Why Did Fortnite Fail To Become A Top Esport?

[@shenko_]

Watching battle royales as an esport makes Overwatch the easiest esport to spectate, lmao.

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

True lol. It's just hard to take Apex seriously when so much of it is dictated by how lucky you get Who cares if you're a god at the game, if the circle isn't in your favor or you don't get the good loot from the get go you lose.

[@shenko_]

@@Reyes_Ferrufino Which is why I have so much hope for the arenas Battlemode, because it seems like a gamemode that would be perfect for arena fps esports.

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

@@shenko_ I do agree with you there,. They might have a tough time even getting enough people caring about arenas for it to become an event in their tournaments, but i do think it arenas make for a obviously better competitive environment than BR

[@Koriiii]

@@Reyes_Ferrufino Hopefully Arenas gets a more frequent esports scene because it’s actually interesting.

[@shiverian5970]

@@shenko_ I think the issue with arenas is that there are already similar games with deeper mechanics and esports scenes out there. I mean, Valorant anybody? Obviously it's not exactly the same but it's hard for a team to invest in some side mode of Apex rather than Valorant.

[@thedofflin]

I was an in-game observer for one of the Fortnite events and I can confirm that spectating was a nightmare. We had 8 observers split into 2 squads of 4 with 1 of those being a drone cam and the rest focused on either POV or close drone. The crazy amount of communication required just to understand what was going on, let alone find the right shots within minimal time in this fast-paced game, it just always felt impossible. I think we always ended each game feeling more exhausted than the players. That's not to mention the insane amount that goes on behind the scenes to set up 100 booths with 100 PCs which cannot afford to have an technical difficulties - when you have that many PCs your efforts are statistically outnumbered.

[@cupricqiviut8265]

Wow. Interesting perspective, thanks for the comment!

[@rianan6620]

i dont like BR as esport because what you said here, but my friend actually find good analogy. BR esport is like MotoGP or F1. you watch bunch of people doing same thing. but what make BR failure as esport is its too many action. and yes, setting 100pc and make it like giant wedding cake on venue is stupid. 😂😂

[@cupricqiviut8265]

@@rianan6620 Agreed my friend.

[@omarveleski8244]

Just use the Epic Games spec tool? Dumbass.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

I watched a few PUBG and warzone tournament and it was a nightmare

[@QuestionableLogic_]

I remember when DOTA fans banded together to donate to their tournament prize pool just so Fortnite wouldn't have the title of largest prize pool. I didn't even play DOTA but watching that was glorious.

[@sera48g]

as they should honestly

[@Dyleniz]

Yea I remember the threads saying "we got to buy BP levels"

[@Zanchcrow]

Valve is just raking in the cash without even trying. Before the dota netflix series, I have literally seen 0 attempts by valve to attract new players to the game

[@Meow_Meow_Hurts_Real_Bad]

Good

[@joash4332]

@@Zanchcrow no ads on youtube, no sponsors at TI.

[@callmelunaVEVO]

Fortnite’s just had an identity crisis for what felt like a solid year. Trying to appeal to both casuals and the competitive scene really drove me away from the game. …That and the predatory FOMO from season passes. I’m kinda glad it’s found a more casual goofy identity as of late though.

[@yourefckingmad6167]

Epic’s inability to chose between casuals and pro, has made both parties mad at each other and at epic, which made most players leave…

[@RassiArt]

Yeah honestly the game is much more fun casually with friends.

[@thadex454]

It’s too casual

[@ILuvBayonetta]

@@thadex454 Eh I find sweats in EVERY SINGLE GAME. I just wanna play against people who don’t spend 12 hours in creative sweating on everyone. Because I don’t play that much

[@Kpop_stole_foids_fromcurrycell]

casual or not all depend on you lol.

[@madsiesOW]

personally, battle royales shouldnt be esports, its just how they play out and how loot has to be randomly generated and how one player can just get caught out by 4 separate people at once. Nothing against the games though, i only played the first 2 seasons of fortnite, i feel too old for it now but it was innovative

[@brainbox9219]

You should let Apex Legends Global Series know that

[@nothingherezero7182]

I mean Mobile Br esport are doing good probably because It team base

[@lemmyboy4107]

@@brainbox9219 Even Apex is far away from really being a big esports. Valorant, a game that is barley a year old, can top Apex. You can have a esport in BRs but it will never be a big one.

[@chrisgkini3180]

@@lemmyboy4107 i mean if u go on twitch rn apex has more viewers than valorant does 142k (apex) - 72.5k (valorant)

[@majesticmo5048]

@@chrisgkini3180 right now yeh but tenz alone averages more views than most apex players and tournaments. Heck valorant championship tour gets more views than apex tournaments

[@crazyduckthing1210]

Another issue is how luck based the game is. While other games have chance mechanics, who wins in a Fortnite match is largely defined by who happened to get the best weapons. Edit: I turned off reply notifications for a month and accidentally created a comment war without realising it :|

[@GumshoeClassic]

And most importantly, there's no way to alter said luck. Contrary to card games, where building a consistent deck is part of the challenge and you have a lot of influence on those luck-based factors.

[@azap1378]

Yeah, and it seems like fortnite got the worst of it. Correct me if im wrong since i dont play the game, but even another br like apex has a lot of systems in place that minimizes rng (ex certain tier loot in certain areas, some abilities to grant certain things, etc

[@crazyduckthing1210]

@@azap1378 The main difference with Apex is that the best loot comes from care packages, so in the end everyone has a pretty similar loot pool. In Fortnite there is only ground loot and chest loot, both of which are very easy to come by and therefore just a lottery.

[@elgatotv5311]

@@crazyduckthing1210 there are air drops in Fortnite but it only grants an epic weapon and some healing but that's it.

[@DavidA.21]

*Laughs in Ping*

[@5000KAITOSHION]

it could really help if they have an "eSports mode" where certain wacky weapons/broken casual weapons are banned just like how smash has items turned off

[@fantasyforger]

they took off new broken items in their arena tho

[@Gabriel-sd1oh]

it only took them 2 years lmao

[@supremechaosbeing2696]

I feel like most games should have a mode where there isn't luck based stuff for speedruns or whatever

[@sideeswipe]

@@fantasyforger Uh ya that should’ve happened years ago and things like the planes and infinity blade never should’ve existed in the first place

[@yerpedy]

to a certain extent they do, with arena mode, but its still got a lot of problems

[@hannesbaum9318]

Its simple: their developer wanted to develop a casual game while having designed a verry competitive game, as well as their bosses invested tons of money into their esport while pushing completly broken items/content out Edit: their game sucked so hard in Performance that the spectator had immense lag spikes while WC

[@Cybrtronlazr]

They didnt design a competitive game though. Luck means anti competitive. Sure there is some strategy, that's why there is a national Poker tournament and stuff even though its luck based, but so much of it can go wrong and the whole genre was meant for casuals. Their biggest mistake was supporting the competitive scene, it should have stayed casual but maybe they could have implemented arenas better.

[@chiga3388]

Yeah its the exact opposite, a very luck-based game that only works as a casual experience and then Epic tried to push for it to be an esport

[@dieptrieu6564]

@@Cybrtronlazr It's not just luck. It's about controllable luck. Use poker as an example. You have many thing to do even when luck isn't on your side. Like bluffing or just fold to prevent loss. In fortnite, if the game decide your luck is shit. Then you can't do anything about it

[@MrAsh1100]

@@dieptrieu6564 Not only that, you have to look at the audience. Is it fun to watch? Is it engaging? Can you follow what the players are doing? And well, is it fun to watch? If someone is running around with a broken Infinity blade and just crashing everyone, well, it wouldn't be fun cos its too one sided. Maybe the fun can come from the unpredictability but there's only so much you can do with that. Also the numerous bs by Epic but that's an entire different thing altogether

[@dieptrieu6564]

@@MrAsh1100 Yeah, viewers experience is also a big factor. However, i was talking about game mechanic. Fairness should be the most important thing when it come to any kind of sport regardless of physical or digital. BR lack that fairness due to the RNG

[@seabornostrich1253]

Apex seems to be doing a pretty good job of keeping an eye on all the action in their Esports games

[@livingreverie5951]

thats the thing, Apex has people that understand the esports scene Fortnite tragically Does Not

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

And even then they still are kind of struggling, because the battle royale style of gameplay is so unfair and luck based for a competitive environment

[@dearickangelonej.legaspi6686]

Apex's class based system allows for some strategy to be included that allows it to be skill based and teamwork oriented games, unlike Fortnite's building system

[@seabornostrich1253]

@@Reyes_Ferrufino true however that luck and unfairness makes is very fun that little bit of luck means the best team isnt always slotted to win

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

@@seabornostrich1253 i cam see the appeal on things like annunderdog comeback, but ik the end the better teal should always be the Victor. Events that wipe out the best team and an underdog winning a tournament is not as important as when it happens in other esports because you know they had alot of luck going for them, where in other games it's super hype because you know they 100% deserved it as they played better than the expected winner

[@DwarvesGotAxes]

I personally hate the kill race system in Warzone. What fun is it to watch pro players stomp randoms ?

[@broomlord8557]

I think Battle Royale games in general just don't work as competetive games since there isn't really a great scoring system due to how the game works at its core and it's not very spectator friendly

[@shopkeep9710]

Imagine youre playing chess and you start with 4 pawns and the other guy has 10 queens

[@StephenMeyerr]

How does this relate to fortnite

[@kevinreynoso3893]

@@StephenMeyerr It's basically a comparison to Fortnite's RNG.

[@BarrackObama348]

@@StephenMeyerr u got a small brain or something, kid?

[@majesticmo5048]

@@StephenMeyerr who raised you?

[@StephenMeyerr]

@@majesticmo5048 I'm an orphan

[@envysart797]

Just the way this game is designed makes it fairly brutal to spectate. A fair amount of RNG goes into it too, which doesn’t make for a fun competitive scene.

[@slydemise5349]

Weird how a lot of comments keep saying RNG. It seems to you like RNG, as you have no idea what you're watching. The only randomness involved is loot and zones. A BR without randomness in zones would be trash for obvious reasons. Loot can be upgraded and competitive has 100% chest spawn and floor loot, so players who know their rotations should have blue plus 90% of games. Even then, beforehand, if you're complaining about randomness that's like saying let's just take away every other shotgun except pump. Well, that then ruins the game for players who have a play style designed around preferring these guns over the others. As some are better in particular situations. Including with editing, players can form a more aggressive or poke style with their weapons close or ranged.

[@Guest-qo9px]

Fave malt sombody with logic

[@hakzource8660]

Battle royales aren’t honestly good for esports, because they involve more RNG loot and less actual skill. Also fortnite is mostly children nowadays and there’s not really anything about it that stands out anymore

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

Agreed. BRs are too RNG to forge a competitive scene like the ones LOL, valorant, OWL or CS:GO have

[@euqinemor]

Apex is actually very solid even with RNG to the point there is TSM, the team that won most tournaments by consistently being on top 5 of every match despite the weapons they get as Apex takes balancing weapons seriously with few mistakes in the past (disruptor rounds, Bocek bow, mozambique ), was the first BR to actually do justice to shotguns from the get to go while in both PUBG and FN if you had one at the final rounds you are dead (you win if the other guys sucks). The team composition also fixes a lot of RNG in both loot and circle rotation to the point at the end of the day the team that wins are those that made the best decisions since they are all pros and are on the same lvls of basic skills (movement skills, aiming, team play).

[@jacobileoo1941]

@@euqinemor thats cuz the guns are actually somewhat kinda balanced.

[@GGGG-cb6vm]

if we are talking about solo/trio cash cups yes but in dream hack, FNCS no that much consistancy reall showS up commandment edgey, and cented have place 2 in 4 FNCS in a row and most of the team qualed for Fncs Grands are well known pros so only problem is the new system with that amount of rebbout rounds

[@Woef718]

@@euqinemor still I really hate how much different kind of armors you have in apex. Sometimes you really lose because someone just has a gold armor while you can have been searching and searching for a blue armor.

[@gamerkingdom1442]

Hmmm. Yeah, even I who still play Fortnite, couldn’t see this game like a ESPORT. It’s too casual for its own good. 100 Players, Giant map, random items. Also, one of the strengths of many Esports is the diverse options of each player. For example, in fighting games, it’s not only how good the player is, but how he uses the character on a fight. No 2 players will use one character the same exact way. Same with Hero Shooters and MOBAs. Team comp can make a difference. In Fortnite, EVERY PLAYER is exactly the same. There’s no diversity in tactics, just in items.

[@SyncGrave]

There is plenty diversity in tactics and strategies. Adding abilities would just be weird and distract the game from its main focus which is building.

[@godsoffice5714]

I don't know who you are but thanks for spelling esports right. Idiots these days like to call it eSports or e-sport like it's some kind of product little did they know grammar matters for a reason.

[@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672]

@@SyncGrave the main focus is building? so fortnite is maincraft huh

[@fuscello]

Every game with character has like 80% more possibilities to become an esport than any other type of game, apex is the most competitive in its genre and it has characters (cs go is the only exception to this rule)

[@SyncGrave]

@@victoralejandrotrimmerestr3672 cringe

[@alex_oiman]

esports and rng dont mix well. this is a problem apex has too. >competitive >rng pick one

[@sinneryy8662]

Apex has it good imo, similar to PUBG, where any gun could be good, without a Legendary/Epic/Rare/Uncommon/Common system, a gun is a gun and you get attachments which arent necessary but good to have

[@coffeedq9061]

@@sinneryy8662 it also specifies which areas give gokd loot. Even off the map, if you look in the top left when entering an area, it says either Common, Uncommon or Epic loot.

[@pedromoreno2829]

yeah thing is, guns are ngl really easy to come by, i play apex legit every day, its sooo easy to come by good gun. you have to be unlucky to come by good guns and either way there are other ways of getting good loot such as playing loba, crafting etc, there are soo many ways to lower the rng towards a point that its non existent in apex which is why its competitive scene is relatively succesful

[@Daniel-lx7hn]

Fortnite doesnt have an esport scene, it has a casual competitive scene with load of money.

[@ajwaddanwarr3409]

It really had massive potential but it felt like Epic gave up on it rather than restructuring parts of their team for it. You can't make a competitive when all of your devs play the game causally.

[@zbyszekkiebasa906]

You can't make a competetive game when you can't even make a ranked ladder

[@Pancakesss]

I completely agree I play fortnite today and It makes me cringe rage and other things it totally feels like epic puts no effort into development and puts all its dev group on design

[@corndogguy2373]

@@Pancakesss i dont play fortinite, but seeing as epic has made multiple deals with other companies to get their skins in the game, the epic devs kinda gave up on it being the “big game” anymore. They understand that although the game is not technically dead, its player base is so low compared to what it was. Feels like epic just gave up and is now trying to leech as much money as possible before the game is fully dead.

[@ajwaddanwarr3409]

@@corndogguy2373 They are doing the World of Warcraft strategy where you keep it casual enough so people try, especially below 12 year old kids where the real money is and retaining your whales. A game is only truly dead when no one pays for it. Its a cynical attitude that is now permeating throughout the industry which is sad.

[@armorbearer9702]

I completely agree. They should have put the millions of dollars into developing a competitive game mode rather than putting it all into prize money.

[@QuestionableLogic_]

I miss Save the World. I mean good for them that BR was profitable but the fact it had to die for it's little brother hurts. Obviously I don't mean literally, but it's more of shell of it's former self.

[@Xo-Yanga]

I still have a ps4 trophy called shelter skelter. Only 3 percent of ppl have it. Man scammer get scammed were the days. 😔

[@QuestionableLogic_]

@@Xo-Yanga Scammer get scammed was a terrible trend

[@ryanmiller555]

RIP Paragon

[@vamoacalmarno3868]

Wait what? You can't play StW anymore? I swear I still access it to claim my daily reward

[@ethereal3336]

??? its still around lmao, just because it got overshadowed by BR doesnt mean its "dead", people still play it.

[@lo-fi8481]

Battle royale should never be an e-sport genre. It’s based too much on RNG and the fortnite e-sport is incredibly boring as nothing ever happens until the last 3 minutes of a match

[@noobsaibot4541]

*laughs in Apex legends*

[@perrylets]

@@noobsaibot4541 Same thing. The problem is with BRs, not with what game it is.

[@lo-fi8481]

@@noobsaibot4541 still too much RNG based gameplay

[@Meow_Meow_Hurts_Real_Bad]

Look at PUBG, and Free Fire, those games are hugely popular as E-Sports.

[@mickd9398]

@@lo-fi8481 The variance evens out over several matches. The predecessor to esports are trading card games which are high variance.

[@cmdr.lochagos]

I think the biggest factor holding BRs back from esports is how much of an effect luck has on a match. In most other competitive esports games having bad luck isn’t an immediate game ender. In games like CSGO or Valorant, if your team hits a batch of bad luck, there’s still other rounds to make up for it, or change your strategy to account for it midgame, since it’s a first to 16. In MOBAs like LoL, while bad luck can be pretty devastating, there’s still the rest of the match to make up for it, the game ain’t over until your Crystal(or equivalent) is destroyed. But in BRs if your team runs into a single bout of bad luck and gets wiped, it’s gg. There’s nothing you can do about, you’ve just lost. Which I think hurts it’s Esports potential.

[@mvtplayerzero2358]

Epic may have given up on in person competitions for 2021 a bit early, but the competitive side of fortnite works better the way they do it now. FNCS have a broadcast for the bigger regions and if you want to watch a certain team in the finals, most of the time one player streams.

[@creul_satxn9676]

Exactly fortnites made competive hub has been online. It was of the easiest games to start competitive in

[@OArthurFeital]

I can only speak for myself but I absolutely despise the whole "building" aspect of the game and it prevents me from playing it

[@fatmouse4279]

That’s the entire reason why fortnite became popular lol

[@tutorialsimulator]

that's nothing to do with the competitive side of the game tho :/

[@primepikachu5]

Fortnite knew it's limitations as a genre and appeal and decided to focus on that honestly I applaud epic for knowing what their audience wants

[@LargeInCharge77]

Yeah honestly it's just not made for Esports at all. I get to therapy pool that are really good at it but you should look towards different games that are actually designed to be played in a competitive atmosphere, games that are trying to appeal to a bunch of children by constantly having wacky new updates. I like fortnite but I'm not blind to what it is

[@Yiffbait]

Too many uncontrollable random elements ingrained in the gameplay itself, which is very unfriendly towards competitive gameplay, it was doomed from the start and was only fed with Epics own pockets

[@ventura535]

I dont think it was the rng, it was more than the guns arent actually ballanced and the rarity system only makes it worse, for example look at apex, its "thriving" on its own because the guns are actually ballanced, you arent doomed if you dont have certain guns and stuff like care packages (which contain the really good stuff) are mainly obtained vía skill even if their spawns are random

[@Cezkarma]

Honey get the kids, it's a new Akshon video! I would honestly love to see you guys cover competitive Pokemon at some point and the competing VGC vs Smogon formats.

[@wisemonkey8485]

Most of the popular Esports are either teambased or has a high skill ceiling. And Fortnite doesn't fully commit to either of these as they want to please more to the casual players by having gamebreaking updates like mechs.

[@tristen777]

Fortnite has an extremely high skill ceiling dude.

[@Tehnooblime]

High skill ceiling doesn’t matter if you cant balance the game properly

[@pxalm]

im pretty sure epic now excludes the gamebreaking shits out of comps and still keep it for the casuals

[@dudethisusername7285]

@@ORiGiN-ip1kk high skill ceiling doesn't mean jack when competition is so unbalanced. Plus, the controller's auto aim is BROKEN! It's an fing joke to say aiming in that game takes skill lmao

[@MrByambaa602]

@@ORiGiN-ip1kk lmao what 😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🧢🧢🧢

[@thacool101]

I played like 2 games of Fortnite when it first dropped and never liked it i still don't understand how it's so huge or had an eSports team

[@theotherjared9824]

What many misunderstand about a good esports game is that the most important party is the spectators. The actual game can be a masterpiece, but no one will watch it if it's not visually clear enough. Fortnite unfortunately falls into this category due to the large maps and players make capturing every important moment in an understandable way impossible. No viewers mean no sponsors, making tournaments no longer feasible.

[@UltimateTS64]

On top of all the issues mentioned, I personally feel that the game just changes too dramatically too often. Like if I stop playing for like a month or 2, then check back just for nostalgia's sake, I come back and there's always some new ridiculous mechanic like the mechanics and planes awhile back, I just hate the inconsistency

[@LargeInCharge77]

Yeah it is very clearly not at all designed for competitive play

[@connorwebb1299]

NO BR game in general should be considered an e-sport, "e-sports" in general has ruined BRS

[@Patrick-yk6qi]

How dare you remind me of the perfection that was OG fortnite, by showing clips from the start of the game and the sound of the sweet sweet lobby music😭

[@noirox4891]

I feel you, I still have the promo codes from the mid-sized stand at Fortnite's first gamescom. The concept was fun before the children took over.

[@QuestionableLogic_]

@@noirox4891 You wanna send one of those promos my way? (Provided they're still valid that is.)

[@Pancakesss]

Lol old fortnite was great in my opinion it stopped being fun after season 9

[@majesticmo5048]

@@Pancakesss it stopped being fun after season 4

[@Blitzkit]

the most obvious issue would be "which to watch" and 100 players probably only 20-10 players would be given attention. imagine if some good outplays happened but they weren't on screen because it's showing ninja farming woods, or looting. see where I'm getting? that's why solo/duo battle royales aren't really a good esports choice. team battles might've a chance as they're clustered and are easier to view have like 30+ choice of teams (not players) to view (but it's still a lot rather than 2 opposing teams fighting) you can't even see 100% of the time all the high mechanical/technical outplays peak league of legends esports has to offer.

[@GumshoeClassic]

I doubt it could ever really garner a proper, long term tournament scene, 100 players is too much, luck is too much of a factor and the game lives from big updates that shake stuff up. However, the most important thing, in my opinion, is that the best way to play is usually very safe. The big streamers are entertainers first and foremost, they play to *entertain.* Not necessarily to do their very best to win. If you cut that factor the gameplay can become very stale to watch.

[@GGGG-cb6vm]

cash cups normally tent to be a really agressive play style specially solos set lobbies are more dependent of rotations and doing well in end game and what is your game plan normally if you want to a great game is by risking eomzo, tahi suicidal launch pads to height yeah in the other hand we have Comandment, edgey and cented a really consistent team playing lowground have place 2 in FNCS grands 4 seasons back to back they are a big consistant team but deyy mero reverse have won 2 FNCS by going for crazy place as solo and big clutches and In NAW the same team has won most of the FNCS epikwhale arkham and rehx 5x winners in SET lobbies theres not really a ton of RNG trio/duo are the most competitive gamemodes that always the most consistent team will perform well solo is kinda a ton mess in reality you will see the T1 T2 pros in every FNCS/major tournament of the season you could say loot pool is unfair but they had try to adjust the guns nerfing purple and gold spaz was something needed when you fought a epic spaz and you have a green pump there was a lot of diference now is better the Epic spaz is rewarding but not to unfair for the other player most pros will outplay worse players most of the time if you want to win or place higly in cash cups you need to be aggresive to win a 20+ fisrt game is needed if you want a posibility of placing highly and it depends a lot in the format dreamhack format rewards a lot kill so a agressive playstyle tent to be better tayson has never won a dream hack its not his best format bit in FNCS format tayson is really good player the gamplay can be kinda stale in mid-game is mostly surge routs and seeing the rotations end in other hand is really graet to watch specially in moving zones in early game is mostly seeing the contested drops and watching them fight the onlyt big issue is that a constested team will most likely perfom bad that the biggest problem that I see in comp whileother are uncon some of them need to 50/50 they drop spot some teams would be really good if they aren´t endretta has drop steamy stacks for 4 season and only in 1 FnCs GRANDS has have uncon drop in taht fncs they got 2 but in the other FNCS they have contested steamy and they don´t place higly on grands is the biggest problem is comp

[@8bitorgy]

You can't have official sponsors when your game is juggling rights of so many IPs. You'd have to ok the sponsor with every holders of every IP

[@az1268]

For the people saying stuff about “rng” it’s not an issue for pros that make it into set lobbies because if they’re not contested they have an entire poi to themselves it’s only open lobbies in cash cups and early fncs qualifier matches that have rng and that’s not too bad for pros because they’re pros

[@IPFGaming]

Best fortnite tournament was fortnite Fridays hosted by keemstar and UMG, period. No one even comes close.

[@MrZer093]

They would need to make their own competitive mode and lobbies for it to be an effective esport and that seems like it would be way more work and money than it would be worth. I’d say just focus on making it fun for the casuals and make it a fun streaming experience that can be effectively monetized for the streamers and you’re good,

[@t-_-t4046]

Another reason is that at lan tourneys, Epic allows only one or two companies branded on jerseys of players representing an org. Gives esport orgs a much more incentive to not sign fortnite players since they’re partnerships can’t be advertised and such. Lousy decision on Epics part tbh.

[@HappyFishy699]

They don't even have a separate weapon pool for comp so of course their not trying their most to make a truly competitive experience

[@abbasomar182]

They have now

[@HappyFishy699]

@@abbasomar182 it's not the best tho

[@mirrored464]

They dk

[@Daw64]

epic hasn't really made anything broken this chapter and if they do it's never in competitive Also there’s storm surge it was added in chapter 1 season 6 a season after the summer skirmish. Storm surge means that every player in the match has to be within a damage threshold or else they’ll die to storm lightning it keeps players from just sitting in boxes 📦

[@DavidCruz-ix7dy]

Wasnt there also an issue where players where using bot accounts or alt accounts to boost and get them ton of items and ammo to help them win. I remember the first winner of the first major Fortnite tournament, he did that and Epic did nothing to him cause they didn’t want to openly say a cheater won there first tournament

[@sgt.yarpyarp144]

I don’t mind apex as an esport but it does definitely face all the challenges spectating as all the other battle Royale esports

[@pedromoreno2829]

yeah but the huge difference is there is way less to keep track of because of no building. altho end zones can be fucking crazy with gibby ults and the like

[@kofe87]

competitive should have been arena, round based settings

[@bakedbuninvasion]

>why did fortnight fail to become an esport Because the game has more in common with bingo than a fucking e sport.

[@StelmachsWorld]

Because battle royales aren’t an even playing field starting out… some people find scars while other people can only find grey ars in some games

[@switchcraft792]

My only main issue with watching battle royale games as eSports is spectating...like how am I supposed to watch them? There's so many fights I miss?

[@divanshu5039]

I consider Dota 2 as the best E-sports game ever built. With league and CSGO taking 2nd place. And I have played all of them.

[@scubasteve6175]

Have you played rocket league? It's extremely easy to spectate and equally as fun. I'd argue it deserves a top 3 for competitive viability

[@DKtrek21]

Things an esport should have to attract spectators: Skill Awareness Some RNG Tactical Exciting to watch Fortnite isn't spectator friendly game: Somewhat boring to watch multiple screens Very spread map out to the viewers Heavily relies on randomness Since it's on single player rather than a team, you don't see so many tactics at all. Also, if you dropped on a certain point where there are so much players and you have no gun, then game over. This RNG on steriods, from the start, mid game and finale, there is RNG. And IMO, the whole Battle Royale genre shouldn't be considered as an esport.

[@kaoko111]

As a fan of e sports for me the closer the scope the better. I follow mostly fighting games, in that regard most of them are 1V1 or in some rare cases 2V2 in games like Smash Bros and the whole thing is a single screen, easy to follow, easy to narrate, easier to relate to the players, better way to enjoy, the other i follow is Starcraft and is a bit harder but still easier to follow 100 players. Battle Royale games could be fun and all but unless You are following an streaming of a single good player could be a nightmare to do so.

[@slevin003]

Dont think battle royale is a good game type to spectate personally. The RNG of loot just doesnt feel competitive.

[@RebornDPK]

5:22 damn, its like when kirito use beam saber at ggo.

[@CloudKXII]

Wow who knew watching a rng base game tournament would be frustrating to watch. 🙄

[@TheXeeman]

im getting too old for this shit

[@RegoneFF]

btw about the prizepool the dota TI that is about to come up in October will surpass it with $40,018,195

[@Woef718]

I think battle royale is possible but with less players and being able to choose which person you wanna spectate or using bird eye prespectives you can realtime move around.

[@derekhan120]

i think you got it wrong when you talked about championships, as there are championship series every season, and tsm still has a fortnite team. the thing that decreases popularity was bc of lower prize pools, bugs, no patch notes, boring seasons etc.

[@eyeden819]

I used to be a hardcore fortnite player, like playing in small tournaments and sometimes scrimming pros, and it felt like with every update, the game just got worse competitively.

[@denotpyrc]

I love to see fortnite and failing in the same sentence

[@squidy3214]

Agreed

[@blakenutz0098]

Music to my ears

[@MekaniQ]

Bruh

[@razor9768]

I hate to say this here: What an epic gaming Reddit moment

[@creul_satxn9676]

I love how disscusions have gone from are gaming being a basic hobbie for kids to what makes a real esport

[@TheGoodguyperson]

Honestly fortnite was an esport just because of how much money was dumped in it Or else it had nothing going for it, the game's skill gap is so wide that most casual players cant keep up And some of the weapons or stuff epic add in dont belong in a competitive game or is just broken in general That plus the community being a massive circle jerk doesnt help epic know what to do Compared to other BRs, in games like apex or pubg, you need to be in the right position or do the best rotation possible to keep yourself alive Majority of fortnite esports was just staying in a box waiting to third party another player or leech as much as possible, to new people tuning in its boring to watch and no one really knows whats going on

[@phoenixly]

This was a super well made video. I think one of the largest problems with fortnite as an esport is its 13 year old age limit and how high the prizepools were at the beginning it created an incredibly toxic and greedy community and its so depressing because the strategy and potential for this game is higher than any other esport in the world

[@smug880]

i dont think it being BR is an excuse for it to be "hard to spectate". idk about warzone but i've seen some apex tournaments and honestly they're pretty watchable to say the least.

[@HappyFishy699]

Whenever I look at the fncs for fortnite yeah the players are really good at the game and skilled but it doesn't feel as good as like when I'm watching something from owl

[@d1pp1n_]

Spectating was an issue but I think one of the main reason was Covid and everybody got used to inside work and not lan events

[@antonsundin2974]

Difficult to follow for viewers and too much things happening that's outside of the players control, bad spawns, getting shot in the back etc etc.

[@inferno7242]

I feel like Fortnite is going through an identity crisis. Make the game more simple the casuals get upset because there's no content fill the game with wacky items the game becomes unplayable for the pros.

[@dust7962]

As somebody with top 100 placements what really ruined the game was being contested at the start of a match as your odds for doing well that game go down drastically because even if you kill that player you waste time AND resources. Then add into the fact during the midgame a random player can choose to waste all their resources and time fighting you if you do not eliminate them quickly, and players rarely choose to disengage. Not to mention the massive lag in endgames that made the game barely playable.

[@sebby8755]

For me it’s exactly the opposite, i like that you’re not guaranteed to be in endgame, you have to fight for it. It’s much more interesting to watch then Valo or other games

[@Haha-if9qf]

@@sebby8755 keep in mind there is The storm so if you fight outside The ZONE you Will almost guranteed to be screwed

[@Haha-if9qf]

Yeah The mid game is basically you’re playing chess against someone if you lose you’re out if you win you get The remaining piece is on that board like materials, you’re positioning outside The storm, and potentially a third party

[@airloaf3408]

Hopefully epic will focus more into Rocket Leagues esport as they bought that game in 2019, because fortnite isn’t built or updated as other esports are. Rocket league on the other hand is much easier to watch and understand what is going on

[@mukamuka0]

I think Epic was mismanage the tournament. In competitive championship, You don't necessary need to have same rules as in rank/casual game. The number of people at least in final match should be reduces to 10 at most, so people could keep up of who is who and allow to have emotional involve in the match. Also, create standardizes map for eSport not for Pro but for viewer to understand and know what is going on.

[@akirakenchieedquiban531]

Bruh naraka blade point could be a Esports and Gunz a reviving old game 😁

[@steinyjam]

It would be better if there is a World Cup next year and they let teams put stuff in the game, etc

[@WillRobertsVR]

Fortnite is a casual game that people play competitively. Something about that combination is tricky in esports.

[@mr.salvadore1666]

RNG loot cases, luck based encounters, gameplay being making the tallest tower, chaotic nature of battle royale, battle royal is basically if you dont engage you win. the rng in the game is fairly ridiculous if you get a good chest you have a higher chance of winning,

[@youraftermyrobotbee]

6:52 Dude got swatted? Man, this is such a ghoulish thing to throw in basically as a side note. Gamers are so fucked up, seriously.

[@leonzhang8675]

If you play arena or even pubs at a somewhat good level, every game feels like a tournament. Players are just so good at the game now, every one can double/trippl edit, box you, and piece control you easily. If you try to shut down your brain for even 3 seconds in a fight you will get totally destroyed.

[@cptmacmillan1111]

So what differs this from say Apex Legends? I understand from 100 players to 60 and a waaaaay smaller map makes it more manageable along with more balanced weapon sets which definitely helps but aside from that anything else? Where did Apex succeed where Fortnite didn't?

[@majesticmo5048]

Apex has different characters and abilities, team comps are Massimo part of apex, apex has less rng, certain places have better loot than others so it's up to the player to take risks to get them. Apex's shooting mechanics help fit the fast pace and ability usage and is way more enjoyable to watch than watching people spam turbo builds to outpace others. It's also way easier to spectate a mass of players in apex

[@sebby8755]

@@majesticmo5048 agree, but fortnite is fun to watch in a different way, fortnite would have never succeeded if there was no building and editing

[@phervil2774]

@@sebby8755 "fun to watch" if you are watching your fav streamer but an esport inst about watching 1 man and ignoring all the others. So, when they tried to not do that its when the problem starts for the audiance. Because theres a mix of a lot of players in the screen that actually makes the game look like a mess. I dont know why some people wanna force a casual game into an esport when it was never meant to be one. Esports are almost not realated to rng (theres some but it doesnt really change the game), and its more based on skill and strategy, while in fornite the guy with a better weapon its gonna win most of the times (if both has almost the same amount of skill).

[@1kirua_aim]

like they try and appeal to both the casual and competitive community and try and keep them the same as possible when they literally dont fkin need to, they are separate gamemodes i will never understand why they think they need them to be as close as possible, highest skill cap game in the world, but held back by the incompetent competitive decision making team

[@notleviathan855]

Apex is doing well, because well the game is fairly balanced. I know...there was a time when shit was broken, but the E-Sports scene in that BR game is actually quite nice. Fortnite, in the early days was fine adults played the game more than kids. Tournaments could be easily ran, but now you have these so called 8 year old fortnite pros trying to play against adults for millions. I stopped playing fortnite after the kids took over the game, they turned it into what it was, because the Devs wanted a casual game, which turned competitive. RNG kills games if it's not balanced. In Apex, rocking different guns is viable, there is no 'color' of guns which changes their damage. If you got an R9 and your enemy got an R9 ya'll gonna do the same damage if you hit the same shots, that goes back to SKILL. Not 'We have the same gun, but his is green, and mine is blue.' RNG and Skill don't go together, you could be the best player in the world, and get shafted by some default rocking a Gold Scar. Unlike in Apex, where there is no mystical golden scar that does like 50 damage a shot. BattleRoyals can be great if you took out the Magic Gun Rarity system.

[@1a_Teko]

They should give more opportunities to the teams to monetize, and to the players to carry publicity, and I also saw that it was filtered that in 2022 there will be a wolrd cup and I hope that it will be, it cannot be that I jump to the biggest video game to have the best , and now it turns out that I decline everything completely and it seems like I'm wasting my time

[@gedster]

So I have a LOT of thoughts regarding FN as a competitive game, but I'll sum it up as effectively as I can. Fortnite is the least luck based Battle Royale that ever hit mainstream. It's building/editing mechanic is universal and using it effectively can win you fights no matter what weapon you or your opponent has. I think that if Epic actually gave a fuck about balancing around competitive, Fortnite could have been a solid Tier 2 esport, but they very clearly, and understandably, didn't. I love Battle Royale esports a lot, PUBG, Apex, and Fortnite are all some of my favorite games to watch in general, but nobody has built the perfect BR competitive experience that has hit the mainstream yet. Darwin Project actually could have been the game to make BR esports truly incredible but that game is omegadead now so there's no way that will take off. Overall, I love watching BR esports, especially FN. But eventually the comp scene will completely die and then hopefully a new game in the genre will usher in a new era of BR esports.

[@coffeedq9061]

Honestly, if Epic just let tournament organizers do their things, someone like ESL or Dreamhack would make it work.

[@gedster]

@@coffeedq9061 that's the worst part, Dreamhack runs regular FN events and a lot of pro players prefer their format to the FNCS format, but DH is forced to keep their prize pools low because Epic is weird.

[@chrisdoe3642]

I never even played this game once, i even downloaded it. What scared me away compared to a game like Tf2 or even Wolfteam let alone League of legends was that Funfactor. The idea of building, running, hiding and being punished for trying to get kills by overall losing seems like work and not getting 1st place just kind of disgusted me away.

[@PathForger_]

The value proposition of a Battle Royale is that a large number of players get to compete towards a single objective, (and have fun doing so). I wouldn't count out the genre on the basis of RNG and poorer game design aspects alone.

[@hanselfinn8946]

Watching ants tiny people shooting pellet it's just so messy

[@lolxdlolmfaololxdd8879]

if battle royale esports rewarded players points for kills and winning only granted only a few points equal to about 3-4 kills, i think the genre would be a lot more interesting to watch although it kinda deters from the game’s original concept

[@supercrash804]

This is a horrible take

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Could be worse, you could be a Smash Bros pro. They get like $5K for winning a major with thousands of entrants, in a game that sold 25 million copies.

[@cashnelson2306]

Watching this as someone who has never played fortnite/am only vaguely certain what it even is and who people like Ninja are is like watching a video about some alternate universe. This dude I've never heard of who played some games with rappers is the face of gaming? Hot damn I'm out of touch

[@danka1167]

Tbf, he played with the most successful musician of all time

[@L-J]

Can they not just have a separate mode where all the wacky weapons arent in for export?

[@StarAZ]

It’s a lot more accessible and exciting to watch team sports like League or to play BR. I’m ok with it

[@TheLLSTesseract]

I personally find Apex to be the best and most viable br esport. It has very little balancing issues, continues to have less and less rng as time goes on with consistent loot and the evo shields aswell as the movement and gunplay opening up plenty of opportunities for exciting moments and game changing plays outside of just rotations and positioning. It's the least luck based br that I know of.

[@smilinggeneral8870]

character abilities makes the game less linear as well.

[@kaoshbe2881]

If wacky items were the problem why not make competitive lobbies not have those items is that difficult?

[@SeraNeph]

Battle Royale is random. Pure random has no place in esports. For example, the strongest player would end up get rekt by someone weaker or the winner turned out to not kill anyone and hide until until there's two left.

[@itstankcraft7221]

I'd say the reason its hard to stream is because unlike Pubg, Fortnite has a fast paced gameplay with its building system while pubg is just some normal shooting game but BR. Take PMGC who example.

[@Spider-Too-Too]

A game with 100 participants is just not as exciting to watch as a 5v5 or 1v 1 game

[@MisterS.]

I remember when Infinity Blade was a groundbreaking mobile game and not a gamebreaking item in Fortnite

[@peacemakerpewpew]

they said stadium was sold out but there are plenty of empty seats 6:28 Am I missing something?

[@em-bi4278]

do you guys have a podcast

[@LSIS12345]

Fortnite esport makes the clashes in mobas look watchable.

[@gibbyboi5703]

Well, they are easy to understand if you know how the game works

[@TerranViceGrip]

12 minutes to say that Battle Royale makes for shit eSports.

[@Hollowdude15]

If it never fail to be a esports then it would have been so popular at the time and cool video man :]