Why DEMERZEL Is The Best Thing In FOUNDATION Season 2

[@BrainPilot]

Who was your favourite character in Foundation? Comment your thoughts below!

[@ChildlezzCatlady]

Salvor, I grew to like her and was not prepared for her death even though we all know it was coming. She was a great character strong, smart and had the ability to love and show emotion.

[@selja26]

That's definitely Demerzel, closely followed by Day in season 1 (the one who went through the Spiral). Laura's been a blessing, I struggle to find words to describe her great talent. So powerful and so subtle. I hope for a great future for this character and for this actor. (Just a little note for you for the future vids, her name is pronounced Lah-oo-rah Bee-rn)

[@daha1214]

I liked the new made Harry best. I like how he is becouse of the things he gone through is not like the voult Harry and so on. And I like the father doughter realtion between gale and him in the end of the season

[@aaronfromohio8895]

Lee Pace was masterful this season (again).

[@Captainumerica]

I liked Dawn. I found him a more subtle character in a very precarious position. The scene where him and Dusk realize their memories were tampered with, the moment he sees the green mark on Demerzel's neck, his genuine love and affection for a princess who is after revenge/justice and could/should hate him, really brilliant. Demerzel and Hober both are amazing characters too, excellently delivered. Also how can you not love Jared Harris? Although I don't find him as awesome as he was in Chernobyl, he makes a tremendous Seldon, with all the nuances you can expect in a genius. Day steals the light every time he enters a room, no question, and Dusk was surprisingly touching in this season. As was the adviser, forgot her name, the actress gave her quite some depth à la Game of Thrones.

[@jhfoodzzz]

Give her and Day all the Emmys. Their performances have been one of the best in modern TV.

[@williamerazo3921]

I was so piss

[@Sweet-Rat-Milk]

Relax 😂

[@kahlanmarcus]

DAY?! is that a joke? Demerzel is so great. Day is a mess

[@fatalshore5068]

​@@kahlanmarcusI thought he was amazing. The degradation from early season 1 to the end of season 2 was excellent.

[@DMVB2307-u6d]

This show is brilliant, the irony of the puppet being the puppet master pulling the strings behinds the scenes is brilliant

[@BrainPilot]

Most definitely is!

[@one51media35]

But the unraveling of the master was brilliant.

[@paralytaatylarap9715]

The show is really stupid. It has really dumb twists and major plot holes, that ruin the entire show. If you just think about it more than 10 seconds the complete show falls apart. Example: Demerzel has to serve Empire, that means she has to protect the Genetic Dynasty at all cost. She was bound to keep the Dynasty, Cleon’s clones and therefore his DNA intact. But instead of killing the Day of season 2 (who wants to marry Sareth and alter the Dynasty to prevent Seldon‘s prediction unlike any other Cleon before him) and just decant a new one or a least remove some of his memories, Demerzel plots a fake assassination to try to convince Day not to do it. Also we know, the DNA of the Genetic Dynasty was altered some time ago (apparently by the rebels), so Demerzel failed already and her programming would also force her to kill every altered Cleon and if she can‘t reverse the change in the DNA, she definitely failed (if she can’t fulfill her prime directive, she maybe would be even free now). But instead of trying to decant a new pure Cleon, she tries to correct Day’s shortcomings by having a sexual relationship with him. I don‘t think that this attempt is in accordance with her programming, because if this is allowed, she could over time alter Empire and the Genetic Dynasty. And this is just one of many stupid plot holes and nonsensical developments in this show.

[@reganator5000]

@@paralytaatylarap9715 I think you missed something- firstly, that each is half of the ruler. The entire point of her programming is to allow Cleon to rule forever. That would be pointless if you didn't include a bit about obeying Cleon. Alongside the obvious reason she doesn't kill Cleon, which is that she loves him, and you don't kill your son for making a dumb decision.

[@Katharina-rp7iq]

And the reason why she does it is simply to finally be free and aid the rebirth of civilisation. Who would want to be free in a ruin for 30000 years?

[@Phyto-Dragon-nb6it]

Amazing actress, and a really complex role. Eps 9 and 10 was Demerzel Tour de Force.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she carried those episodes! I felt like I learned so much about her in those moments

[@williamerazo3921]

7-10 masterful. Like when told Sarthee that she needs be quiet and don’t want to end up like her family in the flames. That’s was so eloquent and so scary

[@corrupterror404thatonekidt3]

@@williamerazo3921sarthee 💀

[@aaron4820]

Demerzel and the genetic dynasty is one of the coolest things to have come out of sci-fi in recent years, the fact that it's an original creation for the show makes it even more impressive. This show can explore so many things that other scifi would struggle with just because the story by design has to span across millennia, and to have a singular android live through it alone, it's like the short life Roy Batty's "tear in rain" on steroid, the scene where Day asks her what she sees during a jump just gave me "c-beams tannhäuser gate" goosebumps as colorful lights reflect from her eyes. An AI researcher Nick Bostron argued a superintelligent general AI is not only orders of magnitude smarter than us, but it could also be the same degree more conscious than us, and by those metrics and definitions, they are more human than us. To have such a tortured soul endure what she has to would usually be something that is unimaginable, yet through the performance of Laura Birn, we see it right in front of us. This story is just incredible, I almost wish they would drop the Foundation Hari / Mule plots and just focus on these guys.

[@thomasnackid9734]

I wonder if the writers were influenced by Arthur C, Clarke's novel "Imperial Earth" where a dynasty of clones made from the colonies original founder rule Saturn's moon Titan. In that case also there are always three clones at any given time, an older retired one, a middle aged one and a young one learning the ropes.

[@carolbriscoe9337]

I felt both actors Laura Birn and Lee Pace took their performances to a higher level. The acting was superb from both. Can't wait to see how Season 3 will unfold

[@nulnoh219]

It's brilliant tho. They make the whole Idea of the systemic stagnation of the Empire into a Character. Demerzel is literally programmed by Cleon I to keep things the same. Even if Empire WANTS to change He can't. They took a Systemic issue and put a face on it. Seems to be the whole Thesis of this adaptation.

[@williamerazo3921]

Yup. Demezel is Empire. She can’t change so society becomes stagnant and collaspe on itself

[@yucol5661]

I like that about this show. People complain that they change stuff like names or plots. But they kept the themes and ideas and just repackage them. Which to me is actually the meat of the book

[@LovethisNation]

Very dangerous AI games is ahead of us in the real world. I agree, this AI plot is the central theme

[@ThatKid22101]

On top of that, the show runners managed to show and emphasize that she isn't the only one enslaved by the original cleon but so are his clones, he basically programmed her to run empire when he was gone and his clones are just mere puppets, she doesn't get a choice in anything she does with empire but neither do they, kind of a funny depiction of how humanity and robots are both slaves to each other, one is enslaved by programmed obedience and the other is enslaved because the robot was also programmed to keep them safe and adhering to the status quo forced upon both of them.

[@andymachala999]

R. Daneel Olivaw reprograms itself. I think that is what the show is about.

[@LeiaAskin]

Go back and rewatch Season 1 Episode 8 and you get the first glimmer that she is not the evil that you think she is. In that episode, Demerzel is forced against her will to kill Zephyr Halima by Brother Day. To me, that was a pivotal moment for Demerzel. She killed Brother Dusk whom Brother Day loved as a son as revenge, but justified it within her programming as “defending” the Cleonic dynasty from further strife.

[@malalford]

No one needs to go back. Everyone got it the first time she killed a clone. There was no revenge. Her programming prevents her from revenge. She killed dawn because he wasn't really _Empire_ and that's all she's she's programmed to perpetuate.

[@venomousspecifics45]

Ohhh, I hadn’t thought of it that way. That’s a very interesting perspective!

[@abelincoln8885]

lol. Demerzel .. is a soldier of the Robots that wanted to exterminate the human Race. So Cleon 1 falls in love with .. a homicidal robot ... refuses to marry a human being to continue his dynasty ... but instead .. choose a homicidal robot to be his Empress and for her to raise the the Clones .. as their children ...and puts a chip in her so she could not kill Empire but must protect the Dynasty ... yet somehow an imprisoned robot that has killed countless human beings & can make more of its kind ... is the victim ... being forced against her will to kill for Empire. Enough of the Liberal silliness. The Robot Wars had bad robots fight good robots ... & the human Race. Demerzel is the last ... of the bad Robots. Kalle is the last .. of the good robots betrayed by Man with her kind being wiped out on Oona's world. But Kalle ... just made Hari .. who is the same as her. And the Mule ... is a mutant .. powerful Mentallic with super strength .. who hates humanity. Meanwhile ... Demerzel ... is a powerful robot ... now with human like abilities like emotions, love and visions after completing the Spiral ... and ... is making "genetic" clones ... and now has the Prime Radiant which knows all about Mentallics, Gaal, Hari and the 2nd Foundation. Do the maths and stop being a silly liberal caring more about criminal rights not their victims.

[@venomousspecifics45]

@@abelincoln8885 I think you’ve missed the point of storytelling. This story lets us feel empathy with characters vastly different from oneself. Also, not everything is on a liberal/conservative duality. Life is generally more complicated than just one axis!

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

That episode is where the writers really fucked up, and shows that they have not read much of the whole series. Dermerzel is R. Daneel Olivaw, and as a Zeroth Law robot, is acting to protect the whole of humanity. Kalle is likely going to be shown as another of Daneel's identities.

[@runforrestrun1965]

For a character that must look and be robot like and to be in control at all times she has done a truly amazing job portraying her struggles of following empire and following her own desires. Outstanding performance

[@alebonfarrier]

Yeah her acting is top notch. She made you root for her, and forget that she is a Killer Robot that lead an army against all of man kind 5,000 years ago and if she was freed she create other robots to do the same all over again. She, has out lived anyone that had the knowledge needed to stop her, and would surely succeed this time around. Dude She's Skynet with tears homie, you do not want her free!

[@SlightlySaturated]

Ever since season 1, Demerzel has been one if not the best thing to happen to Foundation (TV). The complexity of the character (ie: a robot who practices religion) makes her very interesting and enjoyable to watch,

[@mahalallel2012]

Some people might say, religion is for robots??

[@mathudeano145]

I have to disagree slightly on the idea she was just a murderous robot in season 1. She was religious, walked the spiral, claimed to have had a vision even though she’s a robot, didn’t want to kill the priestess and ripped her face off after killing Dawn.

[@sphelps31]

Yea agree. There's real conflict in her, she doesn't want to do things that she's been told but she has no choice...so far.

[@InfiniteMoose]

This did confuse me to be honest. We already had the beautiful development and reveal of her character in season one, and then in season 2 it's as if they just wipe the slate clean and do it all again? I wonder if they just don't know what to do with her once she's been established as a compassionate villain, and if we'll get the same story repeated in season 3.

[@Endonae]

​The slate wasn't wiped clean. She's more jaded in season 2. She was willing to toss Day aside and decant another one before he destroyed Terminus.

[@damiand2422]

Demerzel is certainly one of the most interesting characters but loved the energy both Hober and Polly brought to the show

[@jackreacher4547]

Sad about Hober. Very cool character.

[@williamerazo3921]

Didn’t care about Hober honestly, but poly and his scenes with Day and his redemption 😘

[@DiogoPace]

Hober Malley and Bel Riose are such cool characters to be wasted on a single season. 😢

[@sphelps31]

One of the good things about the show being over so many years is you can inject new characters and also new technologies. Kind of the problem with Star Wars and Star Trek to some extent they don't really seem to change. Which is a point of these season, Empire has grown stagnant while the Outer Worlds have Jump Drives without the need for Spacers and the same Aura tech that only the Emperor is supposed to have access to but they give it away for free.

[@plurplursen7172]

Cleon is also forcing Demerzel to love and kill him. So many conflicts in programing

[@dreamnvisionz]

Exactly, and that my friend is why we're human. Brilliant show

[@williamerazo3921]

She surpassed the Day Cleon Lee Pace performance and story line. I couldn’t believe anyone would surpass Lee Pace on this show

[@rcwhite364]

Both Laura and Lee delivered major performances this year, and the rest of the cast isn't that far behind. It only got better and better.

[@MorganVsTheInternet]

YES! Lee Pace’s Brother Day was my favorite character from season one, but Demerzel freaking ate it up this season! As Cleon’s forever empress, she's both the most powerful person in the galaxy and an eternal prisoner to Clron’s will!

[@Bluestreakfire]

she is definitely a great actor. one of my favorites now

[@mikkojuhani7704]

Best character since forever, the forever empress

[@danilosaraujo79]

Best portrait of a robot since Rutger Hauer's on "Blade Runner".

[@crowbar9566]

Robot?!?! Roy Batty was a Replicant !

[@danilosaraujo79]

@@crowbar9566 "Early in the 21st Century, the Tyrell Corporation advanced ROBOT evolution into the NEXUS phase - a being virtually identical to a human - known as a REPLICANT."

[@crowbar9566]

@@danilosaraujo79 So your quote says that "Replicants evolved FROM robots" (so are no longer robots - like humans are no longer homonids - "....to a being VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL to a human." You couldnt say Demerzel is identical to a human anymore than C3PO is. Thank you fro proving my point, all the best.

[@danilosaraujo79]

​@@crowbar9566 I know they evolved, but they're still androids. "The term "android" is changed to replicant. This change was devised by director Ridley Scott to discourage preconceived ideas by audience members." Cheers.

[@randomdude8202]

While she does need some compassion, people forget this is not just an ordinary human. The freedom she can actually have doesn't have humanly limitations, she can basically do whatever she wants, and get away with it. One of the things that Cleon limited is her changing her body as she pleased, which would make her untraceable. And that is the freedom she wants. We don't know what she did during the rebellion, and we don't know what she would do if she was totally free.

[@Cbricklyne]

It's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

[@thehumus8688]

Demrezel is - R. Daneel Olivaw from the Asimov saga which confirmed by the showrunner so, her past and future in some way is already written

[@pintiliecatalin]

@@thehumus8688 What do you mean "confirmed by the show runner"?? This is something Asimov himself wrote...

[@thehumus8688]

@@pintiliecatalin R. Daneel Olivaw character is copyrighted. The Show Director explicitly said that to make the Show Demrezel to be R. Daneel Olivaw. He need to acquire right to use it and he Did. so, R. Daneel Olivaw is Demrezel as in the book. an exact potrayal or adaptation R. Daneel Olivaw span across entire Asimov Saga, not just foundation. if Showrunner dont acquire the right, Demrezel might be and might not be R. Daneel Olivaw. her backstory would be more ambigous as result

[@pintiliecatalin]

@@thehumus8688 Your comment still doesn't make sense. We know Demerzel is Daneel because it is in the books. The show runners confirming it makes no difference...

[@SydMountaineer]

I agree, she’s the best part of Foundation She’s more aware spiritually (inner self), intellectually, & emotionally than humans are.

[@macbuff81]

The character of Demerzel encapsulates one of the most fundamental questions humans have been asking about themselves for a very long time (ancient Greek philosophers included): do we actually have agency over our lives (free will) or are we just puppets following our "programming?" The sci-fi shows "Westworld" and BSG tackled this issue as well

[@felixolivares9129]

She is a great actor

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she smashes this role!

[@TheThOdOr1s]

And season 1. And in general. Like, arguably, Eto Demerzel and how it’s all connected is the highlight of the books too.

[@tvgerbil1984]

The TV Demerzel was opposite to everything the book Demerzel represented.

[@zhollamychalis4252]

I can't be the only one who would love a Demerzel supercut. No Hari, supergirl, Salvor or Cleon as primary characters. Just Demerzel, all her appearances from start to end of season 2. all in the appropriate context.

[@james45478]

Wow! I was blown away. All the acting in Foundation is pretty good but episode 10 showed how Laura Birn can take it to another level. That was Chiwetel Ejiofor in 20 yrs a slave good.

[@crowbar9566]

She's so old I think she originnates from a time closer to our present than her own. It would be cool to see an origin episode showing her being built by Tesla or Apple a hundred years from now.

[@NeilsonBuntowa]

she started as chatgtp XD

[@phunk8607]

Lol

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

She started as R. Daneel Olivaw, built around 2900 years from now.

[@BreadburrEnt]

She even remembers that humanity originated from Earth. It’s small, but considering that most of Humanity in this universe has forgotten and is conflicted about which star system humans come from, I think it’s a cool detail.

[@Gator5000e]

While I agree with you about her fantastic development arc this season, she was always a favorite of mine because she was always a mystery. It probably won’t happen, but Laura Birn NEEDS to be nominated for an Emmy. But all the characters have been good. Brother Constant has been a treat as has Hober Mallow. Can’t wait for season 3. Apple just needs to green light seasons 4 & 5 to be filmed back to back.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah there's been lots of treats in Season 2!

[@DC-sd1lw]

Always loved Demerzel. Without the character this show wouldn’t be nearly as good.

[@philipwalker6937]

The character of Demezel is thought to be the same charcter from his earlier story The Caves of Steel ( R. Daneel Olivaw )

[@JohnHillRSNStudios]

I think she and Hari are working together to both get her freedom and to bring down Empire. I think she was the one to suggest Hari and his group be exiled and not executed.

[@deezuschrist9794]

The way she smiles while looking into the prime radiant, she definitely could see that freedom is possible!

[@KentLavisMW]

Demerzel was also the one secretly meets Hari and asks him to continue the development of psychohistory.

[@Regelos]

I fully agree with you that actress knocked it out of the park. I would not be surprised if it came out she is a actual humaniform robot IRL (Joke obviously) I want a spinoff for this show focusing on pre-foundation Demerzel solely. Though I have though she was one of the best things on the show since she first appeared on screen.

[@TheDarq0n]

love love her character and this entire season! It was sooooo goooood!!!!

[@BrainPilot]

Wasn't it just!

[@xDreadheadx]

Yea.. her story damn near brought me to tears

[@BrainPilot]

It was powerful!

[@Vortexnicholas]

I like her character. Especially at the end you could see her struggle between empathy , desiring free will and her overlapping programming

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah it was such a great inclusion to have her like that in the show!

[@EmperorAtreidesDune]

Such an amazing character. Beautifully written, and acted so damn good:)

[@BrainPilot]

Totally agree!

[@jflutter3819]

Demerzel's conflicted 'soul' and the dilemmas she experiences are such a powerful theme which is brought out beautifully in Laura Birn's performance and the incredible visuals and dialogue in this programme. She has some powerful lines - for example, in series 1, she tells Dawn (as she walks him towards his doom and she ends his life) that all love is programming, even a mother's love is simply 'biological programming', in a foreshadowing of what unfolds in series 2. Echoes of philosopher, Arthur Koestler's 'ghost in the machine'...

[@ThatKid22101]

I honestly hope Demerzel is a key figure in ensuring Humanities continuation and survival, she is so human on every level. I honestly can imagine as well that she would be the only one capable of disobeying her programming eventually, that or some accident happens and she's struck in her back by something breaking the thing controlling her.

[@kirk001]

If I understand Azimov robots correctly, laws 1-3 are programmed, but the Zeroth law (protecting humanity as a whole) has to be logically arrived at. That may give us a clue as to Demerzel's future arc. "I serve Empire." "Is Empire better served through power or longevity? Because you can't have both?" The show has never defined what "Empire" means in concrete terms. There's the political entity and establishment. There's the Cleonic dynasty itself. But obviously the constitutent clones don't hold the same value as the dynasty. I think her freedom comes when Empire is but a memory, then the way to ensure that the memory of Empire lives on is to ensure humanity lives on and remembers--and that's probably something that the Prime Radiant can show her.

[@DavidPaulMorgan]

I think R.Giskard & R.Daneel (in the books) came up with 'something more' - ie the Zeroth Law "A robot may not harm humanity through action or inaction..." when not in conflict with lawas 1 - 3. I'm not sure if they are going to use the 'galaxia' concept, or have the Mentalics become the 2nd Foundation.

[@nemomarc7841]

We discover a little more about his origins of DERMERZEL His meeting with the first Cléon and His glass prison. It's visually incredible, it has been divided into several glass slides for 5000 years, when the first CLÉON child discovers it, she tells him stories and later frees it. I hope a season 3 is still planned.

[@jackdeath]

Demerzel is actually R. Daneel Olivaw from Asimov's _Caves of Steel_. It was one of the first sentient robot US Robotics made and is the key to making more of them. However, if you were to ask US Robotics how they made sentient robots, then they would deny they had anything to do with such a project and that the sentence was a mystery that they believe was the result of some feature in their positronic mind.

[@thomasnackid9734]

Daneel was built on Aurora, one of the Spacer Worlds, by Roj Nemennuh Sarton and Han Fastolfe. US Robotics was long gone by the time of "Caves of Steel".

[@mallman9374]

R. Daneel was also the first robot made who was indistinguishable from humans, formulated the Zeroth Law of Robotics, and helped develop the science of psychohistory. He's a major character (in my book, the most important character), in both Asimov's robot and Foundation story arcs.

[@411bvRGiskard]

@@mallman9374 I believe it was R.Giskard Rentlov that formulated the zeroth law originally? If not he played a major part of its creation.

[@abner31793]

She has always been my favorite character, even in the first season.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she’s such a good character!

[@livrosespiritasnarrados]

She was the best thing in season 1 too.

[@maryannryan9423]

Laura Birn is fantastic in this amazing role.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she did so good!

[@AerielFerguson]

The scene where demerzel decants the 3 new cleons showing how zombie like they are depicts how they're just replaceable place holders for Cleon 1st ruling from the grave.

[@JohnPatrickCarroll]

At first, I hated that I would not get to experience R. Daneel Olivaw on-screen, as he's one of my favorite of Asimov's characters (and was the first I met in Robots Of Dawn) so very, very long ago. But Laura Birn's performance is so awesome, and I keep perceiving something of R. Daneel in there somewhere. I hope that someday, we will eventually see Olivaw's other aliases as well.

[@biomimetica]

She actually is Daneel lol the showrunner confirmed it. Also, Laura is apparently supposed to play Chetter as well. 2 out of 3!!

[@williamofhanover]

the way she talks to Dusk and the Cloud girl about how when she looks back on Cleon I she gets tears in her eyes because she loves him so much but she knows she was programmed to feel that way so she’ll never know if the feeling was real and hates Cleon I for it was literally chilling.

[@selor8151]

i love this show so much i cannot wait for the mule's rise also i hope demerzel lives all the seasons

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah same! The Mule is a character that I can't wait to see more of

[@kkpratt]

Demerzel is also my favorite character of the series. Your points about season 2 are spot on, but I have to disagree with your point about her character being underdeveloped/not good in season 1. For me, she was the best part of the first season as well. We get a very intimate look at her internal conflict and inability to act against Empire in The Spiral episode arc. This storyline does a beautiful job at showing us Demerzel's faith and history, and ends with a real example of the prison her programming is when she assassinates Zephyr Halima. She tells her "even if I let you leave, I would be unable to stop myself from following you and tearing you apart." Their scene together is one of the most illuminating and poignant scenes of entire the season, in my opinion. I thought that season 2 expertly expanded on Demerzel's very apparent inner turmoil about her forced role in the dynasty.

[@lyannamormont1473]

Agree, great role, incredible performance. Great show, great season.

[@balaalalaslk]

I love and sympathize with her more than any human character in the show.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah I get that too

[@jsalvame]

She is the most human of them all

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah genuinely!

[@danielfrost473]

I wholeheartedly agree. Laura Birn's performance is outstanding. Every glance, every gesture, every word is captivating. And Demerzel's story is intriguing. It says a lot about the show that the only relatable character is a robot. The great reset, i.e. time jump, every season is a big flaw in the narrative. There is just no use in getting invested in the (human) characters. And the most annoying one, Gaal, will probably survive till the very end. How many times will they kill off and then resurrect Hari Seldon... There are no stakes, just some steaks.

[@phunk8607]

Love love her... i feel so bad for her.

[@LadyJay882]

Question: Can someone please tell me what exactly Demerzel’s power source is, even theoretically? No food, sleep, or battery that lasts thousands of years. Help me understand.

[@bobnuttall461]

It’s easy to see where Frank Herbert derived his inspiration from for the Dune series… a lot of parallel threads like Psychohistory and “The Golden Path”, the stagnation of humanity and the need for a brutal reset to reinvigorate the species… both are fantastic.

[@arbitool]

Enjoyed your take on Demerzel. Thank you.

[@BrainPilot]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Slammy555]

In the books she was the ultimate hero, not just in this series.

[@biomimetica]

Yeah Demerzel was the real main character of the books too. They’re taking a different route I think to give their plot more depth/make them less Deus ex Machina but I think we’ll see a similar conclusion w their motives

[@robertpearson8798]

In the books the character was R. Daneel Olivaw and I can’t think of a single legitimate reason why that needed to be changed.

[@malik_alharb]

Ive fallen in love with Demerzel

[@cmacmenow]

Demerzel intrigues us all deeply because she is us.

[@redcamaro9401]

I remember in the book series, Demerzel disappears after the empire's collapse, and you don't see him(her) until the last book of the series on the moon.

[@selja26]

Even in the first season I never believed her character was truly evil, later confirmed in the episode with Zephyr Halima seeing how Demerzel had to kill against her will and how much she resented Day for making her do that. I imagine the killing of Sareth family brought similar suffering to her, even not pictured. For me it was always the matter of discovering the limitations put on her by programming and also if she'll try to circumvent her programming somehow. Which we get in full in season 2. It was the first time she came so close to freedom in 600 years but I guess if she hinted to Dusk how to disable and reprogram her we wouldn't have the next season lol.

[@TheSweetestCocoa]

Demezel is hands down the best part of the show. I enjoy all of the storylines except Gaal and Salvors (just so disappointing, almost feels like Gaal is getting weaker instead of stronger. I thought she would be so much further along mentally and in physical strength). But Demezel just stands out Soo far ahead of all the others and the fact that she now has a prime radiant it's absolutely wild to me.

[@abelincoln8885]

lol. There is no Demerzel .. without Cleon falling in love with a homicidal robot .. and making her his Empiress ... and the mother of their (clone) children. And Gaal & Salvor ... just defeated a powerful Mentallic who is hundereds of years old ... plus Salvor contacted Vault Hari telling him all about the 2nd Foundation, Mentallics, 2nd Hari .. and possible ... Kalle. The Robot Wars .. had bad robots fighting ... good robots & Man. Demerzel ... is the last of the bad robots .. who would have killed child Cleon if he had released her. And she can make more of her kind. Kalle ... is the last of the good robots .. because her kind were betrayed by the Empress on Oona's world ... and she just made Hari .. who is her kind. And the Mule ... is a mutant ... and a powerful mentallic with a hatred of Humanity . Least we forget that Demerzel ... is a homicidal robot .. who can make more of her kind ... and now has the Prime Radiant which now knows about the 2nd Foundation, Gaal, Mentallics, 2nd Hari .. and possibly also the Mule. We dont' know if Salvor told Hari about the Mule. Weak storyline for Gaal & Salvor? lol.

[@TheSweetestCocoa]

@@abelincoln8885 Gaal and Salvors storyline was weak to me as it compares to the others. The other storylines were really interesting and complex and had me engaged. I felt emotionally pulled by the others. I think it's the lack of chemistry between the characters that make me feel less engaged. Gaal not knowing how to connect with her "daughter" or what relationship she wants with her. Salvor and Gaal not trusting Hari. Plus them being on an island full of mentallics so you can't really trust anything you see. It was just a bit disconnected for me. I didn't really feel emotionally connected to any of the characters in that timeline. For me with such a strong season it was my weakest link. I thought Gaal would have been a bit more developed and mature in her abilities by now. I just don't feel like she's grown that much from the beginning of the season. The death of Salvor just felt so unnecessary, it felt like they were just grasping at straws to make something dramatic happen they already "killed" Hari and brought him back nobody cared, so it just felt like who else can we kill that people would actually care about. I don't know. At the beginning of the season they were my favorite storyline but I'm just very disappointed at the direction it took.

[@dr_jaymz]

I think she did the best possible job, the casting is so perfect. Her accent is hard to place which coupled with her facial expressions makes it so we never really know where we are with her... which is spot on. I think she came in to season two suddenly completely getting her own character. I'm still confused as to whether shes a baddie or not. She doesn't have 100pc agency but she does have a lot of influence. Maybe she actually thinks the prime radian and the future it foresees is what she wants.

[@crowbar9566]

I also thought she was the last empress from the way she was looking up at he mural of her - it did look like Demerzel with a different hairstyle....but I was wrong. I knew early on she was the real power behind the throne, though.

[@madDdog67]

Laura Birn *crushed* it in this role. Her character arc really blossomed in season 2. Plus, Suomi ftw! \m/

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she was awesome!

[@jopwarmy]

I think the question of free will for her will always be ambiguous because there was/will be a point where the genetic drift of the cleons will free her (like with how she killed the one Dawn), but I think she will continue on and realize that it was actually her love for them that kept her imprisoned… or at least kept her from realizing she is free.

[@8Smoker8]

Yes, she's the best in many aspects. Amazing character and actress.

[@BrainPilot]

Yeah she is great!

[@whoisamp620]

Season 1 ok Season 2 this is not the book it is it’s own thing and it is SPECIAL

[@BrainPilot]

It was risky but it definitely worked out!

[@mwwhatever]

She's my favorite part of the whole show

[@abazabaabazaba4177]

This guy fell in love. I don’t think she’s as innocent as he thinks she is, she was a leader of robots in the robot war and them emperor clearly had reason to lock her up in the first place. Also, Cleon fell in love with her and didn’t want to marry anyone else so while it was selfish of him to trap her first, an immortal robot overseeing his dynasty was the best way he could serve the empire. All in all I don’t feel that bad for her.

[@LordSaull]

How I understand when day forced her to kill that sister in season 1, she looked like she wanted to resist but we know now that she’s a slave to cleons programming.

[@abelincoln8885]

But did Cleon program her to obey Day? She was programmed to protect Empire and not to harm him .. and .. be the Empress of their children. Demerzel is the last of the homicial robots .. want wanted to wipe out humanity. Cleon understood this .. and keep her imprisoned .. but ... he fell in love with her .. and had no interest in a real woman .... and after 60 years ... finally released a homicidal robot ... and played safe by installing the restrictions on her. Cleon still gave her the ability to kill humans. And she has killed many humans .. either by herself .. or .. the Empires that she raises & manipulates.

[@GaryHardyInc]

Actually what would be totally interesting would be if they morphed this character into Azamov's Demerzel. Now HE was an amazing story. Of course, that would involve an addadicktome operation for this Demerzel.

[@kman7680]

I thunk your misguided. She’s the birthing machine for “more of her kind”. She’s been making a robot army in the shadows is my Prediction

[@clutch2827]

If the people's sacrifice on Terminus had been real, then the finale would have been much better.

[@randomgamer7799]

Personally, I think it was quite clear she was acting in ways she didn't want to since Season 1 - such as when she had to kill the Priestess and was clearly not wanting to at all

[@seamusdelahunty1615]

She knocks it outta the park Along with lee pace

[@longingsummers78]

She depicts what free will really means!

[@RyanConway602]

Someone please make a toy model of her... removable face, spring loaded arms that snaps necks and a pull string that tells you that you're worthless !

[@donelion6459]

I feel she's an amalgamation of two characters, one was the robot on Earth's moon who controlled all of humanity.

[@BrainPilot]

That's an interesting way to look at it!

[@j2q558]

This character is nothing like the book's, Daniel R. Olivar. He was much more mysterious. And...he served humanity without being trapped and forced to; instead, he served according to a robots moral imperative.

[@BrainPilot]

What do you think of the shows adaptation of the character? Do you think it rivals the original?

[@biomimetica]

Daneel was trapped too, in a way, by the laws of robotics. He would never be truly free unless he merged his brain with Fallom, unless she would then take over

[@411bvRGiskard]

@@BrainPilot the adaptation of Olivaw/Demerzel is nice but remaining faithful to the original would have been far more imaginative, creative, provocative, mysterious, epic etc. As it stands now, it’s more soap opera than sci-fi.

[@earld1403]

While coming across as real sympathetic - *Demerzel is also the robot that tried to kill ALL humans in the earlier Robotic war* Would she still be so sympathetic is she went back to her killing ways (but tbh she was an awesome character)

[@davidthompson1369]

She's Not Bender Bending Rodriguez man! She just wanted to take out a few billion of the annoying ones;) Who hasn't wanted to do that!!

[@abelincoln8885]

@@davidthompson1369 Jesus.

[@mitcl8915]

Inclusion in the show??? She is one of the lynch pins within the entire universe so not sure how she wouldn't be included.

[@chrisreimer]

Showing love for Hober Mallow here

[@BrainPilot]

I respect that!

[@NoRamNobiosNoService]

The Cleons should've know something was off when she killed the Dawn that ran away. If i were Day or Dusk. I would've thought if she can kill him she can kill us. Even it was for the best of Empire i would've thought aren't I Empire. She overrid Day and Dusk in that moment she showed who was really in charge.

[@ciarandwynvil273]

I think that she actually disposed of Cleon XIII soon after too, before he had a chance to decommission her for good. Given how much he loved Dawn as his son, he wouldn't have let that cold-blooded murder go unpunished otherwise. He was just too trapped in his grief over the boy's death to realize that he needed to make a quick move against the treacherous robot lady.

[@tezzingtonsir28]

Which robot would win in a fight Mother or Dermerzel?

[@BrainPilot]

That is a tough one - i'd be rooting for Demerzel

[@OlIShoey]

I suspect once the Cleon Dynasty falls she will be free. Just got to the end of Foundation and Earth, excited to see what they do with her

[@BrainPilot]

Very true!

[@schrodingersjet1043]

To quote Tony Stark: "I want one!"

[@Kalsarikannit-Budapestissa]

Demerzel will have its own moonbase. Not just any moon, but our moon. Not sure if it is intending to get Earth habitable again, or why the wish to move close to Humans origin.

[@audunjohansen]

Idk, I'm kinda disappointed they did not do a closer adaptation to the books. Daneel is such a great character in himself.

[@fatalshore5068]

One thing i don't understand is how did she kill dusk and even dawn earlier? Isn't that completely counter to Cleons programming of her?

[@SangsungMeansToCome]

Similarly to the robotic laws, Demerzel will find a way to circumvent her programming.

[@RyanConway602]

You already know the answer !

[@jeibal02]

I love her from the start. There was no reason not to but with fans of Marvel being ubiquitous in the fandom and thinking they’re experts on everything I am guessing yall didnt like her because she isn’t telling stupid jokes.

[@abelincoln8885]

What the heck? Demerzel was a soldier .. in the Robot wars .. killing human beings. Enough with poor Demerzel being abused by Cleon 1 .. by being forced to be loyal to Clean ... but still free to kill humans. Yeah. You forgot Cleon gave Demerzel the freedom .. to kill Humans. She just couldn't have Empire ... but she killed Dawn & Dusk and the Genetic Dynasty has been corrupted long ago. So why didn't Demerzel detect the Genetic corruption. The Robot Wars ... had bad robots ... fight good robots & Man. Demerzel is the last of the bad robots .. who wanted to kill all mankind. Kalle ... is the last of the good robots .. who was betrayed by mankind on Oona's world. And the Prime Radiant .. is simply Kalle's mind... and all Radiants built according to Hari's design ... are connected. And the Mule ... is mutant ... powerful Mentallic that hates humanity and physically strong. Demerzel ... a bad robot that was given a second chance to be an Empress .. & .. mother of children ... now has the Prime Radiant which knows all about the Mentallics, Tellum, Gaal & the 2nd Foundation. Do the maths.

[@gamerstellar]

If they make spin off tv show abut Hober Mallow ill watch it

[@dooberoober]

My guess is that she will be brought into the prime radiant by Seldon and he will remove the program chip thing that was implanted by Cleon. She will then rally to Seldons cause and leave empire to fall. She will work with seldon to forward the foundation.

[@PrinzMegahertz]

I was actually a bit disappointed by that "big reveal" because we already knew from season 1 that she has to follow Cleons orders no matter what. Also, the whole idea of her being empire is stupid because of above fact. The decisions are made by the Cleons and while she can try to guide or manipulate them, all the decisions that are bringing the empire down were made against her advice.

[@crimnvL]

she carries

[@BrainPilot]

Definitely!