Why Characters Got Selected: Super Smash Bros. Melee - the Original Vision

[@AaronDamigos]

I remember when I got banned on Miiverse for spoiling that Sheik was actually Zelda.

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

jesus christ

[@baileylynn5562]

It's literally spoiled in Smash though lmao. I remember finding out they were the same person by playing Brawl when I was 5

[@Compucles]

@@baileylynn5562 Smash for Wii U then spoiled a major plot twist in "Xenoblade Chronicles."

[@hunter-6125]

I knew that sheik was Zelda before I knew who sheik or Zelda was

[@XtraThankYou24]

Really? People should've known that from *Melee* & *Ocarina of Time* alone lol

[@SpunkyLadl]

Mr. Game&Watch's inclusion might've also factored at the time Gunpei Yokoi was Nintendo's largest and most important video game designer as well as a toy designer back around the 1960's. He also came up with the original Gameboy and Game and Watch LCD handhelds, and since he passed away at around 1997 the inclusion might've been a nice tribute to his legacy at Nintendo.

[@darkdoctor1915]

The Melee newcomers are my favorites since half are iconic and half are completely random

[@bigpilldoc145]

Doc is iconic. Don’t quote me on that

[@darkdoctor1915]

@@bigpilldoc145,Doc is my main,by the way what does don't quote me mean

[@bigpilldoc145]

@@darkdoctor1915 basically it means that it might not be correct, and if it isn’t then I wasn’t here lol

[@darkdoctor1915]

@@bigpilldoc145, ok I see, I think he's iconic in smash, since he was the first character to skip a game in the series, or basically returned after he was cut in Brawl, that makes him special in smash, you know?

[@bigpilldoc145]

@@darkdoctor1915 indeed. Amazing character even if some don’t see it

[@cristo236]

Sakurai stans Dr. Mario what a W

[@bigpilldoc145]

Doc op

[@TheRedScizor]

As a Fire Emblem fan, I'm happy Sakurai has believed in the series for so long.

[@ian_2006]

But do you think we have too many fire emblem fighters???

[@Creepy___]

@@ian_2006 for me I felt like Chrom was the last one that was really needed in the game, but it makes sense why Byleth is also in now and I am perfectly fine with it

[@Venemofthe888]

I mean fire emblem is 2nd for most representatives tied with pokemon and one behind mario

[@ian_2006]

@@Venemofthe888 do you think Mario and Pokemon has too much reps?

[@Venemofthe888]

@@ian_2006 mario not really cause they are different for the most part and being the foundation of Nintendo i don't mind it. Pokemon i think may have too many like incineroar is a bit unnecessary

[@misterzygarde6431]

You know, I’m surprised that Melee didn’t get a Super Street Fighter style re-release considering how well it did like adding new non-clone characters

[@wellplayod1957]

I would love that

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

That's because Sakurai doesn't like the idea of releasing updated ports of his previous Smash games onto current systems, which was how Brawl came to be (Iwata's back-up plan was to port Melee onto the Wii with online multiplayer).

[@jimfitzgerald2289]

@@raphaelmarquez9650 Thank god for that. Imagine if he had that idea. Smash 4 would get ported to the Switch instead of creating Ultimate.

[@wolfdragox5563]

@@raphaelmarquez9650 you have no idea how many Melee players would have love that, specially bc Brawl was a mess for competitive (even when it’s one of my favorite smash games)

[@whatuh991]

This is completely unrelated but who else loves Peach's design in the Smash games more than the actual Mario titles? Probably just me

[@mrdasjo]

Her Melee design is the most detailed I've ever seen for her.

[@UntarLaManteca]

Peach's design on the Mario games is just a boring pink dress with zero detail. On Smash however, it's as detailed as it can get

[@bam577]

@@mrdasjo kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLaZapvjMyLmbM

[@darthnugget6128]

@@bam577 ha I saw the two Q’s cant get me

[@jackflynn412]

The Smash design is just better

[@grayshores5264]

I’m really glad we have joke characters. It’s nice to have strange odd balls.

[@bluberrydee6205]

Ok cool Sakurai likes Dr. Mario this totally means we're getting the viruses as Challenger Pack 8

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Will one of the Costumes for the Viruses be named Corona?

[@Lexicon865]

Funny how this technically aged like wine since we got the man who technically caused Geostigma as FP8 Unless you meant the Viruses from Dr. Mario, specifically

[@retrogamermax8287]

Melee was actually Smash 64: The Director's Cut Edition since so plenty of Melee's newcomers like Bowser, Mewtwo, Peach, ect were originally planned or considered for Smash 64.

[@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269]

That's a Nice way to call it!

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

I was like "this roy looks absolutely nothing like the roy I know" and then I find out he's literally just based on concept art and even sakurai knows that melee roy is just an OC

[@juanrodriguez9971]

Roy is literally the first Smash original character, I wouldn't be surprised if we get another of his kind in the future.

[@MelancholyJoker19]

@@juanrodriguez9971 Wouldn't that be Mr. Game & Watch since he's not an actual character but just the G&W in a character format?

[@CometX-ing]

@@juanrodriguez9971 i think calling him Smash original is a stretch.

[@Compucles]

@@juanrodriguez9971 Nah, it's Master Hand from back in the original game.

[@GatorOne-in7hk]

What about Brawl Pit? He’s absolutely NOTHING like he is today, and it’s incredibly awkward. At least Melee Roy is cool.

[@MelancholyJoker19]

That's pretty crazy for Ganondorf tbh I'm just a bit bummed out they never gave Melee Ganondorf's moveset to Black Shadow and made Ganondorf unique in later entries

[@DarkGamer364]

I even refuse to call this character Ganondorf, since his moveset does not represent him at all. As long as he keeps his current moveset in Smash, I continue to call him Slow Falcon (with Ike Smashes)

[@wolfdragox5563]

Ultimate Ganon is the most unique of all smash Ganons and he still is not that different aside of his smash attacks

[@newmallenium]

This whole time I thought Dr. Mario, Young Link and Pichu were added for the sake of adding more characters and they were just easy to implement.

[@LucarioShirona]

They still were, it just means their choices were not random.

[@wolfdragox5563]

That’s actually the main reason to why they were included, so don’t feel bad bro you were right all the time 😅

[@gamemaster2819]

It’s not that simple. Imagine Sakurai thinking, “I’ll add a clone because I only have enough time for a clone. I’ll make a Pluton fighter as a Bowser clone.” A clone still has to be a character people would actually like or know about

[@myboy_]

9:03 so strange seeing a luigi actually running back and forth

[@kildaver]

...the game literally _yells_ its name, and folks still insist on mispronouncing it. Hands on my hips, shaking my head.

[@borederlands5387]

In the game it sounds like "meelee" or "milly"

[@solitairemario]

@@borederlands5387 No it doesn't.

[@maniacaal]

@@borederlands5387 may lay.

[@solitairemario]

@@maniacaal *That's literally how to pronounce "Melee" man*

[@illford]

@@solitairemario did they say it wasn't m

[@TheRealZXXZ]

About Roy and the Smash 2 poll: This reason why his name was "Emblem" could be traced from the fact the poll had a miscellaneous Fire Emblem winning second place, before Marth, in the Fire Emblem section. So they left an opening in case they want to, and could, add another FE character. Sounds pretty reachy but could be the solve to the mystery.

[@NantenJex]

I don't think there's much of a mystery tbh. I think it's simply that they knew wanted a character from Fire Emblem, but just didn't know who it would be. A fact I didn't bring up in the video is that Roy was at one point called Ike so it's also possible that Intelligent Systems hadn't settled on his name yet when they spoke with Sakurai.

[@Alex-jz2hk]

@@NantenJex I think He was making a reference to Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem but that is an interesting fact you just gave honestly

[@mrkicks7817]

9:39 Attack of the Clones is Episode II. Melee is the second smash game. Attack of the Clones came out around half a year after Melee. Melee including a bunch of Clone Characters. Melee must've helped increase views of Attack of the Clones. But that's just a theory, A GAME/FILM THEORY!

[@MattDustyParker]

I never did realize the Spaceworld demo model was the melee model for Ganondorf, despite seeing that thing countless times .

[@galegopaulista4564]

I know this isn't really related to the video, but I think a new game for the Ice Climbers would be really cool. Edit: since some people here in the replies are sharing a lot of cool ideas, I thought I'd share a few of mine too. - The game could be in 3D. I do like 2D games, but I think 3D has more interesting possibilities. - Gameplay: definitely needs to have an emphasis on cooperation. Whether you have a friend or you're playing with an AI, the game needs to encourage and reward good cooperation. That's what defines the Ice Climbers nowadays. - Story: the ICs end up being lost while collecting veggies for their village with their parents, and are now trying to get back, while their parents are trying to find them. - Vegetables need to be very important. It's quite difficult to find fertile land in a place where there's almost only ice, so they're certainly interesting not just for humans, but any other living being, such as condors and bears. Perhaps the eggplant/aubergine could be the most important one. - Another thing that would be beneficial is a solid online multiplayer experience, as long as it still rewards good cooperation. - Give them cosmetics. You know that'd be cool.

[@domobfdi5480]

I'd be all for that

[@whaleping]

Yeah, with plot. Little plot but some type of plot. Give Nana and Popo slightly different personalities. Show some Sister and Brother interactions.

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

yeah like one of those mobile games you whip out cause you have nothing else to do, like flappy bird was, but obviously with a little more depth

[@thisisasupersayin376]

Has anyone played Tak and the Great Juju Challenge for PS2 and Gamecube? That's a pretty good blueprint for the gameplay I'd want from a new Ice Climbers game.

[@INFERNO95]

Nobody would buy a ice climbers game in 3D.

[@LetterNumber]

One criticism I will continue to have about the Smash roster is the lack of characters from handheld-exclusive series. Golden Sun 1, Advance Wars 1, Drill Dozer are now all older than Ice Climbers were when they were added to Melee. Handheld games are so essential to Nintendo's legacy and deserve at least one character in Smash Bros.

[@newageBoundhippie]

well pretty much every Pokemon game even so much as referenced in the entire Smash series has been from handhelds, with the ONLY exceptions being Snap ( Zero-One trophy in Melee ) and of course the spirits in Ultimate from the Let's Go gen 1 remakes and Sword/Shield ( though seeing as Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee are remakes and Sword/Shield is the new mainline entry, the fact only 2 spin-offs have gotten any references is crazy...Snap, and the 3DS's Detective Pikachu are the only Pokemon spin-offs referenced in Smash. ). Also, Advance Wars isn't a handheld only series...it started on the Famicom with Famicom Wars, and continued over the SNES, Game Boy, GBA, Gamecube, DS and Wii.

[@MakoShiruba]

While no concrete evidence exists about when these characters were chosen, we do have some material that can help us identify at least when were the characters were worked on during development. There exists an unused Character Select Screen Animation which has all fighters strike a pose when selected, just like in 64, using 3D Models and all that. From these models, almost all of the original twelve work properly, the only exceptions being Mario, Fox and DK, which either have clipping issues or are unfinished. And from the newcomers, only Zelda, Ice Climbers, Bowser, Marth and Mr Game and Watch seem unfinished. While these last characters are not strange to be unfinished, considering the factors of them being new and the original twelve most likely being imported files, the issue is that Fox, DK, Jigglypuff and Luigi all have new animations for this, so this must have been worked on quite a bit. Adding to that, Sheik does have a selection, so it only adds to the intrigue. What about clones? Well, Dr. Mario works almost perfectly, so maybe the work done on Mario was swapped to the Doctor and then started working on Mario but cut this feature midway? Roy also has a much more complete animation than Marth, so maybe the same applies here. Young Link also has a somewhat identifiable animation, but it's wholly unfinished. And both Falco, Ganondorf and Pichu don't even have this, Pichu has a broken animation, and both Falco and Ganondorf have static images, with Falco reusing his final pose in a victory screen. So, here is my guess: -The CSS animation was cut sometime during late development, after the last characters where chosen, probably to save time on debugging this feature and add it in conjuction with the idea of giving players the selection of Zelda and Sheik. -So it must have been pretty late. Maybe late 2000? -As such, the last three characters must have been around this time. So it means Falco, Ganondorf and Pichu were selected in this time frame(speculation). -Roy, Young Link, Mr Game and Watch could also have been selected sometime here. I say since the feature still works on them, but isn't finished, that around early 2000 to sometime mid 1999, just before the idea was scrapped. -It could be that Bowser's moveset idea and finalization also came around this time. -While all the other fighters where chosen and finalized sometime in mid 1999. My guess is that Fire Emblem was considered to be a "major" Nintendo franchise and be on Fox's spot, where Marth and the "clone" character would be, while Zelda would have been on Link spot, with Sheik being a selectable fighter at the side. Since FE is treated almost like a Bonus Franchise, with no real trophies, no stage and only one music track and it seems weird for me that Sheik be having a CSS Animation despite it being treated almost like a Secret Character(you have to hold a combination of buttons to start as him....her? Whatever.)

[@wolfdragox5563]

In retrospective, I find pretty interesting how both Melee and Brawl tried to be the definitive smash experience at the time and both ended up being broken as a result, Ultimate was the only one that was both technically functional and great, Sm4sh due to technical limitations wasn’t even close to be the definitive experience and now we know it was basically a prototype of Ultimate

[@TheMack625]

Dr. Mario is my favorite fighter in Melee. I'm not much of a fan of the gameplay of Dr. Mario games, but do agree with Sakurai in that the music is catchy. I'm glad he made it in. So, Ganondorf ended up being a lucky man to make it into Melee, largely due to the tech demo? Very interesting! I know that many fans love that he finally uses a sword in Ultimate, but I've been a big Ganondorf fan since Melee. I really like Melee's batch of newcomers.

[@beknown63]

Sakurai on Smash 64: “With the Smash I had envisioned, I had only completed about 60% of it.” Smash Ultimate: So that was a fucking lie.

[@lll.24601]

What are you talking about?

[@wolfdragox5563]

@@lll.24601 Ultimate is Sakurai’s “definitive” vision for smash, and that game is over 10 times bigger than smash 64, joke speaks for itself

[@cjszero01]

Is it possible to have this looked at for the upcoming Brawl version of this? There's a lot of people that say after Sonic was announced he was the cause for the delay but I have two things that kind of debunk that. 1.) The first demo of Brawl that was available to the public happened at E for All 2007 a week after the announcement and Sonic was one of the playable characters. I should know, I was there and played it. The demo is still mentioned on the old Brawl site. Seems a bit weird that he would delay a game if he was already good to go by that time. Yes, he was added very very late into the game, but as you'll soon see, there were more that followed. 2.) Sonic wasn't the last character added to the game. That would be Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff. What's interesting about this is around the time of that Brawl demo mentioned earlier, there was an interview with David Hayter, Snake's voice actor. He was asked who he wanted to beat up the most, with his answer being along the lines of a Pokemon specifically mentioning Pikachu and Jigglypuff. It's very possible that he already did all the Snake Codecs at that time, implying that he knew Jigglypuff, the last character added, was in the game. Bonus 3.) This isn't as much of a point, as more of a "food for thought".There was something from Sega that said he caused the delay, but I have to wonder if they really knew that or if something else is going on there. We already know there are two different stories about M.J.'s music in Sonic 3. This could be another situation to that. That's just some food for thought. I hope you guys see this message and look into it, and keep up the good work.

[@NantenJex]

Yeah I'll take a look at it and see. For the second point one of my theories for a while is that Toon Link, Wolf and Jigglypuff only got into the game BECAUSE Sonic caused a delay. Like, Sakurai requested more time for Sonic and Nintendo said yes but gave him more time than he needed so he decided to fill out the roster. That's just a theory of course, I'll do some research ;)

[@cjszero01]

@@NantenJex I definitely see that but the thing about the Snake Voice Actor interview almost makes it sound like he knew Jigglypuff was already in the game. Appreciate it though.

[@MakoShiruba]

I think the discrepancy seems to be that Jigglypuff was being worked on but wasn't really finished. It could be that Jigglypuff was planned to be in the game, but was being reworked, before being scrapped and then "reimported" from used assets. A huge speculation also surrounds Ness in this. Toon Link might have been a rework on Young Link, simply adapting him into the new "timeline", kinda how Young Link and Adult Link in Melee were. His work possibly was finished as being a derivative clone around the time, so it seems natural to think that he wasn't affected by Sonic's Delay. As far as Wolf goes? Yeah, he seems pretty tacked on. So my guess is: -Sonic was added so late in development, he could ONLY fit as the absolute last character in SSE, saving everyone from Tabuu final attack. -The three remaining characters were finished around this time. -Jigglypuff was being planned heavy on the early to mid development but was cut, only to be added almost as a reused character. -Work on the "Faster Link" was finished into Toon Link, who might have recieved a completely new model and animations, worked from Young Link's frame, who originally was supposed to be in the game, probably as a nod to the cut version of Zelda/Tetra from Wind Waker. -Wolf was added as a clone character, derivative of Fox and using Fox's model, animations and such. This one was the one who eate up most of the extra time of the delay.

[@cjszero01]

@@MakoShiruba It's not a bad theory but just saying we do know from the coding that Sonic was added very very late but the other three finished after him. It's possible that they focused more time into Sonic's development to get him done in time but the thing that still makes me believe he didn't cause the delay is that he was playable a week after being shown. For example we saw Banjo and Kazooie's trailer months before they were playable. What I mean by that is just because we see them in a trailer doesn't mean they're ready to be playable, but being in a playable demo kind of means they are or at the very least super close to being completed.

[@mrdasjo]

Melee's roster was a bit strange for it's time. I remember the first time I saw the full roster and I was like, "Huh?" Back when Fire Emblem was very obscure in North America, and people were confused as to who Mr. Game & Watch was. Good times...

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

to be honest I thought game and watch was a smash original character until I looked up his smash wiki page

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

@@empressfrozentoes5285 and when did you looked that up?

[@alphabootlegitimate2643]

I'm among the lucky few who knew who he was. I was young, too.

[@inheritedwheel2900]

this was one of the fun parts of playing the game when it came out. literally not knowing the characters as you unlocked them... felt so mysterious back then. good times!

[@brandonwilliams6119]

I wanna go back and relive those days they really were good times! Back when Fire Emblem Characters were referred to as “Those 2 Cool Sword Dudes”

[@roseheart270]

HOLY COW a simultaneous platformed on the NES, Ice Climbers really do deserve to be in the Nintendo Platform Fighter series.

[@OrangeStar222]

Ganondorf's story is wild! You'd think he'd be a no-brainer considering his role in the series.

[@DianaGohan]

I admit the biggest surprise was the reveal that Sakurai chose Ganondorf based on his appearance in a tech demo of all things. I'm guessing the reason Ganondorf wasn't originally considered despite the fact that Legend of Zelda is such a popular series is that Ganon especially at the time wasn't that consistent of a character. Like you had a basic idea of what Bowser and Mewtwo were suppposed to appear like and what their powers would be but Ganon has changed his look several times with Ganondorf being honestly a pretty new variation at the time so it was probably harder to get an exact grasp on what his moveset would be. I'm guessing that Sakurai was never really grabbed by the idea of really delving back more into Legend of Zelda since the only other character we've gotten in 20 years of Smash from LoZ is yet ANOTHER variation of Link and though we get some tweaks here and there yeah no new character at all which does feel rather disappointing.

[@NantenJex]

Yeah I think that, in the same way that Young Link at the time was considered the main Link, Pig Ganon was probably considered as the main Ganon. And unlike Bowser I could see Sakurai having reservations about adding Pig Ganon in the same way he did Ridley, especially the Ocarina of Time version of Ganon.

[@NF_Reviews]

Correction: that's why Zelda got in Sheik was put in before Zelda, hinting at the transformation aspect not exactly being the reason why he chose to add the duo, or simply he wanted to exemplify the uniqueness of Sheik & what he offered in comparison to Zelda, thereby adding him first. Of course, me "correcting" was a joke here

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

Games like Fire Emblem or Pokemon are usually chosen by the latest instalment because each entry has a unique set of characters. Unlike Zelda or Kirby that always has the main cast, games specifically JRPGs dont follow that. And because the latest instalment is different, its more like a necessity to add the latest chracater from FE & Pokemon in every Smash game to cater the modern audience. In theory, Xenoblade, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest or Persona would've follow this if they were added in Smash earlier. Edit: Corrin was such and still an unnecessary inclusion imo

[@juanrodriguez9971]

It's quite sad that Xenoblade didn't follow this idea too during Wii U era, like, Elma was infinitely a better option for DLC than Roy and Corrin.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@juanrodriguez9971 Elma would’ve been very interesting, it’s a shame Shulk is still the only Xenoblade Representative. Even Rex would’ve been better than Byleth.

[@CometX-ing]

@@juanrodriguez9971 Corrin is a fine and unique character. People just treat him like the worst because that’s when people started to get pissy about Fire Emblem.

[@juanrodriguez9971]

@@CometX-ing And because her game is shit

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

@@CometX-ing i mean both the FE & Smash community don't particulary like him/her and their game

[@herpydepth3849]

God it’s so weird seeing Melee gameplay without all the wavedashing

[@QJD1381]

Considering just how popular Ganondorf was already thanks to OOT, it's just crazy to me that he only got in as a last minute clone. Why didn't he get the same kind of priority that Bowser, Marth and Mewtwo got, who also won in the poll for their series?

[@DarkGamer364]

Yeah, it would have bees so cool if he had a moveset based on his actual games, like throwing magical projectiles or using a spear like Phantom Ganon did in OoT. But instead they decided to make him a clone of a character from a totally different franchise.

[@MakoShiruba]

Probably because Sakurai insisted on Ganon, not dorf, to be the representative of Zelda's villain and had reservations on the character, probably due to his size and weapon of choice. If I had to guess: Ridley situation(how can you possibly do him justice)

[@TomTheyy]

I'm guessing because Ganon wasn't one of the characters that was scrapped (if not worked on to some degree, was it?) for Smash 64 and thus prioritised for a sequel, like how Wario would be one of the newcomers for Brawl after a buzz about him in Melee's development, and so on.

[@alexpotts6520]

Possibly also because there were three other characters from Zelda being introduced in Melee, and Sakurai was wary of adding too many characters from the same franchise (hence why Wario missed the cut).

[@TomTheyy]

@@alexpotts6520 but he did add a fourth in Ganondorf? Do you mean in terms of non-clones?

[@jubisisters]

I wish we had gotten Ryota Hayami instead of Ganondorf. It's not like Melee wasn't also missing perennial favorites like Wario and Dedede, and if Ganon had been one of our Long Expected characters for Brawl rather than a clone in Melee, we would likely have gotten a much cooler Ganondorf moveset, with influence from OoT, WW and TP available to pull from. Meanwhile, Ryota fits Captain Falcon's build better, fits his moveset better, and would be another N64/GCN racing star. Just imagine it: instead of a firey Falcon Punch, the star of Wave Race could have a watery DOLPHIN PUNCH, referencing the Gamecube itself! I also would have chosen Donkey Kong Jr. as a lighter, faster DK clone a la Young Link or Pichu, and I think Gooey would have made a good Kirby clone as well.

[@insertusernamehere51]

Why did you have to make me want this?

[@NantenJex]

@@insertusernamehere51 Same haha.

[@tjlnintendo]

Gooie’s lack of limbs might make things abit difficult to make him a clone. Also he doesn’t inhale, he uses his tongue like yoshi.

[@CometX-ing]

I do wish Roy was given a more accurate in game moveset in Smash 4. He should have at least one projectile.

[@fledermausmann27]

"Super Smash Bros. Melly"

[@davidrawlings8380]

I've been waiting for this video for 84 years!

[@prizm9515]

Ganondorf would have been in Brawl regardless of his inclusion in Melee. Interesting though, that he was one of the last characters considered in Melee, but today is probably one of the most popular characters that people play.

[@spacepuppy720]

I always loved how melee made so many references to the N64 era of the game universes. That's always been my favorite thing about it.

[@SpiralPoli]

To me Pichu is the best "WTF" character. For inexperienced players he sucks but for people that learned how to play his style, he's a lethal weapon and the most underrated character on the roster.

[@cyber895]

Interesting stuff. I hope you'll continue with information for Brawl and onwards. This was helpful to know. I do find it funny that Ganondorf's inclusion was "entirely down to the fact that he has a slightly similar build to Captain Falcon..." That has remained true to Smash for so long.

[@uncreativeusername8362]

Looking forward to Brawl, Sm4sh and Ultimate.

[@KawlunDram]

KZbin needs to add support for multiple audio tracks on videos so people can choose between “UK English” and “American English” and stop complaining about the way NantenJex pronounces things

[@kingpikmin13]

I don’t think Pichu was included _solely_ as a joke character/intentionally bad character. I don’t even think Pichu is a bad character at all. I feel that the “joke character” title was something completely made up by the community. On Pichu’s page in the Japanese Melee website, it only states that Pichu is the weakest character in regards to its attack power, while also mentioning its self-damage trait and being the lightest fighter in the game. These are detailed as big disadvantages, not as a way of labeling Pichu as intentionally bad or a joke character. “Joke character” and “weakest character” are not one and the same. Many other characters in Melee have glaring flaws too, Pichu’s are just more prevalent. For example, Bowser is among the strongest fighters and is the heaviest in the game, but he’s incredibly slow and is a big target, so he can’t escape from combos as easily as someone like Pichu can. This segues into Pichu’s advantages-I think to truly be a joke character, you cannot have a single advantage in your moveset. Just like Jigglypuff, Pichu can also be deadly in the right hands. Pichu is speedy (one of the fastest characters in the game), and since it’s so small, many characters will have trouble hitting it. Thanks to Pichu’s speed, it can string combos together for good damage, and its recovery travels a large distance. There are other strengths outside of these, but my point is that Pichu is not a joke character, and although it may sound worse than Pikachu on paper, depending on the player’s style, Pichu could turn out to be _better_ than Pikachu. In my case, Pichu is my main in Melee (and Ultimate) and is my favorite character in the Smash franchise. Pichu’s disadvantages make for a very fun and challenging character, and mastering Pichu is very rewarding.

[@Sol6ris]

This reminds me of the whole, "You play Marth? Why not play Lucina? She's better." It all depends on your playstyle, and to be honest, If it's a character you like, you're gonna play them regardless what the community thinks otherwise. Play who you want and if you enjoy them, that's what matters but the Smash community sucks. Haha Marth/Pichu bad, Lucina/Pikachu good.

[@kennethconnally4356]

Fun fact: "notorious" means "famous in a bad way," as in "the notorious serial killer Ted Bundy" or "Bethesda games are notoriously buggy." So the Smash series isn't notorious for its diverse selection of characters, because that's a good thing.

[@clappytriofan2098]

Huh. Interesting!

[@JC11110]

Wrong

[@Alxinho959]

1.- Mario 2.- Donkey Kong 3.- Link 4.- Samus 5.- Yoshi 6.- Kirby 7.- Fox 8.- Pikachu 9.- Luigi 10.- Ness 11.- Captain Falcon 12.- Jigglypuff 13.- Peach 14.- Bowser 15.- Ice Climbers 16.- Sheik 17.- Zelda 18.- Dr. Mario 19.- Pichu 20.- Falco 21.- Marth 22.- Young Link 23.- Ganondorf 24.- Mewtwo 25.- Roy 26.- Mr. Game & Watch 27.- Meta Knight 28.- Pit 29.- Zero Suit Samus 30.- Wario 31.- Snake 32.- Ike 33.- Pokémon Trainer 34.- Squirtle 35.- Ivysaur 36.- Charizard 37.- Diddy Kong 38- Lucas 39.- Sonic 40.- King Dedede 41.- Olimar 42.- Lucario 43.- R.O.B. 44.- Toon Link 45.- Wolf 46.- Villager 47.- Mega Man 48.- Wii Fit Trainer 49.- Rosalina & Luma 50.- Little Mac 51.- Greninja 52.- Mii Brawler 53.- Mii Gunner 54.- Mii Swordfighter 55.- Palutena 56.- Dark Pit 57.- Pac-Man 58.- Lucina 59.- Robin 60.- Shulk 61.- Bowser Jr. 62.- Duck Hunt 63.- Ryu 64.- Cloud 65.- Corrin 66.- Bayonetta 67.- Inkling 68.- Daisy 69.- Ridley 70.- Simon 71.- Richter 72.- Chrom 73.- Dark Samus 74.- King K. Rool 75.- Isabelle 76.- Ken 77.- Incineroar 78.- Piranha Plant 79.- Joker 80.- Hero 81.- Banjo & Kazooie 82.- Terry 83.- Byleth 84.- Min Min 85.- Steve 86.- Sephiroth 87.- Pyra 88.- Mythra 89.- Kazuya 90.- Sora

[@tjlnintendo]

Wow we are 15 away from a 100. What an era.

[@bowserjr.815]

tjlnintendo If we include the Koopalings, Alph, Alex/Enderman/Zombie and add the remaining 4 characters from Fighters Pass 2 we get exactly 100

[@tjlnintendo]

@@bowserjr.815 Wow Sakurai.... that mad genius.

[@tjlnintendo]

@ANTONIO RUIZ Near the bottom of the list

[@juanluisisaiasgameplays6604]

And Alph?

[@mariajimenafigueroa233]

Smash fact 2: This is one of the last games where Princess Peach had a child-like voice.

[@elkarlo1593]

I think Mr. Game & Watch was actually the first character with the modem mindset (more so to the Smash 4 level rather than the Ultimate level) of modeling the game around the character instead of the character around the game As in, the Fighter playing like in their own games, wich I think is way more simple for Game & Watch than it was for like, Mega Man or Minecraft

[@the_bookworm8281]

It is supported by the fact that I believe the Mr. Game & Watch was one of the last characters added to the game. The combination of him being the final character to be unlocked (you have to unlock everyone else first to get to him) and that there are some aspects of his moveset that feels unfinished (lack of L-canceling and extremely short shield).

[@mayosanta]

The way he pronounces Yoshiller scares me but otherwise great video mate!

[@CaptainBlackBread]

"I'm just going to be calling it Super Smash Brothers Melly from here on out and you're just going to have to deal with it." Hell no, I'm not going 17 minutes hearing it called Melly.

[@XtraThankYou24]

Wait *64/Melee Link* was slow to people? Not the way my brother used him lol i used to hate when he picked him. Even in *SOULCALIBUR II* for *GameCube* Link was fairly mid-fast & agile.

[@carterphillips7244]

15:19 what “animation” of ganondorf has that sword?

[@poweredvoltage3213]

One of his victory screens

[@DuranmanX]

You don't need to be in the A-Team, as long as you can bring something new Is that why Melee introduced the most amount of clones of any Smash game, even making Ganondorf a clone?

[@tjlnintendo]

No it was because of the 13 month rushed development.

[@DuranmanX]

@@tjlnintendo because Nintendo decided to make Ganondorf a low priority character and Ice Climbers a high priority character

[@elephantyarn7378]

From what I gather, the clones weren't originally going to be added, but they decided the game could use some more characters and we're too late in to add a unique character, so better add some clones

[@DuranmanX]

@@elephantyarn7378 problem is those clones remained clones even after Melee when they could have just made them unique and faithful in the first place

[@tigboi]

Ive climbers mewtwo, young link, and my main Kirby are my all time favs

[@jakebarton2528]

You should bring up in the next video how Banjo was going to be in Melee but communication between the UK and Japan were difficult

[@empressfrozentoes5285]

I'm pretty sure a Rare character was considered, but they weren't absolutely going to add banjo like they would've done with takamaru or something

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Microsoft

[@rowanprogamer9023]

Marth He was the Blue-Japanese Traditional Hair Swordsman like the Poster Boy/Main Protagonist from the Fire 🔥 Emblem Series but I’m very happy 😃 that he was In Super Smash Bros.™️ Meele (Melly) Mr. Sakurai really want to say some FE 25th Anniversary/ Fire Emblem Relationship to Nintendo to add this character in the Main Base-game roster.

[@KAPTAINmORGANnWo4eva]

In retrospect I really could have lived without Ganondorf in Melee. Imagine if the King of Evil had his big debut as the apparent main villain of Brawl's Subspace Emissary with a fully unique moveset instead of what we got: waiting 17 years for him to actually use a sword and sharing spotlight with characters that show traces of what he could have been (I'd roughly liken an ideal Ganon(dorf) to Mewtwo's Specials and Byleth's Normals).

[@DarkGamer364]

not to mention that he may uses a sword, but is shown as the OoT Ganondorf who never used a sword in the first place.

[@tjlnintendo]

@@DarkGamer364 What makes it funnier is that its the space world 2000 sword.

[@jurassicking101.4]

That explains why there are so many Fire emblem characters.

[@3twibles4sweetrevenge]

Patrons get videos a week early Me getting all videos in a single day:

[@Rubberman202]

Was Mach Rider ever planned to be in Smash Bros.? I remember Sakurai saying something like that, but I think he also said it jokingly, and that only people like him care about Mach Rider and Takamaru and The Mysterious Murasame Castle... Also, something about Kamen Rider.

[@thepsyshyster]

They'll probably mention it in the next video, but Mach Rider was listed as a potential NES rep character alongside a few others, like Takamaru from the Mysterious Murasame Castle and Ayumi Tachibana from Famicom Detective Club. Ultimately, Ice Climbers were chosen in place of the other options.

[@MakoShiruba]

He was part of the characters who were considered as a RetroRepresentative, alongside Balloon Fighter, ROB, Pit, Takamaku, Ayumi Tachibana and many more.

[@Rubberman202]

@@MakoShiruba I thought it was Balloon Fighter, Bubbles from Clu Clu Land, and the Excitebiker...

[@MakoShiruba]

@@Rubberman202 It was a long list, so no doubt they were considered.

[@yellowgamers5996]

Why Characters Got Selected: Super Smash Bros. Brawl soon

[@Sjono]

Who is this adult Link? Link has never been an adult in any game, only a guy in his late teens

[@tjlnintendo]

Its just a term used to describe older Link. It could also be related to Japanese culture.

[@Sjono]

@@tjlnintendo It’s an incorrect term. Japanese civil law does not recognize 17 year olds as adults

[@danieldiehl6063]

I wonder which were the only 2 games Sakurai considered to have Adult Link at Melee's time. I suppose he meant Ocarina of Time and Zelda 2, since both had a 16 yo Link. However, some evidences suggest Link could be around 16 in the aLttP and Links Awakening games (Zelda is 16 in aLttP and Marin is 16 in Link's Awakening) and also.. when Link was redesigned for A Link Between Worlds it was intended for him not to look like an adult as he did in a Link to The Past... so that kinda makes me confuse...

[@danieldiehl6063]

worth noting the rerelease of aLttP for the GBA had some updated artwork that do make Link's face look younger and also had the voice from Youn Link for the character and the Oracle games, which take place aftert aLttP also featured a young looking Link, but if I recall correctly, both happened after Melee.

[@chrisbeach423]

Cant wait for this!!!

[@fredcarmichael5544]

Been waiting for this video

[@g24eva27]

Sakurai: I'm not sure about a sequel. Proceeds to make 4 more sequels and wanting to do a 6th game. We love you Sakurai, but for the love of God please take a well deserved vacation!!!!

[@IMadeUpKear]

geez, it sounds like 300 people voted in this poll! now days if sakurai did something like that he'd get THOUSANDS of responses.

[@alexpotts6520]

He'd easily get more votes for Shrek than the entirety of the votes cast in 1999.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

@@alexpotts6520 Maybe he’d get many votes for James Bond since Rare was under Nintendo’s Umbrella and had the License to the franchise and there were no “Video Game Character Only Rules” back then.

[@gabcard2767]

Isn't Ganondorf also listed as the last fighter in the game files? Can't get more last minute than that.

[@teamrocket7590]

That’s why melee ganon looks horrific

[@XtraThankYou24]

So basically *echo fighters* are the kids that copy your homework and get a passing grade. 💀

[@kingnewcomer2029]

I always kinda thought that maybe the reason Dr. Mario was included in Great Fray Smash Brothers Deluxe was because of Dr. Mario 64 being released in the same year as both the GameCube, and Deluxe despite the game never being released in Japan until 2 years later, same with Pichu being included because it was basically a pre-evolution of the Pocket Monsters main mascot', but this is still pretty interesting nonetheless! Yeah, it makes sense to include Mewtwo as well especially with the release of Pocket Monsters The Movie: Mewtwo's Counterattack, as it being incredibly iconic in the Pokemon franchise. Actually, Gold & Silver WAS out in Japan before even the original Smash game on the Nintendo 64, that being in 1998, 1 year before Nintendo All-Star: Great Fray Smash Brothers. ;) I think I was actually aware of Ganondorf's model in Deluxe being based off of that CGI model. I still wonder why in Deluxe, and onward "Game Set", and "Time Up" was only used in the Japanese versions of the game whereas every other region just says "Game!", and "Time!", not to mention an exclamation point added at the end for some reason? Look forward to Part 3 with Great Fray Smash Brothers X! :D

[@karimmarquez6756]

This dude really said meh-lee

[@YassineTorchani-dc2cm]

14:59 huh...that explains why the Japanese names of his moves are on Japanese (and written in kanjis)

[@alexanderscalzo340]

I swear after Smash Bros. Melee Roy changed as a character for realz. He’s still the noble & mellow character he is outside of battle but in battle Roy is a fierce fighter! No wonder now he is called the Young Lion!

[@Epicgamer-eb7kk]

They voted Lugia, but said Ridley is too big

[@sirmel11]

I knew I wasn't crazy. You said the cut characters would be next video yet the video came out over a month later.

[@NF_Reviews]

I still don't get why Dedede & Wario weren't in Could we get a cut Melee vid?

[@BlueJack222]

Sakurai was afraid that he will be biased towards his franchise that he created and there wasn't enough time to make Wario

[@PeruvianPotato]

​@@BlueJack222 1, 2, Oatmeal

[@SurprisedFireflies-ik4kt]

Young link is like the strongest link and still holds up to that title the dude can turn into a god for deku sake

[@gechoman44iwantahippo]

Finally, somebody else who pronounces “Melee” the way I do!

[@wellplayod1957]

Ew

[@iriwom]

@@wellplayod1957 no u

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Maylay or Muhlay😂

[@britrocks1]

Why are some characters so bad and some so good? I heard it was because a different person designed each character at the same time. Would be cool to watch a video on it.

[@GhibliNova]

Melly is my favorite Smash by far

[@porygonlover322]

I feel like Roy being Current Fire Emblem Character was definitely _a_ factor, but I wouldn't be so sure it's the only one - there just wasn't a lot of competition for the "Marth clone" slot, since the only big Fire Emblem title at the time not to star Marth, Genealogy of the Holy War, had two horsemen in the lead role. Roy's main competition would have been Alm and Leif - two fairly obscure characters from games released long after a console's prime - or a side character with a similar build like Ogma or Ayra. There was also a very fresh, very public rights dispute at the time involving Fire Emblem and its original creator, Shouzou Kaga - this may have led them to avoid anyone from the Jugdral games, which were kind of Kaga's baby (Nintendo was extremely hesitant to acknowledge them until very recently), and also meant including Roy helped signal that, hey, Fire Emblem is still a series that Nintendo was publishing new titles for, even as Kaga was releasing serial-numbers-filed-off FE titles for Playstation.

[@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269]

That Explains A Lot, Thank You!!

[@brandonwilliams6119]

It’s very intriguing and interesting to think about getting more Shozou Kaga characters. I guess that’s one of the reasons I love Marth and I’m based towards him.

[@scarffoxandfriends9401]

Just a take away for future videos. Even till the latest DLC, the 3rd parties statistically have a higher poll to jump than the 1st party characters.

[@taoufiktorchanitaoufik6977]

Sakurai and the others could've at least given Ganondorf his own special moves like what they did with Jigglypuff (AKA Purin in Japan)

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Not going to understand why Ganondorf wasn't originally planned for Melee despite placing in the Top 5 of the Smash 2 Poll.

[@yale_no]

mr. game & watch was sort of adopted by Nintendo since he appears as mr. game and watch in other Nintendo games after melee

[@waypastcoolkid]

I legit that you said Fanny Mail when you said fan e-mails

[@drsherifff]

Wait, why did you put a disclaimer?

[@audoodle9963]

Is it still a new series??

[@SueZQue83]

Missed chance for “The Clone Wars” joke

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Have we got any of confirmation of King Dedede being considered for Melee? He was one of two scrapped characters in 64, so it wouldn't make sense not to.

[@LucarioShirona]

This was explained in another video where Sakurai stated that he didn't want to put favoritism of his own series when the Melee Roster was in the works.

[@MakoShiruba]

No, DDD was only considered and worked on for 64. He was added in Brawl after the first delay happened, likely to fit with the other selected characters in that time frame.

[@myboy_]

1:34 well... That is the name of the game, what else would you call it

[@CaptainBlackBread]

How about what the announcer calls it in the intro?

[@SakuraSura]

What were adult links 2 games?

[@VelvetKitsune]

Adventure of Link might technically be considered the first one?

[@duckhive]

Brilliant!

[@enklaev1933]

Maylay vs Milee

[@nggaish]

Bowser viable move set.... What???

[@LucarioShirona]

I think the video meant that Bowser had an unique moveset protential yet seen in Smash at the time.

[@tjlnintendo]

He didn’t mean competitively.

[@the_zakster1]

*melly*

[@Horatio786]

Characters who feel like they are obvious choices that are missing: Wario, King Dedede, Diddy Kong. I can understand Diddy Kong, due to the whole Rare stuff that was going on, and that Nintendo might not have wanted to put Rare's mascot in their Nintendo-based fighting game. The other two don't really have an excuse. If I made the rosters for the Smash games, I would have had Wario instead of Jigglypuff in 64, so I would only have to replace one character with Dedede. For that, I chose Sheik, who is by far the least important character in the roster. I probably would not have bothered with clones, taking the time to do a bit of debugging instead, though if I did include clones, Ganondorf would have been replaced by Donkey Kong Jr. Also, I probably would have picked Excitebike or Duck Hunt as my NES representative instead of the Ice Climbers.

[@tjlnintendo]

Damn I disagree with shiek being replaced by another Mario character. You could argue that Wario represents his series, but he, like Yoshi, is still heavily affiliated with Mario. Also the transformation character was a cool idea. Shiek is also one of only 3 unique zelda characters. Those 3 being Normal Link, Zelda, and Shiek. After that we have 2 other Links and a C.Falcon ganon. To take away one unique character from a critical acclaim franchise and give a character related to a franchise who already is bloated with representation is hot aids imo. Ice climbers need their love and the duo style they have is still unique to them.

[@Horatio786]

​@@tjlnintendo The Wario Land series was larger at the time than the Metroid series or the Star Fox series. It deserves some content in Smash, preferably playable. Also, I would have had him in Smash 64, so he would be in the original twelve. Dedede is my Sheik replacement. While it is true that Zelda only has three unique characters and I am cutting one of them, its popularity grew to what it is today after the roster was decided. As such, Zelda does not really need a third character yet, though it will get a unique Spellblade Ganondorf in Brawl alongside Toon Link. The Ice Climbers were the cut that was the hardest for me to make. They were my main in Melee after all. I tried to choose which pick I would make ignoring the fact that the Ice Climbers are already in Smash. Either way, it comes down to Ice Climbers, Excitebike, or Balloon Fighter. Either choice is acceptable.

[@TramiNguyen-oi3kp]

Kirby is my favorite Super Smash Brothers character!

[@raphaelmarquez9650]

Wish Dr. Mario was an alt. costume instead of his own separate fighter. Mario continuity is already messed up with their time paradox-making rosters.

[@endergoldman9965]

i still think he should be an echo.

[@HJHawley7677]

There’s no such thing as Mario continuity lol. Imagine playing Mario for the lore Doc is a fun character because he’s mechanically different, plenty of people prefer one over the other. Getting rid of him would be dumb

[@darkdoctor1915]

@@HJHawley7677, I agree, besides he won't replace anyone, and it's just Mario and Dr. Mario when compared to Mario Kart 8 where there are 5 Mario's rather then 2

[@kendrick5501]

@@HJHawley7677 can confirm cause I dislike using F.L.U.D.D. and prefer using the tornado as the down b rather than F.L.U.D.D. And despite the similar moveset he and Mario share, they completely differently to the point they're actually different characters, hence Doc is not considered an echo

[@tjlnintendo]

Bruh continuity and mario lore (lol) doesn’t matter in smash. Why should it? This isn’t league of legends.