvard University. For other fields that is not computer related this may not be the case.

[@washboardman7435]

The thing that sucks about SANS/GIAC certs is if you decide to save money by skipping the training, the exam voucher's price jumps from $800 to $2,000.

[@simonbauer83]

I should get a Rust cert... Writing an API Wrapper with OAuth2 is apparently not evident enough. Thanks Mental for the idea!

[@simonbauer83]

@@leeroyjenkins0 should be evident. Fixed it right up. Evidence for the skill of course.

[@sebastianwendl603]

And once again, I am glad to live in Europe. When tuition fees at my uni were raised last year to 52€ / semester , it was an outrage. Not because it is too expensive, but because knowledge is supposed to be free. So in my case, I will likely only get into certs afterwards, or (if I'm lucky) do a few projects with my uni and let those results speak for me.

[@GhostofTradition]

So if knowledge is supposedly free that's saying teachers should work for free...

[@RamAurelius]

Knowledge should always be free, an education should not be.

[@Madnot4]

@@RamAurelius education is the teaching of previous knowledge, just what are you trying to say? The goverment has more than enough money to pay teachers and pay them well, education can be free

[@moofin4170]

I never even knew this existed, I’m nervous about what career to pick. I’m between some type of COMPSCI and Law