Why did Plato Wish to Exile Writers, Painters and Sculptors? | Einar Bøhn, Nerdrum & Tuv

We dive into Plato's dialogues, such as Ion and The Republic to better understand the Greek philosopher's concept of the ideal forms and why he declaimed that painters, sculptors, and writers were to be banned from his ideal state.
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Chapter markers:
00:00 Is life on earth inferior?
03:11 Plato's "forms", censorship and the afterlife
08:46 Imitation as morally problematic
12:35 Good painters imitate Platonic forms?
16:58 Serving the state vs "please and instruct"
20:43 Plato's philosophy - a preparation for death
23:43 Socratic irony as manipulation
26:25 Ion: do not overestimate how much you know
29:27 Ion: empathy made suspicious
33:32 Plato understood literally - and later interpretations
38:45 Plato vs Aristotle on the poet
41:55 Preparation for death
45:01 Capturing the forms or the universal?
52:34 Number of "forms" & steel manning Plato
54:53 "Find God in everything" and near death experiences
56:24 Heraclitus vs Plato
58:39 Great poets make things last
This episode featured Einar Duenger Bøhn, Bork Nerdrum & Jan-Ove Tuv.
Filmed by Öde Nerdrum and Carl August Benneche Klevjer.
Edited by Bork Nerdrum.
The centerpiece was a 19th century reproduction of G. F. Watts' Hope.
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[@ravenkeefer3143]

I speak to the "ability to learn vicariously". Through music, writing, and even paintings. Emotions, experiences, life lessons, and morality are conveyed to the individuals experiencing the presentations. In recent decades, there's been an attack on classic, perhaps historical references, writings, music, and paintings and replacement with meaningless praddle and garbage in arts both music and canvas. Social manipulation and destruction or morals and life experiences through vicarious experiences. Both were spoken of in Plato's perspective. However, Plato is who I call the earliest Antihumanist, and source of much of the Nihilist basis. Mahe Ohna ✌️ Favour All

[@julianjohannessen5069]

Wow omg Talking about ending on a high note!

[@andrecruz9188]

Isn't life a preparation for death it self? It comes for everyone, it waits everyone. we all waiting for it. it must be the most important event of our lifes, together with birth. Are we really aware that we are going to die? life is so beautiful yet so painful at the same time.. no one wants to die, we all sure about it; but at the same time we all want it, life exhaust us at certain moments.. when the time comes we must be ready. like any other event, if we not ready we not going to take the right approach; we get freezed sometimes and dont know what to do because of our expectations; Religion, the true religion, not the institutional ones; the true religion man is possible. Jesus was not a christian, Siddhartha was not a buddhist, Mansur was not a Muslim.. We should never, absolutely never forget that.. All religions were possible because of death and birth; we humans are inside these two happenings. And both are completly out of our reach of understanding. Plato misses the point when he says philosophy was a preparation for death; i read much Plato; and i know by my own study that Plato and greek philosophy at that time was getting winds from oriental philosophies, but oriental philosophy was grounded on true religion. the sanscrit word for philosophy is much more poetic and has a much more wide range. Plato was too much rational to get it. West philosophy in a way is a useless passion, because the "western" philosopher thinks and rationalizes life; and life is to be experienced and lived. Philosophy can never be a preparation for death, thats what the instituional religious have been selling since ever. Philosophies. True creators are much more connected to the real religion then to philosophy, althought the line is so subtle that most people dont see it. Look at Dostoievski, Rembrandt, parables of christ, my god, look at Odd Nerdrum. There transmission of the idea, of the mistery of life, of our human connection to the eternerty is so poetic, so true, that the feeling they create in people can never be put into words. And philosophy is words and words; very beautiful in a way, but nothing but words.

[@sooryadhyan5660]

Another perspective on the myth of the cave kzbin.info/www/bejne/pny8poKsp7d2nJY

[@karlfroman]

Hahaha good job guys, the less you know. Anyway well done interesting.

[@nledaig]

Plato couldn't sing

[@burntt999]

I can’t dance. Only thing about me is the way I that I walk.

[@nledaig]

@@burntt999 A man who makes a joke like that can't be very angry

[@zein9227]

This is not true. According to the biography of Diogenes, Plato had a beautiful singing voice and played the lyre very well. He was also a very good wrestler who participated in the Isthmian Games. The legend is that he was called Plato ("broad") because of his athleticism. Plato was also a very gifted playwright - which is evident in his supremely crafted dialogues - and wanted to enter the Dionysia but was rejected. This whole interview is such a cliché ridden discussion of Plato. Plato's works have suffered tremendously under the neoplatonic interpretation of the Church fathers and Thomas Aquinas as well as the bad histories of philosophy that the 19th century produced. Plato is a very complex, multilayered and ambiguous writer whose works are menat to be challenging the reader or listener to think. We also have only his writings that were published. We lost all of his so-called "esoteric" writings, that is, all his academic and philosophical writings that he produced to teach his own students.