Why Did Paragon (2016) Fail?

Why Did ‪@Paragon‬ (2016) Fail?
This is just a short video detailing some of the design decisions that led to Paragon (2016) being cancelled by Epic Games.
Predecessor Early Access launches Dec 1st
Paragon: The Overprime Early Access launches Dec 8th
All footage used in this video is credited in the video.
Twitter: ItsSGXD
Music: Kingdom Hearts 3 OST - Chamber Of Remembrance
#paragon #epicgames #overprime #predecessor

[@ItsTommyGunz]

As I mentioned early on in the video, I didn't cover Fortnite's impact on the development of the game because that aspect of the story was covered very well in the "Death of a Game" video. I wanted the focus to be specifically on the design flaws of the original Paragon rather than the situation around it. While obviously the re-allocation of resources in the wake of Fortnite's success had an impact on the support that Paragon was getting from Epic, it wasn't the sole reason that the game was cancelled.

[@MargaLia]

I still cant forgive epic games for doing this. Will never touch their games due to that Great video u hit the nail on every point 👍

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Thank you!

[@RED24659]

Finally! Someone who covered the actual issues. Great vid! The Champ is gonna secure the biggest dub of his career! 🤞

[@TheNightNot]

I actually liked this video more than Death of a Game.

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Thank you so much! That really means a lot to me. I'll be making lots more content in the future, so stick around!

[@josefigueroa591]

Predecesor is what I’m rooting for, I love your assessment. I want fresh new hero’s then maybe sprinkle in some of the old ones nobody really cares for with some unique changes I love predecessors literally addicted to it rn can’t wait till it’s on Ps5 too and please have M&K support for ps5!!

[@DeadHatzGuy]

I was too late for paragon, just in time for predecesor

[@bringback_legacy6265]

Paragon's Legacy had the biggest potential for the game. Slow, methodical with the highest skill ceiling. The combat pace was truly perfect and gave players the opportunity to fight / cast their ability strategically. Right now, even without Travel Mode, Predecessor's combat pace is too fast and TTK is tow low. It really only reward players with twitch mastery. Overprime, is probably the closest in terms of combat movement and casting speed. While it's definitely not perfect, what the game does well is allow people with mechanical, strategic or teamwork mastery to contribute to the team.

[@albertoalves1063]

Perfect, none of them have the same feeling as Paragon had, Predecessor combat is too fast, you just get melted if you are only 2 levels below the opponent. OverPrime combat is better but don't look as good graphically and the map is too small.

[@joshwilliams4874]

Overprime mechanical? HA! they changed abilities from skill shots to lock on and implemented a master yi (league). Character in it, that "skill" will diminish fast. People also complain that fighting in predecessor is like fighting is a club, just a bunch of vfxs going off until someone comes out victorious. Pred feels like the closet and the best. I agree with TTK and dont know what twitch mastery is. Predecessor just feels like new dawn update tbh (which isnt the greatest, monoliths was the best imo), but in overprime i can feel the korean twist on it and i dont like it as much XD.

[@starvosxant4348]

With Paragon logo in your KZbin profile, i suppose you are a Paragon fan. So, as a Paragon fan, please, for the sake of the games memoty, dont PRONOUNCE the word "Overprime". This game is the shittiest piece of shit EVER made. Even Stalin vs Aliens is a better game. This game is a CRIME against Paragon memory to call itself Paragon sucessor. Sorry, when i talk about this game i really get my nerves raw. But please dont, dont talk about this game this game is HORRIBLE and UGLY and if theres something that Paragon was was a beautiful game and visually stunning. Even for todays standards if you watch old Paragon gameplay you'll confirm that. Overprime is not Paragon, and can take more 1000 years and it will not even get close.

[@espadose]

I highly urge you to revisit predecessor , it feels a lot better when n open beta state then the time this comment was posted 💯

[@Silly540]

I like Predecessor a bit more, reminds me of old school Paragon

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Same

[@StayedZues584]

I hate when people say this when legacy was much faster paced, even the map is the new paragon map Monolith… clueless sheep

[@Murathsufus]

​@@StayedZues584OK nerd

[@StayedZues584]

@@Murathsufus another one for the herd

[@Murathsufus]

@@StayedZues584 OK Nerd but dont Tell ya mama

[@JokerGamerV3]

My boy doing well with these videos man so proud 🫡❤

[@-v6]

seeing paragon again after so many years stunned me, man that game was gorgeous! amazing video aswell.

[@PeelowSnake]

you deserve more recognition, great video

[@muramasa870]

I wholeheartedly agree about new heroes being added. I wanna see new monster heroes like grux khaimera rampage sevarog, not f*king k pop stars

[@MrJeffreyrichards]

I swore one of the biggest reasons on top of all that was they dropped it and gave up due to getting so much money and popularity of fort night. Morgesh to me was awesome and unique the second global ult her release was far to strong though as it was mark a target throw the hive run back and ult and at level 6 you would kill just about anyone with that they nerfed her a ton after and you had to land two-three marks and a hive her turn into a swarm and move faster travel ability was also cool the giant swarm stab on the ult was cool as well.

[@greglyhoblit]

Yeah thats the reason, the player base was rather healthy but epic saw how massive fork knife could be so they wanted all resources on that

[@krissche1863]

Haha, felt good to hear that not only I am still watching Rob's old videos. Paragon was my first moba and I really liked the card system (the old one, not the latest before it was shut down).

[@WinduTheMaceGaming]

Great video watched it fully!

[@Accelerator4580]

put in about 20+ hours in Predecessor and have been enjoying it. Also I had no idea how people perceived Paragon to be p2w. I just grinded through it initially and found no issues. but i guess i am in the minority.

[@megananoman]

Ya same the cards and heros were all SO EASY to grind out. I never noticed it at all. Yet in 2022 overprime has heros locked behind paywall P2W and no one cares ;(

[@jharris6737]

@@megananoman Same, i never knew it was an issue until watching videos like these.

[@josemartinez-hq2vg]

I honestly think that Paragon was ahead of its time

[@StrissYT]

Great video!

[@rayjames296]

Great video and Predecessor has been a lot of fun

[@NoctyGUM]

good video, love that, i do subs u bro

[@chrisrush84]

Pretty accurate. RIP Paragon

[@DjSuperK]

It’s back tho! On steam it just came out on the 1st December it’s called predecessor and on the 8th paragon the over prime comes out

[@seemose]

I miss paragon. I thought it was solid and fun. Right when I mastered Howitzer they announced the game was going offline. I'm trying to find other people to play the overprime on steam.

[@albertoalves1063]

Paragon was perfect until mid monolith. I really like the 2 vs 1, I was able to destroy towers by my self with any solo lane hero, obviously Greystone was the best but I was able to do with Sevarog, Steel, Kwang and even Khaimera, the old card system was very easy to understand and I never spend a penny on and had all cards, I was really good in Paragon I was good with every hero. I'm playing Predecessor and played OverPrime, but none have the same feeling as Paragon did.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

I wish in general that MOBAs would have more animalistic and interesting heroes, than just humans.

[@Ghintech]

I’m really hoping that predecessor succeeds. Now that I’ve seen the road map ima have to grind out the levels till I get at least level 40

[@shawnboggs6209]

luckily predecessor early access is supposedly purely community responses

[@joshreyes4093]

Best Predecessor guide I've seen so far, actually helped explain roles and everything. Keep up the great work man! Earned a sub from me!

[@kenshin391]

I just wanna know why didn't they think of a console version as well for early access for Predecessor ? I mean it's not like console didn't have the most players at first. 🤷🏼‍♂ 👀

[@ItsTommyGunz]

They are making a console version as we speak! It will be out within the next few months.

[@kenshin391]

@@ItsTommyGunz I hope so

[@fmkguy]

Yeah... I loved the card system. It was honestly one of the biggest draws for me and I immediately bought the early access to alpha. It still hurts me to this day to see so many people dump on the card system. Building a deck was so fun. It was unique. Now it's just LoL or Dota or Smite with there brain-dead item shops. :(

[@MaiyrCordeth]

Exactly, sure they made a mistake with the loot style. But the cards were a great way to distinguish themselves.

[@dosears1229]

Feel like they could have both, item system, but also cards unique to heros, like steel being able to get more sheild on his passive, and lower cooldowns at the cost of stun duration and damage. Sorta like how Paladins does stuff

[@MaiyrCordeth]

@@dosears1229 they should have scrapped the item shop and redesign the cards system. Make all available immediately but allow you to build the deck you want to enter the match with. That way you can create multiple decks and select the one that feel appropriate with your team.

[@dosears1229]

@@MaiyrCordeth that's basically just having a build path Leauge lets you make a "deck" but with items, lets you choose what you wanna get first, down to the smallest component, all outside of the game, can even make them for specific heros. I don't think the item system is bad, and predecessor has alot more dynamic/more interesting items than alot of other mobas. Also have to consider, this game wants players, and it's gonna get them from other mobas, so it's beneficial in the game's early life to stick with something more traditional. I think a card system should come back in some capacity, to spice up leveling, maybe cards would cost a massive amount of gold, so you have something to build into after getting full build, or a lead, or the card works really well into their team comp, and you can save up longer for it. Or have the attribute points for cards and credits for items, making the game even more dynamic Item system is still a really good system in general, but I do agree that predecessor is in a unique position to bring something new to mobas with the card system

[@MaiyrCordeth]

@@dosears1229 minor correct, In original Paragon the only card you got to use were the ones you made for your deck. League\Smite\Dota have custom store tabs that you create of the items you know your gonna use. The difference being that in paragon once you have selected your deck to use that is it. You could not change mid game. You had to know you picked the right deck. LoL/Smite/Dota on the other hand you could build off your custom list but still change your build. Yes it restricted Paragon to some degree, you had to use the right deck whether it was a chaos nature Khameria vs a death order Khameria. Both can work but it depended on team make up and opponents. The right deck could make or break your game. Don’t get my wrong I understand why they went with the item shop instead while I argue they should item progression(Smite) over item crafting(LoL). We need to bring in new player to help this game flourish, it’s just something I missed.

[@1st-KillFreak]

My take, as a player who would have played that original game to this day IF they diddnt stuff up so badly. I loved this game, I was passionate, and sometimes passion comes out as being nothing but negative. For me, the map, layout, fast travel and general room around the map to farm was awesome. I dont want to be fighting enemy heroes every 30 seconds, sometimes I want to farm for my "next big item". I also enjoyed (You obviously diddnt) the card system. It was designed in such a way that each hero was either Magical, or physical, thus forcing players to make smart choices in draft phase, or be totally tuned out but easy card stacking. (I played tank allot, if there was 4 or 5 heroes of the same type, iod stack all of the same card, mix up the team between magic and physical and you make card selecting more balanced.) Just like in dota 2, the most popular game in history required people to make smart choices with their picks, or suffer when the time comes in game play. I liked the fact you couldnt just "spam" one hero, it make it more interesting, and the draft phase more relevant. So I remember the kids crying on the forums flat out, but the silent MAJORITY were not with these kids crying about game times, fast travel, inhibitor reincarnations and orb prime dunks. They then changed the card system AND hero system where each hero had a magic and a physical attack, making card stacking a one set suits all game style. (Wheres the skill in that? we went backwards in skill as kids wanted the old instant gratification of it doesnt matter what hero I pick, it should have been, I need to pick the right hero) Im so glad you bought up the hero releases "Every 3 weeks". The day that the love heart blowing, puppy dog asian charactor was released was truly the beginning of the end for me. I wanted to see some cool heroes too. I wanted, Gruxes Mother. (You have to be old school to know grux was only bested in combat by his grandmother.) I think the total downfall mad was releasing the new map. If they wanted shorter match times, why not give us the option, like quick match for the smaller map, and full game for the hour long grind to get gear. There was numerous reasons why this game lost interest for us older blokes: 1= No skill required or thought into draft or items, 2= Lack of hero variance (Give us some awesome heroes to play) 3= The map and fast travel was the big one for me. 4= Listening to the toxic kids in that community. I still remember it being the most toxic community of ANY game ive EVER played. As for the "loot box" argument, I never paid a dime to play paragon, I had all the cards I needed and plenty of skins I never paid for. I get the whole pay to win scenario tho, but I never paid and had no dramas with any of the initial cards. This was my thoughts, I loved OG paragon, I loved the old maps, the awesome charactors it had in the early stages, then slowly but surely it got erroded away to the point the game was not what it once was. Its like a bad relationship. "I dont miss you, I miss what I thought you were."

[@kongoslong4378]

I actually really enjoyed the card system in old paragon lol the designs on the cards were all really cool and it was fun fiddling with the deck to get it just right but I can admit new players were at a disadvantage against players who had been playing longer but in their defense old league was the same way with their old mastery system and it was the most popular moba in the world

[@harambereincarnate]

paragon could have been something if epic wanted it to. they happened to have the most popular game in the history of games in their hands at the same time. paragon didn't necessarily fail, it just happened to be developed at the wrong time. fortnite was far too lucrative - shifting all hands on deck to it was a no brainer. imo pred looks beautiful and cool but i can't see any reason to play it over smite until it reaches smites level of refinement in all aspects. smite is a very good game - it has issues of course, but if they continue to evolve it or even create a next gen version, I would not pick pred over it in its current state. it looks pretty but just doesn't feel as tight and refined as a competitive game should be.

[@espadose]

Smite refined ? Unbalanced characters and mostly the same picks every match is your idea of fun ? Not to mention smite autos and ability casting feels soo clunky compared to predecessor in its current state . If smite put ad much effort into gameplay fluidity and balance changes as much as they put effort into skins then smite would be as popular as league and dota . Pred is in open beta and feels leagues better than smite currently . Smite has the luxury of working on a sequel currently and gets to scope out the competition but as it stands imo pred is better even with way less content atm .

[@kacperk.1320]

Crazy lady aka Morrigesh was a very fun design! But yeah, the rest was basically hot lady or cool guy.

[@ghostkiller2110]

I remember when paragon first released and you had to charge up the sprint… the good ol’ days playing Sevarog, I miss em

[@Redjack23]

Enjoyed the video minus 1 of your topics. Match length WAS a topic the community discussed and didnt like. 1 hour avg game time is too long. Your fan base is gonna grow old (if the game lasts that long) and people didnt like sitting in 40 min games whilst being griefd. While i do agree that their efforts to shorten game time were bizarre i do think game length was an issue paragon had

[@imdeath6518]

Great video really enjoyed it but I doubt netmarble will listen to their community their games that were alive was pay2wins

[@prodbynoizey]

action packed game focused on lasthits? inspire in smite for example. Also jump (space bind) serves little to zero purpose if you cant get over small ledges. also bullets disappearing at random distance is kind off weird. it would be nice to see range increasing too..

[@swifti1001]

Oh no tyler streamed V.42+ LMAO That's the complete opposite of a big moment for Paragon

[@russ4550]

I didn't even notice this stuff tbh I did fine with less cards and unlocked stuff through gameplay quick enough that I don't remember being a big grind

[@arcanusluvalus1388]

I broke paragon right before the game was shutdown using murdock, i was deleting entire teams in less than 15 shots, hitting close to 777+ crit damage every shot.

[@faxslaps5775]

Monolith and fast travel was legit, fun and added more strategy. I left paragon shortly after monolith but predecessor is bad ass and really fun

[@OhTortuga]

Feels like OP is heading to this route too soon to tell yet

[@OneHellofaDragon]

Great video, it's nice to see other reasons why Paragon failed, I have high hope for Predecessor, I do also hope we get more cool unique designs and not just sex appeal champions but even league of legends is full of that stuff.

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Predecessor seems really good so far! I have a beginner's guide and a couple gameplays up, and I'm really having a good time with the game!

[@kyra9337]

I don't see nothing wrong with sex appealing designs. That be one of the reasons why I be attracted to playing games like this if the characters look attractive. Nobody wants to play an game if the characters looks bland and boring like Rogue Company.

[@itLoneTho]

Paragon was fun but I never wanted to try it. My friends forced me to play it, but then I really liked it. The card system was confusing and bad, and the UI was kinda confusing. I stopped playing it and always thought of it as a game I would come back and play, but I never did. Predecessor is a lot of fun and it reminds me so much of launch Paragon, without the bad card system and a lot less confusing. Still kind of confusing for new players, they end up in the wrong lanes or with the wrong crest or whatever. But the game is damn good and it shows that the community is behind it. Predecessor is the heart of Paragon for me.

[@ClaudioGallardoX]

I agree in almost everything except that I liked the initial card system and lootboxes without the pay to win/fast part. I also liked the 2 vs 1 meta sometimes.

[@unofficialhotel]

I never played paragon, I can’t believe how similar predecessor is to it. They had such a winning game I’m so mad they ruined it with lootboxes and p2w decisions

[@BestWhenDrunk]

Get video. Never knew anything about paragon an epic till now. Coming from smite I'm loving predecessor."! Feels just like home. I hope it succeeds.

[@BorrisBackyardigan]

Hey mane why you tryna scare the devs from okaying more hot ladies

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Don't get me wrong, I love me some hot ladies. But some more variety would have been nice xD

[@kngcrmsn505]

There are two games that I despise and refuse to play because they took away from and shut down two of my favorite games. The first is fornite because they put so much into that game instead of Paragon the only MOBA I put so much time and faith into I was there from the beginning and all the way to the end. The second is apex because they also did the same to Titanfall. This is also why I have a dislike for battle royales, such a waste SMDH.

[@TheUltimateRey]

Same bro same

[@GreenFalcon18]

Can you do a video on why fault failed? I called it week 1.

[@ItsTommyGunz]

That's a good idea! I might try to do that down the line! Focusing on a lot of Predecessor videos right now, but keep an eye out ;-)

[@GreenFalcon18]

@@ItsTommyGunz nooice can't wait for more content

[@Denji23]

i miss legacy it was so good

[@justxander1656]

Used to play this aton as a kid my ps4 ended up breaking was left without one for years ended up getting a pc and wanted to play paragon again but i remember very little about the game and the games name in general it took me years to find out the game died and it made me super sad especially since the other game i used to play with paragon paladins is essential a dead game losing all the charm that made me love it

[@DeadHatzGuy]

RIP Paragon but damn Predecessor is fun af

[@kiideva]

I played the game so damn much and had basically every card so I didn't see it as a problem. But I can see why new players didn't wanna play it if cards had a terrible system on how to get them. Damn I miss Crunch/Grux/Wukong/Iggy and Scorch. 😭😭😭

[@ericwilliams6515]

Lol the hot lady part for the releases had me laughing so hard

[@aleousmajor6825]

I’d love to play Predecessor but I’m not willing to pay. So I guess it’s just Overprime for me and my group.

[@FluffyPota2]

this was my favorite Epic Game game at the time but Fortnite killed it because they wanted to focus on Fortnite's development at the time and never came back to it until 4 years later

[@uknowme9651]

They need to add one more tower in overprime 😊

[@chrisspangler7984]

I had failed when they went to the new map and went away from the legacy map That's just my opinion though I used to play it everyday I loved it

[@mistasleek225]

You forgot thick hot lady, the last hero in the game

[@deathloop935]

I remember I saw paragon the first time in the ps4 store but it was closed beta like that so months later I join the game „card system era“ I was pretty bad and have no idea which card or which lane so they destroy me. I watch some KZbin videos how to play moba and which hero and which card would be great so I join the game with new knowledge and boom I was addicted af. I meet many funny nerds i got Great conversations, the fights are unforgettable and the music damn...the teamwork was amazing and if you got mates they help and protect you it was idk just like a group of random unknown people all over the world they connected together. I miss this game really much and I swear I never ever buy a game by epic games again. They make so much money with Fortnite it’s just crazy and still the killed paragon. I want to say thank you to everyone they play with me this game and big thanks to Dekker and countess your 🍑 is still in my mind LOL

[@brianhildebran4351]

Over Prime is headed down the death ball track. The laning phase is rather short and devolves into brawling and whoever has the most players in their death ball wins. It's rather boring and frustrating.

[@ItsTommyGunz]

Yeah I've noticed that. OP is fun with friends but truth be told I despise playing it solo for that exact reason

[@c.a.g.e.]

Great video and closing notes, I was 16 when paragon came out too funny we have very similar views on the game and the direction its successors should go while being the same age

[@Peter-zg3em]

they made the game worse. people left and new people never showed up. it's really that simple. v 42 ruined the game. i never played a game on my main account after that item rework. legacy had flaws [too big, needed travel mode, map was a little broken if you could jump over walls,] but was ultimately a better experience. monolith was terrific for a time but it was a means to an end and something that was done out of need rather than intended design. tencent took a big piece of epic and they ddin't want to bring in a competitor to league of legends. the game got worse. it is what it is. if it was hellishly popular they never would have sunk it, so there is that. it was never a true world beater. i do belive it had the potential to be the next generation of moba. aimed basics, body blocking, 3d maps and terrain, all of these things will be in the next gen of moba. hopefully pred takes off. it's been a lot of fun so far but it needs items and about 35 heroes.

[@uknowme9651]

Lol I heard a lot of good stuff here but the overprime map isn’t small you just run fast af

[@bassikilla]

Bro. 1000% accurate! Except I did like the card system! 😆 🤣

[@laius6047]

It's good paragon failed. I liked the card system, but it's because I'm casual ps4 player. If it wouldn't have failed then it would be very poorly monetized game. Instead they created Fortnite where all the hyper autistic zoners went. And another company that's not monetizing the game in that toxic way is making it - predecessor. Predecessors is early access yet but the community in European servers are chill as fuck. No feeding, no afk, no flaming. So relaxed.

[@alphaargo1946]

Pred

[@noctrenn5636]

While I agree 100% that the way Epic went about match lenght was absolutely not the best, I do believe that it is something the dev should keep in mind for the longevity of the games. Yeah having 45min to 1h matches is not a problem for hardcore, pro players and streamers but for casual players it is important. Imagine you only have a couple hours to play each day (and that's being generous, a lot of people don't even have that) and you only get to play maybe one or two match and that match your team gets steamrolled... what incensitive do you have to log back in the next day and do another match? All this to say, I think that the current 30min average match from Pred is the sweet spot. If the match doesnt go well, you at least know that in the next few minutes you'll be able to hop on another match. I believe it would be a mistake to only cater to hardcore players, a game need casual players to survive. Also, a big part of why I feel Paragon failed and it was not mention in the video is expectation. Epic Game is a huge company and they expect big profit from their projects so the moment Paragon didnt meet those big expectation I beleive the higher ups probably abandonned the project pretty quickly. Omeda being a smaller and new company, I think the expectation will be more realistic so I have hope that the game will be online for a long time even if it's not the number 1 moba arround.

[@elgenericoTV]

No love for Iggy & Scorched?

[@addhado.o8450]

Rip overprine

[@GBaumann95]

Game was perfect😢

[@vaaiven9361]

still the old paragon looks way better then both

[@DjSuperK]

Paragon is back! It’s called predecessor on steam. It came out on the 1st of December. And on the 8th paragon the over prime comes out. 😊😊😊😊

[@maga1475]

Original card system was genius. I loved it much more than this crap with items. Upgraded one was biggest shit I ever saw. I left Paragon long before it collapsed because of upgraded card system.

[@myster4731]

this game is gonna die due to the fact that the small community interested are split between two versions

[@rocanrul5752]

I really liked the card and deck system, it was deep enough to make interesting builds and at the same time easy to understand for someone inexperienced in mobas, I remember I spent many hours perfecting my deck or maybe doing crazy experiments playing against the AI. as for the pay to win I had no complaints, as it was really easy to get all the cards. And I don't agree with you that the solo/duo lane was boring, it required more patience and strategy but it was very satisfying. I don't know why most of the criticisms of paragon are that it's not like LoL, in that case just play LoL.

[@joshwilliams4874]

As an ex paragon player, pretty sure the card levels only worked and made a difference in pve against bots. Everyone was on the same level and playing field in pvp. I spent 0 dollars in paragon(monolith and newdawn) and dont know what the complaint about loot boxes is. League has it in hexchest form........ loot boxes also don't affect any in game stuff(how does a free game make money?). Also disagree with the "take too long to fix things" as well, Deathcrawler grux was removed and changed within like 2 weeks,Wukong was removed from the game one December (dont remember how long), Rev was nerfed as well in reasonable time. And what time frame and measurement are you looking for to consider long times to nerf? League has been broken with problems and I mean literally broken with problems for years and I mean yeaaaaarrrsssss, and probably will never get fixed. Will agree with the random reworks though, they destroyed my boy feng mao and gave wukong and crunch a stun for some reason. You also mentioned that they didn't follow traditional moba when going to monolith from legacy ????? Do you know what dota is? they literally were the first to have this concept of solo vs duo.

[@dznuts2114]

Had nothing to do with loot boxes or card system it was not pay to win I’m a founder for paragon and fortnight before it became a battle royal they abandoned paragon due to Fortnite’s success so they can hold a fortnight World Cup

[@Lorenzo_631]

Fortnite BR was release and epic games found their cash cow and dropped development on it.

[@genericwatcher2439]

It failed because they changed the map, the card system sucked and when it started to decline, instead of fixing these 2 issues, since Fortnite was going amazing, they just couldn't do both so chose Fortnite, can't say I blame them...

[@kryptoknife5909]

the reason paragon was doomed it was Fortnite enough said .

[@catalyst4448]

So I loved parts of the card system but, only parts. I love being able to customize your play style it give safety to hyper aggressive dives! I liked the gems and my friends and I would mull over ideas for builds as we generally ran a five stack. However it’s was beyond broken ! I could 1v5 and a behind equal or ahead Murdock under enemy inhib and walk away alive. Just to prove how it was dumb I would narbash jungle and his Carries and mid laners like a brick with my thunk. I hope aspects of it come back I love the idea of playing characters different ways for example LoLs Rune pages are a good idea in my Opinion.

[@TheVini873]

Fortnite was a success so most of the team went for it also V42 finished killing the game wtf was that update

[@MrSeanc006]

I think Netmarble and Souleve are doing an amazing job listening to their players and Fan base and changing things for the better and what the community wants. I've been playing Pred allot since its launch and to be honest I'm disappointed, I'll always continue to play both and support both.... Fingers crossed they both succeed as they are both completely different from one another.

[@middiff349]

My two cents what ever they may be worth - Pred gameplay is amazing and when put side by side with Overprime just feels right (pretty, smooth, strategy). Outside of the gameplay It just feels really incomplete in comparison to Overprime. UI/menus, load screens, champion select, number of champions, OVERPRIME has ranked for crying out loud with leader boards with enough champions to implement free rotations. I played 2 games of over prime because I wanted to chip a way at unlocking ranked. I then got to watch a midlaner jungle and see the call of duty death ball begin. I immediately put on predecessor and felt WOW, then I get to suffer through wishing the game had more of my favorite champions, wishing the game had a ranked mode to unlock. Then you run into champions missing indicators/ability to normal castbthere abilities (howitzer) There’s so much that is amazing about predecessor but there so much that’s just unfinished that one has to worry about Overprime because the game feels more complete and the gameplay although vastly diffrent , not prefered but has potential.

[@uknowme9651]

Fortnite was a money grab they just wanted the money .

[@casualgamerfiend4728]

Failed? The team that was working on paragon went off to focus on Fortnite and they were open about it that was literally it. Since then epic games has given free games weekly so they are good in my book.

[@Denji23]

You didnt mention fortnite, it was the biggest killing factor for paragon because both games are by epic and they just abandoned paragon for fortnite since it had its big boom back then and they focused all their recources into that game.

[@spiritualsoul2711]

Pt 1/2. Why do Predecessor fans try to *Romanticize paragon like it was a Masterpiece? The flaws it had were immeasurable which also to add the Monolith map being one of those flaws it's a trash map. Legacy you can tip your hat but They romanticize Monolith like it was Soo great when objectively and historically it never was. Legacy map was a big map that really punished you for constant rotations.. Monolith was a Puny Map that never punished rotations at all. Legacy map will always be Peak Paragon....it's an objective fact which also has Travel mode.... Something that Paragon the Overprime also happens to have . I say all this because there's paragon players who joined during the monolith switch and loved paragon when the downfall really began tremendously. If you didn't play Legacy you don't have the right to give an opinion on what was like OG Paragon . Even if you liked the game at the time of monolith you can tell by the systems in place it was a MESS.

[@spiritualsoul2711]

Pt 2/2 WHAT I MEAN BY THE LAST PART*** As an exe....If you Play Paladins in 2021,2022 that's the equivalent of what playing during monolith era was. Paladins is In the final stage of its life cycle despite being popular on console. Peak paladins was like pre OB 64*** 2016,2017 almost 2 full years. Ob 64 was bad but once that was fixed in 2 months...2018 was good but it started to lose steam. When the eSports for paladins died in 2020 HiRez basically turned the "casual" meter up to 100. 2020 it really started going downhill.😌 Like I know a new player I talk to and he's been telling me in 2020 "this game has potential" 2021-22 same exact thing and he really likes the game. He hasn't come to the realization tho that the game is finished.😌 The fact he keeps telling me that when the game has been in a constant deterioration...he's not someone to take seriously. Hopefully I explained it but idk why it feels hard to explain.😭

[@spiritualsoul2711]

It's funny when PRED fans who romanticize Monolith which was death balling and tdm brawler. Try to now bash Paragon the Overprime for that......which it's not. There was a ranked match with good players where it was 7-4 at 20 minute mark recently..it debunks that notion...the entire game was strictly objectives. Which PRED fans say "it's tdm you don't have to play objectives" just not true. Even the tourneys for OP debunked it as well especially the NA finals . The game is played differently at a higher level compared to low ELO ...all I'm saying! I will say I'd like to hear your opinion but I feel like the towers are paper in Paragon the Overprime.....compared to last test they definitely weakened em. Do you think short matches are good? Because in the tourneys matches already ended in 14 minutes due to skill gap. The next tourney I bet matches will last even shorter....due to this paper towers. Imo....I think the towers should scale as the match goes on . Like for Leauge of legends you know the "Tower plates"? If you don't look up this Article it's from a Grandmaster leauge player since season 1*. "Leauge of legends turret plating guide" Since Overprime has only 2 towers it would make sense. Obviously it's not going to be the same but they tweak it so they can find the Sweet spot for this game. What do you think?

[@spiritualsoul2711]

Again the numbers don't matter in article ...they tweak it....and make it mesh together with the game design of Paragon the op. It's mostly to make towers stronger in this game and then gaining gold aspect. It's like something you'd need to experiment on. The idea was from this streamer called "ElLeon" last test he said he was thinking about going competitive eSports in Paragon t Overprime or Dota. He's a top dota and Leauge player....he's interesting! If you hop into a stream of his and are curious just ask him about the towers in PTOP....Also ask him about "Zena* compared to the other Paragon characters. It's super intriguing because here you say the champion quality went down in monolith.... but it's not even about the designs but the KITS Themselves. So are those champions you listed are the kits trash? For phase we can definitely say that I guess!

[@Tjup]

Paragon is lame rigged

[@uknowme9651]

Mostly failed because fortnite . Mostly not a design aspect.

[@gamekingstudios]

Fortnite. End of video lol

[@kainoctis7724]

Q. Why Did Paragon (2016) Fail? A. Steve Superville

[@leroyalty1]

Because Fortnite did too good

[@Noname-sz5ui]

Too bad pred is going p2w with selling heroes

[@imDannyGaming]

Fortnite happened and brought in so much more money, so unfortunately it didn't make sense for them to continue devlopment on Paragon over Fortnite. Which in hindsight was the right call for them as a business

[@DjSuperK]

The cars system was amazing.

[@HarbingerOfTruth1]

The vast majority of mmorpgs and mobas will fail due to in large part people with sunk cost fallacy in the large established games that will not try a new game. The playerbases for dota2 and lol are massive, but how many of those players will actually find new mobas to play? New moba players will get lured into the biggest ones and that's that, game over.

[@funnykid101010]

Mainly because the devs were bad at balancing the game, and also fort night

[@Plem_xo]

They literally just wanted more manpower for fortnite. There is no other reason. They said this in the official statement.

[@mjwittheflu7875]

Because Fortnite made 2 billion dollars