Why China Can't make Chips!

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[@serpentza]

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[@riccardocacchioli9952]

@Bogda Nov yes, but in China case they are not a minority they are the rulers

[@jamalicon1]

SerpentZA, when was the last time you were in China

[@theofficialstig]

@Bogda Nov you mean ultra nationalists/Chinese supremacists Yes there are some and it's because there are gullible people in every county and in China the government propaganda promotes Chinese supremacy

[@StephenGillie]

How does China plan to lead the world by copying others? That's like winning a race by drafting behind other drivers.

[@pakde8002]

@Bogda Novand South America, North America, the middle East, far East and South East Asia and of course Africa. They're basically everywhere.

[@mccallosone4903]

i am a teacher in China, and i agree with a lot of this. my students (ages 11-12) are very smart, and can memorize things very quickly, however, if you pose a real question that theyve never been given the answer to they struggle. there was a simple question on a test. Here is a box(pictured). What can you do with it? this melted the brains of my entire class. i explained the question. i said, you can write ANYTHING, just tell me what you can use a box for. they were confused. i gave an example, "ok, you can put pencils in it". they all wrote, put pencils in it. "no! thats an example, think of your own". they legit could. not. do it. they had never been told an answer, and were so afraid of getting the question wrong and being embarrassed, that they left it blank. it was crazy

[@From_A_Diverging_Timeline]

Crazy. I guess fear of being wrong plays a big part cuz all kids have an imagination.

[@howe4622]

Yes, so China is good at copying, because they never forget it.

[@otherssingpuree1779]

It may have happened because I have seen this happen in other Asian countries. Not the entire class but just the quiet nerds of the class with best marks.

[@paulchiuco1467]

This is our stereotype of the "inferior" races.

[@McVaio]

That's not smart, that's good memory.

[@johnburke8337]

Towards the end, I think you glossed over the big big reason why the PRC will struggle to catch up especially in semiconductors (my area of research): the research. It’s not that Chinese nationals are incapable of putting in the hard work and getting to those goals because trust me, I saw so many Chinese friends work like heck doing real impactful research in grad school. In the right setting, just like us Americans they can really shine and innovate. However, the business and research culture makes no room for these kinds of success to be nurtured. Organizations and researchers have to be able to accept reasonable failures and learn from them while crediting those who did the hard work, and the CCP and PRC work culture don’t afford that. Failures are punished so risks are avoided, glitz and shine gets promoted. And when success is made, the top vacuums all the accolades and benefits. Even compared against how Taiwan set up TSMC, the difference is stark. They took risks on EUV that were really a huge gamble. The Taiwan government probably would have let TSMC wither if it couldn’t stand up internationally on its own, so the flexibility to fail and innovate was lifeblood. The CCP is desperate not only for self reliance but also for good propaganda at every step, especially internally, and this leads to sophomore quality research at best in companies that are given crutches until the party feels too much has been wasted

[@eliasross4576]

Fortunately the CCP has a good strategy of poaching senior talent from Taiwan to help run their silicon/chip fabs. Unfortunately, the mainland Chinese government is crazy and you’re under constant threat and pressure while living there.

[@alternativeharvey7]

Great insight . Thank you

[@sara.cbc92]

Well put.

[@rubyy.7374]

@@eliasross4576 It amazes me how people still fall for it time and time again. Recently I heard of Tencent poaching a bunch of prominent video game devs, and it’s like “really”?

[@riccardocacchioli9952]

They don't do research because they can still copyright without getting punished

[@rbspider]

I worked with a Chinese woman at an American newspaper . Her assignment was to create an interactive webpage that allowed the user to click on a date and see what President Trump had tweeted on that day . She was a really nice person . When I told her that Trump would love it she got all nervous that the president would have her deported because I guess in her mind the president hadn't given her permission to make the page. I hope she wasn't a spy.

[@bishopoftroy]

that goes to show you, education trumps intelligence, pun not intended.

[@sidd_not_vicious2609]

there are so many spies from china here

[@natewoi4119]

You are ate up

[@michiellombaers3198]

I experienced that myself: In the nineties I was working for a small Dutch company that designed and build professional audio recording & editting products. The first model was a 16bit machine that was constructed around an own design DSP chip. We sold two examples to Hong Kong and after an initial period with loads of questions around the user interface and handling of the system everything went quiet. Fast forwards to 2000 and I was visiting Beijing for a trade show with our new 24bit system. During that show I heard a story that somewhere in Shenzhen there were 50 of our old systems stocked in a warehouse. After a short moment I made the connection and asked if those sytems might be missing 8 examples of a specific chip. The person who was telling that story was surprised; how could I know that? Well ... that was our own design DSP that was forged for us ... and *only* for us.

[@karlmonet]

Love it.

[@JezaJames]

Karma bitches!

[@michiellombaers3198]

@@djchristian82 We sold them two working machines and outside of our custom DSP chips all other components were standard available. So they missed 8 chips per copied machine.

[@smokescreen2146]

The truth is, Europe can't keep up with the Asians in terms of designing and making TV screens.

[@BEDINSSGUKRAINE]

Oh wow!

[@merinsan]

The problem is simple. You can't reverse engineer a manufacturing process. You can only work out what the components are, and then from there you need to work out how to make those components. With high end chips, the processes often require a knowledge of obscure physics, and a practical application of that, which has taken decades to refine.

[@chongtak]

Exactly and machines to produce what they may someday reverse engineer are equally as hard to reverse engineer and produce. It's the whole chain that they need to understand and to produce, not only the final product.

[@niyu8402]

They do have lots of knowledgeable ppl who can do the work, but the problem is that the leaders want to see the outcome right away.

[@VariantAEC]

Not true, China has IC foundries. Ever heard of SMIC? Neither have I until today (when I looked this s••• up)! But they make logic chips (CPUs). Hua Hong also makes microprocessors, maybe these processors are crud and built using older larger fabrication nodes, but they have many foundries no doubt because the rest of the world including us in the U.S. feed the demand instead of making things like this domestically. Of course Intel does make chips domestically but also in other nations. I used Wikipedia as they already have hopefully a decent aggregate dataset for this, searching directly was ironically a bit more difficult especially since I don't know what China is doing. I was able to find articles from what I would think are trustworthy tech-related media sources claiming that SMIC has made processors using 14, 10 and 8nm nodes. This doesn't speak to the quality of the chipsets, but they are already making them. Honestly I thought MediaTek chips were Chinese. I try to avoid anything made in China if I can. This is kind of impossible when it comes to buying electronics as some of the devices are assembled there and some components therein are manufactured there. We don't have a choice in where the companies we buy from choose to assemble their products.

[@niyu8402]

@@VariantAEC SMIC was sued by TSMC, accusing SMIC of misappropriating TSMC intellectual property. payment to TSMC of an aggregate of US$200 million; and a grant to TSMC 8% of SMIC's issued share capital and a warrant which would allow TSMC to obtain total ownership 10% of SMIC's issued share capital.

[@kungfutzu3779]

@@chongtak since everyone gets their manufacturing done in china, i thknk they already have the machines

[@themaxgruber]

Electronics, chip, reuse is a big problem. These parts are sold on the gray market and find their way into new equipment. Many times they are relabeled. I once had a part fail that I returned to the manufacturer. They stripped the label and found it was labeled as a 1000V part and was really 500V and had been taken from a used assembly. This is such a problem that the military now requires manufacturers to use approved vendors to build their assemblies. Our failure rates decreased significantly once we started buying from these vendors.

[@_Solaris]

That's something I've never thought about.

[@philfrydman2576]

SEG electronic market in Shenzhen is a reuse of chips from old phones and other technologies. Fake chip manufacturers will rebrand old new chips, but the die is different.

[@mikesully110]

I bought a fake Ethernet card from a Western retailer (ebuyer) that they had (unknowingly) gotten from China. It was branded as a well known make of NIC, of course it was the cheapest one listed - but it was actually a totally different NIC made by a different Chinese firm. the supplied Windows driver worked fine but when I tried the manufacturers driver in Linux the card would not work at all. I found out on the forums that it was a well known fake and was infact a totally different chinese NIC. I was able to get it to work using ndiswrapper on the supplied Windows driver, but the couple of dollars saved was outweighed massively by all the hassle getting the thing to work. And the worry of not being able to trust the damn thing. Moral of the story, it's worth paying a little bit more for good Western stuff. And it's not like the Chinese stuff is a third of the price, often it's barely any cheaper. The thing is the NIC was so damn cheap, like $15, how do these Chinese even make any money creating and selling these fake network cards? I could see it being worthwhile if they were selling a garbage 1gbps NIC as top level 10gbps enterprise kit and just hoping that most buyers won't use the 10gbps and so won't notice the fraud. But low end stuff?

[@privacyabsent904]

How recent was the updated requirement?

[@hyperturbotechnomike]

I do have a small microelectronics business, together with my russo-chinese wife and some friends in Germany and chinese suppliers sold us fake microcontrollers which were just empty housings and relabeled ECC RAM, which in reality was just regular DDR3 ram with a new sticker on it. But the biggest scam were the PCM stereo sound processors, we ordered for a project. They did appear to work at first but after a few hours of use the right channel died on all of them. At first, was a bit angry at my significant other, because she otherwise establishes good connections to chinese vendors and doesn't fall for scams, then i noticed, that even trusted suppliers can randomly become unreliable. The one which sent us the defective sound chips was very reliable for the past 10 years and now most of the things they sell are scam products. Once we had a business costumer which wanted his 386 PC repaired (it was used for a industrial scale) and the only ones which have "new" parts for this old technology are suppliers from China. They just put 30 year old chips in a new housing, but at least those weren't fake. When ordering from china, always be careful with each single order, even if you are a long term costumer.

[@omrilapidot6770]

I'm not expert on China but I've been with the (Israeli) tech industry for decades. The way to innovate is to *challenge the status quo*. To be fearless. To be able to point the mistakes of your superiors and propose new ways of moving forward without fearing retribution. From the little I know of China, this is far from their cultural norm.

[@Treasure-bl3cn]

and to steal others Land and home

[@omrilapidot6770]

@@Treasure-bl3cn 😜😜😜

[@tide7107]

@@Treasure-bl3cn Palestine to the centre, XAR to the East

[@caldinacube7490]

This video aged well… 2023 they are already making 7nm chips.

[@caldinacube7490]

Correction 5mn as of today

[@yuchan063]

My dad is a DRAM manufacture engineer working for Samsung. Five years ago, He received an email from a Chinese company asking him to come to China for 10 times his annual salary. At first, my whole family was preparing to go to China, but we canceled it after realizing that it was part of a Chinese technology-stealing project. And recently I heard that many Chinese industrial spies have been arrested in South Korea. Thanks to your video, I can see what has happened recently. Thank you.

[@siramike2654]

so what is the different between Korean and China. remember China used be the Centre for those East Asians countries in the past.

[@kooisengchng5283]

US is the biggest thief. The CIA's modus operandi is "lie, cheat, steal and kill". 40 years ago US created the Echelon, a spying system using satellite dishes with nodes all over the world. It collected INDUSTRIAL data, military data as well as personal data. In other words, it was a comprehensive spying system stealing just about everything from the world. I can go back further but you get the drift.

[@intelli_mw]

@@siramike2654 The difference is he and his family are Korean Nationals. So working at Samsung is a national pride. I'm glad you brought up China used to be the center of east asian countries in the past, in fact one could argue Ancient China was once the most technological country of the world. But that era you speak of never existed during the Communist party of China. The PRC era hasn't contributed anything to the humankind other than cheap labor, and mass genocide of its own people.

[@Imbatmn57]

My mom almost got a job in china, but she didn't want us to get stuck over there if her job didn't work out, she also worked for the us army as a programmer, idk if the china job was with the US army or not, probably good she didn't take it.

[@jotunman627]

@@siramike2654 The China of the past is Taiwan 23m and the overseas Chinese in Indonesia 7m, Thailand 9m, Malaysia 7m, Philippines 1m, Singapore 2m, and the USA 5m. Mainland China is communist, - The CCP had shed China’s past. During the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s and 1970s it sought to overturn the “four olds”: old customs, old culture, old habits and old ideas. Temples, mansions and tombstones were ravaged, along with any artifacts or people associated with the bourgeois way of life.

[@gregmcfarland5189]

Helped my understanding of why China is so adamant about Taiwan being their property

[@kurt477]

I've heard that the owners of the Chip factories said they would destroy everything in the face of China invading.

[@randar1969]

As soon as China would invade Taiwan and manages to hold on to it. ASML would no longer supply or support maintanance on their UEV machines at the TMSC factories. It's extremely hard to copy even if you posses the machine. It would also be next to impossible to repair them. The technogies involved to create them are simply not in the hands of Taiwan. Backwards engineering understanding and building would take to long to make it an worthwhile investment. Hence it wouldn't surprise me at all if those machines are targeted for destruction at the signs of an serious invasion they can always buy more if they manage to repel the invasion.

[@tiromandal6399]

@@randar1969 Yep! Even consuming Taiwan wouldn't be of much help to China.

[@janhemmer8181]

@@randar1969 neither are they in the hands of the USA. ASML machines are are the result of a remarkable, open scientific culture of the former Philips Natlab in the Netherlands. Unfortunately the Natlab no longer exists and Philips decided to stop the chip division. Almost The Netherlands lost the chipmachine industry also, however a few visionairs founded ASML and believe me nobody comes close to copying their machines. Not TSMC nor any company in the USA.

[@randar1969]

@@janhemmer8181 Dat zal ik niet weten, nouja ach we hebben Velthoven nog! Is my answer in native Dutch ;-)

[@bharthyadav6794]

who is here after Huawei and SMIC unveil advanced 7nm Processor for Mate 60 Pro

[@firestxrmrev]

laughs in 3nm architecture

[@Xarx42]

@@SirWilliamDeHooton Yawn... How do you think the 7 nm chips were built? With Chinese litographs? ^^ Little spoiler: those can only handle 28 nm for the moment ;).

[@Xarx42]

@@SirWilliamDeHooton Ah they'll surely try now. We'll see how successful it is eventually. For ASML it took them decades to get to the current point. Anyway, for a country which apparently needed 5 years to manufacture little steel balls for pens, excuse me if I am a bit sceptical regarding fast Chinese successes with the lithograph technology. ;)

[@Xarx42]

@@SirWilliamDeHooton It seems you don't know what racism actually means... Regarding the pens: didn't you watch the video? The USA imports electronics, because it's cheaper. So how the hell is it advantageous to get the mentioned steel balls from Germany, Switzerland or Japan?

[@johnmills9360]

The nano meter label has become a vague marketing description , something like the 2000 watt (pmpo) amplifier (with a 100 watt power supply) of years gone by

[@moinyp]

You nailed it! Most people around me cannot understand how economies work, let alone the much hyped Chinese economy. I’m an electronics engineer by education, and sometimes I get the feeling that you must have an engineering background to be able to somewhat understand the Chinese economy.

[@jukio02]

China is a social Democracy, their economy is social market economy. Basically, a mixed economy. It's not that hard to understand. You guys are stupid.

[@Quondom]

The central problem is that China still conceives itself as an empire, the Middle Kingdom, the center of the world. But the world has changed. It is too late for empire-building. Things are too interdependent now. A single I-phone contains parts from 43 countries, some friendly to China, some not so much. After the recent confrontation over Pelosi, China laid an embargo on imports from Taiwan, but it COULDN’T embargo advanced microchips. Taiwan is its main source. A war with Taiwan would shut down the Chinese economy within weeks. And China is not the only country that depends on Taiwanese components. By attacking Taiwan, China would create a huge coalition against itself, something Russia has already experienced in Ukraine.

[@flinch622]

Empire has changed: its energy and information now. Armies and navys arrive third.

[@Quondom]

@@plowe6751 I don't know. They did take down "Empire" from streaming. Kind of hard to censor "empire" from Chinese history. "Imperialism", however, is something only other nations do.

[@c0ya1]

@@Quondom the age of empires is behind us. The rest of the world knows, but China doesn't.

[@FreedomAirguns]

Wrong. If China takes over Taiwan, THE ENTIRE PLANET COLLAPSES...Wake up. Even the US relies on chips made in Taiwan ! The smartphone producers too! GPU producers too!!! It's a domino...And the amount of IP stored in Taiwan is HUGE...If they get there, it's game over...

[@silverhawkscape2677]

@@Quondom Tell that to Tibet.

[@GrantsPassTVRepair]

I've often thought it's odd how Chinese officials put such importance on looking good in the eyes of the world and their own citizens, as if it's a sin to admit they have any shortcomings.

[@Christobanistan]

See Chernobyl.

[@studiohq]

It's cultural, it's about "face"

[@Christobanistan]

@@studiohq It's not culture, it's what dictators and people with unlimited power have to do to stay in power. They must appear strong and infallable no matter what.

[@NafanyaZX]

Imperfection spawns alternatives via revolution. In a seemingly perfect system without alternatives, everyone is eager to shift the blame. So that the glorious core can remain perfect and safe from responsibility.

[@batboy555]

How we got the Wuhan flu.

[@oneark4129]

As a Chinese, I like to watch your video most, because you are one of the few honest bloggers I have seen on the Internet. You have really spoken out about China's problems, and the praise of other bloggers for China is too exaggerated. As a local, I know that China is not as good as they praise, and I really hope that China can really solve these problems instead of delaying to change

[@VenomRoadRacing]

I'm suprised you can even see the video. Be careful you don't go for some education.

[@Tech-cr5lw]

@@VenomRoadRacing because he is a fake chinese.

[@boiscooka232]

​@@VenomRoadRacinglil bro, trust KZbin comment 😂😂

[@VenomRoadRacing]

@@boiscooka232 More than any government lol

[@healthyhabits3374]

How a local Chinese can reach KZbin?

[@AlisoJim]

The ecosystem of high-end semiconductors is pretty much set at this point, and will only get more solid at this point, since it is in the US national interest. The Dutch and US supply a majority of the tooling needed build out the research and manufacturing capabilities. First China has to duplicate the work of companies like LAM Research, Qualcomm, Broadcomm, Intel, NXP, etc. Without that, you cannot even begin to build the infrastructure that would allow you to start making progress. If your basic machining capabilities have only recently advanced enough to make a 1mm ball bearing (or whatever size it is), you will never advance to sub-10Nm etching on your own.

[@adam9a9]

it's not so much about nm, but it's more about design.

[@jukio02]

You guys are stupid. If China can build their own space station, they can build their own chips.

[@FoquroC31]

Well, they made a sub-10Nm chip

[@Sl1pstreams]

@@FoquroC31With western equipment.

[@FoquroC31]

@@Sl1pstreams That's the point. The sanctions don't work.

[@audreylin3466]

It's worse than that -- at this point, any company who has their equipment or machines manufacturered in China, deserves to go bankrupt. Now I see why the bearings on the pumps we bought kept failing -- the metal spheres were probably salvaged and did not have the tolerance for heavy use. The US distributor gave us 5 pumps, as each failed one after another, before they finally "threw in the towel" and refunded our money.

[@mwngw]

The IT industry committed Economic Treason en masse in shutting down U.S. operations and manufacturing and sending them to China. It was far worse than short-sighted, or awful management decisions, it was outright greedlust by CEO's and Boards of Directors.

[@HoboKa_AlexShtokalko]

Pump and dumped X_X

[@Waverlyduli]

@@HoboKa_AlexShtokalko Schadenfreude?

[@flightographist]

Same issue, after the third time I asked the rep: are you sure you want to keep using that manufacturer to supply my parts? - it's costing you a fortune!

[@ahmataevo]

@@hentype - They also use clips from hollywood movies claiming to have destroyed other militaries in various skirmishes. Like claiming to shoot down India's fighter jets, but it's a film clip from Top Gun.

[@doingtime20]

This is exactly why the Taiwan issue is worrisome, China isn't just looking for a land grab, they want the technology from TSMC (the world's biggest and most cutting edge semiconductor company).

[@jamram9924]

China will be taking Taiwan with their massive naval fleet and hundreds of cheap rockets they’ll overwhelm any military due to their sheer numbers

[@siramike2654]

you are wrong. it has to do with US military present. don't forget Taiwanese are 100% Chinese.

[@jamram9924]

@@siramike2654 Have you ever heard of the China One policy? America acknowledged that Taiwan is part of China. It was previously called Formosa. Just like Hong Kong was reintegrated, the same will happen with Taiwan. Peacefully or militarily, it will happen.

[@markbutler8940]

@@jamram9924 Have you ever heard of the Six Assurances? The US never acknowledged PRC sovereignty over Taiwan and will never acquiesce to any kind of invasion of the place. We sell the Taiwanese weapons to defend themselves for a reason. It is either peaceful reunification or no reunification at all.

[@jamram9924]

@@markbutler8940 Yes. They’ve been in place since the Reagan Adminstration. Also supported throughout several administrations. We’re dealing with a much more aggressive China and a much different times. It would absolutely insane for us to believe we can travel thousands of miles over the Pacific to fight China over a tiny island called Taiwan. China, whether through peaceful means or force will take Taiwan. The West’s reliance on the cheap labor China produced created a financially and militarily strong China. Now, our politicians are surprised China wants Taiwan back? The US has overplayed its hand and countries like China and Russia aren’t going to sit idly by and watch the US influence countries in their hemisphere. We’re seeing that with Ukraine. The US/UK/Russia had an agreement regarding Ukraines loss of nuclear weapons in exchange for protection and Russia would not invade. Now we see these present set of circumstances Ukraine is living under with Russia occupation of approximately 20% of Ukraine.

[@djdeepkanga1245]

Didnt they just make a domestic 7nm that got shipped with Huawei?

[@WarSourve]

5nm

[@Sl1pstreams]

Nope. They made a Dutch 7nm that got shipped with Huawei.

[@christopersambeli2823]

this age well, huawei just made 7nm chip

[@Xarx42]

And how? With ASML machines. Even with the sanctions China is able to get lithographs which can handle 7nm. The question is: can Huawei (or another Chinese company) do better.

[@dilithsanthush267]

mate do you think taiwan and US pulls computer chips out of there ass , they use lithographs from ASML too, the computer chips are THE most complex thing humans do because of the presion needed , far more than rockets or anything (which china makes) ,they will probebly make the lithograph machine any times soon @@Xarx42

[@ryanrex297]

When you start to think about the machines that make the machines that make the machines to make high end chips, you can see the uphill battle to innovate quickly.

[@Dionyzos]

Yup, people often stop halfway and think TSCM, Intel and Samsung make the chips that are designed by Apple, Nvidia, AMD etc. But they all rely on ASML which has a monopoly on DUV and EUV machines which is in turn reliant on Zeiss for the crazy high tech mirrors.

[@amuxpatch2798]

@@Dionyzos All those high tech companies above are using applied science technology (formula given). The research (electronics) was done by Bell America telephone and also produced software C used in these devices today.

[@sentry8992]

Very true. Even the machine that makes the near perfect sphere that is in the ball point pen is a serious feat of engineering. Turning solid wire into a perfect tiny little sphere is a serious piece of machinery.

[@msimon6808]

@@amuxpatch2798 C is a real productivity killer. Forth can be developed much faster. And can be the assembly language of a properly designed chip. The RTX-2000 for example.

[@TR4R]

And at some point it becomes human... 😝🖐 the machine that makes the machine that makes the machine that ultimately needs the human hand 😛

[@anonymousanonymous-ok3nn]

I did my bachelors in a Chinese University before I came to the States. I was working in the lab doing electronic design. One day I walked into the lab next door, and I saw about 4 students. They were all probing circuit boards (some kind of commercial PLC controller) by using multimeters in continuity mode ("beep beep beep" all over the room), then they recorded the connections of PCB traces. I was told that their professor asked them to backward engineer the board, so that the professor could make a knock-off. Those students (mostly from countryside) were paid like 100 CNY/month for doing that for him, and in the name of "learning electronic design". In fairness I don't think of bad of those students since they just did what their professor told them to do. But man this kind of thing happens in university encouraged by a professor...

[@timcees]

The professor of my senior year mechanical engineering design class had our group design a boat lift that I suspect was for his buddy's marina. Probably common to exploit students?

[@sandman0123]

It all depends on the context. Technical universities often do reverse engineering as an exercise. For example, I remember an assignment when we had to analyze and explain a 709 op amp, from looking at a photo of the chip which was handed to us. While at uni, I've also done a much more complex exercise, the partial reverse engineering of a graphics chip, with layers etched off, photographing and analyzing, recreating an equivalent circuit schematic, simulating parts of the circuit/layout etc. However, at the end, this was an educational exercise and the purpose wasn't to copy and "steal" the chip. It was also a lot more fun than buzzing out the connections on a circuit board! 😁

[@Shreaadedaa]

our professor dont even go that far, they had studied a book of like 1980s era or 1990s, and they been teaching the same book for years, they have greyscale copies of those book as those book have so many editions now, they dont get printed anymore, they even ask student to redo the same projects of his own times like the ones students of 1990s might have submitted, and the same is repeated, it goes for students in engineering, medical colleges, research institutes you name it, be it a bachelor program or master or even PhD or whatever, I live in Pakistan

[@lorabex791]

How else do you learn tho? Literally you have to hack and reverse engineer in the MIT.

[@slammerlo510]

If you just think of learning and stop, think of copy and steal, you can learn.

[@jakhannew]

Time to eat humble with Kirin 9000

[@Xarx42]

Ah so China can produce lithographs which can handle 7nm? Show me. ;)

[@user-dr8wl2pu6v]

​@@Xarx42Can the United States independently produce the latest EUV lithography machines? In fact, no country in the entire world can develop it alone. I know that China can’t do it now, but that doesn’t mean it won’t do it in the future. The United States began sanctioning China 5 years ago, and no one thought that China could develop 7nm process chips, but now China has made them. , Unless through dumping, there has never been a situation in human history where technology cannot catch up. China just started late! And China is the largest semiconductor market in the world. I believe that if there is demand, there will be supply. The US sanctions have given China a reason to be self-reliant!

[@dilithsanthush267]

well said @@user-dr8wl2pu6v

[@scottshepard345]

The business model in China is to build up a promising company and then take out loans and make it look like it has a great future. At that point the owner absconds with all the funds and assumes a new identity and starts a new business. Progress in high tech requires a secure, long term foundation, which is just not going to happen in China.

[@weetbix4497]

What you described with the corruption in China regarding the chip companies sounds 100% the same as the situation we had here in South Africa with bakeries and catering companies posing as PPE producing companies and just looting all the funds.

[@saltalmighty1141]

Well , being an IT-Technician myself , Chip technology is an ongoing race .. who can produce the fastest and effecient ones , even if they start perfecting their chips based on the current day Intel/ARM/AMD chips .. they won't get it right until atleast 10 years later , and at that point .. their own home based chips will be ancient tech

[@BlazinNSoul]

What is your position on ASML? A company which nearly sold the 5.nm or so machines which China so desperately needs now? HTMC is only half the equation here. Ongoing race for sure but one we are currently loosing. What we lack in manpower we must make up in Engineering and R&D. We can't afford to be complacent anymore given our lack of human resources so to speak. What is your observations as an IT professional? :)

[@saltalmighty1141]

@@BlazinNSoul to be honest ? i wish it was all open-source , so that every company could make machines like that , may the best chips win .. and give the English saying " cheap as chips " a new meaning

[@Zuron]

For the cutting edge computers this is true, but 10+ year old architecture is totally fine for most of the stuff we use. Even cold war era stuff can make for an accurate missile or satellite.

[@flycrack7686]

@@saltalmighty1141 as a " IT-Technician" whatever that means for you, you really REALLY should know what ASML is and WHY that question really questions everything you said.

[@txorimorea3869]

True, but I am not sure if the race can keep going on when the goal post is so close. I mean the classical physical limits are unmovable and there wasn't any truly significant advance in quantum engineering, at most we got small steps. Noise is still a huge problem preventing to create quantum computers that are effectively more powerful than classical computers, and cheaper or at least more energy efficient. Maybe the race will focus on hardware to train and run artificial neural networks. That technology is noise-resistant, so sacrifice can made to increase computational power and/or reduce power consumption, at the cost of some noisy failure from time to time.

[@user-oe3lo4rq8w]

This video has aged well. They just dropped a 5nm Kirin 9006 C recently 😅

[@serpentza]

And it’s a garbage copy using western tech and imported lithography machines

[@4izm0v]

now is the time to admit you were wrong, not double down what a clown!@@serpentza

[@somewhatblankpaper1423]

​@@serpentza WELL, Well, well, I bet you haven't tested or gotten the data on the actual performances of the chips prior to calling it "garbage". That's unironically a very thorough, scientific, and rational response mister serpentza. Another mistake is that, as for the specific machines they use, I suppose there's no confirmed evidence of whether they have used Western-imported machines or that they have designed and built some other contraptions to achieve similar result. Your claim that "Why China can't make chip" is flawed. Obviously, there are many assumptions you haven't verified and taken into account when making such conclusion. It's not difficult to point out either; you haven't shown actual numbers about their whole microchip manufacturing arsenal including, the theories they know, the materials they have, the number of technicians/scientists/engineers working in the field, and all the related assets that can be related to their ability to craft chip. I don't think that you are an unintelligent individual, unlike some, if not most, of your followers, and I'd assume that you were all aware of the flaws I've mentioned above even back then. Given the hypothetical i.e. you are a intelligent and rational individual looking for easy money, I guess your videos work well to fool KZbin users who don't ponder too much and are against China; they would ultimately feed your pocket. Well, given that the general Western media is against China, as we can sees from CNN, Fox News... opinions about the country over those 5 years, making a channel that triggers those anti-China feelings would get you more clicks which would imply more profits regardless of whether you are presenting facts about the country or not or maybe some random mixtures. Well, let's assume that you might have been to China given your past clips and perhaps getting some random video clips from whatever possible correspondents you have in China or any intermediate, it's fairly simple for you to decide whether you are telling the truth or not; nonetheless, you can shape those evidence at your will, and most Westerners would still believe them as they are merely sitting in the Platonic Cave and give full faith onto someone who seems to show a bit of something that fits their narrative. Perhaps, you are sponsored by some third-parties that reap profits from you spreading rumors about China through sampling bias and hasty generalization given various unsourced clips without much context. Just a hunch, don't take it too seriously. Not sure if there are other causes for which you are doing those videos; maybe your family or life is at jeopardy if you don't? At last, good for you that people don't think too much. Perhaps you are getting your intended results. Well, at least, you have gotten some profit from me clicking on this video. But in any case, your game seems to be few steps behind of what I can see.

[@user-nr6up7xt9b]

@@serpentza Are you saying western tech and western lithography machines are garbage? How can we take you seriously anymore?

[@mastermomo4993]

the propaganda responses in these comments is insane

[@BigFish2027-9]

Chinese students studying in the United States here Dutch ASML is the only company in the world that can produce high-tech chips. Countries that are leading in the chip field, including the United States, Japan, and Taiwan, cannot complete the entire manufacturing chain of chips alone. Due to some political reasons, the United States even banned ASML's ability to provide high-tech chips to China. But just a few months ago, China finally developed a 7nm chip on its own, by the technology company Huawei. I am proud of my country.

[@user-nl4tt1yb9o]

legit, I just read about it now

[@williamdobbins3131]

I spent 5 years working at Papermate, making ball points. Pen points are not so much an engineered tech, but very much an art. We were the corporate head of point production. And there were still issues that took us a lot of talent, experience, and work to get through.

[@KlodFather]

I worked for a company that made broadcast transmitters. For years the Chinese tried to copy our units. They got the parts count and assembly right but making a transmitter work is tough because it is 50% science and 50% witchcraft LOL Anyone who knows RF tech can tell you that this statement is accurate. Yes they can make phones and other things now, but the stability of their transmitters and receivers is dependent on those imported semiconductors and only skilled hands know how to tune big transmitters so they are perfect. That is why the cutting edge solid state units are made in North America, Europe, or Japan. Others make units but not nearly as good.

[@BlackJesus8463]

@@KlodFather Your meter told you to say that.

[@sanzieu]

@@bbj7383 I agree with you. I retired from the power generation industry and as a controls guy, I used to "wave my magic wand" whenever I repaired an instrument or control device. Lots of experience and luck went into that work.

[@KlodFather]

@@sanzieu - Mine was a green pen which was very hard to find and buy... But I bought them by the box from the supply house. They always knew when I put and entry one something because it was in green. I would have loved to see you do that... and I would have been back there bowing to make it even more a religious experiens LOL. All Hail the Great Santiago Zieu... The Slayer of Sprites in the Grid. 😜👍

[@leisti]

You make a cogent point.

[@Sander-zj3wi]

The exact same happened in the DDR (German Democratic Republic) in the 80's. You could make good money on a certain chip so the DDR government pushed the electronics division to produce this chip. They did it, but by the time they could produce the chip, it could be bought in the open market for pennies.

[@resolvanlemmy]

is that West Germany or East Germany?

[@AlbaniaBoi-ud4xi]

@@resolvanlemmy East

[@resolvanlemmy]

@@AlbaniaBoi-ud4xi ok, thanks.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@resolvanlemmy that was a really really stupid question, i mean i cannot find the proper word how stupid.

[@resolvanlemmy]

@@ursodermatt8809 my questions can be as stupid as they want, I don't care, I just wanna know things.

[@jackeldogo9552]

I work as a researcher in the electronics industry. I have been hearing since 2000 that China is dumping so much govt money into semiconductors that they will catch up in the next five years. NO matter what year it is, it's always the next 5...yet they always seem to stay 5 years behind.

[@kapsi]

Sounds like they need to double the money

[@marioluigi9599]

Sounds a bit like Elon Musk. He's always ONLY 5 years or sometimes even only 2 years away from building a new civilisation on Mars. Meanwhile, his Tesla cars are killing people if people don't consciously DRIVE the cars whilst the "autopilot" feature is active ...a troll gimmick that is more useless than useful.

[@BiggieTrismegistus]

Kind of like Iran has been "six months away from having nuclear weapons" for as long as I can remember.

[@drymoper2234]

In the old days China just have to buy the chips from the west no need to make it themselves ....now that they face sanction from the west in the last few yearsfrom buying high end chips China have no choice but to try and make it in the near future ...China is (one China and one heart ❤️ stand together with same goal .

[@Afroacend]

Weird to hear an American calling the Chinese bullies and this is coming from someone who’s Congolese.

[@nichderjeniche]

First he's south african, second I think he's right with everything. Or would you disagree with anything?

[@GMC.Sprint]

Several years back, some of the Chinese railway specs mandated that couplers and drawbars must be manufactured in the US or EU. These are components where a failure can be deadly. Other (less safety critical) components in the spec mandated they be made in China.

[@jbeck66]

at least whoever was writing those specs seems to have been making intelligent decisions, instead of throwing safety out the window.

[@danharold3087]

Yes. Funny. There is a propaganda channel. Hot Topic Time. They made an episode to dispute this.

[@echomande4395]

I would imagine that quality control (or lack thereof in the PRC) would be a large part of such a mandate. Undoubtedly tovu-dreg and its mentality, counterfeit and substamdard materials do not limit themselves to building and infrastructure construction.

[@shadowbanned5164]

New Zealand updated their loco fleet from China after 3 years of service one of the DL locos from China had an alternator failure...These are sealed units that are supposed to last 20 years of around the clock use...Kiwi fitters took the alternator apart and found inside a German bearing that had melted to slag...Samples of the bearing were sent to the German bearing makers who found it wasnt one of their bearings even though it had their stamp on it...It was a Chinese copy being passed off as a German bearing...The Locos also arrived in New Zealand with asbestos for sound proofing even though that was specifically banned from the build once again the Chinese had taken short cuts.

[@philfrydman2576]

And they had 2 colliding high speed trains (Wenzhou train collisionin 2011). We still don't know the root cause, European tech badly redesigned to improve performances or railway track safety technology.

[@kiaroscyuro]

They can steal all the IP in the world and poach the best engineers, but they will never make chips from the advanced nodes because too many peope are cha bu duo. They dont understand that you need to be perfect, from the refining of materials, to the manufacturing of machine parts, and the construction of the facilities. They need to develop extensive procedures and maintenance schedules and make sure everyone involved follows them to the letter. I haven't even mentioned the design of the chips themselves! The most advanced semiconductor manufacturing machines are banned from being sold to China. Even the CNC's used to make the parts for those machines are banned. They got a hold of a machine and completely took it apart in a warehouse and invited us over to look at it. They said work with us or we will reverse engineer this and make our own. We all laughed because we knew how hard it was to make this thing, we knew even if they put it back together exactly as they took it apart it would never work again

[@JCmeister9]

They don't understand all the nuances that comes with such precise manufacturing and engineering. This is because they never had to do the R&D that is necessary to find out what it takes to make all these advanced hi-tech products. They think they can just steal and reverse engineer the products once they get a hold of them.

[@orlock20]

Also there is no incentive to build a plant because some bully would just take it away.

IP is no property but State-granted monopoly. And if it isn’t property, it can’t be “stolen.”

[@JCmeister9]

@ You can redefine its meaning all you want, but that doesn't mean it can't be stolen. That's why there are laws specifically made to protect it.

[@guitarista666]

@ Based on the quality of your logic, I can see why you have no regard for the worth of IP. You'll never have an idea that anyone would bother to steal.

[@ILIVEAGOODLIFE]

This didn't age well.

[@tronwars7130]

This guy must feel really dumb considering Huawei just released the Huawei 5G mate 60 pro that the US government is in a panic over.

[@asmodeuso6]

Manufactured by their own lithography process?

[@jamix203]

@@asmodeuso6 Yes! Dude

[@Noxis07]

If a country's military has to heavily rely on espionage and theft to replicate their enemy's superior designs, then what does that say about the rest of the country's technology sector?

[@TsoiIzAlive]

it says its run by people with the intellect and foresight of a 10 year old

[@vueport99]

@@TsoiIzAlive this is because the foundation of the country was based on burning books and persecuting the intellectuals

[@h.mandelene3279]

That's why i find china funny - they say they have top technology but they had to copy it to get it. So how can they be leaders of tech when they have to copy it from everyone else???

[@vueport99]

@@h.mandelene3279 because they have selective memory loss. Just like how they keep telling the world Taiwan is part of China. And yet In the past 70 years not a single China leader has set foot in Taiwan. And Taiwan has their own passport that allows them access to a FAR greater list of countries without a VISA whereas the "powerful" country needs visa for almost every country worthwhile to visit! Go figure

[@ranaashhad8040]

@@h.mandelene3279 Your knowledge of China is 20 years old. Learn to update your mental software.

[@RP-ks6ly]

As a former Oil and Gas downhole technology Manager and QA, our Chinese counterparts (Beijing) were ALWAYS asking us to send them our tools. We created a system whereby they could remotely communicate (for software development) with tools that never left our facility so there was never a chance that they could steal and reverse engineer the technology.....

[@user-cl9px6kz4i]

A serpent is speaking.

[@hollowman9410]

@Geographer Sudoku Source?

[@deanronson6331]

@@user-cl9px6kz4i You're probably referring to yourself as a member of the She Gin Ping Pong troll army.

[@shardator]

@@user-cl9px6kz4i why, you want to steal stuff?

[@strawberry3500]

@Right for Opinion what an ironic name.

[@johnl691]

Hey, Winston, what do you think of the 7nm chip from SMIC that's almost as fast as the latest chips from Qualcomm? 🤭

[@musafawundu6718]

He was busy suggesting that it was fake... He then went on radio silence...

[@Thegoldmine1]

China seems to be making good chips now

[@Xarx42]

Yes, with machines from ASML. With their own litographs they can only manage 28 nm for the moment.

[@musafawundu6718]

​@@Xarx42, shifting the goal posts, huh? Because the blacksmith does not produce all the tools that he uses to forge an excellent knife does not mean that knife is not excellent. Keep that same energy for South Korea and Taiwan...

[@nonnoyobisnis8705]

Just today I met a person who works for ThyssenKrupp in Munich and he told me that they are servicing the Transrapid magnet rail train that is running between Shanghai and Shanghai airport. I thought that "China" had taken over the magnet rail project, but he responded: "Nah, we built it and we are the ones who keep it running."

[@helgaioannidis9365]

Yes Germany is full of hidden champions, small or medium sized enterprises that are highly specialised in the production of products of extremely high quality that nobody else worldwide can produce. Same for Switzerland and the Netherlands.

[@WanderingWeirdly]

I used to bring my own ballpoint pens to China when I lived there. I wrote a lot, and the locally produced ones drove me mad with the inconsistent inkflow.

[@Mirpurmad]

lol China is not that bad. maybe you had a bad experience.

[@johnkoh5207]

Another China hater spotted

[@xx_jason_blaze_it_xxy1837]

@@Mirpurmad you do know he's talking about pens, right?

[@johnhoward5954]

The Chinese have never done ant R and D. All they do is reverse engineering and making dupes. Should be ashamed of themselves.

[@johnhoward5954]

@@Mirpurmad China sucks to say the least.

[@hav1byte]

how do you feel about Huawei?

[@christopersambeli2823]

this video age well, kirin 9000s

[@homedeezyfasheezy5662]

A personal friend of mine works for Applied Materials in Austin TX. Currently they are working 60+ hours a week manufacturing a device that is used in the process of making micro chips. They are expected to almost double production over the next year. Applied Materials tried to move their operations to various SE Asian countries about 10 years ago but were unable to do so mainly because of the poor quality of work.

[@amuxpatch2798]

Asians by default are copycats of western products and Russian military hardware. Monkey see , Monkey do .

[@stefanbanev]

@@GTKdje3 Well, no need to сast pearls before swine...

[@NP1066]

What does that have anything to do with China? SE Asia is a different region. Are like just trying to shit on Asians in general lol

[@willong1000]

That's encouraging. What would be even more encouraging is for Western firms to quit off-shoring all together, or at least do so for high-technology products.

[@Dragonologist]

This Applied Materials manufacturer sounds like a good investment opportunity.

[@wickermanauthor4828]

Thanks for another great video, Serpentza. The ball point pen is an excellent example of how far behind China is compared to the high tech of the West. In 1981, I went on a trip to Hong Kong, Macau, and Guangzhou City in mainland China. I joined a tour group, about 50 people, made up of 1/3 Aussies, 1/3 Kiwis, and 1/3 Americans (including me). We left from Hong Kong on a boat that sailed up the Pearl River to Guangzhou. This tour was conducted by mainland Chinese and they decided where we would go in the city. We had to stay with the group the entire time and were bussed around to the places they wanted us to see. We were not allowed to wander off on our own. One of the places they picked to show us was a small commune farm a short bus ride from the city. When I saw this farm, I could not believe it. I was expecting a Potemkin Village type of farm. You know, a show case farm that is nothing like the real farms. I am not exaggerating when I say that it consisted of a square of primitive mud huts with dirt floors that surrounded a Pig Sty! No joking. The entire middle square was a pig sty that you entered as soon as you walked out of the front of the mud huts. The poor people who lived there were barefoot and dressed in filthy rags that appeared to have never been washed. They were very friendly and smiled at us although we couldn't communicate with them. The children sang and danced for us while one of them played an accordion. It was a very touching experience. After they finished, one woman on the tour took a ball point pen out of her purse and held it out for the kids to take. They all mobbed her and frantically grabbed at the pen. They were so aggressive, I was afraid they were going to hurt her. But one of the bigger stronger kids wrestled the pen away from the others and the lady was unhurt. I was astounded. 1981 and they regarded the pen as if it was a precious diamond. I will never forget that experience.

[@Saavik256]

Believing anything the CCP say can be a bit of a trick, but it's a one-trick pony.

[@adolfolerito6744]

Wow, what a story! It reminds me of the prepared tours that the North Korean government usually does, only done in an even more half-assed way... Anyway the saddest part of all this is how incapable they are to rebel, how much they still love the totalitarian government that treats them literally like worthless garbage. And that’s not even a “CCP issue”, because even during the entire “century of humiliation”, a part of the Chinese population was able to rebel ONLY because foreigners could be blamed for the Empire’s problems (and still only “some” of them rebelled)... this makes you completely lose any hope with China, cementing the impression that their government can abuse them as if they are in Hell itself, only for the people to thank the government for abusing them....

[@dodieodie498]

Imagine what would have happened if the woman had taken out a box of Crayola markers.

[@lukeperry3648]

You know it's 2022 right? China has come a long way since 1981.

[@Saavik256]

@@lukeperry3648 Did anyone tell China that ?

[@pubgjan7912]

😂😂😂 what a comedy

[@vibranthappyhealthy6837]

That has aged really well.

[@iqbalbhq6884]

Bro this channel only do 1 thing Anti china propaganda 😂

[@percyjackson5017]

Why, what happened?

[@Zenniverse]

I spent 3 years in the semiconductor industry, and the factory they tried opening in China to do our job just could not compare despite having newer equipment and more support.

[@Conan-ny1um]

They used lithograph tech from 80’a Here is what was wrote -Duplicating the TSMC N7 process must have been hard, expensive and high priority. But it leads nowhere. What we see when we pop that chip open is not a scarfy future, but a tiny white elephant bathed in deep ultraviolet. China is learning to build the world's finest propeller engine, just as its competitors enter the jet age. Admire the effort, but don't cash in your chips just yet.

[@Michael-Archonaeus]

@@Conan-ny1um "China is learning to build the world's finest propeller engine, just as its competitors enter the jet age." I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[@minsoonang7425]

If what u say is true why US need to stop worldwide countries from using China 5G. They already sanction advance chips yo be sold to China. Without advance chips all 5 G equipments cannot be assembled or manufacture anymore. Unable to manufacturing all the 5 G equipments how China able to selling 5G systems to those who support China 5G? If advance chips is manufactured in USA why USA till now still struggling to build a proper 5 system to compete with China. Your facts just hold no water

[@Conan-ny1um]

@@minsoonang7425 It’s well published my friend ! There’s over 20 articles on it.

[@rain4279]

Alot of false information from someone saying he knows tech (the video maker), even though china is still behiend the likes of TSMC and Samsung? it's just dishonest to say that they arn't advancing, they are about a decade behind, which we all know that isn't a huge difference knowing that chip manifacturing is heldback, the performonce gained each generation is becoming lower and lower and the difficulty of manifacturing is harder and harder, and the coast is soaring for these chips, and we all know that making something from scratch is way harder than making something that was made before, so it's just a matter of time for china to catchup.

[@Ritzysportsf1.]

Slap in the face. They unveiled the new 7nm chip.

[@Xarx42]

And why don't you ask yourself the question how Huawei was able to do so? With a Chinese lithograph?^^

[@wutangtang8590]

@@Xarx42 but whats your point, you know this lithography isn't made by China? with your logic, no any country/area can make chip since TW/SK/US/EU/JP all need import semiconductor equipment from others, is that what you're saying?

[@miko-oki]

But with European technology

[@monirbabu8605]

Expecting a follow up video after huawei 7nm chip.

[@Xarx42]

Why ffs? Where do you think the machines came from to produce those chips?^^

[@painz1514]

@@Xarx42china made it by itself so stfu

[@ulrichleukam1068]

@@Xarx42 They invented themselves! They managed to build a space station, developed their own rocket etc why should they not eventually manufacture their own advanced chips?

[@anakinskywalker4949]

​​@@ulrichleukam1068 the answer is Racism! These guys think Chinese people are fundamentally inferior to them! They think there is some creativity ceiling that Chinese people can't break through!

[@PenTheMighty]

The #1 reason for a lack of innovation in China is a result of the concept of "face"; Chinese people do not want to fail. This creates a gigantic problem, because innovation requires failure, setbacks, and teething troubles. A great example of this is aircraft carriers; another thing China is hungry for. It took decades of trial and error for Western powers to develop the aircraft carrier, along with improving the ships to the point that they could sail in blue water across the ocean. Sure, China can copy older designs or refurbish carriers that were already built but building your own carrier, suited to your own naval doctrine, experience, and expertise is much more difficult and takes generations to develop. And there were many failures in regards to testing carriers. Plenty of US pilots died testing new aircraft and attempting to land them on carriers, as well as hundreds of crew members. Some of these lesson were learned the hard way, in actual combat, where mistakes cost lives and material. Chinese officials are terrified of failing, thus they never feel the freedom to think outside of the box. In the CCP, failure means you're living on borrowed time and will probably be fed to the wolves sooner or later.

[@ipanesm]

@@hanfucolorful9656 the india made the incredible feat of having their first rocket NOT crash, amazing, all the other "supercountries" failed at that

[@rjbz554]

good love to hear this, why evil fails its called pride in the bible

[@PenTheMighty]

@@hanfucolorful9656 China, if properly governed, would be the richest and most powerful nation on Earth. They have the resources, rare earth metals,.and even the ability to manipulate their own currency. They still fail.

[@PenTheMighty]

@@ipanesm True. It was truly an impressive feat. Hats off to India, they beat the odds and achieved something great.

[@k3rc4]

The short answer to the question is corporate espionage, but then again everyone knows that...

[@phangirlable]

Fun fact: the US has been doing this to Germany for decades. At least the Chinese don't do much to hide it.. XD

[@pakde8002]

Corporate, political, social and academic espionage. They spy on it all.

[@niccosaur7778]

Can I read the other reply, KZbin , you scumbags?

[@MostIntelligentMan]

what fucking espionage, they make everything, everything is made in china, do they copy? yes, but they dont need no espionage, just change label

[@extrememiami]

It says 5 comments to this post Aljaz K, , yet none show up. China trolls commenting here? Shadow bam I guess?

[@user-gz6qi6rq8c]

Thank you a lot for your informative video and as always foryour well structured and clear discussion

[@jawadmansoor6064]

I love your content. You are a good man with great insight. I am very thankful for opening my eyes about corruption that had always been there but never highlighted.

[@SwordFighterPKN]

China is so high tech they don't have drinkable water out of the tap in those sky scrapers, that's just nuts

[@peter4Flags]

Your definitely on the ball there S .Thank you, interesting .🙏

[@dattebenforcer]

Making chips isn't all that hard though, all you need is potatoes, oil, and salt.

[@shubhamtiwari7802]

😂

[@dvrrwd307]

It always brightens my day when I hear how an Authoritarian Dictatorship is failing. Keep bring the good news.

[@steverobertson6393]

There's noting in there about the sham of American Democracy. Confused as to Authorita- ah. China. You meant China. I was thinking, ya know. U S

[@dvrrwd307]

@@ms-jl6dl No I don't and you know I don't. The CCP is who I'm talking about. Go troll someplace else.

[@ranaashhad8040]

@@dvrrwd307 China is anything but failing imo. Copium is a medicine that americans inhale which prevents them from exploding thinking about China's rise.

[@cube6687]

you mean USA? they literally bomb countries and their reason is wrong intelligence 😆

[@adgjmptpwpjm123]

@@ms-jl6dl cry some more tankie

[@costa2k1]

One of the weekly uploads I look forward the most

[@newaulk]

They just made 7nm chips in the Huawei,Mate 60. 🎉HAH, TAKE THAT!!!!

[@codejunkes4607]

And a tiny country that is much less powerful than China, i.e. Taiwan, can create 3 nm Chips on a much larger scale while China, whose economy is much much bigger than Taiwan, can not make the same!

[@nmjjlei8753]

@@codejunkes4607 while can the America do chip manufacturing as taiwan？

[@codejunkes4607]

@@nmjjlei8753 IBM created 2 nm chip already and for mass production TSMC is creating farms in USA.

[@nmjjlei8753]

@@codejunkes4607 so,you can't do mass production as TSMC right now? such a joke laughing at China

[@swordofdurga]

By 1992, Indians had developed their first indigenous pen tips. This was indeed a victory in it's own way because after this India became one of the manufacturing bases for pens and an export powerhouse. (From an article in a site called druxport). Maybe, just maybe India may get to the chips podium before the Chinese even after a slow start 😊

[@durianepicurean]

That "maybe" has turned into a definitely not. Because just a couple of months ago Huawei produced their own 7nm chips. Which is only about 3-4 years behind the latest Snapdragon chips.

[@onlinechaosgremlin]

That is why they want TSMC. Evil cannot create, only corrupt.

[@alicehu4810]

You are totally right about the tech industry. Taiwan’s TSMC is the only company produce 90% of the world advanced chips

[@HermanWillems]

And fully relies on Europe and other western parts of the world. Before 1 chip is made. Thousands and thousands of high end western companies have worked together to make it a reality. It's a combination of companies together with the excellent expertise of TSMC. For me Taiwan is a country.

[@user-yj7zn9vb1n]

fake news

[@alicehu4810]

@@user-yj7zn9vb1n you are not doing your home work before replying., say no more!

[@user-yj7zn9vb1n]

中国不造圆珠笔滚珠只是因为市场太小，没有必要

[@Herobox-ju4zd]

I'll see your Taiwanese TSMC and raise you a Dutch ASML.

[@Ozymandias1]

László Bíró, the inventor of the ballpoint pen, wasn’t even alive in 1888. He was born in 1899. And the ballpoint pen only came into common use after WWII.

[@JUstbeNatural-fk8xy]

he forgot that the Taiwanese are Chinese too n he said China is unfriendly but it was the US who decided too be hostile to China

[@pmshah1946]

Way back in 1976 I saw a swiss multi station machine in Chicago machinery exhibition doing just this. Machining and manufacturing the ball point pen tip and assembling it with the ball. It was way beyond my financial capacity but I was absolutely awestruck by the precision and speed at which it operated.

[@smo-king6504]

was that before or after chinese economical spies would take photos of everything

[@edmondgreen7970]

I love watching high speed manufacturing. The idea of the amount of time and energy put into a machine that can quickly put together something that most of us don't even give a second thought it insane. I don't see China catching up in this regard anytime soon.

[@xminusone1]

Swiss.

[@thefeatheredfrontiersman8135]

The ball in the pen tip is tungsten. It's a very small amount but if you have a ton of pens it's worth it to clip the balls out. It reduces friction and the ink rolls off instead of sticking. Now you know the secret of the ball point pen

[@gordonwelcher9598]

They will find a cheaper material that does not last long.

[@enginerdy]

The issue the Chinese manufacturing had was the tolerances required to prevent them from leaking. Tungsten is difficult to machine anyway, and this is a very tightly toleranced and very highly spherical part.

[@freedomdude5420]

That’s irony for only one reason china is the biggest producer of tungsten in the world.

[@MrDosonhai]

@@freedomdude5420 It's easy to mine natural resources, what differentiates the West from the world is that they add so much value to those natural resources. That's why they're rich. Anyone who claims they got rich just from invading other countries, and harvesting their natural resources should look at how much stuff in their house was invented in the West.

[@freedomdude5420]

@@MrDosonhai I was referring to also that they have the biggest deposits in the world, but then again you are at right in some degree there a lot of countries with good resources but don’t have a way to make stuff with the materials it’s kind of an art. One thing I hate about countries with rich resources is it’s easy for the country becoming a dictatorship it’s when the country has to be forced with medium to low resources when a dictator loses power completely I don’t know why.

[@nufosmatic]

I travel between Northern Virginia (home) and Boston (HQ) frequently with frequent delays at Logan. I get to chat up people who are also delayed. A few years ago I would frequently meet engineers and executives headed to Chyna to fix problems. One person was telling me about a toy manufacture that was having problems with bubbles in the injection molding process. I said “the die temp is too high for the material”. The person responded that they understood and clearly I understood, but their Chinese vendor could not keep a person on the process who had authority to keep it working properly.

[@theonlinecrunch7874]

Awesome videos my Guy!

[@jadenephrite]

Regarding modern ballpoint pen technology, the anti-gravity ballpoint pen was invented by American Paul C. Fisher in 1965 which could write in outer space, upside down or any angle in temperatures ranging from -50 to 160 degrees Fahrenheit. The famous Space Pen could write on surfaces as soft as butter to as hard as steel.

[@spitgiezer]

All the millions that went into developing the space pen, while the russian just used pencils

[@jadenephrite]

Ultimately Russian cosmonauts switched from using grease pencils to the Fisher Space Pen.

[@spitgiezer]

@@jadenephrite …. Yes, and the russians ended up buying those pens for hundreds of dollars in bulk, rather than waste millions in reinventing the wheel. I know the fisher pen has all of the marvel in the world, i used to own one in college, but i highly doubt using a pencil instead of those space pens was going to be the difference between a successful mission and one that ended in catastrophe

[@Manteo1984]

@@spitgiezer you don’t want your computer components bathed in graphene …

[@Humbulla93]

@@Manteo1984 it´s not graphene but graphite, though it´s also electrically conductive so the result remains the same

[@Kulumuli]

A former collegue of mine told me of one chinese manufacturer the company were considering. Their web page looked very professional with pictures of what looked like a high tech manufacturing plant. So he went there to survey them. It turned out that their 'factory' didn't even have four walls. And of course looked nothing like the pictures on their website.

[@TMsonjakopp7006]

Ya bro I mean all them buildings in China are like made from cardboards. I bought one of them $5 Phone off wish the other day and I only got a cardboard printout. So it must be true.

[@daysgone3950]

Huawei: LMAO, I still have some engineers and money.

[@Xarx42]

... and access to 7nm lithographs from ASML...

[@henrya.1755]

Thanks for the insight on this topic, thank you.

[@matthewbanta3240]

I had an interesting conversation with a Chinese engineer once. He showed me some of the calculus problems you need to solve just to study engineering in China. I have a US Masters degree in engineering but I couldn't solve any of those problems by hand. It sounded like in China the emphasis was on solving impossible math problems while in the US it was about answering questions. Why don't we do it like this? What is the science behind that? It felt like what US engineers lost in being able to solve tough math problems we gained in understanding the fundamentals of what was going on, being creative, and being able to fly by the seat of our pants more.

[@stefanbanev]

Why? Because it's an unresolvable dilemma, USA wants to have a well controllable lectorates yet it would like to have an innovative engineers and these two goals are not compatible; China does not care about lectorates it cares only about quality of engineers... there is no universal solution and evolution/natural-selection resolves this mess nicely, we are doomed to deal with existing and we have no chances to deal non-existing such trivial circumstances of reality lays down the basis for evolution...

[@hans3331000]

Engineer here as well, and i have something to add as well. It's quite complicated but also abstract. I wasn't the top performing student in my canadian university, but for some reason, those of us with creativity always beat the "smart" students who were really good at solving problems. Unfortunately for them, it was all book knowledge. Unfortunately for them, they never realized how the real world works. How adding 5 decimal points after a temperature measurement would cost millions in equipment, how being overly ambitious with thesis projects and delivering nothing in the end was worse than doing something modest and working to build up your skills. I'm always able to use my creativity and skills to be practical about things. Clients don't like over-conservative analysis, nor do they like incompetence, so it's a fine balance. I always seem to have to defend and argue the "smart" colleagues i have because they genuinely cannot think outside the box, and that can cost us bids. In the end, solving triple integrals and PDEs by hand means nothing. A computer will solve it for you, and it's really just an intermin step in the METHODOLOGY of problem solving that's important. It will also involve risk and CCP hates risk. Who in their right mind would innovate under those circumstances?

[@jerryp2433]

They have a billion people. They are more interested in weeding mediocre people out of college.

[@caribeskinner6290]

That's what we would call an "Academic". We had professors who were good at solving problems in the book but had issues when it came to applying it to real life.

[@aoeu256]

@@hans3331000 is it that the ccp hates risk, or that China is landlocked and lacks natural resources and their trade routes can easily blocked so there are more important things to do before Chinese can innovate

[@firewarrior776]

Man, I've been following your content for years now. Still excellent. Stay awesome.

[@madjimms]

Its actually nice to see soo many people reusing electronics instead of just throwing them away like in the US.

[@tambristola8098]

If you have nothing to say can you just enjoy the video lol

[@marcusantoniusAfterDark]

😂 Please boy… Troll or just joking?

[@nelitatrahan7001]

Have a great understanding now.. Thank you!.

[@channelshmanel9882]

I've had Chinese companies make many parts for me over the years, and the thing that has flabbergasted me is how they seem to have absolutely no concept of tolerances. There are many parts that simply will not work if it is made too big or too small by half of the thickness of a human hair (and of course much less than that in things like chips and ballpoint pens). A big part of engineering is deciding what the tolerances should be. Even in cases where the Chinese are using a process that is easily capable of maintaining a particular tolerance on a drawing, and their measuring instruments are fully capable of verifying it, they are routinely out of spec. They just care if it looks right to the naked eye. Even if they did care, tolerances cannot be determined for parts that they reverse engineer.

[@MultiWarbird]

Shut up Angloid.

[@KORTOKtheSTRONG]

neat

[@TMsonjakopp7006]

Factsss man. I bought one of them 5 dollar iPhone off wish and it was only a cardboard printout. I bet all the skyscrapers in China is made of cardboards man. Not to mention, They launched like a space station even though we all done space don’t exist.😂

[@BeesKneesBenjamin]

That's funny, at the company I work for every now and then we outsource some milling and lathing for small badges to China... We've never had tolerance issues, they have been super consistent. When you are willing to pay for high quality prices, you get high quality parts. If you're trying to cheap out and pay them little, you're going to get a crappy piece.

[@highping1786]

The thing I noticed was that they didn't care about long term relationships. They would make a sale and cut corners knowing my hardware was going to fail to make a quick buck, not caring about the opportunity to make future sales.

[@GhettoWagon]

More PC parts are being made or "finished" outside of china these days which I think is a good move. Alot of the products I owned in the past made in China are now made in Vietnam, Mexico Taiwan, Malaysia etc.

[@michaelg4158]

Not really, I flipped my Acer laptop which I bought in 2022 and look at the bottom label it says Made in China. The reality is they're still made in China, not Vietnam or Mexico. Not just laptop, my ASUS RTX 2080 graphics card, my Logitech mouse, my Logitech keyboard, my Cisco wireless router, my TP-Link wireless router, are all made in China.

[@GhettoWagon]

@@michaelg4158 I SAID MORE i said not all. Acer is cheap. All laptops are chinese made. RTX 2080 is old. 3000-4000 series alot are made outside of china. Your point is just not there.

[@michaelg4158]

@@GhettoWagon obviously it's not all. I mean all computers are still made in China for example branded laptop like Acer, Lenovo, HP and Dell and custom brand Cooler Master PC case, Asus motherboard, Gigabyte motherboard, MSI motherboard are still all made in China. Even my friend's Gigabyte RTX 3080 is also made in China.

[@jasonshen5215]

Hush! You got huawei's slap.

[@zazu9117]

"Think tank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) has published an update to its Critical Technology Tracker, and asserted that China has taken the lead in research on 37 of 44 critical or emerging technologies."

[@user136002]

There is no catching up. It took 5 years to catch up to a technology that has been stagnant for the last ~100. Chip manufacturers are constantly improving.

[@BruceCarbonLakeriver]

but many big companies are literally selling out to China, that's the problem I see! :S

[@victorye7150]

It don't need to be. China has the power she can take what she wants. Taiwanese TMSC going no where.

[@Thrill98]

@@victorye7150 like russia thought it can take but failed

[@user136002]

@@victorye7150 Lol, keep dreaming.

[@victorye7150]

@@Thrill98 lmao Russia is winning.

[@xdxdsheep]

Not to invalidate your point, i totally agree with you. However, you do kind of underestimate the difficulty of making the ball for ball pens. The machinery and precision that go into making a perfect steel ball are insanely difficult to produce.

[@lordoftheflings]

no he isn't. he is just saying, imagine, if they still have trouble making ball point pens, imagine how far behind they are in making things that are at the nanometer scale. some of our most advanced quantum chips have components that are just a few atoms in size

[@aj777mc8]

huawei mate 60 pro disagrees.

[@mikespallino376]

Great information. Thanks again

[@sentry8992]

It's not just the little metal ball. It's also the chemistry of the ink. The ball has to move around in a socket and allow the ink to flow while simultaneously not allowing the ink to just flow onto the paper.

[@dimamash1575]

LOL cmon what is that cope you really think that takes 5 years?

[@sentry8992]

@@dimamash1575 Why don't you get going on your own formulation and report back. Show us how long it takes to get right.

[@HustlerEli]

@@sentry8992xcept that he isn’t a government that collects tax from 1.5 billion people and boasts a GDP of over 17 trillion USD only behind the U.S

[@jukio02]

So, China had problems developing the ballpoint pen, who cares. Which other countries will be able to do build the ballpoint pen on their own? China has their own space station, I don't see any country with their own space station. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[@sentry8992]

@@jukio02 You asked who cares? China cares. The Chinese government recognizes how important developing such capabilities are. That's why they undertook the challenge. The same with the space station and computer chips.

[@Uradamus]

I wonder if them coming up with their own ball point pen tip is why ball point pens have generally been trash the past couple of years. Stuff like the classic cheap Bic pens have all been garbage the past few years, often times with multiple dead pens in a new pack and the few working ones dying shortly after starting to use them.

[@robertagren9360]

The company makes the order and factory creates it.

[@actionjksn]

Right I've noticed that too.

[@tomlopez7819]

It's been that way for so long now, I've come to the conclusion that my body has some strange kind of electromagnetic thing going on that breaks ball point pens whenever I touch them.

[@Compertz]

Maybe China needs another 5 years development time to actually get it right

[@VariantAEC]

@@tomlopez7819 I do that to LEDs and nuclear weapons.

[@janhofste7581]

The high-tech chip machines are gigantic devices with very complicated techniques and are only made in the Netherlands by ASML. Very simple: At the request of America, China is on the trade ban list for the most modern chip machines.

[@filipinaspeopleandculture2786]

Awesome review thanks

[@brooks274]

I work in a chip fab, and to make chips, you need the tools, which constantly need maintenance and new parts, and a global supply chain of materials, like gases, metals, chemicals. China can't make their own semiconductor tools, and the ones they do make are 20yr behind.

[@charlesfavell3350]

Taiwan 🇹🇼 is a Great Country With Freedom and rights

[@NikkiMcMistie]

yeah no

[@williamwongkimping3998]

DieWan country my ass😂😂😂

[@TangomanX2008]

Right on, Charles!

[@Rich7714]

It is indeed! I used to live there

[@Sparky_D]

Unfortunately China is going to try very hard to take over and I fear they will succeed.

[@jarnokuosa9968]

Thank you serpentza! You do a great job of stating the facts. You are great human being.

[@McVaio]

Very interesting! I didn't know this.

[@Teh_Zig]

I have many stories of engineers I know having their board designs stolen by people and mass produced, often while being substantially cheaper they just don't work, they couldn't get the software right. One guy took backer money, and submitted his designs to a factory only to never hear back from them after they took the money and mass produced his board under a different name. He tried to pay the backers back, but ultimately wasn't able to and took his own life.

[@hyperturbotechnomike]

This is why i only order components in China and let the PCB's assembled in my home country. I would never send a full PCB design to a chinese supplier. Only stupid engineers would do this.

[@mrssousou7785]

This is horrible. Capitalism in a nut shell.

[@ZSleepingDragonZ]

He didn't sign a contract with the factory before submitting his designs?

[@Waverlyduli]

@@mrssousou7785 Nice try, CCP slow bot. The topic is China's incapacity to invent or innovate. Concentrate.

[@joshuasmith2814]

@@mrssousou7785 You're a nut... how is theft related to Capitalism?

[@sanderdeboer6034]

TIP: Have you heard about the secret police stations China has here in the Netherlands and probably all around the EU? The Dutch government has released a statement that at least 25 ‘police stations’ run by the Chinese are present in the Netherlands. Maybe a topic for a video!

[@Tackleberry666]

And what has been done about it?

[@sixels5550]

@@Tackleberry666 Nothing at the moment haha.

[@dylangarrison7358]

they have also been found in Canada

[@sanderdeboer6034]

China has obviously denied the claims and calls them ‘overseas servicestations’. However there is many evidence including witness statements from Chinese dissidents who live here in the Netherlands, and who were taken hostage in those ‘servicestations’. Currently the dutch foreign ministry is conduction an investigation into this case, and use the outcome to take appropriate actions. Maybe the Chinese ambassador will be forced to leave or something, similar to what often happens with Russian diplomats. Not sure if anything more will be done, however probably not.

[@pipo1768]

china made iphone ipad foxconn you idiots stupid poop shit bull shit white western west peoples

[@lawrencenannes4260]

Just imagine where does all these robbed phones in south africa vanish to??😢

[@serpentza]

Shenzhen

[@justwhenithought]

Great presenation by using ball-point pen as an example and broadened it to semiconductor. Well done.

[@michaelglenning5107]

This revelation of how much effort and knowledge goes into manufactured items is a testament to how co-operation benefits us all. If every country decided to make there own ball point pen, it would be a massive redirection of effort, duplicating something that's already been accomplished. We all rely on each other, much to the regret of the world's dictators.