Why Did the Vietnam War Break Out? (4K Vietnam War Documentary)

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In 1965, US troops officially landed in Vietnam, but American involvement in the ongoing conflict between the Communist North and the Anti-Communist South had started more than a decade earlier. So, why did the US-Vietnam War break out in the first place?
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» SOURCES
Anderson, David L. The Vietnam War, (Basingstoke : Palgrave MacMillan, 2005)
Bluhm Jr. Raymond K. (ed), The Vietnam War: A Chronology of War, (New York, NY : Universe Publishing, 2010)
Gettleman, Marvin E. (ed), Vietnam: History, Documents and Opinions on a Major World Crisis, (Harmondsworth : Penguin Books Ltd, 1967)
Hayslip, Ly Le & Wurts, John, When Heaven and Earth Changed Places: A Vietnamese Woman’s Journey from War to Peace, pp. X-xiv, in Ruane, Kevin (ed.), The Vietnam Wars, (Manchester : Manchester University Press, 2000)
Kearns, Doris, “Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream pp. 251-3" in Ruane, Kevin (ed.), The Vietnam Wars, (Manchester : Manchester University Press, 2000)
Langer, Howard J. The Vietnam War: An Encyclopedia of Quotations, (Westport, CT : Greenwood Press, 2005))
Lawrence, Mark Atwood, The Vietnam War: A Concise International History, (Oxford : Oxford University Press, 2008)
Moïse, Edwin E. Tonkin Gulf and the Escalation of the Vietnam War, (Annapolis, MD : Naval Institute Press, 2019)
Prados, John, “Assessing Dien Bien Phu” in Lawrence, Mark Atwood & Logevall, Fredrik (eds.), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
Rotter, Andrew J. “Chronicle of a War Foretold: The United States and Vietnam, 1945-1954" in Lawrence, Mark Atwood & Logevall, Fredrik (eds), The First Vietnam War: Colonial Conflict and Cold War Crisis, (Cambridge, MA : Harvard University Press, 2007)
Ruane, Kevin (ed.), The Vietnam Wars, (Manchester : Manchester University Press, 2000)
Thee, Marek, “The Indochina Wars: Great Power Involvement - Escalation and Disengagement”, Journal of Peace Research, Vol. 13, No. 2 (1976)
Tovy, Tal, The Gulf of Tonkin: The United States and the Escalation in the Vietnam War, (New York, NY : Routledge, 2021)
»CREDITS
Presented by: Jesse Alexander
Written by: Mark Newton
Director: Toni Steller & Florian Wittig
Director of Photography: Toni Steller
Sound: Toni Steller
Editing: Philipp Appelt
Motion Design: Philipp Appelt
Mixing, Mastering & Sound Design: above-zero.com
Research by: Mark Newton
Fact checking: Jesse Alexander
Channel Design: Simon Buckmaster
Contains licensed material by getty images and AP
Maps: MapTiler/OpenStreetMap Contributors & GEOlayers3
Music Library: Epidemic Sound
All rights reserved - Real Time History GmbH 2023

[@realtimehistory]

Get Nebula with 40% off annual subscription with my link: go.nebula.tv/realtimehistory Watch Red Atoms on Nebula: nebula.tv/redatoms

[@aliefalyansyah5996]

Do Indonesia national revolution next please.

[@azimisyauqieabdulwahab9401]

Next video about The Tet Offensive

[@blessnorthamerica7919]

Since great documentary ! ❤ but it doesn’t explain why America scared of communism, if capitalism is that great, why America scared of something less greater and has to borrow money from communism?

[@kalileokalilei]

As a Vietnamese who was born during the war and later grew up abroad, information about this war was often one sided and there was no way to be impartial to an event that shaped so profoundly our lives, I greatly appreciate the approach in which this series has been presented. Thank you

[@jafo766]

CHARLIE DON'T $URF.....does not give up either !

[@davidmoss2576]

Why don't you go to Vietnam and learn from the source instead of relying on Western propaganda?

[@Marcfj]

I was asked by a young Vietnamese student in 1965 how I felt about my country's (USA) involvement in the Vietnam war. I told him it was none of our business and that we shouldn't be there. That was my opinion then, and it is my opinion today in 2023.

[@ElimGarakSpoonHead]

@@MarcfjOk great, everybody got that? Marc here thought it was a bad idea. Glad that’s settled. We can all relax now, because Marc’s two cents on the ‘nam are in. 🤣🤡

[@agoodchow]

@@Marcfj As of 2023, Americans still think Taiwan is NOT none of American business. USA Govt and majority of USA public still think USA must get involved in Taiwan.

[@isaresarchvarin1496]

The US forgot that once upon a time, the American colonies fought for independence against the British. The Vietnamese asked the world to recognize their independence. The Western powers not only ignored this, they allowed the French to go back to colonize Vietnam. So the Vietnamese had no choice but fight for their cause.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Exactumundo!

[@user-ge5vf5md7r]

Oh yeah!what south Vietnam and The Laotian that didn't want to be communist

[@skipmagil]

@@danielhutchinson6604 does exact world mean?

[@danielhutchinson6604]

@@skipmagil I believe the origin of the actual meaning is found in Arnold's Diner? It was commonly called Fonzie talk.....

[@lalaboards]

The founders weren’t Communists .

[@Gauntlet1212]

Things like this is why you should ALWAYS question official narratives.

[@flashwashington2735]

You say. Have you questioned in any substantive way?

[@Gauntlet1212]

@@flashwashington2735 very. Always. Thanks for asking

[@flashwashington2735]

@@Gauntlet1212 Yes!? where's the substance? Anybody can just say they have done anything. What was the question. Who did you ask. Librarians and convenience store clerks don't count.

[@arvinjay336]

​@@flashwashington2735 hey yank, ain't your government putting CIA agents in several countries? especially those in which your government is obsessed with regime change, because your declassified docs confirms it.

[@HughButler-lb6zs]

Including elections.correction, especially elections.

[@umjackd]

I don't often dive into Vietnam war history because my family was part of it. My grandfather was an ARVN soldier and later officer and my parents both grew up in it before being evacuated. It's a tough history that's usually told from American perspective, but you guys have my trust to give nuance and a variety of voices from that time.

[@realtimehistory]

we try our best to always include all voices included in a conflict.

[@toangomo]

@@realtimehistory I find that this video is much better than the previous Dien Bien Phu Video. The whole team tried to find more information from North Vietnam and go into detail about each event rather than just talking in general about what happened like other KZbin channels. Thank you for respecting history.

[@danreed7889]

My family was involved as well (on the US side), and I watch this with great interest.

[@whyjnot420]

That is essentially the same reason I first started learning about the Vietnam War when I was young. Before I had any real interest in history, I was learning about the Vietnam War in depth. Simply because my father was in the US Army and served 2 tours there. Initially I just wanted to know about what that would have been like. As I grew up I learned more and more until at some point my interest in Vietnam merged with what had become a keen interest in military history and history in general.

[@chadhines5804]

Respect

[@Kabutoes]

I appreciate the sincere effort to put a Vietnamese perspective from both sides in this. Not a lot of videos would do this and go straight into the gulf of Tonkin without explaining the precarious political situations in Vietnam. Wish there were more Vietnamese sources, but I understand how difficult it is to translate

[@neilreynolds3858]

I have a history of Vietnam written by a Vietnamese historian and published in Saigon in English during the war. There are some used books available. I heard about it from a guy who was stationed in Saigon during the war and had access to books. Where I was, there was nothing in English except comic books. There's a lot in it that I've never seen anywhere else. There's the same problem with Russian histories. About the only time they were published in English was during the days of the USSR and they are obviously biased in a certain way. We're only exposed to histories in English of any place east of Germany that are written from a Western viewpoint. That's really kind of appalling.

[@tenkloosterherman]

There is a quite detailed description of the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Google it on Wikipedia.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Thank you for going over events in such nonhyperbolic detail, no snide joke comments thrown in, etc! Your presentation is so incredibly professional. I can't tell you how valuable I find that.

[@jessealexander2695]

Thanks.

[@daltonweeks6736]

I'm happy you made this series, not many go so in depth on the region as you guys do. I really enjoy these videos so thank you!

[@valdivia1234567]

They should've heeded Gen. Ridgway's advice longterm. He was not only an amazing battlefield general, he was very savvy overall.

[@alkitzman9179]

Yes Ridgway was honest Westmoreland was a blood thirsty fool looking for his own glory

[@mike6252]

I find the french involvement in Vietnam and the United States’ early years in the region the most interesting of the conflict. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is such an important event to study to understand the philosophy of our involvement and a warning sign of how uncertain events are used as justification for use of military force. Job very well done as always 👍

[@davidmoss2576]

Nothing uncertain about it. Lies were told, blood was shed. Millions paid with their lives, while billions were made by the MIC. Its a pretty simple formula repeated over and over, I just can't believe how easily American public fall for it.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Tin Can Sailors report close approaches to North Vietnam, on a regular basis. The Maddox incident remains as dubious as most of the motivation for the conflict.

[@vekazanov]

The incident shows clearly the way politicians weave history: once a certain narrative gets written, nothing can change the official line, not even facts. And then reality is forced into submission, not the other way around. On the other hand, narratives do fall apart from time to time.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

@@vekazanov The Tin Can Sailors may not have been as numerous as the population of the "Big E" but they did relay stories of delivering raiding groups to Vietnam shores that were clearly inside the territorial waters of North Vietnam. The image of protecting the Carrier groups seems to forget the shallow draft of the Ships of the Destroyer Class? The idea of delivering troops to the Shores of Nam was a tale told by more than one Sailor.

[@josef-peterroemer5309]

Basically what the usa does with all the wars they want to start or get involved in. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.

[@randalllake2785]

I watch a lot of documentaries on Vietnam. I was thrilled with this. Extremely well researched. Just the whole thing. Hats off to all of you.

[@jessealexander2695]

Thanks!

[@ScreenHackTV]

Maybe read a book by an actual expert in Vietnamese history

[@genaro5766]

I have never heard the GULF OF TONGKIN INCIDENT , explained with such intricate details . I really appreciate the complete attention to the facts on this and all your videos . Thank you for your hard work and honest respect for history .

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Same. Almost all other videos I've seen covering it are extremely short on details. Replaced instead with hyperbolic condemnation that it was all preplanned and fake.

[@rogermartinez78]

Don’t you two watch PBS in the US or read history books about the Vietnam war?

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

@@rogermartinez78 PBS is awful at history topics.

[@neilreynolds3858]

Make notes so you'll recognize it when they do it again.

[@finddeniro]

Big . Night Naval Battle.. Tonkin..

[@oregonoutback7779]

One piece of this puzzle that continually keeps getting lost to history, is the Cuban Missile Crisis. There were some in the US government convinced there would be a nuclear strike on the US by Russia. There were not enough stores of morphine to deal with such an attack on the population. A government agency was tasked with creating a smoke screen to bring huge volumes of opium out of the Golden Triangle. Vietnam, next door, provided that smoke screen. It was originally intended to be a short term operation, but typical of so many government's, too much money rolled in and there was no way this agency nor the MIC were letting go of this opportunity. The assignation of Diem was key to solidifying the smoke screen. If you follow the money trail that paid the General to take out Diem, you discover this missing puzzle piece. It's a fascinating story.

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

An intellectual has hit you tube...marvellous I am subscribed and looking forward to more great work!

[@larsnystrom6698]

I remember how The Gulf of Tonkin incident was reported in the media at that time. American could learn from that how the US goes about getting a war started. But I doubt they actually will learn that. That method will work time and again!

[@lesheinen6116]

As in WMDs

[@martijn9568]

Wow. This video is a half an hour long rollercoaster! I knew bits about the Vietnam war, but not much due to the Dutch school system not being interested in the topic (Not for bad reason mind you). But now I can finally make up for that. 👍thumbs up from me!👍

[@neilreynolds3858]

In the US, it was talked about constantly but the point of what was taught was mostly a coverup for just how awful every decision was that was made by our government and how murderously we treated our own troops who were dumped after the war the same way we dumped the South Vietnamese. The Vietnamese were collateral damage from our view and dismissed. When we were told about Calley and MyLai, our reaction was why? They weren't doing anything that we weren't doing every day. They had to shift the blame to the troops so the real war criminals could be promoted instead of punished. Our troops were witnesses and had to be portrayed as crazy and evil so nobody would believe us. They got away with it and that means that every history that's been written is corrupted. If you can't talk about the truth, you can never learn so we never learned the "lessons of Vietnam".

[@Catrinus1]

The history of the VietNam war is quite similar to the Dutch Indonesian war. The irony in my family is we fought on the side of the Dutch 1945-1950, got kicked out of Indonesia, went to Holland for 5-10 years, and then emigrated to the US. I have 5 cousins who then served in the US military in VietNam, the second generation fighting an unwinnable war.

[@richardschneller7674]

History is so crucial to understanding one’s current situation. Thanks for informing us with such clear information!

[@fredaaron762]

The Commander of the US Fifth Carrier Division at the time of the Gulf of Tonkin incident was Captain George Stephen Morrison, the father of Jim Morrison on the Doors. Despite many conspiracy theorists, Morrison was not at the incident but was at sea near Japan in his flagship USS Bon Homme Richard at the time.

[@Mondo762]

So Jim Morrison was a Navy Brat. That explains a lot.

[@PeaknikMicki]

And Gulf of Tonkin incident was later admitted as never having happened, by McNamara, on video

[@Mondo762]

My father was among the first 10 US Army officers to enter Viet Nam after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. He was later sent back as an Advisor in 1959. The family was to follow him to Saigon but he told us to stay in the States because it was getting hot. He did not need to have his wife and 4 children in a potential war zone. Thank you for this more factual presentation of the early days of the US involvment in Viet Nam. My only reservation was the statement about the "16,000 Advisors in Viet Nam when Kennedy was assinated". Those were not "Advisors". In fact I worked with a man that was in the 101st Airborne in Viet Nam in 1962. He was certainly not an "Advisor".It was Kennedy that sent in the first combat troops.

[@ronwhiteman8892]

We had advisors under Eisenhower and they were more than advisors.

[@gchukma]

My friend Bill served during the middle 60s in Viet Nam, when going onto any military base wore a t-shirt that stated "Ours was not a humanitarian mission". Killing was the job, getting home was the reward.

[@Mondo762]

@@ronwhiteman8892The UN limited the US Advisors to 275. It stayed that way until Kennedy came along and went way over the limit.

[@garycole520]

One of the best documentaries on this disastrous war.

[@stevengoodloe3893]

My dad was in the Navy during Vietnam and conducted Naval gunfire support for the RVN and US troops. He says we should have backed Ho Chi Minh.

[@markgarrett3647]

Your Dad doesn't know that Ho was literally a trained agent of the Communist International.

[@chrishamlin5863]

History has vindicated your dad. Vietnam is now an economic partner and strategic ally of the US, which is exactly what Ho Chi Minh wanted back in 1945.

[@neilreynolds3858]

We should have stayed out but there were too many officers who needed a war to get their promotions and Johnson was an egomaniac who wanted a war so he'd be remembered as a heroic wartime President like his hero FDR.

[@ronwhiteman8892]

And he was right.

[@khoabuianh8101]

Cộng sản chỉ là bàn đạp để chúng tôi giải phóng dân tộc khỏi ách thực dân , và giá như tổng thống Truman biết được điều đó và đứng về phía Việt Minh thì có lẽ không có những mạng sống của hai bên bị hi sinh vô nghĩa 😢

[@Ed_Stuckey]

Thank you, sir. Many details I didn't know or had forgotten even though I lived through a portion of this time period in the military (1961-1966).

[@KAISERSCHL8]

Once again a superb quality in this episode, very in depth and informative. Would love to see more cold war content!

[@realtimehistory]

the next Vietnam war video will drop in early January

[@KAISERSCHL8]

@@realtimehistory Amazing, can't wait!

[@nextworld9176]

BEST presentation of the start of the Vietnam War I've ever seen.

[@user-xp6tl5ug5j]

thank you very much for your informations

[@josedavidgarcesceballos7]

Have to say it is a shame not seeing in the bibliography any vietnamese source, although I understand the language barrier. Cheers.

[@phambadien650]

This video explains from one side

[@hedgehog3180]

Using sources in the language you are writing in is generally considered an academic standard, if you use a source in a different language you are expected to translate it to make it available to anyone criticizing you. The only exceptions to this is if you're writing in a field where everyone is expected to know the language in question, like say Norse mythology where everyone is expected to be able to read old norse, or when you're writing in a non-English language and referring to an English source. Obviously as you imply there are issues with this as sources in specific languages can still have biases, and there's an obvious bias towards English culture since it's treated as the global standard language.

[@Jorlaan42]

Another excellent video. I'm loving the Vietnam content and hope it continues.

[@realtimehistory]

yep, we will take a short break until December now but there are quite a few more episodes to come.

[@Jorlaan42]

@@realtimehistory Awesome!

[@amotaba]

Excellent video

[@absoliutenuds]

Subscribed. This channel came across my feed for a reason.

[@realtimehistory]

welcome

[@jamesbetker6862]

I knew a guy that was in 26th Infantry Division. They were in the invasion of Cambodia. He always carried extra frags. At night they would camp off the trail and set up Claymore mines along the trail. One night and NVA patrol came thru. They guy on the switch for the Claymores was asleep. He started throwing frags. He was awarded a South Vietnamese medal for killing Communists but he never picked it up.

[@welcometonebalia]

Thank you.

[@NigelDeForrest-Pearce-cv6ek]

Brilliant!!!

[@garypiont6114]

Excellent vid .

[@NaumRusomarov]

As always great content. Excellent.

[@cordial001]

In late 2001, I was in Louisiana in the U.S. Some people I talked to were adamant the "Vietnam War" never took place (to support their main assertion that the USA didn't lose the war) since war was never declared. I've never looked into how widespread that view is in the U.S., but that group was very, very touchy about anyone even referring to the "Vietnam War" by that term at all.

[@bluedragontoybash2463]

they probably believe US didn't flee from Afghanistan either. Just let those people be

[@Oxtocoatl13]

You can still find plenty of Americans cherrypicking minutiae to avoid admitting that Americans are just people and don't always win wars. Probably even in the comments of this video. Evidently the cultural scars of Vietnam run deep.

[@martijn9568]

Jup, it's like that 'special military operation' Russia is calling a war right now. Some people should just know that real life isn't honourable, and that wars don't have to be declared to be actual wars.

[@chrishamlin5863]

Never underestimate the power of denial.

[@johncehna601]

@@martijn9568 Russia call it a SMO because they have a law forbid them to invade neighbor country by an invasion war, also why they do election to annex territories into Russia. That's also the reason they use mostly their arsenal to attack, it limits the human cost so they wont have to recruit more and make this an official war. It's still a war, but at least they dont fly half the earth to support an colonizing attempt and invade a country that never harmed an America fly

[@chriswarburtonbrown1566]

Following such grim topics, I've always loved your 'The only history channel that...' conclusions. Thanks for the laughs... And the history.

[@MrFagedaboudit]

NamVet here. I recommend Barbara Tuchman's "March of Folly" on this.

[@MikeHunt-fo3ow]

those destroyers collided a bunch of times in ur animation lol

[@mohammedsaysrashid3587]

It was an informative and wonderful introduction series worked

[@benedictnwabuzor4401]

Detailed and interesting

[@charleskiarie603]

Amazing 😮

[@kingjoe3rd]

I had never heard about the Catholic minority pogroming the Buddhist majority in Vietnam. That burning Buddhist monk image has always been cast as him doing it for "peace" because of the war and not about the religious persecution.

[@yevonsama]

It is simple because you don't hear about it. It happen frequently in South Vietnam during that period. Both French and U.S and even Diem supported Catholic minority very much, because they look more pro-Western" than other Vietnamese. One among the famost cases is in Binh Hung - Hai Yen at Ca Mau province. It is actually the village ( fortress) of Catholic minority. During Diem's rule, with the support of South Vietnam government who is pro-Catholic, they received military supplies and weapons, and have the right to do anything against other villages who living around them. Very many citizens are massacred by them. Rape, behead, take girls from other village to build brothel for themselves, we got even report about cannibalism. They can do anything and kill anyone by claming " they are VC". However, if you read " Binh Hung - Hai Yen" in English, you maybe just got some writing that it is a peaceful village who fight very hard against VC.

[@markgarrett3647]

Because it's not true and the monks were Communist symphathisers.

[@markgarrett3647]

@@yevonsama Sounds like the kind of fake garbage that Pham Xuan An would feed naive American journalists.

[@zachjordan7608]

he was doing it because of persecution, but also like the above reply states the persecution was very linked to the war

[@kindkoun]

@@yevonsamaSound likes Viet Cong cai's propaganda!

[@jamestakacs]

You need to look at the war in Laos and in Cambodia. Both were very big parts on the Vietnam War.

[@bigsarge2085]

Informative documentary, thank you.

[@lynnwood7205]

@14:28. A Quad 50 mount (M55) on a 2 1/2ton truck (M35) Note the raised bed of the truck

[@user-cd4bx6uq1y]

Very cool channel

[@toddmoss1689]

Ho Chi Min had lived the United States and greatly admired Americans. The Vietnamese would later claim General George Washington as inspiration for their overall strategy versus the United States.

[@user-xq1fc6uy3d]

You're right ! but partly ! Most Vietnamese people at that time did not know who Washington was.

[@davemilke3110]

I think what may have helped the war, was the short memory of what happened in the Korean war, a decade earlier.

[@giankperez6377]

A clean version.

[@tomkatinokla1]

Not to be overly picky, but McNamara and the others who were at Ford postwar were the "Whiz Kids", not the :Wise Guys".

[@marknewton7539]

The Whiz Kids were young (relatively speaking) analysts and others McNamara brought into the DoD, from RAND etc. The Wise Men refers to Kennedy/Johnson's cabinet: Walt Rostow, McGeorge Bundy, George Ball, Dean Rusk, John McCone, McNamara etc. They were two separate groups.

[@SABPDK38]

If the Unification Vote happened, Ho Chi Minh would win and there wouldn't be war after that. Viet Minh is the force that defeated French and Japanese, whereas ARVN had been in French side. The fact that Diem would win over 98% of the votes was such an obvious joke.

[@somboonsaetang6380]

Yes, Diem won over 98% of the votes like KIM JONG UN of North Korea at present!

[@khanhmai5006]

Well, the US can even fake a provoke gulf of Tonkin incident so it is kind of normal for Diem to win over even 101% of the votes 😂

[@ucnguyenanh9414]

Well, Diem won the election for the Power in the South agaisnt Bao Dai, which is a very low bar compare to a voting for reunification against HCM.

[@havu-oj4qh]

The Vietnamese have supported the Communist Party since it born in 1930 to defeat France, the US, the Khmer Rouge, and China to protect Vietnam no matter how much the enemy' propaganda machine defames them!

[@248paul]

Actually Diem regime was created by the US.

[@bobbystanley8580]

This is what I dreamed was possible on KZbin!!!!

[@sankarchaya]

its hard to understand the strategic idea behind supporting a Catholic authoritarian in a mostly Buddhist and Confucian country. the coup seems like an ad hoc attempt to deal with that strategic (to say nothing of moral) error after the fact.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

On the other hand, Americans in the 1950s would probably been biased in the favor of a strong, Christian leader who seemed like he would keep the minorities and commies in check. It might not have occurred to them that a religious extremist from an unpopular minority religion would not easily keep up popular support.

[@flashwashington2735]

Merely an experiment in karma.

[@stephendaley266]

From 1945 to 1989, US foreign policy was to fanatically support the most far-right anti-communist leaders around the world, regardless of popular support or human rights violations. For roughly 30 years, "democratic" South Korea and Taiwan were basically right-wing dictatorships. The CIA allegedly orchestrated upwards of 70 coups over the years.

[@amkrause2004]

The reason why, is because communism in that time was atheist. That's why we strongly support catholic regimes.

[@flashwashington2735]

@@amkrause2004John Kennedy broke the mould, before him mist Americans considered Catholicism a subversive divisive cult. Now, please lease tell me of the Christian, Jewish, Islamic cultures that are communist today. To my knowledge, you can have a communist government that gives lio service to honoring faith, but communism remains an authoritarian state of faith intolerant to all others.

[@user-cd4bx6uq1y]

17:03 made me think about 1984

[@extrahistory8956]

The United States literally did a 1984 in Vietnam.

[@wernerheenop]

I love this Vietnam war series.

[@heintzreckons]

Tonkin Gulf. Many of us (hippies, war protestors, socialist youth) knew it was fake at the time, and were pretty sure it would lead to a vast waste and a defeat.

[@franciskiraguri6247]

The same way they lied about Hama's killed children

[@hedgehog3180]

@@franciskiraguri6247 Who is Hama?

[@chipschannel9494]

A “strategic hamlet “ was on lock down from dusk until dawn, without the “village heads” permission you were a Cong outside the village after dark . They were work release prisons , in their own country, land , home , so that they couldn’t learn to think differently .

[@jackknife89actual]

My father was there on the USS Ticonderoga. He tells a different story about the night of August 1st. His close friend, a specialist in electronic warfare, was transferred to the Maddox. That night it went close into shore, "steaming among the junks" was how he put it, to listen in on North Vietnamese communications. They got reports of PT boats headed their way and tried to steam out beyond the 14 mile mark but (if I remember correctly) they lost a boiler and couldn't make full speed. Apparently the "one hit" on a PT boat the video mentioned was scored by the ship's cook.

[@nomenicuss2091]

What is up with vietnam war all of the sudden on all history channels?

[@flashwashington2735]

Conspiracy!!! Shhhh-hhh-hh-hhhhhhh!!!!!¡

[@Historymotion]

They come to the deal making Vietnam and Usa become total partner...something like that. 😁

[@vinceb4380]

Can you do the Start of the Korean War as well?

[@GPDermawan]

28:10 soundtrack epilogue

[@54032Zepol]

Never forget that ho chi Minh was trained and armed by the u.s.

[@aurorathekitty7854]

In the US if you wanna know who will be your enemy tomorrow look who's the government supplying weapons to today.

[@venkmanny4100]

Because he liked the US and was the last person that wanted war with them.

[@EternalModerate]

@@venkmanny4100 Shame he was a communist.

[@simonbroberg969]

Nothing surprises us these days, as the CIA asked the SAS to train the Talabahn in Afghanistan to fight the Russian then got kicked out by the ones that the SAS had trained. P.S. First thing Churchill was told about Afghanistan is not to bother as no one ever wins there.

[@pax6833]

Many Americans wanted to work with Ho Chi Mihn but unfortunately more Americans valued the French and feared the Chinese more. Luckily US-Vietnam relations have been repaired and are better than ever.

[@32.baotin22]

As a vietnamese, thank you for talking about our history

[@haduong96353a]

🙄

[@SpermDonorAnthonyGreenfield]

​@@haduong96353a😂 offended?

[@oldreprobate2748]

May I suggest that you comsider reading, or listening to Marine Smedley D Butler's book War Is A Racket.

[@extrahistory8956]

Nice that you made this a series

[@realtimehistory]

More to come!

[@whyjnot420]

The opening sentences are more on point than a lot of people will realize. Limited war compared to unlimited war. The latter explicitly means regime change, the former explicitly means no regime change. I.e. the first Gulf War was a limited war, the second Gulf War was an unlimited war. The US fought a limited war in Vietnam while the North Vietnamese fought an unlimited war. When thought about in this manner, it really helps to make sense of what happened in Vietnam. At the same time, it makes you aware of the wordplay being used by politicians. Limited and unlimited war, used this way, is within the purview of top level strategic theoreticians. They are not used the way an average person would tend to use them.

[@flashwashington2735]

Wrong. They were never declared wars. This is the crime and tragic excuse for malevolence causing existential pain, death, and suffering for thousands.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

Vietnam has resources that the US Investors wanted to develop. France was looking for the same thing. It was colonial expansion that did not offer the profits they intended to discover. The 1967 currency crisis seemed to indicate that the contemporary efforts that are beyond the US ability to pay for are similar.

[@euanreid6682]

Really dropping the equivalent of 600 Hiroshima bombs on a tiny third world country... throw in another 12 million gallons of Agent Orange a biological WMD which severely mutated 150k children.. not forgetting targeting civilians with B52's strikes to save face during negotiations was a "limited war"... but yeah Assad is a bad guy right hypocrite?

[@amkrause2004]

That is correct. Limited wars allow politicians to control said war.

[@whyjnot420]

@@amkrause2004 You realize they control unlimited war as well. At least in the US.

[@Taporeee]

Yhe background is incredibly important

[@Kavala76]

I'd be very interested in seeing North and South Vietnamese histories of the Vietnam war.

[@shatterquartz]

4:10 "In order to prevent the Communists from destroying your traditional way of life, we're doing it ourselves!"

[@pax6833]

"We had to destroy the village to avoid losing the village"

[@havu-oj4qh]

Brazen aggression cannot be excused as stupid.

[@toangomo]

Funny thing about strategic hamlets that It is very difficult to convince Vietnamese people to leave their homes and land to live in strategic hamlets. Therefore, in many cases, ARVN and American soldiers had to burn houses to drag them away. This causes great dissatisfaction among Vietnamese people. Because they have a tradition of living in the land left by their ancestors. The South Vietnamese government then had to propagate that the Viet Cong were terrorists and burned people's houses to appease public opinion.

[@markgarrett3647]

Replacing potential Communist symphathisers isn't destroying anything.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

I love it when people (usually Americans) try to portray Vietnam as a war between communism and democracy. Like... Sure, North Vietnam was a communist dictatorship, but the South was an equally oppressive regime run first by a militant religious minority faction and then, after a violent military coup, by a military junta. There was no democracy in Vietnam and the American government knew and accepted that.

[@Willys-Wagon]

While I am not against presenting the tokin golf incident as frayed nerves, it is subject to heavy debate if there were element of false flag operating or part of a covert operation gone wrong.

[@extrahistory8956]

I mean, the second incident is up for debate, but the first one did happen, albeit the Vietnamese were justified due to the nearby coastal raids that the US had supported. That said, I personally believe that the US military would have found an excuse sooner or later to get involved.

[@stanwest3091]

It has been subject to debate but most modern historians worth their weight reject this. I mean, if we think about it for a moment, a false flag operation doesn't make sense for multiple reasons. 1. Why did they need a second attack? The Tonkin Resolution was as much a response to the first real attack, as the second 'incident'. Why go through the trouble of planning a second fake attack (within about 24 hours), when you will probably already get your Congressional resolution (if that was the goal)? 2. Why did they send the Turner Joy? If you were planning a false flag operation, why would you double the number of potential witnesses, bring in double the number of officers who presumably are involved/need to maintain secrecy/double the number of people to convince. It's clear the Turner Joy was sent because they were concerned about a real attack. Not to mention the destroyers' air cover from aircraft carriers - who report seeing no enemy ships and add another variable. 3. Why would Johnson do this? As mentioned, he had no interest in going to war. He thought he was the only man capable of healing America's great domestic issues, like race relations. How does a war in Vietnam promote any of that? Even after gaining the resolution, he doesn't use it. Are we suggesting the military did this behind his back? This seems like even more of a stretch. The Tonkin Resolution gave him the power to intervene, but he didn't use it until North Vietnam ACTUALLY attacked US personnel. Unless we're now also saying Camp Holloway was a false flag? 4. If it was a false flag operation, it was a pretty lousy one. There was no physical evidence produced, because nothing happened. You'd think the US would plant some ambiguous debris, a Vietnamese corpse or two, put a few superficial holes in the Maddox, do something to make it seem real if it was a false flag. Yet all they had were REAL radio intercepts WRONGLY translated and some dubious eyewitness reports. 5. The organizations perhaps best placed to plan a false flag operation, like the CIA, were opposed to intervention from the start. With many conspiracies theories, there is the tendency to see our governments as masterly, Machiavellian plotters, who can pull this kind of thing off. Maybe that's more reassuring to some than the actual reality. Which is many governments are incredibly incompetent, bungle their way through crises and can barely organise their actual everyday operations with any kind of efficiency, let alone plot and maintain global conspiracies.

[@Willys-Wagon]

@@extrahistory8956 I agree, US was heading down that path regardless. If not Tokin incident there would have been another.

[@hedgehog3180]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination of frayed nerves and motivated reasoning. These kinds of incidents where overeager soldiers open fire at imaginary enemies happen all the time but usually a thorough investigation would follow to clear up exactly what happened. However clearly no such investigation happened because the people who got the reports were more than happy to recieve these reports, either because it was a false flag or because they didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth. So even if it wasn't a false flag there was a breach of procedure that helped manufacturer the incident. Plus when you have boats consistently clearly breaching a country's territorial waters you shouldn't be surprised when said boats are attacked and after the first incident it should have been obvious that continuing this would lead to an incident. And again one might suspect that whoever was in charge kept up these missions in the full knowledge that this would eventually lead to an incident.

[@peacepeople9895]

I find it interesting that you rarely hear or see it brought up that Ho Chi Minh was at Versaille asking about independence for his people. Of course he was blown off and colonialism continued, so he turned to who ever would listen to lend support for them to gain independence. Enter the USSR and here is what happens. Quite frankly it's a matter of racism, colonialism and inability of the western powers to listen. You can add that most of what came out Washington at that time was not really to be trusted as they were so bent on being anti communist that they couldn't see the forest for the trees. So from 1919 to 1959 the US, and I'm in the USA, basically decided Vietnam didn't exist, it was just French Indochina and the French's problem until USSR got involved. Then, suddenly, Vietnam was a real country and real people...and communism couldn't grow...so ... well you know the rest

[@danielhutchinson6604]

As French and American Troops are asked to vacate Niger, the concept of Colonial Exploitation appears to be demonstrated once more.

[@havu-oj4qh]

History has shown that Vietnamese people always lower themselves to avoid war, but the great powers, with their inherent arrogance, forced the Vietnamese people to take up arms to fight back and in the end we won !

[@anhhoanguc6068]

Because of the domino theory of the president Truman and several reasons, the GI Joe had invaded into South Vietnam. ( As a Vietnamese person' perspective).

[@Mondo762]

Wrong. The US was invited into Viet Nam.

[@anhhoanguc6068]

What evidence could you sure that the US was invited? Can you give evidence?

[@ucnguyenanh9414]

​​@@Mondo762By separatists who disregarded its territorial integrity, so basically the same.

[@havu-oj4qh]

@@Mondo762 US created Diem's puppet government to force them to do anything. When Diem didn't listen, the CIA killed them. Shameless farce.

[@hedgehog3180]

@@Mondo762 Like how Russia was invited into the Donbass and Crimea?

[@Jim-nt7xy]

What , Vietnam didn't have Weapons of Mass Destruction either?

[@ucnguyenanh9414]

We're considering to have some now.

[@monkeyking-self-proclaimed7050]

@@ucnguyenanh9414 You didn't get the point of his comment.

[@ucnguyenanh9414]

@@monkeyking-self-proclaimed7050 And you failed to get mine

[@maddogpham9815]

LMFAO. Yes, that was why 2 USS destroyers were sent there, deep in the North Vietnamese water to look for WMD, and they found the North VN had secret WMD that can shoot many torpedoes from all directions and radar could not see them, even they thought they got them but found nothing the day after, no debris, no torpedoes, not even any Vietnamese fishing boat nearby. That was enough for Johnson to call in for Rolling Thunder bombing campaign and Agent Orange to change the jungles color in VN. Why didn't JFK come up with that WMD bs excuse and finish Cuba instead of sending Johnson and the CIA to arrange the coup to kill Diem and Nhu, and later sent US troops to South VN for meat grinder? So what if Russia bluffed and withdrew their missiles from Cuba, invade it anyway and made it a 51th state and called it a "Sugarcanes and Cigars" state.

[@perryantonucci5071]

remember the Maine ..

[@wendyshoowaiching4161]

Its a sad and hardship chapter of the history of Vietnam

[@originaldownload3955]

And just what makes anyone think that this type of thing isn't constantly happening all the time.... Look at where we are now.....

[@chrishamlin5863]

Thank you for your efforts to present the history of the Vietnam War. America has never recovered from it and never will until they come to grips with what happened.

[@neilreynolds3858]

Yeah, it's been almost 60 years and most of us who were there are dead and what's being called the history is merely a way to make sure we have more cannon fodder for the next time we get pissed off with some regime and decide to topple it. Since that could be in days, it's really too late to learn.

[@billstapleton1084]

America wanted a war. The economy was starting to slow. The Military Industrial complex saw a way to stimulate the economy and at the same time pad their checkbooks.

[@trob1173]

Our government doesn't even care if our military wins or loses, just so long as the rich get richer. Read 'War is a Racket' by USMC General and Medal of Honor (×2) awardee Smedley Butler.

[@boondocker7964]

Small book, lots of content though.@@trob1173

[@fizkallnyeilsem]

@billstapleton, bro everything US does is for resources like Oil, theres no resources in Vietnam (oil), thats why it was easier to left there (after 20 years tryna save face) in comparison to Germany using U-boats indiscriminant attacks in Atlantic, and Japan gatekeeping pacific oil in Indonesia. Theres no way America "stimilated their economy" on Vietnam that just doesnt make sense, they lost Billions money converted today. Maybe the gulf war, they benefited in that. But in Nam it was a net negative

[@navidkarimi2552]

Keep up comrades ❤❤❤❤ Please release a video about the siege of kobane

[@user-oy2ew6pj3h]

The USA never learned any lessons from the Vietnam War. The USA got involved in the Iraq war on false pretense just like the Vietnam war. And so it got tangled up in these forever wars even to this day. You cannot use so-called superior weapons to defeat the will of people ,especially if it is an unjustified war. The USA should learn to concentrate on its own domestic issues rather going all over the world to be the world's police man. So much lives and money being wasted when it could be used to improve people's lives in the USA and around the world. Its just pathetic

[@Wonderwhoopin]

Because of THAT one song Fortunate Son by Creedence Clearwater Revival. If we never played it then none of that would have happened

[@pop5678eye]

What happened over and over (Cuba, Korea, Vietnam) is that communism got a foothold _because_ Western powers were propping up repressive dictatorships. (although the average American still thinks we were fighting 'for democracy')

[@binhha4307]

Hello youtube wishing all you have a great week

[@D-B-Cooper]

During the Second World War the US promised Viet Nam freedom if they would keep the Japanese busy there so the soldiers there would not return to Japan to defend it. After the war the US implemented the Marshal plan and gave Nam back to the French, Vichy French. The Vietnamese were treated even worse under the French than the Japanese. The people wanted to fight them but the only help they got was from the communists.

[@namvet_13e]

Actually it was firepower that solved this conflict. The problem is it was Russian and Chinese firepower in the hands of their North Vietnamese client state. It also wasn't a guerilla war that accomplished that, rather an enormous ground invasion by the north, led with plenty of armor. After the US got a settlement that got our POWs released, the US then reduced our support and watched the north mass an enormous invasion force that swept down the road all the way into Saigon. I was over there from mid '69 to mid '70. It was very disappointing to see how all our efforts had been spent on a losing cause because the politicians wouldn't give the south enough military support to survive, unlike what we did for Korea.

[@toangomo]

This is a false information. When North Vietnam launched a general attack, the South Vietnamese army was still twice as large as the North. The South has superiority in weapons, air force and navy. The ammunition reserves used for North Vietnam's general attack were only equivalent to the ammunition reserves of a South Vietnamese tactical area. The North Vietnamese army captured many ammunition depots of South Vietnam and added them to their reserves. They also used it in two wars with the Khmer Rouge and China over the next 20 years, but the ammunition still hadn't run out. The propaganda that South Vietnam did not receive aid and therefore lacked ammunition was a fraudulent explanation to avoid embarrassing the United States. South Vietnam's combat traditions were strongly supported by the United States from the beginning, so they were accustomed to spamming firepower at the enemy regardless of whether it was necessary or not. So when aid from the United States is reduced, according to calculations, South Vietnam can only use it for a short period of time. while the North Vietnamese Army, with limited transportation and aid from China and the Soviet Union, had to use ammunition very economically and accurately for many years. That is why, when seizing weapons and ammunition from South Vietnam, the Northern army can still use them for many years without running out.

[@danielhutchinson6604]

The lack of Money in 1967 appeared to reveal a lot about what was dedicated to fighting for the Resources in Vietnam that originally were supposed to generate profits. We see similar effects today as the US faces total financial disaster from spending more than profits can overcome. Russia was supposed to be easy to defeat as was the Viet Cong. The US used up so much ordinence and fuel in Korea that the ability to continue to support the conflict in Nam was beyond the financial ability of the US. We seem to notice the US and France once again being asked to get out of Niger for just about the same reasons.

[@battleriteroyalevietnam8447]

It is a guerila war. Most of the time the war fight by liberation front. Which is people inside the south. The north rarely send their elite troop over there. Only leader and inteligence agent to build up the army. a false impression that the north attack the south. But the truth is. People of the south liberation themself. Arvn just dont accept communist in their territory and call everyone against their ideology is the north side.

[@cletus223]

@14:15 I didn't know the level of U.S. involvement was debated, all I've ever read has indicated the U.S. backed the army coup to replace Diem since he wasn't very effective as a leader.

[@vernon9121]

People who know say a bomber was sent as a favor to France. The pilot knew to fly over Laos and would not have fuel to return. The bomber with secret orders drops the bombs.

[@LaikaIvanova]

Really appreciate the way you present these topic. Would be interesting to see videos about the conflict revolving Israel, especially how history lead up to it's creation in the decades prior.

[@jessealexander2695]

Thanks

[@nukataco]

Thank you so much for diving deep into the interwar period. Mainstream history often glosses this over, and basically skips from Dien Bien Phu to Gulf of Tonkin and calls it a day. It's important to highlight the complexities at play.

[@PeaknikMicki]

And Gulf of Tonkin incident was later admitted as never having happened, by McNamara, on video

[@pudanielson1]

South Vietnam, the state of Vietnam actually never signed the Geneva Accord with elections that were planned for "1956". History forgets that

[@greatsageequaltoheaven8115]

Because they were an American puppet state.

[@truckingmogul3254]

In the words of Slim Charles, “If it’s a lie, then we go to war on that lie!”

[@user-rh8fl8qz2z]

At the time they never told us what the war was FOR. Additionally, US troops were NOT trained to fight in those CONDITIONS, neither did they have the TECHNOLOGY to fight such an enemy. Its no wonder that so many troops got killed, wounded, and returned with PERMANENT MAJOR PTSD conditions.

[@maddogpham9815]

Does not matter how well you train the troops, even if sending Bristish Bear Grylls there, he would NOT last a month in Vietnam jungles.

[@HughButler-lb6zs]

The war wasn't fought with the goal to win. It was fought as a police action. That means it was reactive giving the enemy a big advantage. The Vietnamese army wasn't on the defensive.

[@keiko909]

The U.S. has not experienced guerrilla warfare. Maybe they did in Korea, but come Vietnam that has been forgotten. Vietnam was their wake up call. Same with air combat. Pilots had lost their aerial combat skills (hence the birth of “top gun”).

[@HughButler-lb6zs]

@keiko909 yes they have. The FBI attacked a family in Ruby Ridge using guerilla warfare, and in Waco Texas using seige tactics.

[@keiko909]

@@HughButler-lb6zsI stand corrected. I wonder why this type of combat was not implemented by troops? IF that was the case?

[@andreoates8405]

So you mean to tell me the Navy shot 300 shells at invisible monsters with no debris or floating bodies😮, somebody lying just a waste😡

[@maddogpham9815]

That was North Vietnamese Weapon of Mass Destruction. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 US didn't just sent two destroyers there deep in enemy water for nothing. They needed something to justify the killing innocent civilians. That was how the Rolling Thunder bombing campaign, and the Agent Orange took place thereafter.

[@hedgehog3180]

It happens surprisingly often.

[@kisstagals]

Robert McNamara and General Westmoreland was the biggest blunder of US for vietnam war.

[@ronniemavhunga]

So many lives lost unnecessarily

[@SuperMookles]

The Ken Adams documentary on the war is an unrivalled masterpiece.

[@marianotorrespico2975]

--- SURE the COURT VIDEOGRAPHER SAYS THAT . . . if you insist upon pretending to see "both sides", the uninvited Foreigner and the Native, as each possessing the right to rule an Asian country.

[@pax6833]

Well done to RTH for providing such a comprehensive and balanced look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident. This moment in American history is so controversial and has descended into mythical levels on account of how much people have reshaped its history to fit their ideology. It really shows how reluctant the US actually was for this war and sort of drug into it by a combination of policy failures in Vietnam and domestic political concerns.

[@havu-oj4qh]

The United States hatched a plot to dominate Vietnam through the minions they created in Saigon. Calling that plot reluctance is a lie.

[@hedgehog3180]

I think your understanding of events is flawed because you act like the US is a single entity with some sort of collective will and mind. The US, the entire country, did not have a single opinion on this. The right wing Republican party supported escalation and so did the advisors to the president and those two largely got to dictate events because of the specific circumstances even if Lyndon B. Johnson did not want escalation. The Democrats who had voted for Lyndon B. Johnson were not very enthusiastic about escalation and were wary of another Korea.

[@Rajul_Jamil]

As a Vietnam Vet it is an easy answer....The Military Industrial Complex !!!

[@lynnwood7205]

@9:11. If only we had had such a small portable COLOR TV in 1961...

[@greorbowlfinder7078]

The French were done with their colonial girl friend. So the USA wanted to take over the relationship rather than have Vietnam date China.

[@EternalModerate]

Ironically Vietnam never wanted to date China.

[@black10872]

60 years later, Vietnam becomes America's girlfriend.

[@sentryward8744]

The problem is Vietnam would never want to date China in the first place. The US at the time was just too ignorance to see that

[@jaysomewhereinflyoverterri735]

All of the ridiculous rules regarding engaging the enemy during that war were implemented with one thing in mind. To have a prolonged war where the arms manufactures' and those who produced support goods for a war would benefit. The Vietnam war was fought to fleece the taxpayers of billions of dollars that the military, industrial, banking complex put into their pockets.

[@trob1173]

Exactly. Knowing this puts a different light on our 20 yrs in Iraq/Afghanistan doesn't it?