Why did the suppressed Thompson lose out to the Sten? With firearm & weapon expert Jonathan Ferguson

[@redjoshman]

As an FYI, there is an intergrelly surpressed M1/M1A1 Thompson Submachine Gun located in the West Point Museum Collection. Its suppressor starts much closer to the receiver and is a shorter overall package than the one presented here. They seem to routinely fire it, as it routinely pops-up in the Cadet's annual historic weapon shoot.

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

They could have bull pupped it as well, But then that magazine is the grip, like a pistol.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@universe8607]

is there a video review of this version of suppressed tommy?

[@Bigcat726]

This is the first time I’ve seen a Thomson suppressed looks very cool, but yeah a suppressed Thomson is very expensive compared to a suppressed Sten

[@brokeandtired]

Also the sten could break down to slimmer package. In most roles where a silenced weapon were often used in, it often risked being dumped after a Partisan ambush in Europe.

[@johnsmith-jq1uc]

can i supress my mp40, i think i can but i'm not sure.

[@jonathanbohm6489]

Considering it’s 45 and weighs a ton you’d probably have no recoil whatsoever

[@ridhosamudro2199]

​@@jonathanbohm6489my guy, it's a simple blowback gun. Where'd you think the weight comes from?

[@aaronleverton4221]

It is also very long compared to a suppressed Sten. Might as well suppress an M1 Carbine for those ergonomics.

[@adamsmith6995]

That view down the silencer and barrel was great. Well done!

[@leeburks4540]

Too soon after yesterday's colonoscopy!

[@trapmouth]

@@leeburks4540 art imitating life…

[@adamsmith6995]

@@leeburks4540 Sorry. Didn't mean to drudge up such bad memories.

[@Techpriest1010]

Was expecting 007 at the end

[@pnutz_2]

I was waiting for the bond music to kick in and then the outro happened

[@Getpojke]

I know as you can't get the suppressor off that it's hard to clean the bore of that Thompson. But looking at the fluff & detritus in there I couldn't help but hear Michael Caine as Harry Brown saying "You Failed to Maintain Your Weapon Son!" Very cool video, thanks for showing it to us.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Yes, sadly there's a lot of old corrosion from having been put away without stripping and cleaning the suppressor. The fluff I'm less sure about. Maybe someone tried to clean it.

[@Getpojke]

@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries Fluff gets everywhere! Could be interesting having a conservator on with you discussing what cleaning you do & preventative maintenance is considered safe & acceptable. You've touched on it in the past, but I'm sure there's some horror stories of what's been done in the past. Years back I rigged up a low wattage incandescent light bulb in my gun safe that stayed on all the time. Kept the interior warm & dry enough to help prevent any moisture that could remain hidden away on my work guns, even though they were cleaned daily. (Bad British weather)

[@Mizzle420420]

​@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouriesill clean it for free.. It would get a lot of lube

[@Hairyegg]

My neighbour was an engineer in ww2 at Brockhurst engineering in Chester England, he said we got the Thomson’s through the lend lease and the rifling was awful on the first batches he said we worked on them as well as engines for rolls Royce, an amazing life he had

[@ExpatriotSilencers]

I have sound metered both a modern Sten MK2S as well as a partially modern M3 Grease Gun. The noise pitch of the 45 is considerably lower, which makes it sound quieter to the ear than the 9mm Sten. However the sound meter shows that the Sten is actually a full 10 dB quieter. While the 45 is inherently subsonic, the large bore and low pressure round make it extremely difficult to suppress. The smaller, but higher pressure, 9mm is way easier to suppress.

[@Chasmodius]

2:33 That wipe! I see what you did there...

[@Getpojke]

@Jonathan/@Royal Armouries. Would you ever consider doing a "Walking the Racks" series on the channel. Ian McCollum used to occasionally do it at some of the large auctions & it was great walking along, picking out interesting firearms for snippets of info, that could be expanded upon at a later date. I always salivate at the ones behind you in the vids, so an expanded tour would be excellent.

[@SnoopReddogg]

That vid would be an 8 hour KZbin extravaganza!!!!

[@Padgriffin]

That would be cool but I feel like poor Johnathan would need a holiday after that

[@tankmorebed3331]

That barrel cam was gorgeous, good choice on the lighting. Had to laugh at the final animation 😂 classic. Great job guys and thank you.

[@bigmal1690]

I think the silenced grease gun in .45 was cool as hell, but seeing the silence sten in that new Guy Richie war movie looked very cool too.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Those worked, but you had to be very cautious with full auto fire because the wire mesh baffling overheated quite easily.

[@ExpatriotSilencers]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine An original M3 Grease Gun silencer would not have been all that quiet compared to the Sten.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@ExpatriotSilencers I can imagine that to be the case given the primitive baffling it uses, but given the subsonic cartridge and how the barrel was perforated like crazy to dampen blast, it can't have been a substantial difference between them.

[@ExpatriotSilencers]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine The M3 I tested has a ported barrel that is wrapped in aluminum screen. The difference is in the front, where the modern one has baffles rather than more screen. The screen only acts as a big heat sink, which is really inefficient because it depends on gas wandering away from the bore, which it doesn't do well due to the large bore and low pressure. 45 ACP is actually a total bastard to suppress.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@ExpatriotSilencers Oh, so the big roll of wire mesh does basically nothing as baffling? Even when clean?

[@alanjackson1015]

So cool to be handling one of only two known examples of a firearm. I am envious of what Jonathan has access to in those vaults!

[@samuelgarrod8327]

But they aren't there to play with and they are very rarely ever, if at all, fired.

[@0ate5y]

​@@samuelgarrod8327 Reference pieces and a few special examples.

[@bloodharrier3333]

I can see where this configuration would not be practical in the field, but oh boy, it does look very cool. Thank you for sharing.

[@Brighton24601]

Gotta say, the visual framing of this video is really eye catching. I might be biased because I just think rolling shelves are super cool, but having Jonathan eighth between the two, and a long open area behind him, at rowing as it goes. Something about it is just really cool. Kudos to whomever framed the shot!

[@elitearbor]

The S in Mk2S stood for "special" not "silenced"? What an intriguing tidbit, I'd never heard that.

[@aaronleverton4221]

Ugh, someone else who needs to repeat what we all heard said in the video. Oh, wait, you know, now that I think of it, I've never heard that before either. It's kind of amazing (and also utterly mundanely explicable) that the entire world just all came to the same incorrect assumption.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Sounds like a bit of mythbusting, similar to the myth that the wingspan of the RAF's 4-engined bombers was limited to 100ft due to the hangars doors (it wasn't).

[@Tonks143]

@@aaronleverton4221 Who did this to you? What made you so angry?

[@aaronleverton4221]

@@Tonks143 Who failed to teach you reading comprehension?

[@calebfoster4855]

​@@aaronleverton4221aww we have an insecure man child that has to project his insecurities all over the internet because hes basement bound and socially crippled

[@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation]

This is unfathomably dope

[@andybelcher1767]

Interesting presentation of a very rare gun...and a nod to Othais and May with the Tshirt 😁

[@jjjdynamo4362]

Always enjoy the content on this channel

[@TheProvokedPrawn]

That outro was amazing 😂

[@Jknight416]

First time I ever saw that suppressor on that Thompson was back when I played Sniper Elite 5

[@Cats-TM]

Fun fact, if you did not know it already: Jonathan Ferguson KoFaAatRAMitUKWHaCoToIWTH was an advisor for, I think, Sniper Elite 4.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

@@Cats-TM 4 & 5, yes. From memory though the suppressor on a TSMG in that game (5) was just an optional modification you could fit to anything, not based on this integrated design.

[@knokd_]

Cod waw

[@MrOtistetrax]

“Hey guys, we’re going to add the Thompson to inventory for the Army. What designation shall we give it?” “Whatever will cause the least confusion, ideally.” “M1 it is, then.”

[@TheCatBilbo]

I came here expecting a motorway, to boot!

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

@@TheCatBilbo Americans : "Wait . . . I think I have seen that name used on Midsomer Mysteries, a motorway is like a small, badly designed highway, right, and always clogged with traffic jams ?."

[@Ghelasin]

When they switched to the new naming system the first of literally every kind of item they had was named the M1, first knife introduced under the new system? M1, first pistol? M1, first submachine gun? M1, first carbine? M1, first underpants? I have no idea about that one actually, but I'm assuming they were the M1 underpants. 😂 It's the most confusing naming scheme of any military on the planet tbh.

[@moosemaimer]

@@Ghelasin no, you just look in the file under GUN comma ARMY comma SPECIAL PURPOSE comma SUPPRESSED comma MACHINE comma PISTOL CALIBER comma .45 comma M1, it's perfectly simple.

[@antonioadinolfi4052]

On this topic why was the Beretta pistol designated M4 and the SIG, adopted next designated M17?

[@Tallus_ap_Mordren]

Considering that a 9mm conversion kit was a standardized piece of gear for the Grease Gun, it seems like a fully suppressed M3 barrel replacement kit would be a no-brainer.

[@jameskelly7782]

always astounding presentations from the reference collection.

[@reubenleal7098]

Never seen a thompson get a colonoscopy before

[@jensonkiin3678]

Love the new outro...

[@SlimRhyno]

Howdy from Kansas City. I just wanted to say thank you all for sharing your knowledge and joy with all of us. Anywho, take care, and I'm off to look after the horses. 🤠

[@dominic6634]

you not a Sackett are you?

[@SlimRhyno]

@@dominic6634 I honestly don't know what that means.

[@Goc4ever]

Well done Jonathan, well done. Once again your knowledge of firearms proved to be engaging as always. Even though it was never used for rather obvious reasons the silenced M1 Thompson is a pretty neat gun to look at.

[@Max_Flashheart]

Congrats on the 300K Subscribers

[@RickyRavioli69]

The very end made me LOL. Props to whoever made that!

[@RNemy509]

I bet the boys woulda been happy with either when needing a supressed sub gun. Both are excellent examples of craftsmanship and engineering. Love the silenced Tommy tho! Excellent video gents

[@1982rrose]

A video of Johnathan & Ian coming up with alternate designs to achieve some of these ideas could be entertaining.

[@williestyle35]

That end animation with Jonathan Ferguson was fantastic! Wonder how many caught the Bond reference? Thank you Royal Armouries !

[@Whizzouk]

The James Bond outro was a rather unexpected gift to those who stayed to the end.

[@MrRnipperBrockleBroadcasting]

Nice graphic and time stamp reference at the end! (I’d thought exactly the same when the down the barrel footage was first shown!)

[@inthefade]

I just made a similar comment but hadn't made it to the end yet!

[@zoiders]

1" 1/2 diameter tube is the same size as steel plumbing waste pipe of the era. This may not be a coincidence as it lets you use off the shelf BSP bushes. I am completely stumped as to why they didnt ditch the hand guard and just lathe the barrel down and directly thread the supressor over it. You dont need a lot of barrel with .45 ACP ball to get minute of man accuracy out to 100. The DeLisle carbine showed this.

[@HEKVT]

I saw a Thompson yesterday when I went to the museum, sadly I didn't see Jonathan.

[@robertspence831]

You learn something new every day.....

[@inthefade]

The camera shot going down the rifling definitely got me humming the 007 theme song

[@williamboggs1682]

Really would love to see some more silencer content thank you

[@christophersine84]

That suppressor is cool, but it also makes me appreciative of how far we've come in suppressor technology

[@TacticalFemboy19]

I'm here for Jonathan ❤️

[@Cats-TM]

Ooh! I remember you referencing this in (one of?) the Sniper Elite video(s?) on the Gamespot channel.

[@Swisba]

Thanks for the vid! Love learning about a new gun I didn’t know existed!

[@trapmouth]

I can relate to that suppressor, my mom calls me special as well.

[@CodyGlover-fq6jz]

more museums need to do this, we get a great look at stuff we wouldnt know existed

[@f15htast1c]

When I clicked on this video, I was not ready for a Thompson colonoscopy.

[@donjones4719]

Off subject a bit, but it concerns the M3 in special operations. I read recently that Delta Force (in real life, not a game) had a special model M3 that had a *thumb safety.* Sounds like this would make it possible to carry the gun cocked but on safe *with the dust cover closed.* The one thing I never liked about the M3 is taking it off safe takes too much hands and gun movement to open the dust cover. The alternative is to have the dust cover open but off safe. An open dust cover obviously negates the function of a dust cover, especially on a rainy day. A thumb safety lets you keep the cover closed and it can be taken off safe as quickly as any other gun with a thumb safety. (I'm sure a way could be found for the bolt to kick open the dust cover as it moved forward to fire the first round.)

[@PsychoDad89]

Something I never knew I needed

[@pho3nix-]

Looks pretty awesome

[@garrettneary3755]

Johnathan is wrong. Words cannot fully express how badly I want a suppressed Tommy Gun.

[@mannycuellar7426]

👏😎👍 great video

[@brickct123]

Have you guys looked into getting an industrial CT scanner?

[@brianford8493]

Gotta love the Royal A ✌️

[@ALLNevada]

It would be cool to see some range footage with these

[@kiwisteve6598]

A great presentation thanks. One question I’ve asked myself is why the Brits went to all the effort to develop the De Lisle suppressed carbine (by fitting and suppressing a barrel off a Thompson sub machine gun to a .303 Lee Enfield rifle) when it would have been much more straight forward to simply suppress the Thompson. This might be more a question for a De Lisle video than this one, but any informed answers are welcome.

[@1boortzfan]

I've seen a few M3 Grease Guns that had a suppressor on it but never a Thompson. That is quite special.

[@ferdinand12390]

when i was a kid, i thought the James Bond intro was the shutter of a camera aiming at him, not that it was a gun, didn't knew about rifling back then

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

I will let you into a secret - I thought the same until my teens!

[@Cluster-orchestrator]

Cool Thompson. Strange they didn't even consider a front sight post.

[@bigdraco151]

tommy gun is one of my favorite guns

[@ZackRToler]

Never thought I'd see a thompson get a colonoscopy

[@Swisba]

Now THIS is a good base for a Star Wars blaster!!

[@wazwulf2698]

great work and ty

[@michaelwright2986]

At the last minute I saw the t-shirt: Martini Henry Singles Only. Bravo, Sir!

[@Mr_T_Badger]

Johnathan has an amazing t-shirt collection and I keep begging Gamespot to do an episode on them. Interesting to see Johnathan wearing one on his official job though, I thought he would be wearing something a little more formal.

[@andyf4292]

anything been done on that silent stetchkin with the captive piston in the cartridge?

[@Hervoo]

It's so... BEAUTIFUL!

[@jelhaj7769]

Extraordinary

[@jbloun911]

Making a boat anchor even heavier yikes... Love the design as a soldier I would not want to carry it

[@roverM30ds]

That is one very cool looking gun

[@philhasacamera]

Great video as always. Not sure how happy I am that you're now on tiktok. Ryan mcbeth wouldnt agree with it lol

[@TheWitchfinderGenral]

Great outro!😂

[@silverwolf-jo6lq]

That new camera down the barrel is cool

[@hololightful]

Yeah, that looks way cooler than a suppressed Sten... Also I feel like you could argue the weight as a 'feature'. Of course Ive never fired a Sten (full auto or otherwise), but the Thompson looks like it would be much more ergonomic, and the weight might make it easier to control when throwing down bursts of fire?

[@excaliburarmouries9182]

What a gorgeous set of furniture

[@daftpunk672]

This would make a great Star Wars blaster!

[@DirtyHairy1]

nice move at the end of the outro :)

[@NyanSten]

A possible reason for a detachable suppressor may be to reduce the length for transport, as a substitute for a foldable stock.

[@kuukeli]

nice video

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

Before even watching the video, I can tell you it's because the Thompson was painfully expensive and both the Brits and Americans hated paying for it.

[@LN997-i8x]

I'm sure it being nearly twice as heavy as a STEN didn't help matters.

[@alantheinquirer7658]

Looks like the kind of thing the Special Services would look at. I think the SOE would wonder why make the notoriously heavy Thompson suppressed.

[@JeffEbe-te2xs]

At the time what they had

[@Napalmnate]

That is one very cool firearm that I would never want to field in real life.

[@cognitivedisability9864]

Damn that's sick

[@TheHawkwindman]

like the Bond ref at the end

[@jonno209]

@Jonathan - brilliant as usual! On a slightly different note, COD MW3 has just put an STG-44 into the game, and I would love to see your thoughts... #cursed

[@OleScratch1]

yes, please.

[@irtnyc]

Hows the decibels compare to the De Lisle?

[@DS-gt1ft]

Why did it lose out? IDK, a 12 lb SMG that was already far too heavy made heavier and longer by adding a suppressor? What's not to (dis)like?

[@ExpatriotSilencers]

The Sten MK2S is pretty long but it is lightweight and svelte compared to the Thompson.

[@donjones4719]

The only reason I can see for trying this is that the Thompson is very robust while the M3 can be damaged if it bashes against a rock, etc. A problem for someone who parachuted behind enemy lines. Idk how well the Sten would hold up vs the M3 if bashed the same. Anyway, even if true the tradeoff on weight and length wouldn't be worth it.

[@TheArmourersBench]

I do like an interesting tube.

[@F1ghteR41]

I see the theme of suppressed arms continues! 2:13 Good to see this footage incorporated. 5:58 Hot gases coming out of this one would really ruin the forestock.

[@rashkavar]

Those gas relief holes would get me really worried the first time I was doing a full cleaning of my gun, if I'd been issued one of those! I'd probably think they were the other mounting screwholes and I'd lost 2 screws!

[@luiscarvalho7899]

2:31 wheres the tiny Bond??

[@jjforcebreaker]

Suppressed Thompson looks sweet! 2:32 oh! Such a wasted opportunity for tiny Jonathan doing the Bond move down the tube!

[@RoyalArmouriesMuseum]

Stay till the end ;)

[@patrickrose1221]

I had quite a bit of trouble getting anything like close grouping with this................. on medal of honour! 😆😅😂🤣👍

[@OkcegIsMe]

I think I got a glimpse of that martini henry shirt. I want one! Where can I get one?

[@Mr_T_Badger]

It was a C&R Arsenal kickstarter project. I’m not sure they’re still available though.

[@ripvanwinkle2002]

havent watched the vid weight and length is the answer.. edit~ i love when im right.. i mean it was obvious a gun that is 10lbs empty and the length of an m1 carbine ISNT going to end up a handy commando weapon... the only way this would be viable is if there was NO OTHER option BUT the thompson. then its a well done conversion..

[@BeamMonsterZeus]

When you break it down in terms of raw performance, this was an exorbitant expenditure on top of an already wildly expensive firearm. The extra cutaways of the handguard make this the most "tactical boomer" military firearm I've ever seen.

[@gusplaer]

Subbed.

[@arsenelupiniii8040]

Pretty long with that can! Bull pup and integral suppression FTW!.

[@Legitpenguins99]

I wonder if the balance is any better than original? The Thompson in surprisingly rear heavy

[@billrhodes1705]

Mine is very front-heavy.

[@TrygveTrohaug]

Love the watch! Is it a calculator watch?

[@GallantKnight98]

When ya need to take out the prohibition ring...but ya don wanna wake the missus.

[@david-1775]

If only Britain had something like the Royal Armouries for their naval warships.