Why did this Boeing 737 CRASH into a bridge, just after takeoff?! | Air Florida flight 90

[@antoniomaglione4101]

Your level of production is incredible, it looks like to me to be watching a National Geographic documentary. I'm sure a lot of good will come out for you, following these investigative / forensic works. In a single stroke you have smashed all other aeronautical investigation channels on KZbin. Bravo.

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you! That’s very kind

[@Frazoor]

He puts so much effort in, it's always so informative and interesting. I'd also recommend 'The Flight Channel' fantastic reconstructions there too.

[@CMDRSweeper]

As long as they let the facts speak and leave the dramatization guys behind, you get quality like this. Quite often the details are more scary than anything Hollywood or Dramatized Documentaries can dream up at any day of the week.

[@Stettafire]

I like how he presents the facts. No conspiracies, no glorifying the disaster. That's something big media could learn from

[@normatible9795]

Excellent presentation and narration ang for that I subscribed

[@GreatDogs]

Please don't forget Lenny Skutnik. The bystander who threw off his clothes and dove into the river to help. Not a fireman, not crew, not helicopter personnel; an employee of the budget office who saved the life of Priscilla Tirado. ♥

[@one8s7n]

Martin was a good man

[@elishavarivka8923]

A true hero! ❤

[@95blahblahhaha]

Why would he throw his clothes off tho????

[@Kilogramskk]

@@95blahblahhaha why would you not when going swimming ?

[@Federiklion]

@@95blahblahhaha To reduce drag and weight while swimming (wet clothes are heavier). Also when you get out of the water with wet clothes in those temperatures your body cannot mantain heat and you will have hypothermia. So it made sense to remove the clothes, go into the water for a few minutes and get back out to put them back again while dry.

[@CASHSEC]

When flying out of Ottawa, Canada, Freezing cold, ice on ground. We were all boarded. "Cabin crew prepare for departure" I looked out of my window and saw that the wings were white and covered with snow. I immediately called the Steward and said that the wings were iced up, Please inform the Captain. Did all of this quietly. Next thing that happens is Pilot comes back and looks out. He spoke to me quietly and said Don't worry it will blow off as we go down the runway. I wasn't happy. The captain returned to his Cabin. About 5 minutes later an announcement was made "This is your captain speaking, Our departure will be delayed for about 50 mins whilst de-icing is conducted. Thank you." Moral of the Story. If you see anything suspicious always inform the Cabin crew.

[@MentourPilot]

Correct!

[@tcuster55]

Sound like you made him think twice

[@LawrenceCarroll1234]

It is sad when a “mere”’ignorant and lowly citizen-passenger has to give sage advice to the “professionals” - but that happens often (& I’m not focusing on just aviation by any means!) .

[@projectionv.accountability1010]

Dang!! Good for you for speaking up!!

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

Awesome!

[@nikkishi2016]

I feel so sad for the first officer. Unlike other first officer who didn’t speak up before the accident happened, he has actually repeatedly raised his doubt and told the captain it is NOT right, but the captain just wouldn’t listen. He probably had seen this coming but just couldn’t save his own life and the whole aircraft. “We are going down, Larry.” Probably the most helpless and devastated last words I’ve heard.

[@juliemanarin4127]

I agree...so horrible! The last words of the FO was heartbreaking! Kind of like...told ya so in a very sad way! Sorry the pilots...crew and passengers as well as drivers on the bridge perished because someone wouldn't listen!

[@Ralnon]

HE would have been forgiven for uttering "I bloody told you" CRM = LIFE.

[@porkrind]

The worst part to me is how the captain fully believes its the first officers fault to the end.

[@Ralnon]

@@porkrind while I don’t disagree with that, in fairness you do have to bear in mind how fast this took place from rolling to being in the river: while being extremely busy. If he had time he may have been able to take the points on board. The pity of the world is that he should have been listening before they ever got to the point of rolling. From then on, short of the 1st officer cutting the engines (in itself very dangerous) they were pretty much doomed. Not enough speed, not enough height, not enough time. Such is the equation of tragedy.

[@11bravo57]

Ugh, that really is extremely sad. They all dies in a completely preventable crash.1

[@laurak.3211]

I appreciate your level of detail. My father was killed on this flight and over the years I have learned as much as I can as I was very young at the time. This flight changed not only de-icing protocols, but also those of communication between the first officer and the pilot. IN fact, their back and forth was used as an example in a sociology class to illustrate when people talk around what they really want to say. The amount of human error from the pilots to the calls made from flight tower were and, still are, astounding. For those in the area, I believe they are trying to do a new dedication of the bridge this summer as this was the 40th anniversary of the crash. Thank you for your hard work!

[@ashleighbaker1407]

I’m so, so sorry about your Dad, it’s amazing you’ve been able to watch this at all. Are you ok with flying? I haven’t been on a plane in 12 years but these videos help me in a weird way. ❤

[@micheleh5269]

Very sorry for your loss. Yes, I agree that the communication between first officer and pilot were primary cause.

[@keivajones1865]

The airport should have been shut down that day since they didn't want to de-ice the plane and so focused on their schedule

[@dianecelento4974]

So sorry for you and your mother's loss. God Bless.

[@droberts8703]

So very sorry for your loss take care

[@MrRoboticBrain]

"We're going down Larry" is probably the saddest "I told you so" ever...

[@emsicz]

what kind of person does it take to see issues with the plane taking off but risks it all on a word of their superior. From the voice recording I was amazed by the tone the FO presented. I think it might have been the military training that he just trusted his superior.

[@mnztr1]

Why did he not just apply full power? After all, you are about to die, may as well give it a shot no?

[@philip6579]

@@emsicz what kind of person? basically all persons, as Milgram showed us.

[@XB10001]

Indeed, and many people paid it with their lives.

[@XB10001]

@@emsicz CRM was much different back then.

[@clairenollet2389]

Of the 5 passengers who escaped the plane, only 4 survived. The fifth man, Arland Dean Williams, Jr., repeatedly handed over the life ring dropped by the helicopter to his fellow passengers. When the helicopter came back for him, he had slipped beneath the water. Before his name was known, he was memorialized in a Time magazine essay by Roger Rosenblatt entitled, "The Man in the Water." It's a moving piece and well worth the read. The 14th Street Bridge was later renamed in Williams' honor.

[@julzbergener8142]

Thank you for sharing about the article. I just read it.

[@L-mo]

Tragic.

[@atifwqs]

Thanks for sharing the best part of this story.

[@bonnybarfriendly8926]

I did not know the 14th Street Bridge was named after Arland Williams!! A fitting tribute to a surviving passenger who gave his life to save others!!

[@ohdear2275]

I remember watching the rescue operation live on TV as it was happening. It was heartbreaking. I later read the story of this noble man and that the bridge was named in memory of him. He was a true hero. May he rest in eternal peace and glory.

[@dieseljester]

I studied this crash when I worked for Delta Airlines and again when I was at Purdue. It's the reason why we have the modern deicing procedures that we use today. To this day they still show raw footage and documentaries of this crash to everyone who goes through deicing training. So the next time you're flying in the winter, and you see those ramp agents spraying your plane down, be sure to thank them for doing a thorough job because this flight is fresh on their minds and they don't want to be responsible for your plane going down like this.

[@persilious81]

Even a basic scientific appreciation could have created modern deicing procedures without having to be built on avoidable deaths

[@BabciaSandy1956]

Purdue alum here. Thanks for the commentary.

[@Muck006]

@@persilious81 Even in science you dont always think of every contingency ... and in this case it was again a multitude of failures that all came together. You also need to remember that science DID HAVE "the correct de-icing mixture" ... but that A WRONG MIXTURE was chosen. A lot of times it is HUMAN FALLIBILITY which creates these problems ... and even science cant fix "stupid" or the pressure of "we are already late, so we dont want to be extra careful now and just get off the runway". Those things are fixed with TRAINING ... and REPETITION OF TRAINING ... until it becomes "muscle memory". Sadly "science" these days is not science anymore and based upon EMOTIONS and SELECTIVE FACT rather than ALL FACTS, LOGIC and REASONING. Just look at your comment ... which EXPECTS "science" to create the PERFECTLY SAFE WORLD ... and ignores mistakes which are made by humans. *Life is neither fair NOR SAFE ... and if it were fair ... you would deserve all the unfair things happening to you!* GET USED TO IT!

[@LV_223]

Fellow Boilermaker! So glad for the absolute top notch education that I received at Purdue’s AET program. Unfortunately, the old saying that “Safety is written in blood” is all too true, and our professors/instructors never let us take that for granted.

[@ruhebitte7999]

I worked as a deicer for about 11years, and I felt much more responsible for peoples life in work, than when I was an bagagehandler...

[@Sadie1017]

I was a flight Attendant from Air Florida. Even now this accident makes me cry. Knew the crew very well. RIP Larry, Roger, Marylynn,Donna. One flight Attendant survived the accident Kelly

[@Jesus_paid_it_all]

Wow... that is very sad.

[@zoso73]

May their souls RIP. God bless.

[@jamessicard6682]

Do you know if the passengers and Kelly received any coin for their suffering?

[@jhbuilders]

I’m sorry for your friends loss. You are very brave to have a attendant job. I remember this accident. I was a kid living in Maryland and my neighbor was stuck in traffic on the bridge. Scary stuff.

[@hollylewis6631]

My brother in law was on that flight. I have had a very hard time overcoming the terror of flying that was caused by this crash. I think of him and all of the people who didn't have to die that day. I'm glad to know that his death wasn't in vain.

[@mungbean345]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[@vanessac622]

Im so sorry for your loss 😔

[@dittohead7044]

Oh how sad. I vividly remember watching this unfold on tv. I’m so sorry

[@greglaman9548]

Very sorry for the tragic loss.i was maybe 10 yrs old and vividly remember watching this,it was when they would break into programming and you knew it was something bad,in 1982-1989-it was usually a plane crash or earthquake etc

[@webdapeeps9015]

A girlfriend of mine was supposed to be on that flight but she was late to the gate and missed it. I watched it on TV not knowing She was ok. Sorry for your loss but this story teller is driving me nuts with his lack of skills, he’s boring as hell.

[@bob2161]

That day, I'd left work early, as had the majority of people that day. An hour and 45 minutes later I had just made it to a junction that normally would have taken me 15 minutes to reach. I was cold, my feet wet, and I was frazzled by the difficult driving conditions. At this junction was a hotel that had a restaurant. I pulled into the lot, parked, and went into the restaurant. This place was known to have good coffee, and I sure needed a cup. This restaurant was popular with the police (you know, because of the coffee). It was right off of the interstate (I-95). I saw 3 state highway patrol cars, 2 marked county cars, and 3 unmarked county cars in the lot when I parked. I went in, sat down, ordered my coffee. Other than the staff, the only people in the place was about a dozen cops and myself. The cops were sitting at two tables and all of their portable radios were on the tables. Within 5 minutes of when I sat down, the radio traffic blew up. I heard the call of aircraft in the river. I moved to a table next to the cops so I could hear better. Where we were, was too far away for these cops to respond. One of the officers asked the manager to turn on the TV. About that time, a radio call stated that the plane had hit the bridge and there were fatalities on the bridge. About that time the news broke in on the TV. The images showed some survivors trying to swim through the shattered ice. A good portion of the planes tail was visible above the water. A park service helicopter was hovering very close to the water, trying to pluck one of the survivors out of the water. An onlooker jumped into the water and saved a passenger that was flailing hopelessly in the water. Turns out, the survivors were basically blind because of the jet fuel on the surface of the water. It had got in their eyes. One of the passengers drowned and went under, on live TV. After they had rescued the few that made it out of the plane, the news cut to the camera crews on the bridge. One of the images was of a sedan, it's roof flattened down to where it was a flat plane from the cars hood to the trunk. The top of the windshield frame was down on the dashboard. Sticking out from under the roof, out over the dashboard, was a bloodied arm, wearing a glove. I remember all of this as if it happened just last week. My dad had worked for an airline since about a week after I was born. I've flown in and out of that airport 75 to 100 times, from the mid 60's through the early 80's. After this accident, I only flew out of that airport another 4 or 5 times. I'm a bit of a plane nerd, I always choose to sit by the left, overwing emergency exit. I'm 6' 6" and this seat had the best leg room (B727-200). I chose the left side because the plane starts a long, sweeping, turn to the left immediately after liftoff. The view of the city is spectacular, but everytime I saw that bridge pass below the wingtip, I said a silent prayer in remembrance of those whose life ended there that cold, snowy, tragic day. I'm glad that this accident prompted a better understanding of the hazards of winter operations. A number of important safety regulations were put in place. Pilot training and operational procedures were improved as a direct result of this accident. However, it was too high a price to pay. Because of people that I knew, through my father, I was able to follow the investigation closer than the general public. I got to hear the CVR about 2 weeks after the crash. I had heard a few other CVRs, and it is always a sobering experience to hear the last moments of somebody's life ending so violently. The thing that bothered me most about this one, was the captain's attitude and incompetence. Within 3 or 4 seconds of beginning the takeoff roll, the captain noticed and commented on the erroneous readings. From that moment on, the FO knew things were very wrong. He kept pointing things out, but the captain never flinched. He just continued narrating and commenting on the disaster as it unfolded. I still don't know if that FO had the authority the abort the takeoff or not. I know that now, he would. I understand that ATC had issued, "Takeoff without delay", and this added urgency to the mix. The captain had already made too many mistakes though. I believe, that even without the "no delay" clearance, that captain would have still made the same decisions. He was too focused on getting out of that snow, and back home to the warmth and sunshine of Fort Lauderdale. That FO was, without a doubt, the more qualified pilot on that flight deck. It's a shame that his life and career, were cut short because of an inferior, superior officer. Not to discount all the other lives he ended that day.

[@redsloane879]

What an excellent write up. Thanks for sharing.

[@scottdelnero7360]

Well done. You know how when you click the "read more" link and up pops a mess of text and your first thought is nah... This ain't one of those. Thanks.

[@bob2161]

@@scottdelnero7360 thanks for the kind words. After I had typed that all up, I went back to check it. My first thought was that nobody would probably read it because how long I had run on the way I did. I'm glad you found it worthwhile enough to read.

[@briancebu7209]

VERY WELL SAID We also must not forget the ones that died on the bridge in vechiles aon the subway accident in the tunnels that was also caused by this disaster . Rest in peace.PAL;M 90

[@bob2161]

@@briancebu7209 Hi Brian. I just want to make a clarification. The crash of Palm 90, and the Metrorail were two, independent events. It's another case of a reporter making a mistake, and the mistake becomes part of history. The train crash happened 30 or 40 minutes after the plane crash. A switch had either malfunctioned, or was mistakenly commanded into the wrong position. (Metrorail has had the records sealed. Even now, if you go to the NTSB site, you will find a record of the crash, with the date and time, and a very brief description of the event, and a note about the number of injuries and fatalities. There was a big ruckus about deciding if a metro employee had made a mistake, or if it was an equipment malfunction.) The train ended up being sent to another track. The train operator realized the problem and stopped the train. As we all know, trains don't stop real fast, so it went down the track a bit before it stopped. So now this train is stopped on a section of track where it should not be. The driver got clearance to reverse the train, to get it back where it needed to be. As the train passed back over the switch, it derailed. The train then collided with the end of the concrete barrier wall that separates two different tracks. According to the data recorder, the train was moving at 47 mph when it left the track. The wall it hit was only 18' away. What made this bad situation worse, was that all the first responders were already working the plane crash. Dispatchers initially contacted the rescue crews and told them they needed to respond to a train crash. Dispatch was told they were already on the scene. The first responder had misunderstood dispatches radio call. He heard plane crash, not train crash. (Given the noise level, it's easy to understand how that happened.) Dispatch got the confusion cleared up in about 90 seconds. A reporter, listening to the radio calls on a scanner, misunderstood what she was hearing, and thought it was all one big crash. She reported this on live TV. A few minutes later she realized the mistake and corrected herself on live TV. It was already done though. Other news networks had already reported the wrong story, unaware of the correction, and it was on the national networks in the next few minutes. Millions of people, all across the world, heard the wrong info, but never the correction. It ended up being a bad deal for the people on the train. Because of the clogged road conditions, it took rescuers a long time to get to them. It was several hours before the last of the survivors were extricated from the wreckage.

[@surferdude4487]

The delays caused by deicing may be annoying, but it's a whole lot better than being dead.

[@gooner72]

Absolutely bang on fella...... I'd rather be a bit late than brown bread.

[@countzero1136]

"Better to arrive late in this life than early in the next..."

[@C901-r8i]

Very true but sadly we all forget this when we are late. We all turn to become frustrated and angry and eager to take take off so we get to our destination.

[@itsmealex8959]

Fair point

[@Helios-Rex]

I agree. I once got delayed 3hrs (after entering the plane) for de-icing. To only have the flight reschedueled for the next morning because the de-icing fluid was freezing.

[@spitfirekid1]

I’m an old guy and a private pilot. I used to fly commercially a lot in the early 1980’s. I remember that the 727 pulled back from the gates at Denver Stapleton and got de-iced. We then waited a long time for clearance to takeoff. At some point we were told that we were cleared to taxi but had not started rolling. It was snowing heavily and the wings were blanketed with snow again. I pressed the call button and told the flight attendant that the FO should get a look at the wings before we take off. He actually came back, looked at them, said thanks and headed back. The Captain made an announcement that we were going to get de-iced again and then depart and apologized for the extra delay. It was an uneventful flight.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

An uneventful flight? I think we can all agree that uneventful is perfect!

[@daviddejesus5376]

A beautiful example of professionalism.

[@captainjimolchs]

If you see something, say something.

[@crimson25543]

I'll never forget this crash. I was flying the same day from Pittsburgh to Phoenix, going back to ASU for the start of my senior spring semester in college. The snow at Pittsburgh airport was so bad and so heavy, I said to myself, "a flight is going to crash today, I sure hope it's not the one I'm on." I know that sounds outrageous & dramatic, but that's exactly how heavy the snow was that day. I remember my US Airways plane being de-iced right before takeoff. Got back to Phoenix safely, and later heard about this plane crashing, and felt sick. I never forgot this terrible event, never forgot flight 90, and never forgot how bad that snow storm was that day 41+ years ago.

[@josephinenatsui4267]

You could have said a prayer to avert it completely.

[@Sushi2735]

This was a heartbreaking crash. The man who gave up his life to hypothermia to let others get out of the water before him. May his memory continue to be a blessing.

[@lumgs2009]

Hypothermia, you mean 😉

[@patrickflohe7427]

I vividly remember watching this rescue operation unfold on TV. That man was a true gentleman, a good man. He saved others at his own expense / peril. It was so cold.

[@donnabaardsen5372]

@@lumgs2009 That's what he said.

[@lumgs2009]

@@donnabaardsen5372 He edited it

[@tekayro]

@@lumgs2009 Ah yes, because when someone's honoring a man who gave his life for others, there must be a smart ass like you to correct him. Yes, please don't forget to put the 😉 at the end as well, for anyone who wasn't already convinced of what a prick you are.

[@dynasty0019]

Just 30 minutes after the crash, a Metro subway train derailed in DC and passengers on board were trapped for hours due to nearly all resources devoted to Flight 90. The train derailment itself would cause 3 fatalities. It was just all around a bad day for the DC/Fairfax area.

[@MentourPilot]

Sorry to hear that, I hadn’t heard about that.

[@jasoncentore1830]

A Train and a Plane at same time, I can imagine those passengers spent alot of time getting out of that Train

[@christopherrabaldo3377]

@Kenneth Johnson lol.

[@andrewtaylor940]

@@jasoncentore1830 In the middle of a crippling snowstorm. Emergency Services in DC were utterly crushed that day.

[@jeffb1886]

I remember it all well. I was driving home on I-395 S and there was a constant stream of emergency vehicles and boats on trailers headed north towards the river. :-(

[@pythomas29]

My cousin lost her life on the bridge during this accident. I was 3 months old, my Mom worked in a federal building within walking distance on the DC side, my Dad was a Dc Police officer and responded. I HATE flying out of Regan, I live closer to BWI, and hardly ever leave outta Regan. This story is close to my heart because of the way it effected my family.

[@jmk0822]

Suuuuure she did love how people like you make comments with zero proof of these things

[@Vynthos]

⁠@@jmk0822Love how people like you make replies like these with zero evidence as well. With no evidence, you can neither confirm nor deny if it is true.

[@dukecraig2402]

I'll never forget that day as long as I live, that blizzard was huge and was dropping snow as thick and hard as I've ever seen as far away as where I live in southwestern Pennsylvania, after a foot or so of it built up without any indication of it slowing I decided to go out and shovel the walks and driveway knowing full well I'd have to do it again later but I rationalized that I'd rather do 1 foot twice than 2 or 3 feet once. I came inside after doing it and at the time it hadn't let up one bit, when I was done back where I'd started 20 minutes before looked practically untouched, like I hadn't even done it, I'd just come through the door and was taking my coat and boots off when the TV station that was on broke into the special report that was covering the incident, local TV crews had made it to the site literally minutes after it'd happened, matter of fact if i recall the first unit that started transmitting from the site was a mobile TV crew that was sitting right there in traffic on there way to or from covering a story and the plane hit the bridge right in front of them, I sat there and watched everything unfold live as it was happening, the helicopter towing people to the bank, the pilot getting the skids in the water getting to people, the guy jumping off the bridge and swimming over to rescue the woman who couldn't hold onto the rope from the helicopter. Absolutely, I will never forget that as long as I live, my heart was in my throat watching each one of those people get rescued, 42 years ago and I still can picture it clear as a bell.

[@donnalayton6876]

I am sorry for your loss. You were just a baby so you never knew her. God bless you and may she RIP.

[@krugerfuchs]

The bridge is now named after Arland Williams the man who kept passing the rope to other passengers

[@ncc74656m]

That was such a genuine tragedy. He was such a good man. I guess he knew he was lost no matter what. Such a hero.

[@alienter7517]

he knew it was he’s end. It’s one of those moments where if you didn’t help someone you can’t live with it

[@patrickmonks9761]

So selfless

[@ilovecops6255]

HE WAS A REEL HERO JUST LOIKE ME.

[@ellenbryn]

Thank for sharing his name so I can look him up. This is just about the earliest news story I can remember, and the man freezing to death letting other passengers be rescued first made a huge impression on me. I was awfully young to know about something this tragic. I must've overheard my parents discussing it in the Baltimore newspaper. I didn't realize at the time just how few people had survived. The only tiny mercy is that the victims didn't have too much time to be afraid.

[@HitechProductions]

We obviously learned A LOT from this, at least one pilot certainly did. It may have kept me from a similar fate. I remember being on a flight out of O'Hare (ORD) in the late eighties in the snow. We deiced but our push back was delayed. We deiced again. Then it took too long to get to the runway so we had to return and deice again. On the take off roll the captain noticed that the "engine performance" (that's all he said in the PA announcement) was "within specs, but less than normal" so he rejected the take off. After a few run ups off the engines on a taxiway we went back to the gate. The captain had a conversation with a very agitated mechanic, who made some adjustment at the rear of the cabin with the captain monitoring his actions. The captain signals his satisfaction with the change and as you have probably guessed, we had to deice again. This time we take off and shortly after takeoff the captain gives another PA. He tells us that although we are now 3.5 hours late, it was the right call to insure everything was correct. The airport is now closed and the flight ahead of us had struggled to climb and barely cleared the buildings in its flight path. If I could only have always flown with that captain, three hours late and all. :^)

[@ajitpradhan3825]

Time and again, Captain not listening to the first officer has led to fatal disasters. Two pilots qualified to fly the aircraft does not have a cumulation of their abilities, but becomes a distinct disadvantage even with ever advancing technical improvements. In this case all the blame has been heaped on Larry, but no comments on "why first officer did not follow his own judgement when he was at the controls?" Does it mean that the combination of Capt & first officer must be retained longer (1 month may be), so that there is a cumulation of their experiences. If not then automation should trigger the technical decision.

[@stevenpugsley2542]

I wonder if this was the same snow storm I recall in the 1980's: I had to pick up my parents on a flight from Chicago - their flight was delayed TWICE, because the airplane had to deice, and then return for a second deicing because of waiting too long in the queue for takeoff. The flight was 3-4 four hours late, but arrived in PHL safely at 3 AM. The memory of the Air Florida crash made us realize that a few hour delay, although frustrating, was definitely the right decision.

[@yogib37]

@@ajitpradhan3825 What you said is right, The captain has an ego. It is better to play it safe. Better to fly another day then never again. But people do not know this that the Captain is in charge of the plane by FAR's He is responsible for that bird, But he should be open to suggestions if need by his co pilot. He should be able to call for a aborted take off if he did not feel right about it.

[@millomweb]

So many of these incidents have one thing in common. Multiple problems all at once. THREE should be the maximum and trigger an abort. In the air, that should be an emergency landing without an emergency - simply not happy with the plane's behaviour. I was once given the job of driving a 'limping' vehicle to a place for repair. I do not have an issue with this. Within 3 streets of driving it, I realised it wasn't fit for the journey and simply aborted. It'd have to go on a transporter. The clutch was worn out, for info.

[@robertfeinberg748]

@@millomweb I knew the spokeswoman for Air Florida. She was totally callous.

[@bwktlcn]

A coworker had a parent in a car on the bridge. He said his dad threw himself down in the seat when he heard the roar, looked over and saw the plane filling the passenger side window. After it hit, he and others ran to see if they could help those in cars the airplane struck, but they were killed instantly. He always told his son that if it had ripped open the fuel tanks when it hit the bridge, there would have been many more deaths on the bridge, as well killing all of those in the water. His dad had nightmares about that day for years afterwards. And he would never fly in snowy weather. His son was a baby at the time, and found out about it when his dad explained why they were never going to fly to anywhere to go skiing.

[@meltoots]

My college roommate's father died in this accident. I appreciate your reverence with crashes, especially this one seems so senseless today. The hardest part was that people survived and he had no idea for days whether his dad lived or died during that time (pre-cell phone/internet communications). We all appreciate the learning from this so it never happens again.

[@jonjahr3403]

I crossed that Bridge on vacation when I was 8. My mother told me story and about the heroic people who jumped in. 2 month's after we got home from that vacation 9/11 happened. My ex brother in law was in the Air Force stationed about 50 or 60 miles from New York City. He later said he saw the plane's on his radar screen.

[@dataai514]

I am an aerodynamic engineer working on jet engines. I have discovered your channel recently and I have been binge watching your videos every day. I learned a lot while enjoying watching them. Excellent content and high quality. Best Aviation KZbin channel. Thank you :)

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you so much for your kind words! Glad you are enjoying it!

[@maramthakaa605]

I hate when the first officers are scared and feel intimdated by the captain and dont call out the mistakes...

[@ilovecops6255]

Oh rellye. Have you ever watch STARRE TREK WITH MISTER SPOCK OR MCCOY OR SCoTTY. you eneed soem reel world experinces!

[@robertgary3561]

Not sure if fear is the case. But the first officer, even then, had the authority to abort the take off before V1.

[@robertgary3561]

@N. Warner I’ve never experienced cowboy culture in my flying career. I heard about it back in the day. And even pilots drinking before flying. Never have seen evidence of it today though. Our FAA certs are too valuable to risk.

[@chocksoff]

Will u be always the captain that will accept everything the first officer say?

[@richodude2679]

@@chocksoff your question doesn’t make sense , please try to reword it

[@jamienorton9172]

My father was working for the fire department then. He went on this call, driving the Dive Team's SCUBA gear to the scene. He said so many other things went wrong and so many miracles happened all at the same time. Major issue was many outside needed resources was unable to get to the scene due to severe congestion. Did you know that here was also a derailed passenger subway train in DC at the same time? Both incidents quickly absorbed all reginal resources. My father has the actual dispatch communication recordings of these incidents. Incredible to listen to and to imagine situation.

[@michaelallen1396]

I watched it all live on TV, I never forgot the drama of that day.

[@drkatel]

Wow, I did not know (or else forgot) about the subway derailment. What a horrific day.

[@katmandudawn8417]

Yes there was a subway accident that day too. I think 3 people died in that. Then there was the total gridlock DC was suffering after the government let out early. It was a mess.

[@redmastif01]

Crazy how fast that happens in real time. Watching a 45 minute video you forget that a few seconds is incredibly fast in that cockpit

[@ew3612]

Yeah, I couldnt believe how quick that whole incident was.

[@greenluxi]

I appreciated the simulation at the end to show just how quickly it happened, the context adds empathy.

[@ceres4828]

it was heartbreakingly fast, they barely made it off the ground

[@lewis211]

So sad that the first officer was skeptical the whole time to only find out he was right so horrifically. I bet he couldn't even comprehend it was actually happening in those final few moments.

[@devong7124]

I've learned: if you have a strong gut feeling, act on it! Don't care who gets mad, what anyone says, call me crazy, but I'm an ALIVE crazy. Don't ignore signs, especially when God warns you. Experience, went against my feelings twice and both times ended in an accident, not my fault. I listen now. My sister got so mad at me. I had planned to go with her and friends to get her husband at Fort Brag. I told her, i can't go. If I go will be bad accident. She left very mad. ( I really wanted to go). When they got back home, she called and said, glade you didn't go! We were almost in a head on collision coming over a hill. If you had been with us, it would have been worse. I believe you now.

[@polarvortex3294]

There were engineers who were very familiar with critical components of the space shuttle who were deeply concerned that the shuttle Challenger would blow up on lift-off as a result of the cold temperatures that were predicted to exist at the planned lift-off time. Indeed, when the time came, there were many large icicles hanging from the launch equipment surrounding the spacecraft. But these men could not sway the hierarchy of management above them to wait for warmer weather, in part because these leaders were sick of the delays and hiccups that had already pushed Challenger's launch-time back several times. There was a pressure to get going no matter what. This was a few years after the Air Florida crash, but it seems that the lessons of that disastrous flight had not been absorbed or heeded by NASA, and that human nature had also not changed at all. Looks like till the end of time there will be people who find out they were right "horrifically," as you say. Some will feel the impact first hand; others will sadly watch as the scene unfolds; and none of them will ever be the same again.

[@rfcdgaf]

@@polarvortex3294 The space shuttle program set space exploration back 30 years. Underdelivered on almost all of it's objectives, by a huge margin. If it wasn't for the shuttle program we'd already be on mars by now

[@L.Fontein7]

@@devong7124 Yes. I've learned over the years as well - ALWAYS listen to your gut. This from times I both listened to it as well as from times I didn't. Godspeed.

[@Julia-nl3gq]

@@devong7124 This is so true. I am completely sure that listening to my gut has saved my life, a couple times. And you know the interesting thing is that people often think that your gut feeling is some random, not-logical thing, but, actually, it's totally logical....to explain it better: I once read a book that said that what happens with a gut feeling is that your brain has, behind the scenes, on a level you are not conscience of, assessted the situation, and handed you the answer.... ....and, that, just because you are not conscience of the behind-the-sceen assesment that the brain did, does not mean it doesn't exist. What the book said is that, in situation where you have to act rather quickly, the brain actually understands that you don't have time to stand there, conscientously thinking 'hmm, there's this and that, but what about this, and hmmm, here's this other thing I should factor in' etc etc etc, so the brain quickly assess the situation, and then hands you the answer. The book said that basically you have the world's biggest, most amazing, most complex super-computer, working behind the scenes for you, and then simply handling you an asnwer - now, who would want to ignore that???

[@lowlyworm9323]

The actual recording where he says “we’re going down, Larry” and he yells back “I KNOW!” is... haunting. It made my stomach drop. Maybe it’s the loss of composure (because pilots are almost always unreasonably chill in most recordings/communications) but it was so... human... desperate, irate, and terrified...

[@wraith8323]

Feel exactly the same way, combine that with all the apprehension as they are rolling "that's not right", and it like he knew the whole time that they were likely doomed yet he felt like he didnt have authority to do anything

[@maxwellwellmax878]

@@wraith8323 thats the problem with alot of companies, they claim Safety is number one, but God forbid you dare cost them money.

[@darkprose]

@@maxwellwellmax878 Though that obviously happens, the safety record for commercial air travel speaks for itself. The airline industry overall _does_ make safety a top priority and are wildly successful _because_ of that safety.

[@jesuszamora6949]

@@darkprose I was about to say... People forget that if airplanes were crashing all the time, people would be frightened to get on the planes, and there'd be no money in air travel.

[@katiewennerberg210]

Agreed. So clearly the words of men who know they are moments from their deaths, and causing deaths of others. So so sad. I really feel for the First Officer. I have a feeling had he been in charge this flight would not have ended so tragically. His voice said it all. I’m glad though there isn’t a recording from the cabin of the passengers, as it is hearing the pilots was hard enough 😔

[@jbaccanalia]

I was there. My hotel room looked straight at the bridge 7 floors up. I didn't see it happen. The whole week I was there the tail stuck out of the ice. Extremely well done video, I now have real understanding of what happened. Arland D. Williams was a true hero.

[@jman1749]

Did you see the rescue occurring?

[@jbaccanalia]

@@jman1749 no I didn't see it. The rescue was actually a very short period of time. By the time I got back to my room it was dark and had been over for a while. Just people in the cold that came to grieve the disaster and some response vehicles.

[@maiskitty]

Years ago, departing from Ottawa, Canada, I pointed out crystallised snow on the wings before takeoff to a flight attendant. She relayed this to the flight crew, and then came back and told me the captain was aware, and deemed it fine, but because I'd expressed doubt, they now had to go to de-icing before takeoff. At the time, I felt bad that I had caused what was probably an unnecessary delay and was now the flight and cabin crews least favourite passenger.... After watching this, maybe it was a good thing I'd pointed this out.... Who knows. Always better late than dead though....

[@ethanf5441]

You copied another comment

[@maiskitty]

@@ethanf5441 🤷🏻‍♀️ no idea what that means. I guess someone else had a similar experience?

[@maiskitty]

Oooh I just saw the other one. Weird. Well, I guess it happens more often than I realized, because this really did happen and it would be super weird for me to copy someone else's story!

[@aps-pictures9335]

As cabin crew - 100% I’m not going anywhere with any ice on the wing. I’m not dying for a delay. Always tell. I’ll offload myself before I allow that plane in the sky.

[@dilligaf1009]

He wasn't chill with it. They knew they fucked up and then got called out on it. My kids do that as well

[@555Trout]

It's not the last mistake that kills you, it's the 5 mistakes before.

[@BlueberryWizard]

@Stellvia Hoenheim and landed in the Hudson

[@davidpowell3347]

"don't corner yourself"

[@Muck006]

An important part of the problem is the mistake of the de-icing crew, which should have taken the TEMPERATURE and POSSIBLE DELAYS into account ... and chosen a "tougher mixture" that would hold for a longer time/de-ice a bit better ... due to the delays and busy schedule making predictions rather dodgy. "Regulations" are fine if there is no traffic jam in the skies above you and the plane can leave "on schedule" ... but under these circumstances a SAFETY MARGIN should have been added.

[@XouZ88]

@@BlueberryWizard During the Hudson ditching, no mistakes were made... It was only the birds who made mistakes, but they died

[@tealeaflist]

Hear, Here!

[@patriciapringle2837]

This video was excellent detailing why Air Florida Flight 90 crashed into the 14th Street Bridge and the tragic errors that these pilots made. My brother was in his vehicle on his way home from work from Arlington Cemetery where he worked as a mechanic. Sadly he did not survive. He was one of the four in their vehicles that died at the scene. I remember this day so vividly and this happened 40 years ago. We live in South Carolina, but watched scenes all day on television of this tragedy not knowing that my brother was one of the victims until later that night. It was devastating to our family and friends. He was only 27 years old. My heart goes out to all those who lost loved ones on this horrific day 40 years ago on January 13, 1982 due to the negligence of the pilot and de-icing crew.

[@mrkipling2201]

Sorry for your loss, my condolences. RIP to him.

[@droberts8703]

I'm not sure but I think the piolet needed to get them to do deicing again

[@matthewterry5540]

My dad could have been on the bridge as well but he decided to stay late at the Pentagon to let traffic ease up. One of his coworkers who left on time was also a victim on the bridge.

[@edifyguy]

I don't think it was the deicing crew's fault. It had simply been too long. On top of that, had the captain used the onboard deicers like he should have, it wouldn't have been a big deal. Had the captain listened to the First Officer who was telling him all along that something was not right, he would have rejected the takeoff before they got to 50 knots. This is on the captain. Unfortunately, it's a rare instance where military training backfires. Though this is not generally the case, his rank made him arrogant and deaf to his subordinate's legitimate and serious concerns, and got them both killed. Sad all the way around.

[@jamessicard6682]

Did you guys receive any coin for your troubles? Evidently air Florida went bankrupt.

[@wishdeus]

I just feel so bad for the co pilot. He knew this wasn't right and you can hear it in the last transmission that the captain regrets all of it.

[@stever7157]

Sadly the captain was arrogant, and the first officer wasn’t assertive enough to stop the flight before it was too late.

[@wcate8301]

@Stellvia Hoenheim, it doesn't work that way. Once a pilot is hired, date of hire and seniority determine that pilot's options. Their bidding options improve as their seniority advances. In the case of these pilots their seniority arose from the merger of Air Sunshine and Air Florida. Air Sunshine was the older airline and flew antiquated piston engine planes, while Air Florida was a young fast growing jet airline. Many of the Air Sunshine pilots had earlier hire dates than the senior Air Florida pilots, so shot to the top of the seniority list, and could bid Captain seat in a 737 without going through the First Officer experience. Capt Wheaton was one of these. Under normal circumstances seniority is a good system, but in a case like this it can become distorted.

[@lisahinton9682]

@@wcate8301 Wow! I had never before heard this fact about the more senior captains of Air Sunshine not going through the long first officer experience, and because of having older hire dates, being able to be at the front of the line of seniority ahead of the captains of Air Florida, thus obviously not being as experienced of a captain, in spite of the rank and title. Absolutely mind-boggling, and I am surprised this was not included in this video. (It does seem to have been a factor in the terrible outcome of this flight; as you said Captain Larry Wheaton was one of these.)

[@donaldorwa8017]

If i was the co pilot i would have been against the captian and reject the take off

[@828enigma6]

Is that doable? Can the copilot reject a landing without the pilot's assistance?

[@patrickflohe7427]

I vividly remember watching this rescue operation unfold on TV. So many years ago, and I can still see it play out in my head. The heroic gentleman in that cold water, who kept giving the lifeline to someone else, each time the helicopter returned. It broke my heart that he eventually succumbed. He let others live, at the expense of his own life.

[@kennethlee4894]

Yes, I saw it on TV too.

[@CyberSystemOverload]

I love how they do winter ops in places like Helsinki (HEL). I once flew (as a pax) HEL-MAN during winter. It was actually my first time as a pax experiencing heavy snow and ice while on an airplane (it was E190, Finnair). I had a window seat. I could see the wings were absolutely covered in layers of thick snow. We pushed back with all the ice and snow still on the wings and began the long taxi to the runway. I was staring at the wings all this time. We joined the line for takeoff. Our plane went forward and Im still staring at these wings. And then the plane stopped in this holding area just before the runway. Like a Formula 1 pit stop team the deice trucks surrounded us, lights flashing. They blasted the plane clean until nothing remained. No wasting time. The flaps came down, we lined up and blasted into the night sky. Brilliant operation that eliminates this need for taxying back to the terminal. It remains my only experience of airline winter ops. This tragic accident made me think of my experience and how a setup like that would have saved this jet. Great work as always in your content Captain.

[@DAOzz83]

We desperately need this procedure at O’Hare.

[@noblezarkon]

Yeah seeing the guys at Helsinki is something else - they have it down to a tee!

[@YVRCasting]

Yes this is the best solution

[@endokrin7897]

Amazing how so few other airports do it this way! So inefficient in the US. 🫣

[@RSProduxx]

@@endokrin7897 money... Scandinavians are known to put that way further down on the priority lists than many others...

[@XIIchiron78]

The simulations always put into perspective just how little time there is in these situations

[@Amphitera]

yes, most accidents happen within a few seconds. Very little time to react or do anything. However, they should have stopped and returned when the instruments gave strange readings.

[@David-ud9ju]

Except all the time they had while stationary waiting to take off when they fucked it.

[@joshuabrooks9360]

Although i understand your point, this accident was caused over a couple hours of piss poor pilotage. 😢

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Usually there's a series of flaws leading up to catastrophic failure, and then a threshold... Once things "go bad" they've stopped giving hints or red flags, and they don't take their time to show you just how bad they can get. ;o)

[@downtime86stars17]

I remember this crash, and especially the man who survived and was hanging onto the ice in the freezing river, but repeatedly passed the rescue ring from the chopper to several of his fellow passengers, but went under before he could be saved.

[@xpollland]

He was trapped in his seat, he knew that he probably wouldn't be able to get out so he selflessly gave it to the others. Makes it even sadder in my opinion.

[@TheGodParticle]

I remember it vividly, especially when the helicopter was pulling them and this woman was bashing against these huge slabs of ice. I was thinking at the time her ribs must be shattered. Really scared me as a kid.

[@chipredacted]

@@xpollland Although, I think if I knew I was going to die, I'd probably feel better knowing I saved a few people. Hopefully he did as well.

[@K2rider46]

The simulation at the end really drives home just how fast everything happened! RIP passengers and crew of Air Florida Flight 90. 😢

[@jimleon7894]

My mother, on the way home from her job with Eastern Air Lines, crossed the 14th Street Bridge minutes before it was hit by flight 90. She was very lucky.

[@fridaycaliforniaa236]

RIP Arland Williams. This planet deserves more people like you.

[@uppityglivestockian]

I watched the wall the wall news coverage in our living room in AZ. Arland Williams and Lenny Skutnik are two names from that tragedy I have never forgotten.

[@greatflyer_aviation]

Oh boy how much Winter Ops have changed since then! This explains the never ending training, presentations and exams we get to go through every year. Thanks for the informative video.

[@ilovecops6255]

no twineter ops. it is SPESICL OPS fromt eh militery SPECIAL OPS, NOT SPECIAL K, ITS A BEAKFAST CEREAL NOT SPOECAL OPS!

[@Enucentro]

@@ilovecops6255 shut up please

[@Stettafire]

@@ilovecops6255 Autocorrect is your friend

[@ilovecops6255]

@@Stettafire The angle for rentry of space vehicles is as accurat eas autopilot. Its no mysters howe to reenyter. Stettafire Highlighted reply Stettafire 6 hours ago @i love cops Autocorrect is your friend

[@Stettafire]

@@ilovecops6255Oh a bot, how lovely /s

[@LVLouisCyphre]

You should be a NTSB or their counterpart in your jurisdiction investigator when you hang up your wings and can't or don't wish to captain a commercial airliner anymore. I don't see that happening for a very long time. You're right up there with Sully. You explain what happened that us layman can understand and process the data and facts of an accident or event. This type of commentary and reporting also helps to bring closure to what happened to the families and friends of the deceased who were victims of these accidents. You're doing the world a great service with this commentary so people understand aviation and how the safety is constantly being improved.

[@valpal2424]

I recently had a flight delayed 2 hours because of the luggage car stuck in the snow, and then de-icing the plane... Was annoyed at the time, but this is now eye-opening. Sending my gratitude to the de-icing crew that I got home safely after all

[@andrewtaylor940]

This one was haunting. I still remember being home from school that day, I was either sick or had a snow day. There was a local news van out driving to cover the snowstorm, which was sitting in traffic waiting to cross the bridge when the plane hit. So within 5 minutes of the plane hitting the river there was live tv coverage of the event and the rather gripping helicopter rescue. Highly unusual at the time.

[@MentourPilot]

I didn’t know that. Interesting!

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

@@MentourPilot Yep. I remember coming home from school and watching the newscast. It was a breaking story with all the human drama and it went national because of the immediacy. I remember when the CVR tape was released and folks could hear the decision to not use de-icing. I'm from a snowy state and man, did this shock people. I can remember hearing an adult say that that was the one button they knew they should push on a plane in that situation. This crash got a lot of discussion.

[@timothycalderwood5695]

This was a sad review of that fateful day. I live in the Maryland suburbs of DC and I remember the almost immediate TV coverage. Also, there was a deadly Metro subway crash the same day to compound the sorrow we experienced. :(

[@XM-qk5sh]

We got out of school early because of the snow.

[@elendil504]

I watched the whole thing live in my home in the MD suburbs.

[@edwinsmith9779]

I remember the day of this accident vividly. I was 11 years old in Alexandria, VA, and they closed school that day. The snow was the nice packy kind perfect for snow forts and snowball fights, which of course is what we did all day. Late in the day we came in and had hot chocolate. Later still I found out our neighbor across the street had lost her husband in the crash, and his secretary was also involved in the metro derailment that happened the same day, adding to the horror and confusion for our neighbor. As the news unfolded in the days and weeks after the accident, the biggest story was a bystander who helped rescue several people, but from what I remember the only real reporting was about the insufficient de-icing and long delays getting out, not about the engine thrust problems. (but I was 11, so take that with a grain of salt). Since a young age I've been interested in aviation, and I earned my private & instrument ratings in 2006. I really enjoy your videos, especially the accident analysis. Thank you!

[@jakelamb4096]

It was my first day on the job at a video store in DC. As the events unfolded I watched in real time the 5 30” big screen TVs. Folks forget, but at the same time a subway train with no functioning brakes, crashed full speed at its last stop with deadly results. The entire city was shut down and in a state of shock. This all happened just after DC let folks leave early due to the raging blizzard. The only thing that helped the sorrow of that day was watching the incredible courage of individuals risking and giving their lives for others. It gave light to darkness. Thought you’d like to hear this. You have a brilliant show. Thanks for the truth.

[@raymondfoster4980]

I was there. Flying Eastern 1491. We had held for 2+40 trying to get in. We had fuel left for one approach. Palm 90 was cleared for takeoff when we were at 800 ft on the ILS. I remarked "this is going to be close" and considered we might get an ATC directed go around. The NTSB timeline showed that we touched down 6 seconds before Palm 90 left the runway. NTSB subpoenaed our statements regarding conditions at DCA.

[@eugeniustheodidactus8890]

Kinda chilling to be the guy immediately following a crash. I was right behind an SAS DC-10 when it skidded off 4R at JFK at @4am on a snowy February night that same year. Neither the tower or me knew that the DC10 had crashed until after I taxied in.

[@bsmith1164]

hi Raymond, that was a crazy close call for your flight and I hope it never would happen now. I was an ATC trainee when this happened and we studied what happened a year or so later. I'm guessing weather was close to Cat 1 limits and to run jets that tight on a slippery runway is just asking for trouble. This video was an excellent analysis.

[@cassidydude]

Wow, so you’d have touched down likely before Palm 90 hit V1. So if they’d rejected the takeoff, would you have stopped in time or run into the back of them? Sounds like ATC should have held them until you got in.

[@raymondfoster4980]

@@cassidydude Vis was 1/2 mile, heavy snow. I doubt we could have seen Palm 90 in time to avoid a collision. One of the things we joked about regarding DCA was that if the vis/ceiling dropped below non-precision minimums for runway 19, there would never be more than a 10 knot tailwind for runway 1 which is the limit for any jet. Translation: I doubt the vis was really 1/2 mile!

[@byrnc927]

Did anything become of it? At the time the FAA was so busy firing controllers and staffing towers with whatever warm bodies they could find. This whole ATC incident was effectively covered up.

[@wcate8301]

Nice job on this video! There's one aspect of this accident that the NTSB apparently missed that those of us who had encountered Capt Wheaton in his earlier days were well aware of; he could be a cocky, arrogant bastard. I flew with him once when he instructed briefly at the Navy Flying Club, and it was the most abusive flying lesson I ever survived. He went on to fly most of the 1970s with Air Sunshine, a Florida Keys based DC3 and CV240 operator which eventually merged into Air Florida. Air Sunshine flew big radials designed for 115/145 octane gas on the only available avgas, 100 Low Lead, in a hot climate, which made Manifold Pressure the single power parameter, with detonation and catastrophic failure lurking one inch beyond the MAP limit. Hot temps and elevated density altitudes combined with fuel-imposed reduced MAP limits and heavy pax loads made takeoffs a little dicey most of the time. So under stress it's easy to visualize him clinging to the calculated EPR as an inviolable limit. His FO didn't challenge him aggressively about the anamolous engine indications, as he'd likely already been browbeaten into submission on this trip sequence. As an F15 Eagle alumnus, he certainly knew that when TSHTF you cook the engines if you have to and live to fly another day. I suspect he'd been reduced to passive mode by Larry's overbearing demeanor. An over temp on a JT8 is not as drastic as detonation induced catastrophic failure of an R1830 or an R2800. He could have pushed the thrust levers up til the N1s and EGTs looked right and saved the day. Why didn't he? THE CAPTAIN IS GOD! A suggestion for a future episode: the crash of an Air New England Twin Otter at Hyannis, MA in 1979. That and this accident and a couple others started the process of instituting Cockpit Resource Management into aviation in the US. (Behind Europe, as usual.) I think that string of accidents would make a good series for this channel. Keep up the good work!

[@interfrastically]

I have read a number of books that covered this accident and your comment is the first time I've seen an attempt to answer the question I've always had about the crash - why they didn't just firewall it when they were obviously in trouble? Being heavily conditioned to not dare exceed the MAP during his long stint on pistons sounds like a pretty good explanation of why the captain fixated on the EPR that he had calculated for the power setting. Being a domineering captain is, sadly, a perfect explanation as to why the first officer didn't take matters into his own hands. There have been plenty of accidents where that has been a major contributing factor. Thank you for posting this. Most illuminating. On a related note although I'm just a private pilot (glider and single engine, simple day VFR for all of my twenty some years of flying) in my experience the more cocky and arrogant a pilot is, the worse that person has been as a pilot. The best I have known have also been the most humble, laid back and self deprecating.

[@wcate8301]

@@interfrastically "A superior pilot is one who uses her superior judgement to avoid needing to exercise her superior skills." Testosterone and ego are the enemies of flight safety. You sound like you've got your head screwed on straight. Ever think of going for an instrument rating? Not necessarily to fly in the clouds for real, but to sharpen your precision flying skills and expand your capabilities. I've flown many a BFR with longtime VFR pilots who haven't practiced sharpening their skills in years and are so sloppy as to be borderline dangerous. I would make a point in their logbook endorsement that they needed to go out and practice certain maneuvers until they could do them at least up to Private Pilot checkride standards. Have fun, and keep the pointy end forward and the oily side down!

[@interfrastically]

@@wcate8301 I've been flying gliders almost exclusively for the last few years and I fly in the mountains. My club also mandates annual checkflights (essentially the same as the license check flight) which are fairly rigorous including a "permature termination of tow" exercise which involves releasing from the towplane at 300 AGL and returning to the airport. The annual check also includes written and verbal tests and being an instructor I get to go through a few more things every year too. This keeps the pilots in the club on their toes. In the near future I think I'm going to have the time and money to get back into power again and to do it enough to stay current and safe and I'm hoping to go through the IFR rating too. I fly just locally for fun though so I don't know if I'll really use it but as you point out it would be great for learning and increasing my standards of precision. A few years ago I had a chance to fly with someone who gave me several lessons when I was a new student twenty years ago. He's a superb pilot in every sense. I try to be a smooth and precise pilot and often get compliments on that when I'm being checked out or flying with students. Flying with this guy again showed me just how much higher I should aim. Sort of like the experience an amateur violin player of moderate proficiency would have if given a one on one lesson by Yehudi Menuhin I imagine!

[@Bluecrimson217]

This comment desperately needs to be pinned as it is the final piece to the puzzle.

[@mcnultyssobercompanion6372]

@@wcate8301 I was going to respond anyway to say how much I appreciate your well-informed comment here, and then my eyebrows raised real high when I saw you mention a crash in Hyannis. I grew up on the Cape, in Hyannis, right down the street from that airport (it's located on a rotary we literally call "The Airport Rotary".) I've passed it more times than I could ever possibly count. But I've never heard of that incident. When I'm done typing this, I shall surely google it, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. Since I left the Cape it's been a long while, but it remains close to my heart, and I always enjoy reading aspects of its history. I know very little about aviation myself, I'm fascinated by it from afar, which is why I subscribe to this channel as well as Kelsey's "74 Gear" and others. Thanks again for the expert insight you provided here.

[@notsosmall2830]

We covered this accident in my new entrant cabin crew training (as I expect everyone does learning about winter ops), and the clip of the rescue, with the poor woman blinded by jet fuel and panicking, was probably the most traumatic video of all the ones we saw in those few weeks. I didn't know the full story from the pilot angle besides the fact they were de-iced too far before their actual take-off. I had to pause this video before the end because I really couldn't bear to listen to the voice recordings. So grateful to work alongside such professional, safety-conscious pilots with a CRM environment where this is almost unimaginable.

[@David-nx2vm]

A few years ago, I flew out of Minneapolis-St Paul during a snow storm. The airport had the de-icing equipment right before the hammerhead on both sides of the taxiway and every departing aircraft went through it like a car wash, right before departure. It seemed very efficient.

[@danielschein6845]

There were some really spectacular bystander heroics in this accident. One of them jumped into the river and swam around the ice to save a passenger. Incredible video.

[@keithmichels]

"stalling, we're falling.' "Larry, we're going down Larry" "I KNOW" As someone who wants to be a pilot... That was jarring to listen to. Truly amazing work on this production!

[@inspiringengineer]

Difficult.....

[@thehighllama8101]

I was 8 years old in 1982. This is the earliest aircraft accident that I can remember. It was all over the news. My parents had a magazine, with an illustration of the aircraft flying low in the snow, over an iced river. It horrified me, the idea of plummeting into the ice.

[@seeingeyegod]

I was too young to be aware of it when it happened but I remember watching the TV movie about it which was pretty chilling (no pun intended... well maybe)

[@ruthmeow4262]

I was a few years older, it was the first air crash I can remember watching on TV, it always stuck with me, watching them trying to rescue the survivors out of the river.

[@neshobanakni]

My father was on the same plane, with the same crew, on their previous flight. I had just joined the army and ridden in an airplane for the first time a few days before. It had quite an emotional impact on me.

[@travcollier]

That hot air coming out of an engine has a huge amount of water vapor in it... It is not *dry* air.

[@Luubelaar]

Exactly. That's not air, it's steam. And plane wings are metal out in below-freezing temps. They're very cold. And what happens to steam when it hits something cold? Condensation. And when that freshly condensed water sits on the cold metal for a bit? Yeah, not good. One thing about aviation today that I really like is how determined the industry is to make it safer. Learning from mistakes and making improvements.

[@RSProduxx]

@@Luubelaar if they didn´t people would stop flying...

[@robertdamico1]

Larry Skusnick was the hero who dived into the icy water to save the women who could not hold on to the life-saving tube and therefore saved her life. God bless him!

[@bossHogOG]

All those first responders just watching her drown and a civilian is the one that steps up and saves her life.

[@XM-qk5sh]

If you haven't seen the footage of the helicopter crew from the Park Police during this rescue, their efforts were fantastic also. One male passenger can be seen handing the life ring to other passengers during the rescue, unfortunately he drowned.

[@grmpEqweer]

@@XM-qk5sh You lose body heat so fast in water that cold.

[@Ryanboy2020]

I have seen many recreations and presentations of this accident, but none of those compare to the quality of what I just watched. Thanks Peter for doing this one and keep them coming! 🛫 Blue skies my friend!

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you for those kind words. We do our best to try and produce quality content. Glad it shows.

[@Ryanboy2020]

@@MentourPilot It is definitely high quality and well presented! Great job.

[@richardberman8527]

My father was on the very next plane that was scheduled to land at national airport when flight 90 hit the bridge. They aborted the landing and diverted to Baltimore at the last minute. There was a massive snowstorm blanket in the entire area, and my dad ended up renting a car to get home, which took him more than 12 hours. There is no way that airport should’ve been open that day.

[@lbowsk]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the airport being open. How many flights successfully took off and landed before this occurred? Do you want to shut down air travel because these dudes screwed up? That's crazy logic. There have probably been hundreds of thousands of takeoffs and landings in snow storms since this day. Follow the procedures. Turn the AI ON. Get Deiced. Go fly.

[@PacAnimal]

15:40 Also, aircraft exhaust contains A LOT of water. In fact, when you burn aviation fuel, you end up with a bigger volume of H2O than you had fuel to begin with. This is partially why they often leave such huge trails of vapour in the sky. You don't want all that wet air in your face in winter.

[@marhawkman303]

yah, this is what I was thinking... it's STEAM being blown at you! Sure it's warm, but it's still STEAM!

[@stefanschmidt3091]

I was sceptical at first but Kerosenes chemical Formular is C12H26−C15H32 which means under perfect circumstances burging it woud produce 2.15 times more H2O than CO2

[@Luubelaar]

@@marhawkman303 - and what happens when steam hits a cold surface? Condensation. What happens when condensation sits on a very cold surface for a while? It freezes.

[@marhawkman303]

@@Luubelaar Exactly! steam doesn't STAY warm in cold air.

[@Luubelaar]

@@marhawkman303 - especially air THAT cold.

[@jeanettebujold4368]

I am a Flight Attendant based in Miami. Whenever I fly there I think of this accident. So sad. RIP to all Paxs and crew. Great job you did. Very well done.

[@dominicMcAfee]

Thank you for all you do for us passengers. I'm sure you don't hear it often enough.

[@jeanettebujold4368]

It's a pleasure to do whatever we can to help the paxs. For me it's not a job its a passion. Thank you

[@robertfeinberg748]

@vibratingstring It was Air Florida.

[@pocketdynamo5787]

I really like the scientific approach to this. The fact that the First Officer even says something like: "I think this is giving us a false sense of security", is really astonishing. That is something that people are so likely to ignore. So often you see that people choose to believe in speculative ideas simply because they want them to be true. It is so easy and so tempting to fully commit to an idea you're having. You see that even in science. The same approach you need in science you seem to need as a pilot. Fascinating!

[@eirinym]

It absolutely blows my mind that in those weather conditions, even ignoring the rest of it, the captain said specifically not to use engine anti-ice. It's an absolutely crazy decision. Short of actually wanting this all to happen, I can't fathom it.

[@69skobie43]

I know. The Captain got a lot of calls wrong on the day, but for me, this one is the most confusing. With the detail here about how much discussion they had on the conditions, why did he go with engine de-ice off & especially when the Co-Pilot questioned that off answer from the Captain when going through the pre-flight checklist, why did he double down on the off command? Then with all the efforts to catch the exhaust of the plane in front of them in the queue & the concerns over the ECR reading from the engines, if ever there was a situation when engine de-ice on was an obvious checklist item this was it.

[@suburbia2050]

@@69skobie43 My assumption when watching was by that point he was basically impatient with the situation and obsessed with taking off and getting out of there, any suggestion of slight delay was powered through with a type of aloof arrogance. I am assuming the de-icing engine option would take time to warm up and reach its working condition while they had the queue of planes waiting to land and take off.

[@ChaosCat79]

@@69skobie43 I know this comment was from almost a year ago, but I thought I'd add my 2 pennies worth to this comment. The Captain and Co-pilot of this plane had virtually *no* experience flying in snowy conditions - especially so in a snow storm of the severity which afflicted the Washington D.C area that day. That, coupled with the time pressure they started to feel as their already delayed flight looked like it could be delayed further, likely contributed to the Captain's seeming inexplicable call out on the take off check list for the engine de-ice as "Off". Combined with the foolish attempt to use the jet exhaust from a plane in front of them to melt the snow that had accumulated on the plane after it's last de-icing treatment, these factors eventually lead to the crash.

[@wcate8301]

​@@69skobie43, the old piston pounder planes Larry used to fly had a significant power penalty with the use of engine anti-ice. He was used to flying old tired planes at heavy weights and high temperatures, where every horsepower counts, and you couldn't afford the power loss of engine anti-ice. And, of course icing isn't much of an issue in Key West. I think this was old habits surfacing at the wrong time.

[@ryankenyon5010]

I remember when this happened. My mom was listening to the radio and they broke into programming with the news report. My dad was there on business at the time and flew out the next day while they were still pulling bodies out. He said he had never experienced a takeoff in which everyone in the cabin was SILENT.

[@ianoverseas]

I've seen this aircraft accident played out multiple times over 20 years through various channels. Didn't think I'd get much more information but was pleasantly surprised with a forensic and analytic breakdown by an experienced pilot. Worth watching!

[@barrysmith4588]

never let pressure push the boundaries of safety.... your life is worth more than than pressure to make someone richer than they already are....

[@57thorns]

They should show this video on any flight where passengers complains abut delays because of bad weather, preferably while waiting for deicing.

[@JerryOrbachFan]

I just Googled Arland Dean Williams, Jr.. He was afraid of water yet gave his life so others could live. He was a truly amazing man and the very definition of a hero. May he and the other souls who perished rest in peace.

[@davidmunro3910]

I've been a de ice tech at YOW in Ottawa Canada. We know winter. Our Brix settings. Fluid strength are set at start of shift and not changed. It would take a radical temp shift to justify. We also require a bare hand tactile inspection of leading edges. And if there is active precip, a green type 4 anti icing fluid is applied after deicing. This shears off at takeoff speeds.

[@Julia-nl3gq]

I find this good to know, as I live in Saskatchewan, Canada, and, as you know, our winters here are pretty brutal, and colder than over in Ontario. I have seen it get to -52 C with the windchill. Not a normal temp for us, but it happens. I guess the norm is something like -25/30 C, and -40 C is fairly common. Anyway, I have often wished I could see a documentary about the Saskatoon airport, and how they handle all the de-icing. I'm very curious about it, since our winters are some of the longest and coldest on the planet. But, you know, Saskatoon is not a exactly a popular destination, so I'm sure there's never going to be a video on our airport. But, watching this video, I admit, made me a bit edgy, and got me wondering about how de-icing is handled, nowadays, in Canada. If YXE is anything like YOW - and I assume it is - then sounds like I don't have anything to be edgey about, so thanks for your comment.

[@jfbaze2001]

I was there when this happened, it was one of the worst snow storms for the city. This was also a very wet snow. I was one of the people that had emergency experience and a well equipped 4x4. It was horrific being on the shore. One of my tasks was driving nurses and doctors to the hospitals, very few people had vehicles that could move around. When this crash happened visibility was less than 1000 ft.

[@Mach7RadioIntercepts]

I was a teenager living in the region when that accident happened. Walked the other bridge the day they pulled the empennage out of the water. I'll never forget seeing the stacked coffins and big hole in the ice.

[@AutoReport1]

I haven't heard of all these incidents, but this is one I remember from when it happened. One thing you need to remember about icing is that not only does it disrupt lift but in the worst cases it can add tons of weight in bad places.

[@saazbhatia7594]

Damn! The quality of the content is so damn good. This over netflix, anytime. Amazing job!

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you!

[@UnitedKingdomGovernment]

I agree, this is way more detailed then shows like air crash investigations

[@erickamcc1701]

@@UnitedKingdomGovernment more detailed, but shorter because there is no unnecessary repetition of the same information over and over. I appreciate how he gets to the point but leaves nothing out.

[@UnitedKingdomGovernment]

@@erickamcc1701 exactly. Air crash investigation repeats the exact same “dramatic recreations” over and over. And the opening recreation of events doesn’t tell you which parts become important later.

[@Farlig1]

I don’t like it. It’s way too much editing... I understand that the editing guy needs to show off, but sometimes less = more. I focus more on the visual effects than what he’s saying.

[@ivanpennell7664]

What has always baffled me about this crash is that they never selected full power. Maybe it is a British thing because many of our Airfields are much smaller, but if everything is turning to worms around you and the stick shaker is doing its thing then surely your first reaction after lowering the nose is bend the throttles against the stop. I know I would have done so. My experience is Military and full power against the brakes was the only choice before rolling. If something doesn't look right then it probably isn't. It is a very true saying that almost every regulation is written in someone else's blood. Great video.

[@jeremystark3350]

I remember this crash vividly as a 10 year old kid in 1980s, I was due to fly from Jacksonville, Fl. to Miami,Fl. on this exact airline & was terrified because of this crash & all the tv coverage of the crash & rescue efforts. I always thought because the pilot & plane were from Florida, maybe he didnt know how to fly in Snow (10 year old brain thinking). Turns out this was actually not too far from the truth with him only having a couple flights in these conditions. Thanks for the video.

[@TIMMEH19991]

It seems from the recordings that the Captain was a bit of a know it all who wouldn't listen to others. Very foolish and cost his life and many others.....

[@The2wanderers]

This one was harder to hear about than most of these that you've done, because it seems like there were so many red flags that didn't deter these pilots.

[@ncc74656m]

The Get-There-Itis will get you every time.

[@tonyradle8747]

Yeah, this one really really bugged me. I just can't fathem why they ignored everything and all the signs. Really sad

[@matthewwilson5019]

@@tonyradle8747 seems like it was mostly the pilot and not nesserly the co pilot

[@kevinbarry71]

This was a no-name carrier, with very low budgets, and that's the result especially back in those days.

[@STHFGDBY]

Absolutely. I'm sick to death of seeing the results of Air Crashed being cause by oversights or not following safety protocol by the crew. What so called experienced Pilot tells the first officer to leave the engine anti ice switch to off in those conditions ? What part of that safety feature did he have trouble understanding, especially in those conditions. So in reality the Captain caused the crash and not the weather.

[@domaguayo7819]

I was in DCA that day. I was a first officer on a B-737 for Piedmont Airlines. We departed a couple of hours before Air Florida and learned about the crash when we arrived in ATL later that day. A week later I was back in DCA and was told that the aircraft was in a hangar on the other side of the field and could probably get to see it if I went over.. I hitched a ride from one of the ramp agents and got in the hangar without any difficulty which shows you how different things were back then. Also being in uniform helped. As I was standing behind one of the ropes that kept visitors away from the various parts a NTSB inspector came over to me and asked if I flew the 737. I responded in the affirmative and he walked me over to the forward cabin section and towards the cockpit. One of the things I first noticed was that the overhead bins looked like there was still ice in them. When we got to the cockpit I saw the windshields were all opaque and the control yokes were twisted as if acted upon by some tremendous force. The seats were also shifted from there tracks. The inspector then brought my attention to the overhead panel and pointed to the two engine ant-ice switches. They were in the off position and he said that this is where they were focusing their attention. The day of the crash when we departed DCA the snow was coming down pretty good and we were de-ice with type-1 fluid which was the standard at the time. There were no Hold Over Times(HOT) back then and your decision to depart was based on judgement that was derived from experience. The captains I flew with back then had years of experience in those conditions and also had a pretty good idea as to when it was time to return to the gate for more de-icing. It’s a heart break to think that if just one of them had fire walled the thrust levers they might have pulled out of it.

[@Marcg-b4n]

Wow! That's amazing! Thank you for sharing.

[@nemesisxrox6773]

... yes - appreciate the memory share.

[@PJ-si2po]

Idid not know the expression (Fire wallet the thrust), I think I know what you mean now Thanks for sharing, it surely brings memory for you as a pilot , as a passenger construction worker I flew In the north for for more than 35 rears, at some times we had rock & roll flights and carry, I flew a lot in 737

[@publicmail2]

Lenny Skutnik was a true hero, while everybody including rescue teams looked on trying to help, he jumped in and may have saved a woman's life, she was temp blinded by JetA, see video of him. He received an award from President Reagan.

[@MentourPilot]

Excellent.

[@krugerfuchs]

Roger Olian too

[@trekker105]

He also got invited to the State of the Union address that year. In fact, any member of the public invited because of some notable thing they did is sometimes informally referred to as a Skutnik because of this.

[@robertgotschall1246]

I was watching live when he jumped into the water. Maybe the bravest thing I ever saw.

[@emeraldqueen1994]

An award that was well deserved!

[@JoshDennyAltAccount]

Can’t imagine anything worse than knowing you’re in danger and knowing you can do something to avoid it but not being able too because of the chain of command and having to defer to the pilot/captain

[@Buckeystown]

I remember getting out of work early because of the snow and hearing the news. I thought of the times I sat on the 14th St Bridge watching planes coming in for a landing that looked like they were heading straight for us. I got home and watched the casualty list and new one of the guys on the flight as he was a former co-worker. His engineering team was going to Florida and they instituted a rule to prevent an entire team from flying on the same flight. My father also knew someone that died. This was a traumatic crash for a lot of us in the region.

[@brianwest2775]

This one made me feel how vulnerable we are as passengers. We can only trust that the crews are acting properly and responsibly. In this one there were so many failures, so many times that they could have aborted but the captain decides that it's worth the risk to continue. We don't even know the risk, let alone have any voice in whether it's worth the risk to continue take off.

[@AdjustYourFocus]

Yes ditto from me.

[@RCAvhstape]

Yes, once they close that hatch your fate is out of your hands.

[@ludiprice]

This is why I'm a nervous flyer. It's the lack of control I have over my fate :p

[@dorijoe]

There must be more cocky captains flying out there right now. Just based on the proportion of cocky people in any demographics.

[@Cbd_7ohm]

Not just the crews. You have to trust the executives are spending money to do what they're supposed to instead of giving it to themselves.

[@sonnyburnett8725]

Our instructor back in the 80’s on the 737 told us, never hit the ground without putting the thrust levers to the firewall. He said if this crew had done that even in the last few seconds it would have allowed the airplane to clear the second bridge.

[@wcate8301]

Larry, with his "detonation fixation" inherited from his piston pounder days, would never have let those EPR limits be exceeded. "Cook the engines if you have to, and live to fly another day." was not in his reflex repertoire.

[@lightningshy5287]

This particular accident is what initially got me into Aviation disaster investigations. It’s really a saddening incident, especially with the Black box audio being very haunting to listen to 😢

[@Jwellsuhhuh]

bro the audio sounds like fnaf lol

[@lost4468yt]

Fuckin Larrys

[@TheGodParticle]

You do a tough job, there's not many people that can handle that line of work due to the low survival rate. Your a good man. Cheers

[@kennethlee4894]

Lightening, did you ever see the video of the rescue? Amazing isn't it?

[@kay9549]

The question is why did they not switch on the de icing mode so the engines would not be ingesting ❄.

[@1thejet]

The actual footage of this is so sad to watch. Before rescue teams arrived many others were helping to get those souls out of the water. I was Air Force at the time. Watched it unfold on the AFN Network in Germany. I always felt as though the Co-Pilot wanted to abort. Judging from his remarks during the takeoff roll. I truly enjoy your videos. Thanks for another masterpiece.

[@takingthescenicroute1610]

Sadly CRM was not emphasized as heavily back then as it is now.

[@1thejet]

@@takingthescenicroute1610 You couldn't be more correct.

[@keenanhenry95]

Wow, there were sooo many more details that led up to this accident that I never heard about before like the P2 sensor. Thanks for the valuable information Mentour!

[@MichaelBrehmer]

I was driving on the outbound 14th Street bridge at the time of the crash. We had CB’s back then and were following what was known in real time. Still haunting to this day.

[@AnikaBren]

I like when you cover cases that were discussed when I took flight school in the 80s. In this one, like the others, you have more information and deeper coverage than our instructor. It was one of the many cases where the instructor pointed out that the first officer (then co pilot) had spoken up about things they had seen wrong but were over ridden by the captain.

[@andyhill242]

I have seen a few videos about this incident but this, unsurprisingly, the most detailed and insightful.

[@MentourPilot]

Glad to hear that you think so. 🙂

[@jekanyika]

I've seen the mayday episode on this crash but this was better.

[@billbeyatte]

Tragic. I was living nearby. This video was not just a KZbin piece. It was an excellently produced Documentary

[@segredosdotiosam9989]

It was?

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@johndifrancisco3642]

That simulation at the end helped me realize just how fast things can happen, even though they had the time beforehand. What a horrible way to go.

[@wrayday7149]

It's amazing how many times life throws you hints that you are about to make a horrible mistake and those warnings go unheeded.

[@abhineshsingh5507]

This man knows everything about aviation. I highly appreciate the way he prioritize safety and knowledge share above everything. I love watching this channel it's better than any other aviation channel.. great work...👌👌👌

[@MentourPilot]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@phobos2077_]

Yep, of all the aviation channels this one is the best by far. In a league of it's own due to the depth of knowledge as well as the personality of the pilot.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

To be fair, 'blancolirio's' channel is very good too, very comparable in attention to detail.

[@trueriver1950]

And it is so reassuring that he teaches this stuff to flight crew as part of his day job with a small but well known European airline.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

@@trueriver1950 Not that small actually !

[@johnhupp8444]

Several months after this accident I traveled to Washington DC on my senior trip. Our bus crossed the 14th street bridge and I remember seeing damage to the bridge railing along with paint from the plane.

[@bobhagopian888]

I watch Air Crash Investigations documentaries on the Smithsonian Channel regularly. I learn so much more detail from your videos than any other program reveals on these accidents. Thank you for your great work. Also of note is the heroic actions of the Park Service helicopter crew, especially the airmanship of the pilot who demonstrated great skills and courage. May God rest the souls of everyone who died that day.

[@ninedaysjane2466]

Thank you for recognizing the heroism of the Park Service crew. They put themselves in incredible danger to save the passengers.

[@stevebrazius1630]

Your superb video enlightened me on details I have wondered about since that day. I was a passenger on the simultaneous DC Metro derailment. It was surreal. After eventually making it to safety, I did not immediately know about the Air Florida 90 crash. I remember walking towards the Washington Monument in a daze. The snow was falling so heavily, traffic clogged, no noise except lots of sirens. The flashing blue and red lights from every direction were making the low clouds eerily glow. I don't even remember how I got home to Arlington VA nor how long it took. That day as well as a couple of events (missing being a suicide bomber victim by 30 seconds, surviving cancer 3 times and more) changed me for the better. I live every day with gratitude, empathy, an open heart and mind.

[@flapjackson6077]

I lived in the DC area when that crash occurred. A neighbor of ours was on that flight, and was killed. I’ve known the cause for years, but it was fascinating and disturbing to see all the factors that led to the crash. The simulation was tough to watch, but very illuminating. Excellent video, as always!

[@harveylgordonusa]

My now 30 yr old childhood best friend lost both his parents on this "finally retiring" trip. Sad.

[@bcad4066]

How could your 30 yr old friend have lost his parents on this flight? It happened nine years before he would have been born.

[@the406seadonkey6]

@@bcad4066 I was asking the same thing in my head, but my assumption is that he meant to say "childhood best friend of 30 years".

[@blondy2061h]

@@the406seadonkey6 it's still a super confusing time line because this happened 39 years ago. A retirement trip implies that the parents were around 65 on the trip in '81. That means they were born in the 1920s. That would make the best friend be born in the 1950s. If they were childhood friends and are still friends today they'd be friends since say 1970 which puts this friendship at around 50 years old. I realize I'm working off a ton of assumptions and lose math to get here, but something is weird with the timeline.

[@the406seadonkey6]

@@blondy2061h All good. No need to overthink what other people say. I hope you have a good week/month/year.

[@hpasquale83]

@@blondy2061h “Finally retiring,” is referencing death without saying so, candidly. If you’re THAT confused by basic grammar and simple analogies, perhaps, it’s wise to keep unwarranted comments to yourself.

[@ellenquinlin1824]

This was so very heartbreaking. I was in my twenties, living in Maryland and working in DC at the time. That morning, I made a decision not to go into work that day. It wasn’t just the snow. I just had a really bad feeling about the day. I’m so glad that I didn’t. Not only was there the Air Florida crash but our Metro system also crashed that day. Such a horrific day in the DC/MD/VA area. May they all Rest In Peace.

[@Indarow]

The second I heard the discussion regarding de-icing their aircraft using the exhaust from the dc-9 I threw out my thoughts regarding the de-ice crew switching up their composition. For one, the exhaust blast is going to strip away any de-icing that was put on to the aircraft, only increasing the chance of a compromised airfoil profile. Secondly, I’m a snowmaker for a major ski resort, have been for the last 7 years. I work with snow and ice for a living, so I know how it reacts in differing conditions. Hot exhaust also contains water vapors, the second those vapors are exposed to the elements, they’re GOING to freeze. Anybody who has a basic understanding of aerodynamics should know how essential keeping the intended airfoil is for proper lift. This captain set his plane up for disaster.

[@CC-xn5xi]

Smart observations.

[@WendelltheSongwriter]

Cockpit management is SO much more shared now. I always thought the saddest thing was that they still had plenty of power they just had to throw the throttles to the nut. I was actually on the banks of the river that day, saw the whole rescue, saw Lenny Skutnick jump in... Incredible

[@cryogeneric]

True. I don't remember where I read or heard about that, but in the simulator it was determined that if the pilots had just applied max power they would have overcome the stall and made it out safely. In many ways; however, their mistakes that day has likely saved countless others as so much has been learned from it.

[@Norbrookc]

I was actually living in DC when this happened, stationed at Walter Reed. What I remember about that day was the snow and the sudden announcement that a mass casualty event had occurred, and for the hospital to prepare for incoming. Unfortunately, it wasn't necessary.

[@jules4Him]

Nice job on this. It brought back a lot of memories. I worked in Personnel for Air Sunshine in Key West until Air Florida bought them in 1978. I didn't want to move to Miami so went out west to work on a commercial rating. But I remember that there was a lot of competition merging these two groups of pilots and Larry had been flying DC-3's and Convair 440's. It was a big transition to DC9's and 737's. I think Roger came straight from AF F-15's. I know that these guys had very few take offs and landings in snow/ice conditions at the time of this accident. There is no question that Florida flying and northern flying in those conditions is night and day and even with procedures in place, the learning curve is huge. The flight attendant who was rescued was the daughter of the Chief F/A at Air Sunshine and I remembered her. I was watching it live on the news and was screaming at the tv until they got her and the others out. This accident brought about a lot of safety changes and my hubby (FAA) said it was one of the ones very frequently referred to around the office. We have come a long way in 40 years.

[@boatlover1875]

I'll never forget that day. I was a student at the nearby University of Maryland. We were in our room between class and dinner when this happened. There was also a fatal crash on the DC Metro subway system about the same time.