Why colorists prefer THIS saturation trick?

Let's discuss a process of achieving a film-like saturation on your digitally shot footage that is more subtle, dense, and pleasing to the human eyes.
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[@yorkunt]

I appreciate the effort of spreading knowledge but you rip some of these tricks from the Cullen Kelly's youtube channel. Some credit could be sweet just saying.

[@ColoristFoundry]

Love Cullen’s work. But this has been around way before him. There are videos online way before his channel that showcase the common trick of increasing and decreasing sat in two different models. Have seen him talk about LCH sat, but haven’t checked out his HSL technique. Also, you read about color science you get the hang of software and means to manipulate aspects that we can’t in a direct way.

[@chrispuscontacts8371]

i also respect cullen but i his video, he was using the gamma wheel not the gain wheel and when i tried it, the footage was breaking, the results were very bad

[@peacevillow3033]

What a non-sense, this feature already existed since version 15. Already discussed on LGG forum way before Cullen appeared on youtube. And it’s the same trick with spilt channels node & Sat/Lum curves.

[@nbasli662]

R u trynna advertise another channel on this channel. That's just not cool and don't be too judgemental. Maybe u don't do your research well cuz what's u doing is ending up ripping out the reputation built on this channel.

[@nbasli662]

R u trynna advertise another channel on this channel. That's just not cool and don't be too judgemental. Maybe u don't do your research well cuz what's u doing is ending up ripping out the reputation built on this channel.

[@reyvaz2951]

Thanks for going down to the point, man I hated so much when people, try to be comedians and waste so much time, explaining their point. Good video.

[@he.smile_]

Indeed an awesome trick! Little note, the timeline color space in the project settings needs to be correct for this to work properly! For example if your working with LogC footage you need to tell Resolve so that it uses the correct math when doing in-nodes-transformations like this one. To make sure you don’t get unwanted result 👍🏾 In this case the node is doing : Timeline Color Space -> HSV -> Timeline Color Space

[@kmal16]

Could you explain this a bit further, please. For example could you illustrate a bit more what your pipeline would be? What do you change to adapt to using an HSV node, how, etc...? It's a bit more work but it would be immensely helpful. If I were to adopt this as a working method I'd hate to run into the issue you mentioned. Thank you so much.

[@dcfanforlife533]

What if im shooting braw or prores? Help man.

[@he.smile_]

@@kmal16 In the project settings, when the Color Science is Davinci YRGB, you can still set the Timeline color space just to tell Resolve what to expect and what to give back when changing a node to HSV or Linear or whatever. That’s the only thing you need to change. It’s also the color space the HDR Palette and Color Warper are gonna expect by default. If the Color Science is set to Davinci YRGB Color Managed, Davinci will automatically now what to expect based of the settings you select for color management.

[@he.smile_]

@@dcfanforlife533 Same thing regardless of the codec, you just have to know what color space you are working with and tell Resolve what it is in the project settings

[@kmal16]

@@he.smile_ Thank you so much for the clarification, I'll try that.

[@Themaseratimarc]

the background music is amazing

[@winngh]

where have you been all my life in my journey to colour grading! ❤️

[@AnishNapper]

wow that made a great change in the color thanks

[@MJBold_1]

Super neat trick, thanks for sharing!

[@davidadrien4369]

This is great information!!!!! Thank you for sharing!!!!!

[@carloseduardomenjivaraguil3540]

Amazing like always

[@gabriel101x]

Isn't this identical to just using the Lum vs Sat curve?

[@demonhogo]

many ways to skin a cat. poor cat

[@anjoomfaisal]

@@demonhogo hello demonhogo. do you wanna be friends?

[@tomomi1]

finally a DaVinci tutorial that has normal size windows so i don't have to squeeze my eyes

[@SomnathNagawade]

Respect for knowledge sharing 👍🏻

[@siliconjones]

How does this differ from lowring the lum mix on the node to zero and then adjusting the saturation control?

[@liquaard2824]

need expert answers on this

[@2424rocket]

Unfortunately over half of your video/tutorial is a commercial. Let’s do more instruction and less selling.

[@ColoristFoundry]

Noted :)

[@yundaz]

Is this method now replaced by the color splitter in Davinci resolve 19 by any chance?

[@ROJTHEGOAT]

thank you so much for this

Isn't Lum Vs Sat curve work the same way?

[@eric-seastrand]

I was wondering the same thing

[@wellproductionfilm]

Amazing ! Thank you very much

[@HikingWithCooper]

Do you (or anyone else) have any recommendations for coloring text books? I don't think picking up tricks, or even decent full courses, teaches people HOW coloring works but rather shows them how to repeat steps when they already know their points A and B. I don't think anybody is well served by learning a craft this way although I'll be the first to admit that that's how I've been doing it.

[@HikingWithCooper]

BTW, I would LOVE to be able to go to college to learn it the proper way but that's just not in the cards. Still wanting to do the work to get where I want to be, just not in the school setting.

[@fazizulfiqar9593]

Sound Name???

[@JflowVisuals]

please

[@itshithu.]

Is it possible to approach this method in Premiere Pro?

[@ivanguenkov]

Very interesting trick

[@eastbayjay]

Very informative tutorial. Any tips to achieve this in Final Cut Pro?

[@alexkanemedia3759]

Try playing with "Hue/Saturation" in Effects / Color (NOT the Hue/Saturation Curves). When applied, the inspector shows four controls -- Amount, Hue, Saturation, Value. Using the Saturation control on its own can give you a similar effect -- positive saturation values increase the color saturation without increasing the luminance of the individual RGB channels (if anything it slightly decreases overall luminance). This looks much different to applying, for instance, Color Wheels and adding saturation there, which increases the RGB values in the image. I'm fairly certain this is a built-in effect, but on the off chance it's not, you can also create your own in Motion by using the Hue/Saturation filter on a drop zone, publishing the controls, and saving it as a FCP effect.

[@eastbayjay]

@@alexkanemedia3759 Thanks for the prompt reply. There is a wealth of info here. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply in such detail.

[@oouje]

@@alexkanemedia3759 Do you know if this can be done in Premiere?

[@alexkanemedia3759]

@@oouje unfortunately I’m not as familiar with Premiere’s color workflow, but hopefully somebody else in the comments has some experience with it.

[@BecineStudio]

@@oouje You can use the Vibrance slider instead of the saturation

[@Fedor_Dokuchaev_Color]

HSV node can and will produce visual ARTIFACTS if there is some degree of negative values in the signal! They look like strange blue pixels that appear in the dark areas of the image. No adjustment is necessary to observe this effect - just place HSV node in a sequence. An image after HSV node is NOT recoverable. HSL node produces artifacts as well. How negative values are produced: 1. Signal itself can have some values below zero, because manufacturers "clip" some noise floor values below black point. 2. By basic operations like Lift and Offset. Do not use them for big exposure or contrast adjustments. Contrast with curve, HDR Wheels or Contrast slider with box "use S-Curve for contrast" ticked won't produce them. If you want to use both Offset and Lift wheels without risk of artifacts: 1. Use HSV in parallel node at the beginning of the signal chain (like Cullen does). Won't help if the signal has a lot of negative values from the beginning. 2. Use HSV in Color Warper node. You will see that the signal is looking weird, but saturation adjustments inside the grid will look fine. There are more potential issues with HSV. For example, noise in the neutral areas of the image when using Gamma wheel or sometimes even Gain wheel. I'll try to make separate video to showcase these problems and ways of resolution. Meanwhile, I'll post this comment to the videos that promote HSV adjustments.

[@TillThenPlease]

I love the look of this trick!! Is it at all possible to do this technique in Premiere Pro Lumetri??? :(

[@Rivilant]

I don't think so, also I would advise switching to Davinci for coloring since it is free

[@CortesFantásticosOficial]

I love the color granding from Bullet Train (2022). Can you recreate that with LUTs?

[@naveedhasan9725]

Goood video

[@Project_2501]

Lumetri in Premiere Pro does all of that with just two sliders. No switching color spaces, no deactivation of channels, no 50.000 Nodes nothing. Just sliding two sliders, that's it. No matter who I watch, claiming DaVinci was the superior tool because of Nodes and tracking masks and you name it, what ever I saw in a tutorial, I go to Premiere and do THE EXACT SAME THING, but way more intuitively, with less limitations. Wonder why that is.

[@VasariFilms]

Premiere pro is for noobs

[@Liza_Aegis]

@@VasariFilms Look at what you uploaded to your own account and how amateurish that looks. And you really think your work reflects the actual merit to say Premiere Pro was "for noobs"? I think you're more than good with Premiere Pro then. You took a big L there.

[@constantinflux]

I was looking for how to do this in Premiere Pro, but couldn't figure it out. What sliders are you talking about (honest question, since I'm new to Premiere Pro)?

[@Project_2501]

@@constantinflux Sure, it's the curves tab in the Lumetri tool. You got several curves like hue vs. saturation, there you can adjust the saturation as a whole or target a specific color range. You also got sliders like Saturation vs. Luma (brightness) - there you can target specific colors and adjust the brightness only applying to the desired color range. So if you want to do what they did in the video (raising the saturation but not the brightness of the colors), you basically raise the entire Saturation vs Saturation curve as a whole and lower the Saturation vs Luma curve as a Whole and you're done in two simple clicks instead of doing all the bogus workaround in DaVinci. See, all this is all a huge campange to attack Premiere by spreading half-truths and lies about functionality and alleged superiority of DaVinci, when in fact Premiere does everything easier and faster. Instead of the Nodes you use Adjustment layers and apply effects to them, which is SO MUCH MORE intuitive, you see directly what effects what. You sure will have to fiddle around a bit until you find the desired values for your specific footage, but this is how you acheive this. Hope this was helpful. Let me know if it worked for you.

[@constantinflux]

@@Project_2501 Thanks! I’ll apply this new knowledge right away.

[@luisneumannp2748]

why gain? Why not offset?

[@itwasme2435]

Really nice

[@wenweizhang5253]

I think the dissemination of Internet video itself is for discussion and learning. I also watch the video of cullen Kelly. I respect him very much, but I think many people are too mythical about him. First of all, the hsv mode itself is to isolate information interference and skim brightness and hue Interference, this is not the only solution, I think this solution is very good, but I have my own solution, that is, I use the layer mode on the dedicated saturation node, I change the mode to saturation, then the same Whether it is the curve or the color wheel, the influence on the picture is limited to the saturation. Of course, I have also studied the usage of other layer modes. I just want to say that we are all just standing on the shoulders of the predecessors to provide new ideas and ideas. method, there is no need to overly myth some people, or be harsh on some people

[@uncleanAlibertine1]

superb

[@josephesclamado]

is there anyway I can achieve this with premiere pro?

[@robertdouble559]

Serious question. How does this actually differ from just adding a HSL type filter and pushing the sat up in any other grading software?

[@wenweizhang5253]

他们属于不同的添加方式，简单的说你可以为理解自然饱和度与直接加饱和度的区别，他们的线性方式不同

[@PaulRichards78]

Wow Thanks

[@toni-borisyornka4447]

from which movie is a scene on the cover of the video?

[@oouje]

This is amazing, is there any way to do this on Premiere?

[@eliteextremophile8895]

I doubt there is, but it doesn't even matter. Premiere doesn't handle colors properly, so you're not gonna get consistent or proper results anyway.

[@jjpaque03]

Can this technique be used in photoshop?

[@MaxKissler]

I will remain a saturation + gamma decrease peasant...

[@midicleric.derekcrockett]

I'm over-saturating and over exposing my music videos beyond recognition.

[@Ultragian]

A saturation trick, then starts out by using a lut

[@MrSurvivalTv_CS]

Yeah, using luts instead of learning how colors work is the way to go

[@ColoristFoundry]

Trying to rectify this in 2024 :(

[@Kallah_DaughterOfYAHUAH]

The title of this video threw me off 😂

[@MylonasFilms]

I wouldn’t recommend this method to anyone unless you’ve been a pro for a while. The image breaks up so easy using this method. You will create artefacts everywhere if your not careful & it’ll be easy to spot in a cinema 😳.

[@ErrickJackson]

It can, especially if using gamma to bend the saturation curve, but it primarily breaks because it stretches existing noise patterns out in more noticeable ways. I find a minor chroma noise reduction at the beginning of the stack can resolve breakage from HSV saturation pushes.

[@MylonasFilms]

@@ErrickJackson very cool. Good to know

[@matrixate]

This is a copy, verbatim, of Cullen Kelley's HSV Saturation technique. You should have given him credit and not make it look like you came up with this on your own. Also, half the video is advertising some products I've never heard of. Why?

[@madcowmoods3089]

You talk WAY too much... just get to the point... the video starts around 3:20, and when you actually explain what to do you breeze through it... why is there 30x as much devoted to what you DON'T DO and about 20 seconds of what the actual technique is?

[@usernamehandle]

Jfc. A video about pro color grading and we’re talking about LUTs? Get real.

[@jy-yr4hh]

i clicked on lesbians and got a color grading video 😔

[@8lec_R]

Very interesting trick

[@Studio35Presents]

Bite from Culleb Kelly’s channel

[@B-Moye]

I like the fact that CF still pinned this comment even though it may not have been a thoroughly researched accusation. I’m just thankful for the content be modernized for KZbin consumption. I don’t think either are the originators of the concept, but each created and put work into the way it’s represented in this format

[@akshaysaiju4615]

Cullen Kelly has done a much more detailed video regarding the same, I would recommend everyone to try watching that as well.

[@ColoristFoundry]

Agreed.

[@peacevillow3033]

What a non-sense, this feature already existed since version 15. Already discussed on LGG forum way before Cullen appeared on youtube. And it’s the same trick with spilt channels node & Sat/Lum curves.

[@akshaysaiju4615]

@@peacevillow3033 Read my comment again.

[@bufftheowl]

Doesn't my Vibrancy slider in Premiere Pro just do the same thing?

[@Menosfilms]

I have a Sony A7iii, do you have any videos for cameras that don’t have a choice that don’t have the option to shoot in log? Can I still grade the footage?

[@NickDelDuca]

Definitely works but I'm not sure if this is much different than using the RGB Mixer with the preserve luminance box checked.

[@eliteextremophile8895]

Preserve luminance does a great job on RGB mixer, but it still affects the luminance. Try out yourself. It's ten second test.

[@manuellinarezarcos3193]

You should leave the Spanish subtitles option active, there are people in Latin America who follow them, greetings from Peru! very good content!

[@DaveSaintL]

I didn't listen to the whole thing but you should note that this adds chroma noise more more then the typical saturation would. Your actually tearing apart and separating the numbers when it comes down to the math. There are some "expensive albeit" DCTL's that can do this without adding chroma. Still a great trick. love it. but just thought I'd let everyone know... Of course, the better the caemra codec the less this is an issue.

[@mastixmastix]

The Chroma noise I get on 265 drone shots in D-LOG M is terrible. This technique just destroys the footage in a very bad way. I would only try this with RAW or very good quality files as you say.

[@Berniebud]

The music is so obnoxious

[@andresasindp]

Thank you again for such valuable information! Greetings from Spain

[@obarovft314]

can this be done in premiere pro?

[@Chewbachi]

What’s better the Luts or Powergrades ?

[@Longdancer]

Thanks for this. I noticed you did this before the CST in ! If I’m working in DWG colour space, then presumably I can apply this approach in that colour space, and not the camera colour space prior to the CST in? Or am I not understanding this! Any advise welcome.

[@rossmacfarlane6154]

It shouldn't matter since you're changing the colour space of the node anyway. After this node you'll be in your timeline colour space

[@Longdancer]

@@rossmacfarlane6154 Thanks for the reply Ross.

[@mastixmastix]

Chroma noise is so bad when I use this technique that the files are unusable. I use it on 10 bit 265 Drone shots. I think with Raw files or very high quality native files it might work great but with compressed footage it destroys the image.

[@Ultragian]

Bruh, just watched this from Cullen Kelly, what a joke

[@SW1FTProductions]

This was really helpful and simple, thank you 🙏

[@vietvoice8574]

Please keep up the good work. I also watched Cullens work. Both of you guys presented info uniquely and have helped me a bunch. Much appreciation.

[@eNeVeFamily]

This was awesome information

[@sergiosanchez2012]

Does this work in color managed Workflow?

[@mansamnnnnikaido]

Great trick! Thanks so much for sharing!

[@AnimeBadBoi]

This is solid - adding this to my work flow

[@movie-trailer19]

excellent technique of applying cinematic saturation to frames 👏

[@mentholyspirit]

What he is doing here is bypassing the sophisticated math Resolve uses to calculate percieved saturation and instead manipulate the mathematical saturation value directly. So this is the most rudimentary way to change saturation, same way as Paint does. Calling this cinematic or film like is a scam.

[@ColoristFoundry]

Lol are you saying resolves by default sat math is oklab based? That’s the most “perceptual sophisticated math” I know of. And as far as I know, resolve still uses decade old broadcast standard equation. What are your sources?

[@mentholyspirit]

@@ColoristFoundry I was wrong about this! Resolve uses HSL for the saturation wheel. HSV is more sophisticated!

[@AnansiHarmony]

Very informative 👌

[@superslavamusic6453]

fantastic !!!!!!!!!!! grazie mille