Why Did The Valar Choose Saruman Over Gandalf? | Lord of The Rings Lore

[@socrabe]

The attitude of Saruman/Curumo towards Aiwendil/Radagast was a major redflag imo.

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

Totally agree. Saruman’s dismissive attitude toward Radagast really showed his arrogance. It should have been a clear warning of what was to come. Not the Valar's best decision...

[@mar2506]

​​@@StoriesFromTheLoreArchivesdidnt varda consider gandalf the real deal of the mission

[@mar2506]

​​​​@@StoriesFromTheLoreArchivesvalar definitely conceived the importance of mercy, humility and all. As stated, Manwe spesifically chose gandalf for those traits and probably why varda considered gandalf the first choice This is something Tolkien stated in his letters as well, that Manwe understood the importance of mercy very well when he was asked for an answer to why Manwe let melkor go free I Dont think valar trusted strength over warmth. If that had been true gandalf would never have been offered a place and even personally convinced by Manwe. It is just saruman was better fit to be a leader which was most likely true. Not sure if it means they trusted strength more than warmth.

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

Thank you so much for this detailed and thoughtful comment-I really appreciate it! You’re absolutely right that Gandalf was crucial to the mission, and his humility, mercy, and wisdom were exactly why Manwë personally urged him to take part. It’s true that both Manwë and the Valar saw his qualities as essential to the Istari’s purpose. The point about Manwë understanding the importance of mercy, as shown in his decision to release Melkor, is such a great parallel-it really highlights the values of the Valar. You also make an excellent point that the Valar didn’t necessarily trust strength over warmth for this mission. It is more about Saruman being seen as the better fit for the leadership role at the time. I can see how I might have oversimplified or miscommunicated this in the video. The lore is incredibly nuanced, and it’s always a challenge to balance depth with brevity, especially when trying to keep the video focused on its main theme and not make it too long. Tolkien’s world is so vast that even with years of reading and research, it’s easy to miss or interpret details differently. Comments like yours help deepen the conversation and add so much value. I really love reading these comments and seeing them turn into discussions! I really like the parallel between Melkor and Manwë’s mercy, and it’s definitely something I should add to my list of lore topics to cover in a future video. If there are other topics you’d like me to explore, feel free to share them, and thanks again for your insight 😊

[@Azulakayes]

Your video is incorrect. Out of the fear of Sauron rising, a council of the Ainur was called by Manwë to send aid to the children of Illuvatar. During the discussions, they agreed to send 3 volunteers of which Curumo and Alatar stepped up to go. Manwë asked Olorin to go too as the third and last but he declined out of the fear of Sauron. Manwë and Varda convinced him to go and Varda insisted that he would be the second. Then Yavanna because of being the Vala of 'animals and growing things' sent Aiwendil on their behalf and Alatar convinced his friend Pallando to go to. There was no selection and no leader when they left Valinor, Curumo was just the first to leave on this mission. Once they reached the shores of Middle Earthd they all met Cirdan(who secretly gave Olorin the Narya ring, the ONLY people who knew it were himself, Elrond & Galadriel), Curumo who arrived first, set out to study Sauron's strategies and was assumed to be the leader. Alatar and Pallando went to the East while Aiwendil to the forests and Olorin went to the west. Technically Curumo being the first to volunteer and being set out as the first made him leader and it wasn't as if Gandalf was overlooked. There was no selection, no concern being raised by the Valar against any candidate with the exception of Olorin being pushed to go too. In addition, they were under strict conditions not to match Sauron's power but rather to be guides to the children of Illuvatar in their resistance against Sauron so how powerful they were was not a decisive factor. Note how their firmaments were of elderly people so as not to intimidate the children, especially the 2nd borns who had not seen the true forms of most Valar and Maiar. Read The Silmarillion and the Unfinished tales for more context. The first person to refer to Curumo as the chief of the Istari was Olorin himself after they had been in Middle Earth for sometime and they had conferred the white council.

[@filipondrej804]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="220">03:40</a> Elrond look like something between Elrond and Mr. Bean

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

You’re actually spot on 😂 I'll try to not make him look like Mr. Bean next time 😅!

[@meg2844]

This video is beautiful!! I know its AI or whatever but you obviously put a lot of love into it.

[@SolDizZo]

Idk it kind of gives me a headache. Granted I'm working odd hours. I think the zoom is too fast and frequent, almost every scene.

[@blafonovision4342]

Being chosen by Manwe and Varda, he was not passed over.

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

You're absolutely right, he wasn’t really passed over for the mission, and in the video I meant to explain why he was passed over for the role of Chief of the Istari and why Saruman was chosen instead. I probably could’ve made that clearer. Thanks for pointing it out!

[@mar2506]

​@@StoriesFromTheLoreArchivesdidnt varda consider gandalf the real leader of the mission?

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

I'm not really sure about Varda's views on Gandalf as a leader 😅. I don’t remember anything in the lore specifically mentioning that, but I might need to research it further! 😅 Maybe you meant Galadriel? She wanted Gandalf to lead the White Council because she thought him wiser and more steadfast than Saruman and kind of distrusted Saruman, but Gandalf declined the position

[@Azulakayes]

Indeed, nobody passed Gandalf over. He didn't want to go to Middle Earth because he feared Sauron. He didn't want to be the chief of anything and was humble by his nature and the influence of Nienna. He however was convinced by Manwë and sent as the second by Varda. At any point if Gandalf expressed his want to be the leader, he would've been. He didn't because it was not in his nature to show his power even as a maia of Manwë and later on as the possessor of Narya.

[@jasonrosa5268]

I’m sorry, I’m ignorant! What ever happy to Tolkolas?

[@Azulakayes]

Did you mean the Vala Tulkas? Nothing happened to him. He just lives in Valinor. He is waiting for dagor dagorath to beat Morgoth up.

[@andyjarvis7791]

*choose

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

Lol thanks for pointing that out forgot to fix the title after changing it from "Why the Valar chose saruman..." to this. Appreciate it

[@andyjarvis7791]

@@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives no worries.

[@luftblitz]

are these AI generated? how do you do that?

[@korganrocks3995]

A better question is why do you do that when there are decades of good fanart to choose from?

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

Apologies for the long reply 😅, but thank you for this question. In short, yes-AI helps a lot with the images! The process can be a bit long sometimes. The visuals are the result of a mix of sketches, detailed prompts, reference pictures, and AI generation/editing. There are so many tools online that can help bring your imagination to life. It’s really nice what you can create with a little experimentation with AI. It’s actually why I turned curiosity into a hobby! While some use AI to create fast, low-quality content, I aim for high-quality visuals and videos I’d personally enjoy. It all started while rereading the Dune saga. I began using AI to create images that helped me visualize the story (though the movie did help with imagining Arrakis!). And now I’m here, sharing videos on KZbin. As for fanart, I have so much respect for fanart and the incredible work artists create, but I use AI to bring my specific vision and my imagination to life while avoiding misrepresenting or misusing any artist’s work since I'm not as good as the artists. I really hope you enjoyed the video! If you have any suggestions or ideas for topics, I’d love to hear them. Also, I’ve been thinking of sharing some of the AI-generated ‘gone wrong’ images for fun 😅. Let me know if that’s something you’d like to see!

[@annorome]

@@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives It's basically almost completely AI generated. Almost 0% self-created content. Embarassing. Even a grammar mistake in your thumbnail. Dead giveaway: Stark inconsistencies of statements here in terms of actual lore.

[@StoriesFromTheLoreArchives]

Thank you for the feedback-I truly appreciate it! AI has certainly changed how content is created, but I believe it can be a great tool when used thoughtfully (which I try my best to do 😅). Like many others, I love The Lord of the Rings lore and enjoy discussing it, hearing different perspectives, and learning new things about it that's why I look forward to hearing more from you and other viewers! The beauty of Tolkien's work is its incredible depth-you could spend a lifetime exploring it. That’s why I take my time reading, rereading, and researching the books and the lore, as well as listening to others’ views, whether it’s for KZbin or just personal fun. But hey, to err is human! 😁

[@korganrocks3995]

@ Do you have aphantasia? I'm terrible at visualising things when I read, while also being very critical of screen adaptations, so when I watch an adaptation I basically only do it for the visuals, since 90% of the time they butcher the source material or just make a crap movie/show! 😄 I'd definitely love to use AI to create visuals of things I've read, if only I had the time and money.

[@annorome]

Copy-Cat.