Why China is winning the EV war

[@bu3bu4]

When the U.S. is less competitive than its rivals, "free trade" becomes "national security."😂

[@tooltalk]

China shouldn't have banned foreign battery makers to shield and protect CATL/BYD from IP theft enforcement since 2016.

[@PASH3227]

I'm a fan of free trade and for that reason I think these tariffs on Chinese batteries are not good. The US needs to compete.

[@tooltalk]

@@PASH3227 China needs to open up their local EV market for foreign battery competitors for that to make sense.

[@bu3bu4]

@@tooltalk You mean...Tesla?

[@tooltalk]

@@bu3bu4 foreign battery makers.

[@itsederrengifo]

So let me get this straight: A decade ago China saw that EV were the future which wasn't hard to predict considering oil is a limited resource, and there was an increasing pressure in reducing global emissions, so then they worked to have more control over raw materials and introduced measures to boost their own EV industry making it way more competitive, and now US is mad because they didn't do anything to address a problem China identified many years ago?? The sad part is that US consumers are blocked from buying cheaper EV cars, and instead they are stuck with less competitive brands, paying more money and still polluting the environment. I start to think the real problem here is US government incompetence and short-sight mindset.

[@vincentdesun]

Chinese government does a lot of very long-term planning. US government doesn't care about anything beyond the next election.

[@tooltalk]

You forgot the part where, in addition to cornering the raw material/refining supply-chain, China also banned the key Japanese/Korean battery companies t and forced all foreign EV OEMs to use locally made batteries by local companies to corner the whole battery supply-chain (since 2015). The sad part is that rabid EV fanatics and env activists are dancing and singinge the praises of the CCP's anticompetitive, discriminatory trade practices aimed at dominating the global key industry. They also continue to proselytize to the world that EVs are clean because all the pollution (ie, refining) is happening in China.

[@maxchen7229]

Unfortunately, you’re right.

[@tooltalk]

@@maxchen7229 echo chamber.. it's hilarious to see CCP comrade cheering on other CCP comrade.

[@maxchen7229]

@@tooltalkyou don’t see the fact. Please keep what you believe!

[@aiman9088]

Its not free trade when the US is losing, got it.

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@glugtrop2010]

when chinese companies steal the IP and trade secrets of american tech companies.... it isnt

[@goldnutter412]

Well I mean.. Warren Buffett is getting rich so it's okay

[@iancarter3603]

It's not free trade since the commi has ever existed

[@MrNZS92]

@@goldnutter412 While the average consumer gets poorer and poorer, destroying middle class

[@Emilywright26327]

A decade ago whenever a western leader met the Chinese leader the first thing to say about is the climate change and energy conservation but after China’s dominance on sustainable energy and EV cars the topic seems to loose attention

[@hailusong8653]

you got it😁

[@WinterXR7]

China has the most renewable energy in the world although they also produce the most fossil so their ahead and behind in that place.

[@TienW626]

​@@WinterXR7 China has a much larger population, but the energy consumed per capita is way lower than that of the US

now the new topic is "excess capacity" boom!

[@kirkjohnson6638]

​@@TienW626 Yeah, poor people consume less energy. That's also a big part of why they are poor. We use energy to multiply our productivity.

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

A fan of the Chinese govenment I am not, but I do find it hilarious when Americans screech about the CCP subsidizing their industries as if the US Government has NOT bailed out MULTIPLE US industries MULITPLE times! Guys, it's the USA! We have "socialism" for the rich and rugged capitalism for the poor! 🤣

[@mariodosantos]

To me that's just an admission of defeat for the American capitalist model vs China's.

[@Gamez4eveR]

@@mariodosantos China is state capitalist.

[@hacktheboard]

People always make a rich vs poor situation. America's largest companies are the heart of the economy, without them you wouldn't even have a job.

[@newsunsensored3284]

New industries could create new jobs ​@@hacktheboard

[@houchi69]

Lol. Facts.

[@johnkesich8696]

How many billions in subsidies does the US give fossil fuels?

[@Lochamp]

I'm okay with it. My gas bill is low and I thank the government for investing in the fossil fuel industry for that. Go live abroad where you pay 3x for fuel and heat lol.

[@MarijnRoorda]

Recently a study in the Netherlands claimed that the dutch government paid upwards of 39 billion a year in fossil fuel subsidies. They were court ordered to reduce it. They have yet to do so. In fact, they are increasing subsidies...

[@MarijnRoorda]

@@Lochamp If you get a tornado wrecking your house, or a flood, or extreme amounts of rain, or your country turns into a cinder, you wish you had been paying more, attention that is.

[@chinesesparrows]

CN built 95% of NEW coal plants in 2023, and is the world's top pollutor

[@dcallan812]

probably not much, BUT the fossil fuel company's DO "donate" to the political party's to keep fossil fuels the main source of power and keep the prices low at the gas stations.. Thats why TAX on gas is so low in the US.

[@diogotxx]

Funny, I don't remember people complaining about human rights when Steve Jobs and others decided to move to China back then. I remember the use of the words globalization, free trade, etc. Now that China is ahead with better and cheaper products, they're to blame.

[@ferenc-x7p]

The oil lobbies are still significantly strong in the USA. They do not exist anywhere in the world, but they got a stranglehold on the US economy.

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@shall5867]

China is not to blame. China invested in the infrastructure which we have only begun to do. We need to quit letting all the billionaires and millionaires rip us off for greed. We can build a great infrastructure, something government and business can partner in and benefit themselves and all of us. Quite frankly waiting on big business and rich people to do it has not worked well.

[@laincoubert7236]

i also wonder, isn't cobalt exclusively (or almost exclusively) mined by children in africa in atrocious conditions? wouldn't that mean that it's a good move for china to stop using it for EVs in terms of human rights? that was my first thought when the concerns were brought up in the video...

[@fangzification]

@@laincoubert7236 Cobalt will not be a critical component in batteries for EVs in the future.

[@TsLeng]

Can't win? Blame subsidies, human rights blablabla😂 Muricans cope so hard

[@wil_L]

Yeah they knew about all the human rights abuses way before it was publicized.

[@kkit8629]

​@@wil_Lnot only that muircans can't see their own human rights when companies pay broke peanjt wage in Retailer stores & Restaurants where basically workers live aka plead on Tips.

[@silferbuu86]

@@wil_L Like the Arabs and Native Americans? True Freedom for them.

[@ashvio]

So it's bad when China subsidizes green energy programs but good when the US does it and also for fossil fuels?

[@gabbonoo]

because it empowers predatory Chinese policy. weening off fossil fuels often takes a backseat

[@ashvio]

@@gabbonoo so predatory us policy is ok?

[@gabbonoo]

@@ashvio moreso, US policy susceptible to protest and is less callous(which isnt always good).

[@SigFigNewton]

Subsidizing tech Sof the future is not bad and both countries deserve praise for doing so, China in particular

[@shineluvslambiel]

@@gabbonoo so Chinese government decides to spend their national budget on subsidizing green energy while the US decides to spend on wars. But somehow the Chinese are predatory cope harder man.

[@jackietreehorn069]

The US has given billions to the car industry for EV car production and the car companies spent that money on stock buybacks. In the US, it's all about propping up the stock price and rewarding investors.

[@ericy.2108]

Which companies? Be specific.

[@chinesesparrows]

That's still less than the subsidies CN EV gets. Look up the thousands of new EVs abandoned in CN

[@alinazang6651]

​​@@ericy.2108 Tesla $4.9 billion from US government. Look it up.

[@stoneneils]

@@chinesesparrows Subsidies are for development, 'rewarding investors' is moving towards contraction.

[@chinesesparrows]

​@@stoneneils look up hundreds of new (less than 50 km driven, 2021 and later models) EVs parked in fields. Its just like the millions of empty unused homes, supply so much more than demand is tremendous waste.

[@dodoboy66]

American auto makers want you to keep paying $60K for a car.

[@wildfire9280]

Meanwhile American policymakers want you to keep depending on them. Nothing new under the sun.

[@Yayaloy9]

Infra, cost money. Car instant money, so EV ftw, and no infra. Yayyyy - US politician There should be laws where politician can't have shares of any company really

[@johntu7484]

It's definitely frustrating to see car prices so high! Automakers are focusing on higher-end models like SUVs and trucks because they have bigger profit margins and are in high demand. Plus, with all the new tech features and EV advancements, the costs go up even more. It feels like there's less focus on affordable options, which isn't great for everyone looking for a new car.

[@JasonLuther1]

Meanwhile they expect you to pay your taxes

[@aphoenixthatexisted8]

@@Yayaloy9well what if they bought it legitimately with money that would be really unfair and who are the shares gonna go to if the law is implemented

[@lalalalalalala127]

I’m not being accusing or aggressive, and not commenting on this video. But I just don’t like that everything is called a war or a race. Arm race, space race, EV war, trade war. I’m a Chinese. In western media I saw a lot of things like China’s space race or something like that. It feels like I’m living in 20th century. I don’t want to comment about the USSR. But China is not having any race or war with any other country. Our development and utilization of the space and the moon is based on our own plan with our own pace (instead of wanting to win or go ahead of anyone). The development of EV market in China is not only for the environment but to decrease the dependency on fossil fuels. Everything we are doing are being portrayed as very aggressive actions. We don’t want rivals. We want cooperation. Even though every nation has its own interests, there has to be some fields where cooperations could happen, like the environment or the space.

[@JobHans]

That's just the narrative the west (media) wants to create for the average Joe to believe

[@stealthgalaxy32dh93]

The western media loves demonizing China to excuse their own shortcomings

[@Sin-q6n]

That's the idea of a Chinese citizen, and Xi Jinping isn't

[@Zephyriia]

Yes, but there's an inherent imbalance in manpower between China and the West. There always has been, since times of old. So, once the East can match in technology, the West will lose it's supremacy in the world, and will have to follow the interests of other countries instead of it's own. What solutions do you propose for that? That we trust China, who is becoming more and more culturally centered on itself?

[@lalalalalalala127]

@@Zephyriia I’m not smart enough to propose a solution. And indeed every country has its own interest. I believe in the Chinese government’s think tank to work that out. If you have ever visited Beijing and the Tiananmen Square, you’ll see to lines of Chinese on the gate of the forbidden city, which say “long live the Chinese people, long live the great union of people around the world”. The latter one is the ultimate goal of the Chinese government and the CCP. Unionization is not “equal share for everyone”, and definitely not conquering. As Confucius said, a true man is harmonious but not the same, a “small man” is the same but not harmonious. Unionization does not cost personal interests. Unionization/harmony is realized through finding a common goal. In traditional Chinese philosophy, individuality is never suppressed. As you could see in the quote from the Confucius, individuality is encouraged. But how to achieve harmony without harming individuality? The way is to find a common goal. Today in rivals between countries, one common goal is that every country wants to protect its own industry and people. Though it sounds very exclusive, it could be achieved through cooperation, for example, free trade. And that is what the WTO is for. But today more and more countries are setting up high trade barriers. It will ultimately harm their own industries. The US does not want harmony, does not want unionization. It wants absolute advantage over every country in the world. They want control. They want supreme power. The US politicians and capitalists will never understand the core of the Chinese philosophy.

[@andy_incady]

The Chinese subsidies sound no different than American subsidies.. tax breaks for companies, consumer incentives.. but when China does it, we call it "unfair competition."

[@kenho-wr5ul2rh7m]

there are no tax break for companies in china its more likely chinese govt subsidizes EV consumers instead of companies

[@syihabbuddin6088]

When China does it, it is communism. But when USA does it, it is capitalism

[@magicz3r0]

Yes is unfair for the gov 😂

[@jakemaxwell3810]

The unfair competition has nothing to do with subsidies, it's whether one nation has a monopoly on battery component production.

[@JMguy1031]

​@@jakemaxwell3810 Who are we to say that? We would then be guilty of multiple monopolies then. Foods, silicon chips etc.

[@philip7415]

A simple conclusion: Chinese government did its job while western gov didnot.

[@HateBear-real]

Yup, China doesn't seem to be interested in making it's people kneel for foreigners and constantly inciting hatred against its own population for a tiny psychotic group of bankers.

[@BestluckYan]

Yeah, long sight

[@jadedkaiju]

Chinese government benefited from having a dictatorship to pretty much enact the change of EV adoption. US unfortunately has the problem of being a two party democracy where uselessly incompetent and disgustingly greedy Republicans have stood in the way of innovation and general socioeconomic improvement, especially since with the last two recessions that have started under the watched of the last two Republican presidents.

[@MrXsky7117]

​@@jadedkaiju中国家庭购买新能源车是因为政策支持，比如购买10万rmb的燃油车，需要缴税8000rmb左右。但是同样购买新能源车，就不用缴税！而且，现在中国汽油大约8rmb/升，而家用电费0.5rmb/度。车辆的使用成本差距明显，大家也都愿意接受新能源……😂😂😂

[@jadedkaiju]

@@MrXsky7117 今天香蕉跳舞在火星，红色的雨伞和蓝色的猫一起唱歌。大象在天空中飞翔，树木在海洋里游泳。风吹动了草莓蛋糕上的小汽车，云朵变成了甜甜圈的形状。兔子和胡萝卜举行了一场马拉松比赛，最后是西瓜赢得了金牌。

[@mykegoh]

US is such a sore loser.

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

Why do you get mad when the US uses tariffs? China uses them all the time. You don't think China is entitled to US markets, do you?

[@maka6134]

It is both both can be true at the same time.

[@ChanceCourt]

100%. It’s all “free trade” and “competition” right up until someone can beat us. Then it’s “national security” and “foreign influence”.

[@lifestyle8544]

一个ev就让zhina狗高潮了？别忘了你们现在是什么经济状况，什么生育率，就业率

[@TheCurlyHedgehog]

As an American I am impressed with Chinese engineers.

[@nothanks5264]

It’s only free trade when the US has the advantage. Otherwise, it’s a “national security” and “human rights violation” issue 😂

[@runaway0713]

Decades ago, when China was a cheap factory in the world, no one talked about human rights.😂

[@syncout9586]

Calling China's support for their EV industry as "unfair global competition" is like when someone who joins a marathon but chooses to walk instead of run, and then calling the winners "unfair"

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@navado75]

The west sounds like a bunch of cry babies 😂

[@universalcompilations1662]

@Xanthumb_Gum Oof. I know it sounds hurt, but I recommned you hide your little fragile heart.

[@maximipe]

Once developed countries reached that status they kicked away the ladder so no one else can develop, Ha Joon Chang

[@adventurefaps9571]

Meanwhile our government keeps supporting old and outdated industries because it has been completely captured to only funnel wealth to a handful of oligarchs

[@zollen123]

What has US been doing in the past 50 years? Are they serious about clean energy and global warming? Is US serious about EV at all?

[@chinesesparrows]

Read about the record number of new coal plants CN has built and compare that with the reduced emissions the US has had. CN has created so much low quality stuff they have UNUSED solar panels sitting in warehouses for 3 years, all while they build NEW coal plants. That their govt wont use their own solar panels shows how much low quality waste is being made.

[@lastnamefirstname2390]

US has done nothing but spend on stock buybacks.

[@coondog7934]

You are talking about a country where the previous (and perhaps future) president wants the coal industry to strive. Enuff said I reckon.

[@andyzagray7962]

They haven't like they said they outsourced it to Korea and Japan

[@meraki2115]

@@chinesesparrows This makes no sense, cause while China is developing EV cars, it is also reducing the proportion of coal-fired power generation.and increase the proportion of photovoltaic power generation

[@dude-fk2rn]

Only western media would frame “governement support” as bad. As if government was not supposed to do that. Maybe in the US.

[@blazer9547]

Government support comes from tax payers. It can be bad

[@dude-fk2rn]

@@blazer9547 it's used to subsidized industry that supports economic growth and cheaper product. Must be bad, huh? Better to fund wars elsewhere?

[@polong99]

@@blazer9547yeah as how Ukraine and Yisrel got their war fund from US taxpayers money 😂

[@coolbanana165]

@@blazer9547 Clearly it's doing better than the American system.

[@thelegodog5875]

it keeps worse and less efficient companies that would have been filtered out through the market still going

[@北伐軍]

A brand new hybrid B-class electric vehicle called "BYD Qin" is priced at $11,000 in China.

[@rylandallas9907]

If you’ve ever bought Chinese parts before you know they don’t have a very long shelf life

[@田民宇]

2400km with full fuel and full power

[@galahadray]

@@rylandallas9907 lol hope you can never buy it. I have to wait for more than a month to have my own. So many people have ordered it. And US is calling this overcapacity.

[@MartinChadwick-xe7gh]

Check out their Sea Gull for similar price. Fully electric, 300 mile range. The only downside is that this might be 300 miles due to an even less onerous test than our slightly tightend WLTP.

[@sownheard]

how many subsidies does the US give fossil fuels again?

[@TimaWeynne]

billions! also remember the US is the main funder of foreign wars post 9/11, 15-Trillion Dollar, they could've flying cars to the Moon

[@AndrejMejac]

According to IMF report about fossil fuel subsidies, their estimate is $790B or 3.3% GDP for 2023 in implicit subsidies. Easy to find on Google. For the whole world their estimate is $7 Trillion. These numbers come from fossil fuel companies not being accountable for the damage use of fossil fuel creates to health and environment, higher frequency and severity of natural disaster, for loss of taxes on lower prices with no account for damages etc.

[@AceChina]

Too much

[@chinesesparrows]

That's still less than the subsidies CN EV gets. Look up the thousands of new EVs abandoned in CN

[@jrkr7357]

US gave huge subsidies to Shell, Exxon ...etc and after they dominated the world, US stopped the subsidies and accused China's subsidies....

[@Xeonerable]

China is also investing in High Speed Rail too. They are really planning long term. Where in the USA its only about next-quarter's profits.

[@seekx2y556]

The total mileage of high-speed rail in China has reached 45,000 kilometers, and almost every major city and even some small cities in the country have it.

[@chinesesparrows]

Any many of the stations are losing money because low traffic and bad investments to prop up numbers just like their houses

[@JohnnyWednesday]

​@@chinesesparrows - it's NOT a capitalist country. The trains DO NOT exist to make a profit. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[@chinesesparrows]

​@@JohnnyWednesday Please list the socialist support CN provides. CN is the most capitalist country because they love money so much, but blocked by CCP who want their cut

[@linglin92]

@@JohnnyWednesday he is the CCP hater spamming everywhere,no need to talk with him

[@CC-lq8st]

Ummm...didn't Obama subsidize US solar companies back when he was president? His 2009 economic recovery act of 2009 provided 30% tax credit and over 2 billion government invest in about 200 advanced energy manufacturers (the largest being Solyndra). However, it failed miserably when Solyndra eventually defaulted on its 535 million loan guarantee after almost all of it had been paid out. Following that, Obama launched a 249% tariff against Chinese solar panels, but to no effect. China is still the largest producer of solar panels, while the US produces less than even Vietnam. People that think US doesn't subsidize their own companies are truly living in an alternate reality. Every country subsidizes in sectors that they deem important. However, in terms of managing and reaching those long-term goals, it seems China is just better at them than the US. Whether you like it or not, Chinese EVs will dominate in the future, just like their green energy today.

[@partricklin9749]

not just solar, US abate every secotors from fossil to automobile to semicconductors,,,,,,,,,,, but all those abate goes to salary of few

[@bruces-c3c]

Vietnamese products are sourced from Chinese components and assembled in Vietnam. The U.S. sanctions against China have not harmed China at all; they have only allowed Vietnam to earn more money, with Americans footing the bill.

[@outman1923]

Chosen places of God, cities on hilltops, the American exception.

[@FabioCapela]

Actually, Obama's solar panel tariff did have one pretty significant lasting effect: it prompted China to retaliate with a 50% tariff on the one processed material used in solar panels where the US had most of the global market (I believe it was silicon ingots). This caused the US to drop from over half the global market share to about 5% of the market in the span of a decade. Silicon sand that used to be processed in the US is now shipped to China, where it now gets processed.

[@SigFigNewton]

US mostly subsidized things like fossil fuels and food

[@WheelsFactory]

The rise of EVs in China is not only a competition with American companies, but also a huge impact on China's own fuel vehicle companies. The survival of many companies has become difficult, especially joint ventures. More than a month ago, the joint venture between GAC Group and Honda (each holding 50% of the shares) announced the layoff of more than 1,000 employees. Because EVs have caused a sharp decline in the sales and profits of fuel vehicles, and those fuel vehicle companies have not launched successful EVs .China's success in EV is partly due to China's lack of oil, which forces China to do so. On the other hand, due to the patent protection of internal combustion engines (those century-old car companies have registered a large number of patents, even if some of the patents are useless, they are registered only to defend against competitors), it is difficult for Chinese auto companies to succeed in internal combustion engines. As for subsidies and policy support, they are the result, not the cause.

[@maxchen7229]

Thank you for your good explanation 😊

[@patrickperkins1189]

"Unfair global competition" is when China out-competes our monopolies

[@tooltalk]

China doesn't allow foreign battery competition, but complains when others don't allow Chinese EV/batteries. LOL

[@wingchouchou3174]

@@tooltalk Model Y uses LG in China

[@tooltalk]

@@wingchouchou3174 The Model Y Long Range, not all MY. You can't use China LFP in Long Range or Performance trims. And they are mainly for exports.

[@1nsel-1011]

@@tooltalk You can go to work at CNN tomorrow

[@tooltalk]

@@1nsel-1011 Chinese News Network?

[@kamrenwalker]

i hate the geopolitics behind this all bc i would definitely buy one of these chinese EV cars 😭

[@rcbrascan]

It is only unavailable in North America. Europe, Australia, South America, Africa and Asia can buy Chinese EVs.

[@giuseppeverdi8284]

@@rcbrascangreat! Just need to move to Zimbabwe i guess!

[@kamrenwalker]

@@rcbrascan that’s what i figured and that’s the part that’s annoying like consumers are the ones suffering

[@Luka_3D]

@@rcbrascan Yep. I just saw 2 BYD Seals yesterday. They're getting incresingly popular

[@ZgO_o]

​@@giuseppeverdi8284naah you will plenty affordable in south america... full of good chinese EVs half the price of Tesla and even more expensive models

[@icewink7100]

I wish we could just buy Chinese EVs here in the US. Most everyday people care about saving money than geopolitics.

[@Alamak2070]

My friend in the US is hoping to buy BYD

[@100c0c]

Because you're short-sighted and only care about "now, now, now".

[@AbidAli-bo8sv]

​@@100c0c Yeah he should be seeing a future where US is left behind only due to spending more on wars and less on building something. Just whining and sanctioning the whole world for being competitive?

[@TD1237]

​@@100c0cA short-sighted person would favor the US and its grreed-based policies. Someone thinking long term would favor countries willing to accept other viewpoints and who aren't interested in warrs. So I have to disagree with you on that.

[@green29373]

@@100c0cwe only care about our own companies. If something threatens them, we just ban it. Its what happened to the microtrucks from japan

[@shawnkuo001]

Here in the US, the car price has been increased to a ridiculous level. That’s a failure of government policy. Don’t blame china for your own failures.

[@Pantheos]

I'm not a fan from the Chinese government but you really have to give them credit for having a long term plan, seeing future technologies and investing huge amounts of money, while sadly the western countries are too sluggish to change the comfortable status quo dispite knowing that things need to change.. climate change, pollution, energy transition are all known for decades and now everybody is like *surprise pikachu face*...

[@Mr.J.xiansheng]

It must be a systemic issue!😂

[@georgeoust]

I don’t want this to turn into western countries are slow bcz of bureaucracy of the democratic system, I hope we all know how important it is, and countries that lack it, like China, show it to us. Western countries and governments can, and have taken immediate action on other subjects. The problem here is the oil business and their lobbying. It isn’t that present in China, and they’re lucky for that.

[@SpyFromMarsZeus]

Yet Chinese government is the most efficient government in the history of mankind, like it or not. Managing 1.4 billion people and lifting the country from a hellhole is something neither Republican nor Democrats could do.

[@jamesrosewell9081]

You can make that argument but China has failed dramatically when it comes to fixing their pollution issue unlike the US which is now back down to pre-WW2 levels

[@seawater1322]

@@jamesrosewell9081 China is the manufacturing hub for the whole world you donkey, obviously pollution is going to be higher.

[@Treysorable]

So, you're basically just saying that their taxes work well for their economy? Well, hopes and prayers for Ford and whatever they have going on

[@SigFigNewton]

Ford deserves nobody’s prayers. They spend most of their resources marketing and trying to ensure that most people buy a larger vehicle than would be best for them

[@kangkanglu8932]

When you see BYD's latest model, which is basically an EV with a gasoline generator to charge the battery and can travel 2,100 kilometers on a single refueling and charging, for only $14,000, you know the game is over.

[@bwofficial1776]

Sounds like a golf cart with a big gas tank. A $14k car would never meet US safety standards or our expectations for longevity.

[@zacksmith5963]

​@bwofficial1776 car is a cart workout hose

[@kangkanglu8932]

@@bwofficial1776 If Chinese cars are so bad why Baiden raised tariff to 100%？

[@grievousrationality4664]

@@bwofficial1776before yapping, so some research. Chinese cars often top European car safety standards which are WAYYY STRICTER than American standards

[@laifamily7804]

@@bwofficial1776 sounds like you were left behind in the 90s....look up BYD qin L

[@Phlegethon]

The CCP really should apologize for making cheap environmentally friendlier cars

[@tonrotterdam]

And we have Shell, Exxon and BP polluting the debate with narratives like; the EV hype is over…

[@sendoh7x]

Imagine saying this with that EV comprising 50% of car sales figure from China lol

[@KeeperOfTheSevenKeys.]

EV sales only rose by 80% YOY, THEY ARE DONE! Like yeah sure, it wasn't the exponential growth that was expected, congress also killed the tax credit for most cars on the market, and interest rates are currently high which normally means car sales slows anyways, so is that really surprising? In what other industry is 80% increase DURING A MARKET DOWNTURN, considered a failure?

[@chinesesparrows]

Days until EV sold keeps rising, its well over a month EVs sit in dealerships for most brands (and even shipping port for CN brands) while theres literally no spare inventory for trucks

[@Dynasty1818]

When an industry is close to death, ala oil, they get desperate.

[@KeeperOfTheSevenKeys.]

@@chinesesparrows There is so much spare inventory for trucks lol, lots are filled with them right now. EV inventory is actually declining again though.

[@kcchiew4247]

When I was young, 1980s, US told China to open their border for free trade, competitions are good for economic grow. US is telling the world we hv to protect our own countries with high tariffs now.🤣

[@tooltalk]

China actually came begging to join the world order created by the West after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the total collapse of China's centrally planned economy decades earlier. China's first WTO memebership was rejected in 1995 for good reasons -- China's human rights violation for one, but others presciently predicted that they would abuse the system to its advantage. The rest is history.

[@zacksmith5963]

​@@tooltalksource ? Proof ? Usa begged china actually . China kept developing to this day China exclusion act above

[@ZakiHaider-y9o]

​@@tooltalkis always this bot

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@taroman7100]

Greed that backfired.

[@Maverick-ur2vp]

The US has overcapacity in dollar printing.

[@Hmyt-yucca]

Yes, US is a rich country bc it’s money printing machine working really hard !

[@Camus886]

Overcapacity military condemn affordable products maker overcapacity

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

Silence, wumao. Go back to Global Times.

[@ConnorNolan]

Yeah we subsidize our industries with vastly more money than we gave to individuals

[@Pixelarter]

The US loots money from other countries that use the dollar in transactions and reserves, by printing infinite amounts of dollars that inflate the currency and act as a hidden global tax that benefit solely the US. When the BRICS+ currency will be implemented and starts circulating globally, the US will stop being rich, because it just spends money on external wars instead of investing in their own country and infrastructure.

[@王雅静-b2x]

As someone living in China with an EV, I have to say subsidies are essential and vital for the early development of EV industry in China. We ordinary people benefit from the subsidies by paying less to buy a car, which to some extent is a compensation for taking the risk of being early adopters of potentially immature technologies.

[@fajarcahyono3693]

China is Capitalism for the rich and Socialism for the poor, US is Socialism for the rich abd Ruthless Capitalism for the poor. That's the difference

[@50perks]

Can you plz explain it, i really want to know

[@existentialbaby]

​@50perks by socialism they mean: benefiting the people by capitalism they mean: creating profit/money in China, they tax the rich and provide the poor with government subsidies in US, the goverment is just an extension of military industrial complex where they cut taxes for billionaires, tax breaks, subsidies, they even illegally subdued and occupied a country called Haiti in 1915, there are plenty of examples,on the other hand the poor are kept poor, getting healthcare for a poor in america is su!c!de

[@陈元增]

interesting idea！

[@taroman7100]

capitolism is loaded with waste but there is no more competition. It was sold to China.

[@New-vk4eg]

@@50perks The US government gives more benefits to the rich, while the poor are forced to fend for themselves.

[@jaovao]

Just accept US is far behind. Saying that making batteries are very polluting as a reason why they are not produced in western countries is absurd!!! How many US industries are very polluting?! The west won’t accept the superiority of the Chinese in this market. It’s not only about batteries. It’s all other parts of the vehicles. The engineering etc. Compare them and you know what I mean. China is ahead in many parts.

[@TomK-ti8kp]

How is the US behind in EV technology? Tesla and Lucid are innovators. Chinese companies couldn’t compete with western internal combustion technology, so the Chinese govt invested in EVs and charging infrastructure before most other countries. And with that experience, Chinese EV companies are among the best. That doesn’t mean they’re better than the US, though.

[@blazer9547]

Only in batteries, tesla is better in everything else.

[@suphomee123]

@@TomK-ti8kpthey are tho lol, tesla is literally using LFP’s in their newer cars

[@JuanRamónSilva-Piano]

@@blazer9547One thing at a time, they have been slowly getting better at many other things too. This is just one of the many things China will overtake the us on.

[@willv88]

They said that battery manufacturing is polluting and the in the same exact video talk about how there's finally one being built in Michigan. Basically it's bad when it's China, and it's good when it's US.

[@bladervn416]

I like how they just HAD to bring up "human rights issues" at the end of the video.

[@Enalog3]

@@andreyovcharenko1999 Because the accusations on China are untrue while at the same time the US is, by far, the biggest human rights violator on the world stage.

[@wonderwalls3565]

@@andreyovcharenko1999 does not sound good coming out of the mouth of a white, specially a western white. how many brown humans have you killed in last 20 years?

[@lmaoukiddin680]

@@andreyovcharenko1999cuz it’s untrue.

[@abiythelegend9532]

​@@andreyovcharenko1999 cause America uses it for it's political goal.

[@kolviczd6885]

Yea, it's hilarious that whenever they talk about China the keywords are always ' human rights, aggression, security threat etc lol. The scaremongering west is clearly losing badly 😂

[@pashapasovski5860]

People forget the real reason why Chinese government subsidized EV transportation! Chinese cities were so polluted that something immediate and drastic had to happen! That's the job of the government, finding solutions for potential disasters!

[@ZhiyingHarp]

it's like by finding a solution to their national problem, they found a solution for a global problem.

[@pashapasovski5860]

@@ZhiyingHarp Chinese are great people with great history and great future!

[@Chloe-jv8mu]

​@@pashapasovski5860thank you! I think I am so kind and patient when the haters insult me😢😢 I don't insult back

[@sirkeg1]

One of the first days in school after moving to the US, I raised my hand to answer the teacher's question. After answering, the kid next to me said, "I would've known that too but not everyone studies as much as you. Don't think you're so smart" This reminds me of that for some reason.

[@dougmungoven4315]

You are smart enough though to realise that knowledge is power.

[@DecCat]

"I could afford to go to Harvard, but I chose community college."

[@Chloe-jv8mu]

Many white people have that mindset Chinese people can never create anything

[@bigyfuzz]

"Unfair global competition" is the chips act also unfair global competition?

[@leafmystery]

Good point.

[@SigFigNewton]

Absolutely. The US is just sore that Republicans put kept them technologically behind when it comes to energy technology

[@Cballin]

America is just mad China got there first., We need to get Chinese EV's into the north american market.. They are better and more affordable.

[@djprojectus]

WE need to ban them from coming to US.

[@bryanx590]

So what your saying is we need to send troops into China?

[@小喵咕]

​@@bryanx590Will Americans just go around waging wars with their troops? Don't you want to carry out the so-called free trade that you shout out yourself except using the army to wage war?

[@mottscottison6943]

​​@@bryanx590you mean sending meat to China's shredder

[@blang7017]

​@@bryanx590If that's the case I hope you will volunteer to be sent there. 😂

[@prdx8543]

The single BIGGEST turnover, was that when Indonesia had enough of US and western bully, and turn their resources to China. Indonesia is a supplier of over 40% world nickel for EV batteries, and has been asking west to open a smelter in Indonesia for a decade. And the single biggest reason for west to NOT open the smelter, was because any company HAS TO REPAIR the damage the company caused. Be it smelter, or mining, or other industries. They just don't want to pay for the damage. When Indonesia forced them to, they cried foul, and calling names, citing for monopoly, fair trade, and things. In short, they want their nickel comes in cheap. Last year, Indonesia turned to China, and offer them the exact same offer as west. The difference was, that Chine accept the offer, without any drama, and opened their smelter, and accept the requirement to repair any damage done by their company. The result? Well, they got 40% of world nickel supply. So, now US has to buy their nickel from China, or try hard to find a new nickel mine in Indonesia. And China just won't sell their best nickel to other country at a loss. All these dramas, are caused by their own greed. And when their bully cannot be bullied, they throw some tantrum.

[@johnchessant3012]

8:04 $82 billion is practically nothing compared to other things our government spends money on, especially the military. In fact, just the _growth_ of the military budget year over year is probably comparable to that $82 billion.

[@FabioCapela]

A way to think about it is that China spends on industrial subsidies what the US spends on its military, and vice-versa. I believe China's way works better. More so because the industrial subsidies get used for ramping up production and reducing costs, which results in the military paying less for the same piece of equipment.

[@Ybizzy65]

Ever since Chinese started making high techs, the weaterners are shouting , overcapacity

[@tooltalk]

China doesn't really make anything high-tech. China mostly assembles/packages stuff.

[@aiman9088]

Seeing them blaming China for "environment" and "freedom" cracks me up.

[@bwofficial1776]

Because the Chinese stole everything from the West.

[@patropata6621]

or National Security....like the Russian gas pipeline to Germany.!!!!!!

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@limon7470]

This is what happens when a country does things for the good of the country rather than for the pockets of the politicians

[@maka6134]

Youre talking about tia nanm en square China. It never does something for the good of the people.

[@gracie2814]

I’m just amazed how much money we spend in military aid but it’s “communistic” to invest in the well being of our citizens or our environmental economy 😅 like we could have been making better ev vehicles DECADES ago but “climate change isn’t a real thing”?! I just feel like our taxes are so hard to follow

[@gracie2814]

Now we will fall behind because of the older people in charge’s ignorance and they don’t care because they’re going to leave us with the mess

[@biocapsule7311]

@@maka6134 Actually plenty of nation do so, just because there isn't much love for the CCP, doesn't mean the CCP doesn't provide service to the public. The US has so much "freedom", that the US government hasn't done anything major for the public good since at the very least the 70s. If you want to keep believing that CCP has never done any good for it's people... that's your problem.

[@maka6134]

@@biocapsule7311 For instance this EV war isnt out of the good of the heart from the CCP but its to gain access to our data. EV cars have tons of sensors in them including cameras. The more people in the west drive EV cars because theyre cheap the more information China gets of our countries and military installations because EV's drive past them. China wants to become the cutting edge specialist since thats how future wars are fought. Theyve been trying to steal my countries military and budgets secrets for years now. Having Huawei 5g networks and Chinese BYD cars here makes that easier.

[@Demmrir]

Without watching: China subsidized battery tech, USA subsidized fossil fuels. Now to watch and see how right I was.

[@manu.yt25]

When the US and Europe is debating if EVs are good or not, Chinese are just working hard of them since more than a decade ago... They have hundred thousands engineers working on it....

[@strigoiu13]

sure, china boy!

BYD's latest hybrid technology electric cars can run 2,200 kilometers on a tank of gas. This is a milestone in human energy use.

[@abba-Flammenfresser]

Hundreds of thousands of those “evs” were badly made and used stolen western parts. There’s videos all over social media showing them exploding on the roads. CCP is squashing those stories, because they’re literal junk 💀

[@chinesesparrows]

a really large gas tank. I can also attach a large gas tank to a toyota hybrid and get better range lol

[@chinesesparrows]

So are you gonna pretend Tesla didnt exist two decades ago?

[@ichijofestival2576]

So... are we just going to glaze over the size of their vehicles? The US needs *far* more batteries (and far more oil and gas) because the auto industry has been selling us monster trucks to travel 10 minutes down the road. It's the downward spiral started by the EPA's truck/SUV loophole that's made us slower, weaker and our streets more unsafe.

[@vlhc4642]

Except there's no big difference in size of vehicles, BYD sells more SUVs than sedans in China, Tesla sells more Model Y than Model 3, China isn't Japan or Europe, the existence of small cars does not means a culture of small cars, quite the opposite, Chinese buyers like big cars, their big cars are just also EVs.

[@janusjones6519]

Maybe google BYD Shark…

[@bwofficial1776]

The US is also a lot bigger. We have space for big cars and big cars are more comfortable on our big roads. We don't need to squeeze into tiny hatchbacks to drive down 1000 year old alleyways.

[@FabioCapela]

@@janusjones6519 Which isn't actually releasing in China, at least not right now. There's a reason the global Shark launch event happened in Mexico instead.

[@SigFigNewton]

@@vlhc4642mass of BYD SUV vs mass of the laughably oversized American ones?

[@Test_account000]

Over capacity and security threat is synonym for we can't compete anymore😂

[@casper6014]

So lets say you opened a restaurant and run it amazingly for 10 years then a rich person opens next door to you and sells the exact same food but 50% cheaper and steals all your customers because he pays for the 50% loss on the food he sells. Now is that fair or is that cheating?

[@TD1237]

​@@casper6014It is fair. After all, the other 'restaurant' (China) is not riipping off the customers, and just makes better 'food'.

[@casper6014]

@@TD1237 So exploding EVs is what you want? Chinas EVs turn into combustion engines on a daily basis.

[@gyimihendrix]

@@casper6014 That seems fair. Isn't that what capitalism supports? Free market, let the consumers decide

[@casper6014]

@@gyimihendrix A free market should be fair, China shouldnt have the ability to conquer Western markets with cheap goods and then bankrupt our domestically produced products. Thats not a fair market-

[@piotrhalaburda9580]

$29 billion over 13 years to create a whole new industry in China and became a leader vs $59 billion to Musk alone for leading short term success without any major innovations for years I'm surprised that Tesla's stock didn't continue its decline.

[@tooltalk]

According to a recent study by CSIS released last week China spent over $230B between 2009-2023. China already extended consumer purchase subsidy which expired on Jan 1, 2023, for another 4 years to the tune of $72+B budget.

[@Neberheim]

@@tooltalkI can’t find industry data more granular than manufacturing, transportation, and warehousing, so I don’t know what percentage of the total goes to specifically to US automakers, but the total subsidies are also in the hundreds of billions.

[@Neberheim]

@@tooltalkthe average purchase subsidy in 2022 was 11,000 for US and 1,100 for China, though.

[@tooltalk]

@@Neberheim See the same CSIS study noted in my earlier comment: In addition, they could note that the average support per vehicle has fallen from $13,860 in 2018 to just under $4,800 in 2023, which is less than the $7,500 credit that goes to buyers of qualifying vehicles as part of the U.S.’s Inflation Reduction Act.

[@tooltalk]

​@@Neberheim >> I can’t find industry data more granular than manufacturing, ...

[@e5b7-wr811ouhih]

Kinda lucky that such a huge country picked EV over ICE engines imo..

[@theviniso]

They do not really have oil so it makes sense to invest in something else.

[@YOTUBE8848]

the critical component which causes pollution during manufacture won't be made in the US coz "no pollution here bruh". China took the pollution for it. De-globalization will reverse all this. Brace for pollution and triple digit AQI in the West.

[@KLA-h8s]

意义的“汽车工业”弯道超车，并不是内燃机超越，而是从另一方面进行超越内燃机，相信不久中国人均1.5台车

[@backpackpepelon3867]

Necessity, the mother of inventions.

[@niftynige]

They have no choice, they can’t make complicated combustion engines.

[@celanian8188]

2:55 $29B over 13 years is not much of a subsidy. 3:26 The US gave EVs a lot of traffic congestion breaks early on as well. 3:58 The US has many rules that cars made in America must have a certain % of domestic made parts. 4:51 The US or Europe could have acquired these mineral projects if they wanted to at the time. 7:05 If the US was smart, they would invite China to build cars and batteries in the US to employ US workers and require technology transfers from China. Basically taking a page from China's playbook.

[@jameshack485]

Problem is the US isn't smart. They'd rather pay more for inferior cars made in the USA

[@bkterence]

I have doubts about the last strategy, it’s easier for CATL to find English speaking chinese to work for them in the new plant. If the supply chain is vertically integrated or export oriented, then it’ll be hard to tech transfer and copy, and enable a tax loophole for future sanctions.

[@GamerbyDesign]

With the lower cost of everything in China 2 billion a year in an industry that didn't exist is pretty good.

[@nostro1940]

Traffic congestion breaks? How does that compare to 29 billion dollars? Why is your lQ so low?! 😅

[@yerri5567]

@celanian8188 Your last point about Chinas playbook only works if wages are cheaper in the US, which is not the case.

[@tejaswivemulapati287]

Another issue is our reliance on cars. Most modernized nations including and especially China have a vast network of high speed rail which cover most long range domestic travel and it’s by far the most green and affordable transportation method. Our trains are so underdeveloped we need cars for traveling anywhere except those distances that can only be travelled by plane. As long as there are no green and affordable alternatives, we will be dependent on an EV revolution which actually isn’t the most sustainable solution anyway. The range of EVs will always be a deterrent to Americans who are FORCED to drive more than any other developed nation.

[@stickynorth]

The USA should really legalize and encourage the use of kei/city cars powered by lightweight motors and batteries... Cars should only be used for those rare random last mile trips if and when transit service doesn't do the job well or if you live in a semi-rural area where cars are your only option... I've been there and having an electric Renault Twizy would have rocked!

[@andrewzhang985]

Recently, BYD just released a new hybrid EV car that can travel 2100 km in one charge, which is longer than any petrol powered car can run in one tank.

[@bruces-c3c]

I have been to Japan, and the high-speed rail plus subway can take you to any corner of the country, which is wonderful.

[@tooltalk]

>> it’s by far the most green and affordable transportation method.

[@alfrredd]

@@tooltalk providing affordable and clean transport for your citizens is not a vanity project, it should be an important duty of the State. China has achieved (maybe even over achieved) this goal. Also why are trains supposed to turn a profit and be run like a business but highways not?

[@niklasra669]

Why the whole western car industry was sleeping on EV development is beyond me… blaming China for their own negligence is just so weak

[@DDGGVVMM]

Not only the battery, but the investment in the infrastructure also

[@llmice147]

I am Chinese and recently bought a pure electric car, which cost about 25,000 US dollars. The cost of use is really surprisingly low, and the experience is unmatched by any fuel car. Poor Americans, no wonder they have to impose restrictions on Chinese cars.

[@brucesandford7971]

unmatched by any fuel car. lol lol

[@Goober-r8b]

@@brucesandford7971 Ofc. Its meant to force fuel cars to go extinct. I thought that was the purpose of EVs?

[@Neberheim]

@@brucesandford7971 I have not driven an ICE car that delivers the driving experience of most EVs. Swing by a ford dealer and take a Mach-E out and tell me I’m wrong.

[@brentoconnor6127]

So, government action to incentivize and improve technology can work better than the capitalist free market when it comes to improving green technology? Who knew? If only other governments had ever done this and watched their economies grow - like the US post WW2.

[@TD1237]

And it would be nice if the US could save billions of tax dollars and avoid starting anymore warrs and gnocldes in countries faaaaar away from their own continent. That way, they could one day be at least half as competent as China.

[@chinesesparrows]

@TD1237 no, don't want goods like CN stuff: 1. Breaking down in less than 2 weeks 2. False advertising 3. Have heavy metals and carcinogens 4. Be made by forced labor 5. Fund those that want to destroy democracies

[@chinesesparrows]

the computer, internet, gps etc are all govt sponsored developed technologies. Your ignorance of history doesnt help your argument

[@chinesesparrows]

Hmm please look up who sponsored the invention of modern computers, internet and gps. Oh it was the US govt. Who knew? If people were grateful for the inventors of the very platform they are on.

[@bigtuna4010]

improving green technology and simultaneously emitting twice as much fossil fuels than the US itself, yeah green technology hurray!!!

[@nightgardheal]

And we just put a 100% tax on Chinese EVs... so, in the end, it wasn't about "going green to save the planet", otherwise we would have accepted the Chinese EVs like saviors ...

[@dentonfender6492]

How many billions in subsidies does the US give the military industrial complex (MIC) to manufacturer weapons for chronic warmongering?

[@tooltalk]

How much do you think China's Make-China-Great-Again 2025, or Made-In-China (MIC) 2025, has spent in subsidies so far?

[@kamsunleong6648]

​@@tooltalk For productive purposes, it's never too much.

[@bwofficial1776]

Not enough. Every invention was funded, at least partially, by its military usefulness. GPS, the internet, steam power...

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

The MIC is 2.5% of GDP, calm down wumao.

[@dentonfender6492]

@@bwofficial1776 PURE WASTE: $5,000 dollar hammers, and $7,000 dollar toilet seats, and this kind of corruption continues to this day, was decades ago. The day before 911, Rumsfeld's speech about adjustments made to the Defence Department's spending ledgers that couldn't be properly accounted for. The MIC (military industrial complex) has unorthodox sway over our Congress, and Executive Branch of government that feeds our taxes to them with phony excuses of chronic warmongering. The corruption goes on and on. Marine Major General Smedley Buttler said in a 1934 book, "War is a racket".

[@HeTschymir]

The Chinese government also provides substantial subsidy to Tesla when it built the factory in Shanghai, so why don't us government impose 100% tariff on Tesla manufactured in Shanghai as well, in the name of free trade😅

[@giovannifoulmouth7205]

Made in China Teslas are not imported into the US bc Tesla already manufactures in the US more than enough cars to satisfy all N American demand. So you go ahead and put a million percent tariffs on Chinese Teslas, it won't make a difference.

[@刘聪-i4c]

​@@giovannifoulmouth7205如果没有中国政府补贴支持特斯拉，特斯拉估计已经倒闭了！

[@jneuf861]

this is why the western environmental policies are just a show.

[@maxhuang2254]

@@giovannifoulmouth7205 Huawei phones cannot be sold in the United States, while Apple phones can be sold in China.

[@tooltalk]

That's why Tesla doesn't import EVs to the US. Duh~

[@kedradostudio3335]

so what China makes it better, why opposing it? why everything you put like a war or battle

[@ChuckNorrizzed]

Election season; politicians need a boogey man to rally against

[@jonah_lau]

@@ChuckNorrizzed spot on！

[@chinesesparrows]

Because they have lots of carcinogenic materials, and famously withheld medical equipment like masks from export three years ago despite the products being made from order by non-CN companies. CN can't be trusted.

[@coondog7934]

We live in a competitive market. If let's say Murica just stays out of it entirely they will lose most if not all customers to Chinese and European markets.

[@chinesesparrows]

Because they dont- hence why firms are moving to more reliable SEA

[@pashapasovski5860]

US gave Ukraine over 100 billion, they might as well put some money in EV industry

[@dwchen1]

The US gave subsidies to EV industry around $12 billion in 2023 alone.

[@JinghisKhan]

And it's gotten them not much so far because the R&D and supply chain are years behind. The Chinese built this over a decade and a half of persistent investing and prior knowledge of how to mass produce batteries/refine materials and control the entire supply chain. The manufacturing sector in the US is just not built right now to compete on scale or scope.

[@shraka]

LOL that's hilarious. $12 billion in one year? And they think $29b over 13 years is unfair somehow?!

[@dunzhen]

Slush funds for American "elites"...there is a huge inefficiency problem in all these American sectors, military too. Countries like Russia can keep up with a small fraction of the annual budget because their currency goes much farther

[@vincentdesun]

@@shraka $12 billion a year and mostly spent on stock buybacks vs $29 over 13 years on R&D only.

[@arthur1670]

It started like 20 years ago…. I’m shocked lol

[@vlhc4642]

It's too late to worry about what China put in motion 20 years ago, but it's not too late to worry about what China's setting in motion today for 20 years in the future. It's rather amazing how stuff far more consequential than EVs are happening in China right now and almost nobody in the English speaking world has a clue

[@Mayangone]

I am retired and I am putting less than 2000 miles on my Nissan. Every state inspection, the dealer didn't make any money from me. Last year when I took my car in for annual inspection, the dealer claimed my catalytic converter leaked. I could detect any. They insisted on changing my converter. They changed it and on the way home, I found my car was noisier. I went in again a week later and they insisted my muffler was leaking. $1400 for the converter and $480 my my muffler. The dealer is scamming old folks like me. If i can buy a Chinese Wulong Hongguang ($5000 in China) I would be happy to replace my ICE with an EV like Wulong (say $10000) and forever won't have to be bother with the dealer "smog test".

[@DR.Don1899]

you understand China cars well

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

​@Booz2020 Toyota copied byd

[@yo2trader539]

@@JonySmith-bb4gx BYD has nothing to offer but cheap and low quality batteries. Toyota uses highest grade Panasonic batteries.

[@skylakevan5308]

@@yo2trader539 "highest grade Panasonic batteries":world market share dropped from 40% in 2014 to 5% in the first five months of 2024🤣🤣🤣If Toyota is not optimistic about Chinese battery manufacturers, why does Toyota hold shares in CATL ?????

[@mottscottison6943]

​@@yo2trader539what a joke, the world's best EV battery is BYD's blade battery. If they are low quality, Tesla would have gotten Japanese ones instead of buying from BYD.

[@Leonewn]

Thirty years ago, a Volkswagen Santana could be sold for tens of thousands of dollars in China, it was truly a terrifying free trade

[@mimp8365]

Only EVs? Consumer Electronics as a whole.

[@ChuckNorrizzed]

Don’t forget the raw materials going into pharmaceuticals

[@loic721]

Only Consumer electronics as a whole?

[@Elwin-w3v]

A video about TCL televisions is up next.

[@NitishYadav-lb7zc]

​​@@loic721 bro have some mercy 😂

[@chinesesparrows]

This is like saying temu, shein etc are "winning the shopping war" when customers are getting wise to the high failure rate, low quality, misadvertising and often large amounts of heavy metals and carcenogetic materials. Repeat customers isn't grown despite the low low prices.

[@dingyanmezi5373]

As a Chinese native I am even surprised by the number of EV cars on the road in China after returning back after pandemic. It is just stunning how quiet the street is. All the taxi in Beijing are EV cars now. I wish Chinese EV cars can make their way to the US. They are truly phenomenal.

[@stevensmith4099]

The issue was not demand for the the Ford Lightning, but that the only models availible were their $70,000+ premium versions. People literally just cant afford it.

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! If they offered it at price parity it would have been selling like hotcakes.. But trying to charge a premium on a standard vehicle isn't going to work.. The EV premium days are over for consumers. They know what the China price REALLY is and want to pay something close to it!

[@timl2k11]

So demand then.

[@meilyn22]

That's called demand, lol.

[@antihypocrisy8978]

​@@stickynorth I think Ford actually loses money per EV sale. That's how inefficient US brands are.

[@meilyn22]

@josephsmith594 It's called demand either way. The factor that reduces or increases the demand doesn't matter.

[@ZgO_o]

In simple words Chinese government has much better fore-sight, vision and will to make things happens for their country and people, in simple words they walk the walk too rather than just talk the talk

[@kalylbmmi]

Imagine building better public transportation instead xD

[@DieNibelungenliad]

China is leading in that too

[@FullLengthInterstates]

e-scooters work better for most local trips. public transportation is mainly for intercity commuting or leisure travel, you still need a different last mile solution in any city mid density or lower density.

[@CSchady89]

Urban density coupled with walkable and bike friendly design and public transit for further trips. Within a city, consideration for cars should be at the bottom of the priority list.

[@EastofVictoriaPark]

@@FullLengthInterstates This is not the case on Earth. Public transportation is used heavily for short and medium intracity trips.

[@chinesesparrows]

@civilengineer3349 CN has many low traffic, money wasting stations, and the cost maintaining then has become an ongoing cost while traffic is low.

[@MegaBoolaBoola]

The BYD Seagull looks pretty cool, and is only $9,800 brand new! I definitely want one!

[@pelosilee9451]

Banned by U.S. government with 100% tariff and national security reasons

[@aemi_sa]

not safe!

[@MegaBoolaBoola]

@@aemi_sa not safe for competitors, hehehe

[@hangyin3894]

@@aemi_saIt gets 5 stars safety rating in Europe

[@lazymathabucker7692]

I think I know Chinese EV. It is not time to consider it yet because it takes time to do interactions.

[@RKKY-mf7fe]

American car companies design cars according to their stock values.

[@stickynorth]

And kickbacks from ExxonMobil... Whatever Big Oil wants, Big Oil gets...

[@bwofficial1776]

And? Companies are in business to make money for their stockholders.

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

​@@bwofficial1776 then no one wants them

[@weirdtemple1217]

​@JonySmith-bb4gx And no one wants what? American vehicles? Huh? You must be a Wumao Chinese. Isn't Buick is one of the largest manufacturers selling in China? Isn't China also mass produces manual transmissions for Mustangs? Also aren't Teslas selling a lot in China? To a point where they too were exploding and the Chinese were I think protesting against them if I am mistaken here, correct me if I am wrong.

[@RKKY-mf7fe]

@@bwofficial1776 Yes companies are in business to make money. But to make money they need to solve a problem for the consumer, not do what's good for the stock price.

[@seekingtruth1315]

The first major reason for why China's companies were able to develop their EV battery is due to a huge amount of US and Western countries' pressure. US and Western countries pressed China to slow down its economic development (AKA reduce the manufacture industry or reduce the emission).

[@greentraveler4114]

American authorities didn't subsidize Boeing, chipmakers, auto makers, Tesla? when it's mining no human rights abuses of native people? no abuses in middle East of American oil manipulation campaign? tell me if Korean authorities didn't subsidize samsung Kia Hyundai?

[@michaelsomething7674]

If you think about it. This is the same narrative that the USA has been playing. Same old song but different tone.

[@blacksheepo45]

On Amazon, I came across this amazing book called "China’s Supremacy: The End of American Global Dominance". It sheds light on this issue.

[@mbsuwaidi]

Its not just the amazing battery but the cost, the material quality and warranty. Its the whole package

[@Gyrostatics]

wanna guess it has something to do with them being the largest producer of batteries

[@joshnizzle]

I have read several papers about how their cars are awful about catching fire and they mislead about the mileage they can travel so I don’t think this story is accurate

[@moonshot3159]

it literally was in the thumbnail guy.

[@Gyrostatics]

@@moonshot3159r/woosh

[@boxtears]

​@@joshnizzle So you read hit pieces sponsored by Big Oil and the Big 3, good to know.

[@ts-wo6pp]

​@@joshnizzlethis really sounds like cope tbh

[@sonny5068]

China also prices their cars properly. They’re not marked up like here in North America. We need price regulation for EVs.

[@guardianoffire8814]

Price regulation is unnecessary. The laws simply need to be changed to end the auto dealerships control and allow direct sales between manufacturers and customers which is currently prevented by laws throughout North America.

[@tooltalk]

it's called predatory pricing -- you get their products cheap now, but pay more when China comes back to recoup their cost later after they destroyed all local competition and there is no other alternative.

[@kamsunleong6648]

​@@tooltalk Didn't happened in solar panels. They control 80^ of the market. European manufacturers are almost non existent while the ones in US are crying for Washington to increase tariffs. Still the panels are still so cheap that there are buyers in Europe who used them as fences.

[@kamsunleong6648]

​ @@tooltalk Totally untrue.

[@tooltalk]

@@lardyG China already shadow-banned the Korean automaker Hyundai/Kia, global #3 automaker, and who lost over 90% of China sales after THAAD in 2017. Most foreign cars makers who are still dependent on ICE would be forced out of China in a year or two.

[@ALWH1314]

BYD was heavily invested by Warren Buffet. Both CATL and BYD have started Sodium ION battery as alternative to Lithium ION battery. Sodium is cheap, everywhere, less sensitive to cold weather, cheap and less environmentally damaging.

[@tooltalk]

also less energy dense and heavier which makes it unsuitable for moving vehicles. It probalby won't even material if the price of lithium keeps falling.

[@Emolino98768]

When the US is losing, suddenly they worry about human rights in the chinese supply chain 🤪

[@RiseOfAsia]

The way I see it, it's a great plan and strategy from the Chinese government. The way the US sees it, it's unfair trade and national security. If the US is so capable, they should just continue to ban Chinese batteries and EVs, and then develop their own. Let's see how this will play out in the next 10 years... 😀

[@jbqu3142]

It’s exactly what US is doing, ban Chinese evs.

[@AmitSingh-nq1ct]

The problem with all western news companies when discussing these issues is that they blame subsidies or govt support for the success of Chinese companies while ignoring the fact that USA subsidizes its own Auto industry more than China does. how about we start looking at how many more engineers or STEM graduates China is producing every year compared to USA and it's innovation that driving China, not just the subsidies.

[@tothelighthouse9843]

It's not just government subsidies, & a focus on education & innovation. It's also a willingness to commit to longterm goals. The US is focussed on shareholders & the next quarter, whereas it seems like China is investing in infrastructure & planning that will come to fruition years & decades from now. By planning for the future, China is shaping the future.

[@blazer9547]

What are you yapping about? What's the need for stem graduates when there's no jobs for them? You don't understand supply and demand

[@momoxh]

I've driven some of the chinese EVs, NIO and LiXiang to be specific, if we put geopolitics aside, just talk about the products aka, cars, they are absolutely KILLERS, they are way more luxurious than most of the gas cars, freezer, vented front and rear seats, massage seats, air suspensions, wooden and leathered interior, those things are not optioned , they came with the car. If you sit in one of those cars blindfolded i'm sure you wouldnt tell if you are sit in a BMW or a Mercedes, and remember they only cost 1/3 or 1/2 the price of premium gas car brands, if American government would allow chinese EVs to sell in the US, I mean they wouldnt to be able to compete at all, no one can at the moment in the world

[@bwofficial1776]

Chinese cars are basically disposable. I'd rather have a Lexus that will last more than a few years and doesn't have every possible corner cut. Oh, and complies with US safety standards. Chinese cars are basically golf carts. Put all the bling on them you want, it's still a flimsy thing that won't last.

[@cl3595]

@@bwofficial1776 Living in a world of self-deception will certainly make you live happier, Chinese car one-time?? Time will tell. I hope you're still ridiculous

[@DR.Don1899]

@@bwofficial1776 😋真是聪明而骄傲的美国人呀~为你点赞啦！💩

[@kevinlin4895]

​@@bwofficial1776must be nice living in your own little reality.. do keep it up, and keep writing off the Chinese. By the time you wake up it'll be all over

[@tonyh7158]

​@@kevinlin4895yes, if Chinese car really that bad, what's with all the tariff and banning, why the government and industries so scare.

[@hpw-ws6bj]

Not just the battery. It's also the superior chinese industrial supply chains and infrastructures that are impossible to replicate elsewhere.

[@gentoffire]

And also the competitiveness of Chinese education, the amount of great engineers China produces every year in the university are unrivalled.

[@lephtovermeet]

Could you imagine if we subsidized high capacity batteries and charging stations as much as we did fossil fuels?

[@coondog7934]

Don't worry, we will get there. 100 years ago we had the EXACT same issues with way too expensive fossil cars and no fuel stations at all. Now look where we are now with those. In another 100 years EVs are where fossil is currently (unless fusion cars are a thing by then xD).

[@Alamak2070]

It won't happen. Fossil fuel lobbyists will not allow this to happen

[@MrSGL21]

we did. Pete Butteplug has managed to build...lets see what those numbers are....oh got it right here....eight chargers.

[@lephtovermeet]

@@MrSGL21 American corruption and incompetence at it's finest. Intentionally break everything then claim it doesn't work!

[@TMsonjakopp7006]

Americans and their oil obsession

[@junshixianren]

😅The era of automobile fuelization lost to Japan, and the era of electrification lost to China. The United States should reflect on itself instead of maliciously suppressing competitors. Obstructing market competition will only hurt American consumers in the end.

[@shanghaidiscovery2664]

The 3 key things that made Chinese consumers adopt EVs are: 1. in cities like Shanghai it is easier to buy an EV than a traditional cars as those have a quote and you to bid for the right to buy a traditional cars. most of the time the cost to win that bid is over USD15k. no such things for EVs as government wanted people to siwtch 2. also the sales tax was eliminated for part of that time and there were direct to consumer subsidies when purchasing 3. The charging infrastructure is great and funded publicly and you also get some subsidies to charge in some cases. in some malls you have hundreds of superchargers. in the US there were also billions in subsidies for chargers but basically few were built... the baffling thing in all this is that the majority people in the US coud charge at home whilst in China the vast majority of urban dwellers are living in condos and have to use public charging so EVs should be easier to use in the US... All of this took decades of planning. the road to electrification started 25 years ago in China and this doesn't even touch upon the fact that most scooters are electric. this shows that having a long term coherent policy is needed to effect change And Tesla was allowed to open the first fully owned foreign car company to make sure that local EV makers understood this wasn't a blank check they were getting. in fact a lot of the subsidies went to Tesla buyers (especially in the beginning) Lastly hybrid makers are also encouraged to still try and convince holdouts to switch to something cleaner

[@johannhmuller]

The question is not why China does so much to support its battery industry. The question is why the rest of the world does so little to support theirs well done China

[@phunkym8]

also they make car formats that make more sense. u.s. evs are huge tanks that nobody outside the u.s. wants. nobody cares about an e-hummer, ev escalade or e-f150. even the model s is huge. of course not every car needs to be a smartcar but reasonable hatchback like the model x/y or even more compact are the way to go.

[@chinesesparrows]

Tesla is selling OK, while CCP is busy censoring burning BYDs

[@chinesesparrows]

Over 22 BYD dealerships burned down in fires, trucks transporting newly manufactored BYDs have burned down. All thanks to BYD-! And it's even worse for the copycat Xiaomi cars which has so many issues from "leather" seats losing color and cracking in 2 weeks, suspension braking when traveling less than 10km in new car, tiny disk brakes rapidly overheating and not responding, airbags not deploying in several crashes etc

[@TD1237]

​@@chinesesparrowsI don't think the American proppganda channels are good sources of information. In reality, most of what you said is faIse or exaggerations. BYD and Xiomei are doing very well.

[@Mr.J.xiansheng]

​@@chinesesparrowsRight, right, right! Chinese consumers are all fools! Because the government refuses to import more advanced American cars, they are left with no choice but to buy these electric junk!😂😂😂

[@Joel-bh5xd]

You talk too much sense, you can be sued for that in America!

[@地三牛]

中国的确是补贴电动车了，但是美国的电动车企业，特斯拉也拿到了中国大量补贴，这种补贴不限制你是那个国家车企啊…

[@guillaumegiroux9425]

Subsidies can make goods WTO ineligible. However, the WTO is regularly violated by all parties and subsidies can often be indirect and only exports are rule-breaking. It’s really a mess. I can understand the US to be worried having the CCP oversee a crucial supply chain. Still, the US needs to step up their game big time.

[@zhengyunli800]

特斯拉在美国也以碳税的形式拿到了大量补贴，不然特斯拉早倒闭了

[@zen-mc4ju]

@@guillaumegiroux9425 Subsidies for electric vehicles in China do not involve exports. They are mainly reflected in purchase tax exemptions and do not involve the protection of electric vehicle companies. They are part of the country's strategy to promote carbon neutrality. There is no suppression of traditional fuel vehicles. In fact, all traditional automobile companies in China have their own electric vehicle production lines. This is completely different from the situation in the United States and Japan.

[@dfdf-rj8jr]

China is blatantly unfair and cheats with global trade. There's no way they would've gotten here without stealing US Intellectual Property. Before, when the US tried to stop China doing this, everyone cried and said "bullying, bullying!" And now when the US tries to fight back, everyone says "it's too late, China won." Parasitic behavior.

[@tooltalk]

@@zen-mc4ju Most laymen like yourself have no idea how the gov't spends and subsidies industries (and also due to gov't censorship).

[@feelingjust8521]

Last month, China's BYD launched its hybrid car, which can run 2,500 kilometers on a tank of fuel and costs only US$13,000.😅😅😅

[@lilong717]

yes

[@张亚军-k7f]

馈电情况下，每100公里，油耗2.5L，这是它能行驶2500公里的原因，它还有很多油车没有的娱乐、智能化功能，而且还是B级车，它也可以纯电行使一百多公里

[@thyristo]

From 2009 to 2023 1.4 billion China subsidized the electric vehicle industry with $60 billion. From 2009 to 2023 450 million EU subsidized the outdated European ICE automotive industry with $300 billion. 332 million USA from 2009 to 2023 for ICEs: $755 billion. Costs per taxpayer: - **China**: $100 per taxpayer - **European Union (EU)**: $1,304 per taxpayer - **United States (USA)**: $4,441 per taxpayer

[@kiefershanks4172]

The US government and taxpayers have been giving US automakers much more money than the Chinese government has given to BYD and other Chinese automakers. The difference is, companies like BYD have invested that money into making superior products at astonishingly competitive prices while US automakers have mostly squandered that money by sending it right into shareholder pockets. I strongly oppose any suggestion of bailing out Ford, GM or Stellantis should they sink again like in 2008. They were given every chance to compete with BYD and did not do what they should have with the money given to them. I say the US should abide by its own free-market ideologies and let BYD in, tariff-free. I think there is a very good reason Warren Buffett heavily invested in BYD. I think he saw an automaker that was not just there to serve rich shareholders but rather to build a superior business. That Seagull car BYD is building is probably going to completely takeover and be as sensational as the VW Beetle. This whole SUV craze is not going to last because the whole thing is financially and environmentally unsustainable.

[@Cu3an0]

If batteries were made with petroleum, the reality and opinion of the North American industry would be a different story.

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! Or if ExxonMobil also had a battery division and took up being PART of the solution rather than the problem... Alas...

[@6884]

"EV adoption is critical for our climate goals" uhhh. public transit infrastructure. Like the "normal" world.

[@kevin28115]

China has public transit already. Ev is the next step. USA..... Neither.

[@rishikeshraj1138]

I'm an extreme automotive enthusiast and I have no hate for China. They are manufacturing and innovating in many things, thus dominating the world. The vision they have for future, and the ways to adapt it for consumers and manufacturers is also great. The government is supportive in every way and have funds to buy mines around the world. Even after the Lithium ion battery, when US imposed tax rules to control the Chinese cars and batteries, they developed new architecture LFP batteries on lower the dependency. Truly appreciative ❤ Everyone should learn from China about this mindset